sailFar.net

I've looked at a couple Bayfield 29s the past week and I'm seriously thinking of putting an offer in on one. Like, maybe tonight.

Mission: Liveaboard (finally), with eventual cruising to points south, including some real offshore Bermuda type sailing. Requirements: standing headroom, seaworthiness, a separate head (I know many of you think I'm silly here...it's not for me, it's for "company"), a double bunk (for the aforementioned "company"), at least one good sea bunk, generally comfortable (life is too short to be miserable), between 28 and 32 feet long.

The Bayfield 29 is probably closer to a 27 footer  because of the bowsprit. No worries, as it feels pretty big inside as a result of eliminating the v-berth. A large chain locker, storage locker, and head live up front. An ideal layout, I think. Well, unless you are trying to use the toilet in a seaway...a bucket in the cockpit might be better for that. There is real headroom, and I don't feel cramped walking through the cabin; yet with a folding table on the centerline, and a keel stepped mast, there appears to be plenty to hold on to. The stowage looks quite adequate. Decent chart table/ice box and two quarter berths (one is a little tight vertically in the foot area for me). Propane un-gimballed two burner stove-top; but no oven. I don't see any easy way to fix that. An OK sized sink and enough galley stowage for a decent set of cooking gear. The upholstery looks OK; but is perhaps a bit dated. I noticed no sign of water intrusion. The boat's owners moved to Ohio and the boat has been neglected a bit, and needs a good cleaning; but I didn't see any obvious failings.

There is a decent sized cockpit with some good storage areas. Tiller and tiller pilot come with the boat. There is a dodger and bimini (not installed at the moment), and possibly a full cockpit enclosure. Condition of canvas is currently a mystery. The companionway does extend a little below seat level; so offshore work suggests keeping the bottom board in and bolted would be prudent. The cockpit drains could be bigger.  The cockpit engine room cover needs a new gasket to keep a flooded cockpit from flooding the engine room, and by extension, the rest of the boat. There is good access to the 15hp Yanmar (I know nothing of diesels, so that will be a learning curve) which is nice.

She is cutter rigged with two roller furling headsails (reportedly yankee cut for good visibility). A storm jib that wraps around a roller reefed jib is included. A moisture meter showed a couple wet spots near one stanchion and near one chainplate; but a hammer didn't indicate any delamination (a surveyor should give me more info). One lower shroud looks like it has been damaged and should probably be replaced. One teak cabintop handrail is broken and needs to be replaced. There is life line netting; but it has seen better days and needs to be removed. The lifelines themselves are more than likely original and could probably use refreshing. All the exterior teak needs stripping and refinishing. I'm not happy with the ground tackle. The cockpit engine room cover needs a new gasket.

Electronics appear limited to a VHF, depth sounder, and wind instruments.

Other gear: Marine A/C

Recently barrier coated (boat was in the water so I didn't see the bottom...it will need to be pulled for survey). Three bladed prop on 15 hp diesel (reported to burn 1/2 gallon/hr at cruising speed).

The numbers: Draft: around 3'6" feet (sweet!). LOA: 29', LWL: 21'9", Beam: 10'2", Displacement: 7,100#, Ballast 3000#
The calculations: CSR: 2.03 (just over the mythical 2.0); Motion Comfort: 23.46; Hull speed: 6.23 Knots

Asking price: $18,900.

Very, very tempted. The CSR makes me pause; but it was never intended on being a be all end all number. This boat is supposed to have been designed for coastal and offshore work and several have done just that. Still, perhaps the Horn is not in my future.

As a small liveaboard I can't come up with a much better compromise. I'm thinking hard on this one. The money will hurt.  :-\

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1982/Bayfield-29-2500222/Georgetown/MD/United-States

The only thing I can suggest is to check the condition of the trail boards (?term?) on the bowsprit... apparently they are vulnerable to being damaged by wave action. Otherwise, it has always seemed like a nice enough boat design.
It's a lot of boat for what is effectively a 27-footer.

Nice looking boat, looks roomy and has a tiller!

pretty boat i you like clipper bow and sprit. I's waterline is qute short so don't expect it to be a fast 29-footer.

I would have someone knowledgeable (since you claim not to be  ;)do a thourough check of the old engine and have it tried at sea. If the engine is not corroded (in-or outside) and well maintained the years aren't to be afraid of. (maybe like us sailors?) but stay away from a rusty, leaking piece of steel OR make an offer as i there were n engine onboard. Repowering is a reality within th next few years most likel sp you'd like to budget for it.

Good luck with it and keep us posted, a?ways interesting to read accounts of the 'getting a new boat project'
;D

It's really more of a 27 footer. Full keel (pretty shoal, too). The engine looks clean. The boat looks pretty good (except for the teak which needs work and a lot of cleaning). I really am a small boat guy.

If they accept the offer, there will be an initial sea trial just me and the broker to make sure it is really what I am looking for, followed by a full survey (including another sea trial). It is not a trivial amount of money to me, so I don't want any surprises. I will have the engine oil sent out for analysis.

This boat is a definite step up in complexity for me. I love the interior. I like the clipper bow. There are a few things I'm not thrilled with; but life is compromise. If the boat is as it appears, with a nominal amount of changes it should be capable of pretty much taking me anywhere I'm likely to want to go. And be a pretty comfortable place to call home at the same time.

But, first, the owners need to decide what to do with my offer.

Getting rid of Godot (Seafarer 24) will be hard. :(

It is a beautiful boat with really pretty lines.  :D

You're going to have to change your screen name if you get it though.

It's a big hunk of change, but worth it if you like it. Not all that bad of a price for a home, if you think of it in those terms.

Best wishes on getting your offer accepted!

Sounds like you're on the right track.  Best of luck! Cheers, Colin

Alright! It looks like I am now a two boat owner.

Or will be once the process of money, inspections, sea trials, second guessing, surveys, insurance, documentation, etc... goes through.

Assuming no surprises, of course.

Congrats!!!  The 29 truly is a unique, open design that I'm sure will make a wonderful "home" for you. Ya gotta love that shallow draft too! Hope all goes well and you build a ton of great memories aboard!!!

Fun, fun, fun!

Congratulations on your new home!
I hope she brings you many wonderful days of gunkholing and gliding through channels where deeper draft vessels dare not venture!

Wow, good news. Hope everything will be just as you wish it to be.  ;D

Excellent choice for a liveaboard! My wife, daughter and I sailed an '88 Bayfield 29c I used to own from Lake Superior to the Bahamas and back. Very comfortable cruiser. Not the fastest boat under sail, but well built and classically nice to look at.

Good luck with your new home.

She passed survey! The must fix list is an easy three items, and the nice to fix list about a dozen (mostly things like sand and refinish teak, paint bottom, replace gate valve, tie up wires,  replace head corrugated hoses, put the deck wash down on its' own circuit breaker, wrap rigging cotter pins to avoid injury, replace outdated fire extinguisher, replace cracked bow light lens, etc...) fairly easy projects. Minor surface blistering on hull; but nothing deep and hull is otherwise solid. Deck is dry. Engine is strong. Rig is fine. Mainsail/jib/staysail are fair; but should give me a few years (I may send them to sailcare this winter). Storm jib and Cruising Spinnaker are in great shape and look new, though the storm jib needs to be modified to work with the roller furling. Knotmeter thought we were doing 9 knots under sail, so either this is a magically fast boat or I have to figure out how to calibrate it.

No deal breakers.

The wallet gets lighter soon...

Good!  Congratulatons! Indeed a positive survey, the 'nice-to-do' stuff is like on all boats, just an ongoing project with the upkeep.  ;D ;D

So, when will you get hold on her?

Congrats, Adam.  I am looking forward to hearing about your travels.

The balance has been wired to the escrow fund. I could, in theory, pick the boat up this afternoon; but I'm heading to Massachusetts for a couple days, so I am delaying closing until Monday afternoon (it's a holiday, so I'm working around the broker hours) or Tuesday morning. The current arrangement, though, is the broker will set up the temporary registration as soon as he confirms receipt of funds and by agreement with the previous owner I can take possession immediately. No rush. I still need to find a ride to the marina anyhow, and finish getting insurance and a slip arranged for.

Adam,

Sounds good. Bayfields are nice boats. I remember somebody (he knew Gozzard, the designer) saying that some of the earlier models were heavy on the use of resin and so might develop cosmetic cracks (Canadian fibreglass being heavier than American fiberglass at one time), but that's hardly a fault.

