catchy title huh?
i was going to start a thread when we had wifi...but who knows when that will be so im posting from my kindle. sorryfor misspellings lck of smileys and short posts.
so far we are in part one...the epic journey of the wooly bah bah and the rivers of peril.
our plan is to head south from watts bar lake in tennessee on the tennessee river...turn left on the tenn-tom another left in mobile...a hop skip and ajump across the gulf and to the keys
we have 6 months.....and this is sort of a "will we really like the cruisng life" discovery cruise.
currently we are anchored in foscue creek in demopolis alabama. we have 212 miles to mobile...we have gone 575 miles locked through at least 13 dams and run aground 8 times..
just a note to anyone planning a tenn-tom trip...the army corps of engeners does not mark their charts with depth only channels....and 4.5 is considered deep draft. we are in power boat country. anchorages have been tough because what most trawlers can get into we run aground. the navigation channels are fine and if we were going from marina to marina i dont think we wuld have any issuse...but thats not our style.
I came down the TennTom this spring in a Cheoy Lee 31 ketch. My wife joined me at Mobile, and we sailed to Key West and then up the coast to Maine. It was a great trip!
I didn't run aground any, but I had a 4' draft and flood water. My biggest problem was logs and trash in the river.
Be sure and bring plenty of fuel for the lower part of the waterway. Not many places to fill up.
Good luck, and be sure and say hello at the Grand Mariner marina at Dog River, Al. Great place to stay for a while, just south of Mobile.
Chuck Jones
Well we shouldnt be having any more problems with shallows....we are just past the confluence of black warrior and tenn-tom....and with all the rain that passed through and the two rivers joining we are 9 feet high now.
we watched the water raise last night....kinda like tide coming in.
interesting watching trees float down river ;D
We are planning to head out in the am, after a good re-provision today.
we have 150 mile range, which should get us to bobbys....and then out...hopefully not to much longer!
Bobbies is only about 95 miles, and with the extra current, you should save fuel. You'll be pushing it a little from there, to get to Dog River for fuel, though. Watch out for the channels when you get close to Mobile. Can be a little confusing.
Good Luck
we are anchored in big lizard creek...mile mrker 20
morgan and i talked about it and we are goin to move to the south side of 12 mile islnd tomorrow...mile 7...and rest before heading out into the bay.
we plan to go to fairhope on the eastern shore and reprovision...then onto pirates cove!
as soon as we cleared the last lock and got to sea level...there was an alligator.sunning itself on shore....ill try to post a pic wen we have wifi.
lower warrior was better for anchorages and we havent run aground again.
more later
We just missed. I'm in Pascagoula. As at Pirates Cove on Friday. Buck a foot on the slip. Great anchorage inside the bayou (Roberts)
Look up Rick Hall while there. Can't miss him- full white Santa beard. Has two boats there, both junk rigged. Tell him Charlie on Tehani said hello.
Weather permitting I'm leave here bound for Gulfport tomorrow.
Fair winds
Update-
Weather isn't permitting!! 20 NW, gusting 30. Chance of rain and it's durned chilly. Supposed to be much improved tomorrow.
After Pirates Cove, plan to stop in Fort Walton Beach. Free dock, free pumpout. When you tie up just call the posted number and let them know you are there. The police patrol the area during the night.
Dock is between red 6 and 8 on the north shore, just before the bridge. There are two large white signs there too. You should carry around 10 feet of water going in and the first slip on the west side has 9 feet ( or did- the heavy north wind may reduce that)
A Publix and a liquor store three blocks away to the right. Lot's of good restaurants there.
i kinda thought we would miss when i read that you werein pirates cove on the 2nd....maybe next time!
thanks for the fort walton heads up...
it is downright cold....but at least they revised the low tonight to 30 rather than high 20s.....may only be aa degree or two but that 3 doesnt make me feel as bad as that 2.
there is asmall craft advisory on mobil bay till 5.
anyone use active captian?
Quote from: JWalker on December 07, 2011, 10:05:38 AM
anyone use active captian?
Occasionally.. Good site, but getting busy. Too busy to use much on the Iphone which is how I most frequently get online.
Quote from: JWalker on December 07, 2011, 10:05:38 AM
anyone use active captian?
I've looked into it a few times and, well, there's just "something" about it that does not suit me. This is a personal thing, and I fully acknowledge it does not apply to everyone...or maybe anyone else. But, but for my part, it SEEMS to me to seek putting the responsibility external - outside MY boat, on someone ELSE's shoulders. It's a philosophical thing; I've been accused of being a purist.
Let's just say that I oppose, for me, 'computerized' navigation tools while underway. I use them EXTENSIVELY for planning. For whatever reason, though, AC is one I just don't seem to gravitate to using. Underway, not really KISS.
That said, the product is much touted on various forums, and the founder is active on several as well. You have to trust the data, as entered by 'cruisers' (quite a varied lot, :) ), and this is no different than using Salty Southeast, Local Notices to Mariners or any other 'guide.'
If you are an 'active' user or try it out, a good, well tested review from a vessel underway would be a good addition to sailfar. IMO.
most of the trawlers we encountered had a stack of cruising guides and constantly spoke of active captian.
in theory i like the idea....an interactive guide book where you can post and read and have opinions....
it also seems to be free for theonline version.....there is a 50 dollar chart plotting software called polar navy that inegrates the active captain into it and somehow saves it for offline use....that *seems* handy.
i cant access it from my kindle...heck i can barley read sailfar!
Quote from: JWalker on December 07, 2011, 10:39:06 AM
most of the trawlers we encountered had a stack of cruising guides and constantly spoke of active captian.
Consider the source. ;D ;D ;D
There's a lot to like about Active Captain, especially if you are addicted to mobile devices and always travel within wireless range.
I, for one, do not own a so-called smart phone (just a plain old mobile, or "cell" phone).
The owner of Active Captain is an active self-promoter, which is a good thing for an entrepreneur--and I wish him the best of luck in his endeavor. Having feedback from actual skippers makes his product really appealing and useful.
However, I would not stop stocking cruising guides* and keeping paper charts on board.
--Joe
*NOTE: Disclosure: I make much of my pittance of a living as a freelancer by editing and writing for cruising guides, so I'm not entirely unbiased. But I really am impressed with Active Captain, which I do sometimes look at on my old desk-bound computer.
we are currently anchored in hogstown bayou...big thanks to bruce and nancy for hosting us for two days and drivng us around to reprovision and to west....and for some great food!
fort walton beach was great...we anchored just off the public docks and dingied in...publix and liquor store 2 blocks to starboard ....west mrine 1.2 miles away where we replaced our dingy painter...and chinese and thia resturaunts closeby. neat place.
weve hd good sailing since we left mobile bay...winds have been favorable....if not strong.
dolphins are everywhere which i pretty neat....morgan is especially enjoying that.
ill try to post som pics next time we have wifi....we got wifi in fortwalton but it was real spotty and i gve up trying to post.
otherwise having a fantastic time....more to come.
we are now tied up to the public warf in apalachicola.
we pushed a bit to get here but we have been watchin this weather window open up and it look like we will cross the gulf starting thursday am.
forcast is calling for seas less than 1 foot...winds 5 to 10.
we are headin to crystal river to play with the mantees!
its 135 miles from the warf, out gubmint cut (government) and over to crystal river so we are going to head out early and should arive in daylight.
