New sails!

[Amgine]

Well, I payed the first installment on a new wardrobe, and we spent an hour today measuring everything in sight. We measured stuff I have no clue how it could possibly be used to calculate sail shape, and all the usual suspects, and a couple things for shits and grins.

For such a small boat, the winter costs are gonna kill me.

But I'm looking forward to all new sails for the first time in my sailing life. New styles of sails, too - a fully battened main for starters. No, I'm not sure it's the best cruising choice, but has some advantages I'm looking forward to trying out and some drawbacks I'm eyeing nervously. The high-clewed 135% clearly has the sailmaker chewing his whiskers in frustration; I suppose it's silly to get a genoa that isn't flat-out speed oriented, but I like to see under sails I expect may be up a lot on downwind legs. The 100% is cautious, rugged, boring.

And after these are delivered, I'm ordering an assym spinny that I've promised him I won't ask for anything special on, except that it be designed for a singlehander who tends to fly such longer than it's designed for...

[AdriftAtSea]

For such a small boat, the winter costs are gonna kill me.

Simple solution, go someplace there is no winter.

[Navyvet]

  Got love Florida And Gratz on the new sails may they last as long as you need them too.

[Auspicious]

I think you'll really enjoy the full batten main. With the extra roach (you did get a nice fat roach, right?) you'll reef earlier but ultimately sail both faster and more comfortably.

Look up when you tack to make sure the roach isn't hung up on the backstay.

[Amgine]

::grin:: Well, I didn't request a big roachy shape, but it's coming from Quantum so I'm sort of expecting it. I just hope it isn't like one of my marina mates whose main laps the backstay and has developed a nice black line where it hits it while tacking.

The most interesting thing for me was talking with the guy who measured the boat about the inboard track. The Cape Dory 25D had an insanely optimistic inboard track, but placed too far forward to actually be of any use except, possibly, with a deck-sweeping 100% or smaller - otherwise pretty much zero foot control. He thought the 100% might just be able to take advantage of it, if it's cut nearly board flat for absolute upwind work.

I don't think that's what they plan on doing, but we'll be talking about that sometime rsn.

For now I'm just nervously dancing from one foot to the other in anticipation, absolutely no patience or pretense this was calm, cool, collected decision. It's emotional as heck, almost as much as when I first put money on the boat.

[Oldrig]

You'll love your new sails.

I didn't order a full-battened main when I had mine made--I was afraid that backstay on my 25D might interfere with tacking. If I had it to do over, I probably would go with full battens.

As for that inside track, I use for my storm/working jib (run the sheets inside the first stay and outside the other two), and it seems to work well. but for my genny (130%), I obviously use the outside track.

The 25D isn't the fastest boat around, but you'll be sailing when everybody else has run for cover.

--Joe

[Godot]

Interesting.  Being the non performance oriented sailor I am (I thought my boat was fast until I was rudely disabused of that notion by some racers), I have actually considered going battenless with a somewhat hollow roach.  I figured it would be easier to deal with, although I'm certain it would affect the performance.

My sails are in good shape at the moment, so I don't need to make this decision now.

[CharlieJ]

I had Tehani's  sails made batten less with a slightly hollow leach. I also had battenless sails on my Cross 35 Tri.  I' ve never  had any regrets on either boat. They set well and generate all the drive we could ask for.

We cruised the tri from Florida to the Chesapeake, then back down and thru the keys then over to here in Texas.

We've taken Tehani from Texas to Florida and return twice, including several days offshore. I've NEVER regretted having battenless sails, but I have in the past gotten really screwed up with battens.

Many serious cruising people ( including the Pardeys) cruise with battenless sails.


Good luck  with your full battens, but personally I don't think that's the best setup for a cruising boat and I would never choose that option.

[maxiSwede]

@Charlie

Two years ago when I ordered a new set of sails for Röde Orm, I started to discuss a battenless main with the sailmaker (after I read the Pardeys advice in the matter)  The guy looked at me as if I just landed from Mars... So after some talking I bought a traditional one with short battens.

You prefer the battenless?  Does it work fine to windward?

Best//Magnus

[CharlieJ]

You judge

We had a long discussion with Jeff at SailRite over how we were planning to use the boat, and what we wanted the sails to do.

They are 6.5 oz Contender super cruise cloth, triple stitched.

In the first pic, we were JUST under wind speeds to reef. Actually at the time the shot was taken we probably SHOULD have had a reef in.

The jib is our working jib which we use most of the time. It has a reef point built in to reef it to close to storm jib size.  Around here the working jib is our go to sail. We carry a genoa for use over in the light air of the east coast and Florida

[Tim]

Charlie, do you have a pic of where the reef point is on your jib? Or one of it reefed?

[CharlieJ]

not one of it reefed, but you can see the points in this shot

[Tim]

Thanks, LOL It's not like I haven't seen that shot one hundred times, I mean Duh!

[Grime]

There goes my dinghy being towed out the bay. Hi Charlie

Good thread.

[Amgine]

I've considered battenless sails; for that matter I've had 'em too on other boats. My personal opinion is either battenless or fully-battened is best; those short battens always end up interfering with shape and becoming a maintenance hassle.

The benefits of fully-battened sails are ease of reefing, quieter, and sail shape control/longevity. And of course the extra sail area will be a benefit in light going, even though I'm not performance oriented. My expectation is the main will be easier to live with on a full-time basis, but will probably not last as long as a headboard-less and battenless sail. For me the trade off is worth it.

[CharlieJ]

and there's the bottom line. If the trade off is worth it to you, then  it's worth it. And I totally agree on the short battens. I've had sailmakers tell me repairing batten pockets is the bread and butter of the business. I know Laura has repaired them often.

[AdriftAtSea]

Just be careful, if your boat wasn't designed with this type of sail in mind, it may lead to some sail balance problems, like lee helm, as this type of sail will generally shift the center of effort a bit forward. 

Interesting.  Being the non performance oriented sailor I am (I thought my boat was fast until I was rudely disabused of that notion by some racers), I have actually considered going battenless with a somewhat hollow roach.  I figured it would be easier to deal with, although I'm certain it would affect the performance.

My sails are in good shape at the moment, so I don't need to make this decision now.

[CharlieJ]

as could going to a full batten sail-shifting COE aft a bit. In practice, we figure we lost about 3 sq feet of area, and our 1961, CCA era hull form doesn't seem to notice at all. She still steers with finger tip on the tiller, even with the rail down. Of course that's with the WJ- flying a 150 Genoa would change things a lot on helm balance.

[Oldrig]

Amgine:

Here's another possibility:

A North Sails representative, who addressed yesterday's winter meeting of the Cape Dory Association's Eastern Fleet, suggested that boats like Cape Dorys might want to consider a mainsail with full battens in the top two positions and traditional leech-only battens in the bottom slots.

That would give better shape to the top (better control of twisting), while letting you reef easily. Also, as he pointed out, full battens add weight to the sail and can stick when raising or lowering--unless you install a ballbearing-car system (lots of money!).

Anyway, it's something to consider.

I certainly don't regret having gone with traditional battens in my new main.

--Joe

[maxiSwede]

Good thread!

I am still curious as to a battenless main. Unfortunately I don't know of anyone in 'my part of the world' who's got one...   

Before buying one (which would be after 25000 miles or so from now) I would really want to sail an hour or two on a vessel that is flying one.

As to a working jib with a reef point, I think it's a great idea... and I 've got one. That said, I've never yet in 5000 miles had to reef it. Used my storm jib twice in the same time span. The reefed WJ is still about twice the size of a storm jib on my boat.