You'll enjoy your new boat. Sailer her to Massachusetts some time.

--Joe

Next June I hope to make the trek to Massachusetts. I tried this year in Godot but got turned around by weather.

I'm liking the Bayfield, I really am!

I had her out all weekend. Yesterday in less than ten knots of wind she was indicating over 6 knots on the GPS (over NINE knots on the knot meter...I'm guessing there just might be a calibration issue to be worked out there). Today with the winds gusting over twenty she was easily pushing hull speed. She was initially a handful; but once I got around to putting in a reef on the main, she handled quite easily and was light on the helm.

I'm struggling with tight quarters (read: marina) maneuvering under power. I miss the directional thrust of the outboard. It's going to take some practice to learn how to take advantage of the diesel prop walk, especially with the somewhat tricky layout of my marina.

Roller furling (Schaefer) works great. I haven't tried reefing the head sails as they are already pretty small. But there are two of them. I did depower by pulling in one of the jibs which worked great. Tacking a cutter is a bit more work but I think I'm getting the hang of it. It's not as quick (at least not yet) as Godot, though. Practice, practice, practice.

I'm not a fan of the propane instant water heater. It doesn't seem to work as well as it should, and I really don't like the propane tee fitting under the quarter berth. I think I'll just pull the thing out. Maybe I'll install an electric heater. The boat is raw water cooled, so I'm not sure what would be involved in putting in a heat exchanger. Probably more effort than it's worth. I wouldn't bother; but convenient hot water seems like a good idea for a dockside liveaboard. I may change my mind if the bank account dips too low or if I get particularly lazy. I'm just not that excited about it.

The twenty year old A/C unit works...barely. It might need a cleaning. Or a recharge. Or replacement. One way or another, though, I think I'll keep the A/C. Given how hot this summer was, I'm beginning to think of it as a desirable component for the reduction of misery. Maybe a good vacuuming will bring it back to life.

The Groco toilet need rebuilding, the waste hoses need replacing, and the overboard discharge gate valve needs updating to a real marine seacock. I might take the opportunity to update the system with an electric macerating toilet or a Lavac. I'm undecided which way to go. I'm still considering a composting dry toilet too (especially now that I have a remarkably large and comfortable head with plenty of room). While I don't anticipate showering on board all that often, I may put in a shower sump and pump, too, for those rare occasions instead of letting the shower runoff run into the bilge. Or maybe I'll just decide to never shower aboard.

The insurance company (BoatUS) has pretty much decided to mandate all the "nice to have" recommendations from the surveyor and is requiring an action plan. They can be a pain in the butt.

There are some comfort tweaks to be done; but nothing serious. A good scrubbing, and a lot of teak varnishing (or better yet, oiling) should really pretty her up. There is a fair amount of storage space; but it will take some experimentation to figure out the best use of it.

I'm really pleased. I'm still crying a little bit over the bite to the bank account; but I really believe this was a good decision. s/v Godot is a great sailor; but really isn't big enough for me and my plans. I think the Bayfield ("La Princesa"...current but decidedly temporary name as I really don't want to be known as "The Princess") is big enough and capable enough without being inconveniently and expensively oversized. And she turns heads, too.

That's great to hear!

One of the tricks that helps in small spaces with an inboard engine, if your prop washes against your rudder, is to put the rudder hard over when you don't have any way on and give some good rpms in forward gear.  The prop wash deflects off the rudder and acts a bit like a stern thruster imparting a good bit of sideways motion.

Good for you, Adam!  I some how missed this thread and just read through it with the envy meter pegged ;D The Bayfield 29 is on my list of highly coveted boats and they don't just show up on every corner either.  There is a couple of videos on you tube I watched by a lady named Rebecca Burg who lives on her Bayfield 29.  Her website is www.artoffshore.com and it is apparent she loves her boat and lifestyle.  So do I!
Hey, if it turns out this boat isn't what you're hoping, let's talk ;D

Quote from: Godot on September 15, 2012, 07:47:57 PM

I'm liking the Bayfield, I really am!

Congrats!  Glad to hear you are enjoying the new boat.

Quote

I'm not a fan of the propane instant water heater. It doesn't seem to work as well as it should, and I really don't like the propane tee fitting under the quarter berth. I think I'll just pull the thing out. Maybe I'll install an electric heater. The boat is raw water cooled, so I'm not sure what would be involved in putting in a heat exchanger. Probably more effort than it's worth. I wouldn't bother; but convenient hot water seems like a good idea for a dockside liveaboard. I may change my mind if the bank account dips too low or if I get particularly lazy. I'm just not that excited about it.

We, as a family of four, lived aboard 3 years without heated running water (or any kind of hot water instantly available).  All heating of water was done on the stove or via solar (a Sun Shower bag).

In my experience, there is absolutely no reason a dedicated water heating unit is needed, or even reduces misery all that much.  Yes, there was probably one or two days in that three years I wished I did not have heat water as a separate step, but very rare that it even came to mind.

The gain in simplicity of the boat and her systems as well as an increased "connection" to the day to day chores (yes, a tiny bit more work) more than made up for the "cost" on the old cost-benefit continuum...for us at least.

I mention this just to emphasize that 'home conveniences' like available hot water do not scale the same on a boat as they do in a house.  A house as the room and "infrastructure" to pull it off; a boat...VERY MUCH less so.

Quote

The insurance company (BoatUS) has pretty much decided to mandate all the "nice to have" recommendations from the surveyor and is requiring an action plan. They can be a pain in the butt.

I find the BoatUS insurance program to be ungodly expensive and far too restricting in how I can use my boat.  Have you shopped for insurance?

Full coverage on my boat through my auto carrier (Allstate in my case) is about 1/10 what BoatUS wanted...and BoatUS had "use restrictions" like cannot be in Florida certain months, yadda yadda that the other did not provide.

Quote

I'm really pleased. I'm still crying a little bit over the bite to the bank account; but I really believe this was a good decision.

Indeed.  How many houses can you buy for what you paid for that boat?  Now, how many of those homes are mobile, and can take you on the adventures on which that boat can take you?  I'm guessing "zero" is the answer to both questions.

It's an investment...not in a boat that can be resold as a profit, but in your life.   ;)

Quote from: Captain Smollett on September 17, 2012, 11:20:54 AM

In my experience, there is absolutely no reason a dedicated water heating unit is needed, or even reduces misery all that much.  Yes, there was probably one or two days in that three years I wished I did not have heat water as a separate step, but very rare that it even came to mind.

That is why I'm not that excited about it. I think I'll make an effort at understanding the current propane driven heater. If I can get it to work adequately, then I'll keep it. If I can't, I'll probably go without for awhile and see how it works for me. Not having a water heater would reduce any inclination to use the shower. If I don't use the shower I won't have to worry about installing a sump and pump (right now it drains directly into the bilge, which does not strike me as being a good thing). If I find I miss the hot water at the tap (it's a pressurized system), I can always install a new heater later.

Quote

I find the BoatUS insurance program to be ungodly expensive and far too restricting in how I can use my boat.  Have you shopped for insurance?

Full coverage on my boat through my auto carrier (Allstate in my case) is about 1/10 what BoatUS wanted...and BoatUS had "use restrictions" like cannot be in Florida certain months, yadda yadda that the other did not provide.

I was under the impression that all the auto carriers had liveaboard restrictions. Since that is my eventual goal once the house is taken care of I went with BoatUS as they don't appear to have the same restriction. They don't want me south of Norfolk, VA between June 1st and November 1st, though.

Quote

Indeed.  How many houses can you buy for what you paid for that boat?  Now, how many of those homes are mobile, and can take you on the adventures on which that boat can take you?  I'm guessing "zero" is the answer to both questions.

It's an investment...not in a boat that can be resold as a profit, but in your life.   ;)

That's pretty much how I look at it. It just hurts to empty the bank account so soon after finally putting something in it. Money has been an issue for several years, now. It's hard to let it go.

On the other hand, my confidence in the economy is not terribly high. Keeping some net worth in a hard asset makes a lot of sense to me. Barring acts of God, carelessness, or exceptional bad luck, I should always have a home. And one that's mobile as well. Heck, if I lose my job tomorrow that only means I head south even earlier than planned (even if I have to live on rice and beans).

Congrats.... nice cruiser for sure!!!

Quote from: Godot on September 17, 2012, 03:20:13 PM


I was under the impression that all the auto carriers had liveaboard restrictions. Since that is my eventual goal once the house is taken care of I went with BoatUS as they don't appear to have the same restriction. They don't want me south of Norfolk, VA between June 1st and November 1st, though.

