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How do you experenced folks handle your lifeboat/tenders concerns...

1st why are they called tenders? ??? (they are called tenders right?) ::)

What are your opinions on lifeboats on a voyage?
How do you handle your storage?
Do you use an inflatable or ridged?

Zen,

     Thank you for asking.  This will provide us with hours of entertainment.  Karma for you.

Right now I have a Walker Bay 8 for my dink. It tows well and can get me and the CrewDogs around. Supposedly, some friends are selling me there near-new small inflateable for a low price, which would be good for longer voyages due to stowability. I don't fancy the idea of towing the WB in a storm, and the space on deck is a bit small for it. We'll be playing with that this year.

AFA a lifeboat/raft, for my vessel I would need around 60-65 cubic feet of flotation to keep her decks awash were she to fill with water. I think I am going to build that volume in, so that should the worst happen, I should be able to survive aboard or possibly even get her refloated even at sea, a la Jim Baldwins Atom.

Lin and Larry Pardey's idea for making your dinghy into your lifeboat bear serious thought. Rather than just drifting while hopefully awaiting rescue, the idea is to have a craft with which you can be proactive towards saving yourself.

All in all, for a boat this size, though, I think keeping it afloat, even if the decks are awash, is the best idea. JMO. :)

QuoteZen,

     Thank you for asking.  This will provide us with hours of entertainment.  Karma for you.

Sarah is right!

  I will be providing more then my fair share of entertainment on this thread, because my forays into the realm of 'tenders' have been truly laughable.

  First, I was on a 'ball' for about 4 months, and the daily grind of borrowing the marina's paddle boat was less then no fun.....
especially when the wind kicked up or you had cargo to haul.

Not so bad in calm weather though. (http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/attachment.php?attachmentid=1716&stc=1)

  Then I came upon a 'Deal'! on "Mr Smiles"  ;D First there was a nice hard dink for sale for $300, in the marina, but I missed that.  THe guy who bought it agreed to sell me his old one.....

  Mr Smiles is a Sandpiper 8' which has a unique reverse chine hull (it is supposed to track well when it rows, but it does not!)

  I loaded it up with the wife, and the dog and in sight of the whole Yacht club proceeded to spin in circles all the way out to the boat! I quickly understood how it got the name Mr Smiles.......  >:(  They have since re-designed the 'sandpiper 8' and the new ones look allot like the walker bay 8'

  Eventually I got where I could row it half way straight.. and towed it everywhere.  It floats, but got swamped in a squall one day and I can attest to the fact that a dingy full of water makes a very effective sea anchor!  If that had happened while running an inlet I would have had no choice but to cut her loose.

  I know it will fit on the foredeck, but it makes tacking hard, and anchor handling near to impossible.  Not to mention the fact that it weighs about #150 and is a struggle to get up on deck in the first place (even with the spin halyard).

  So I decided to look for an inflatable. 

I found a great deal on an Avon R-280.  It would not row well, but I also found a 2hp Evenrude outboard..... but even deflated the raft would not fit in my cockpit locker!  Now 3 adults and 2 small children could sleep in either one of my cockpit lockers but not this boat!  ???

  So then I was in a WM, and they had a much smaller inflatable on sale.  It was 8', but folded down to fit in a suitcase size bag.  Cool!  So, I took the plunge, brought it home blew it up.  Sure it was a little tight but it would work.....

  ....then I tried to get the !@#$%$# thing back in the suitcase.  I got all the air out of it, but somehow it was not as small (and never again would be!).  It was returned to WM, it took up the entire trunk of my car!  :P

  So, there is another Avon Dink in the marina, an Avon Redcrest (does not have the hard transom).  It is in ok shape but not as good as what I have. (My R-280 was a 1998 model, this is like a 1980 model, but very little use.).  I make the switch, and can finally get an inflatable dink into the cockpit locker.  But it takes up the whole bottom half of the locker.  :(

  I can not picture myself wrestling this thing out after a long day underway to go ashore, but I guess it could be done.  If you were off shore for a while and then came in to a distant anchorage and slept for a day..... you might be inclined to swim ashore and find someone to help you drag this thing out of the locker and pump it up!

  So, I have tried a couple of the options..... can't say I have found one I am happy with yet.   :P

  I do have a 14' Coleman canoe...... Hummmmmm.  ::)

I am seriously considering making a "nesting dinghy" this winter. Some very intresting designs on the net. I am leaning toward a 9' pram  design.

Mr. Fixit,

     Okay, I'll bite.  What's a "nesting dinghy"?

     BTW, I like your name "Mr. Fixit".

It breaks down into 2 sections for storage--one section inside the other

the perfect TENDER ????  Next to the biggest anchor ya can carry...the best tender ya can take is right up there.   While cruising,you use them a LOT !!!They are real important. Supply ship , water taxi , exploration vehicle , life raft , etc etc.   Hard dinghys row way better-pull up on coral beachs with less damage-cost less-tow better(unless they swamp)  inflatables store better(soft bottoms)-are more stable-make better life rafts are relatively expensive for a good one and row terribly....rigid bottom inflatables perform better-ride better(more speed less spray) are still good for a life raft but are very expensive for a good one and don't store as well. On my 26...a 9.5ft inflatable is the only way. It rolls up in the cockpit floor while offshore(less water in cockpit if pooped and handy to use if needed) is stable,a 2hp pushs it along slowly(beats rowing)and tows OK once coastal cruising. Size/storage dictates it on my lil boat

I guess I have the Lincoln of dingies - at least for the lake  I can tow it behind the boat if I feel the need or just take it anywhere on the lake as my boat for the day. I've hauled sandstone for my yard in it,  Used it to carry fire wood to bonfires, I've hauled it to FL to move a Columbia 8.7 15 miles. Of course having a luxury vessel like this has its down sides - It will NOT fit on deck and its REAL heavy  - What is you ask?  A 14ft V-bottom Aluminum boat with a 15hp Johnson ( I may upgrade to a 25hp this year)  20 knots and a range of 60+ miles with the 13gal tank.  Did I mention it holds four adults and two beer coolers easily.

I also have an Ocean Kayak, a 15ft Coleman Canoe and a small inflatable with a 2hp  - the kayak stays on the boat for scooting around at the beach

I don't know for sure why their called "tenders".  I always assumed that they were called that as they "tended" to the needs of the mother ship.  But of course there's also the money type definition, something about the exchange of goods, in this case from ship to shore.
I have had only two.  The first was an 8' plywood pram that came with my first "real" cruising boat, a 1934 Winthrop Warner cutter.  It was great.  Stable, rowed well even in large seas, sailed well (similiar to an Optimist).  I loved that dinghy.  I towed it though because it was kind of bulky and in the way when on the foredeck.  The first time I pulled into a lock (Troy locks on the Hudson River), the resulting turbulance moved the 20,000 lb. boat out away from the lock wall, the dinghy forward between the boat and the wall, and the boat back toward the wall.  The sound that resulted was horrendous! 
I then bought a 10' Avon inflatable with a 15 hp Johnson outboard and still have them 20 years later.  Both the dinghy and the motor are a pain in the ass.  They're way heavy, don't stow well, I can't inflate the dinghy on deck, the mahogany floorboards and transom ALWAYS need varnishing, the motor is too heavy to leave on the stern rail at sea, and I wouldn't give them up for anything.  36 kts gives you a lot of choices when anchoring awy from populated areas.  AND the kids, when they were younger could actually water ski behind it!  Try that with a pram!
BUT, I think I'm going to build one of those nesting dinghys as well, with built in flotation and lockers that will keep stuff safe when ashore.  Poor old speedy won't last forever.

I bought a used 7'  hard dinghy with oars for $80.  I love to row and thought I'd use that until I found something I liked more.  I still use

that dinghy.

Since I cruise alone most of the time, I consider "security issues".  I don't have the name of my boat on my dinghy so folks won't know when The Edge is unoccupied.  I also like it looking grungy - people take one look at it and figure I don't have anything worth stealing ;).

I sliced an old firehose and secured it around the edge with tie wraps and 5200.  That enhances the grungy look that I am going for ::).

When towing, I use one long rope and attach it to either side of the bow at just above water level.  The rope is then one big loop and I can adjust it for center (ease in towing, reduces drag) or to one side when I am attempting to dock ;).  I have a second rope tied from the bow center of the dinghy in case something should happen to the main rope while I am seriously towing, as in crossing the Gulf Stream.

Towing could be troublesome in a heavy rain during situations where you can't stop to bail >:(

Mr Smiles has had 22' of goodyears's finest radiator hose (red) added around the edge......  Grunge is a good thing.  ;D

a liferaft is a definite must have.along with an EPIRB with  spare batteries and emergency provisions.anything is better than nothing and if you think your boat cannot sink theres a job waiting for you on the Titanic.these things can and do happen  not just in the movies or on tv.... in only has to happen once.

Amorous is correct as to the meaning of the word "tender".  Navies use the tenders to "tend" to the mother ship and the name stuck since then.

I wonder why there isn't a product, sort of like a car's airbag, that is compact but will self inflate under given conditions inside the cabin. The idea is to keep the boat afloat and give you time to jury rig repairs.

oded kishony

there are.  i don't have any links handy, but i know i've seen them.  i believe that they mount inside, under the hull to deck connection.  I don't remember if they are automatic but would imagine that they are either/or.  i'll do some more checking.

IIRC, they are very expensive.

I think I remember that part too. ;D

Just got a call from my buddy with the inflatable. It is the West Marine small version, they bought it new maybe 4 years ago, and it has been used only a few times. They are selling it to me cheap cheap cheap, which is cool, cool, cool. :;)It's like only 6' or 8' LOA when inflated, so I think it will stow fairly well. Will find out later today, when I get it back down here I'll blow it up to check for leaks and condition, and take a pic then too. Excellent! ;D

Here is an article I wrote about adding stability to a hard dinghy.  This was in Sail last May, so some may have seen it.  I have hopes of seeing the check for it soon, too.  If anyone would like the original article with pictures, drop me an e-mail (slrman@att.net) and I'll shoot it off to you.

Dinghy Doings
I had purchased an 8' hard dinghy with a 3.5 hp outboard for my O'Day 32.  The dink was rugged, unsinkable, and fit neatly between the davits on Picasso's stern.  The only problem was it lacked the stability of an inflatable.  An unexpected trip into the waters of the marina one day convinced me to do something about this.  I thought about the inflatable tubes available from the manufacturer, but they cost almost as much as I paid for the dink, motor, and sail kit. 

Instead, I got the idea of attaching foam flotation to the sides.  I called around to several local places looking for high-density closed cell foam.  In the quantities I needed, that was more than I wanted to spend on an uncertain project.  Finally, it was suggested to me to use the "noodles" made for kids and swimming pools.  At least the price was right.  I bought six noodles and some waterproof spray cement all for under $12. 

The noodles didn't fit very well as they were, so I sliced them lengthwise with a large razor knife and the assistance of Tom, who gave me the noodle idea.  That's the danger of making suggestions, you can get caught up in the work. 

In photo 1, you can see how the "noodles" were stacked up along the side until I had five pieces on each side.  It was so easy I decided to carve some of the extra foam into a tapered shape to give the front sections a more streamlined shape.  See photo 2.

When the dinghy is empty, the foam is out of the water a bit.  When heavily loaded, they are slightly immersed. 

So how does it work?  Not as well as the inflatable tubes, I'm sure.  But, for ten bucks, they do very well.  At least I don't feel like a candidate for the swim team when getting in or out of the dink.

I would really like to see a picture of this set up. 



   I wonder if Mr. Smiles could get any more ugly.....  ;D

 

...and here she is, the new dink. I spent an hour or so cleaning her up, then slapped out the outboard and went for a spin. She'll plane. :D I forgot to grab the GPS, but would guess that I was making 10 kts or so. Now all I have to do is watch out for oysters...

(http://sailfar.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG_2988.JPG)

(http://sailfar.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG_2989.JPG)

Great lookin Zodiac CapnK - Congrats on finding a deal on one.

I have the identical one to 8' Walker Bay in the background. 'Row vs Wade' tows great, but doesn't inspire confidence in rough seas. The lightweight tupperware construction makes it practically bulletproof. I to came across this in a deal too good to say no to. I will likely be in the market for a great inflatable.

John

Dinghy Doings

Note:  This has been published in Sail last year.  The pictures are available if anyone wants them.  Just drop me a note and I'll e-mail them to you.

I had purchased an 8' hard dinghy with a 3.5 hp outboard for my O'Day 32.  The dink was rugged, unsinkable, and fit neatly between the davits on Picasso's stern.  The only problem was it lacked the stability of an inflatable.  An unexpected trip into the waters of the marina one day convinced me to do something about this.  I thought about the inflatable tubes available from the manufacturer, but they cost almost as much as I paid for the dink, motor, and sail kit. 

Instead, I got the idea of attaching foam flotation to the sides.  I called around to several local places looking for high-density closed cell foam.  In the quantities I needed, that was more than I wanted to spend on an uncertain project.  Finally, it was suggested to me to use the "noodles" made for kids and swimming pools.  At least the price was right.  I bought six noodles and some waterproof spray cement all for under $12. 

(http://sailfar.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/normal_photo1.jpg)

The noodles didn't fit very well as they were, so I sliced them lengthwise with a large razor knife and the assistance of Tom, who gave me the noodle idea.  That's the danger of making suggestions, you can get caught up in the work. 
In photo 1, you can see how the "noodles" were stacked up along the side until I had five pieces on each side.  It was so easy I decided to carve some of the extra foam into a tapered shape to give the front sections a more streamlined shape.  See photo 2.

(http://sailfar.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/normal_photo2.jpg)

When the dinghy is empty, the foam is out of the water a bit.  When heavily loaded, they are slightly immersed. 

So how does it work?  Not as well as the inflatable tubes, I'm sure.  But, for ten bucks, they do very well.  At least I don't feel like a candidate for the swim team when getting in or out of the dink.

(http://sailfar.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/normal_photo3.jpg)

Slrman -

If you'd like to email the pictures to me ( sailorkurt at gmail dot com), I'll post them in the Gallery so they can be linked into the story. Good story, by the way. :) The "unexpected trip into the marina waters" - yep, been there done that, but not off of the dinghy (yet!).

I've also seen people rig a row of small fenders around the edge of their dinghy to make it more stable. Noodles would be a cheaper solution, though. How have they held up to UV?

Because I sold the boat, I am not sure how well it's held up.  Even though the Noodles are supposedly stabilized for UV exposure, I painted them afterwards anyway.  I took the pictures first so they would show up better.

I supposed painting them a contrasting color would have been a good idea.  But I had the white spray paint already.  Also, I had hopes it would provide better UV protection and not fade.

Speaking of UV protection, I have used SPF 40 sunscreen on bungees, Bimini straps, and even the Bimini itself with very good results.  After all, it works on our skin, so why not?  I'd apply it with a cloth and let it soak in.  I have no idea how long it would last but I would redo the straps and bungees every couple of months.  The Bimini, I never did again as the fabric itself was supposed to be good.  The sunscreen did improve the color, though.

Hey Jim...
Just spray on glue? How long do you think that would last? It isn't soluble, so probably some time. Be interesting to hear about it later on when it has aged.

Good question about the glue.  I really don't know.  It was advertised as being waterproof and suitable for immersion.  But that's the advertising, and you know how that is.   ;D 

I was in contact with the new owners for about a year and all they ever said about it was they liked the arrangement a lot better than the last hard dinghy they'd had.  In fact, they said they originally had planned to sell it and buy an inflatable but, after trying it, decided to spend the boat bucks elsewhere. 

Quote from: oded kishony on January 02, 2006, 07:53:29 AM
I wonder why there isn't a product, sort of like a car's airbag, that is compact but will self inflate under given conditions inside the cabin. The idea is to keep the boat afloat and give you time to jury rig repairs.

oded kishony

I have seen first hand what it takes to keep a severly damaged boat afloat.the aftermath of hurricane jean left most of the boats at the marina I was at on the bottom.it was only about  6 feet deep ,but it took several people and a work barge equipped with a heavy duty compressor to fill  several air  bags roughly the size and shape of a small water bed to re-float these vessels. some of the larger vessels needed continuosly more and more airbags.the hoses to fill these float bags were more like the fire hoses you see on a fire truck.some of the heavier displacement boats were dragged to the shoreline while still somewhat submerged.hulls that remained intact were pumped out on site once afloat. and that was in the still and calmness of a marina that was protected by a sea wall.now add to it the surging of a moving seaway.if your boat has tons of lead ballast....the thought of an air bag.... well there was once a plan to re-float the titanic by filling it with oil.

There is a big difference in the pressure required to inflate salvage bags and what would be needed to inflate a bag before the boat went down.

  If you think about the weight of the water you are displaceing when you are trying to 'float' a submerged boat it makes sense that it would take a lot to bring it up.  Just like in SCUBA you use much more air the deeper you go, so will it require much more pressure to inflate the bag under water.

  You should not need an awful lot of presusre (think of a life raft inflation device) if the boat is not yet full of water.

  That said, I think it makes much more sense to just isolate whatever spaces you can to trap as much air as you can.  Maybe not as effective as the airbags, but more practical.  IMHO

if I remember correclty my ariel had 2500 pounds of lead ballast.how much of an air bag would be needed to keep it afloat...even while still at the surface.also the islander I have now even tho its 4 feet longer has less draft....and the same ballast.in no way shape or form do I expect any kind of airbag to keep it afloat.

heres my idea of a really unsinkable boat and this would be real fun to do...you know those sparkletts bottles....the plastic ones....well how about getting several thousand of those seriously ....and constructing something like the kon-tiki....or the Thor Heyerdahl type Ra-expidition raft type vessels....now fill those bottles with that expanding type insulating foam....got any ideas???????????????????????????DONT PUT IT PAST ME.I WOULD DO IT

Eric,

  Give you lot's of opportunities to place messages in bottles should your craft start sinking  ;D

  To get nutral bouyancy it seems to me that you would have to fill bags large enough to displace water equal to it's submerged weight.

  At  at the surface, on average weighs 1027 kg/m3, or just over 64.1 lbs per cubic foot. (http://www.faqfarm.com/Q/How_much_does_sea_water_weigh_per_cubic_foot)  So, just to float your keel I believe you would need something like 40 cubic feet of bladder space. 


  Of course if you had that much space filled in advance (water tight compartments) you might keep enought water out to keep from having to re-float it in the first place.....

  I do like your idea though. Kinda wonder how a plastic 'sparklet bottle' would go to wind.  ;D

Here you go Eric,

(http://www.milkcartonboat.com/images/flyer71.jpg)

  Just gotta get a waiver from the race comitte.  ;D

Here is a link, the 'frugal' among us might get some ideas for a new tender there...  :D

http://www.milkcartonboat.com

I hoida dat too.I jus thoughta buildin a raft and doinz like da kewooobin raftaz an' goin bakta joizee onda gulf stweem

look this idea of the unsinkable boat went down with the titanic.its like an un-crashable aircraft.and sky divers want anti-gravity jumpsuits too.this air bag thing may be possible but its not practical.atleast not for heavily ballasted boats.some unballasted  vessels like multihulls may stand a chance.but  I dont see this idea being mass-produced or advertised  as such.any small boat getting run down by a freighter is like a bowling ball rolling over a mosquito.