Here's wishing you a safe and pleasant crossing, Jonnie, Morgan, & Max! What a great way to put the old year behind you and start the New Year in the warm waters of south Florida. Nancy and I are looking forward to reading about your Gulf Crossing experience as soon as you get wifi in Crystal River. Enjoy the ride!
found a wifi signal at the warf
pics:
another
can you tell i like sunsets?
I like beaches too....this is fort mcree
more fort mccree
idealic
Ah as the locals call it- Mosquito Cove. And Sand Island.
I've been in there many times. Great place.
The weather is not cooperating.
We headed out wednesday morning to anchor at shipping cove on the southwest end of dog island.
had a nice sail and got into the anchorage around three...did a few light maintenance projects and then checked the weather.
it was supposed to be seas 1-2 foot thursday, less than 1 foot thursday night, and 2 feet friday.
the new weather report said one to two foot through the afternoon and then building to 2-3 foot after midnight.
We have been told that this section of the gulf is very rough because of the shallowness, and that 2 to 3 foot seas were miserable. But hey...how bad can it be?
So morgan and I talk it over and figure we can be most of the way to steinhatchi by then...and 2-3 foot seas just dont sound that bad so we decide to poke our nose out and see if we can make a run for it....with full intention that we can turn back if it sucked.
it sucked.
oh my goodness did it suck. :-X
the 3 foot waves were there, and the frequency and steepness were awesome!
we were pounding into every wave...they just slammed into the hull, no riding up and over....just slam.
So we sailed up and around dog island and back into the lee by tysons harbor on the northeast side and put the hook down and checked the weather.
this time the weather said that the 2-3 would last through the night and that friday sat and most of sunday would be 1-2.
So we head to bed and decide we will wait for the seas to calm themselves and head out after a rest day.
Well after a nice rest day we check the weather...and friday is perfect....but sat isnt looking so good and sunday is out.
So we have a choice.....20 miles back to apalachicola.....or do the bend.
We reason that it will be easier to find 12-24 hour weather windows than a nice 36-48...so we may actually make it faster by taking the long way.
So off we headed to St Marks, which is where we are now....neat little funky place.
tonight and tomorrow are supposed to be wind gusts up to 35 mph so we sprung for a transient slip at shields marina.
Its looking like wednesday will give us another day window to go to steinhatchi....and maybe thursday will let us get to cedar key we will see.
each of those legs is about 50 miles, so all day but we should be able to get in before dark.
Quote from: JWalker on January 02, 2012, 06:36:23 PM
The weather is not cooperating.
;D ;D ;D
Grog for working "with" it.
:D :D
Having just crossed in those same "2-3" foot seas, I understand. When your eyes are 5 feet off the water sitting in the cockpit and you can't see OVER the seas, they are NOT 2-3.. Those seas coming into Appalachicola or Dog Island are really weird. And we had the same stuff two years ago when we sailed south from there.
Oh- and those 5-10 knot winds? I averaged 5.5 for over 10 hours under just the working jib, broad off. I THINK they were a TAD stronger than 5-10.
thanks for the grog!
yeah we were supposed to have 10 knots of wind....had just the 100 headsail up doing 6 knots.
it was a muscular 10 knots.
Oh did I mention it was DARK?!?! ::)
more grog to you Charlie for doing that on your own. That had to suck.
Sailing friends
This guy flew in and rounded up into the mainsail....then slid down it and sort of soft crash landed onto the deck.
he rode with us for half an hour scanning the water until max became aware of his presence.
very thoughtful bird....left no birdie evidence.
Yep sometimes they are just looking for a free ride ;)
(http://sailfar.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10375/normal_Tomales_first_launch_006.jpg)
Nice trip report, keep it up!
Well we bent the bend.
got into tarpon springs last night, and moved down to clearwater beach today.
All in all it wasnt a bad way to make it around...I think it added 100 miles, but we got to split it up and there were no overnighters, and we had 1 foot seas each time we moved. (albeit we didnt always have wind)
st marks was a neat little place and we met some great cruising people there...we waited out the cold front.....OMG DOES THE FORCAST REALLY SAY 21?!?!?!? :o! Yes it does....lets head out! ::)
So at 21 degrees with frost all over the boat we motored out of st marks, and made it to steinhatchee..the frost finaly melted about 5 hours after we left....but, the seas were smooth....I think because it was frozen. I know I was. Not sure if that was the smartest thing to do....but we did it all the same. It was cold.....real cold.
Steinhatchee was interesting, we could have anchored but it was $0.50/foot and we got in in the dark and I didnt want to try to anchor in the blackness and was still cold. I never did warm up that day. Its a sportsmans fishing center, but the locals were polite and friendly, and the sea hag marina was funky...we liked it.
then we headed out of there to cedar key, and stoped the first night by the north key....that was cool...not real well protected but we had good weather, I dingied over to the island the next morning....then we moved into the main key of cedar key. We decided to wait a day and rest before heading to tarpon. Once in cedar key we anchored by the downtown marina, and right next to the no wake zone....we couldnt believe how inconsiderate the local boaters were. they buzzed right past us full bore as if aiming for us.....so we moved over to the island just off cedar key....behind a shoal....WAY out of the channel.....and STILL had a@#h013s buzz by the boat....less than 30 feet off!!!! if I had a potato canon I'da used it. So after being battered by wakes all day.....we left with no intention of ever stopping into the main key again....the outer anchorage was ok....but in and out....nothing more.
So we headed out to ancolate by tarpon.....light wind, dolphins danging in the bow wave....saw a bald eagle and 4 more idiots passed us on the way out and rocked us with their wake before we made if out of the channel. as we went I started seeing some odd looking things mixed with the crab pots.... finally saw one close before it disappeared....loggerhead turtles.
then more, and more...they were everywhere! Unfortunately they are really hard to get pictures of. The wind picked up and we motor sailed into the anchorage...got up the next morning....more friggin boat wakes.
So rather than rest today like we promised ourselves....up came the anchor....out came the sails and back out into the gulf we went....ahhhhh finally peace and quiet. We sailed down to the clearwater inlet and then back up a bit and tucked in where there is a no wake zone!
tomorrow we rest....after that who knows! ::)
Sunset at cedar key (after the boaters went home)
and three dolphins playing in the bow wave
Bald eagle
sunset still in the gulf before tarpon springs....about 12 miles out of ancloate
I have to say....we have a couple of cruising guides on board...but I REALLY like active captain.
it suits the way I like to find information....the guidebooks I read and they go in order and I have to kinda look at the charts to figgure out where they are talking about.
AC I can just look at the satellite image, and scan a whole large area....and then zoom in and read other peoples opinions
on anchorages and marinas ect. I've found a few free docks that werent in any of my guide books, and overall I really like the way it works.
Maybe it's just self-interest--and the fact that I do not own a "smart" phone--but I always keep a cruising guide onboard. Of course I work as an writer/editor for two different guides (won't mention 'em here to avoid conflict-of-interest). ;D
--Joe
Am enjoying your posts on the cruise. Great photos! Just clicked on your link and discovered your blog. Interesting to read about how the cold weather can adversely affect morale, and that this is a big factor in enjoying a cruise.
Learned a lot about the Big Bend area of Florida from your posts--and CJ's, too. Having those p*werboats passing close by and disturbing you with their wakes--would be hard to take. Seems like those ports would want to do things to welcome cruising sailboats, rather than drive them away. At any rate, it's good to know.
Looking forward to following your cruise.
Grog to you.
