Hi All, I have a small microwave where the stove should be and just don't use it when on shore. I just ordered this stove to replace it. Between this and the BBQ off the back we should be set. I have no affiliation with this company, just passing along info. Cheers.
Link to Cabelas.com stove
(http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp;jsessionid=BVAQQE0CVQ1QVTQSNOFSCN4OCJVY2IWE?id=0030006517180a&type=product&cmCat=search&returnString=hasJS=true&_D%3AhasJS=+&QueryText=%27Outback+Camping+Products%27&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.22&Go.x=18&Go.y=12&N=4887&Ntk=Products&Ntx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=%27Outback+Camping+Products%27&noImage=0&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&_requestid=114754)
Interesting, this is just about the perfect stove for my 24' sailboat!
Thanks for finding it for us! Karma for this!
I took the liberty of shorting your rather long link into a hyperlink so we can see all of your post on one screen! :D
Thanks for the shorten Dougcan. I not computer savey enought to do that. I am putting the stove on my Catalina C25. Perfect fit width and depth, but I have to move the shelf down about 7 inches. Cheers.
Stove with an oven to - I'm green with envy.
Congrats on the find - good luck with the install.
Cheers!
John
That looks interesting, thanks djn. :)
(Solace, try soaking in bleach... :P )
the stove I have now will make a great home to small fish.once I get that sove you told us about....the one I have now will become an artificial reef some where in the marina.
I had read about this stove but have not seen one. please post comments about how you like the stove and how well it works on the boat. dan
really nice but it snot gimballed.probably can be rigged as such with minimal mental abilities
My 'old faithful' butane stove that I have been using for 10 years (allot) finally gave out last weekend.
I bought a slightly smaller version;
(http://www.dvorsons.com/Iwatani/Propane/cfza3.jpg) (http://www.dvorsons.com/Iwatani/Propane/IwataniPropane.html)
(http://www.dvorsons.com/Iwatani/Propane/FuelAndStove.jpg)
I found mine in a local 'ACE' Hardware for $22, they can also be had on Flea-Bay for a little less.
One butane cyl lasts for a few days in regular use, longer then the screw on propane bottles on my camp stove did.
I had put in a very low bid on one on E-bay, and got an email saying I had won..... for $2.55!
Guess I have a spare now!
(http://i14.ebayimg.com/03/i/07/a3/6b/1b_1_sbl.JPG)
Is the 'ace hardware' model normal inventory ?? I love these stoves and have never saw one as small. Are they as small as they appear?? I have one like your $2.50 model,but the 'ace' seems 1/2 the size in the box.
Dennis - are you still around? How is that stove working out? I've wondered that several times, would be interested in hearing about them, even more in seeing one and checking it out... :)
It's been a while since I looked at alternatives. Right now I have the cheap 2 burner propane stove from WalMart, but I mostly just use 1 of the burners, so it takes up more space than needed, thus I keep looking... :)
Here are some interesting finds from this morning, some are recaps, some are, I think, 'new' to the discussion...
I think I am going to get this one (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=35558), and give away my cheapo 2 burner, or if possible, chop it up for spare burners:
(http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/35500-35599/35558.gif)
I've long looked at this one (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43343), because I like the small oven/broiler, but it's larger than it needs to be for me, and space is at a premium. It's on sale, $20 off of what its cost has been for the last several years:
(http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/43300-43399/43343.gif)
Here's a new-to-me product (a propane oven (http://www.gearforcamping.com/product-p/9927-a50.htm)) that seems like a good idea, but is a bit pricey. More specs here (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0036299517178a&type=product&cmCat=search&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&QueryText=stove&N=4887&Ntk=Products&Ntx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=stove&noImage=0), it is pretty large. Still, it runs off of my fuel, so...
(http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/Item/51/71/78/i517178sq01.jpg)
Anyone used or seen this one (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0030006517180a&type=product&cmCat=search&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&QueryText=stove&N=4887&Ntk=Products&Ntx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=stove&noImage=0) yet?
(http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/Item/51/71/80/i517180sn01.jpg)
A stovetop hot-water heater (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0038862517356a&type=product&cmCat=search&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&No=20&noImage=0&Ntt=stove&Ntk=Products&QueryText=stove&Ntx=matchall&N=4887&Nty=1) that some may find of interest...
(http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/Item/51/73/56/i517356sn01.jpg)
Maybe this (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0006318516393a&type=product&cmCat=search&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&No=20&noImage=0&Ntt=stove&Ntk=Products&QueryText=stove&Ntx=matchall&N=4887&Nty=1) could be modified into a small, stovetop oven?
(http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/Item/51/63/93/i516393sq01.jpg)
And this thing (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0037993517230a&type=product&cmCat=search&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&QueryText=stove&N=4887&Ntk=Products&Ntx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=stove&noImage=0) looks like a way to make hot beverage/cooking water with a minimum of fuel. At its price, it would take a while to recover the costs, but at sea, minimal fuel usage and max efficiency would be nice:
(http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/Item/51/72/30/i517230sn01.jpg)
Last, heres a stove (http://www.gearforcamping.com/product-p/328184.htm) which can use propane, gas, or kero - giving maximum flexibility in fuels. Sorry, no pic, the site owners claim copyright on the pic (for no good reason)... ::) ??? :P
I guess the owners of the last stove have never heard of fair use, as defined in the Copyright Act of 1978. UGH. I personally like the integrated unit, that has the outback logo. Someone I know put something that looks a lot like that on their boat about six months ago and can't stop talking about how well it works. His "boss" is a fairly accomplished cook and baker, so we've all benefitted by her having a better galley setup. :D Hot, fresh cookies. MMMM...
I've used the JetBoil when I've been camping...but never really thought about it for use on a boat. My major concern is that the small canisters that are used by it tend to rust out fairly quickly in a marine environment.
As for the Stove-top hot water heater... I think it is more of a gimmick than something really useful.
Yeah, the stove top heater I just included for the heckuvit... Doesn't look like it'd do a better job than a pot and my bugsprayer, which I already own... :)
I did order the small burner. Wish it was stainless and not just chromed, but it should be easy to keep up with, and to rig. KISS.
Does the jet boil actually use less fuel / heat faster than plain old water-in-a-pot, in your experience, or is it just kind of a gimmick? I wondered about that one. The heat sink on the bottom of the boiler, it looks like it would work...
I couldn't say whether it is faster than using a traditional stove and a good pot...but it was certainly faster than the cheap cookware my friend generally carries when she and I go camping. :D I'd love to do some tests to see if it is actually faster, but its her stove.
Quote from: Frank on September 07, 2006, 08:52:27 PM
Is the 'ace hardware' model normal inventory ?? I love these stoves and have never saw one as small. Are they as small as they appear?? I have one like your $2.50 model,but the 'ace' seems 1/2 the size in the box.
Frank, the Ace hardware has got more of these in. Let me know if you would like me to pick one up for you.
My butane stove works great for cooking on the hook, or in calm conditions. I have a Magma grill / stove for the cockpit (never used, just waiting for the stern pushpit to mount it on).
I bought a Sea Swing, Sterno stove several months ago, hoping for a good place to cook underway. I was going to modify it for use with a small (primus type) camping burner. I am not thinking that the Sterno is not such a bad fuel. I am also thinking about using alcohol in old Sterno cans with steel wool (like an origo unpressurized stove).
Has anyone used Sterno aboard a boat>? I know there won't be any heat control (off / on only) but I don't plan on gourmet cooking with this think underway, move soup and coffee type stuff.
Experience?
I've always felt Sterno was great for cooking and making coffee- if you like everything luke!!
I really don't think it'll put out enough heat to COOK things. It does a great job of WARMING stuff.
We have a SeaCook stove on Tehani, modified for a kerosene burner. Laura likes it a lot.
Pic is in my gallery on SailFar and yeah, we were heeled that far while Laura was cooking. We've since changed the coffee pot out for a stainless kettle and a French Press. Takes less fuel.
.
(http://sailfar.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10069/tilted-stove-2.jpg)
Sterno doesn't cook very fast, Craig, and it is easily affected by wind, so I don't know if it would be very ideal. Seems like you would waste a lot of (expensive, relatively) fuel. You can reuse the cans.
You might want to modify it to use one of these MSR PocketRocket (http://www.msrcorp.com/stoves/pocket_rocket.asp) small canister fuel stoves. I have one, and it rocks. The fuel might/would be hard to get once you were away from America, though. If you could design your mod so that you could use alcohol when you needed, and switch to one of these when fuel was available...