Hmmm...ours, Allstate, provided coverage of our boats without any asking of stuff like that.  All they wanted was HIN so they could do a records check (and no doubt blue book check).

Our little boat has full coverage, but the A-30 does not (though we do have a policy on her).  However, they DO know we were liveaboards when we got the policy, because the agent, one of his assistants and I talked at length about living on a boat the day I got the policy.

It never phased them, they did not say anything about restrictions for using the boat in that manner, and not one single word about when/where we can use the boat(s) under their coverage.

I'd NEVER let an insurance company tell me where to use the boat and when.  That was a deal breaker (moreso than the cost) for me using BoatUS...and I told them so.

Self-insuring a sailfar size/priced boat is, to me, a MUCH better option than that.  Scary thought, I know, but it helps my mind to remember they are not really in the business of helping me so much as taking my money (and somehow justifying dictating to me when/how I can use my own personal property).

YMMV...

Adam,

Glad to hear that you're enjoying the Bayfield.
FWIW, I found Boat US insurance too inflexible for me. They refused to issue a certificate in time for me to have the boat sailed from New London, CT, to Buzzards Bay, MA, in time. So I contacted a local independent agent. They got me a Travelers policy. I'm not sure that company still writes marine insurance, but I've got the same Nov. 1 haul-out deadline if I keep the boat in New England.

Another thought on insurance: Have you contacted Amica?

Best of luck with your new boat and potential future home.

--Joe

I also have my boat insurance with my auto carrier (Farm Bureau) and it is much less than BOAT/US and they did not require a survey.
When I lived aboard on the hook I used a sun shower or I heated water on the stove and put it in a bug sprayer I think it was 1/4 hot water to 3/4 cold, you can wet down , soap, and rise off with less than a gallon of water.
Enjoy your new adventure, you picked a great boat

Quote from: CaptMac on September 17, 2012, 06:06:02 PM


When I lived aboard on the hook I used a sun shower or I heated water on the stove and put it in a bug sprayer I think it was 1/4 hot water to 3/4 cold, you can wet down , soap, and rise off with less than a gallon of water.

Yep, and just to mention it:  I have a friend that has gone to doing this at home (land based home).  One of his teen-aged daughters uses this method to shower as well, and has reported to him "no loss of comfort."

I don't think she's an exceptionally "earthy" teen girl...

Just pointing out that keeping with the 'reduction of misery' principle, sometimes we talk ourselves into being miserable.  If a teen girl can do this and actually still enjoy her showers, not considering it 'sacrifice,' it must not be giving up too much.

(Not aimed at anyone in particular...just a general remark regarding what we give up, or don't really give up, to live aboard small boats...the psychological hurdles are the biggest).

Did that when I lived full time on my Trimaran and also for all the time we cruised on Tehani..

When cruising, used Wet Wipes a lot, since you really don't usually get dirty enough to NEED a shower every day. In warm clean water, I bathed in salt, then rinsed with the solar shower. I've had two different ladies aboard full time, and neither had any objections. Of course, both were "salty ladies" :D

I also have one  of the solar showers from DuckWorks aboard Necessity. Same thing I used on Tehani. Built for them as a shower.

As an extra point, in the south for sure, I'd never have a shower below decks. May as well just issue an invite for mold and mildew.  I've seen many many boats with enclosed showers that were mildewed all to pieces.

Now I must admit, I've never lived aboard in winter north of Annapolis Maryland, so that could change my mind, but I doubt it.

From the Duckworks website, under "gear", here's the sprayer


(http://www.duckworksbbs.com/gear/shower/shower.jpg)

Please understand that showering onboard (meaning below deck) was never going to be a regular thing, and quite possibly a never thing. I'm quite aware of the downside of a shower in a small boat. And there is no need so long as I am at my marina which has excellent showers. If I'm out cruising, then I'm in Cruising Mode not Work Mode and there is generally no problem using alternate hygiene methods and daily showers become an extravagant luxury instead of a professional necessity. 

But hot tap water (pressurized, even) is a nice convenience. Remember, this will be a live aboard (<sigh>...eventually anyhow...schedules were born to be broken apparently) before it becomes a full time vehicle to adventure. Still, hot water was never a huge priority, and I probably wouldn't have thought of it at all if it wasn't already installed.  It is something I need to consider given the questionable pre-existing water heater. Do I repair? Do I replace? Do I remove? There is room for the heater. The plumbing infrastructure is already in place. It is not that big a deal to install a new heater. The question is only if the convenience outweighs the $250 (plus probably another $50-100 in incidental expenses) cost plus a day or so of my labor.

Can I live without? Sure. It's a luxury not a necessity. But where is it written that we aren't allowed some luxury?

Quote from: Godot on September 18, 2012, 09:27:47 AM

Do I repair? Do I replace? Do I remove?

Remove.   ;D ;D  (since you asked...)

Quote

The question is only if the convenience outweighs the $250 (plus probably another $50-100 in incidental expenses) cost plus a day or so of my labor.

Lin and Larry's term:  Freedom Chips

That $300 is a MONTH of cruising if you go into low-spend mode.

But more importantly, what is the long term 'cost.'  How often will you be repairing this "system" in the future?  How often will you possibly even be worried about repairing it?  What complexity does it add to other "systems" aboard?

What if you have a guest aboard, someone who has come to expect running hot water...and it fails then.  There are "hidden" costs to these extravagances that is very hard to measure. 

Remove the system: removes expectation and removes the costs of failure.

Quote

Can I live without? Sure. It's a luxury not a necessity. But where is it written that we aren't allowed some luxury?

Luxury breeds dependence on itself.  That's the big downside.

Does that mean no luxury, ever?  Where are the lines?  Personal questions each must answer.

Fuel for thought, philosophical pondering follows:

The dependency is the problem....the "my water heater is broken, I must fix it NOW" mind set that might kick in at any port while cruising.  The Pardey's have written about this extensively.  It's all mental...what can you do without, what do you want to do without, what bothers you to think about doing without.

In other words, I think the bigger question to ask is "why do I consider running hot water a luxury that I want?"  What's driving the DESIRE to even have it.  This is truly a separate question, and one to ponder on a dark peaceful night at anchor (or in the marina).

If the desire to have some luxury is there, the "I want it" mind set will always be there...it will be something missed...and that can be like a needle in the side, or a rock in the shoe.

If you are even asking the question "should I fix it," perhaps it is more than a luxury and at some level has arisen to "desirable" or even perceived as "necessity."

At one point in my life, while holding a nice job, but more or less living out of my car plus a closet, the solution for showering was simple - health club membership: locker, facilities for showering, etc. plus even had laundry facilities. This is presuming you're not at a marina with shore facilities available to you. It kinda beats the need for fooling with the shower below decks. Lin & Larry had a sort of a sitz bath arrangement that slid out from under the cockpit diagrammed in one of their boats. Most ladies would happily bathe rather than shower anyway.

When we were on the Texas 200 this year we had a sun shower (5 gallon type) for the first few days. It was nice to rinse off after a hot day on the water before going to bed. We lost it over board on the 3rd day due to winds and just not tieing it down, really missed it. This was a very nice to have item. The boat we were on had no water system at all just some storage bottles and small drinking bottles. We showered in the cockpit after dark. Over all when I move my 27 footer to the coast will will have a sunshower on board and make use of it as I can.

this thread has caused me to dust off my aged copy of Alan Pirsig's "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" and revisit the metaphysics of quality... That said, I also re-read tolkien's trilogy each year...

I would replace the hot water heater, :) but there is a lot of experience here that says not! Probably better off taking their advice.
I am going to install a shower in my new 28, but I haven't totally ignored the advice from others. We will have a roof hatch an opening port and a louvered door on the head.
I know a boat is not a house, but personally Larry and Lin have more tolerance to do without than I do. ;D

 ;D ;D ;D
Totally tongue in cheek here-

But why do you need a HOT water heater? If it's HOT water, it doesn't need heating!! You need to heat COLD water. So perhaps it should be called just a "water heater"

;D ;D ;D

Isn't our use of language funny sometimes?

Quote from: SalientAngle on September 18, 2012, 12:58:25 PM

this thread has caused me to dust off my aged copy of Alan Pirsig's "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" and revisit the metaphysics of quality... That said, I also re-read tolkien's trilogy each year...