-Jim
thanks jim.
ok we may be at a turning point.
how gentlemen, do you recover from a massive anchor drag?
as this last cold front rolled in the winds kicked up to 40 mph. we held ok for two hoursand then the boat started bucking around pretty wildly....she managed to yank the bow anchor out and over the stern anchor we went. morgan was watching and saw as soon as it happened that we were moving. out we rushed and withou going into detail we were able to not smash into the down wnd docks. we headed back up and set two bow anchors....they held. had we been even 30 to 45 seconds slower it could have ended far worse.
now im terrified of dragging and hve lost faith in well set anchors. ive hardley slept since then. we have hd 15 to 20 knots of wind since and everytim there is a gust im awake looking out the portlites to see if we are dragging.
how do i mentaly overcome this?
at this point because of this insecurity we are no longer hvin fun. plus im exausted.
Anchor drag is a real drag on trying to sleep. I'm in a marina just north of you at Dunedin. There are a few boats anchored out from the marina and have been there for several months. They use the two anchor Bahamian Mooring system w/o problem. I think that's what you're describing by having two anchors off the bow.
Enjoy the Cold!
Bob ;)
PS There are a few free daytime slips here... come on over and get some rest.
Boy, those psychological hurdles can be the toughest ones to cross.
The first step I believe is to realize that while it may have been CLOSE, it was not a disaster. You and Morgan are safe, the boat is unhurt. Perhaps the biggest damage is merely to the ego, and we all have to survive those insults once in a while.
The plus side is that you saw a problem and reacted to it. Even if your second attempt failed, which it did not, you DID something; action is generally good.
So, perhaps a good a approach is to step back now an analyze what happened to minimize the chance it happens again. To that end, offer a few questions and thoughts. I'm not specifically asking these questions for you to answer here for us...just things I have thought about when I've drug an anchor (though I've never had to answer #1 because I don't anchor that way).
(1) Stern anchor? WHY?
There are some cases where it's called for, but those are relatively rare.
(2) What kind of anchor in what kind of bottom? I'm talking about the bow anchor here, which I assume is your primary.
(3) What kind of rode and how much? All chain, all nylon or hybrid? If hybrid, how much chain and nylon were actually out? What was the scope?
(4) What was the wind direction with regard to the boat orientation? (Here and 5 below is where I think anchoring bow and stern is a negative). Did the wind shift before you drug (probably....building winds usually do shift).
(5) What was the current and/or dominant wave direction with regard to the boat orientation? Did these change?
Some General Remarks:
On Bahamian Mooring...it is the term used for one specific kind of "anchoring two from the bow." If you lay to anchors from the bow, it is generally done by laying both approximately 60-ish degrees from each other (that angle being the one made by the two rodes) and both into the dominant wind or more ideallly, wind + waves/current.
Bahamian Mooring opens that angle up so that the two rodes make a 180 degree angle, or lie in a straight line with the boat in the middle. This is used when you expect a wind shift or current shift in lighter winds. In general, you are only hanging on one hook at a time, but WAY reduced chance of unsetting as the boat swings.
Why are both of these advantageous over the bow-stern method? Because they allow the boat to swing to her 'happiest' attitude in the wind/waves, but both limit swinging circle almost as effectively as anchoring bow-stern.
I've kept my boat on a Bahamian Moor for 18 months (several over 50 knot blows and fairly wicked tidal currents). I've also anchored her out in hurricane Irene using this same method, though I was not as good at getting the secondary set properly so IT drug (but the primary did not!!).
Sailing without faith in the anchoring system (of which the skipper is a part!!) is like driving a car with no brakes. :o
If it will help for a time to regain your confidence, set an anchor watch. Rather than waiting for the inevitable but unexpected 'change' that wakes you up from worried sleep, alternate being awake and asleep so that you guys regain some sense of "control" over the situation. It might seem counterintuitive, but being up for several two hour "shifts" during the night can result in better rest if the sleep you DO get is not tainted by fear and worry.
Good luck, and remember...this is part of "the journey," so 'technically,' it's part of the fun, too. ;) ;D Glad ya'll are safe.
Scope, lots of scope.
And heavy anchors and chain. One thing about scope- many people forget to include the distance from bow roller to water surface in water depth figuring. Tehani has 4 feet, so in ten feet of water, I figure 14 feet when deciding on how much rode. For that, I'd use at least 45 feet MINIMUM, but in an open anchorage I'd use 60 to 75 feet.
75 feet of chain takes me to the nylon by the way. Seldom get that much out. Tehani normally rides to a 22 pound Claw on 1/4 inch G4 chain.
In heavy weather, I set two in a VEE off the bow- at about 40-45 degrees. The Bahama moor is for anchoring in areas where the tide changes and you don't have room to swing. I seldom use it, even in the Bahamas. Off Alice Town Bimini, and in Nassau Harbor are two places I recall, because swinging room was limited.
Off Venice Beach was another- same reason.
By the way, I love Danforths, but I do not trust one to reset. I'd never go to bed with just a single Danforth on the bottom, unless I KNEW the current was going to stay constant. And then I'd probably not sleep well!
Another suggestion on the psychological/rest issue....
Couple of nights in a marina to (a) get some rest and (b) regroup in general.
Would that help?
Edit: Ooops, sorry, Bob...Your PS just registered in my brain. "Me too, Me too!"
Thanks for the replys!
We headed out of clearwater yesterday and across tampa bay, we are now in bradenton beach and I think tomorrow we will move to the buttonwood anchorage...it looks well protected and there is a dingy dock.
Sarasota has been a destination since we began because a friend I grew up with lives there and we want to see him ect.
A few days rest absolutly is what we need.
anchor specs:
Primary fortress fx11 on 50 feet of 5/16" chain and 150 1/2" line
Secondary 14 lb delta on 25 feet 1/4" chain and 75 feet if 3/8" line
We have had the issue of the fortress/danforth style not reseting with a current shift, so that is why we had the stern anchor out.
I've been hesitant to put out two bow anchors because I have been worried about the lines tangling up and also about the line getting wraped around the fin keel. This is why I had a stern anchor out.
I had 7:1 scope out on the primary, and I had loosened the stern off a bit when the wind picked up, so she could lie to the wind/waves.
34 knots of wind was NOT in the forcast, they said there were some thunder storms comming and maybe 25 knots.
After the blow I checked wund.com and shortley before it began they had issued a notice about the high winds...but we had checked the weather an hour before they posted the notice, so we missed it.
So far I am not happy with the fortress anchor.
The Delta is a great anchor....but not as big as I would like it. I have been looking for a 22# delta, but not found one im my price range.
Swinging on one anchor....is this safe in a current shifting area? I see a number of boats doing it.....but I'm already loosing sleep! (no I would not just swing on the fortress.
Now I do have to keep in mind that the anchor held for two hours.
it was when the boat started sailing around really bad that it pulled loose.
I didnt have the riding sail up because of the high winds.
I am in a high freeboard boat with fin keel....so there is alot of windage up to and not a lot of waterage down below.
(this is not our ideal forever boat, its the one we had when we got the chance to take 6 months)
The more I have thought about it, I'm not happy with the fortress...but I really think the sailing around is what worked it free.
Had I put both anchors out front at the beggining of the blow I do not think we would have drug....