(http://www.msrcorp.com/stoves/images/pocketrocket.jpg)
Another possible neat small stove is the Coleman MultiFuel (http://www.coleman.com/coleman/colemancom/detail.asp?product_id=550B725&categoryid=2005) stove, which'll burn white gas, reg'lar gas, or kerosene. No worries about finding fuel - get some from your outboard. :) I have a friend who's biked/hiked/'yaked all over the US, several SoPac islands, including a goodly piece of New Zealand, Oz and Taz, and this is the stove he has always used. Since I have traveled probably close to 1000 of those miles with him, I've seen the thing perform, and it works incredibly well.
(http://www.coleman.com/coleman/images/products/exponent/550B725_200.jpg)
But I do need to update my experience with the Harbor Freight one burner stove from the first page...
It's bigger than it looks, and I was a bit dismayed with that at first, but it is way smaller than I had before (2 burner propane stove from "WestMart" ;) ), so I've gotten used to it.
It cooks really well, seems to be hotter than the propane stove. If you order it from HF, be sure to find where on their site they have the regulators hidden, and order one of those, too! I didn't, and had the devil of a time finding one in the middle of winter...
AFA quality - the shiny chrome part is just that - thin metal, shiny. No rust or anything yet, but it's only been onboard for a month. The metal might even be stainless, I'm not sure, and the stove is not on their site at this point in time. Both the black metal pot holder, and the brass flame ring just sit there, held in place by gravity. They won't fall off from heeling, but in a rollover would become projectiles. Under the brass fire ring, the metal which goes to the control valve/knob on the front looks to be plain cast iron.
All in all, for the money, it's a good buy I think. I am not sure it's a permanent solution for me, but it is working well for now.
Quote from: CapnK on January 30, 2007, 07:11:57 PM
......possible neat small stove is the Coleman MultiFuel (http://www.coleman.com/coleman/colemancom/detail.asp?product_id=550B725&categoryid=2005) stove, which'll burn white gas, reg'lar gas, or kerosene. No worries about finding fuel - get some from your outboard. :) I have a friend who's biked/hiked/'yaked all over the US, several SoPac islands, including a goodly piece of New Zealand, Oz and Taz, and this is the stove he has always used. Since I have traveled probably close to 1000 of those miles with him, I've seen the thing perform, and it works incredibly well.
(http://www.coleman.com/coleman/images/products/exponent/550B725_200.jpg)
I have liked that multi fuel stove since I first saw it. I have never cooked over sterno, but take your word(s) for it that it is not very hot. I have carried a small alchohol stove (like a glorified beer can stove) for years, and have been happy with it's performance. I really don't care to bring another fuel source onboard if I don't have to.... (I wonder if the coleman would mind 50:1 premix...) ;D
Quote from: CapnK on January 30, 2007, 07:11:57 PM
Another possible neat small stove is the Coleman MultiFuel (http://www.coleman.com/coleman/colemancom/detail.asp?product_id=550B725&categoryid=2005) stove, which'll burn white gas, reg'lar gas, or kerosene.
That is exactly the stove I am planning on getting. I've been doodling some designs for a custom gimbal mount for it, loosely based on Baldwin's design for Atom.
Craig - the 'beer can' type alchy stoves burn much hotter than plain old Sterno, if that tells you anything. :)
I've been wanting one of the multi fuels for a while, too...
Some may find this item interesting. It's designed to heat up water using a minimum of fuel
http://www.garrettwade.com/jump.jsp?itemType=PRODUCT&itemID=106256
Oded Kishony
Does anybody have any infor on long term use of Gelled Alcohol Fuel for a stove or heating?
Link - http://waltonfeed.com/alco.html
I am trying to not put in propane system to cook on board. Looks good but I do not think cooking for months would work.
Gelled Alcohol Fuel is the same thing (pretty much) as Sterno Click for definition). (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterno)
See the thread on stoves, a couple of replies have said it does not get things very hot.
I have been playing with it, early tests confirmed that it does not get very hot (would not brown). Will press on, and post results. ;D
on edit, will just merge this in ;)
Here's a thought...
One of the biggest complaints with kerosene stoves is the need to preheat with alcohol. Apparently it is a true pain in the tail to pour a little alcohol into the preheat cup a light it without a sudden roll spilling flaming alcohol around. Perhaps it would be a good idea to take a few cans of sterno, and instead of using them as the manufacturer recommended, just scoop a little bit out into the preheat cup and preheat that way. Then there is no liquid to go spilling.
Sounds safer anyow.
While a bit bigger than a lot of the cookers listed in this thread, there are gimballed marine cookers smaller than those usually seen in the U.S. This one for example
(http://www.force10.com/63354.jpg)
is a 3 burner Force 10 with oven and broiler several inches less in each dimension than a U.S. spec cooker. It is listed as a European sub-compact.
If you or your significant other is a foodie, the flexibility of a full cooker is very attractive.
Incidentally Eno recently purchased the Force 10 line of cookers. The original Force 10 company is now called Kuuma and still sells barbecue grills and water heaters.
Of course, I still miss the cooktop from my last house before I sold out and moved aboard:
(http://www.thermador.com/art/products/hero_shots/PC366BS.jpg)
<sigh>
Quote from: s/v godot on February 05, 2007, 05:39:49 AM
One of the biggest complaints with kerosene stoves is the need to preheat with alcohol. Apparently it is a true pain in the tail to pour a little alcohol into the preheat cup a light it without a sudden roll spilling flaming alcohol around.
There's another approach that seems to be in common use as well - preheating with a wick. I cannot remember the actual name of it, but it also prevents the spillage issue you mention. You basically soak a wick in alcohol, put that on your stove burner, and light. It can be reused.
Also, I don't think the pressurized, Primus type kerosene stoves require pre-heating. It was my understanding that pre-heating is only needed for the drip-type or low pressure stoves. Well, actually the Primus type DOES use pre-heating - it's just the kerosene itsself that does the preheating until the gas generator gets hot (just like with white gas on a Coleman stove or lantern).
I have read of the 'tilley wick' (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=tilley+wick) being used for this. Seems like a pretty good idea.
Edit by Captain Smollett: Fixed Link
Nope- the primus burners require preheating also, with alcohol. if you use the kerosene you'll smoke up the boat big time.
I've used kerosene stoves aboard now since 1979. Well- actually before that since I had one on my San Juan 21 in 1973.
I even used a kerosene stove in our cabin on shore while I was building my tri. Then moved the stove aboard when we launched and moved onto the boat.
We've never found the pre heating to be a big deal and very very seldom have ANY spilled alcohol. If it is spilling, you are putting too much in. It usually only takes half a preheater cup full to do the job.
The wicks are a great idea- unfortunately we can't use one on our stove- can't reach in to use it. You can use a turkey baster or a syringe to squirt alcohol down into the cup or you can just trickle a small stream over the burner head and allow it to run down into the cup.
Quote from: CharlieJ on February 05, 2007, 10:43:24 AM
Nope- the primus burners require preheating also, with alcohol. if you use the kerosene you'll smoke up the boat big time.
Thanks, Charlie. I don't know where I got that idea from. I think I read it somewhere, but obviously got confused.
Ok,
So, we have been using the Sterno sea swing at home.... and cooking our dinners on it. :P
Yes.... it IS slow. However, if you use it with a pressure cooker it is not too bad. My First Mate is content that it will work (as an underway cooker, and as a second burner on the hook).
Yesterday I was in West, and saw they sell the same butane stove I have, but badged as a Kenyon...
(http://images.westmarine.com/full/expressiistove.jpg)
For $69.00..... :o
Anyways, they no longer are carrying the SAME stove branded as the Glowmaster. They have a few accessories for it, including a cermic coated burner fiddle. I had looked at this, and thought about buying one a while back. It was sold for $20 at West so I had gone online and not found one. I thought I would just make one.
I bought it yesterday at West on clearance for $4.60..... ;)
Similar to the Kenyon one shown here at Defender;
(http://www.defender.com/images/401940.jpg)
I have the Keynon and like it execpt for the price of the fuel cans. I always eject the cans after use. I have a the knob turned (knocked around) and loss all the fuel. Nice, tempoary system until I get the propane stove.
Quote from: Lynx on February 27, 2007, 11:46:14 PM
I have the Keynon and like it except for the price of the fuel cans. I always eject the cans after use. I have a the knob turned (knocked around) and loss all the fuel. Nice, temporary system until I get the propane stove.
I don't know where you are getting them, but I have seen widely varying prices on the fuel.
For instance, West Marine sells it for $5.99 a can, while I can buy it at the local ACE Hardware for $1.89 and now I eve find it at Walmart for slightly less.... not too bad compared to some other fuels, including the disposable propane cans. It is still more then other fuels like alcohol but not too bad.
Thanks, I did not see them at Walmart. I will check again.