Kurt,

  Nice inflatable you got there....  

(note, green with envy....)

  Have you tried to fit it into your cockpit locker yet?  Or inflate/deflate it from the boat? 

  I wish you better luck then I have.  ::)



OBTW, not only do we have the same boat, I have the same outboard for my dingy!

I've tried hard dinks and inflatables.  The hard dinghies have the advantage of being easier to row but can be a bit tipsy and storage is an issue on a small boat. 

The inflatables are very stable, but hard to row, storage is not much of an issue, although it can be.  If you use an outboard on your inflatable, the rowing issue isn't a problem though.  Inflatables also seem to have superior load carrying ability when compared to hard dinghies.

IMHO, my tender solution incorporates the best of both worlds.  The Porta-Bote has the stability of and load carrying of an inflatable, and is easy to row.  Storage-wise the folded up Porta-Bote can be attached to your stanchions and not clutter the deck.  The seats can be easily stored in the bottom of a locker.  There is a sailing kit available, but IMHO, it is not worth the extra storage it requires.

Here's the link to Porta-Bote...

http://www.porta-bote.com/

Good point, Joe - I've seen a few cruisers come through here using them, and they universally like their Porta Botes as a best-of-both-worlds solution.

I met this guy who sailed from the Neatherlands to Japan with his wife ( 40 plus ftr). They have been in Japan for some 15 yrs after a lengthy stay in New Zealand and other places downunder. He gave me this old mag from Z-land, which dealt mostly with the big Spenders and thier $ailboat$. However there was one articule which I though was interesting on this guy's homemade lifeboat.
I have scanned it into a PDF file. so not to unset any copyright laws, If someone wants to read it send me  PM I will forward you a copy. It is a small article only 2 pages.

Ok, my porta-bote finally came last Tuesday.  I had ordered the 8' one, really about 9'.  I took it to PD this weekend so I could experience the adventure of setting it up while on the deck of PD, just like I will need to do when on my trip. ;)
I had 2 buddies who came along for the entertainment.  They also decided picts were in order so they would have something to look back on and laugh further.  I took the dorade vents off to allow more deck space, pushed the boom way out and struggled to get the 50# 9'4" banana onto the deck.  This done, I proceeded to open.  I pushed the first side up, landed a bare foot firmly in it and started to push the back side out.  The boat started skiing over the side of the cabin, with me squealing like a little girl.  Nothing to grab onto, we were sliding over the edge.  The edge of the porta-bote caught on the handrail,  my buddy grabbed the boat and I managed to get my balance back.  6 more inches and the boat and I would have skated right into the drink.   :o Ok, I had to stop laughing...  ;D
Got it open enough to put the wedge in, cursed a few times and got the seats in, then the transom screwed in.  Ok, I had to also ask for a little help on one occassion.  The wind was blowing about 17 knots so the boat was sliding back and forth on the cabin top.   Whew!  It is now ready to be launched into the water, *opened*.   I give it a good push over the lifelines... it floats!! This is good.  Then I get in and begin to row.  GOOD GOSH!!  It rowed like a barge.   I had bicep burn within 10 minutes :P it did not want to tack to windward at all and I got out in the bayou where the wind and current had its way with me.  I thought I was never going to get it back in.  Bow sits really low in the water.  Would probably be great with an outboard, which I will have, but I also really enjoy rowing.  Great experience  ::) ;D carried it up, took it apart and contacted Porta-Bote this morning to beg them to take it back.   Plan is for me to get it to the rep in Sarasota, hopefully,otherwise, he said shipping to CA for return will run me $400.   Cost of boat was 1149.  I am waiting on the Sarasota rep to return my message.
Anyone want to make a good trade?  CJ- nesting dinghy for a porta-bote?   ;D
I will try to post a couple of pics in the Gallery.    Back to the drawing board for my dinghy plans.  My old blue Achilles with wooden boards was looking pretty good Sat. 

OK- it can be done on the deck of a boat,  would have been much easier with 2 people handling and probably does much better with an outboard rather than rowing.  Also would be great to just pull up onto shore without worrying about puncture.  In all fairness, I had to also include the positives.   :)

I want to see the video  ;D ;D

Quote from: The Edge on December 30, 2005, 10:39:28 AM
Mr. Fixit,

     Okay, I'll bite.  What's a "nesting dinghy"?

     BTW, I like your name "Mr. Fixit".

Sarah, Check out this link for a wonderful example of a 9 ft homebuilt nesting dinghy.

http://seaweed.thebilge.com/spindrift.htm

Rik

I am so glad you posted the website for the nesting dinghy.  I have been wondering  what they were and was having trouble getting  a visual.  I have never seen them around here.  Awesome looking little boat!  Perfect timing!  :)

I Agree, that is a nice looking lil dinghy. With some modification it would make a great lil life boat!

Because remember as a wise sailor once said (many times really) "U'r never more than 5 miles ( more or less ) from the bottom ;)

;D ;D

Porta bote- well they do not just take them back. YOU are responsible for shipping it back to them and that is not cheap.  They told me I could ship it to one of their reps in Venice Florida.  That was going to cost 230.   Driving it in my sons truck would have been close to 200.  I placed it on Ebay and it went for 970.  I paid 1149 for it.  Sad to say, but I am thrilled to have lessened the amt of money loss.  Expensive lesson learned.  I just hope that Pay Pal comes through in 5 days and I do not have to start this process over again.
Now I am back to the drawing table trying to decide what I want to do dinghy wise.   ;D  I am back to using the old blue Achilles for now.   
I had replaced my Raritan Head with a Jabsco,  I sold the Raritan head on Ebay for a whopping $31.00   :D

Connie,

  Thanks for saving us (me at least) the tome and trouble.  My dingy fleet is quite large enough.

  Karma pop for your trouble. ;D   <==== pricy karma pop  :o

Thanks Craig- I need a good Karma Pop after that last hit.  Another valuable lesson learned.   :D ::)
(it still hurts a little)  :'(

Quote from: s/v Faith on December 30, 2005, 08:43:30 AM
First, I was on a 'ball' for about 4 months, and the daily grind of borrowing the marina's paddle boat was less then no fun.....
especially when the wind kicked up or you had cargo to haul.

But you look so cute in the paddle boat... the dog does look like he wants to push you in though...

I'm using a porta-bote as a dinghy... It solves the storage problem, as it can fold flat and store on the ama deck when it isn't in use.  It is unsinkable, very durable and both rows and motors well. It can hold about 650 lbs. or so as well. 

 ;D ;D Whenever I see someone write they are using porta-bote as a dinghy. My mind first reads: "porta-pottie"   ;D ;D ;D

I bought a new porta bote and immed sold it on Ebay.  It shipped out yesterday to a guy in IN.   I did not like the way it rowed.   It was very, very difficult for me to row and I am a pretty good row girl.  I think it would have been fine with an engine on it.  I decided it was not going to work for me... so now I am back to figuring out my next dinghy purchase.  Old blue will just have to do for now.  :)

  ;D just an eye trick, nothing against yours  ;D

Connie-

Just curious as to which Porta-bote you had?  I have the big 12' 6" one, and it seems to track and row just fine. Even it didn't work, I'd still use it, since Gee bought it for me to use for fishing. :D

We will not be hearing from Connie for a while she and s/v Pixie Dust, I believe are out doing the wind in the sail thing.

Hi,
At a marina someone thru away an old 12' rigid bottom inflatable.   I brought it home and pumped the 3 chambers up and only one held.  As it is real heavy and won't fold, what would be the best way to put foam or something in the chambers to make it permanently rigid?

On my columbia 29, I carry my 7' rollup inflatable inflated upside down on the deck below the mast and tie it to the handrails when sailing a long distance.   It's my tender and liferaft in one. 

David

Quote from: AdriftAtSea on May 21, 2006, 05:24:07 PM
Connie-
Just curious as to which Porta-bote you had?  I have the big 12' 6" one, and it seems to track and row just fine. Even it didn't work, I'd still use it, since Gee bought it for me to use for fishing. :D

Sorry so long to respond.  I am still trying to catch up on reads and getting used to being out of the hammock and making my own coffee.   :D  ;D
I had an 8' porta bote, the baby one.  That is probably the reason it did not row so well.  It was short and beamy.  Since yours has a longer water line, I am sure that makes a huge difference.  Yours also has specialness attached to it.  :) Glad you like yours.  The day I put mine in the water, it was blowing pretty good and a good chop worked up, which of course was a good day to try it out. 

Yes, it does have special significance to me... and I was able to get it to go fairly straight in even choppy/windy conditions.  Gee usually got it to go in big circles... lol... She didn't have much experience rowing a rowboat...but was more than happy to try.

We towed a 13 ft Boston Whaler, pretty bare, reinforced bow eye, for about ten years. 40 ft ketch rigged m/s. Couldnt do without it. Completely self-bailing even with an 80lb outboard.

We have two dinghies that we use at different times and based on what else is going on.

The first is a big 13foot all inflatable monster. It has a tiny little transom plate I made that fits various loops on the back and allows us to use the electric trolling motor. It has two advantages. It has a huge internal capacity and it folds away into one of the rear lockers perfectly. It can be carried in the car for weeks at a time taking up little space and with the trolling motor producing not one whiff of outboard smell.

generally speaking it handles like an utter pig and we probably would not buy it again if we were searching for a dinghy nowadays...but it has its advantages.

Our other dinghy is a soft floored, rigid transom bombard. Though smaller, it is a far better unit in all ways other then storage. So when we go cruising it tends to ride with us in this configuration:

(http://home.armourarchive.org/members/sasha/dinghy2.JPG)

In this way only the tips of the pontoons actually drag in the water, the thing cannot flip over or get ripped to bits by contrary wave action. It is a matter of seconds to deploy and thus is a damned good liferaft (it is the only one we have or want) and it works really well at sheltering us in the cockpit form spray flying forwards.
It is towed with the drain plug in the transom OPEN, so even if a wave manages to break into the dinghy, he twenty litres or so that get in there while it is tilted like that quickly drain out.
It MUST be attached at two points on either side and the attachments need to be hard rings on the underside of the dinghy.

We have used this system in Bass Straight on moderate yuk days and found it remarkably sturdy and good...This kind of made me rethink adding a davit system, which I had been really clever in designing to incorporate a solar panel arch, bimini, davits and rear gate for the pushpit all in the one unit. Sigh....I guess I outsmarted myself.

:)

Cheers

Alex.

P.S...oh yeah, the same trolling motor gets the Bombard up to a near plane when matched with the hard floor pannels I made for it. Really really love the silent trolling motor...and it even pushes the big boat around handily on a quiet day.
We also have a small 2stroke outboard that came with the bombard...but it hasn't been used in the last two years. I must fire it up in the barrel just to keep it alive this weekend.

As a design feature, I suggest hard gluing a 25litre capacity bag with waterproof zipper onto the bow of the dinghy. Being able to keep things dry no matter what is great, and having it permanently in place means never having to worry about forgetting it or having it wash overboard.  It takes up virtually no space or weight when empty and the dink can still be rolled up around it (as long as it is empty, of course!)

More grist for the dinghy mill... :)

Ran across a link to a website for a guy who is refitting/outfitting a Westerly Nomad for his circumnavigation*, starting sometime between Mar-Nov of '07. He'd built a stitch-n-glue pram for a dinghy, one piece, and later determined it was too large/heavy for his intentions. He is rebuilding, altering the design to make it a nester which he can store on deck. Details start here, scroll down to the August 6th entry: "BeBop Around the World" (http://westerlynomad.blogspot.com/2006_08_01_westerlynomad_archive.html).

I find this of particular interest because it is something I have been thinking about for a down-the-road project. Ideally, I'll build something very similar, using foam and glass. It's nice to be ab le to see someone else do it first, so I can know what pitfalls to look out for from their experience. :D






*Of course, I sent an email invite for him to come visit/join us here. :)

Sorry to hear you had such a problem with your porta-bote Connie.  We did have quite a time the first couple of times we tried to put it together, but once we had a bit of practice it went together quite easily.  I also think they are a bit stiff when you first get them.  We place it across the life lines up forward put it together and slide it over the side.  I thought it rowed quite well, but then I'd been using an inflatable and it is the 10 footer.

Hi Joe- I was used to my 8'9" Achilles dinghy and it rows great.  I was struggling in the Porta Bote on a windy day.  I was wondering if I was going to get it back to shore that day.  I should have packed a power bar in my shorts.  :D
I am sure that given some time, they loosen up a bit.   I needed something I could put together easily by myself and it just did not seem to work well for me. 
I ordered a Mercury, Hypalon 8'9" air floor dinghy and it just arrived.  I am looking forward to the end of the work day so I can go blow it up in the yard.   ;D  Wish me luck on this one.  I have friends who gave the thumbs up on this particular one.
More to come on Dinghy status.   ::)

One reason I like the porta-bote is their far more durable than the inflatables IMHO.  I've been using mine primarily as a fishing boat, and its seen its fair share of rocky beachs and such, and doesn't really get affected by them.  Fishing hooks and inflatables are a bad combination IMHO anyways.  :D

Quote from: Slrman on January 02, 2006, 05:34:35 PM
Here is an article I wrote about adding stability to a hard dinghy.  This was in Sail last May, so some may have seen it.  I have hopes of seeing the check for it soon, too.  If anyone would like the original article with pictures, drop me an e-mail (slrman@att.net) and I'll shoot it off to you.

Dinghy Doings
I had purchased an 8' hard dinghy with a 3.5 hp outboard for my O'Day 32.  The dink was rugged, unsinkable, and fit neatly between the davits on Picasso's stern.  The only problem was it lacked the stability of an inflatable.  An unexpected trip into the waters of the marina one day convinced me to do something about this.  I thought about the inflatable tubes available from the manufacturer, but they cost almost as much as I paid for the dink, motor, and sail kit. 

Instead, I got the idea of attaching foam flotation to the sides.  I called around to several local places looking for high-density closed cell foam.  In the quantities I needed, that was more than I wanted to spend on an uncertain project.  Finally, it was suggested to me to use the "noodles" made for kids and swimming pools.  At least the price was right.  I bought six noodles and some waterproof spray cement all for under $12. 

The noodles didn't fit very well as they were, so I sliced them lengthwise with a large razor knife and the assistance of Tom, who gave me the noodle idea.  That's the danger of making suggestions, you can get caught up in the work. 

In photo 1, you can see how the "noodles" were stacked up along the side until I had five pieces on each side.  It was so easy I decided to carve some of the extra foam into a tapered shape to give the front sections a more streamlined shape.  See photo 2.

When the dinghy is empty, the foam is out of the water a bit.  When heavily loaded, they are slightly immersed. 

So how does it work?  Not as well as the inflatable tubes, I'm sure.  But, for ten bucks, they do very well.  At least I don't feel like a candidate for the swim team when getting in or out of the dink.

  Having sold my 3rd inflateable, finding them to be less ten suited to my purpose, I am revisiting mr. Smiles... my ugly dink.

  I saw this picture in the gallery (http://sailfar.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/normal_photo1.jpg)

  And was wondering; who's this is, and what the impressions have been with the modification over time.  _{EDIT: I see, on page 2 of this thread that the dink was slrman's and he has sold it.  Maybe some one else can comment?}

  I would really like to find a lighter hard dink, as mine is pretty heavy.  Worse case I will stick with what I have, and rig a crane using the spin halyard, and pole as a derek.

Really comical.....

Here is an add for my current dink on Amazon.... (http://www.amazon.com/Broadview-Sandpiper-8-Dinghy/dp/B0006JJB7I#moreAboutThisProduct)

(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B0006JJB7I.01-)

QuoteProduct Description

Product Description
Versatile, practical, durable, and affordable, the SANDPIPER 8 Dinghy is the perfect tender or general dinghy for the whole family. Designed as a car toppable tender/dinghy, the SANDPIPER 8 is made in the USA of solid ABS plastic that is UV stable and maintenance free. Weighing in at only 75 lbs., the SANDPIPER 8 is light and easy to handle, and is easily rowed or powered with up to a 3 HP motor. The foam-filled hull's deep-V design provides surprising stability and responsiveness, yet draws little water providing maximum freeboard and minimum drag when being towed. Standard features include a stainless steel bow eye, motor mounting plate, and an adjustable wooden seat. One year warranty. Meets USCG and NMMA safety requirements. White hull, wood seat.

  What's so funny?  Well, mine has been the subject (victim?) of several repair efforts after the plastic hull (outter hull) has been cracked, split, holed, and generally messed up.  Some of these repairs have worked, and others have not.  (mine of course are the good ones).  ;D
  The combined effect of the varying levels of effectiveness of these repairs has been to allow water to soak the foam core until my dink that started out at #75, now weighs more like #150! 

  She still floats, even with the drain plug pulled.  She is just really hard to lift, and produces quite a bit of drag when towed..... not to mention she is a pretty good contestant in an ugly dink contest.

  I will find a photo....

s/v Faith-

I think that dink is a Walker Bay.  http://www.walkerbay.com/

Dan

Quote from: s/v Faith on October 11, 2006, 01:56:55 PM

  I saw this picture in the gallery (http://sailfar.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/normal_photo1.jpg)

  And was wondering; who's this is, and what the impressions have been with the modification over time....... 

Quotes/v Faith-

I think that dink is a Walker Bay.  http://www.walkerbay.com/

Dan

  Yes, I saw the walker bay logo on the side, my post was asking about the long term impressions after the addition of the noodles.....

 

Craig -

I've read postings by people who say that the WB8's are 'unstable', but it seems to me that there is a correlation between those who say this, and an an excess in the amount of their body weight*. ;D

While you can't stand on the gunwale of the WB8 (and remain dry), stepping into the middle of the boat works quite nicely for me, and I don't find it to be any more squirrely than any other small, rounded-bottom boat. They are very durable - I slam mine into docks quite frequently, and she takes it in stride. Hitting a boat won't scratch the boat, either. My only request would be that it was nestable for foredeck stowage. :)

I don't think that you and Rose would have any problems with one, and I also don't think that y'all need the noodles modification to make a WB8 viable. Of course, you are more than welcome to stop by and play on mine some time, if you'd like. :)



*(For the record and to clarify that I am not referring to him, I have no idea what slrman looks like - this comment comes from prior experience on another sailing webboard. There, several people talk bad about the WB8's when the question arises, but after seeing pics of those folks, I noticed that any given one of them would come close to the stated capacity limit of the boat. Expecting an 8' dink to be stable for a person in excess of 200#'s is, IMO, just not realistic.)