In fact the next night we stopped in a fairly open roadsted anchorage with alot of liveaboards in it, and put two out off the front, the wind was forecast to veer from west to North west.....around midnight. I stayed up....the wind shift violently came at 11....and I tried everything. I put more rode out, took rode in, but the riding sail up, took it down....pushed the boom over, pushed it back over off the other side, put the riding sail back up.....I mean I did EVERYTHING I could think of.....we werent sailing bad, and in fact there were two other boats in the line we were in that were sailing MUCH worse than we were. Finally at 1:30 I decided that I had literally done EVERYTHING I could....and I went to bed. Very rolly night on its own...but with the visions of dragging I didnt sleep good at all. I did make sure there was nothing expensive downwind.
When we got up the next am....we hadent moved.
Actually I wrote a post for sailfar while I was doing all of that....I have it saved I'll post it.
Also if any moderator thinks that this particular section of the trip log would be a good standalone topic for the masses, feel free to split it off.
Hmmm....there is a 32# delta on craigslist..... :-\
I was able to hook into a wifi connection....all the dramatic details are in a writeup on the blog in the sig tag.
I don't know if I should post the text here, just because it is quite lengthy. ::)
Good tactic " I made sure there was nothing expensive downwind" ;D
Quote from: JWalker on January 14, 2012, 02:31:24 PM
Swinging on one anchor....is this safe in a current shifting area? I see a number of boats doing it.....but I'm already loosing sleep! (no I would not just swing on the fortress.
Hmmm...thinking about the rest, but for now, I wanted to comment on this one bit.
Swinging on one anchor safe?
Depends. On a lot of things.
It DOES depend what kind of anchor it is....coupled very strongly to the bottom.
With the wind and current shifts you are expecting, two just seems like better "insurance" to me. Not saying one won't do the trick, but...
What is your peace of mind (and good night's sleep) worth? Are they worth the little bit of extra work to laying a second anchor?
Listen to your gut, your instincts. If it does not "feel" right to you lay only one anchor, don't do it. It does not matter if one could hold just fine...YOU have doubts, and you are the skipper of your boat.
A big part of seamanship is, in my opinion, exercising the caution that your gut tells you to exercise, no matter what everyone else is doing.
I agree Capt Smollett, I don't think I like the idea....that whole anchor resetting thing with current.
The winds are slackening off, Morgan and I are going to move farther out in the anchorage where we are (deeper)
and rest another day. We will probly try to move to buttonwood tomorrow and hopefully stay there for a while.
Quote from: JWalker on January 14, 2012, 02:31:24 PM
Thanks for the replys!
We headed out of clearwater yesterday and across tampa bay, we are now in bradenton beach and I think tomorrow we will move to the buttonwood anchorage...it looks well protected and there is a dingy dock.
Bradenton Beach also has a dinghy dock, Ice a block away, and free trolley service to use for groceries. Also has a really neat restaurant about 4 blocks north of the dock. Run by a Greek couple, called "the Gathering Place" One of my favorite stops.
I have a friend who says-"the anchor weight to use is five pounds lighter than you can lift"
Personally, I think that Delta is much too light, by at least half. And I don't care much for the Fortress either.
As to the sailing at anchor- Tehani commonly hunts through around 75 degrees in stronger winds, and will DEFINITELY lay to the current rather than the wind- fact of life for her.
I've used that 22 pound Claw (Bruce style) for all of the anchoring on Tehani ever since the boat was launched. It's held through some pretty horrendous stuff, and I'd trust it anywhere on our eastern seaboard, except in grass, which is why I carried the Northill. But in two and a half year and right at 7000 miles we only had one place where it flat would not set. That was off Frazer-Hog Key in the Berry Island group, Bahamas. That was because the bottom was so scoured that it was like a cement floor. We picked up a mooring.
Oh- and somewhere in this thread the question was mentioned - "how do you sleep when all this is going on?"
Answer is- I don't. I've sat up all night, or sat dozing, and watching land marks, all night long on more than one occasion- Part of the long term cruising lifestyle.
the delta I got more as a lunch hook, the fortress was my plan for primary.
Not happy with it.
I do have a 20# fluke with slip ring on board.....maybe I should switch the fortress off for that one.
Charlie, glad I'm not the only one who doesnt sleep.
Quote from: JWalker on January 14, 2012, 04:29:32 PM
Charlie, glad I'm not the only one who doesnt sleep.
With two crew aboard, an anchor watch (taking turns sleeping) can get you SOME sleep.
The key is to know things are being watched so you get some rest.
Quote from: JWalker on January 14, 2012, 04:29:32 PM
I do have a 20# fluke with slip ring on board.....maybe I should switch the fortress off for that one.
Charlie, glad I'm not the only one who doesnt sleep.
If it were me, I'd take that slip ring anchor and throw it overboard!!! Hate them- I've had them reverse and pull out , on a fishing boat. If I was forced to use one, I'd wire the slip ring to the top, so it could not slide.
Another thing I hate is that vinyl coated chain. I've seen that stuff so corroded you could pull it apart by hand, yet it looked perfect from the outside.
And I haven't sat up all that often- I figure to anchor for storm, when I first set the hook. NOT at 0200. So I lean towards heavier ground tackle and good stout chain. I never use less than a boat length of that, and I'd be happier with 100 feet rather than the 75 I have.
One point not mentioned is carrying different types of anchors- Danforths are wonderful,but not always the thing. When I cruised my Cross 35 tri, I had two- both with 50 feet of chain. My primary anchor was a 35 pound CQR and 150 feet of chain. Have had places where the plow wouldn't set, but the Danforths would.
Both had nylon at the end of the chain of course ;D
This spring and summer my wife and I cruised 3500 miles in our Cheoy Lee 31 Ketch. We used a $100.00 33#Lewmar Claw anchor with 35' of 3/8" chain as primary anchor. This anchor always set with little trouble, and held in wind and current changes, even though our boat was very bad about swinging at anchor. For the money; I don't think the claw can be beat. However, you had better be in good shape to lift that much anchor and chain in deep water, with out a winch. We normally had to "break out" the anchor using power.
Do you guys reset your anchor every day? Or just if the forecast says there will be a windshift....
For instance, if I go into an anchorage with the intent of staying a week.....
I put out two bow anchors 45-60 degrees apart....so I can swing with a reversing current, and have two anchors into the wind....Do I need to check each day to make sure that holds true...and if a wind shift is predicted do I put the anchors and reset?
shed some light on the procedures you use.
Flake out chain along the starboard deck, laying out as much as I think I'll need, plus a bit, Take a look over the anchorage, work the boat in to where I want it, slow, put the boat into reverse (bringing the dingy painter in first), drop the anchor and let it sit as I slowly pay out chain, lightly snubbing as the boat begins to move astern.
When most of the rode has run, I snub hard, then release the rest, head aft and throttle up hard, watching some point ashore to see if the sternway stops.
Take it out of gear and clear up stuff in the cockpit, like doing the log, putting away GPS, etc. After that, I go forward, put on the snubber and settle in. If I feel it needed, I run out bit of rode, before adding the snubber.
Then I open a beer ;)
Usually I only set the primary. It's rare when I set a second anchor.
And if I've been anchored for a day, no I usually don't do anything else.
Quote from: JWalker on January 14, 2012, 06:16:17 PM
Do you guys reset your anchor every day? Or just if the forecast says there will be a windshift....
For instance, if I go into an anchorage with the intent of staying a week.....
I put out two bow anchors 45-60 degrees apart....so I can swing with a reversing current, and have two anchors into the wind....Do I need to check each day to make sure that holds true...and if a wind shift is predicted do I put the anchors and reset?
shed some light on the procedures you use.