The one thing with the portable stoves that you want to be careful of is that they are secured in some way during the cooking process. All it takes is one idiot in a stinkpot going by and making a large wake to ruin your day... if the stove is lit and falls, you could get burned or have the boat catch fire... neither is a good thing... Also non-gimballed stoves still can present a burn risk if the boat gets caught by a wave or wake at the wrong moment...
If you're making a gimbaled mount for one of the single burner stoves, make sure that the gimbal mount has enough weight to handle the heaviest full pot you'd be likely to use on it. Also, make sure the gimbal swivel point is high-enough that it doesn't act to catapult the contents of the pot about the boat.
This is one area where I like using a pressure cooker, even without the "pressure valve" on, since it will stay closed, even if the pot falls.
I have one of those Coleman multifuel stoves. It works very well with gasoline, easy to start, quiet, nice flame. The downside is filling it, if you spill (which is very easy to do), it can be a fire hazard. I tried it once with kerosene and it gave a nice flame. You have to switch the fuel nozzle to switch fuels. I did not want to fool around with preheating so I went back to gas. However I would probably not use gasoline on the boat for fire safety reasons.
Here is my version of a homemade gimballed stove that worked very well:
(http://www.cruisenews.net/tanzer/2002trip2/img20.jpg)
(http://www.cruisenews.net/tanzer/2002trip2/img18.jpg)
(http://www.cruisenews.net/tanzer/2002trip2/img19.jpg)
It is a little bulky, but if you can find a place to hang it without it being in the way, it works really well. It is an el cheapo Wall Mart propane stove in a pail.
I now have a Princess two burner stove converted from alcohol to kerosene. I will probably stick to kerosene, although I am tempted by propane.
Quote from: skylark on February 28, 2007, 09:54:05 PM
Here is my version of a homemade gimballed stove that worked very well:
;D Very cool. Grog to ya.
Uh, I think I would rather hold onto the pot than have it swing that much or change ancorage or cook on the floor or eat non-cook items. I have had bow waves throw the boat so much that it knocked everything off tables. What would happen to that when one of those hits?
Given where the pivot point is... I think that the bucket gimbal stove mount would work rather well. Also, since it is mounted along the long axis of the boat, I think that it wouldn't have much of a problem dealing with the occasional swell or wake.
Quote from: Captain Smollett on February 28, 2007, 10:28:01 PM
Quote from: skylark on February 28, 2007, 09:54:05 PM
Here is my version of a homemade gimballed stove that worked very well:
;D Very cool. Grog to ya.
I agree!!! Great intellectual work ;D BTW, what´s your favourite recipe for teh Grog? :-X
Is that a galvanized bucket? If so you may want to consider switching to a stainless or plain carbon steel one. When heated galvanized steel will release a toxic zinc gas. While you probably won't heat the bucket enough to release enough gas to kill you, it will make the food taste bad.
Quote from: Lynx on February 28, 2007, 11:31:36 PM
Uh, I think I would rather hold onto the pot than have it swing that much or change ancorage or cook on the floor or eat non-cook items. I have had bow waves throw the boat so much that it knocked everything off tables. What would happen to that when one of those hits?
I used it to cook on a Lake Michigan crossing with 6 to 8 foot waves with a lot of close hauled sailing in good sailing winds. It did not spill a bit despite the bashing. It worked really well.
Point well taken on the galvanized pail. It probably should be stainless.
Skylark - Thanks, Strange setup. I would think that it would have been to high and allowing to much montion (no friction stops) that it would not do to well. I will have to look into makeing one on my boat.
Really do need someway to keep the pot on the stove without tending to it all the time.
Quote
Here is my version of a homemade gimballed stove that worked very well:
More grog. Hope you are not driving. ;D
Too cool that stove. 8)
Love the stove Jim. Laura says "those are GREAT stoves, just LOUD" ;D I still have the roarer burner from this one, but we converted to a regular Optimus.
where do you buy those little stoves from??
Thanks,
Chris
The Seaswing part can be bought in lots of places, such as Defender Industries, but they'll use propane.
The one pictured in Jim's boat and the two I posted are kerosene stoves and are difficult to locate. The one in the SeaCook mounting is a true antique. Came from England and is pre WW II.
The heater he shows looks like a Force 10 or some variation. Also available from Defender.
Those Primus/Optimus are Swedish makes and an invention of a countryman of mine in the late 1800's. Click on the link below if you want to know more...
OK, I am not saying this because the guy happended to be born in Sweden, but the interesting thing is that he invented something that was literally spread all over the world, and still hardly noone even in sweden even heard of him. That's a bit weird IMHO.
Anyway, I just love those stoves, and always did. On Röde Orm we have a British stove (Taylor)made of enamel and solid brass ;D fitted with Primus burners and a 6 liter pressure tank to provide it with fuel. Simply a piece of art that fortunately came with the boat.
On my previous boats I have been using the Optimus boat stoves, simple and reliable.
If you guys have problem finding stoves or spare parts, just let me know; I could arrange something from here...'
And, yes : . No way I would ever keep a Propane stove on a boat... ;) ;D ::)
S--t! Forgot the link... here it goes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frans_Wilhelm_Lindqvist
http://www.stpaulmercantile.com/Buttbrass.htm
Great Paul- I have that bookmarked. Still parts are not easy to find, for the non-roarer burners like our Optimus ones.
maxiSwede- I definitely want to get some small parts- I'll PM you, but basically I need a couple of new orfices and some adjusting needles ( whatever they are called), and a few washers here and there.
Thanks for the link I bookmarked it. I have heard of people useing alcohol stoves can this stove also be run on alcohol?? I know i have read how propane can't be bought in some parts of the world and well not sure how safe that would be to keep it onboard to, if this stove can't be run on alcohol can you all give me some other brands to check out?? Thanks
Chris
Nope- can't be run on Alcohol. But then why would you want to do so? For long term use, alcohol is THE most expensive fuel you can use.
They run on kerosene, only we burn mineral spirits in ours. It's cleaner.
Kerosene stoves have a hotter flame, therefor take less time cooking things. Also, kerosene is available world wide- many third world people still light and cook with it.
Well- the stuff available in the US is kinda crummy, which is why we use mineral spirits :D Besides, it's cheaper.
Picture is the stove in use, while we were sailing hard. Laura likes her afternoon coffee ;D
http://britelyt.groupee.net/Oldstove.htm
http://store.britelyt.com/servlet/-strse-Stove-parts/Categories
http://www.base-camp.co.uk/exploded%20views/Optimus/207%20burner.htm
http://www.hytta.de/index_f.htm?kocher/414.htm
When I converted my Princess pressure alcohol stove to kerosene by buying 2 kerosene burners, I found that the alcohol burners seemed to be the same, except for the nipple which apparently had a different oriface diameter. So if you can find a spare alcohol pressure burner, it may be possible to convert it with a $5 part.
CharlieJ just tells you I don't have a clue LOL I was thinking the kerosene would be really smelly if you are cooking with it inside a boat but if mineral spirits burn cleaner then yeah why not. I was thinking of alcohol more for health reasons maybe it would burn cleaner. Thanks for the info and for 50 dollars for the other stove heck you cannot beat that at all that maybe the way to go can you get a stove that burns on kerosene that has like a two burner?? Thanks
Chris
Yes, you can. Again, they are a bit difficult to come by these days, because most have gone to propane ( other than as few luddites like me and Skylark). But you'll have to search them out. I have a two burner sitting in my store room , reserved for a later boat should that happen. Our solution is to have two complete stoves, all set up to interchange in the swinging part. We don't have the room we wish to give up for a two burner aboard Tehani.
Some of the older kerosene stoves were works of art. Brass bound pot holder rails, brass tanks, etc. Beautiful. I'm really sad that the older companies have gone away.
I lived with a 3 burner Shipmate kero stove with oven for quite a few years in times past. Used it in our living "shack" while building the boat and then moved it aboard. Boat was a 35 foot tri so plenty of room. We never found any really objectionable odors, PROVIDED the stove was burning correctly. If something is wrong, sure, it can smell.
BUT- the smell of alcohol is one of the smells that can cause seasickness in some folks. I know two people who cannot stomach the odor of Alcohol. And it's a cooler heat, so takes longer, as I said before.
You pays your money and makes your choices- I pay for Kerosene stoves and lanterns. Our anchor lantern uses the same fuel. Been using kerosene since my first bigger boat, in 1973. I'll keep using it til I can't find parts anymore to keep the stoves going.