CapnK, I think you're being kind... :D 

I believe that addition of the flotation tubes to the exterior of the Walker Bay dinghies was an attempt to make them far more stable than they were prior to adding the tubes.  I'd imagine it does make them a bit more awkward to row as well. 

Well, here is a new possibility found on Duckworks.  A hard, folding dinghy called flapdoodle.
(http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/designs/flapdoodle/rear2.jpg)
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/designs/flapdoodle/index.htm

Quote
Designed after 6 years of research and testing to be as simple, rugged, and painless as possible.

    * The classic hull shape leaves hardly a ripple at 5-6 knots with a 400 pound test load.
    * Triple hinges on the folding panels; metal, and rugged PVC cloth laminated to Dacron.
    * The PVC fabric is readily available in any color including metallic and glow-in the dark.
    * Unique positive locking system joins the transom, skeg, and rear seat into a solid unit.
    * Solid center seat for strength and ease of construction.
    * The dagger board is tilted to the rear to prevent scooping water under power.
    * Convenient, inexpensive wheeled skeg.
    * No special tools required.
    * No need to built a form to shape the hull.
    * No special things to order.
    * Folds to about 4" thick.
    * Length 7'10", Depth 16 1/2", Beam 47"
    * Light enough to carry the folded part under one arm.

Might be worth looking into.  It looks like the guy is selling plans for $29.  He does mention that he hasn't tried assembling in a boats cockpit yet.  More information at http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/flapdoodle/

Pretty sailing dinghy... BUt I think I'll stick with my porta-bote.

The Porta-Bote is interesting, no doubt.  But I am always looking to trade 300 or 400 hundred hours of labor in order to save a couple of hundred bucks.  Or sometimes not.  I spent about 80 hours over a little under three weeks building a multi-panel plywood canoe for a river trip I was invited on.  I couldn't see spending $700 for a canoe.  So I built one at a cost of only $800 or so.  I do like to think it was the prettiest canoe on the river though!

Boatbuilding can be addictive.  It's a sad commentary on society today when you consider the addictive nature of this type of active and realize that there is ABSOLUTELY NO government financing allocated for the treatment of this condition, and ABSOLUTELY NO LAWS to prevent anyone from picking up this dangerous habit.  Just think, it is actually legal for a 15 year old CHILD to pick up a hammer, saw, and a couple planks of wood and build his/her own boat!  Please remember, when you vote this Tuesday to support candidates that take the Boat Building epidemic seriously.  And don't even get me started on the crazy folk who take small, under equipped (some don't even have RADAR!!!!), undercrewed (singlehanding?  Are you kidding me) boats onto our public waterways. 

;D

Unfortunately, there are no good twelve-step programs for boatbuilding or sailing for that matter.  :o  Under the current regime, it isn't seen as a serious issue and probably won't be addressed...as they're too busy confiscating shampoo and toothpaste.

Quote from: AdriftAtSea on November 01, 2006, 01:02:42 PM
Under the current regime

Which regime, past or now seeking office for the future HAS addressed this issue?

Tongue out of cheek for a moment....All kidding aside, I'd be wary about saying this "too loudly."  If the wrong person saw this, who knows what laws we might have next year.  Our government (and others) seem to lilke nothing more than to regulate the activities of free individuals.  There already ARE some crazy laws on the the books regarding what you can/cannot do on your own boat (riding on the bow, etc), and others are proposed annually.

Lest you think "only boaters read this site and no boater would advocate such draconian regulation" it is on boating sites that I've seen things discussed like bow riding laws and others.  Some folks support regulation more strongly than others, no matter what activities they do.

Capn Smollett-

I'm not too worried about what I say...if you've looked at my blog, the current regime would have plenty of reasons to arrest me for what I've said about them directly... GWB has recently signed a law that makes it much easier for him to declare martial law and effectively gives him control of the state National Guard units.  Not a good thing—as he has effectively repealed the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878. 

Hmmm, I guess you have not heard of the lady who got arrested for having something on her van about the wonderful president that was not .errrr politically correct...or the high school girl, nabbed by the FBI...
things happen...

have you not noticed that black van that keeps driving by... 8)

I should not have thought that a thread on tenders would turn political... ::)

  Anchoring maybe, but not tenders.  ;D

  My vote is that each be allowed to choose their own.  I guess I am more of a libertarian wTR the prickly tender issue.

  Unlike life and death matters (like one's choice of sealant) there is a tender out there for everyone, and I think they should find their own way.

Except for my first sentence, I wasn't talking about what YOU said, Dan, I was making a comment about joiking around about the gubment getting involved in sailing/boating.  I was merely trying to point out that there are those out there who would read this portion of this thread and think "heck yeah, there SHOULD be a law against people buildilng their own boats...who do they think they are, doing that, anyway?"

I really don't appreciate THIS FORUM being used for political grandstanding.  That kind of garbage has all but destroyed TSBB and other sailing forums.  If you do or don't like GWB, that's your lookout.  I don't care about your political views.  I don't come to SailFar to read about it.  I'll make my own decisions about politics at or before the time I am in the voting booth.

Now, as to the portion of my reply directed at you.  You said "this regime" like this is the ONLY administration that has not given attention to 'this issue' (boat building addiction, which was a joke and even if we pretend for a moment that it was not a joke, who would WANT any governemnt to regulate the private building of boats for one's own use????).  My only point was show me ANY administration that has given attention to this 'addiction.'

In short, your comment was a weakly disguised grabbed opportunity to bring politics to this board.  This is not the first time in the past week or so you've done this.  I find this kind of comment "flamebait" and it certainly seems to have been successful in that regard (since I replied to it, and now you've replied to me, etc, etc).  So, in the interest of trying to preserve what is left of the dignity of SailFar, I will not comment on this further.  Say what you want - you may now have the last word.

Good point Capn Smollett...we really shouldn't let politics interfere with the more important business of sailing and building boats if necessary. 

If I were to build the Flapdoodle, I probably wouldn't build it as a sailing dinghy, but simplify the plans and make it a basic rowing dinghy...to keep it as light and simple as possible. 

sometimes it is a tender path we tread...

Quote from: s/v Faith on November 01, 2006, 05:16:45 PM
I should not have thought that a thread on tenders would turn political... ::)

  Anchoring maybe, but not tenders.  ;D

  My vote is that each be allowed to choose their own.  I guess I am more of a libertarian wTR the prickly tender issue.

  Unlike life and death matters (like one's choice of sealant) there is a tender out there for everyone, and I think they should find their own way.

Quote from: Zen on November 01, 2006, 06:32:43 PM
sometimes it is a tender path we tread...

Quote from: s/v Faith on November 01, 2006, 05:16:45 PM
I should not have thought that a thread on tenders would turn political... ::)

  Anchoring maybe, but not tenders.  ;D

  My vote is that each be allowed to choose their own.  I guess I am more of a libertarian wTR the prickly tender issue.

  Unlike life and death matters (like one's choice of sealant) there is a tender out there for everyone, and I think they should find their own way.

  Well put Zen, is this your tender side? ;D ;D ;D

On the lighter side.....did Alberg ever design a tender??  on the political side all I have to add is  " I like eggs"

 ;D

  Grog for Frank.

And briefly jumping back to politics on a more global level...the European Union does indeed take a severe interest in private boat building. You are not banned fomr doing it...but the government will come along and rate and assess your boat whether you like it or not (well, kind of, an unrated boat will be considered a rowing dinghy even if it is 75 feet long and designed for the southern ocean.)

Those ratings will henceforth effect everything form the kind of insurance you can reasonably get to visas issued and resale advertising.

They did it with "mostly" good intentions, but the result is kind of the standard protectionist and biased hodge-podge of over-regulation that has lost sight of the initial safety goals.


And that is what happens when you decide to throw your safety and personal responsibility onto ANY government's errr... tender [/i] mercies.


Alex.

The Flapdoodle - I like it! Really interesting design, it bears more investigation...

--------------------------------

The other "flapdoodle" (the political flapdoodle, particularly as it relates to the dominant parties here in the US, which our international friends could probably care less about...) well, there's plenty of other, more appropriate places to discuss it elsewhere on the interweb, that's my thinking.

We're sailors here, *not* politicians (yuk), so let's discuss sailing stuff, OK? :)

In other words: Don't make me start breaking legs, either left or right ones, capice? ;D

--------------------------------

Grog for Frank, too, even tho' I'm not a huge 'eggs fan'. :P

And with my twisted sense of humor, I had a great laugh at godot's post. Thanks! :D

Last, there is lots of dignity here at sailFar. I just saw some, over there somewhere. Hold on a sec, I'll get it...

Ah! Here it is! Oh, wait, that's an old sandwich... Hmm...

;)

howdy!!  i bought a used, very, very old inflateable.  i live aboard for 3 months in florida every year.  that means a long hot off season for my boat.  i am scared that if i deflate my dingy and leave it in the hot cabin of my boat it will be ruined due to the heat and of course it will deflate in 9 months.  this year i hauled the thing home and kept it softly inflated all year. F_ _ _ that!  i won't do that again! anyone with any tips or experience with this???  thanks in advance.  Peace.

Cal,

Welcome aboard!

I have owned a few inflateables, but can not say I have ever seen definitive storage advice other then keeping them out of the sun. 

  FWIW, both of the Avon's I had came with stowage bags, where they could be rolled up and stowed.  So at least Avon did not discourage doing this.  :-\

I have seen inflateables in racks that seemed to suffer from failures at the seams from being allowed to slowly deflate an transfer stresses where they did not belong.

  Anyway, mainly just wanted to say welcome aboard.  Feel free to post an introduction on the thread in the discussion forum.

Link ==> Introductions / How did you find sailFar.net? (http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=756.0)

I have a 12 foot Achilles Sport boat I bought in 1981. Used it several years cruising and since about 84 or so it's mostly been stored rolled in it's bags. Seems none the worse for long packing to me. I think the secret is to prep the surface with something. When mine was new, the official recs were for Armor All. That has sorta fallen into disfavor lately but there are other brands of "stuff" you can use.

I'm considering an inflatable dinghy, due in most part to the great sale prices that are being pushed the last couple of weeks.

Mercurys seem to be the least expensive, followed by Walker Bays.  Have heard some disturbing reports on the Mercs, good things in general about the Walkers (roto-molded and blow-ups.)  Anybody have actual experiences that they can share?

Thanks,
Kevin

If you buy either one, Buy or have made STRAIGHT AWAY a UV proof boat-bra cover type thing. Keeping off the UV and preventing the micro abrasions of sand and shell will dramatically extend the life of the materials these dinghies are made from. It is worth the extra money.


Alex.

P.S You can get nifty pockets and things sewn into the cover that allow good storage of various stuff in zippered and secured locations...better then having them flapping about.

Kevin-

Also, make sure you get one made of Hypalon, as opposed to PVC.  Much more durable material than the PVC.

Quote from: AdriftAtSea on January 29, 2007, 02:25:54 AM

Also, make sure you get one made of Hypalon, as opposed to PVC.  Much more durable material than the PVC.

So, even with a 5-year warranty, you wouldn't consider this one by Aquastar (http://www.allinflatables.com/shopping/boats/aquastar/sport/js310.html); it would live most of it's life when not in actual use rolled in a locker (out of the sun).

I was just excited to see a 10 ft, 4 person for under $1000. (Haven't shopped around, yet, but this thread got me curious to do a quick check on some prices).

Lot's of info on dingys, inflateable and otherwise in this thread;
Tenders/Lifeboat/dinghy and such (http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=869.0)

  I have owned 3 inflateables (4 if you count my mini).  I don't care much for them.



_{Edit to repair link.}

Quote from: s/v Faith on January 29, 2007, 11:45:08 AM
Lot's of info on dingys, inflateable and otherwise in this thread;
Tenders/Lifeboat/dinghy and such (http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=596.0)

  I have owned 3 inflateables (4 if you count my mini).  I don't care much for them.

Craig,

That link seems to be broken.  I looked around for the thread, but could not find it.

Quote from: Captain Smollett on January 29, 2007, 12:41:43 PM

Quote from: s/v Faith on January 29, 2007, 11:45:08 AM
Lot's of info on dingys, inflateable and otherwise in this thread;
Tenders/Lifeboat/dinghy and such (http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=869.0)

  I have owned 3 inflateables (4 if you count my mini).  I don't care much for them.

  Thanks John, it's fixed now.

Craig,

That link seems to be broken.  I looked around for the thread, but could not find it.

Dinghies!  Gotta have one.

A pal has a hard dinghy which he named "Paint Assasin."  In the areas I have cruised inflatables rule.  Possible exception is Maine where the classic yachts almost all tow a classic wood dinghy.  Maine is nice because that's how it is.

In the Caribbean, Hypalon is the required material and Yamaha is the preferred motor.  During my J28 time, I had a 2hp/4 stroke Honda on a little Avon softbottom.  Two people were just fine.  later, I skippered bigger yachts with bigger dinghies. The bigger dinghies had bigger engines, 15 hp Yamahas.  Heavy.

My requirement after two years of experience is that the motor must be easy to lift off the dinghy and onto the cruising boat on a choppy day.  I put up with the soft bottom/air deck inflatables because they are light, easy to bring aboard and stow, maintain, protect from theft.

The Sunbrella Bra for the dink is a SUPER thing.  Worth the money several times over.

Tips:  Make a bridle for the dinghy that allows it to be hoisted free of the water at night.  Usually we bring the dink up to the level of the toerail.  It doesn't get run over by some drunk, stolen, keeps the bottom clean, and has style points.  Pull the drain plug/install the drain plug.  Paint the name of your boat in large letters on the dinghy.  Reduces the "theft incentive."  Lock outboard to transom.  In the Caribbean, we have to chain+lock dinghies at public docks.  Probably a good idea in some high transient cruising areas stateside.  Sad but true.

Best, norman

A hard bottom is probably OK ..IF you can deck store it. I've never had a deck big enough. I replaced my VERY faithful (still)2hp ,23yr old yamaha with an end of run/on sale tomatsu (spelling?) 3.5hp....SAME wieght..29lbs!! Cruises at way less throttle and enough power to get out of its own way too if windy.Easy to put up on stern rail bracket I made. I use a rollup dingy..stores small for xings and fairly stable. It rows like I sing...NOT WELL! You simple can not tow a dingy offshore...OK ya can , but sooner or later ( I had 2 later experiences) it WILL bite ya.

Agree...
Hard bottom inflatables are for yachts with BIG foredecks.  We stowed a 10 footer on the deck of the Bendytoy 445.  Thank goodness for electric winches.  Otherwise electric winches are pretty much a pain in the ...

In Antigua, the hard bottom was stolen (later recovered and a story for a bar-meet).  A great guy loaned me a rollup Avon.  I bought a replacement Tohatsu 3 which Elizabeth/cubemonkey and I used on the rollup without complaint or incident.

Towing offshore.  Ha!  tried it.  Nothing lost because I quickly learned not to tow offshore.  My eye-opening experience was crossing the Anegada Passage, to windward in 20+ kts making 7 through the water.  (I had my 45 foot race-boat then.)  The Avon held up fine but I was a nervous wreck.  Afterwards, we stowed it on the foredeck or deflated and put it below.  Below is best.

A pal found a little 6 foot inflatable in Brazil which he uses on his MiniTransat 6.5 (21 ft) sloop.  Same motor for the boat and dinghy.  Cool.  He and his GF get around fine in it.

Best, Norm

When it comes to Dinghy stowage I would love to have room for a dinghy to be stored on deck. But apart from that I don't want a bigger boat.

My boating in Jersey has always involved boats kept on drying moorings, so a dinghy has always been required. Usually for trips of no more than 200 yards. But used to be for 1/4 mile or so. And when visiting places can be a lot further.

My "answer" is a 9 foot Avon Dinghy (Hypalon). The one I have was bought s/h (it came with a long since sold boat) about 10 years ago. and was probably about 10 years old. My father has two Avons. One he bought new in 1977. and another of around the same vintage he also acquired as second hand with a boat......he keeps the second one as a spare. Just in case  ;D

I appreciate that these are expensive to buy new, and they do need some care (a wash down with a hosepipe every now and then and by not leaving them semi inflated / submerged chained to a pontoon for several years..........but from my own experiance they do pretty much last a lifetime..........and no need to sell them when you dispose of the mother ship. Of course I do not know how they last in the Tropics!

When you're out cruising..it seems everyone wants more electronics?? Your boat becomes 'home'..your dingy is your car. Simply put....less electonics,biggest anchor you can carry(secure your home) and best dingy you can carry(safer car).On windy days, you will appreciate both much more than more electronics!!

I have a SeaEagle dinghy, maybe 8', that came with the boat.  I inflated it once while I had family visiting.  Now, I've always heard how much better an inflatable is for a small boat, so I didn't expect any trouble.  But I found that using the darn thing is easier said than done.

The biggest problem was inflating the beast.  Frankly, I just don't have anyplace big enough on-board to put the thing as I inflate it, so it ended up half over one of the life lines up on the fordeck.   I can live, sort of, with the location; but reaching all the different inflation points (I don't remember, maybe three or four different points) with the manual (never again) pump turned out to be one of the toughest things I've yet done on a small boat.  I never did get the inflatable floor up to the pressure it should be at. 

Pulling it back on-board, deflating it, and stowing it was worse.  It's not THAT compact.  In fact, finding a decent place to store it below decks is another challenge.  It is always in the way.

Hard dinghy suits my personality; but not the way I currently use the boat.

So I'm thinking that an inflatable kayak might be the answer.  They should paddle reasonably well.  They should store compactly and I think be easier to inflate.  Carrying capacity might suffer.  Also, getting into the durn thing without going swimming might be an issue.  I think I'm going to buy one of the cheaper sevylors next spring and give it a shot.

Quote from: s/v godot on January 30, 2007, 04:05:23 PM
Pulling it back on-board, deflating it, and stowing it was worse.  It's not THAT compact.  In fact, finding a decent place to store it below decks is another challenge.  It is always in the way.

Hard dinghy suits my personality; but not the way I currently use the boat.

So I'm thinking that an inflatable kayak might be the answer.  They should paddle reasonably well.  They should store compactly and I think be easier to inflate.  Carrying capacity might suffer.  Also, getting into the durn thing without going swimming might be an issue.  I think I'm going to buy one of the cheaper sevylors next spring and give it a shot.

I agree that Inflating and deflating onboard is like struggling with a greased pig. Day to day I tow it or leave it on the mooring. Going somewhere, I sometimes tow it when I know I should deflate her, but can't be bothered! Have acquired a s/h electric Dinghy inflator / deflator, will see how this goes in pratice next year.

On the Kayak front, I was thinking of something similar - mainly for a bit of excercise, but i also thought that the shape may be easier deal with onboard.........hope springs eternal  ;D

Quote from: s/v godot on January 30, 2007, 04:05:23 PM
..... I've always heard how much better an inflatable is for a small boat, so I didn't expect any trouble.  But I found that using the darn thing is easier said than done.