If you like Pirsig's style of writing, you might like his take on cruising:

http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php/topic,1276.msg35540.html#msg35540

(on topic to the thread, too)

thanks for the link, very insightful, put a grog on my tab, I have been trolling the wealth of information on this sight daily, but had not seen that thread, again thanks!!!

Thanks John- I had lost that when the other computer crashed. Got it saved again.

Also have a long, and very rare, interview with him. VERY complex and deep individual.

Small world, I interviewed Alan whilst I was a journalism student at Marquette University in 1974, yes, complex is true, insightful, also true, and "chataqua" gave me new meaning in the turmoil of the times, cheers

edit to reflect correct year

Charlie I have a hard enough time communicating with complete sentences, let alone word puzzles.  ;) Also if wasn't for spell check you wouldn't be able to make anything out.

Love that little bit of reading... I'm often accused of wanted to escape from reality, but I know from past experiences backpacking that ditching the issues society causes us to have to fret about allows us to focus so clearly on the simple things in life, like eating, sleeping, staying alive, etc. It's not escape, but it is freedom. I suppose one has to be a little bit different to think spending days out in the wet and cold is wonderful, but I've always been a little bit different.

Interesting reading on the cruising life and dreams. I remember a few years ago sailing from Oriental out into Pamlico sound then back into the ditch to Belhaven NC. My brother and I sailed out of Belhaven the next day in bad weather, our next destination was Bath NC. It was in the 70's so not very cold, but there was a small craft advisory, so it was a bit rough in my little Belhaven 19. I don't remember the name of the water way going south from Belhaven then west towards Bath but it was very rough. The waves were rolling higher than the cabin and when I would surf to the bottom of the wave the spray would come over the cabin and wash my face. The water was cold along with the rain. My brother went below saying there's no need in both of us getting wet. My little boat had a Bimini, but no dodger. I remember thinking as I was sailing for around 4 hours in these conditions that this isn't to much fun. BUT I will have to say afterwards that evening tied up to the bath city dock with dry clothes on and a cup of coffee, it really was fun. Not at the time but after it was over with. That is still the best coffee I ever had. So in a very small way I can relate to the feeling of accomplishment after a miserable day on the water.

It turns out I had a leak in a propane line. After a long day of searching for the right fittings to connect the replacement "pigtail" to the propane system I found out that NOW the instant water heater is working like a champ, so that philosophical  point can be postponed for awhile.

Also, my galley sink faucet pretty much self destructed. Replaced with a nicer faucet ($$$). Took hours longer than anticipated because the supply line changes size THREE times. Stupid, really, and I was tempted to tear all the water lines out and start from scratch; but happily I stopped myself before committing to that much more extensive (and ultimately unnecessary) project.

And THEN the keel on my dinghy detached itself from the boat. Apparently I messed up somewhere along the way. From now on I will use epoxy AND screws to hold anything like that together.

I'm at anchor right now and just realized I left all my pots and pans at home. Either I return home tomorrow, stop in town someplace (Annapolis would be convenient) or I simplify my meal plans.

It's not poor planning, it's adventure!

""It's not poor planning, it's adventure!""     I really like  that attitude!!!! ;D    Grog to ya

You must be enjoying the "condo" feeling with all the extra room aboard.  Have fun!!

The boat feels HUGE in comparison. More systems, of course. I became a diesel mechanic for the first time a couple days ago when the motor stopped pumping cooling water (water pump belt). Happily I've spent a lot of time anchoring under sail in the smaller boat and it wasn't much more difficult in the bigger boat.

I'm hanging at the SSCA Gam in Annapolis this weekend (I was near Annapolis and gave Dave Skolnik of Auspicious a call and he said he was here and I should be too), though, and I am still about the smallest boat here.  Except for three boats in the 22-25 foot range that are rafted together up the river just a tad. I'm not sure if they are part of SSCA or not (I think they are). I'm so used to being the smallest, even being amongst the smallest seems oddly weird. I am within easy eyesight of aCappella, Karen and Jeffrey Siegel's trawler of http://Activecaptain.com fame. And I'm anchored right next to Beth and Evans' Hawk (http://www.bethandevans.com). Pretty rarefied company.

It looks like the electrical system is going to be something I have to check out. I came back from one of the seminars (someone said there was a storm cell enroute and I had the boat hatches open) and found battery 1, a brand spanking new battery BTW, just about completely drained. While I didn't throw all the breakers, nothing that was left on should have drained a group 24 battery so completely so quickly. Happily it is one of two and I've been using the 1/2/All/Off switch to generally keep the batteries in isolation. Something is pulling the amps. Gotta find out what.

I figure I need to find the space to put in some more  batteries, anyhow. This boat has more electronic gadgetry, but less battery capacity than s/v Godot. And LEDs. And a manual water pump (I suspect the existing decades old pump is putting a strain on the system as when it's running the lights all dramatically dim).

The diesel is running (and annoying); but charging up the low battery a bit. That is a nice advantage to the beast, not that running with a low load while being used as a generator is particularly healthy for it. So I'm considering what the best plan is to mount some solar panels. I'm thinking a stainless steel arch on the stern makes the most sense. heck, I could make (or buy) dinghy davits and mount on top of those; but I suspect a wind vane is in my future at some point and it would seem that davits and windvanes are not particularly compatible. Hopefully a solar arch wouldn't be too harmful (or too ugly). I'll probably think about it most of the winter before making a decision.

Speaking of solar panels, one of today's seminars was by the svHotwire folks (John Gambill & Libby Ellis). Perhaps unsurprisingly I found that while their presentation was informative, I am mostly pretty well educated in solar/wind generation just from reading the Sailfar forums. Something of a relief.  Nigel Calder's seminar on chart accuracy was somewhat sobering, though.

Hmmm...The battery seems to be taking a charge a little too fast. Now I think that perhaps it wasn't as drained as I feared and I should be looking for a loose wire.

Hard to beat solar. Try these guys for price. I've used them for my cottage and boat. May be cheaper out there but best deals I could find

www.sunelec.com

They do sell singles at a bit higher price and have a veried size inventory. Ya gotta call and let them know what size (40in x 30in type thing) and amp you need....they'll try to fit you out.

 

I own a 1979 Bayfield 29' cutter rig.  Anyone else out there with a Bayfield ?  I sail in Georgian Bay, Lake Huron.  I plan on sailing the North Channel this summer -any suggested routes are welcome -must see anchorages etc would be helpful from anyone.

Cheers
Moondancerl

Interesting coincidence...

Reading this thread, look out the companionway and a Bayfield 29 has anchored right next to me!

Can not read the name yet, but will check later.

Went and visited "Rainbow Connection" this morning.

Great couple, they have a dog that looks a little like Peter.  Doug's name is Bailey, did not catch their names  :P   Gave them a sticker and an invite.

Spending quality time on the boat working on a bunch of little projects...

Finally vented the Natures Head composting toilet outside into the deck anchor locker. I was temporarily just having it vent into the below decks chain locker, which was mostly OK; but once in awhile (after particularly heavy use) I'd get a whiff of something I generally prefer not to think about. I think finally finishing this project will take care of this occasional issue.

I removed the door to the head and replaced it with a curtain. Oh, sure, the door gave a more finished appearance and contributed to the illusion of privacy; but when open it intruded into the cabin way too much, and since it needs to remain open to get the benefit of ventilation through the fore-hatch, the curtain becomes more than a bit more practical. Besides, the door knob broke on the door. And it usually didn't shut right anyway.

I installed a new 110VAC electrical outlet on the front of the starboard bunk. Since I prefer to keep all AC power cords safely tucked inside conduit, this was more work than I anticipated. The new outlet will allow running the miniature oil filled radiator style portable heater I purchased without having to plug it into an extension cord. It also is in a convenient place for plugging in an electric blanket, if I go that route.

Regarding the heater, I stayed on the boat last night and the temps dropped to the low 30s. While the heater managed to keep the boat in the mid sixties during the evening, as it got later the inside temperature dropped into the mid-fifties. Not really horrible; but cooler than I'd like. I think for real winter temperatures the boat just won't qualify as the comfy warm cocoon that I desire. At least not with this little 700 watt heater. UNLESS, perhaps, I slide up the dividers between the galley/nav station and the main cabin area (they are really cool...I should take photos), and perhaps add a dividing curtain there as well. Then, with a smaller area to heat, I think the little heater might be able to keep up. If it doesn't work I can always buy a bigger portable heater (or install a built in heater), or better yet, just stay in the nicely heated girlfriend's house, with the very snugly and nicely heated girlfriend.

bet it feels great to get a few things done..
as to heat...I kinda like the last option   :o

Oh, yeah, a follow up to previous posts from a long time ago...