Thanks Charlie I'll have to check ebay for the stoves maybe I'll find it there. See I use to work at a shop and this guy had a kerosene heater that dang thing stunk so bad so that is what I was like kerosene that has got to be smelly. Thank you for clearing that up though. I do like the one stove that was posted that was multifuel $105 well kinda high but I guess I would pay that if it did the job. I don't like this fixer for sure I'd have to weld something else up. never tig welded Brass before but it can be done and I got some ideas
Thanks
Chris
I use alcohol in the pan to warm the element and run diesel fuel. It's hotter, handier and might even
be cheaper. TJ
Come - on folks! Alcohol is for drinking, ;) kerosene is for burning. Got it! ;D
Here is a web site that might help with spare parts: I hope this helps. www.spiritburner.com/fusion/index.php
Fair winds,
Pappy Jack
someone posted about a stove called I think a Blake Taylor that is a Kerosene stove boy are those some beautiful stove must be pricey to
Here is a link for the stove -
http://www.survivalunlimited.com/stoves.htm
OK, now for a dumb question from the peanut gallery. I have an old Optimus backpacking stove that I use white gas in. IIRC, it roars with the best of them. The mechanics in it look the same as my Force 10 diesel heater. Would it be possible to use mineral spirits in both, or am I just setting myself up to make a melting burning blob on the water?
It is common with multi-fuel stoves that when you switch fuels you need to change to a different burner orifice... I suspect you can get a kero tip for the Optimus stove as they were sold all over the world. Don't know about the Force 10 heater - perhaps check with the manufacturer on that one.
What do you guys think of James Baldwins "atom"stoves with gimbal ? It seems to me to be a very good choice. My intent is to leave the dock "someday" to head "out there" so space is a major consideration as well as availability of fuel,parts etc.
A single burner swing stove is all you really need and will allow you to cook in rough conditions. On a small boat it makes even more sense because it is small and can be removed.
I like to cook and figured over the long haul cooking like I was camping out would get a bit old. I installed a two burner gimballed stove with both an oven and a broiler and after 5 months aboard I'm glad I did it makes living aboard much more home-like. Although the top burners see most of the action, toast made in the broiler or last nights Jamaican jerked chicken (marinaded and baked in the oven) are wonderful escapes. If you are just weekending then something like this is probably overkill, but if you are in for the long haul, it is a great thing to have.
(http://www.lackeysailing.com/kaholee/photos/april07/stovebar.jpg)
Stove detail during construction.
(http://www.lackeysailing.com/kaholee/photos/november07/stbsaloonaft-110807.jpg)
Finished installation.
Nice.
Nice looking stove, and excellent installation.
Kaholee has some really nice bling, including but not limited to her stove! Tim did a great job for Allen. Check it out:
The (Re)Making of Kaholee (http://www.lackeysailing.com/kaholee/kaholee.htm) ;D
I'm going a lot cheaper (~$200), and am going to get a Camp Chef Stove/Oven, figure out some way to modify it onto a set of gimbals. If it doesn't seem to be lasting very well, then I'll consider a "real" marine stove. But I think this little cheapie will do fine for a number of years. Fingers crossed. ;) It will be for in relative calm and/or at anchor; underway I'll use my small gimballed 1-burner.
Nice stove. I wonder how long it will last. At that price, though, if it lasts two years you might be ahead of the game (marine units are EXPENSIVE).
I wonder, though, why you want to bother gimbaling it if you aren't planning to use it underway. It seems to me that a gimballed stove is actually more dangerous than a fixed stove while at anchor or dock (if you bump into it you could spill boiling hot food).
That is what I am thinking, Adam - try it for a while, see how it holds up. Heck, for the price of a "cheap" 'marine stove/oven', I could buy 4 of these things and rotate them out when 1 gets in bad shape. :D
Gimbals would be for rolly/choppy anchorages, or underway if there is not a lot of motion in the ocean. Even here at my dock, my boat gets rolled a fair bit, depending on weather, tide, and ICW traffic (I am side-to the ICW, sometimes 1-2 ' wakes will make it here, and a SE blows straight in). I'll have to fabricate some potholders if I want to use the stove, but the oven could be used fairly easily underway I think.
http://store.altenergystore.com/Energy-Efficient-Products/Solar-Ovens/Sun-Bd-Corporation-Tulsi-Hybrid-Solar-Cooking-Oven/p3909/?source=froogle (http://store.altenergystore.com/Energy-Efficient-Products/Solar-Ovens/Sun-Bd-Corporation-Tulsi-Hybrid-Solar-Cooking-Oven/p3909/?source=froogle)
Intresting idea. Too bad it can't really be used in the cabin, but I like the "green" idea.
*edit* I wonder if a gimble mount of some sort could put this on the stern rail. Hmmm
Joe-
Nicely done. :)
Thanks guys, I'm really happy with this stove, it is kind of the center of life below, well if you don't count the computer. :)
Regarding gimbal mounts, my stove is gimballed and it comes in handy at anchor or even in a marina when you get wakes from passing boats. In Rockland ME I was on a buoy and it was the Ferry, here in Charleston SC the Charleston Maritime Center is on the side of Oyster Point where we get all the large commercial traffic. Every once in a while you start doing these 10+ degree rolls since the slips are parallel to the shipping channel, so having the stove gimballed is handy. It is also capable of being locked in position, which I learned the hard way is a good thing to do BEFORE you open the oven door. Another advantage is it allows you to compensate for trim irregularities in trim or people just moving about the boat. If, for example, you are making something like a key lime pie it keeps the filling closer to level with regard to the crust, or with something like the jerked chicken I made the other night, it greatly reduces the chances of the sauce sloshing out of the pan, although I do use high sided pans for an extra margin of safety. If you are going to install a full oven system I would recommend doing the gimbal mount.
I really like your set up, and it looks like I might be able to recreate it on my boat if I ever get around to replacing the alcohol hob there now.
I think you have the Neptune 2000, right? did you check out the Pacific 3000 2-burner, and if so can you tell us what the difference is?
I don't know if your boat had LPG to begin with, but if it didn't, what did you do to add the gas? how difficult was the work?
Yes it is a Neptune 2000. I did look at other stoves, but for the price the Neptune was the best deal at the time. I got it on eBay, probably 8 years ago (I' was collecting parts for KAHOLEE's restoration for a long time). The only issue with the stove was the connection provided to the propane system. Apparently the Europeans use a hose and hose clamp to make the connection. We had a time finding a fix, but once we did it was an easy fix.
KAHOLEE did not have LPG to begin with the system was added during the restoration, restomod really. If you go to KAHOLEE.net (http://kaholee.net) and follow the link "KAHOLEE's Restoration" it will take you to the project log. Unfortunately the stove and related systems installation are scattered all over Phase II, but with a little on the custom bracket for the tank in Phase III. Installation was not difficult, but Tim (Tim Lackey, Northern Yacht Restoration) is an amazing craftsman and what he makes look easy is a real project for me, which is why KAHOLEE made the trip from Truth or Consequences NM to Whitefield, ME. ;D
Note; the stove to propane system connection fix is in the project log. You can also visit Tim's forum at http://www.plasticclassicforum.com/ (http://www.plasticclassicforum.com/) and ask Tim all the questions you like. The Plastic Classics Forum is a great DIY resource, by the way, for us good old boat owners.
CapnK
I've been using one of those stoves for two years (fresh water though). Mine isn't gimbled, though, I also use a gimbaled one burner for heating tea, coffee or soup while underway. I like my unit and plan on using it for the 3rd year in a row (I live on my boat during the summer here in Michigan) I think you will be happy with it.
"Doc" Bob
Thanks, Doc! I'll be trying my own out soon, and will add to your report. :D
Joe Pyrat I enjoyed reading the reconstruction/remodal of your boat. I had James Baldwin do the same with my 8.7 Columbia. I would like to know more about you hot water heater and if you have a shower. If so where did you install the shower?
I gather your hot water heater works off of shore power only. Do you have a tank or is it a tankless? Dan
Dan, the hot water heater works off of both shore power and the engine cooling system so hot water is available anytime after running the engine.
The shower is in the cockpit. If you look at the build info you will see a section on using a Radio Shack project box as a mold for the shower head recess. I had initially acquired one of those cockpit shower fittings from a boat store but we decided it wasn't substantial enough for my projected use. The shower fitting is also plumbed so it can be used as a saltwater wash down and the fresh water side of the system is capable of using both my onboard water or city water.
In this picture you can see the shower fitting in the recess on the left.
(http://www.lackeysailing.com/kaholee/photos/november07/enginepanel-110807.jpg)
Jeff,
WRT stoves, Faith carries a Sea swing Sterno stove, the ubiquitous Magma BBQ (the kind that is also a stove), and the Butane stove with a fiddle mentioned earlier in this thread.