..... I just don't have anyplace big enough on-board.... I can live, sort of, with the .....back on-board, deflating it, and stowing it was worse.  It's not THAT compact.  In fact, finding a decent place to store it below decks is another challenge.  It is always in the way......

  Having had a few of these things in the quest for a happy dingy aboard a small boat I believe I would rather try to maintain a small heard of goats aboard then stow the average inflateable.


  Yes.  You heard me right.  I said goats.

I don't get it. We have never had a problem stowing inflating or deflating our dinghy and we have a 26foot boat, with a babystay that renders the foredeck useless for dinghy storage.

Lesson one was to get a dinghy with only two airchambers. We also own a sevylor 3.8meter dinghy that has about 7 or 9 and some are underneath and some are boston valves and some are the inlfatable toy squeeze-valves....nightmare.

So firstly, TWO airchambers and secondly boston valves. Thats it. We use a 12v high-flow electric airpump that I rigged a 1meter hose to and made a nozzle that exactly fits the boston valve and does not pop off unless you give it a half twist.

Pull out the rolled up dinghy form the aft deck locker.
Attach the two loops of rope that live at the pointy end of the pontoon to the top pushpit rail, allow to unroll just far enough to expose the valves.
Attach nozzle into the chamer that inlfates botht he side and the bow of the dinghy and inflate (takes a little under 1 minute)...this also introduces the force to unroll the dinghy fully (it is held curled up by the painter).
When this is inflated, transfer the nozzle and inlfate remaining chamber.
Now tie the painter onto the stern cleat and release the loops that had been holding it to the stern rail. The boat is now in the water.
Climb into the boat with the floor panels and arrange them, then take the double-action hand pump and top up the chambers to the correct stiffness. I always like to finish this with a hand pump as it gives better control and you never ever really get a boat properly inflated with an electric pump. Stow the hand pump in one of the onboard bags for later adjustments of pressure, grab the outboard and stuff off the stern of the boat and hook up...Your set and done.

No hassles and no "greased pig" moments. Those happen when you get caught out in a bad situation and feel you need to do big drastic things to fix everything fast.
As things stand it takes about 5-8 minutes t fully launch the dinghy from opening the locker to puttering away...I could do it faster in an emergency but that is  the relaxed version. Stowing takes maybe a minute longer. Using the stern rail to help provide the base for rolling the boat and getting the painter arranged ready for next time you need the boat and a few other little details are the key. You come up with a proceedure and you stick to it.

I've been looking at inflatable kayaks also.

Lots of information here

http://www.theboatpeople.com./index.html

http://www.paddling.net/

Trying to find one of decent quality, but not too expensive. Something tough enough for exploring rivers and creeks, not just a tender. Enough capacity for 2 people, but can be used by 1 person. Not too tippy. Should move along nicely, not a pig, and have a tracking skeg.

Pretty soon you're talking real money.

Anyway, I'm leaning towards getting an Innova Sunny. Best price I found was here

http://www.bbskis.com/pages/inflatable_kayaks/sunny.htm

Ugly beast

there is a string of responses about delays and some production problems with the Walkers but the owners have been very happy withthem once they have been received. this was posted on the SSCA discussion board.

I looked at the question of dinghy's for a long time. The main question  would be - Do you need to store it? How often do you want to fix it?

For an Off Shore passage, Yes. Going to the Bahamas, Well. Not really if you have a good weather window and willing to waite. You also must be willing to replace the painter often with 1/2 poly.

I would buy a dinghy only as large as a storage place below. 

I bought a Portland Pudgy and the 8 foot dinghy does fit on deck of my MacGregor 26M with a few inches to spare. Although a real pain to put there and hard to see over with more windage than I would want. I only put it there during storage. It does not plane but I have a boat that has 1 foot draft, 5 mph is fine. It also is 100% plastic and is very rugged. The abuse that I put this binghy through the first day I would have had to repair an inflatable. No dinghy butt, does not take water when boarding, holds 600 pounds, small and cute (girls think so), tows well, ect..

Just to mention the alternative.

Quote from: Lynx on February 11, 2007, 01:38:46 AM

I bought a Portland Pudgy and the 8 foot dinghy does fit on deck of my MacGregor 26M with a few inches to spare. ...  No dinghy butt, does not take water when boarding, holds 600 pounds, small and cute (girls think so), tows well, ect..

Just to mention the alternative.

For those curious, you can see more about the Portland Pudgy Here (http://www.portlandpudgy.com/) and a quick pic:

(http://www.portlandpudgy.com/LaForce%20%20sea%20of%20cortes%20med.jpg)

IIRC, the Portland Pudgy also has a sailing kit and a "liferaft" kit that you can buy for it.  It does win bonus points in my book since it isn't the standard grey of most inflatables...  I like the fact that it is relatively easy to spot.

Everybody knows chicks dig purple

(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q30/commanderpete/paddler.gif)

Hmmmm, where does one get info on this?

Quote from: Zen on February 11, 2007, 07:01:37 PM
Hmmmm, where does one get info on this?

Ummm... can you clarify your question a bit... Capn Smollett posted a link to the Portland Pudgy homepage, so if you're asking about that....look there... if you're asking about chicks digging purple... I couldn't tell you where Pete is getting his info..

Works for me

(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q30/commanderpete/crocs.jpg)

You can get custom colors, Purple too. I mine is white.

Has anyone had any success with the Coleman inflatables?  I'm wondering about one for 2-300 yard rowing trips to the dock/shore in local waters.

Quote from: boblamb on February 14, 2007, 10:48:22 AM
Has anyone had any success with the Coleman inflatables?  I'm wondering about one for 2-300 yard rowing trips to the dock/shore in local waters.

Bob,

  Grog for having the courage to ask.   ;D

I have a Coleman (or similar) raft stowed in the bottom of my cockpit locker.  I have had 3 different inflateables, and all have either been too big to stow on a small boat (in my opinion). 

  Faith is not a boat used to scheduling much, she pretty much can wind up taking off on a moments notice, and Rose and I have been known to turn a daysail into a couple night trip.

  I have the hard dink, that I take when we 'plan' to go overnight, but our son (four legged) needs to have his shore call a couple times a day so we got the raft just in case.

  When we brought the boat down from Yorktown, we did not bring any kind of dingy at all.... it was a real pain not having anything that you could go ashore in.

  I think the raft idea is ok, so long as it is not going to see any kind of weather.... and you are far enough away from other boats when you use it to not embarrass yourself.   ;D

Quote from: s/v Faith on February 14, 2007, 02:18:10 PM

and you are far enough away from other boats when you use it to not embarrass yourself.   ;D

You mean like this:

(http://sailfar.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10005/normal_014._12.Aug.2006_1036.jpg)

;)

The Coleman 2 Person (http://www.avidoutdoors.com/col4aafloatc.html) looks pretty similar.  For $43.00, I'd say it's worth a little embarrassment.

For $43 it would be worth having to access the blackberry bushes at this anchorage at Mandeville Point on the San Joaquin River in the Delta!

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/BobWessel/90406MandevilleAnchorage.jpg)

Prelude has enough room in the cockpit lockers to stow one of those!

Anyone here can do it. I read a lot of times that folks don't have the nohow and tools, and even the location to build a small dinghy. Well I am her to tell you thats just not true.

This is a finished dinghy of 13 foot, 12 foot on the bottom, made out of a couple of sheets of good plywood. The thicknesses can vary depending on your uses, whether it be 1/4" in the bottom or 3/8" for heavier duty. Of course if you wish to reduce it to the eight foot size, 1/4" and a ibt of epoxy doing it tape and glue works fine too.

This boat was built on  a set of sawhorses, with a skillsaw, jig saw and a grinder to clean the edges and to shape a couple of parts. I shaped the bottom and installed a few framing components, and then used 1/4" luan and a couple of battens to get my patterns and  then transfered these to some good okume plywoods. Of course if you purchase any small boat plans, they will already give you what you need. Just transfer the measurements to the good sheets of plywood. Or if you are new use the 8 bucks a sheet plywood for practice before you cut the good stuff up.

Like I stated, you can still do this type of hull with epoxy fillets and glass tape. But I chose to go a different route because I had the parts of wood and the issue of sensitivity of the epoxy. This boat was built in 40 hours to launch. Its run by a 6 hp Yamaha four stroke engine.



(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/DSC00927.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/DSC00930.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/DSC00943.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/DSC00952.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/DSC00956.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/DSC01009.jpg)


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/DSC01024.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Bateau1/DSC01023.jpg)

Folks- I should point out here that Mike had this idea for a small outboat boat on Feb 1st. The pics taken of him running the boat were on Feb 21st.

TWENTY days from concept and design to afloat under power.

He done GOOD ;D

Mike,

That's a beautiful and inspirational dinghy.  Used to be I didn't think I had the know-how, but that's not the case any more. Someday, though,  I will solve my space problem and build me a dinghy, too.  Seriously, living in an apartment leaves me no place to build - or store - a boat.  So, I'll keep looking at, and collecting, designs against that day when I've got more than a 6' x 12' patio full of stuff. :)

Only problem I see with that very pretty dinghy is that it is far too large to store aboard almost any of the boats we use on Sailfar.  :D

There has never been a boat too small that a dinghy cannot be adapted to using this process, even with the many features of the nesting dinghy builds. There are plan sellers that actually feature stock plans for rigid hulls that will indeed store on deck if you do not wish to tow it.

http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/


http://www.messing-about.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5297

Check this out, actually using the feature to carry his boat inside an RV.

(http://www.messing-about.com/forum/files/thumbs/t_van_fit_179.jpg)

Why didn't I think of that?

(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q30/commanderpete/hoist.jpg)

Oh that was so 1980s. ;) Heck I can build just about anything that will fit on deck. But the ease of walking into Waste Marine and walking out with a "sheetrock" bucket, or a "blowup" doll is hard to beat for the mid range boat guys. I personally just like something different which many of the nesting plans have offered for a lot of folks. I didn't need it and want the split unit as I will be using this hull independent of any other boat hull in most cases for now.

Mike,

Did you design the boat yourself or work to someone else's set of plans?  If your own, was it just for the satisfaction, or did you have specific ideas that weren't addressed on other dinghies?

Kevin

Well where do I begin without rambling here. First came a new custom built sailboat that I needed an engine, which was also an interim boat for a larger cruiser to be built for a true retirement hull, something thats more favorable for my needs and potential longtern boating.

But along those lines I needed more than just a simple two hp power engine that was also needed as an aux. engine for the sailboat.  I also needed t be able to move any dinghy around with just my wife and me and when you leave past the eight or ten foot size, its hard to do so.

I need more room than what most on deck tenders allow in the interior space since they are so small. I also felt the need and wish to have a boat to gunkhole down the road, and rest on top of the proposed cruiser which also created some handling of a larger hull than the liteweight eight footer that is pretty easy to handle and to rest on top without some weight issues of a larger hull.

Yes I designed and built this hull as a combination hull that will also allow me to use it independent from any hull, gunkholing and to allow me to also use an engine that will also work as an aux engine for the 23 footer now.

So you see the transom which is raised from the side freeboard to accomadate the long shaft that was required for the 23 footer that will also give me more than just a pusher engine to get ashore for stores.

Many plans now require the method of epoxy and glass tape, which also increases the costs of the small craft and additional work for mixing, filleting, and gluing, and also down time for the epoxy to dry during the severe cold weather that we have had this past month.

This created what you see, okume plywood, which is pretty liteweight, and meranti a more durable bottom plywood. I framed it out of cypress, a medium density that is not that heavy, but hold fasteners okay, which I also had and is pretty good when dealing with the elements.

I have a very bad habit of building for a specific need for all of my boats, and have never really found too many production products or plans that fit my taste either.

I hope this has not been too confusing. When I write, I have a bad habit of rambliing on, taking for granted that others are perfectly good mind readers of what I am thiking about.

As a side note, I received a PM but hit the wrong button for a reply. So that is why you did not receive a response. I am not too computer literate.

Oh SURE Mike.....






  ...build your own dingy....   :P





Classic lines, Cypress gunnels.......   ::)






OK... FINE!   >:(



  ........Sure, it may have more class then MY dingy......





But!






  You know what...? 


  There is One contest it will NOT win.... ???  ???










She ain't gonna win any 'ugly dingy contests'...    ;D








Just teasing, man, that is a nice dink  ;D :D ;D :D

LOL!! Well I have never been much into contests for sure. I just like successfull ventures, of course from my perspective. Victory from  my perspective is when I get up in the am, and all designed  components are in working order.  ;D I actually had a fellow on my second outing stop me and ask me if the boat was for sale. He need a larger dinghy or simular hull that was semi portable to go across to his bird watching island so he could carry the additional goodies that was required for his SWMBO to replace their kayak. I told them a larger kayak was still cheaper as not to cause him any pain of impulsive decision making.  :(

I have a 25 foot Cheoy Lee Frisco Flyer, and it's got limited storage room.  I want to have the 8-foot Achilles, deflated, in a bag on the foredeck for Mexico cruising.  I have some thoughts about the bag, and would appreciate input.

I messed around with the inflatable, transom mount, seat, floorboards and oars until I thought I had found the best neat, compact way to package them, and designed a bag to fit.  I plan to have a bag made as follows (unless you folk have better ideas):

The material will be medium weight marine vinyl with polyester backing, sewn by my excellent, inexpensive canvasmaker; a zipper will run the length of the bag, with a zipper cover which closes with Murphy fasteners- these days called swivel fasteners.    Shape will be rectangular, the down side flat and the upper side rounded. There will be reinforcing straps, and I doubt that a pro sewing machine could handle them, but may be wrong...I will probably have to add the straps with a hand sewing awl.  There will be wide dacron strapping over both sides of the outer edges, all the way around.  Two additional dacron straps will run diagonally across the bag, each of them secured for about six or eight inches at each of the four corners, and with a quick-release metal buckle; each of these straps can be tightened and loosened.  At each corner, where these straps are sewn on, there will be a loop, and a fairly large stainless carabiner in each loop.  These will fasten to screw eyes, made by ABI, which screw into fittings recessed into the deck, and can be removed when not in use.  These fittings will have backing plates.

There will be handles for carrying.

The thought is that I could store the Achilles on the foredeck unless I got into pretty unpleasant weather, in which case it would go into the cabin.  I could also remove the bag to transport the inflatable. 

Ideas?  Comments?

That actually sounds like a pretty workable scheme for storing the dinghy.   However, it might just be simpler in the long run to have padeyes or screweyes in the deck and then lash the bag down using rope.  You really don't want the bag to move at all if possible.  Six folding padeyes would do the trick quite nicely and still be out of the way when the dinghy is stowed below.  If you want to make it easy to lash down, make two 1/4" shock cords, with five hooks, that go between the six padeyes in a M shape... One forward, one aft. In good weather use just one to secure the dinghy, in heavier weather, use both.

Just make sure that you can get to the foresail in a blow and the anchor.

How heavy is it? Will you be able to get it below when it gets ruff?

Your Mexico passage should be less than 1 week, can it be stored below?

Hi Wayne - Welcome Aboard! :) Grog to ya' for joining, and for having such a pretty vessel! ;D

Sounds like to me you have it all figured out, and that it would take some serious action indeed to make you have to stow the bag belowdecks. The only thing different I would do would be to add a few of those deck fasteners (3 to a side?), just to make smaller the amount of exposed bag between anchoring points. Since they are removeable/addable, you could use 4 at the corners usually, and only add the extras in prep for a big blow.

As my Mexican friends would say, "Mutchos garcias."  (Ouch!  Put down that winch handle!)  All comments much appreciated.

I measured pretty carefully, and access to the anchor and chain/line locker should not be impeded.  In fact, this setup should give me a place to sit while launching/retrieving the anchor in calm weather.

I especially like the idea of adding two more securing points.  Those recessed eyes are great, but pricey (something like $51)... but Ernie Minney's used-gear chandlery is having its celebrated Swap Meet on June 3.... I swear, if it weren't for that guy, a lot of us Left Coast types could not go cruising.

Thanks again, & thanks for the welcome.  Hope this little project works out!

Best-- Wayne

Wayne-

Probably not a good idea to sit on the stowed dinghy, as it can cause some problems with damaging the fabric of the dinghy IMHO.

I hope that Dan doesn't take this the wrong way, but - hey Wayne, ya only live once - go ahead and sit on the boat. :D

When I first got my Walker Bay dink, she was almost brand new, even tho' she was 2-3 yrs old at the time. For a while, I fretted about keeping her that way. Then I took a trip, and had 40 miles of following sea. She kept running up and into the stern of my boat, at the time a Com-Pac 23D, and it soon became exasperating. The only easy fix out there was to tie her right up on to the stern quarter, literally. The rest of the run - she was no problem.

Then when I got to port I discovered that the corner piece of stainless on the CP23D had chewed up the rail of the dinghy, making deep scratches and gouges, and all of the sudden the dinghy was new-no-more. And ya know what?

Didn't make a poo of a diffference in how much fun I had, and have had, and will have, with the dinghy. She's a lil beat up and battle-scarred, but she works, and the wear marks she has have all come from my *using* her, and that makes all the difference. Using her to help make memories, not just keeping her as a showpiece. Things are just *things*, and the only way they stay New is when you don't use them, which, to me, means you aren't *living*.

My dink - she could still be pretty and scratch free, but my life wouldn't be any better for it.

Things wear out; memories never do.

We should own things; they shouldn't own us.

Sit on the boat, Wayne, and have a toddy at sunset for me and my dinghy. :)

I apologize for waxing somewhat poetic, but I met a bunch of cruisers today (some of which may join us here eventually), and when you are around people who are just *living*, well, I guess it wears off on ya. :)

CapnK-

The onlyy reason I mentioned it...was that an inflatable with a hole is not so useful as a dinghy... doesn't hold air so well.  A walker bay can take a lot more abuse and still serve its function as a boat's "car".  My Porta-bote gets beat up...but can take it... my inflatable dinghy I take a bit better care of...

CapnK - If you have a 60 foot tow line instead of a short painter, would the dinghy hit the stern in the 40 miles of following sea?

I recently got one of the water toy tow ropes 60' x 1/2 (maybe 3/4) and was happy with the 120 mile tow but it was not in any seas to speak of.

Towing a dingy offshore in any weather other than near calm...(remembering weather changes quickly) will sooner or later bite you..it simply will be trouble.

Agree completely. We have towed our Minipaw offshore for several days at a stretch, even in some heavier weather. NOT HEAVY weather but we were reefed and had the jib reefed, mostly to slow down.

I tow offshore with the definite thought fixed firmly in mind that the dinghy is expendable. Should the weather turn really snotty and that dink cause the big boat problems, that towline would be cut in a heart beat. If you are gonna tow outside, that has to be your mind set.