Generally I don't reset 'em unless I have a really good reason to. What kinds of winds in this windshift are we talking about?
I've kept my boat on two anchors for 18 months, in tidal waters with some big winds; the Bahamian Moor and its cousins are useful for this sort of thing.
I've laid to anchor for a week on one anchor...again in tidal waters (currents around 3 knots switching direction four times per day)...and that in a spot where one guy dinghied over to tell me "don't lie to one anchor here, it will never hold." Go figure. When I saw him pull in his hooks, I saw why he needed two...a 30 ft boat with two 13 lb Danforths.
Of course, with one hook out, I did not reset and just let her swing to the tides.
I've lain on both one hook and two for multiple days. The decision on which to do for me has always been equal part analysis (bottom, swing room, protection, etc) and gut based 'guess.' If in doubt, I lay two.
On two, with both the "V off the bow" and the Bahamian Moor, I've never reset my anchor(s) due to wind shift but would if the situation warranted it.
So, at the risk of again sounding trite, I have to say it depends.
In the situation you describe, and assuming "big winds," I'd lay two from the outset and likely in the Bahamian Moor configuration. It's a pretty good system and it's worked for me so I have faith in it.
There are two ways to lay this "mooring," depending on what gear you have and how long you are staying put. The first is 'easier' and the second is the more permanent.
(1) Lay the first and back down on the rode, then lay the second as you would for bow-stern anchoring, but lead the rode to the bow and TIE IT (with a rolling hitch, for example) to the first. Then, let the first rode out until the knot is well below the keel and preferably on the bottom.
(2) The two anchors are connected by a length of chain (there are rules of thumb formula for figuring the lengths...I got mine from Hiscock) with a swivel in the middle. Connect two "mooring lines" to the swivel. Lay and set the first anchor, back off letting out the chain and drop the second hook when you get to the end of the chain. Using the mooring lines (or a longer dock line attached to the swivel for this purpose), pull the boat back to the middle and pull the swivel all the way up to the boat.
Pulling the chain from the middle like this sets the second hook and with the two anchors digging in opposed to each other.
Secure the mooring lines to the bow and violins, you are "moored."
By either method, you essentially have:
<--------------------Boat--------------->
Where < and > are the anchors, and all rode essentially lead to the bow. The boat is free to swing to the wind, current and waves as she wants but really cannot go anywhere (her actual swing circle is boat length + mooring line length, which need be only little more than the depth of the water).
If I were staying in an anchorage for a week (or heck, even less) and expects "big" conditions that were changing frequently, this is what I'd do. This is what I've done.
You asked earlier (in this thread or the other one) about the two rodes getting tangled. There's a solution for that, and it's simple.
Do NOT simply lead the rodes to the foredeck and cleat them off.
Rather, ALWAYS tie the secondary to the primary (rolling hitch works great if line, a swivel or shackle if chain...and you can rolling hitch line to chain with success) and pay out the primary until the connection point is below the keel (prevents wraps) and even deeper. Doing this helps with the tangle, since the boat is mostly swinging on the primary.
Hope that helps clarify my overall strategies. 18 months at anchor in tidal waters and Hurricane Irene have been my two BIG test cases...multi-day anchorings in a single spot act as added data points.
Great replies.
I'm just meaning the normal changing conditions....
what we had was defiantly a rather large blow, and like I said we had checked the forecast 1 hour before they issued a warning about it, and it hit us about an hour after they issued the warning. Had we seen the warning I would have changed the anchors, and there is a good chance we would not have drug.
But my question is in regards to general anchoring.
when you tie off the secondary to the primary, in my case I would use a rolling hitch....
what do you do with the remainder of the rode?
Quote from: JWalker on January 15, 2012, 06:52:58 PM
Great replies.
I'm just meaning the normal changing conditions....
what we had was defiantly I rather large blow, and like I said we had checked the forecast 1 hour before they issued a warning about it, and it hit us about an hour after they issued the warning. Had we seen the warning I would have changed the anchors, and there is a good chance we would not have drug.
But my question is in regards to general anchoring.
when you tie off the secondary to the primary, in my case I would use a rolling hitch....
what do you do with the remainder of the rode?
Well, in "normal" conditions, I usually only set one anchor. ;)
The remainder of the rode comes to the foredeck to be cleated off, so there may be some twisting, but since they are connected at the hitch, they sort of twist together. I've not found it to be too bad. At least I've not found it to be the inconvenience some people make it out to be.
A big part of my piece of mind is the oversized Manson Supreme I use as my primary. I completely trust it to not unset, or if it does to reset, in a change of pull direction. This is based on both my experience and the comments of others.
The "new generation" anchors are kind of remarkable this way, and as such, are WELL worth the money.
I also trust my 32 lb S-L Claw, but must confess that I've never used it solo. It formed the 'primary' of my 18 month mooring system, though.
I've drug anchor more times than i want to count. Each and every one were "operator error," even if the error was the choice of the anchor. With the exception of the secondary claw in Irene, each and every time I drug (both boats) was with a flat fluke anchor of the general "Danforth" design or the slip ring Hooker.
I've never drug with the Manson, and while the Claw drug a little in Hurricane Irene, it was clearly my fault. The Manson did not drag in Irene, by the way. If I remember correctly (and I hope he chimes in here), Craig road out Hurricane Noel in the Bahamas lying to ONLY his Manson.
I don't want to start an 'anchor war' and as we all know, anchoring threads can get 'heated.' But I do want to say that the first step is choosing good equipment which means at the very least, for a cruising boat anchoring in all kinds of conditions, over sized.
As a secondary step, I find myself wanting to say negative things about a Danforth or flat fluke style as a primary, simply because pulling out on a direction change and 'failure to set' in that condition is too great a price for ME to pay....cruising boats face changing conditions regularly...not the exception...we need anchors that stay set. Period.
Well unfortunately we won't get to fix the anchoring issue at the moment.
We have a rental house.
Morgan and I saved up the amount we thought would be a reasonable winter budget.
Two weeks before we left on Nov 1st, the Prop Managment company called and there was an electrical problem.
$1300 out of cruising kitty.
Thats ok, we clear a little off the rent so we can still do it...lets go!
Off we went.....and the renters didnt pay November, so we covered the mortgage....They have missed before and caught up.
December came.....We covered another mortgage, and called prop management company (who have really dropped the ball) and told them if they didnt pay to send an eviction notice.
We pressed on truly believing that they would pay.
Last week we found out that not only didnt they send the eviction notice when we told them, but when they did finaly send it they got it back in the main with a notice of undeliverable. So they told us that they were going to go out and put an eviction notice on the door.
I called today and that still has not been done. (Why am I paying you people?)
The renters are now three months late, and honestly I don't believe they can come up with what they owe us.
We plan to put the house on the market when we get back, which means even if they did pay up we would just evict them in two months.
We are running low on funds having a few K taken out of our kitty, and since we have to be back in two months it makes sense to morgan and I to head back now and bring in some income till we get this cleared.
In once sense its a bit of a blow because we have *just* gotten south to the beaches palm trees and little villages that we wanted to play in....however we have learned SO MUCH about ourselves and what cruising means to us that we are good with it.
We have enjoyed the journey, we have enjoyed the cruise, we have enjoyed the people, the cold days sucked.