I have a few boat-stove questions. I'm still looking for my first live-aboard, long-distance boat and from what I've read (here, other sites, books, etc) I'm pretty convinced I want to go with kerosene for cooking - both for safety reasons and because I'd plan to cruise about the globe and I've heard propane can be a hassle to buy/refill.
1. Can you get gimbal mounted, multi-burner (2 is fine) stoves that use kerosene?
2. Can you get the above with an oven? (Is there even such thing as a kerosene oven?) I know you "can" bake in a pressure cooker, but I also know it's not quite the same thing as "real" baking.
3. I love the Atom Stove (http://www.atomvoyages.com/projects/AtomStove.htm) in concept (looks very simple and quite handy), but I would think only having 1 burner would get old really fast (I do somewhat enjoy cooking). Does anyone agree or disagree?
4. If a boat already comes with a propane or alcohol stove that's in good condition, is it worth it to switch to kerosene or would you just stick with what it has and change in the future?
Thanks!
Greg (aka: Noob with lots of questions)
Greg,
We converted our boat to propane many years ago. We carry 4, 6 Lb tall bottles and that gives us about 4 to 6 months of service. We cruise full time for over 4 years and know it works for us. You can see our install on our web site under our prep pages.
BUT, if I was to do it over again, I might go with the Wallas units! They look like the best (NOT perfect) unit for our size boats. They can be a cook top, a heater and they do have an oven.
They were not available in the US when we outfitted Guenevere.
They do have a few drawbacks, but they have some very nice features. Take a look at the site at:
http://www.wallas.fi/default.asp?id=srj9evr8umg
Hope this helps.
Greg
Quote from: Farfarer on December 31, 2009, 02:02:12 PM
1. Can you get gimbal mounted, multi-burner (2 is fine) stoves that use kerosene?
2. Can you get the above with an oven? (Is there even such thing as a kerosene oven?)
Check out the Taylors kero stoves and ovens, made in the UK.
http://www.blakes-lavac-taylors.co.uk/prod02.htm
I used to had one on my Voyager 26. They're pricey (mine came with the boat) but very nice!
Quote from: Farfarer on December 31, 2009, 02:02:12 PM
4. If a boat already comes with a propane or alcohol stove that's in good condition, is it worth it to switch to kerosene or would you just stick with what it has and change in the future?
Greg,
This is our situation. I'm a bigger fan of kerosene/diesel for cooking and heating fuel aboard than propane (just my personal preference). This thread (http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=961.0) should perhaps be merged with this one.
But our current boat came with propane in the galley (and no heater), and we have chosen to stick with this for a time; the boat simply needs attention in other areas first. I will change "some day," but I'm in no big hurry. Waiting should give me time to save for the Taylors or similar setup I want.
Incidentally, just to add to the consumption stats, we have a single 10 lb propane tank, and we typically get 3 months per tank. That's a family of four cooking at least one hot meal per day, plus heating water for dishes (and/or occasional hot drinks) at least once per day. In our current location, 10 lb of propane costs $10, so we are looking at about $3.50 ish per month.
I think the ideal combination is to have a 2 burner propane stove with a kerosene Sea Swing system.
If you have alcohol, you should plan on changing to something else. If it is pressure alcohol, you can change out the burner jets to kerosene for a fairly easy conversion. If it is nonpressure alcohol, you will need a new stove.
Quote from: Bill NH on December 31, 2009, 05:22:04 PM
Check out the Taylors kero stoves and ovens, made in the UK.
http://www.blakes-lavac-taylors.co.uk/prod02.htm
I used to had one on my Voyager 26. They're pricey (mine came with the boat) but very nice!
Yeah, that's what I'm looking for. They look like works of art too! :)
Looks like about $2000 for the basic 2 burner stove-top w/ no oven. Yeah... a wee bit pricey. But I would bet they're worth it (if you have the spare $2k). And only about $3500 for the one with the oven... :'(
We use a single burner SeaCook, modified to kerosene aboard Tehani. The SeaCoook is quite different from the SeaSwing, and we much prefer it. We carry an entire second stove as a backup.
Stoves and parts are available from England, at this site-
http://www.base-camp.co.uk/
As far as using a single burner, Laura did our Thanksgiving dinner on ours- Ham, baked sweet potatos, steamed broccoli with cheese, black-eyed peas and heated rolls. All on the one burner. We bought the pumpkin pie ready made.
If it works, here's a pic from the Tehani showing the stove
Quote from: CharlieJ on January 01, 2010, 11:29:41 AM
As far as using a single burner, Laura did our Thanksgiving dinner on ours- Ham, baked sweet potatos, steamed broccoli with cheese, black-eyed peas and heated rolls. All on the one burner. We bought the pumpkin pie ready made.
What?!?! Are you kidding me? I think she needs to write a book! :)
Seriously, I'd LOVE to know how to manage something like that. I can't imagine how you could keep cooked things hot while cooking the other things. Or where you'd put them - your "galley" is pretty dang small.
At the very least... how did she bake the sweet potatoes? I LOVE sweet potatoes!!
ROFL- the sweet potatos were baked in the pressure cooker. Once baked, the rolls were placed on top to get and stay hot. Then the broccoli was cooked, then the peas.
Pretty simple, at least from where I was sitting- watching ;D
We had a picture, but it was loaded to the netbook and I'm on the laptop.
Laura bakes bread, biscuits, cakes, the potatos ( both kinds) and many other things in that pressure cooker. Can also can meats in it. Every boat should have one.
Hi Paul, I have the original Kenyon pressurized alcohol stove and would like to do as you suggested. maybe a dumb question but where would I start looking for parts?
Go here:
http://www.base-camp.co.uk/stove_in.htm#Pressure%20stoves
and look through the exploded diagrams to find a burner similar to your burner.
It might be this one:
http://www.base-camp.co.uk/exploded%20views/Optimus/207%20burner.htm
The part you want is the nipple. You may have to make a wrench to get it out, access is not very good. It doesn't take a lot of power to unscrew it, its just hard to get to.
Thanks Paul, It sure looks like it. I dug through my papers for the kenyon book that the P O's have kept for the last 27 years and it has an exploded view. Looks identical. I'll get on it.
Thanks again.
John
With the right nipple, you should be able to use kerosene (mineral spirits) with no other changes.
They are on sale at Cabalas now for $199. You only need to gimbal a stove if U'r crazy enough to put it on one side of the boat or the other.
Sailors who know better setup their stoves athwartships then no gimbals are necessary and if the food spills it spills across, not towards the cook.
When I am able to return to cruising on a weekly basis, on my small boat, First Born. I will order one. already have space allocated. I love to bake fresh bread!
genewj
I used a Force 10 Seaswing with the 1lb. Coleman style fuel bottles. A 1.5 liter Hawkins pressure cooker prepared the brown rice I love so much. Brass caps from Cabelas, assured no leakage from the bottles. Anhydrous Lanolin kept the threads as new. The bottles were refilled from a twenty lb. tank via an adaptor from Harbor freight. The 20lb tank lasts about about 1 year. The Bottles are stored in 4" pvc pipe attatched to the stern pulpit. These bottles require constant attention to prevent rust. Unfortunately these stoves are no longer available. When the gas control valve on mine failed The Kuuma people would not even answer my equiries. A little machine work soon adopted a new Sears stove mechanism to my sea swing stove. This system worked very well. Phil
Nice. Phil, I have one of those stoves and I love it. By sheer luck, I found another mounting bracket, so I can move it to either side of the boat. This was very important to me. Think I'll get the adapter from HF and start filling my own propane bottles. I'll look up the brass caps and get a few for my needs and make a PVC pipe container to store them. Thanks for your post. Shame they don't make those stoves anymore.
And, I'm going to start using my Presto 1.5 liter pressure cooker on the boat. I upgraded to an all-electric one at home and use it lots. Getting that pressure cooker flavor down on the boat will be awesome.
Quote from: CapnK on October 27, 2006, 08:56:39 AM
It's been a while since I looked at alternatives. Right now I have the cheap 2 burner propane stove from WalMart, but I mostly just use 1 of the burners, so it takes up more space than needed, thus I keep looking... :)
Here are some interesting finds from this morning, some are recaps, some are, I think, 'new' to the discussion...
I think I am going to get this one (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=35558), and give away my cheapo 2 burner, or if possible, chop it up for spare burners:
(http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/35500-35599/35558.gif)
I've long looked at this one (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43343), because I like the small oven/broiler, but it's larger than it needs to be for me, and space is at a premium. It's on sale, $20 off of what its cost has been for the last several years:
(http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/43300-43399/43343.gif)
Here's a new-to-me product (a propane oven (http://www.gearforcamping.com/product-p/9927-a50.htm)) that seems like a good idea, but is a bit pricey. More specs here (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0036299517178a&type=product&cmCat=search&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&QueryText=stove&N=4887&Ntk=Products&Ntx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=stove&noImage=0), it is pretty large. Still, it runs off of my fuel, so...