I've cut away a dinghy once before- a 12 foot Achilles in the Chesapeake. We later recovered the dinghy but at the time it was cut loose it had become a danger to the mother ship, so away it went.

We are currently searching for an inflatable that is small enough we can deflate and stow in a cockpit locker, in the Vee berth  or on the main cabin sole when offshore on a prolonged voyage.

'Butt' Dan, how many people have truly pointy posteriors which poke holes when perched upon? ;D yukkity yuk

Sure, I understand there are bad scenarios possible, but I really don't think it likely that the occasional use of the rolled dink as a seat would make that happen. The inflatable I had, when rolled, was basically a solid mass - pressures on it when rolled never had such a deleterious effect. Ask "Psyche", who bought it - it looked almost brand new. The things are tougher than you would think, or at least than I thought they would be.

And this - life rafts, made from similar or the same materials - think about how tightly they get packed - yet they can sit like that for years, but must inflate and hold air (possibly for months!) when deployed. I would think that those probably get some *serious* creasing, to be able to fit into such a small package.

Anywho - how about some Possibilities, with your concerns in mind: Wayne could put one of the seat slats on the top of the roll, inside the bag, spreading the/his weight across more surface area, or maybe he could incorporate a cushion onto the outside of the bag for the same effect, whatever... With reasonable caution, it wouldn't harm the fabric if it was sat upon. And being up on the foredeck, it _will_ get sat upon, accidently stumbled and stood on, etc etc...

Lynx - That particular day was really light air with a rolly sea, and I was basically on a run - not the best conditions for that boat, only making a knot and a half or two, really slow sailing. I tried running the dinghy far out, close in, off either side, two lines, etc etc, but regardless she would race back and forth as swells passed under her, and then jerk up short and hard against the tow line, almost yanking the CP23's stern around. The kind of stuff where you just cringe every time you hear the snap of the line and the creak of the cleat.

What I really could have used was a 6-8' piece of tubing, PVC or maybe even rigid hose material, so that I could have made a more solid connection between the boat and the dink. It would have been a much better arrangement.

Frank - yer right, and I feel the same as CJ - if it's towed, it's expendable if need be - it has to be.

As an aside, tho' somewhat related - There's a book out there, out of print now, titled something like "The Boy, The Cat, and Me". It's the story of a guy who traveled from NYC to the Keys in a small sailboat (25'ish), way back in the 30's or 40's, IIRC. (I believe Craig/Faith is reading it now.)

Basically, they did the trip well before there was an ICW like we know it today. The funny thing: the 'dinghy' they towed was 15', with a motor. !!! It did cause them some trouble, but a couple of times it helped to save their bacon, too. Neat story, and doesn't have much to do with Frank's comment, but I just thought I'd put this out there. If you can find the book, it's a good one. :)

Charlie3, it's likely you've taken a look at the Achilles LT-2.  That's the smallest hypalon inflatable I know of, and folds up into a pretty small and lightweight package.  I suspect it might be too small for some small-boat cruisers; probably good for two people and a few groceries.

I enjoyed the "sit on it" debate. 

Achilles has a new small inflatable... the LS-R2U, which is the smaller sibling of the LS-R4U, and seats two people.  I just got one back in April at Defender's annual sale.

Actually we are sorta searching for one of the planing boats- the sport boat type, rather than the dinghy type. I hadn't found info on the newer ones as yet. We'll be seriously looking later this year.

Found a Mercury with wooden floors, but it's PVC. We are debating whether that would hold up long enough to make it a good buy. Probably packed away a good bit of the time, it would. But the small Mercury is exactly what I'm looking for- wooden floor, inflatable vee bottom, planing boat.

Of course I'm going to have to sell my 12 foot Achilles sport boat first  ;D

And it fitting two people is fine. Laura is 5'2 and I'm only 5'8 and 165 pounds. Together we weigh less than 275, so a small boat is no problem.

Ummm...Pretty much every inflatable is a PVC, Hypalon is justa  spray on coating that protects from UV and binds the surface against some abrasion. Want to take an educated guess about how much hypalon coating is left on most boats that are 5 years old or more?
As soon as you need to do your first patch, and they get you to either mechanically (sandpapaer) or chemically (primer) strip off the hypalon layer so your can glue direct to the PVC...that it. The hypalon will shred and peel away fomr that point until its no longer on that pontoon.

Fortunately...You can get hypalon reviver in a can from zodiac/bombard/sevylor. It may even provide a coat to a baot that has never had it before.

Personanaly, I think the best protection for an inflatable is a boat-bra. a giant tea-cosy type cover that the boat wears. made of ripstop nylon with that vinyl inner layer, it weighs almost nothing and protects totally form UV, somewhat form abrasion by sand and such and fom anchoring sealife like barnacles. It also means you can take the cover home and throw it in the washing machine to amke your boat all new and clean again.

Ours was custom made and we had zippered pockets sewn in that hang into the body of the boat. Great for storing stuff (torch, couple of flares, some spare rope, a little double-action inflator and a compass are permanent residence of one pocket. If we could afford it, a hand held VHF would join the list. I am not afraid of dying on my yacht, but the possiblility of motoring back to the boat from some beach party at 2am, not knowing about a local rip, having the engine faulter and being swept out of the bay in the tender is a scenario I would rather avoid. Which is why the front pocket hold the folding anchor and some rode.)

Alex.

Alex-

Actually, IIRC, both PVC and Hypalon are coatings over a base layer of cloth, usually nylon or polyester based.  Many hypalon boats are generally made with a laminate of hypalon on the outside, the fabric, and then neoprene on the inside. PVC boats are usually just a layer of PVC-coated cloth, which is why PVC boats are often lighter than their Hypalon counterparts. Hypalon boats do not have PVC in them as a general rule.

A good read on the differences between Hypalon and PVC inflatables construction/features is here (http://www.freewebs.com/dsharp/weldedorgluedseams.htm).

Some newer inflatables are being made from a polyureathane-based material.  The Zodiac boats made from their Strongan fabric are an example of these.

Quote from: CharlieJ on May 12, 2007, 07:23:13 PM

Found a Mercury with wooden floors, but it's PVC.

I understand the hesitation to go with PVC.  It will be years, if ever, that we spend long periods in the tropics or with the dink in high UV exposure.  It spends far more of its time folded in a locker or the back seat of my wife's car.

Personally, I am looking at PVC dinks to replace the one I have now (also PVC, being replaced due to size and some other features, not wear and tear).  Everything has to be weighed on a cost-benefit basis, and the added initial cost of hypalon is, to me, not worth it right now.  ANY inflatable dink that is used will get worn and torn and will require repair, so higher initial cost is the key deciding factor, for me at least.

YMMV as usual, but I just wanted mention that I too was thinking about swimming against the hypalon current.  In an ideal world with unlimited funding, sure, I'd go hypalon.  Here in the real world, I have to compromise.

Yeah- my 12 foot Achilles is Hypalon and I bought that boat in about 1980 or 1981. It's still in excellent condition even after being packed away for years. It did travel all up and down the east coast, either being towed behind the tri or upside down on the netting up forward.

But it's just plain too big for us on Tehani. So I'm intending to sell that one and purchase something in the 7 foot range. So far the Mercury looks pretty good for size, weight, features and cost.

I have spent most of this week performing laprascopic surgery on an older Bombard that is made of Hypalon. I called the official dealership/repair shop to get some advice and was told that they are indeed a hypalon coating over PVC over fabric (I left out the fabric bit in my initial post, it seeemd entirely obvious).
This is why the glue they use for patching s indeed a PVC glue (never contact adhesive).

The varying weights you mentioned have far more to do with the thickness of the fabrics and the type of join, and its assosciated overlap. The machine zipped PVC dinghies made by mercury and quicksilver (same beast, different tag) are lighter because the PVC coating is just plain thinner over the fabric core, and because the seams have virtually zero overlap.

The older Hypalon Bombard and Zodiac boats had hand glued seams and they had a LOT of overlap...like 3 inches or more depending on the diameter of pontoon. there was then a vinyl wear strip glued over the top of the seam to cover and protect it. This is a heavy!

The modern zodiacs have gone over to a propriatery mechanical welding system that does use an overlap (actually it uses a roll-around seam and a cord of something that becomes consumed int he welding process, leaving a seam that "grips" itself and is very strong, efficient and lightweight...Until something goes worng, because you will never ever be able to fix it properly out in the field. (that is if the seam goes, normal patching is unchanged).


Alex.

When I was in Marathon Fl this March, the VHF said that there was a dinghy found and was looking for the crew. The boat was latter found and the captian said that he had to cut the dinghy off. There was about 4 hrs searching for them. Latter that week there was another 2 dinghy's reported to be cut loose for safety reasons.

If you do loose your dinghy while under way, please report so that there is not a needless search.

Towing a dinghy all the time does have it risk of loosing it. I do wonder how many dinghy's have been lost just because the line was worn due to abrasion or Sun and could have been prevented with $ 30 worth of line.

This raises the question - When do you replace the dinghy paniter/tow line?
In the tropics with poly lines it is recommended to replace (on edit) every 6 months due to U/V damage.

Well, firstly I would use nylon instead of poly rope. Poly is cheap...that is about the main argument in its favour. If you would buy a ferro cement hull because it is a bargain, then you should use poly rope to tow around expensive gear.

Its a false economy.

Hmmm...I think I am having an especially grumpy day in the light of the dinghy repair failing.

Secondly, there are ways to "tow" your dinghy that radically reduce your chances of ever losing it, and decrease drag.

(http://home.armourarchive.org/members/sasha/dinghy2.JPG)

(http://home.armourarchive.org/members/sasha/dinghy3.JPG)

See, even on a small boat there is a way.
Only the ends of the pontoons trail in the water, it does not twist and drag and bump.  And it will not snap its painter or get wrapped up around a pilon that you have to do a tight manuever around (seen that!).


just a thought.

Alex.

One reason a lot of people use Polypropylene for their dinghy painters is that it does not sink, and is far less likely to wrap up around a prop. However, given how weak it is, and how easily degraded by UV it is, it isn't such a great idea for long-term use.  I would recommend using one of the new spectra core lines, like New England Ropes T-900.  It is a bit more expensive than plain nylon or polyester rope, but I believe it makes sense.  I believe that T-900 also floats, due to the Spectra core, and the polyester cover gives it far more abrasion resistance and UV protection than polypropylene line has. 

Nylon Tow-weave floats. It is what we use in coast guard for our tow lines.

It is pretty UV stable.

I would hesitate to use spectra based product (or even double braid) because the nylon has some shock absorption and stretch...and spectra just doesn't (though it may well be "slick" enough to slip a really well tighed knot).
It probabaly does not make a huge difference, but anything that has some give to absorbe wave shocks and spare the attachment point on the dinghy from just tearing out one dark night rather appeals to me.

If I was towing with spectra or double braid, I would make a catenery weight (does not need to be much 4-5kg would do) and slide it to half-way along the rope. One of the best such things we ever improvised was a fender half full of water. It could still float when it was in the drink, thus not posing a threat when the yacht slowed down and the rope got pulled under, but heavy enough to put a curve in the rope that needed to be unbent before a shock load could be registered.

worked really well, and still finctioned as a fender afterwards (albeit a heavier one).


I like arguing with Mr Drifty, it forces me to consider and weigh my conclusions and assumptions. I just happen to be confident I am right about this one.

;D


Alex.

Interesting discussion here. We don't have a dinghy (yet) for Averisera. I like the pics of your solution Alex. We have a very tight stern as well, and that my do the job. I haven't even started looking at dinghies, so this discussion has gotten the brain cells working.

-elizabeth

The poly line does float. I have docked and watched my polly line touch my outboard with the prop just 8 inches underwater and the poly line did not get sucked into it.  Nice.

There has been some discussion  on dinghy line streach, The point is - Will the weight of the dinghy actually streach the polly line unless it is Very thin?

I bought this one - 5/8 - 60 feet long to tow my Portland Pudgy in the open water. I keep it close when it gets crowded. Only towed 225 miles so far.
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product/10001/-1/10001/51953/10001/391/390/23

Cheep enough to replace every 6 months.

I was using a rather large inflatable relative to the s/v.  In open water unable to have it on deck in an inflated condition I chose to tow it.  I knew it had a good chance of being expendable at sea.  I tied it astern crosswise (bow to port rail, stern to starboard rail) with the starboard side of the inflatable raised as high as I could get it, so that the port side of the dinghy dragged in the water.  I also crosstied it so that it would not shimy around.  I can't claim that this is the way to do it but it worked for me.  It took on only a few pints of water with largish following and cross seas.  Honestly I was surprised and thought I was pretty lucky.

that's it.  btw I posted this idea somewhere else but in response to not being able to make decent emergency repairs I offer again the suggestion to jettison the pvc or contact cement patch glue and get a can of PVC pipe glue like a plumber uses.  I like the blue one.  Works great on the  inflatable.

tom
s/v joanie joan

A friend and slip neighbor of mince has assured me that my dingy 'Mr. Smiles' will be a source of misery in the islands.   :P

Denis is a Flicka Sailor, and I respect his opinion.  Anyone made any progress in the quest for the 'perfect' inflateable?

 >:(

No, but I'd sure like to make some progress.

Got to sell my current Achilles 12 Sport boat first though. It's too large for Tehani.

Quote from: CharlieJ on June 25, 2007, 12:38:05 PM
>:(

No, but I'd sure like to make some progress.

Got to sell my current Achilles 12 Sport boat first though. It's too large for Tehani.

I would like to have found a used one in the size range I want ( 9 ft or so ) to save some $$, as your 12 footer is likewise too large for us.

But here is the 9'6" boat we are buying:  Saturn SD290 (http://www.boatstogo.com/inflatable_boat_sd290.asp).

I was hoping to put off the purchase of a new dink at least until next year, but Tuesday's mini adventure makes about the fourth repair need on that boat in about two weeks.  It just was not heavy duty enough for true tender service.

Just a couple thoughts on what is working for us WRT inflateables.

As I mentioned in the 'dingy' thread, I have gone through a small fleet of inflateables.

  One of them was an older Avon Redcrest, that I had hoped would stow well since it has a soft transom.  I was not impressed with the way it stowed, or rowed so I sold it.

  Shortly before Rose and I left on our trip, I was persuaded that the hard dingy we had 'Mr. Smiles' was not going to cut it for us in the  anchorages we were headed for.

  I started looking for another inflateable, all the while getting Mr Smiles ready to go.  I was out on the dock one day, putting a fresh coat of paint on it when the guy I sold the Avon to walked up.  He mentioned that he was looking for a hard dingy as he was now going to be on a mooring.  He asked if I would swap the Avon for the hard dingy and I agreed.

30 year old dingy

  When I registered the Avon, I was surprised to learn that it was actually manufactured in 1977!  It is in amazingly good shape for a 30 year old rubber raft!  I think that Halypon is some pretty amazing stuff.

  It has the older style A-4 valves, and they don't seal too well, but with the caps on them they do not seem to leak.  I have added a couple pumps of air a week to it since we left, but it has never needed much more then that.

  Anyway, I wanted to share a couple of the things I have done to it that have made it much more useable.

Solid Floor

  First, I had a plywood floor that came apart in sections to stow.  It was a major pain to install and take a part.  I was talking to my friend Dennis, and he suggested a single piece floor of 1/4" plywood painted in fiberlass resin.  I took the break apart floor as a pattern, and made a one piece floor that was just about 8" shorter on each end so that it could be installed.  I also cut an oval that was about 8" x 14" near the stern so that I could bail out the water that was bound to collect between the floor and the plywood.

  Dennis was right, and this single modification has made the dingy much more rowable, and greatly increased the comfort for passengers.  I guess the flexable floor absorbed too much energy when it was rowed... it is much easier to use now.  The week we spent at anchor near Beaufort SC we did not even mount the outboard.

Noodle Keel

  Next problem was the lack of directional stability.  Rowing was easier, but a slightly uneven pull would cause you to slide sideways.  I did not want to invest in an add on inflateable keel, so I went to the dollar general store and bought a pool 'noodle'.  These foam tubes are hollow, and will take a piece of 1/2" PVC pipe nicely.  I wrapped the ends of the pipe in a generous amount of duct tape so they could not get to the halypon floor and cause chafe.  I then ran some line down the center and tied it to the lifting eye inside the bow and to the floor aft.  This keeps the 'keel' centered.

  It did work well in assisting tracking while rowing, and makes it much easier to steer when being pushed by my little 3hp johnson outboard.  The benefit that came as a suprise was that it also tows much better.  I guess the 'V' bottom holds the tubes higher out of the water, but it does not seem to drag nearly as much.

The 'Potty Barge'

  (http://sailfar.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10014/Dingy.jpg)

Security

For security, we have a padlock on the motor mount, and one on the motor when installed.  We can attach a light piece of ss cable to either lock at the dingy dock.  I know that wire can be cut, but it is better then nothing which is what most of the dingies use.

Security II (Patches)

  In looking for a patch kit for my spares kit, I learned that West gets almost $70 for a tube of glue and half a dozen patches!  I found another kit they sell for $30, and it comes with the same tube of glue and twice as many patches!  It is packaged in a Grey canister, and if you peel off the 'West' label you see it is actually the 'Avon' patch kit!  For half the price.  So I looked all over for one of these, and found it.  I later came across 3 more in the 'clearance' section of another West store.... I guess they wanted to get rid of the competition for their own kit.  I bought them, and then used the first one to patch any and all spots that looked like they might be ready to fail.  The net result is a dingy that looks like it was regularly hung on a cactus to dry  :o .... hardly the dingy a thief would see much resale value in. (I hope).

Registration Numbers

  Our bow numbers are simply painted on with spray paint.  I see the number stencil packages at West, and see they get something like $30 for them.  I used some extra 3" peel and stick letters.  First I taped off a 4" x 30" area on either side of the bow, then I painted it white (color chosen because I happened to have it on hand.)  I then placed the 3" peel and stick letters on the white paint, and painted over them with grey paint.  When it dried, I just peeled the letters off, and it actually looks great.  A couple months of daily use later, and they are holding up well. 

Oars

  I have a set of the break down, wooden oars that came with the other Avon Dingy I once owned (and R-280).  The problem is that they are in like new condition, and retail for over $150.... so I am afraid to leave them in the dink.  I was going to buy a cheap set of aluminum shaft oars like I had from Mr. Smiles, but even the cheapest set was $22 an oar...   I looked all over, and finally found a pair of paddles at K-Mart.  They had the same paddles ('Sea Clear' I think) in the marine section for $17 each.  I found mine in pool toy section, near the pool rafts.  They were $10 each, and have worked well.  I actually find I like the small 'T' at the end of the paddle, they let me wrap my thumb around them and gain a little control.   I have the good oars stowed aboard if I need them, but the paddles are working great, and I like the way they work.

The pool-noodle idea is ingenious. :D

Just remember, the stainless steel cable doesn't have to be cut-proof.  Most thieves are just opportunistic bastages... and if the cable makes it less convenient to steal than the next dinghy over, they'll take the next dinghy over instead. 

