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Cruisin' Threads => Boat Bits => Topic started by: Bob J (ex-misfits) on May 07, 2017, 03:15:50 PM

Title: Electric Drive
Post by: Bob J (ex-misfits) on May 07, 2017, 03:15:50 PM
 I got the kit over the winter, been thinking about it & have finally decided on how to execute the install. Tried to post a picture of the goodies but keep getting a file to big error message. How do others post pictures here?

Bob
Title: Re: Electric Drive
Post by: CharlieJ on May 07, 2017, 04:22:32 PM
click on "attachments and Other opions" just under the posting block

Go down to Attach

use Browse to find your pic

This is if on your hard drive


OR

in the little icons above the posting block - lower left icon is "insert a image" Click on that and insert the location of the image between the coding there. Use that if image is NOT on your drive

Title: Re: Electric Drive
Post by: Bob J (ex-misfits) on May 08, 2017, 03:54:59 PM
No cigar CJ. I still end up with file's to big error.
Go figure...
Title: Re: Electric Drive
Post by: CharlieJ on May 08, 2017, 04:00:08 PM
Download a program such as Paint.net (free) and downsize it. I commonly set mine at 800 x whatever pixels, which is large enough for computer screens
Title: Re: Electric Drive
Post by: SeaHusky on May 08, 2017, 04:47:56 PM
I use photo bucket. Free and gives you a direct link to copy/paste.
Title: Re: Electric Drive
Post by: Bob J (ex-misfits) on May 08, 2017, 06:54:48 PM
This isn't going to happen.
Sorry guys
Title: Re: Electric Drive
Post by: ralay on May 08, 2017, 07:57:54 PM
This is why all my sailing photos wind up on Facebook.  I'm waaaay too lazy to mess with uploading everything to another hosting site then coming back to post it here.
Title: Re: Electric Drive
Post by: CharlieJ on May 08, 2017, 09:40:13 PM
??? Why?  They start on your drive. Takes two minutes to resize. No biggie
Title: Re: Electric Drive
Post by: ralay on May 09, 2017, 10:45:29 AM
My photos are on my phone, which is also my exclusive source of internet.  I think that's probably common for folks who are "out there."

Resizing photos or uploading them to image hosting sites and then reposting them to sailfar might take you 2 minutes on your laptop/desktop at your house with unlimited wifi, but it's really cumbersome to do on my phone.  I can put a photo on FB in about three clicks of big buttons.

Now I TOTALLY understand why the folks bottom lining this site don't want to have to host a bunch of images.  Not criticizing that at all.  I only bring it up because I think it's relevant to the other thread where we were talking about why there aren't more folks "out there" on here. 

I think sites without a really mobile friendly interface are inadvertently selecting against participation by folks actively out adventuring.
Title: Re: Electric Drive
Post by: CharlieJ on May 09, 2017, 12:15:03 PM
a quick question- can you put them in the SailFar Gallery? I haven't added a photo there in a good while so don't know
Title: Re: Electric Drive
Post by: ralay on May 09, 2017, 04:04:49 PM
Are you asking me, CJ, or misfits?

Title: Re: Electric Drive
Post by: CharlieJ on May 09, 2017, 05:07:13 PM
LOL You. I've never tried to post a pic from my phone, so I don't know if it would work., or how. I know folks do it to various forums but I really don't know how.

Oh- and I have a personal question for you if you'll text or email- or call
:)
Title: Re: Electric Drive
Post by: Bob J (ex-misfits) on May 09, 2017, 06:50:15 PM
Whether my phone or pc, same result.
Most photos are twice the kb? that are allowed as an individual photo but you can post up to four pictures long as it doesn't exceed four times that of an individual photo.
Sorry, doesn't make sense.....

Title: Re: Electric Drive
Post by: CapnK on May 10, 2017, 12:07:50 PM
Photos can now be 4mb in file size. Do we need more? See post in Site Info area... (http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=4851.0)
Title: Re: Electric Drive
Post by: Bob J (ex-misfits) on May 10, 2017, 05:33:53 PM
These are just the components. Now I get to fabricate a gear reduction & put it all together.
Title: Re: Electric Drive
Post by: ralay on May 10, 2017, 05:42:58 PM
What all are we looking at?  And what are your plans for tying it all together? 
Title: Re: Electric Drive
Post by: Bob J (ex-misfits) on May 11, 2017, 05:05:28 PM
It's a 10 kw, 48 volt brushless electric motor that replaces an internal combustion motor for auxiliary propulsion. Once I get it installed I'll post a couple of pictures.
Title: Re: Electric Drive
Post by: ralay on May 12, 2017, 08:43:51 AM
What's the component on the right that looks like it has a big heat sink? 
Title: Re: Electric Drive
Post by: Owly055 on May 13, 2017, 03:24:58 PM
Quote from: misfits on May 11, 2017, 05:05:28 PM
It's a 10 kw, 48 volt brushless electric motor that replaces an internal combustion motor for auxiliary propulsion. Once I get it installed I'll post a couple of pictures.