(http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/Item/51/71/78/i517178sq01.jpg)
Anyone used or seen this one (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0030006517180a&type=product&cmCat=search&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&QueryText=stove&N=4887&Ntk=Products&Ntx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=stove&noImage=0) yet?
(http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/Item/51/71/80/i517180sn01.jpg)
A stovetop hot-water heater (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0038862517356a&type=product&cmCat=search&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&No=20&noImage=0&Ntt=stove&Ntk=Products&QueryText=stove&Ntx=matchall&N=4887&Nty=1) that some may find of interest...
(http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/Item/51/73/56/i517356sn01.jpg)
Maybe this (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0006318516393a&type=product&cmCat=search&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&No=20&noImage=0&Ntt=stove&Ntk=Products&QueryText=stove&Ntx=matchall&N=4887&Nty=1) could be modified into a small, stovetop oven?
(http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/Item/51/63/93/i516393sq01.jpg)
And this thing (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0037993517230a&type=product&cmCat=search&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&QueryText=stove&N=4887&Ntk=Products&Ntx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=stove&noImage=0) looks like a way to make hot beverage/cooking water with a minimum of fuel. At its price, it would take a while to recover the costs, but at sea, minimal fuel usage and max efficiency would be nice:
(http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/Item/51/72/30/i517230sn01.jpg)
Last, heres a stove (http://www.gearforcamping.com/product-p/328184.htm) which can use propane, gas, or kero - giving maximum flexibility in fuels. Sorry, no pic, the site owners claim copyright on the pic (for no good reason)... ::) ??? :P
I have the one pictured as the "outback" two burner w/oven, it is actually made by and sold as the "Camp Chef". There was a thread concerning this stove, I and several people on boats where I live have one, they are terrific, two big burners and a small oven that gets up to 450F (no thermastat, just thermometer so you have to watch it untill it gets where you want then turn it all the way down)
(http://www.outdoorcookingetc.info/media/images/i/41mAWkgPQcL._SL160_.jpg)
Need some help (again ;))...
Have a Taylor Kerosene stove... needs preheating and pumping. I Think I do right but... When turned on Hugh scaring flames will come, scares me a bit when out to sea. Will it need more pre heating purhapse? What do I do wrong?
Sounds like not enough pre heat. That stove should give you a nice blue flame when properly pre heated.
Also make sure the orifice is clean. Should have a self pricking needle that cleans when you turn all the way on. Do that once in a while before lighting.
I've used kero stoves since the 70's with little to no problems.
Hi, And thanks charlie. Will try to clean it out. For how long and with what do you pre heat it with?
Rubbing alcohol works, as long as it's 70 % or more. I prefer the 90% (red label here) Anything under 70% doesn't want to burn.
Or denatured, but it smells worse and is more costly.
As to how long- each stove is a bit different. I fill the pre heat cup almost to the rim and then light. May be more than needed, but it's surer that way. Start like that and cut back if you want. I just like to be sure.
Oh- and here's a great site for all parts
http://www.base-camp.co.uk/
Yes Charlie, Now I think I got the grip of it. I have done wrong from the begining. Thanks to you!
1) Make sure the air screw is loose to release any existing pressure.
2) Unscrew filler cap and ensure there is sufficient paraffin,(kerosene), in the tank, approx. 3/4 full, replace cap.
3) Fill the preheater cup with methylated spirit, (alcohol) and light. Ensure stove is sheltered from the wind or fit the windshield.
4) LEAVE THE STOVE ALONE!!, don't fiddle!, when the spirit is almost burned out close the air screw and give a few strokes on the pump, the stove should light at the top of the burner. Have a match or lighter ready in case the stove does not light immediately.
5) Should the flame burn unevenly around the burner the jet may be blocked.Wire cleaning needles or 'prickers' are used to reach into the flame and clean the jet. Use the correct diameter 'pricker' for the stove, 0.2mm - 0.3mm, bent pieces of wire etc. will damage the fine jet.
6) If the stove flares release the pressure by opening the air screw and allow to burn down. Before re-lighting the stove always loosen the air screw to release any pressure present.
7) To adjust the hight of the flame at the burner loosen the air screw gradually, this releases some pressure and the flame will go down. To increase the flame again increase pressure by gentle pumping, do not over-pump or the tank can be damaged.
With practice it will take less time to light your stove than read these instructions!.
Aha- you have a "roarer" burner :D
I have (had) one of those also. I changed it out for an adjustable one. Same drill though,except you don't need to bleed off the pressure.
Stove and spares went with Tehani
Well on Clara we had alochol, on our fish boats, diesel, on TPIII propane stove and oven. On First Born,since cooking will be in the cockpit, I've chosen a 2 burner white gas and unleaded gs stove with a Coleman oven on top. That way its a one fuel boat.
Only crazy people try to cook underway in a 19' boat.
olesalts view geneWj
Carita came with an original pressurized 2-burner alcohol stove which I don't think has ever been used.
Although I knew I would never on principle alone allow myself to pay the $20.00/litre West Marine wants for denatured alcohol, the stainles stove was too god of quality and such a nice job was done building it into the galley counter that it seemed a shame not to utilize it.
In keeping with my simple and pragmatic (read: tightwad) nature, I removed the burners and replaced them with Swedish all-brass Trangia nonpressurized spirit stoves I purchased from a backpacking store for $18.00 each. Although incredibly basic, I now have a solid and reliable no-moving-parts cook system which burns cheap ($8.00/gallon) methyl hydrate and will last forever without failing.
For the foreseable future we arent going to be making any passges long enough to worry about cooking underway - my Admiral's famous antipasto platters serve that calling just fine!
Welcome aboard to both of you.
Yep- alcohol is THE most expensive fuel going for long term use. but for weekending, not a big deal.
I can't figure how you won't be at least using the stove for coffee out anchored somewhere. Sipping that first cup while sitting out in the cockpit as the sun comes up, is really superb ;)
Hi Chalie and thanks for the welcome.
I'm in complete agreement with the morning coffee ritual - The first thing we moved on to the boat was our kettle and French Press from our canoe camping gear.
Cooking at anchor, mooring or dock is no problem at all, however what I was getting at is the open design of the Trangia burners would make things a little...ummmm....dramatic if fired up while underway and heeled.
Amazing photos of Tehani BTW - I'm sure you've heard it all before but Wow!
Thank you Darren. She's quite a boat. Not bad for 52 yrs old eh?
Of course, sometimes I DO cook underway. When you are offshore for several days, you must ;)
Pic adjusted so stove and coffee pot were vertical-
Great setup!
I'm also liking the look of the KISS hanging single burner earlier in this thread utilizing the milk pail. I've made a couple of different hobo stove designs for camping in the past. I'm sure I can come up with an appropriately tightwad solution when the time comes that I need something gimballed.
Darren,
Emerald Tide gets by with regular old propane, nice and convenient... But I do like Faith's system...
Butane for the main stove, sterno (in a sea swing) for the second burner, and propane in the 1# bottles for the grill / oven...
Like the sound of your set up, would you mind posting a picture? Would like to know where you got he parts for the conversion too....
Again, welcome aboard!
I will be happy to post a picture as soon as this Canadian winter finally lets up and I can dig my way back inside...
There are really no parts to speak of. Trangias are the simplest burner you can imagine - just a heavy duty double walled brass canister - sort of a permanent sterno or fondue burner on steroids. Can burn them wide open for a roaring boil or add a ring with an adjustable butterfly flap for simmering. Fir installation all I did was remove the old burner assembiles, tubes etc. and wedge the Trangias in the holes that were left behind.
Like I said - extremely basic but solid and won't fail. The Trangias can be found in hiking/backpacking type stores.
A few random thoughts on stoves. My wife and I have always felt that without an oven you are camping, and we want to be able to cook as good as home so we like to have the oven. Even when in the hot Caribbean we were frequently baking bread, fish we had caught, chicken, muffins, pies, cakes, you name it. Second, no matter what anybody tells you, kerosene creates some odor, even when working perfectly. Many, many times I have been invited to someone's boat and I know they cook with kero before I even get onboard--I can smell it from the dinghy. It permeates your clothing, everything in the cabin, and even your food. Some people seem to get used to it, but I could not, and I consider myself an expert on running a kero stove, which I did for many years, both camping and on boats. Third, I just don't see kero many places I have been, including the U.S., Canada, the Caribbean, and other places, where propane is available virtually everywhere. Forget alcohol--unavailable outside most developed countries in my experience. I suppose with careful planning and some research you might be able to carry a very large supply of alcohol so you only need to purchase it maybe every six months or so, but I think it would be a pain in the long run. The small camping cylinders of propane or butane corrode through very easily, and should never be stored below or anywhere the gas wouldn't drain overboard if they leak. With a family of four onboard full-time we find that two 20-lb cyclinders of propane usually last us at least 3 months, which is my desired "range" on cooking fuel--I don't want to have to fill up more often than that, because some places it is very hard to find any fuel. We do a lot of baking onboard and eat something hot for almost every meal.