It's like if you're out in the woods and you and your friend run into a hungry grizzly bear, you don't have to out run the bear, you just have to out run your friend. :D

Quote from: s/v Faith on October 15, 2007, 08:28:07 PM

Noodle Keel

  Next problem was the lack of directional stability.  Rowing was easier, but a slightly uneven pull would cause you to slide sideways.  I did not want to invest in an add on inflateable keel, so I went to the dollar general store and bought a pool 'noodle'.  These foam tubes are hollow, and will take a piece of 1/2" PVC pipe nicely.  I wrapped the ends of the pipe in a generous amount of duct tape so they could not get to the halypon floor and cause chafe.  I

Given my limited knowledge of English, I don' really get it. What is a 'pool noodle'? ??? This posting describes exactly what I've been thinking of doing to my own deflatable dink. Haven't yet figured out the details though. The pvc tube for electrical cables is my starting point though... You don't think you could post a pic of that little 'installation' do you?

Since I am swedish, and we are about handing those Nobel prizes out, right now, I guess I could suggest a 'Boater's  Nobel Prize' for you...   ;) ;D ;) ;D

Quote from: AdriftAtSea on October 15, 2007, 11:01:30 PM
 

It's like if you're out in the woods and you and your friend run into a hungry grizzly bear, you don't have to out run the bear, you just have to out run your friend. :D

;D ;D ;D ;D That's some food for thought upon the choise of friends, erh?   8) :P

maxiSwede -  a noodle is a water toy. It is a long round foam with a hole in the middle. Can be lots of fun.

Swede, think heavy-duty pipe laggin insulation made of semi-rigid close cell foam.

You would use them quite a bit on water pipes running outdoors where you are.

Alex-

I don't see why that wouldn't work as well as a pool noodle.  The only issue I see is the pipe insulation is usually split all the way up the side... so you'd need to tape it closed, so the PVC core couldn't work free by accident.

Hi all , been reading here for awhile , this is my first time posting.
I just sold my Cal 29 with an inboard and bought an Ericson 27 w/ O/B.
The question I have is can I use the 8 hp honda longshaft O/B on an inflatable dink for
next winters Mexico trip? I don't want to waste money and space on a dedicated dink motor
unless I absolutely have to.

Welcome! I'm sure someone will answer your question in no time (bunch of great skippers in here) One thing I know is that I don't want to remove my 9.9 outboard (87 something pounds) from the boat once I'm in the water.

Gus

sharkbait,

  Welcome to the board!

I think you will be able to use the outboard, most 'long shaft' motors have a 25" shaft,  which will cause your transom to flex under a bit more then it might with a short (typically 15") shaft.  I have a 20" shaft yamaha 6hp in my well, I mounted it on an avon R-280 inflatable I had for a while and found it flexed the transom a bit.

  I do not use the Yamaha for my dingy, as it is a chore to remove and replace.  I prefer a smaller (I have 3hp Johnson, and Yamaha outboards) for the dink.  They are quite a bit lighter then my 66# Yamaha and it is a 2 stroke. 

  If your Honda 8 is a 4 stroke it is likely to weigh quite a bit more.... might be a real handful to lift on and off the boat.

  Glad to have you aboard, look forward to hearing more about your boat and travels. ;D

 

I used my Johnson 8 HP long shaft on the dink last year.  I never got above just a crack over idle cuz I did not want to torque the transom.  But, it worked; for me, it's not a long term solution, though.

I really depends on the dink and your strength. What can your transum handle? Do you have another way to move the motor off the boat and onto your dink than by hand? Have you tried it at the slip/Dock?

I have a 2 hp Honda, 28 pounds. I can move it with one hand while the other is doing something else. I see a lot of these around here. Pushes my hard dinghy at 5 mph without a problem.

As a reminder. Always tie off your motor before moving it.

While you could use it on the dinghy, I wouldn't recommend using a long-shaft OB on a dinghy.  The prop will be much lower in the water than it should be, and will exert more torque on the transom, since it isn't right below the transom as it should be. Depending on the type of dinghy and the construction, it might be okay short term, but definitely not an ideal situation.  Also, the long shaft will increase the effective draft of the dinghy, making approaches to beaches and such more difficult.

I haven't bought a new dinghy yet.The old one was sold with the Cal.
I just saw an 8' RIB on craigslist for $600

If you are in the market for a new dink, I'll mention Saturn (do a google search for Saturn inflatable).  Very well made boats - they were designed for and used by the ROK military; we bought one last year.

Just be aware, all the Saturn inflatables I've seen are PVC, and I don't believe they're made in hypalon.

Yes, that's right.  But  there is little problem, imo, with PVC for a boat that spends MOST of its life stowed in a bag out of the sun. 

Very true, but that isn't necessarily how the OP plans on using it. :) 

If he's planning on leaving the boat inflated and stored on deck, or towing it, he may want to get a hypalon dinghy instead of a PVC one.

*I apologize in advance if I missed a pertinent thread in my search concerning this subject*

I'm beginning to deal with the 'dinghy problem' for my Yankee 30.  I'll be cruising fairly extensively and really want a hard dinghy, specifically a 7' Fatty Knees with sail kit.  An inflatable would obviously be easier to stow, but I don't want to lug around an outboard and gasoline.  My obvious problem is stowing the hard dinghy, the Y30 has a baby stay that keeps stowage on the foredeck difficult, so it'll probably have to go on the coach roof under the boom. 

So...
If anyone has some thoughts on this or pictures of your hard dinghy stowed on your boat I'd be very appreciative.  I'm trying to find a 7' Fatty Knees to borrow from someone to try it on my deck before I spend all that cash.  If anyone has one in Seattle I'd love to borrow it for a very short time just to check it out.  BTW I'm at Shilshole.

Thanks.

Think PortaBoat. Here is a photo of ours folded. On the stbd. side deck.
http://www.svguenevere.com/photos/jeronimo.jpg

That's how we carry an 8 foot dink on a 27 foot boat.

Here is a shot with it setup next to us, ready to go snorkeling.
http://www.svguenevere.com/photos/guenlobos.jpg

Greg

Thanks for the pics Greg.  What size Portabote is it?  How have you found the performance?  Do you use an outboard or oars?

I'd second a portabote.  I don't have photos of mine, but have a much larger one than theirs.  I have the 12' 6" portabote, that was originally bought as a fishing rowboat, but has been seconded to use as a big dinghy.  I store it along the ama deck when it is folded up, which really isn't an option for you AFAIK. :)

Thanks Adrift -
I have to say that I pretty much dismissed the portabotes right off the bat.  I'll investigate them some more.  IIRC they have sailing kits for them as well.  I've heard some disparaging remarks about how well they do depending on the size and power options, i.e. outboard vs. oars.  How do you feel the performance is?  Would it stand up to years of full-time cruising?  Any thoughts are appreciated.
WF

WF,

We have been using PortaBoat full time for over 8 years now. We like it a LOT. The last 4 years +/- full time cruising.

We have the 8 foot model, and we have updated to the new seats.

We do have a 3.5 HP outboard for ours. I can lift it with one hand (2 stroke), and it will plane the PB with one of us aboard. It will not plane with both of us or a lot of shopping stuff.

We do not use it without having the oars aboard. YES, it dos row very nicely. MUCH better than a deflatable.

I was thinking about putting a sail kit on it, but the factory one does NOT look good to me. If I ever decide to add it, I will make my own.

Greg

The major caveat I'd have for you are that the newer models come with a plastic transom and plastic seats that aren't all that durable.  From what I've seen, the plastic seats and transom break down under UV and get pretty brittle.  Mine came with the plastic seats, but had a wooden transom.

One of my projects later this year, is to make replacement benches for the boat as well as fiberglassing over the wooden transom, mainly to improve durability.

As for how well they do... they row a lot better than any inflatable, and are far more durable from what I've seen.  Under power, they handle better than inflatables, except for possible the high end rigid floor inflatables, which are probably even bulkier than the PortaBote to store, since the floors on the rigid floor inflatables don't fold or collapse in any way.

BTW, I would highly recommend installing several folding padeyes on the Portabote to make attaching lines and such far easier.   I used Wichard folding padeyes, so as not to interfere with the boat's folding.

fwiw, here's a photo of my nester sitting on my boat.

Thanks all for the responses.  I'm going to see if a Fatty Knees fits and meanwhile will research the portabote more. 

I wonder why Walker Bay 8' didn't come up? We are planning to buy one in summer, remove the boom vang and  install double boom instead so we can put the dink under the boom. Any bad (and good) experiences with Walker Bay? We were thinking about Fatty Knees, but the price is twice as much as for walker bay.
Many thanks

The Walker Bay 8' dinghies, from what I've read and seen are pretty wobbly... far more so than a PortaBote or inflatable.

Just found a photo of our Porta boat at work here in the Sea of Cortez.
I put a coating of Sunbrella on the gunnels to protect the sides of our boat.

(http://www.svguenevere.com/2007/gear/dink.jpg)

Greg

Greg, you dog!  Sending me that picture from Cortez!  Sea of Cortez will be my first stop and I loosely plan to spend up to a year there.  Have some friends that are building a 'cruisers community' in San Carlos - just a place to grab a warm bed, hot shower, or use the workshop and will be based heavily on barter and will also be environmentally friendly.  My daily thoughts are constantly of Cortez. 
Anyway, looks like the portabote does well enough.  I'm one of those poor saps that won't have an outboard aboard, so it's rowing or sailing for me.
I'm hoping to take a look at a Fatty Knees in the next few days, I have my doubts about it fitting under the boom - ?  I'll keep everyone posted and will take some pictures.

WF,

The Sea of Cortez is a GREAT place to cruise! There seems to be an anchorage around every corner! We have spent 3 years in the Sea.

If you have not had the chance, take a look at our "Position Reports" on our web site www.svguenevere.com.

We have put a batch of photos, like that one, on it.

Greg

WF,
will be interested to see what your impressions of the "fatty knees" are.
i really like the way they look and they've been described as light weight.
but its my understanding that the eight footer weighs a hundred pounds.
light for some, but a fairly good wrestling match to get consistently on the deck by yourself and without any collateral damage.  the halves of my nester are probably no more than thirty pounds.

Fatty knees are good dinghies, no doubt about that, row well and are fun to sail, and are ''cute'', but definitely not ''light weight''. On my last boat, we had to rig a small pole to the mast to lift it with a harness we made, it worked well and was practical enough for one person to handle the dinghy.

Greg-  I only hear great things about the Sea of Cortez.  I've run into your blog before and will go over it again.  Some great information there.

vinegarj-  I'm looking at the 7' FK.  I have a baby-stay on my boat that really kills the foredeck for dinghy storage.  Beam is 9' and I have anywhere between 20"-24" under boom clearance.  Other than an inflatable I'm going to have a hard time stowing the dink, it is what it is.  The 7' is about 90lbs, which may not be easy at times, but well within reason for me.  I've seriously considered buying, building or modifying an existing dinghy to a nester.

Mananna-  I've thought about how I might haul the dink aboard and have some possibilities.  I'll figure it out because I'll have to, but if you have any pictures of your system I'd be all eyes.

I've also seen an El Toro for sale in my area.  Looks like a possibility other than the weight, it's all wood.  Does anyone know the weight of the El Toros?  Any comments on it as a dinghy?  Again, the weight may be prohibitive, but I'm considering all options.

well- how about this one? 6'6" Minipaw from B and B Yacht designs.

Light enough for you?

Must be quite light! 
Update - I can't get people from Craig's List who are advertising their dinghy to respond!  I'm sort of sick of thinking about it all so I'm considering just ignoring it as I have been the last 9 months, except I'll be cruising this summer so I'll need something.  All I know is I'm going to sail this weekend and then I'll figure it out.

CharilieJ - I'll investigate B & B Yacht designs, do you have an web address for 'em? 

Sure do-

http://bandbyachtdesigns.com/

Graham and Carla are great folks to deal with too. You might peruse the nesting dinghies that have also.

We recently sold that Minipaw, because although it would fit on the bow of our 21 footer, it will NOT go on the bow of our 25. The cabin structure is simply wrong, so we're going for a very small inflatable.

Something that can be rolled and lashed behind the mast, under the boom. I'd prefer a hard dinghy, but if there isn't room, there isn't room.

MJ-
my nester is also a B and B design (Catspaw).  They're easy (and fun for the most part) to build and there's a builder's forum for their designs where somebody can answer any questions that come up in the building process.
if you can stay disciplined, i think you could build one start to finish in forty hours (total) or less.  And with the housing bubble, plywood prices have come down....

Domestic, not so good for boat building ( like fir) plywood has dropped.

GOOD (such as Okume BS 1088) boat building ply has actually gone up slightly. Bought 6 sheets of 4 MM Okume last week for $312.

I wouldn't even attempt to build one of Graham's designs using less that  top grade boat building plywood. PARTICULARLY a design with a lot of curve to it.

Just not worth spending your time to build a nice boat, with second rate materials. And sadly almost ALL US made plywood these days is second, if not third rate. My personal opinion and I'm a professional boat builder.

And here's the forum for building B and B designs-

http://www.messing-about.com/forums/index.php?board=2.0

CharlieJ -  Thanks for the link.  At first glance I LOVE the nesting ones.  I'm still at the point of potentially trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, but you're right, if it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit.  I think I'll be able to find a hard dinghy that works, I'll just have to find the RIGHT one.

VinegarJ - I'd have to agree in principle with CharlieJ that if I'm going to build one, I'd want it done 'right', whatever that may mean.  I know I'm being unrealistic trying to find the PERFECT dinghy(for me and my boat) right off the bat, but as they say, "Aim high..."

The Fatty Knees 7' was sold, so I'm SOL on that one.  Haven't seen many of the 7' for sale.  I'd still be interested in hearing what people think of the El Toros though. 
Thanks all.

again fwiw, i built my nester with marine plywood.  but i've "heard" that luan five-layer plywood is now showing up at home depot sporadically.  the marine plywood i used was good stuff, but not great.  however, it was very expensive, especially for the quality.
i wouldn't be too worried about using good luan that's going to be covered with epoxy resin and paint.  either way, the catspaws only take a couple of sheets of plywood so the expense issue is kind of moot.

Good points vinegarJ.  I'm sure I could find suitable plywood to work with.  I have to say the option of building my own is tempting as I could modify it within reason to fit my needs, besides, it would be lots of fun.

Hey CharlieJ
  That Minipaw looks like it would hold . . . maybe 3 or 4 serving of oatmeal.   :D
How does it handle, and how much can it handle?

I think that a plywood dink might be a good answer (especially for trips on coastal waters or inland waters)

I really like the B&B designs, but stopped short of paying for the plans.

  I just got 'Ultrasimple boatbuilding; 17 plywood boats anyone can build with Gavin Atkin's designs.  From Edward R. Hammilton.

  Planning the next trip for the fall... now I just gotta carve out some time to build the thing.   ;D


(OBTW, I went ahead and merged this thread with the other dingy thread.  It does kind of wander, but has a bunch of info on folks experiences.... might be worth going back to the beginning and re-reading it.)

How's this for a load? Note the remaining freeboard? 

That's me up front, weighing in at 165. Mike in the rear CLAIMS 250 give or take ;D

The Minipaw has been a great dinghy. It will carry a load. It tows well and Charlie says it rows well. I can't really tell if it rows well since my rowing skills are almost nonexistant. The boat does have one annoying quirk. It never shuts up. Never. Even in the calmest anchorages I feel like I have a big thirsty Labrador retriever tied to a leash off the stern. The darn dog is always lappin' up water out of the water bowl. Lap, lap, lap. Did I mention that it never stops? Lap, lap, lap, lap, lap........... There were times when I wished  I had brought a soccer ball instead. It would have been a more gracious friend. Other times I wished I had brought a gun so I could shoot a hole in the bottom of it and sink it.

Quote from: LauraG on May 10, 2008, 12:20:03 AM
There were times when I wished  I had brought a soccer ball instead. It would have been a more gracious friend. Other times I wished I had brought a gun so I could shoot a hole in the bottom of it and sink it.

LOL  ;D Laura, I love how you are soo clear in your feelings about something. Although they perhaps don't row as easy as a hardshell, the great thing about inflatables is that they are very very quiet ;)
Plus the fact you can store them 'out of sight out of mind" makes them win-win in my book.

Tim

Yes... store them out of sight.. Well tell me where you store yours, because so far on smaller boats, those things are stored on the best bed in the boat.. the double bunk V-berth.... OK, you may not use the V-birth at sea, but still, as much as you dry it  before you store it,(if you have time, or put it in a bag) it brings humidity and sometimes smell when the bottom is not quite clean and the stuff dries....I am partial to hard dinghies, yes they row better take more abuse and are not as likely to be stolen. They are an essential part of equipment, that requires a lot of thoughts considering what kind of cruising you do. Laura, may be by putting some weight in it at anchor will stop the lap, lap, lap, or may be give it some more leash and you won't hear it that much  :)

Here's where the inflatable is stored on the Potter 19 while cruising in British Columbia.

(http://sailfar.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10375/normal_Morning_Dove_Cruising.jpg)

It fit snugly on the bow, it is a two person inflatable kayak.

I am assuming it will fit equally well on the bow of the Ariel

I store my inflatable in a storage area in the cabin, under the cockpit area.  The area is basically dead space for the most part, so storing the dinghy there kind of makes sense.  The Porta-Bote will be stored on the starboard ama, folded up.  If either dinghy is ready to use, they will sit on the starboard ama until they're needed in the water.   Of course, having an 18' beam gives me some options that you might not have. :)

lol- yeah I understand. USED to have that capability

Quote from: CharlieJ on May 10, 2008, 07:04:11 PM
lol- yeah I understand. USED to have that capability

;) (with a note of longing)  ;D

CJ.

  Do you happen to have anything 8ish ' or so for sale?  I would love to make one, but I am afraid I am being overtaken by projects.... not to mention that I am sure that you would do a better job....

sent you a PM

Hi Tim!
I've been really busy lately and don't have time to contribute much to the message boards, although I do try to drop in and see what's going on. There are times, however, when I feel like I wouldn't be a good citizen if I didn't say something.   ;)

Laura
~In search of a quiet dinghy~

My last dink is kaput, so- my next dink will be a nester or one with a removable transom.  Make it to fit from the mast to the back of the cabin, then, with the transom out, it would act as a dodger.

I'm a little late to this thread, so forgive me if I cover things that have been already hashed out. Just finished my dingy out of two sheets of plywood. Will hold three adults. Took Hannu's boatyard design and enlarged it slightly. Fits perfectly on my Compac 23 (but haven't sailed it yet this way)
(http://valueexteriorpainting.com/dingy.jpg)
Its raining kinda hard in this picture but you get the idea. Fits snug, no movement of the dingy between the front pulpit and the mast step, but yet you can work your way around it on deck. Note also the oars- from an old stairway railing and some 1by6's.
Total cost- about 250 USD.
I will let you know how it sails and how easy it is to get it down once you reach anchorage.
YeeeHaw!! :D

Back on the third post in this thread I talked about the 6 or 7 tenders we had tried out....