The propane water heater is history. I don't really miss it often. This also discourages taking a shower in the head. I use a pump up garden sprayer shower thing that CharlieJ recommended in another thread. Works great on deck, or below if privacy is an issue for some reason. I also sometimes use it to rinse dishes when washing up outside. BTW, a squirt bottle of a water/dish soap solution is a great way to save water.

I rewired the entire boat. Many of the wires were undersized (which I think is why the lights dimmed so dramatically when the water pump was pumping), corroded, or otherwise damaged. When it was all done I found one wire that hooked up directly to the positive terminal of one of the batteries just dangling in the bilge. I'm not sure what it was hooked up to; but it is my number one suspect for the battery drain issue I was experiencing. I love my new electrical panel, too.

The old wet head, holding tank, and all the associated poop (ha ha) that went with it has been torn out of the boat. The Natures Head is much nicer. Mostly. At least I won't have to worry about accidentally overfilling the thing. The resulting geyser with the old system is not one of my more pleasant experiences.

The air-conditioner was well rusted and didn't do a good job of cooling the boat, so I tore it out. It was wired with 14ga wire, anyhow, which I'm pretty sure is way too small. I may replace it eventually (I did run new electrical cable...10AWG, thank you...just in case when I had the boat torn apart); but because of a reconfiguration of the anchor tackle the old location is no longer viable as is. I don't know. I didn't miss it this summer; but as far as summers go it was pretty mild.

There is an anchor locker on deck that held all the anchor rode (small amount of chain and maybe 80 feet of line). I installed a chain pipe in order to open up the chain locker below decks. I now have 90' of 1/4" chain, and a couple hundred feet of plait rode. Way more than I need here in the Chesapeake; but I'm thinking to the future. If I choose to, there is plenty of room for a lot more chain. We'll see. I think 90' is a pretty decent amount. I also installed new bow rollers and a Rocna anchor. I like the Rocna, which digs in aggressively and lets me sleep much more comfortably than I did on the Danforth (which was undersized and prone to dragging if I wasn't very particular with how I set it). And the price seems a lot lower since the Chinese steel scandal (reportedly corrected).

Lots of little reconfigurations that aren't of much interest.

I am pretty much happy with the setup as a live-aboard now. Of course, a woman entered my life and I spend a disproportionate amount of time at her place. Enough were I don't have to worry about paying a live-aboard premium at the marina as I'm only at the boat a couple nights a week. A bonus is the new gal seems to enjoy sailing. Even when I take her out in uncomfortable conditions.  She just might come along when I make my break in a couple years.

Oh, yea, about the "couple years"...it's been a "couple years" for several years now. I think I need to lock down a date, and soon. I'm thinking November 1st, 2015 as my get out of dodge deadline. Earlier is better.

Quote from: Godot on November 04, 2013, 06:08:17 PM
Oh, yeah, a follow up to previous posts from a long time ago...

Good to read your update. Congrats on your improvements.

Quote
I am pretty much happy with the setup as a live-aboard now. Of course, a woman entered my life and I spend a disproportionate amount of time at her place. Enough were I don't have to worry about paying a live-aboard premium at the marina as I'm only at the boat a couple nights a week. A bonus is the new gal seems to enjoy sailing. Even when I take her out in uncomfortable conditions. 

Seems like the best of both worlds.  :)

I spent a fair amount of time aboard over the winter. I put up the cockpit enclosure which helps hold the heat in, but it really isn't designed to handle snow. So, in November I quickly built a simple PVC and tarp cover...

(http://b29seeker.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/BoatInSnow2.1.jpg) (http://b29seeker.net/snow-and-the-chuck-wagon-boat/)

It worked pretty well all winter long, and I was just about to take it down (hopefully we are past the days of significant snow).

I've been on the boat the past several days. Last night we got gale conditions. After not having any trouble all winter long, the dang frame separated in the high winds last night.

Ah, well. I'm just waiting for the temperature to get above freezing (it was well into the sixties the past couple days...what the heck?...Brrrr....) and I guess I'll have no choice but to put it away. I guess the tarp knew it was time to come down.

Interestingly, I had absolutely no faith that it would hold together all winter. I didn't bold or glue the joints, and the only thing holding the frame together is friction with tie wraps attaching the tarp. I  suspect a couple more bows would have been in order; but I had to stuff everything in my Yaris (I miss my truck), so I kept parts to a minimum. I can't complain. It worked well and was super cheap. Next winter I think I'll spend some time figuring out a better way to get in and off the boat, though. Pulling the tarp back and sneaking under was sometimes difficult, and perhaps a smidge dangerous.

I'm leaving on a month long sailing adventure four weeks from today (as in Thursday...I just realized the clock ticked over to Friday a few minutes ago). New punch list as of today...

• Empty and recharge head (do a few days before departure)
• Run safety lines (instead of deck level jack lines, I'm planning on running port and starboard lines pulpit to pulpit, and through a ring at chest level on the outer shrouds...it means unhooking and rehooking when going forward; but I think it will feel more secure).
• Strap the spare pee bucket (I have a spare bucket for the Composter, and don't need it bouncing around the cabin underway. The thought of a pee filled projectile that could open up at any moment is depressing).
• Replace main halyard and move the old halyard to the worn out topping lift (done!)
• Grease winches
• Replace broken head faucet. Or alternately cap off water line in head.
• Re-caulk a leaking stanchion.
• Install new mast boot (the trouble with keel stepped masts. Sadly, off the shelf mast boots aren't sized right).
• Change diesel oil, filter, and fuel filter (a few days before departure)
• Check battery electrolyte levels (done!)

Quote from: Godot on June 27, 2014, 12:25:36 AM

I'm leaving on a month long sailing adventure four weeks from today

Very cool.

(http://sailfar.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10005/smiley15.gif)

Quote from: Captain Smollett on June 27, 2014, 10:11:48 AM

Quote from: Godot on June 27, 2014, 12:25:36 AM

I'm leaving on a month long sailing adventure four weeks from today

Very cool.

(http://sailfar.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10005/smiley15.gif)

What's cooler is I just looked at the calendar and realized it is THREE weeks not four. Does put some pressure on getting things done, though.

Countdown to departure...Four days.

Four. Days.

Happily most of the work is done. I just need to seriously clean the boat and load provisions.

Gettin' exited!

Have fun....don't be shy with the camera!

looking farward to seeing pictures and reading about your adventure

What's the good of hanging out here if I can't live vicariously through others?  8) Take loads of pictures and keep us updated on your progress!

Fair Winds....and pictures...

I'll open a new thread once we depart (well, when we're safely in harbor with internet access). I'll save this thread to mostly talk about the boat itself and upgrades and changes I'm making.

Planned departure is Noon tomorrow. Realistic departure is a couple hours later. A six hour sail (or more likely motor...not much wind forecast) will get us situated for the C&D canal on Friday.

Yahoo!

SUPER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Have fun. Updates AND pictures!!!!

Also wishing you fair winds, Adam.  :)

It's been a long time since I've given an update.

Boat work slowly continues. But I sail very frequently. No dock queen is Seeker!

A recap (so there is no need to read back to the beginning, especially since not everything is documented there).:

What's been done:


• Seeker has been rewired. Most of the lights are now LED.
• The propane hot water heater has been removed. The discussion regards this was early in this thread; but the decision has not been regretted. The shower fixture has been removed from the head as well.
• The holding tank and wet toilet were removed replaced with a Nature's Head composting toilet. This is a great, great upgrade! If a composter will fit on your boat (it's much larger than a typical marine toilet), I'd recommend it when the time comes to replace your existing toilet.
• The Air Conditioning is long gone, and since I'm effectively not living aboard at the moment (ah, love), I'm rarely missing it. If I ever end up as a full time, at the dock, working live aboard this may be replaced. Or not. The wiring is in place should I go for it. Doesn't seem likely at the moment, though.
• The cabin table looked nice; but it frequently got in the way and was more annoyance than anything, so it is now gone (95% percent of the time this is a great improvement, though I miss the table on occasion).
• I've switched from my little homemade plywood dinghy (it went with my Seafarer several years ago) to a 10' Porta-Bote that fits on deck OK (I'm still figuring the best way to assemble and disassemble it on the small deck...I can do it; but there has got to be a better way).
• I've installed three 20 watt solar panels on the starboard life lines, that work so well I'm planning on installing another three on the port rails (this supplements the one 20 watter that lives on the pushpit).
• All the running rigging has now been replaced.
• I pulled the aluminum diesel tank and had the lower three inches removed, which sealed up the pinhole leaks I had while getting the tank out of the bilge water (which likely caused the pinhole leaks).
• I replaced all the fuel and water lines on the motor, as well as the alternator. Currently, outside of a little occasional smoke, the motor seems to be running rather strong.
• The seat backs in the main cabin have been removed. I will likely get something setup on the port bunk eventually; but the original flip up backs were too much of a pain that allowed too little seat to sit on. The starboard bunk is set up as a permanent double.
• Lots and lots of little repairs that I can't even think of right now

What needs to be done:


• I hauled her out last week for a quick seven days to get the bottom painted. Looks pretty good; but there are a couple dozen blisters in the keel. I don't think it is a big deal; but the next time I haul the boat will be for a winter (not this winter, maybe next), and I'll get those blisters opened up and drained for eventual repair. I really don't think they are a major concern; but I'll take care of them when I can.