Just a point- I don't ever use kerosene. Nowadays it just isn't as refined as it once was. Instead I use 100% Mineral Spirits, and have for nearly 40 years, both in stoves and in kero lamps. Burns FAR cleaner than todays kero and costs about the same.
And I use a pressure cooker as an oven, baking bread, biscuits, potatoes, cakes, etc. Just have to get used to round loves :D
If I HAD to change, I'd go propane for sure though.
Mineral spirits might be the way to go, but how readily available is it outside the USA and other developed countries? I do have some kero lamps onboard and we usually spring for ridiculously expensive lamp fuel as it does call itself "odorless" but I can still smell it somewhat--not too bad though. Kero lamps make nice offshore night lights and keep the night chill out of the cabin. In places like Maine we find they provide enough heat many nights to keep things quite comfy below. I'll have to try mineral spirits in them. We used to lug around a pressure cooker, and have tried baking in them, but never really got the hang of them. Much easier and nicer, IMHO, to have a real oven that can cook anything you might cook at home in an oven. A grill on the stern is also a necessity for us--keeps a lot of cooking heat out of the boat in hot climates, and is the nicest way to grill meats of all sorts.
Never had any trouble finding Mineral Spirits in the Bahamas or Mexico. It's used as a paint thinner, and every body everywhere paints. Regular stuff labeled "paint thinner' works well also- both burn far cleaner than kerosene available now.
Careful on the "odorless" mineral spirits- some of that is labeled non flamable- sure would mess up a lamp wick >:(
Denatured alcohol in the Bahamas, was $30 a gallon last I saw. Sure glad I didn't need THAT!!
Use the pressure cooker to can things also :)
Charlie, what's your mineral spirits consumption and how much do you carry onboard? I like the idea of liquid fuels if there was something that is readily available, relatively inexpensive, and burns hot, clean, and odorless. The odorless stuff I was referring to earlier is special "lamp oil" that works beautifully in kerosene lamps, but is too expensive to use much of.
Are mineral spirits the same cheap product I buy in Canada as "Methyl Hydrate"?
Quote from: DarrenC on March 10, 2014, 09:10:12 AM
Are mineral spirits the same cheap product I buy in Canada as "Methyl Hydrate"?
Nope- Methyl Hydrate is a Methylated alcohol . Mineral Spirits are more akin to Kerosene- a petroleum base.
Ok thanks - I'll look at picking some up and giving it a go in the Trangia and my Dietz lantern
I normally just carry a 2 gallon plastic gas can of it, stowed up in the anchor locker. If I was going off, say to the Bahamas for a while, I also have 4 of the aluminum fuel containers that campers use- the spun aluminum kind. Quart size? Don't really know how big. Those stow in a lidded kitty litter bucket in a cockpit locker, along with the siphon I use to fill the stove. Stove gets moved to cockpit to refill, as of course do the lamps
Heading out, they are all full. That's enough for a good many weeks of full time use, unless of course you are canning. Meats take 75 minutes under pressure, the cooker holds 5 - 1/2 pint jars, so 15 jars can take a while. THAT kind of stuff is done stateside,so fuel refills are readily available..
I use either Denatured Alcohol OR red label rubbing alcohol as a primer. Red label is 91%. 70% will work too, but 50% won't burn well, if at all. The prime is done form a tiny squirt bottle, kept in a rack in the galley. Holds about 1/4 cup total and lasts for DAYS. Actual priming only requires about a tablespoon full
Guess I should snap some pics next I'm at the boat ;) Maybe I'll go do that today. Good excuse to go to the marina :D
Quote from: DarrenC on March 10, 2014, 10:49:59 AM
Ok thanks - I'll look at picking some up and giving it a go in the Trangia and my Dietz lantern
Probably won't work well in your stove- requires a prime of alcohol to get it going in the pressure stove. Will work very well in the lantern if that's a wick style Dietz. I used to use one of those as an anchor light, before I got the LED light.
Pic at anchor, Barataria, Louisiana, JUST before New Orleans.
I just came back from WalMart and odorless mineral spirits there is $12.97 per gallon. That seems pretty expensive to me. 91% Isopropyl alcohol is actually cheaper at WalMart at $2.58 per quart, though I suspect you don't get as much heat output per quart so not sure how it compares. Somewhere I seem to recall that kerosene is now low sulfur in the USA, so maybe it doesn't stink as badly as it used to? Another question I have wondered about is what does burning kero, mineral spirits, or whatever do to the air quality in the cabin and your health? Propane is very clean burning.
By the way, don't burn alcohol in a kerosene stove! From what I read, isopropyl alcohol is not ideal even as a preheating fuel due to burning sooty.
I'm not 100% sure if it is legit to post links to other sites here, so apologies in advance if this is against the rules. I noticed this old article on Good Old Boat comparing stove fuels, and most of it is still relevant except for prices. Good summary of the pros and cons of most fuels. http://www.goodoldboat.com/reader_services/articles/cookingfuels.php
I admit to romantic notions for the 'old ways' clouding my practical judgement, but does it not seem the ultimate KISS/self sufficient galley solution would be the ancient concept of the wood/solid fuel stove?
Not an option for a GRP boat or any practical modern cruiser really, but I've often fantasized about being at anchor in pouring rain, snug in the cabin of an old cutter or smack with a fire burning and a crock of beans simmering...Add a kero lamp and a good book and you've got my version of heaven.
Wood stoves are great onboard. I used to have a Tiny Tot made by the Lunenberg Foundry folks up in Canada. It was in a 28-foot Samurai Sloop I owned, and it was just as cozy as you described. Bought the boat in Massachusetts in mid-November and sailed back from Buzzards Bay during some cold weather. I'll never forget being anchored up in Hadley Harbor with the wind whistling through the rigging and taking our wood smoke curling away. We hunted up plenty of wood by finding offcuts outside of boatbuilding and repair shops near the waterfront, so we were frequently burning bits of mahogany in the stove, if you can believe it. Smelled great too. Not great for cooking on though, unless you haunt cold water areas where heating up the entire boat is an advantage. We used to put a kettle on it to make hot tea, but that was about all. In the tropics or in the summer you want a stern grill, and I used a charcoal one for years and burned driftwood in it when I ran out of coal. But, the average charcoal grill is not easy to refuel once lighted without taking the grill off so it is only good for cooking things quickly unless using charcoal, which lasts longer.
Quote from: Kettlewell on March 11, 2014, 10:15:27 AM
I'm not 100% sure if it is legit to post links to other sites here, so apologies in advance if this is against the rules. I noticed this old article on Good Old Boat comparing stove fuels, and most of it is still relevant except for prices. Good summary of the pros and cons of most fuels. http://www.goodoldboat.com/reader_services/articles/cookingfuels.php
No problem posting info like that- but I get "problem loading page" Maybe just me, but check your link
The link works for me, but you can Google "A Clean Look at the "Dirty" Half Dozen."
Quote from: CharlieJ on March 11, 2014, 11:24:55 AM
Quote from: Kettlewell on March 11, 2014, 10:15:27 AM
I'm not 100% sure if it is legit to post links to other sites here, so apologies in advance if this is against the rules. I noticed this old article on Good Old Boat comparing stove fuels, and most of it is still relevant except for prices. Good summary of the pros and cons of most fuels. http://www.goodoldboat.com/reader_services/articles/cookingfuels.php
No problem posting info like that- but I get "problem loading page" Maybe just me, but check your link
And now it works????? Que paso???
Ok, as promised- some pics from the boat on fuel and stowage. Gonna take two posts, so bear with me.
First, the stove itself- The upper part originally was a propane SeaCook which I cut down for the kerosene stove. That is a true antique, from England, pre WW II. All brass. Has Arabic engraving on it. Originally had a "Roarer' burner, but I converted it to a regular Primus. The SeaCook is no longer made, and in my opinion is a FAR better stove than the current Sea Swing stoves. For one thing the pot holder is far superior.
Second pic is the little squirt bottle I use to fill the primer cup with alcohol. It lives behind a door adjacent to the stove
Next is the fuel storage.