  Well, I just bought and promptly ruled out another one.  :-[

I saw an add for a 10' canoe.  It looked fairly beamy, and I thought it might be just the ticket for a low drag tender for local gunkholing.... well I took it down tot he marina and borrowed a paddle.  It probably worked ok for the prior owners... but with my ~235# in it I did not have much freeboard.  Would not try to add my 75# lab to it even as salty as he is about small boats.

  Anyone looking for a 10' fiberglass canoe? 

We are awaiting delivery of our new dinghy. Should be here Thursday. I hope the hurricane isn't right behind it!!!

Bought an Achilles LS2RU. 7 '6" wooden floor roll up. Supposed to weigh 57 pounds and the bundle is supposed to be 10 inches tall. SHOULD fit on our cabin top right behind the mast ( rolled up of course)

Charlie-

I have that same dinghy.  Got it last year at the Defender spring sale... Nice little boat. Use a 3.5 HP Tohatsu on it. :)

Hey CharlieJ -
Where did you find the, Achilles LS2RU ?
I see there is an LS4 in the West Marine Cat.

Keep you head down! Good luck with the winds.

Defender Industries.

And it's supposed to arrive tomorrow!!! But I bet it doesn't cause we are now under a mandatory evacuation, so UPS won't be running.

And we won't be here anyway

my achilles dinghy , rolls up great can take a motor .    3 piece wood floor    perfect for small boats

When we were sailing our Potter 15, we used a Coleman to haul camping gear in behind the boat.  When we moved up to our Catalina 27, we used the Coleman briefly as a dink, but then purchased a North Pak Outdoors inflatable from Sam's Club, which holds a 30# thrust trolling motor.  The North Pak was only $150, so it is doing the job, but at nearly 10' long, it takes up the entire deck while underway.  We do deflate it and store it in a lazarette when not in use.  Our plan is to get a 7.5' Saturn in the next few months and pick up a Honda 2hp 4-stroke to move it.  I really love the Honda 2hp engines, because they are air cooled, so there is no flushing to worry about.

Quote from: BenH on September 17, 2008, 06:09:01 PM

When we were sailing our Potter 15, we used a Coleman to haul camping gear in behind the boat.  When we moved up to our Catalina 27, we used the Coleman briefly as a dink, but then purchased a North Pak Outdoors inflatable from Sam's Club, which holds a 30# thrust trolling motor.  The North Pak was only $150, so it is doing the job, but at nearly 10' long, it takes up the entire deck while underway.  We do deflate it and store it in a lazarette when not in use.  Our plan is to get a 7.5' Saturn in the next few months and pick up a Honda 2hp 4-stroke to move it.  I really love the Honda 2hp engines, because they are air cooled, so there is no flushing to worry about.

Hi Ben,

First of all, welcome aboard (saw your post in the Intro thread).

I have 9 ft Saturn and I really like it.  We've had it about one year.  It seems well made and durable.  It's a good size for us - the four of us PLUS some gear fit comfortably.

I mostly row (when I can), but this summer we bought a Suzuki 2.5 horse for it.  Top speed with our 9 footer with my two children and I aboard was about 5.5 kts.

Unless you plan to keep your Saturn inflated and in the sun 100% of the time, I think you'll be happy with it.  Folded and in the bag, mine lives either in the back seat of my wife's car (  ;D ) or on the cabin top just aft of the mast.

Thanks Captain for the welcome and for sharing your Saturn experience.  I've read every single post on this dinghy thread and there is certainly a diverse opinion spanning years on what works best as a good dink; it has been interesting to read.

I'm glad to hear the Saturn has held up well.  BoatToGo.com seems to have some really good prices, but I didn't want to hear the old "you get what you pay for" in a few months when the boat deflates making a run back to the mother ship.

I think you nailed it on our overall use.  We mostly daysail, so the dink isn't needed often, but when we do toss the hook for the weekend somewhere (about once a month when weather cooperates), then we want a stable boat to get to shore.  The North Pak serves us OK, but it is a low air pressure boat, so it feels soft most of the time and firmness changes dramatically with the night and day temps.  So we figure that a good high pressure dink would serve us much better.  We did consider a hard dink, but the stowability of the inflatable fits betters with our intended use. 

Our Achilles got here. We haven't had time to register it as yet, so took it down for a rowing session. I think it's gonna be a great little dink. However the oars are too short- they need a tad longer handles inboard.

Laura rowing on the maiden voyage-

Charlie-

What do think of it?? I've been pretty happy with mine.

Well, so far we like it.  Laura says it's easier to row for her than our 6 '6" hard dinghy was.  GOTTA do something about those short oars though.

I have an old 12 foot Achilles from back in 1980 or so and this new one seems to be higher quality. Particularly in storage bag, pump and peripheral stuff. But that boat is still going strong.  The new one looks to be better built.

Do you leave the floors in when you roll it? We did this time but the boat would be much lighter to move around rolled up without them. Would also make a smaller bundle and Laura could handle the boat onboard by herself.. I suppose we'll end up doing it both ways as the occasion rises.

Gonna be next week before we can register it and try it with a motor on.

So as a brand spankin' newbie here (gasp!)  I have just read ALLLLLLL 12 pages of this monster thread and was amazed to find I have input!  Only a little, but I have input!    Check this out...  http://www.microcruising.com/ding1.htm    It's not the cutest thing in the world, but after I found it I had to make one, using the theory and modifying it to MY slightly less than normal needs. (It's gotta fit in the back seat of my Camry for transportation to the water.)  And I'm a girl!  If a girl can figure out how to modify and make it... or should that be female?  (I'm not so PC)  Anyway, it folds thinner than a Porta-bote, and you can MAKE it as short or as long or as wide as you need!  How spiffy is that? 

Welcome aboard the site. If you want to call yourself a girl, that's fine with us I think. There are several ladies on this site who aren't much afraid to tackle anything that comes their way, so you should fit right in.

Connie is over in the Bahamas now singlehand on Pixie Dust. We haven't heard from her post Hanna, but I'm assuming she's ok.

And my wife has done some singlehanding on our 25 footer. And she's capable of handling most anything she needs to.

You can go to the home page and find links to both of their tales-

http://sailfar.net/

Wow, what a cool little dingy!  I really like the idea of that, I have always been interested in some of those cool folding dingys.  There is one from the UK that I really like.... everything about it except the price.   ;D

  I think I may have found a new project.  Thanks!

Welcome, I love that dinghy.  My son built a kayak quite similar the construction details when he was in
grade school.  I wish you had posted that last spring.  I'd have time to build one before I leave for Mexico and other places.  You are definitely a welcome addition to this forum. TJ

Hey CharlieJ -

QuoteOur Achilles got here

Can we get a picture of how you carry this unit on board?

Yup- just as soon as we figure that out ourselves.. We THINK it'll go right aft of the mast , under the boom, on the cabin top, all rolled up.

That is exactly what I was thinking I'd do with the 6'7"  Mercury RIB I just picked up.  I sure beats the heck heck out of hauling and stowing one of my hard dinghy's.  And.... I got a little 1.5 Tanaka that makes
the rowing real easy.  The only problem is I really am not comfortable sitting on the seat either rowing
or steering the OB.  I'll probably end up thowing that away or modifying it to make it sit lower in the boat.
Maybe I'll get a short milk stool.  Hmmmmm...these days it might be hard to find one....what the heck...we'll get it figured out....TJ

We took the dinghy out this afternoon to play with it with the engine. We have a 2.2 HP Merc for use on the dinghy. Went to a bayou where the water was nice and flat so we could play without worrying about wave action.

Darned little engine pushes the boat quite nicely. Faster than I expected. Won't plane it with us both aboard but it will with either of us alone. But I have to let the tiller handle go and lean way up front, then control the engine with a foot ;D It hardly knows Laura is aboard of course.

We guesstimated we were running 5 or 6 maybe 7 MPH, with us both aboard. Not shabby at all. We'll have to try it again with a GPS aboard for a speed reading.

And it's light enough that Laura can carry it around by herself- not really easily with the floors in, but without the floors, she can tote the rolled up boat quite well.

We love the thing already :D

Still don't know just when we'll get time to try stowing it aboard though.

Ordered a Saturn from BoatsToGo.com today.  Their customer service is great and they price matched a competitor I was looking into.  I didn't buy from the competitor, because I didn't feel customer service was up to par.

Anyway...  I'll update once the dink arrives.

We have our boat Lazy Dazs on the hard. We are refitting our cabin. In the pic you will see our 8' sandlapper dinghy. We have really enjoyed it.

Hey CharlieJ - How's that new dink working out?  Have you gotten it aboard for storage yet?

Nope- haven't tried it stowed a board just yet. We did tow it last week on an overnighter. We did away with the connection to the tow rings up front and rigged a bridle from loops around each stern with the lines running through the tow rings as fairleads. That worked extremely well, with no strain at all on the boat. Next we have the boat put together I'll shoot a pic.

Running with a 2.2 Merc it gives us about 5.1 or 5.2 with both of us aboard. With Laura in it by herself it'll run right at 7 and plane. We shot a short video of Laura running the boat but haven't gotten it up loaded as yet.

We have decided that the boat probably will be stowed in pieces aboard. The stated weight is 57 pounds but on my scale the boat weighs 70. The floorboards and seat weigh 23 pounds of that. so the boat bare weighs about 47. We can stow the floor boards in a cockpit locker and the remaining boat rolls into a smaller bundle, so it will fit on the cabin top just aft of the mast much better. Plus it's easier to handle that way.

But we've yet to try it. We didn't sail this Thursday and Friday because of Dentists appointments and having the boat completely ripped apart doing some re piping. Weather permitting we'll probably go out next Thursday, Friday ( our weekend)

Hey CharlieJ-
How about an update on the dink? How did stowing it away work out? And, do you have a pic of the tow set up? Are you happy with the length?

No pictures and haven't tried stowing it yet. Been just plain too busy.

The tow bridle worked very well though. We put loops around the ends of the tubes, led them forward through the already installed tow rings, where the factory tied the tow line, and forward into a loop. Then tied the painter into that loop. Resulting in towing forces being distributed all along the boat. Worked well.

Delighted with the boat.

When I get time, I'll set the boat up and shoot some pics.. We're on the hard right now, doing the bottom on Tehani.  After sanding and prepping the hull, I'm ever more happy to be sailing a small boat ;D

What does anyone think about these babies?

http://www.directboats.com/rowboats.html

If you have any of the ones listed on the page above, I would like to hear how about how nicely they row in fairly calm water and what kind of oars you use.

Thanks a bunch!
~ Suzie B. ~

A friend has the WaterTender 9.4 and loves it...

(http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/1stdirect_2048_27941045)

Also, from what I've seen, people either love or hate the Walker Bays.

Hey Suzie:

I've had a Walker Bay 8 for a number of years now. I like it as a dinghy/tender for my sailboat, and being plastic, it's very easy to maintain (although it doesn't take antifouling paint very well). It's kinda short for rowing, but the 10-foot model should, IMHO, row fairly well.

As for oars, I use extra short ones, so I can stow them on the dinghy when it sits at my mooring. If I were using it as a rowing boat, I'd go with longer ones. One thing I don't like are the plastic, full-circle oarlocks that lock into their sockets. A friend borrowed the boat once and snapped one of the oarlocks off--I couldn't replace it.

But standard locks do fit in the sockets, so all is well.

Hope this helps a bit.

--Joe

P.S. Have you tried sailing yet?

Hi Joe!

I've been on rowboats (my favorite), canoes, kayaks (once), yachts, and river cruise ships, but I don't think I've ever been on a sailboat. Yachting on a small yacht out in the Gulf of Mexico many, many years ago was grand fun.

According to the Walker Bay site, they're using steel back oarlocks on the rigid dinghies, so maybe they've upgraded from the plastic ones you had? It's good to know that you can replace them with standard oarlocks. Which kind of oarlocks did you use as replacements?

Thanks so much for responding! One more thing -- what's your recommendation for schlepping a Walker Bay dink on a car to a lake?

~ Suzie "Looking for answers wherever she can find 'em" B. ~

Quote from: Oldrig on April 22, 2009, 09:55:48 PM
Hey Suzie:

I've had a Walker Bay 8 for a number of years now. I like it as a dinghy/tender for my sailboat, and being plastic, it's very easy to maintain (although it doesn't take antifouling paint very well). It's kinda short for rowing, but the 10-foot model should, IMHO, row fairly well.

As for oars, I use extra short ones, so I can stow them on the dinghy when it sits at my mooring. If I were using it as a rowing boat, I'd go with longer ones. One thing I don't like are the plastic, full-circle oarlocks that lock into their sockets. A friend borrowed the boat once and snapped one of the oarlocks off--I couldn't replace it.

But standard locks do fit in the sockets, so all is well.

Hope this helps a bit.

--Joe

P.S. Have you tried sailing yet?

In the 60's we had one similar to the Sportyak.  It was great for what we needed when the kids were young.  It was extremely stable.  The kids could stand right on the gunwhale without mishap, and that stability was nice for me as well when cleaning the topsides. Since it was just for getting from the mooring to shore, rowing ability wasn't an issue, but with the bluff bow I doubt I'd take it on a rowing marathon.  I can't see the bottom configuration.  In the picture it looks almost flat, which wouldn't be good.  The one I had had two full length bulbs (for want of a better way to describe it, so when unloaded it rode basically like a mini-pontoon boat), so it towed fairly well.  It also carried a tremendous load.

For rowing utility, a traditional hull shape would be best, like the Walker 8 or 10, but my personal criteria would be a boat under 75 pounds and short enough to stow on deck.  Our current hard dinghy is 8 ft. long, has a rounded bottom with keel and skeg, nice entry that cuts waves when it's choppy, has a good carry (glide), and rows like a champ.  I've taken the granddaughter out and just rowed for 4 miles.  With a 3-point lifting rig, the jib halyard brings it nicely onto the foredeck where it's stowed inverted.  We've had it 35 years.  That's so long I don't remember the manufacturer.  The serial number starts with "S B Co"  if anyone recognized that.  Get the longest oars you can handle, about 6 ft. for an 8 ft. dinghy.  I have bronze enclosed oarlocks held loosely in place on the sleeves with hose clamps giving 3" of clearance between the oar ends and always perfectly positioning the oars every time, even for the granddaughter.  I don't recommend pinned oarlocks because they don't allow feathering for wind or sea state, and allow water into the interior of the oar promoting rot and shortening the life of the oar.

If you just want rowing pleasure, the Whitehall design is the ultimate for a lifetime of exercise and pleasure, but it would take an 80-100 ft. boat to carry it as a tender.  By the way, throw those plastic oarlocks away without a second thought.  Using plastic oarlocks is like using toast as stepping stones to your front door, or something else just as ridiculous.

If you are looking for a rowboat, and not a tender, then you should look for something a little longer than the average sailboat dinghy.

Here is an easy to build dory, which rows far better than any yacht tender.

http://cruisenews.net/construction.html

Hi again, Suzie,

Here are my answers to your questions, easiest first:

Oarlocks: I used full round, bronze oarlocks. I think they take the smaller sized pins, but there seem to be only two. However, if the new oarlocks have metal cores, you probably won't have to worry about this.

Transportation: This can be a problem, unless you have a large vehicle or pickup. I currently own a Prius, and the only way I can transport my dinghy to the water is to jam it into the open tailgate and drive very slowly with the gate open. Since I leave the boat at a local dinghy dock, that's not a problem.

When I had a slightly bigger car (a Toyota Matrix), I put the Walker Bay on a roof rack. However, the boat was beamier than the car, so I had to tie it kitty-cornered and drive VERY slowly.

Once near the water, the Walker Bay is easy to transport. If you've got a paved ramp, there's a little wheel in the skeg that helps a lot. If you leave the boat tied up to a saltwater dock, the wheel becomes a condo for barnacles.

Hope this helps.

--Joe

P.S. Have you looked at rowing attachments for canoes? Old Town and LL Bean both sell them--you can get a sliding seat and outrigger oarlocks, or just the oarlocks. When I lived in Maine, one of my friends had a set. The canoe was light enough to put on top of the car, and the rowing rig made it glide across the water like a rowing shell.

Quote from: skylark on April 23, 2009, 01:48:01 PM
If you are looking for a rowboat, and not a tender, then you should look for something a little longer than the average sailboat dinghy.

Here is an easy to build dory, which rows far better than any yacht tender.

http://cruisenews.net/construction.html

Very nice looking dory Paul 

(pins another project note on the shop wall  :))

Thank you, Joe, Thistlecap, & Paul, for your fine suggestions. Thistlecap, rowing 4 miles on an 8-foot dinghy – that's impressive! And you've had it for 35 years -- equally impressive! Regarding oar rot, I'm guessing that it would depend on what the oars are made out of. Interesting info about the oarlocks. Ah-h-h-h, the Whitehall!!  I would give both arms for a Whitehall Solo 14 – but then I wouldn't be able to row!  ;D Just the boat itself costs $7,000, which puts it about $5,000 outside my price range. And that's not even including the oars or the sculls ($260 - $520). But what a beauty!! Paul, I'm not a boat builder, but that dory sure does look sweet for rowing. And thank you for adding a new word to my boating vernacular as I had never heard the word "dory" before. This one looks lovely, too: http://www.gacooarlocks.com/

Joe, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. After I griped about not finding any decent info on the Internet on car topping a dinghy, Googling the phrase "tie boat to roof rack" yielded some interesting responses. I guess what folks do when the boat is beamier than the car is to lash some padded two-by-fours to the roof rack extending out beyond the widest point of the boat and then placing the boat gunwale down onto this setup. One interesting point mentioned on a forum at www.thebassbarn.com is to run the tie-down straps over the roof and the boat and then through the open doors before tightening them. That way you are tying the boat to the roof rather than to the roof rack only.

"Wheel in the skeg becomes a condo for barnacles"...ha ha ha ha! Good to know. I think the boat will be going to and from lakes with me – little chance of it getting to hang out at saltwater docks for any length of time.

I will take a look at the rowing attachments you mentioned for canoes. Interesting thought. Great ideas! Lots to think about while I'm out rowing on a big rental clunker next Monday.  :D

~ Suzie B. ~

Dear Susie,
Take a look at paddling.net.  It's mainly a canoe/kayak site, but loaded with information on moving, transporting, stowing and securing small craft.  Look under "Gear Guide" "Accessories (Boat Transportation)"  There are references for most manufacturers for any and all of this equipment, and if you read Tania Nelson under articles (In The Same Boat) she has several pieces she's written on transportation issues.