This looks to me like an AC induction motor of some sort with an inverter to drive it..... Is that more or less correct?

     I look forward to hearing the real world performance of these electric drives.  I've long felt that the marketing claims are more than a little bit outrageous I could see where on an extended voyage in a multihull where there is lots of room for solar panels, just a kt or two when in light airs could be really nice.

     One thing I've learned this year that I didn't know about batteries is that the total KWH in and out governs the life expectancy of batteries, regardless of the depth of discharge.... assuming deep cycle batteries of course.   That means two things to me.  Firstly, that it pays to use power directly off the solar panels as much as possible, secondly that it makes sense to use as few batteries as you can get away with, and use them hard so you can benefit from the warranty, because warranties are based on time, not usage.   Thirdly, that it makes sense to store energy in ways other than batteries............  My favorite example is to make ice to refrigerate with, as opposed to running a refrigerator off batteries.   
     If I sound like a cheapskate........ well the truth is that I am.   It goes hand in hand with being poor   ;-)

                                                                          H.W.
Title: Re: Electric Drive
Post by: Bob J (ex-misfits) on May 14, 2017, 07:36:38 AM
The device on the heat sink is a sevcon motor controller. The motor itself is a 3 phase ac motor. The controller input is 48 volts dc.
Yea some of the claims/propaganda regarding range are not sound & based on junk.
Conservative range estimate with 220 ah fla battery bank at 50% dod, 3 hours @ 3.5 knots. If you add some solar or run a 2000 watt generator in hybrid mode, you can run all day. It'll be interesting to see how this all shakes out.


Title: Re: Electric Drive
Post by: Owly055 on May 14, 2017, 11:44:48 AM
220 amp hours is 73.3 amps for 3  hours or 3520 watts.  That's 4.72 HP before the gearbox, probably closer to 4-4.5 HP real world shaft horsepower.    Take your 4 cycle outboard or inboard, and calculate how much power it takes to move the boat at 3.5 kts based on fuel consumption per hour.   1 gallon per  hour is very close to 12 hp.   You should be able to cruise at 3.5 kts on .29 gallons per hour if their numbers are correct.    Typical 4 cycle gas engine efficiency with a fairly efficient engine is .5 pounds of fuel per horsepower hour, and gas weighs 6 pounds per gallon.   Two cycles can burn anything from 50% more upward, often as much as double.  There is no accurate way to calculate horsepower based on fuel consumption on a two cycle, though direct injection engines will tend to burn about 20% more than good 4 cycle... about .6 gallons per hp per hour.  That would be something like the Etech or Optimax.

                                                                 H.W.
Title: Re: Electric Drive
Post by: Bob J (ex-misfits) on September 05, 2017, 03:34:39 PM
Finally got this thing 95% complete. Should have the batteries next week, we'll see if she spins.
Title: Re: Electric Drive
Post by: Frank on September 05, 2017, 05:04:06 PM
Look forward to the report.
Hope it exceeds expectations for ya!!
Title: Re: Electric Drive
Post by: Norman on September 05, 2017, 05:38:05 PM
Excellent start on the electric motor drive.  The transmission integrates beautifully, and the motor room is in fine shape.

Did the instructions emphasize getting perfect shaft alignment?  I see a flexible shaft coupling, and many motor manufacturers depend on them to get SATISFACTORY alignment.  All flexible couplings have some wobble unless the shaft  is perfectly aligned, and wobble eats shaft seals prematurely.  The arrangement that you have makes perfect alignment relatively easy, especially since the motor is relatively light weight.  It seems that you can raise or lower by simply adjusting the nuts on the support threaded shafts, if there are nuts also under the metal support plate.  The life of the flexible coupling is also extended by lack of actual flexing.

An aluminum roof over the motor itself, easily removable, and far enough away to prevent blocking air flow will keep condensation from dripping into the motor in changing weather.  All water on a boat is conductive, and causes corrosion and short circuits.  This is a "stitch in time" modification.

I have repaired two generators with "moisture" failures, one was simply mouse pee, the other was condensation.

Again, the setup is coming along nicely, and I am happy to see that the picture problem is solved, and we see just what you have done so far.

Norman

Title: Re: Electric Drive
Post by: ralay on September 05, 2017, 06:26:36 PM
Looks professional.  I'm interested to hear how it goes.  I was just reading a back issue of Wooden Boat with an article on a solar electric power boat.  The owners seemed really pleased with its performance. 
Title: Re: Electric Drive
Post by: Bob J (ex-misfits) on September 06, 2017, 12:44:50 PM
Thanks for the kind words.

The flexible coupling,  you're right about alignment being critical just as it would be with any transmission to shaft coupling. The reason for the flexible coupling on this installation is to electrically isolate the drive from the prop shaft.

The cover idea, crossed my mind. I considered  having a piece of aluminum bent up so I could mount the controller & contactor on the drop pan next to the motor. Toss a cover over the whole contraption, you not only protect it fbutrom moisture but now the drive & it's components are enclosed in a faraday cage..