• The next long haul will also see me permanently sealing the now unused head intake/dump holes, and very likely the knot sensor hole. It's a nice instrument; but it is inconsistent, and now the very old display is going wonky.


• The old Datamarine wind speed indicator is also not working. When I next pull the mast I'll see if it can be repaired affordably. If not it can't be replaced affordably, so I'll probably dump it. It's nice to know how strong the wind is for bragging rights; but honestly it isn't that big a deal. If yous outs in it, yous gots ta deal wit' it!


• The standing rigging is due for replacement. I figure, not counting pulling and stepping the mast, I can get that all done for less than a grand. When the mast gets pulled, I'll replace the mast head light with a tri-color/anchor LED light, and the steaming light with an LED as well. I'll add an additional flag halyard (or at least the pulley, so I have the option). And maybe mast stairs.


• Before heading over the horizon, the sails should probably be replaced. At least the mainsail should be. A quick quote on that shows I can do a mainsail for probably $1500, plus or minus a couple hundred based on features and sail loft. I am still trying to decide whether to go with full battens, no battens, or half full/half partial. I was leaning towards no battens; but the sail makers I've talked to seem appalled at the idea. Full battens might be the way to go. I understand sails last longer that way. I've currently got half full/half partial. I don't see anything to really recommend that standard setup. A third reef is definitely going to be part of any new sail. I'm planning on some kind of stack pack system, as well (a permanently mounted sail cover that integrates with the lazy jacks and closes from the top).


• I really think I need a boom vang.


• I really, really want to mount a winch on the mast. I'm bothered by having the main halyard led aft. I simply don't understand how people think it is better or safer, as trips to the mast seem to be necessary every time I raise, lower, or reef the main. Heck, at the very least the sail ties have to be put on and off, not to mention the cover. The luff reefing cringle still needs to be tied down (or released) when the wind increases/decreases (unless a rats nest reefing lines to the cockpit mishmash is installed). Besides, I'd really like to be able to use the spinnaker halyard that's at the mast to haul up the porta-bote, and that requires a winch. Interestingly, the topping lift is currently controlled at the mast, and I think I'd like to lead that line aft. Go figure.


• The stitching in the dodger is rather rotted. It needs to be restitched. I'm hoping the inexpensive "Heavy Duty" Singer machine I have at home will handle the job.


• I'm leaning towards installing refrigeration. The ice box has pitiful insulation and ice is a pain to deal with, so I'm thinking of installing at least two inches of additional insulation around the interior of the box (maybe three, although that will really decrease the size...perhaps not a bad thing), and adding one of the conversion kits. The box will be much smaller; but without the need for ice I figure the usable space will be fine. I've tried to be happy without a cold box; but I still keep buying ice so obviously this is something I want.


• The cabin cushions need to be recovered.

So... I'm well into getting the boat the way I want it; but there is a long way left to go.

Quote from: Godot on November 04, 2013, 06:08:17 PM

Oh, yea, about the "couple years"...it's been a "couple years" for several years now. I think I need to lock down a date, and soon. I'm thinking November 1st, 2015 as my get out of dodge deadline. Earlier is better.

Apparently I'm fatally optimistic. November 1st? This year? Dreaming! How's about April 2018?

Sounds like you've been busy

Just a point- I've been quite happy with a battenless main sail. ,But the third reef is a very good idea. I call mine, 1st, 2nd, and ohmygawd   :D

Agree completely with main halyard at mast, although the Stackpack may change things. But I'm bowing to increasing age, and running my jib halyard aft, along with a down haul. Then I don't have to go to the bow to douse the jib. I know,, a roller furler would help that but my head sails are in too good a condition to scrap. Main is still no problem.

I've become fond of roller furling. I'm happy to keep adjusting my sails because it is just that easy. It hasn't failed me yet, although that does remind me that I really should find out what the maintenance needs (fresh water wash, inspection, lube?) are because I haven't done anything.

Existing sails are often modified to use with roller furling. Mine where. They work fine. But roller furling is expensive, and somewhat limiting in being able to change sails (I have a hank on storm jib; but don't see how I could fly it). If the boat came with hank on sails, I likely wouldn't have changed over (especially since with a cutter rig I have TWO headsails).

In the post Cyric30's Search for a Boat (http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=4192.msg49235#msg49235), Jim_ME brought up some counterpoints to some things I mentioned. I have intending to respond for the better part of a year; but work has been killing me. I finally have time. Instead of polluting Cyric's thread, especially given the dated response, I thought I'd move this part of the convo here.

Quote from: Jim_ME on December 14, 2014, 08:38:22 PM
So when Adam [Godot] joined in this discussion, pointing out that the Tartan 30 performance specifications are very similar to those of his boat, I do want to say that my advice to you [Joe] is not intended as a critique of his choice of boat.

Whew! That's a relief!

Quote from: Jim_ME on December 14, 2014, 08:38:22 PM
I do seem to place more stock and weight on the performance specs, especially the Capsize Ratio and the Motion Comfort figures than he does. I do believe that when your boat design has these qualities, it is of benefit in more situations than at the kinds of conditions that one would encounter when rounding Cape Horn.

Just to be clear, I use the mental image of Cape Horn in place of boring statements like "Storm conditions" or some such yawner. Also, just to make a point, my opinions are based on my experiences, which in fact do not include storm conditions, Cape Horn, or anything close. They do include sailing in wind well into the thirties (near gale) with probably five to six feet, steep Chesapeake seas (I don't know...I'm guessing. The way I remember it they where moving mountains; but I don't have much of an eye for it), thirty knot winds with square seas (wind and current opposed in shallow water) in the Delaware, and an uncomfortable winter Gulf Stream crossing in a 40' Halberg-Rassy, and similar coastal experience. My opinion is also based on talking to a lot of often times contradictory sailors and reading a lot of often times contradictory books.

Quote from: Jim_ME on December 14, 2014, 08:38:22 PM
For example, I can remember taking my Typhoon out and enjoying sailing in the harbor in conditions that would make other boats (of that size or even larger) uncomfortable, and when I would pass some of them heading back in. There were times when I would take people out that were new to sailing and more sensitive to the motions of a sailboat, and I often believed that it was more comfortable for them. (I especially noticed this after selling the Typhoon 19 and taking people out in the my Rhodes Mariner 19.)

My boat LOVES heavier conditions, despite what a CSF or MCR might indicate. She's not squirrely in the least, and really comes alive when the wind is up. The wider beam keeps her on her feet, and her motion just isn't that extreme, except when sailing dead downwind with broadside seas when, without a stabilizing wind force in the sails, she develops an uncomfortable roll. It somewhat makes up for her rather lethargic conditions in lighter wind (we were sailing in company with Lauren's Mom and Step Dad on their Catalina 25 in light winds one day...to say I was embarrassed is a bit of an understatement). This isn't to say that the motion is always pleasant, just that it isn't overly unpleasant. The head (all the way in the bow of the boat) has even been successfully used underway in noticeable weather.

Quote from: Jim_ME on December 14, 2014, 08:38:22 PM
Adam has written that he would be okay taking his boat on a voyage across an ocean, and I admire that kind of spirit of adventure, but if I am being candid, I would have to confess that I would be interested to hear how he felt after being out in the kinds of conditions that boats with more favorable performance attributes have are reported to be better suited (or more optimized) for.

I very much want to cross an ocean someday, and believe I eventually will. I'm not sure what it is that draws me to the idea...discomfort, danger, isolation are all well known aspects of long distance short handed sailing. I think I am just drawn to difficult things.