On the pinned oarlocks, if it's wood, it will rot.  The problem with the pins is twofold---the holes hold the moisture inside where it is slow to dry, and conceals the rot until the oar snaps in two.  Whether ash, spruce, or whatever, if it's wood, it will rot, and the best way to avoid such a failure is not to allow water access to the wood.  Fiberglass the oar tips and keep a good 6-10 coats of varnish on them.  An oar should age from the outside-in, not inside-out.  I had one pair of pinned locks.  The oars were beautiful with not a mar anywhere.  Then one day rowing into a chop, I took a bite on the water, and when the oar folded in half, right at the pin, I landed in the forward part of the dinghy on my back.  The inside of the oar was mush, held together by several coats of varnish.  Contrary to popular myth, even teak will rot if not protected.  Yes it takes a bit longer, but if you want, I'm presently in possession of some teak rot I can send you.  ;D 
Thistlecap

Greetings once again Thistlecap!

You're absolutely right – Paddling.net is a grand place for info on car topping small boats. However, that said, for most folks car topping a canoe or kayak doesn't have the same issues as car topping a dinghy that is "beamier" that the car itself. And actually, among the nine "car topping a boat of some sort" links I have bookmarked, one of the articles by Tamia Nelson was among them, the gal who went off to buy her first canoe without a roof rack. Ha ha ha ha! And I thought I was a total greenhorn.

With Joe's recommendation in mind, I went off in search of canoes that can be outfitted like rowboats. That was a fun journey (or another reason why I was up half the night). And then I ran into the Rolls Royce version of "canoe meets rowboat" when I found the Adirondack Guide Boat website. Their smallest version is featured here: http://www.adirondack-guide-boat.com/packboats.html. When all other boats (canoes and kayaks) have capsized or blown over in heavy water or high winds, these boats stay upright and keep going. The story of their boats' performance on this web page was fascinating! http://www.adirondack-guide-boat.com/canoes.html

Very, very interesting, Thistlecap, about the issue of pinned oarlocks. Before reading your note, I wouldn't have had a clue about pinned oarlocks vs. any other kind probably because I've never met a pinned oarlock. I ran off to the Shaw and Tenney website to read about pinned oarlocks and can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would actually want such a feature. Interesting to note that the Rolls Royce of rowboats I mentioned earlier uses pinned "rowlocks" as they call 'em. And BTW, thanks for the offer, but you can keep your "teak rot" (chuckle). Even Shaw & Tenney point out the disadvantages of pinned oarlocks but very delicately – not a whisper about "oar rot."  ;)

I know some of you on this site have been sailing since you were knee high to grasshoppers, but what about the newbies to sailing who might not understand all the specialized vocabulary being used? I think it would be great to either A) have a dictionary of sailing/boating/nautical terms (plus idioms and sailing slang) somewhere on the site or B) have links to websites with a comprehensive list of sailing and nautical terms. Or if there is already a link from SailFar.net to such a glossary, please point it out to me. That's the librarian in me coming out.

Now I have to go figure out how to "grog" a bunch of sailors on this website who have been so helpful to this non-sailor gal. And thank goodness for you folks; no one has responded yet over at the Walker Bay forum. Harrumph! ???

~ Suzie B. ~

Quote from: thistlecap on April 24, 2009, 10:19:17 AM
Dear Susie,
Take a look at paddling.net.  It's mainly a canoe/kayak site, but loaded with information on moving, transporting, stowing and securing small craft.  Look under "Gear Guide" "Accessories (Boat Transportation)"  There are references for most manufacturers for any and all of this equipment, and if you read Tania Nelson under articles (In The Same Boat) she has several pieces she's written on transportation issues.

On the pinned oarlocks, if it's wood, it will rot.  The problem with the pins is twofold---the holes hold the moisture inside where it is slow to dry, and conceals the rot until the oar snaps in two.  Whether ash, spruce, or whatever, if it's wood, it will rot, and the best way to avoid such a failure is not to allow water access to the wood.  Fiberglass the oar tips and keep a good 6-10 coats of varnish on them.  An oar should age from the outside-in, not inside-out.  I had one pair of pinned locks.  The oars were beautiful with not a mar anywhere.  Then one day rowing into a chop, I took a bite on the water, and when the oar folded in half, right at the pin, I landed in the forward part of the dinghy on my back.  The inside of the oar was mush, held together by several coats of varnish.  Contrary to popular myth, even teak will rot if not protected.  Yes it takes a bit longer, but if you want, I'm presently in possession of some teak rot I can send you.  ;D 
Thistlecap

Dear Susie B,
For any new or even experienced sailor, I'd recommend Royce's Sailing Illustrated (The Sailor's Bible since 1956).  It's a sturdy flex-binding manual (I hate to say paperback; it's better than that.), that clearly illustrates every topic, and has a nice glossary in the back.  In the illustrations, every part and parcel of the rig, boat, knot, whatever, is clearly tagged with a label.  It's about the easiest way to learn the language.  It even goes into identifying square-riggers and some of their parts.  For more advanced references, I'd steer you to the International Maritime Dictionary by Rene de Kerchove from Van Nostrand Reinhold Co, New York--OR--The Oxford Companion to Ships & The Sea, ed. by Peter Kemp, Oxford University Press, New York/London.  Stay clear of yuppie nautical dictionaries with names that read like The Yachtsman's Dictionary, The Boater's Guide to Terminology, etc. (fictitious titles).  Most of them perpetuate inaccurate information.  The quickest way to judge the quality of a nautical dictionary is to look up "dock".  If it says it is a structure build in the water to allow you to walk out from the shore or to which you can secure your boat (which is wrong, but popular misinformation), throw it away.  Dock is synonymous with berth.  It's the water your boat is floating in when secured to a pier, wharf or quay (pron. key), the things you walk on and secure your boat to.  By extension, a devise encompassing a berth (dock) for a vessel that can be floated so the water runs out thus becomes a drydock.

If in doubt, send me a personal message any time you can't find a term elsewhere, and if I'm not presently out floating around somewhere, I'll be happy to help you with it.
Best wishes, Thistlecap

Thanks, Thistlecap, for the great resources. Good to know as an almost librarian (graduating in May). I just learned recently the correct pronunciation of "gunwale." I read a lot about oars and oar locks last night. I looked at more row boats, guide boats, dinghies, etc. online, and I finally made my way over to Craig's List to see what folks are selling in my neck of the woods. I have learned a LOT in the past week -- much of it thanks to the help I have received here.  :D

Happy Sailing!
~ Suzie B. ~

Greetings All!

A big thank you to Joe "Oldrig" Sailor Man for planting the seed about rowing attachments for canoes. I actually found a canoe, with a 4.4:1 length-to-beam ratio, that can be rowed or paddled.   :D  And because it's not too skinny, it doesn't seem to need an outrigger setup. It may be the best of both worlds. It's fairly light and supposedly pretty stable in that people use it to go fishing. And yes, Joe, it's from Old Town – the Osprey 140. Some nice reviews over at paddling.net: http://www.paddling.net/Reviews/showReviews.html?prod=513

Of course, another rowing beauty that would be grand to have is the fiberglass Skua by Middle Path Boats. Interestingly, this particular boat has a 5:1 length-to-beam ratio, a larger ratio than the Osprey 140, and its beam is only 38" (the Osprey has a beam of 38.5").

~ Suzie B. ~

Hi again Suzie,

I'm glad you found that Old Town canoe--maybe you can get it as a graduation gift when you become a librarian.

The Adirondack Guide Boat (and there are several similar designs out there) is also a wonderful rowing boat, I'm told. I've seen the boats on the hard--at the Maine Boatbuilders Show, but I've never seen one on the water.

Be sure to give sailing a try, too.

Best,

--Joe

Especially sailing canoes! Rather a few of them up in the Adirondacks, too... (Canoe Sailing Magazine (http://canoesailingmagazine.com/), for examples...)

I think, of the three, I'd go with this one:

(http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=865.0;attach=1934;image)

(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u304/Robinsvoyage/Fletcherstarboard.jpg)
This is Fletcher tied up at the dinghy dock in Portland. She is 8.5' and is powered by an old Evinrude 4 h.p. outboard. She is the most stable dinghy I've ever had.. i'm sold on Zodiac forever.

One word of caution. I don't know about other states, but get some registration numbers showing on that dinghy before you get into Maryland waters. They are ( or used to be) sticklers for that. And it doesn't matter to them if the big boat is registered elsewhere- no numbers and you'll be pulling the motor off. Or paying Maryland a fee.

it's on the bench.. clearly visible from any patrol boat. That should work, right? I thought about using  sharpie on the side of it.. what about that?

I recall when we were in Annapolis- I had numbers painted on the sides of the Achilles. Had a spray cover up front that partially hid those numbers from a distance- the Maryland patrol made me remove the spray cover so the numbers were visible FROM THEIR BOAT.

I imagine as long as it's there they won't hassle too badly, but they did INSIST on seeing numbers, not just the sticker.

Our tri was documented and the dinghy was registered in Florida.

Just wanted you to be aware.

Thanks.. Maine's got the same rules in fact as Maryland, it would seem.  People in Maine suggested that I do what I did. The reg number is on there too,that was probably the first day I had it in the water.  If you watch this video to the point where I swivel the camera.. you'll see how clearly the letters are. I love trimarans,btw.

Robin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpHsdx9ES80
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpHsdx9ES80)

(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u304/Robinsvoyage/Fletcher.jpg)

I knew my MacGregor 26X doesn't have room for any but the smallest dinghy.  I have very little experience with rowing, so I didn't like the notion of a rowboat ... I couldn't see myself needing a motor ... what I probably needed was an inflatable kayak.

What I got is something different - a Saturn "KaBoat," halfway between a Zodiac-style and that inflatable kayak.  (The attached picture is from the BoatsToGo.com web site.)

It's longer than a same-weight Zodiac, but wider than a proper kayak, and the seats are atop the tubes - so I found it awkward to use the kayak paddles.  But I did find that I could row it quite well; and remarkably, it works best for me to row it sitting on the aft thwart and facing forward.

Haven't tried it except once, in the very calmest of waters (the C&O Canal, up from Washington, DC).  But it seems to do a pretty good job.

Well after a lot of thought, and a ton of scribbles on the pages. I have fallen back on my skills as a builder and am going to build the replacement dink, a Bolger skimmer. But of course i can't help but make a few changes to the design to make it fit my use better. Instead of 8'x4' size i am scaling it down by 1/8 to: 7'x3'-6" and build it from construction foam sheets and glass instead of plywood.
That way it will fit perfectly on the fore deck, and i can lift it out of the water with one hand.
;D

The boat will probably wind up being heavier built from foam than from Okume plywood and glass.

Quote from: Polunu on May 28, 2009, 01:26:07 PM
.... i am scaling it down by 1/8 to: 7'x3'-6" and build it from construction foam sheets and glass instead of plywood.
That way it will fit perfectly on the fore deck, and i can lift it out of the water with one hand.
;D

Wow, what a great project.  I sure hope it comes out well, and that you take lots of pictures in progress.  I really look forward to seeing the result!  I hope it tuns out as well as you hope (and it will not be too hard to copy.  ;) ;)

Back once again to say "thank you" for all the great dinghy ideas to use for rowing purposes. The Universe has responded, and the exact canoe I have had my eye on for the past couple of months (and was just getting ready to order after having returned from vacation) just came up for sale from a family in Kansas! The owner likes this canoe (Old Town Osprey 14' canoe that can also be used for rowing) but doesn't have the time to use it.

If this deal goes through, I shall be doing cartwheels through the neighborhood. And if the boat arrives unscathed in one piece, anticipated date to meet the lake is anytime on July 2nd or after.

I just checked the Walker Bay forum where I had posted a request for information back in April. Lots of folks looking but no responses whatsoever.  >:(

~ Suzie B. ~

Quote from: Oldrig on April 27, 2009, 04:41:50 PM
Hi again Suzie,

I'm glad you found that Old Town canoe--maybe you can get it as a graduation gift when you become a librarian.

The Adirondack Guide Boat (and there are several similar designs out there) is also a wonderful rowing boat, I'm told. I've seen the boats on the hard--at the Maine Boatbuilders Show, but I've never seen one on the water.

Be sure to give sailing a try, too.

Best,

--Joe

I have just purchased yet another dingy. I have owned something like 6 in the last 5 years or so... I currently have 3. :roll:

The one I purchased is a slightly lighter, slightly deeper version of a Walker Bay, but it is foam filled. It is not a SandPiper 8, (I owned one of those) but a nicer model that can be pretty much moved by one person easily. I bought it to use when we wanted to take the dog out to anchor out and did not want to hassle with our Avon.

I figured it out... it is a Watertender 9 (here is a little tiny picture, it is different from the other 'water tender' dinghies as it has a pointy bow.

(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:I0ofc6ZYZw78bM:http://i4.yzimg.com/miscellaneous/1266306835-2618251204218406976.jpg)

Anyway, here is the question. I got a signed bill of sale from the seller, but the boat has a HIN on the transom.... and it is not on the bill of sale. I did not think about it at the time, but wonder if there is a way to check to make sure there is not a registration in the system already for this HIN?

Anyone  Know of any way to check... specifically of a way to check Florida registrations???

Thanks,

Some more pictures, of a similar dingy (mine thankfully lacks the glued in carpet floor).

(http://www.sailnet.com/classifieds/data/9/155633DSCF1059-large.JPG)

(http://www.sailnet.com/classifieds/data/9/155633DSCF1040_edited-large.JPG)

(http://www.sailnet.com/classifieds/data/9/155633DSCF1052_edited-large.JPG)

For long distance cruising and for carrying a fair amount of supplies,fuel,groceries,etc, and for landing on a beach through the surf.  I chose a nester dinghy that was 14'6" with a tight stern but would carry a 8hp outboard. The boat (named bambino) nests into 7'6" and I can carry it in the davits or on deck.  Have gone through the surf onto at least 15 beaches in Mexico through  the surf.  will carry 4 adults, 4- 5 gallon diesel cans and groceries.
If I knew how to post a picture of it here I would.  so far my picture attempts have met with failure.
geneWj

Just finished a little sailing/rowing pram that I may or may not use as a tender.

(http://www.pbase.com/morningdove/image/124327853/large.jpg)

Nice Tim, what are the dimensions and weight?

LOA 7'8",    Beam under 5',   Weight?(don't have a scale maybe 75#)

Lotsa freeboard as you can see by this pic

(http://sailfar.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10375/IMG_3144.JPG)

I figure in rowing mode it can take 3 adults

I have trying to find a dinghy for my Ariel. Man its a female dog trying to find good dinghy for a sailfar typr boat. I prefer a hard dinghy, but storage/towing becomes an issure esp. if  going offshore or making a passage. So I came across this site http://www.boatstogo.com/kayaks_sk396.asp (http://www.boatstogo.com/kayaks_sk396.asp) with inflatable kayaks and Kaboats hybrid type vessel. Prices are reasonable and I have searched around for reviews and they seem reputable and owners seem to be happy.

Constructed from PVC and protection from UV will need to be addressed, but that does not concern me all that much.

The Kaboat is on back order and I sent an inquiry to see what the wait will be.

Anyone have any direct experince with these boats?

here's the one I've been using. 7'6" wooden floor Achilles.

Been towed some 7000 miles now :D

I've recently bought the plans for Wooden Widget's Fliptail.  Construction looks straightfoward, and it looks like a good fit for the type of coastal gunkholing I'm doing.  Small, collapsible, but easily assembled when you need it.  That said, even though it's collapsible, I still have some lingering concerns about stowage aboard my Meridian.  Perhaps it could be stored in a sunbrella pouch along a lifeline as a sort of thick lee cloth.

(http://www.woodenwidget.com/Images/flipweb.jpg)

(http://www.woodenwidget.com/Images/fliptail-gif.gif)

I decided on a Porta Bote. For my CAT it made sense,

Quote from: Zen on February 24, 2012, 09:47:59 PM
I decided on a Porta Bote. For my CAT it made sense,

I reall y like the porta-bote, but the asking price is a little steep for me this year. In about six months I will be coming into a little more more money and will be taking a hard look at buying one.  Start with a Kaboat or one of the kayaks to start and then switch next year and still have the kayak for recreational use.

I can speak more of the KaBoat, after a couple of seasons of using it.  Reasonably light and workable, but in all honesty I wish I'd gotten a better-optimized inflatable kayak instead.

My first big gripe about it is that it was awfully long to inflate on the foredeck of a MacGregor 26X.  It's a jam fit, there, between the bow-pulpit and the mast. I got a Rule electric inflator-pump for the job, and it did well for the main tubes; but I still needed a high-pressure pump for the floor.

It works better on Halcyon, the Bristol 29.9 - which has a longer foredeck. But I have had to use a foot-pump to inflate it there, because the Rule pump needs to be clipped directly to the battery and the cord isn't long enough to reach from the lazarette to the foredeck.  Oh, well.

A former colleague of mine has a Portabote that I might be able to buy - his wife was anxious to have him sell it, after his retirement luncheon. But I haven't heard anything from him about it.

I build my brother a B&B 10N. He uses it for a dink at Marathon key. Said he wishes it had a little more free-board. Kind of wet when motoring in a chop.
I would have built the 11N, only 6 inchs longer when nested.

A thread on free board on the Spindrift you might find of interest, taken from the B and B Yachts forum-

http://messing-about.com/forums/topic/7905-freeboard-on-the-spindrift/

Your Spindrift 10N looks great.  I've had my plans for a while, but hope to build mine this summer.

I decided to go the Porta-bote route. Ordered the 8ft model and will be here soon. I just couldn`t bring myself to order an inflatable tender. Will be looking into inflatable kayaks for recreation purposes in the future.

Quote from: CharlieJ on March 04, 2012, 09:27:43 AM
A thread on free board on the Spindrift you might find of interest, taken from the B and B Yachts forum-

http://messing-about.com/forums/topic/7905-freeboard-on-the-spindrift/

Just to note that I added 2" to the freeboard of my Spindrift 10N using the suggestion,

QuoteSimplest method to avoid mistakes is to draw the plans out full size, then continue the lines up: thus, extending the existing stem lines and the transom corners up along the existing lines

It seems to look and nest OK.  Hopefully, someday I'll meet up with someone with a stock 10N and we can compare them under similar conditions.  Here's my build page:
   http://svbreakaway.info/dinghy-project2.php (http://svbreakaway.info/dinghy-project2.php)

Saw a great idea on Craig's list....

http://pensacola.craigslist.org/bod/3939485484.html (http://pensacola.craigslist.org/bod/3939485484.html)

Only $140!

I love the 4x4 seat supports...

... Gotta make it strong if you are going to sea!

That is hilarious. And he drilled no holes I bet ;D

Wonder why the tire pics?

For those of you saving up for Portabotes, watch craigslist.  I've seen some come up wicked cheap from time-to-time.  We were hoping to build a nester this winter, but I think our $$ may have other plans  :-\