We will cruise more. We will cruise farther. We will cruise where it is warmer. With a BIG ANCHOR THAT WILL RESET. and a big friend to go with it.
Our post is not over, we have many thoughts to share, and once we get settled I will share them.
One thing I can say, is if you have the dream to go.....dont make a big fuss over it....just go....for however long you can, be it a week, a month, three months, a year, a decade, a lifetime, just go.
It doesnt have to happen all at once. ;)
Drawbridge Saluting us!
Sunset in Clearwater Beach
beautiful pictures!!!
Some thoughts.
This was a discovery trip for us.
Morgan and I have been talking about living on a sailboat for over 5 years.
This winter we made the break to try it out. And I sure am glad we did.
Some things were just as I thought.
The cold was still cold, the warm was wonderful.
I am not a fan of the cold. I don't plan to do any high latitude cruising in the near future. I'm a fan of global warming. Leaving out in November was cold. Its better down further south, for me. 8)
The sunsets were incredible, pictures can do them no justice.
There was one sunset while crossing from cedar key to tarpon springs, that was so colorful, and so spectacular, it was beyond any explanation. However, what is even more dificult to express was the fact that 180 degrees behind us, from this incredible sunset, was an equally beautifull moonrize. The moon coming up over the water, and the reflection reaching out towards us like a finger of light across the glassy sea. Turn around and its magnificent sunset with amazing color...... That was something I will never forget, and something I have no idea how to capture on film. If I could I'd probably be famous.
The small boat was liveable.
We really didnt have a problem living on a 25 foot boat for three months. If we were going open ended with the two of us I believe we would be a lot happier with 30 feet, but the space just wasnt a problem for us. And I also think that as we got further south we would have spent more and more time outside later and later. But honestly we spend most evenings in the cabin.
Being on the water and outside all the time was wonderful.
I like the outdoors, and I like the water.
We were able to live very frugally.
We spent more in gas than I thought we would, but we were on coarse to spend less than I had planned for. If we had the income from the rental, and also had not had to spend 1300 tw weeks before we left, we would have had a reasonable amount left at the end of the cruise. I do not think it would be to hard for two frugal people to cruise on $500 if they were good at budgeting.
That said, I think that it is important to plan for eating out and enjoying the local food and things. Also if you are trying to live on $500/mo remember that a small boat failure can be a HUGE dent in that kind of budget. If you accidentally drop a winch handle overboard, its a 10th of your monthly budget. Food for thought.
It is a healthy lifestyle full of activity. (We have both lost weight)
This is great, we feel better, we look better, we can walk farther....just because of the normal l evel of daily activity. This is something I want in my life.
A heavier boat would be better.
We knew we were going off in a light flat bottomed cruiser/racer. So we were prepared for a reasonable amount of movement, and we were not disappointed. Watching other boats at anchor, and us, and also lighter boats, the heavier ones moved less in the same choppy anchorages than we did. Don't get me wrong, all the boats move to some degree, but we spent some bumpy nights, that a heavier more wine glass bottomed boat would have been smoother I believe.
Some things were very different than we thought.
We motored ALOT more than I thought we would.
The wind wasnt always where we needed it, and contrary to what I thought, since I did not want to run into confusing channels after dark any more than I had to, rather than tack 3 miles off shore and 3 miles back in, doing 3 knots....we went strait doing 4.5 under motor. Sometimes the calm days when coming around the bend had no wind. But we didnt want to risk getting caught in bad weather, so one glassy day we motored THE WHOLE DAY, because there was no wind. We felt that it was the prudent thing to do.
Speed Matters.
I thought who cares! We are on a boat, we are cruising! We don't care about going fast! Yeah well....maybe some day I wont, but it sure did make a difference. ESPECIALLY when trying to time arrivals in daylight. For instance: lets say that the direct crossing from Dog island where we were anchored, to the anchorage behind anclote was 145 miles. Now if we make 5 mph, then it is 29 hours. But what if the wind is light? At 4 mph its 36 hours. But now what if the wind is strong? 6 mph is 24 hours. So if I say ok....24-29 hours, I'll leave at 6 am, and the earliest I'll get in is 6 am, but if its a little slow I'll get in around 11 am or so.....unless it gets really light, and then I'll get in at 6 pm. Ok...that works out for getting in at daylight, but what if its 155 miles? We just added two hours. And by the way, a lot of our sailing was at 3 mph. So for us speed mattered. Is there a 30 foot boat, with a full keel and traditional shape thats a moderate heavy displacement that does 7 knots? That would be great!!! ;D
Two crew does not negate the value of a tiller pilot. (What I would have given for one)
I say tiller pilot, and not wind vane because where we are in the coastal waters and ICW a tiller pilot would have been MUCH more valuable because it will work under motor.
A fully kitted out blue water boat with watertight bulkheads and other modifications is needed to go far.
After this trip I will seriously be examining the cruising I intend to do NOW. Not in 5 years, not someday, but now. Morgan and I don't plan to go way offshore at this point. We want to cruise the keys, and the Bahamas. This is our near term goal. I don't need to spend a lot of time trying to make my boat perfect for crossing oceans, to cruise the bahamas. I need to get out and cruise the bahamas to cruise the bahamas! ;)
I hate the outboard bracket!!!
It moves. And many times not when I want it to. And it rattles. Motor well would be MUCH prefered. >:(
I can surf the internet and look at pictures and get a really good idea of what I want.
Poppycock. I've surfed and surfed, memorized sailboatdata's website, used the sailcalc, and spent hours and hours pouring over pictures and talking about this boat and that boat. But it wasnt until I started living on the boat that I began to realize what I wanted, how I wanted, and started getting on other boats and seeing things I never realized or saw in pictures. I'm not saying don't surf and look at pics....that half the fun. But realize that it is only one part. Get on boats, get on cruising boats, get on liveaboard boats, even if its a boat you have no interest in. Talk to the people who are out there. This has a very high value IMHO.
Some things I learned that even though we can live without, there would be a lot of value added if we had them.
We would really like a freezer.
Canned meat just isnt the same, and canned veggies arent either.
As we got further south, reprovisioning stops became more frequent, but coming down the river with weeks between stores a freezer would have been wonderful. Maybe an engel....I don't know but this would be nice.
We would like pressure raw water.
Yes I know....its a system! But washing dishes would be SO much easier, and with a hose outlet to the deck rinsing the ever present anchor mud off would be easy. If it breaks we can live without it until its easy to fix. Not saying we will do this, just saying we are thinking about it.
We would like a swim platform
Getting in and out of the hard dingy off the ladder is ok, but man a swim platform would be REALLY nice.
Roller Furling
SACRILAGE!!!!! :o
Yes, but let me tell you, there were many days when there was no wind, and then wind would come up for a little while, and then die down again....and if I had a roller furling I'da pulled the sail out. But because I had to get the sail out of the laz, and hank it on I didnt. Also on the river there we MANY times when we would be on a great tack to the wind, and then have to turn into the wind, and then the river would wind back onto a good tack with the wind. Or when we were only moving a mile or two, and it just didnt seem worth getting the sail out and hanking it on just to have to unhank it and put it away in a little bit. With roller furling I would have at the very least motor sailed a lot more. And again, I'm not going offshore. I'm coastal cruising.
Excellent 'analysis;' thank-you, and grog, for posting it.
A couple of comments, just as food for thought:
(1) You mentioned speed as a way to time port arrivals during the day. That's a good point, but at the risk of sounding argumentative, that's only a variation of 'schedules are the enemy of sailing.'