I have a never been on a long passage in a better rated SailFar sized boat in snotty conditions, so I can't compare. But I don't think any SailFar sized boat is going to feel like a luxury liner at sea in heavy conditions. Some might be somewhat more comfortable; but no matter the boat, you are likely to get beat up.

So, with that all out of the way, my thoughts on the frequently discussed CSF and MCR.

The CSF, born out of the '79 Fastnet Race disaster, was an attempt to quantify the risk of capsize in a simplified formula. The formula only considers two criteria: Beam and Dispacement. CSF = Beam / (Displacement/64.2)^1/3. The general rule is that 2.0 or below is considered relatively safe for offshore sailing with lower numbers being better. Several yacht races use the 2.0 as the cutoff level. There are several important things that the CSF fails to consider. Specifically hull shape and ballast location. The frequently stated absurd example of a boat with its' balast being placed entirely at the top of the mast, while having a CSF exactly the same as a boat with similar beam and balast but placed six feet under the keel would clearly have very different stabilities. So, with that obviously unlikely comparison we can sort of get a feel for the limitations of the formula. That's not to say it is without value. I think it has a lot of value. Merely that it is not the whole picture.

It is with some satisfaction that Seeker makes the csf 2.0 grade if I use the displacement (8500#) that the former Bayfield president Jake Rogerson suggests is accurate (resulting in a CSF of 1.99) than the advertised displacement (8000#) which is very slightly above 2.0 (2.03), or the designed displacement (7100# which brings the CSF all the way up to 2.12). According to a remarkably balance Canadian Yachting article (http://www.canadianyachting.ca/boat-reviews/sail/925-bayfield-29-sail-boat-review), the boat is built heavier and stronger than designed, and it was designed as an offshore boat.

The Motion Comfort Ratio (http://"http://www.tedbrewer.com/yachtdesign.html") (MCR or just CR) was invented by Ted Brewer as a "tonque-in-cheek" (his words) measure of motion comfort, that is reasonably useful comparing two otherwise similar boats. The formula is "Displacement in pounds / (.65 x (.7 LWL + .3 LOA) x B^1.333)." Plugging the numbers into some of the Sailfar favorites we get:

So, my Bayfield compares comperably with the well regarded Pearson Ariel and less so with the others, although it is not clear to me how big a difference I can expect with the differences in value.

To quote Ted Brewer again, though...

Quote from: Ted Brewer
Do consider, though, that a sailing yacht heeled by a good breeze will have a much steadier motion than one bobbing up and down in light airs on left over swells from yesterday's blow; also that the typical summertime coastal cruiser will rarely encounter the wind and seas that an ocean going yacht will meet. Nor will one human stomach keep down what another stomach will handle with relish, or with mustard and pickles for that matter! It is all relative.

Now, let's consider what it is that I was looking for in a sailboat.

• Reasonably easy to single hand. (I've done a bunch of single handing...except for docking, which is tricky with or without crew, it has not been an issue)
• Wouldn't break me in marina costs (usually determined by LOA, so under 30') (Perfectly placed to keep me on the moderate priced dock)
• Solid, strong, and seaworthy (overbuilt, really. Very solid.)
• Comfortable for a newly divorced bachelor to live aboard while still earning a living (never tested. By the time I was finally out of my house, I was comfortably living with a new gal)
• Comfortable enough to take on a new first mate! (The new gal seems very comfortable with the space aboard on our one month cruise).
• Shallow draft to better enjoy the Chesapeake, and eventually Bahamian waters (I have only run aground twice...once in Barnegat Bay through a frequently shifting channel, and another when I underestimated the tide range and the boat settled at night...not bad given where we've been.
• Affordable to purchase, outfit, and maintain (very subjective...I spent a little more than I should have, probably, which is delaying the eventual departure; but I payed a lot less than I could have.
• Attractive (a very personal thing that to my eye Seeker excels at beautifully)

Boats are compromises. Other boats may be better suited to live-aboard life, or heavy weather, or entertainment value, or cruisability, or stowage, or affordability, or speed, or shear sexiness. But, overall, I think Seeker's compromises suit me fairly well.

Again, I wouldn't want to ride out a storm (http://www.spc.noaa.gov/faq/tornado/beaufort.html) on her. I wouldn't want ride out a storm on any boat. I can't imagine that ever being comfortable no matter the CSF or MCR. But I think she is perfectly capable of it. She heaves to well. She is quite strong. I've sailed her in winds around 35 knots in, if not comfort, at least solid control (I greatly desired a third reef at this point, as Seeker was certainly overpowered). This year I hove to in a thunderstorm, double reefed, with winds reportedly gusting to forty (minor damage was sustained when I didn't tie up the bunt, which subsequently filled with water in the deluge).

I think my heavy weather tactics will include heaving to whenever the sustained wind is staying north of thirty, unless I need to maneuver to avoid land or something. This depends on point of sail, of course, so I may stretch the envelope heading downwind if the seas aren't making things too unpleasant, and may shrink the envelope if sea conditions are particularly unpleasant. It's worth noting that in the '79 Fastnet race, of the 26 yachts that chose to heave to (my preferred heavy weather tactic), none of them experienced a knockdown or serious damage. At some point in the envelope I haven't explored yet I would probably stream my sea anchor (a several year old, mint condition Fiorentino (http://www.para-anchor.com/) 6' Para-Anchor (http://www.para-anchor.com/pro.offsanchor.html) that I bought off a long time world cruiser who had never felt the need to deploy it).

In the end, based on my experience so far, I believe Seeker to be more than safe enough for anything less than extreme adventure sailing or daysailing in a hurricane. She should be reasonably comfortable sailing in most normal conditions (say, up to thirty knots, assuming she isn't being broadsided by waves), and quite comfortable hove to in much stronger winds (I haven't hit the envelope yet where she isn't comfortable, relatively speaking, hove to).

Very well said.. Many years ago I had intended to be a world voyager. Life kinda changed my plans.

Totally content now to stay in Gulf of Mexico ( which CAN be VERY nasty) around the coast, and crossings to the Bahamas..

if I can make those, It's enough

Quote from: Godot on August 31, 2015, 05:46:23 PM

Quote from: Godot on November 04, 2013, 06:08:17 PM

Oh, yea, about the "couple years"...it's been a "couple years" for several years now. I think I need to lock down a date, and soon. I'm thinking November 1st, 2015 as my get out of dodge deadline. Earlier is better.

Apparently I'm fatally optimistic. November 1st? This year? Dreaming! How's about April 2018?

Fatal optimism appears to be my downfall. Work on the boat is much slower than hoped. Of course. Getting married threw an interesting (but not fatal) wrench into the works. And a careful look at my finances was somewhat enlightening.

Wifey is still OK, if not truly enthusiastic, about my taking an extended sailing trip sometime in the foreseeable  future (at this point...five to seven years out...further details below). It was an understanding we had when we first started dating. A long sailing trip is a dream, and I fully intend to pursue it. It's not quite clear, yet, if she will come with me for the whole trip or meet me at various locations for a few weeks sailing at a time. Plenty of time to figure that stuff out. She has similar dreams, too, but they involve extended travel in a land yacht (RV). I see no reason we can't do both.

Looking at finances, I've actually done fairly well over the past seven or eight years. Remarkable, really, as at one point I was so far underwater I thought if it wasn't for my little 24' Seafarer I could have ended up living out of my car.  I avoided that near homelessness scenario, and things have gone well enough since then (with a ridiculous amount of effort) that I have recently realized that I can see the point of financial independence (defined as having enough passive income to cover expenses) from here. I should be able to get there in five to seven years. Then I shouldn't have to worry about going back to work. I'll be 53-55 years old. A fairly early retirement. If I leave on the trip sooner, I will definitely need to go back to work, and likely for less pay and for more years than if I just push through. So, I'll stay the course for now. Honestly, it was easier to plan on a few years off when I was in my thirties, with a lot less fear of being destitute with still a lot of working life ahead of me. I missed that window, but this new future window looks much more solid.

In the meantime, I finally broke down and winterized the engine. It's snowing. Winter is here. Oh, well. I'm going to need to do some engine work anyhow. It is smoking a bit more than I like. I'm not sure what is going on; but black smoke means it is running too rich. I replaced the rusted out exhaust elbow, but that didn't help much (though it needed to be done). I suspect it is the injectors. But I haven't adjusted the valves since I have owned the boat, so that could be part of it. I am considering a whole top overhaul. We'll see. I probably want to do something before I finally hit my freedom date.

Besides regular maintenance, I think the only upgrade to the boat since the last lengthy list was that I made the Starboard berth a permanent double, with new five inch foam and a pretty decent new cover. I also installed a couple new drawers under the now permanent bunk extension. I can't complain.

It's been more than two years since I have hauled the boat. I probably should have done it this winter; but I'm not quite ready to do all the major work I have planned on my next long haul. Depending on how the bottom paint is holding up, I may haul for a week next summer or go for a long haul next winter. We'll see.

This winter I think I'm going to work on the port settee, making it slightly wider and give it new cushions. I think I'll eventually get a new backrest on it so that it is a bit more comfortable has a couch. I'm sure I'll come up with a few other little projects, too.

Great update.
Well written...
Keep the faith....

Looking from the other edge of the age line, I would suggest that you get the Bayfield into basic safe and reliable shape, and take a series of trips to various areas, and become acclimated to the togetherness in quantity.

Getting out there with a less than perfect boat, so long as it is safe, will help to smooth the transition.  I call that unplugging, rather than cutting the cord. 

I do envy you being young enough to be strong and flexible enough to make the lifestyle change.  I am still in quite good health for my age, but strength and agility are sliding.  I could have done it when I retired, at 62, but unfortunately, my wife gets seasick in 6 inch waves.  I did a lot of solo up until last year.  My boat did not get in the water this year, maybe better luck next year.

Keep your eye on the goal, and get out sailing!

Norman

Actually, I sailed a fair amount this year. Two trips where over ten days, with probably a half dozen additional overnights. Plus more day-sailing than is typical for me. Last year the boat barely left the dock. This year she could barely sit still for a week. My last sail was just two weeks ago.

Heck, I was aboard today, in the snow, sipping on a tea and doing some work on the laptop. Yup. Seeker is getting a lot of use.

Outside of being fatter than I like, I'm quite reasonably healthy. But I'm afraid for my longevity. My father died at 59, and his father died at 59. I can't rule out that I will go the same way, though I like to think I'm taking somewhat better care of myself. Still...the earlier I can get out of the rat race, the better. And the sooner I can just go sailing for a long time, the more likely the body will cooperate and let me. I really wish I could have made it when I was in my thirties; but I made my choices and I'll probably be OK in the end. Heck, even if I'm out cruising in my fifties, I will probably be on the younger side of average.

Wifey and I did spend a month aboard a few years ago. The first couple weeks, and the first week in particular, almost did us in. But it got better as time went on. I just know I need to slow down when she is aboard. Sail shorter legs, when possible, and when arriving in a harbor plan on staying at least two or three days. My tendency is to push on to the next destination. Her's is to take it slower and enjoy where we are. She is probably right.

Offshore legs are not her thing. I like them a lot. We'll find a compromise, even if it means she has to meet me periodically.

Is it spring yet?

Plans for Winter 2018/19

I'm going to pull the boat out of the water for the first winter in quite some time.

The plan (subject to the whims of nature, family, work and finances) is...

Mast Work

• Pull the mast
• Replace mast electrical wiring
• Replace antenna cable (seems OK; but I don't want to pull the mast again)
• Replace antenna (Ditto)
• Install LED tri-color light
• Install LED Steaming light and perhaps a deck light (LEDs in this capacity are not for battery saving, as the engine would be running, but rather to minimize the need to replace a burned out bulb)
• Fix, if possible, the busted anemometer (if not possible, I'll just remove it...It's too costly to replace)
• Replace any worn sheaves
• Install an extra halyard
• Paint the mast
• Replace the flag halyards
• Replace the probably 36 year old standing rigging!!!
• Install a winch on the mast so I can do my Mainsail handling at the mast (I really can't stand the halyards being run to the cockpit...it seems I always need to go to the mast anyhow when raising, lowering or reefing the sail, and it would be a lot easier to do it in one trip instead of constantly going back and forth)
• On raising the mast, replace the mast wedges (keel stepped mast) with Spartite. Hopefully that will help keep my bunk dry when it rains hard! Also, a new mast boot.
• Probably more stuff I'm not thinking of.

Engine Work

• Replace Engine Mounts
• Replace Stuffing Box hose and repack Stuffing Box
• Probably replace Fuel Injectors...I'm chasing down a mild smoking issue
• Fully service, clean, and inspect the motor

Cabin Work

• Completely empty out and do a deep, deep clean

Hull work

• Seal up unused thru-hulls
• Finally get some fresh bottom paint on the hull

That's a substantial list Adam. Once hauled tho, if you're motivated it may surprise you how good it goes.
But then, boats are always full of surprises 😄
Hope yours are good ones and things go great!

Time moves on. It seems I stand still.

My early retirement plans (53-55 year old) still look doable; but they depend on a lot of things. I lost my job a couple years ago which threw a wrench into a lot of plans. Two jobs later I am more or less back on my feet. I've got a lot of irons in the fire that I still hope, in two to four years, to call it a career. If things don't work out as planned, I should be OK by 57. I can't see how I wouldn't be. But since I've been posting my plans here, life has thrown me a lot of curve balls. Remember the old saw "Man plans, God laughs." Living proof.

That said, Seeker is still slowly getting better. I thought I had another thread with a detailed list of projects. I can't find it. This thread also has lists so we will move from here.

Last we spoke in October 2018 I was planning on pulling the mast. Well...shortly after I lost my job and had to get a little cautious with the bank account, so I skipped all mast work. I hope to do that this winter. We'll see. I'd really, really, really like to replace the standing rigging and probably the chain plates. Over the past few years I know of two boats that have lost their masts. Old boats. But mine is getting old, too.

On my last (two) winter haul I did manage to pull the motor, replace the cutlass bearing, replace the engine mounts, repack the stuffing box, service the fuel injectors, replace some hoses, etc... The motor still smokes a little, but honestly probably not so bad for a nearly forty year old mechanical monster. I think I will get around to adjusting the valves soon. My engine room soundproofing was pretty much trashed so I tried a sound dampening paint. It's not exactly quiet; but I think it works as well as my old torn up soundproofing, and is easier to deal with, so I will just run with this.

I bought a bigger Balmer alternator (70amps) and regulator which I think will make power issues less of a concern. There was a sale on them that I couldn't pass up as it managed to turn an obscenely expensive project into a mere painfully expensive project. I need to build a better battery box and do a few other chores before I get around to hooking that up; but that should come this year.

While talking about the electrical system I replaced the old 30amp power inlet with a SmartPlug. Over the past twenty years I've seen three boats with various amounts of damage from the old style inlets. Granted, the boats are old so the inlets may have been as well; but I've heard great things about the SmartPlug system, and they were on sale, so... At the same time I also installed a galvanic isolator.

When hauled last I did manage to glass over all the unused thru-hulls. I feel much better about them. I also removed the old, broken instruments from the cockpit and glassed over those hulls while I was at it, as well as doing a little bit more cockpit repair. Looks great!

My automatic bilge pump used to pump in to the galley sink drain. This meant I could never close that thru-hull, which seemed less than ideal. I installed a new above the waterline thru-hull in the stern and now route the pump to that. I'm happier this way.

Sadly, my dodger, which was probably past its' life expectancy when I bought the boat almost a decade ago, pretty much self destructed on me. I could literally put my finger through the cloth, and the "glass" was disintegrating without any of my help. So, I am finally going to try and build the hard dodger I've been envisioning for the past many years. I know I can build a dodger. I'm not sure I can build it and have it look good. If my effort isn't successful I'll either try to sew up a duplicate of the old one, or more than likely just hire it out. It's pricey; but I have to balance my time against money. I need the time to sail too!

I really should be buying new sails sometime soon. I'm trying to hold off another year, though.

Not this year, but maybe in the next two is a galley rebuild. I was looking forward to exchanging my propane stove for a non-pressurized Origo alcohol stove (I know it's not as nice to cook on as Propane...it just seems simpler to me), but Origo decided to discontinue those stoves, sadly. Still, I want a stove on gimbals. I'm also looking at increasing galley storage and counter space significantly by sacrificing the Starboard quarterberth (it'll give me a bigger cockpit locker, too). I might even be able to shoehorn a decent fridge into that space (I'm a lot older than when I started this adventure...there are certain luxuries I just want).

And that is pretty much it. If I can do all that in the next three years I will have essentially transformed Seeker into my vision. I mean, there are other projects I'd like to do; but they are strictly nice-to-haves that I'll do when I feel like it.