Still, it *IS* a good point. I just wanted to throw that out, that speed only becomes 'desirable' in the context of getting somewhere at or before a given time.
(2) Swim Plaftform. Lin and Larry's book "Cost Conscious Cruiser" has plans for a swim platform that hangs on line loops....so you can remove it and stow it. I plan to build one. It's well worth looking at to see if something like that will suit your purpose.
(3) Pressure water? Did you have or try a pump-up sprayer? We have three of these in three different sizes. 1.5 L hand-held for the galley, 1 gallon (not used much) and the 2 gallon "Ortho."
They work GREAT for "pressure water," raw or fresh (you might want two to keep them separate), don't add electrical load, no permanent plumbing and give EXCELLENT regulation of water use.
If you tried one and found it not to your liking, disregard. ;)
(4) On your roller furling point. When we are traveling, we generally keep the headsail hanked on. Raising and lowering is not too much work. More work than a furler, but not so much as to prevent raising the sail, even for a short time.
(5) Freezer: A lot of folks end up going the fridge/freezer route. On a small boat, even a 30 footer, it's going to add its share of headaches (much increased charging capacity, more stuff to fail, etc). Not undo-able, of course...just saying it's not a 'drop in' convenience, as it were.
Thanks again for posting your list...great stuff. :)
>(1) You mentioned speed as a way to time port arrivals during the day. That's a good point, but at the risk of sounding >argumentative, that's only a variation of 'schedules are the enemy of sailing.'
>Still, it *IS* a good point. I just wanted to throw that out, that speed only becomes 'desirable' in the context of getting >somewhere at or before a given time.
Not exactly, even if you have speed...you will still have a qiven possible number of said speeds and use the same mathematical formulas to guestamate a given time, hopefully in daylight, that you may arrive. What I'm saying here is that with the typical distances *we* were likely to do, more speed would have allowed us less gap between possible arrival times, and more time in wonderful anchorages. If I was in a hurry I'd take a plane...but that doesnt mean I want to crawl either.
>(2) Swim Plaftform. Lin and Larry's book "Cost Conscious Cruiser" has plans for a swim platform that hangs on line >loops....so you can remove it and stow it. I plan to build one. It's well worth looking at to see if something like that will >suit your purpose.
The book is at home on the shelf. I will will look at it when I get there. May be perfect for our next boat.
>(3) Pressure water? Did you have or try a pump-up sprayer? We have three of these in three different sizes. 1.5 L >hand-held for the galley, 1 gallon (not used much) and the 2 gallon "Ortho."
>They work GREAT for "pressure water," raw or fresh (you might want two to keep them separate), don't add electrical >load, no permanent plumbing and give EXCELLENT regulation of water use.
>If you tried one and found it not to your liking, disregard. ;)
No we never did get around to trying this, partly because we started trying to skimp and give the renters time to pay. It was on the list, just didnt get to it. Will try one.
>(4) On your roller furling point. When we are traveling, we generally keep the headsail hanked on. Raising and lowering >is not too much work. More work than a furler, but not so much as to prevent raising the sail, even for a short time.
We did this some. I made a mental note every time I thought if I had roller furling that I would use the sail, and I tell you, it was alot. I dunno what we will do ultimately, but I'm very open to RF
>(5) Freezer: A lot of folks end up going the fridge/freezer route. On a small boat, even a 30 footer, it's going to add its >share of headaches (much increased charging capacity, more stuff to fail, etc). Not undo-able, of course...just saying it's >not a 'drop in' convenience, as it were.
Yep, I will have to re think the solar requirements, and maybe should add a wind generator. HOWEVER, some wise sage moderator on this board said it best:
"A well-respected KISS sailor once told me that the key to living aboard with my family, especially on a small KISS boat, is "reduction of misery.""
Who was it that said that? ::) I need to give them another grog for saying it.
My "family" wants to be able to use frozen meats and veggies like she does at home. Just freezer, not a refrigerator. And if that is the cost to make her happy with the lifestyle, I can figure it out. We are thinking engel, but I'm interested in the keel coolers at this point also, I've heard alot of good things about them.
I'll post more as I think of things.
Excellent reply! This is what I love about this site and the back-n-forth we have here. KISS is not a one-size-fits-all thing at all, and it does not have to mean 'spartan' or uncomfortable.
What we DO have is a reaction to experience rather than a "do it because everyone says so." Maybe some of those saying so are saying based on experience, but, well, many are not.
Craig has pointed out that we need to be careful about the voices we heed. I can think of no better voice to heed than one's own experience.
Hope that makes sense.
In other words, your boat, your choices! ;D
Quote from: JWalker on January 18, 2012, 11:44:38 AM
Not exactly, even if you have speed...you will still have a qiven possible number of said speeds and use the same mathematical formulas to guestamate a given time, hopefully in daylight, that you may arrive. What I'm saying here is that with the typical distances *we* were likely to do, more speed would have allowed us less gap between possible arrival times, and more time in wonderful anchorages. If I was in a hurry I'd take a plane...but that doesnt mean I want to crawl either.
Two ideas at work here. One, with no schedule at all, a LOT of speed pressures dissolve. Maybe that's an "ideal." Second, with some comfort at staying "out" longer, organizing into watches, etc, the gaps or jumps become less of an issue.
Lin and Larry, for example (eek, I seem to be referencing them a lot lately), advocate working toward getting away from the overnight-36 hour "jump" and move more to multi-day and week long jumps. It does, of course, depend on where you are "cruising" and what you want to see.
I think in part we have to be careful to distinguish between "cruising" and "delivering" or make a passage to get to cruising grounds.
The East Coast of the US is a good example. A lot of folks work up or down in one day hops...whether ICW or inside. Nothing wrong with that, but...it DOES put some pressure on getting to the next anchorage as a "scheduling issue."
As an alternative, L&L say (and others say and do, also) forego that and just make 5-6 day hops. One thing that comes with this is your reliability in the weather forecast goes down, so you HAVE to have some allowable slop in your arrival time. It becomes less about "I want to get there by x oclock," for example.
I have hove-to outside a sea buoy waiting for more favorable conditions to enter a port. We were hove-to outside once for about 10 hours.
I could have chosen to motor in anyway, regardless of condition. Some would do that. In some of those cases, getting "in" was the more immediate goal.
I'm not disagreeing with you...at all. I'm just saying that there are different ways to look at this "problem" of gap-size for the hops working down the coast. And...as always, it always depends on a LOT of factors....so, no 'right' answer.
Quote
>(4) On your roller furling point. When we are traveling, we generally keep the headsail hanked on. Raising and lowering >is not too much work. More work than a furler, but not so much as to prevent raising the sail, even for a short time.
We did this some. I made a mental note every time I thought if I had roller furling that I would use the sail, and I tell you, it was alot. I dunno what we will do ultimately, but I'm very open to RF
Quite a few sail-far-ers have rf and love it...I think it's VERY cool that you had the awareness to note that thought and found it to be an improvement to your boat that you'd like to make.
Quote
Yep, I will have to re think the solar requirements, and maybe should add a wind generator. HOWEVER, some wise sage moderator on this board said it best:
"A well-respected KISS sailor once told me that the key to living aboard with my family, especially on a small KISS boat, is "reduction of misery.""
Who was it that said that? ::) I need to give them another grog for saying it.
My "family" wants to be able to use frozen meats and veggies like she does at home. Just freezer, not a refrigerator. And if that is the cost to make her happy with the lifestyle, I can figure it out. We are thinking engel, but I'm interested in the keel coolers at this point also, I've heard alot of good things about them.
I'll post more as I think of things.
It was s/v Faith who first said this, so make sure the grog goes to him! I've 'stolen' it as a mantra and repeat it...but, it's his Intellectual Property (haha...I fit it in on this day).
And, it's a VERY good point. You boat, your freezer.
Truthfully, I bring up an Engel to my wife probably 3-4 times a year. Staying in this rental house now, we've commented about adding a fridge/freezer on the boat.
For me, though, it would require two compromises that I'm just not willing to make right now. One, I could work around. The other is charging capacity, though...and I just don't have it. Every time I think about it, I look at the energy budget and it gets blown out.
That's just for me/us, though. We lived aboard for three years using only ice in coolers/icebox. In truth, we DID miss fridge/freezer occasionally, but as I said, not enough to make the compromise. At the slip it would work, of course...but I've always been trying to keep the boat in "at sea" trim as far as this sort of thing goes (my big concession was of course adding AC....).
I'm certainly not saying this as an absolute. I only wanted to reiterate the caution that a LOT of 'negativity' cruising seems to sprout from the refrigeration unit. I guess one could argue just as much sprouts from not having one! ;D
Thanks again for the discussion. I truly do appreciate, and applaud you, that you are taking these lessons from your cruise. Wonderful stuff!!
Great reading and just a thought, in caravans there are often (or at least used to be) freezers that can be powered by both propane/butane and electricity.
Are there perhaps any that could be adapted to boat use?
Propane freezers/frigs work well in campers and motor homes. But they must be operated in a level setting- can't do that on something that heels.
As far as I'm concerned, a freezer isn't worth the space- and this after two and half years aboard. We used ice and really did without that all during our 3 mos Bahamas time.
As for meats, self canned stuff is far better than store bought canned stuff, and last for a long time. I have some here at the house that Laura canned a year ago- still quite good. Best thing about it is it isn't loaded with sodium as the canned stuff often is. She canned ground meat, roast beef, pork chunks, ground sausage, link sausage, and chicken. Used half- pint jars which left no leftovers.
I think a recipe is required to go with that post. :)
>Lin and Larry, for example (eek, I seem to be referencing them a lot lately), advocate working toward getting away from the >overnight-36 hour "jump" and move more to multi-day and week long jumps. It does, of course, depend on where you are >"cruising" and what you want to see.
Morgan and I talked alot about this. We have met cruisers on this journey that felt both ways. We personally think we would be more into voyaging to where we want to be cruising, and then cruising. At least for now. You are exactly right, the reason we were trying to get in in the daylight was because we were doing short hops, which for this journey, and in this boat was the right thing to do. And even had the weather cooperated and we did the overnight jump to tarpon, its still just a single night.....I can see taking off and four days later arriving in key west. Not to say that doing short hops is bad or anything, but at this point, we have places we would like to be and experience....so voyaging makes sense to us, AND in truth, morgan and I have felt like we have been voyaging, trying to get to they keys. So this makes alot of sense to *us*
>As for meats, self canned stuff is far better than store bought canned stuff
Morgan had done some canning on board, and I wanted her to do more, but she did a batch of ground beef and it turned out like dog food. She kinda lost interest at that point, and hasent canned since. I think I will be able to talk her in to practicing more, but at this point, the pressure cooker is for baking.
By the way, Thanks for all the comments from everyone!
Its really nice to know people are reading! :D
I have enjoyed reading your adventure. I keep up with Charlie J and his cruising. It give me a better in site on the 4 W's.
We hope to leave here the latter part of March. I have one problem to figure out. I have to be back in S.A. every 60 days for my cancer check up. Any suggestion anyone on how to do this.
Man, back every 60 days....that would be tough. I don't suppose you can schedule treatments along your route?
Charlie, thanks for the heads up on the gathering place. Good food!
Isn't the owner lady a hoot? Did she have her striped socks on?
Quote from: JWalker on January 18, 2012, 10:20:55 PM
Man, back every 60 days....that would be tough. I don't suppose you can schedule treatments along your route?
David has to go to the VA hospital in San Antonio for his treatments, sad to say. He'll probably have to ride a bus, or rent a car.
Yes she was wearing her striped socks. ;D
Quote from: JWalker on January 18, 2012, 01:27:52 AM
Some thoughts.
This was a discovery trip for us.........
Nice post :)
Always a difference between what can be done and what actually want to do - the "answer" on that varies for each - at the end of the day boats are meant to be enjoyable :)
With regards to your anchoring questions, there is an excellent book called the Complete Guide to Anchoring and Line Handling (http://www.amazon.com/Hearst-Marine-Complete-Anchoring-Handling/dp/0688137342) that answers pretty much every question you can have.
I used it to do my first splices, and they're still in use on my chain snubber. I also used it to design my ground tackle system, and I am extremely happy with the choices I've made.
Regardless, for your Yankee Dolphin I'd suggest a Rocna 15 (33lbs) as your primary anchor. Put a Kong swivel on it and then at least 50' of 1/4" HT chain and at least 150' of 1/2" 3-strand anchor line. You could go 5/8" with the line if you are uncomfortable with 1/2" but I don't think it is necessary. Put at least one massive cleat in the foredeck for anchoring and towing use. Get serious chafe guard. Firehose is terrific stuff!
This is overkill ground tackle that will let you sleep at night. Technically that anchor could hold Starquest in most conditions and bottoms. After a lot of research (some of it the hard way) I use a 25kg/55lb Rocna, Kong swivel, and all-chain 3/8th BBB rode with rope snubber. I'll be upgrading to 3/8 HT eventually to bring the chain up to the strength of the swivel. I am (more-or-less) permanently anchored with just this single anchor, and I don't budge!
The down-side to the oversize Rocna is, of course, pulling it up. You will likely need to power it out or use a winch of some sort. There is a space on the shank of the anchor for attaching a trip line, and I would highly recommend doing so! Attach a float to the line and it serves as an anchor marker as well.
Seafarer, you sound like you've drug before! ;)
I was anchored in the Manatee River near the first bridge- too tall to go under it to the very protected cove on the other side which has a small community of people living aboard small sailboats (all around 25'). I was using the only anchor I had at the time- a large danforth that had held me from March to October in the hard-pack sand of Boca Ciega Bay. The river, however, has a mud bottom. A storm came through and there was about 30 seconds of 60 knot winds which broke the anchor free. It went into a milk crate on the bottom and couldn't reset, allowing the boat to drag a mile down river and run aground just off the dock of the only people in the area that I actually knew! It was a storm-driven high-tide so Starquest stayed aground for a month until another storm-driven high-tide floated her off. By that time the Rocna was on the chain and she has stayed where I left her ever since!
Starquest is actually aground in this picture. This was how I found her shortly after she drug. In the foreground is the bow of a Carolina Skiff on a lift at the end of a dock.
(http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/305167_2565163939032_1552145320_32588959_1513579029_n.jpg)
This is low tide a couple weeks later. I bought chest waders and a tile scraper and cleaned the hull while the situation presented itself. The boat is actually further from the dock than in the first picture.
(http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/309866_2565191139712_1552145320_32588962_205197929_n.jpg)
Now thats the kind of "already been there done that" info I like....pics included!!!!! ;D
grog fer dat