First pic is the 2 gallon gas can I keep stowed up in the anchor rode locker. It's wedged in, never moves. The clear jug above that is some denatured alcohol. Not real happy with that, but so far ok
Second pic is of the spun aluminum fuel containers, and my siphon hose. I have four of the containers. The small one holds exactly enough to refill an empty stove, so I put that much into the other three. These are kept in a lidded kitty litter bucket down in a cockpit locker.
Those buckets are GREAT storage containers by the way- not water proof, but resist splashes, and the ones I have are clear, so you can see what's in them. I got them from friends who keep cats, and have about ten of them
different angle on the stove. Oh, and it generally runs about a week, used at least twice a day, on a filling. Often more
Not sure if these have been mentioned, but has anyone tried out one of those rope-wick type kerosene stoves that seem to be all the rage in the survivalist community? Here's one: http://www.kerosenestoves.net/10wickkerosenestove.html
After doing some further reading around there are quite a few sites that say never use mineral spirits or paint thinner in lamps or stoves. I can't dispute Charlie's real-world experience with the stuff, but I would suggest at least reading the counterarguments out there on the web.
Quote from: Kettlewell on March 12, 2014, 11:46:54 AM
After doing some further reading around there are quite a few sites that say never use mineral spirits or paint thinner in lamps or stoves. I can't dispute Charlie's real-world experience with the stuff, but I would suggest at least reading the counterarguments out there on the web.
Just did a good bit of googling on the subject of mineral spirits in stoves. Haven't found a single place that says do not. Most comment that it is just a more refined kerosene.
Did see ONE comment that using mineral spirits in wick lamps would cause a "runaway" flame, but that was soundly refuted. BUT I saw references to not using it in larger circular wicked lanterns, such as larger Alladin's. Those all point back to one dealers page and I have had`zero experience with circular wick lanterns since I used one in a cabin (not boat cabin) back in the 70's.
I can assure you, I've used Mineral Spirits in lamps and stove since the 70's, on bunches of boats, with zero problems. If you have a link to something that says otherwise, I'd REALLY be interested in reading it.
The problem with wick kerosene stoves is that if they fall over on their sides, they will leak. If they fall over while burning, well, I will let you guess the result.
Fully gimbaled- CAN't just "fall over"
Ah- sorry Skylark- JUST noticed the "wick stove" part. My bad ::)
Obviously, you would have to mount a wick stove so it wouldn't fall over, just like the alcohol stoves that use wicks. I'm thinking of stoves like these: http://www.kerosenestoves.net/10wickkerosenestove.html
As to fuel, I'm not really starting an argument, just looking for information. Here's one link on stove fuel issues, though it doesn't give you any information, just a list! http://www.kerosenestoves.net/NeverUseTheseFuels.html
Obviously mineral spirits has worked for you and that is good data. The biggest drawback I see is cost and availability. At nearly $14 a gallon at my local WalMart that would get expensive for full-time living aboard, and I know of many islands and such I have visited that have no hardware store, no gas station, or any other place you could possibly purchase mineral spirits but there is always a way to get propane because everyone uses it. Have you experimented with the clear K1 that is available many places in the USA now (at least here in the north country where everyone has a kerosene heater)? I hear it burns pretty clean and odor free.
Interesting stove. I've never seen nor heard of one before. The only wick type stoves or lanterns I've ever dealt with are the Aladdins. I have an Aladdin wick heater called a "Blue Flame" Used to use it to heat the small cabin I lived in while building my trimaran, and had an Aladdin circular wick lantern I lit the same cabin with (1970's). Haven't run that heater in years. Also have a circular wick kero heater called a "Kerosun" I used on board the tri during day times, never at night. It's been used out in the woodshop on occasion, but not lately. Lately if it's cold, I just don't go out there- benefit of being retired ;D
On the 1-K. I just recently bought a gallon at ACE and put it in the oil lamps here in the house. Did that in prep for an ice storm that missed us, so we didn't lose electrity. Haven't USED any of it as yet, but looks good. Unfortunately, price is within pennies of a gallon of mineral spirits. Roughly $14 a gallon. I bought it because the store was out of Mineral Spirits.
Availability has never been a problem. When I load up with a full load, I can go about 3 months, maybe a tad more on the 2 1/2 gallons I carry. So 30-40 bucks roughly ain't bad for 3 months supply, no matter.
I'd probably switch to propane myself, if I had a reasonable spot to put the stove, tanks, valving, etc aboard Tehani. But I've used kero stoves since the 70's , am comfortable with them, know how to keep them clean and running and have several spare burners aboard (including a whole spare tank and bottom end) so at my age, I'll stick with it.
Oh- and I understand you aren't arguing- this is a discussion, pro and con. Hopefully it will give others info they can use
But ya know, even state side, propane isn't always THAT easy to obtain. In Boot Key Harbor, a friend had to rent a car, and drive to another key, to have his tank filled. THAT was rather costly!! I walked to the K-Mart and bought Mineral Spirits ;)
Edited to add- Here at the house, I'm all Propane- kitchen stove, water heater and heat.
Kinda big, but I always find these Amish kerosene stoves interesting. I guess this is how many (most?) people cooked all over the USA until rural electrification started in the 1930s. https://www.lehmans.com/p-842-perfection-kerosene-cookstoves.aspx
I believe those are wick-type kerosene stoves, and apparently the Amish continue to use them regularly. I wonder what they burn in them?
And here's another neat looking wick-type stove: http://milesstair.com/BF_2418.html
I don't know if it;s a problem unique to Canada, but propane prices almost tripled in 2013. The explanation given by our Minister of Energy had someting to do with it being a bumper year for the corn crop and apparently propane is critical to the drying process or some nonsense. In typical political BS fashion we have also been assured that they are 'looking into it'.
Quote from: DarrenC on March 13, 2014, 10:30:49 AM
I don't know if it;s a problem unique to Canada, but propane prices almost tripled in 2013. The explanation given by our Minister of Energy had someting to do with it being a bumper year for the corn crop and apparently propane is critical to the drying process or some nonsense. In typical political BS fashion we have also been assured that they are 'looking into it'.
Heard it was also quite high in the NE of the US too. I filled my home tank in Jan for 3.05 gallon, 2.50 with my senior citizens discount. One of the benefits of being old :P
Hey Thanks for the second link :D They have replacement wicks for my Blue Flame!!! Got it bookmarked and I'll get one of those!!
While Googling around I came across an interesting article on Test Results Cook Stove Performance. It is about cooking methods for the third world, but there is interesting data in there comparing various fuels and stoves, and what I was looking for air quality. Apparently indoor pollution from cooking stoves is a major health problem in the third world. It seems to me that on a boat there is a potential to have really bad air quality if you have the cabin closed up tight and your cooking stove is putting out lots of carbon monoxide and pollutants--we don't all cook in the tropics with the hatches wide open. In any case, I have downloaded the pdf of this document (long) from here: http://www.pciaonline.org/resources/test-results-cook-stove-performance
Of course there are definitely safety concerns here and this raised an eyebrow from one boarding Coastie but I have experimented with long term stowage of the butane canisters for those "hotel stoves" buying 90 cartridges April 2013 for my use cruising locally and living aboard. I will have to do an inventory for a count one year later of somewhat regular use but my point here was regarding corrosion. These came in shrink-wrapped sets of 5 cans. These have been stowed part of the time in an upper cabinet in the forward head and the last few months in a more exposed cockpit lazzerette and while there has been some superficial rust I have not seen any sort of corrosion that would raise the least concern. If these were also wrapped in plastic bag then they would most likely still be pristine.
I like the convince and efficiency of these stove and as they are so cheap I can carry a couple of extras for backupnand I have found that I can screw these stoves down if I need to as well as locking in the burner tray and ad metal springs as pot holders though as yet I have not bothered to do that.
More experienced cruisers and travelers than myself seem to indicate that these cartridges were available anywhere there was a hotel. I don' t always want to be tethered to places that have hotels but as I saw I can carry plenty of these things and like it are not I hear that it's kinda hard to avoid hotels in most sailing areas.
I would very much love to here from cruisers here babout their own observations about this availability.
I love the lil butane stoves. Simple n safe. Butane is available at Maxwells grocery store in Marsh Harbor Abacos for "4 for $9.99" as well as Abaco Hardware
I ran across a website a few days back, will have to see if I can find it again, which was cautioning against the use of mineral spirits instead of kero in lights and such; the reason they had was due to the relative 'flash point' of the fuels - the temperature point where the liquid vaporizes and becomes highly flammable/unstable.
Off the top of my head and likely not accurate so posted here only for illustrative purposes ((IOW - don't do this at home, kids)), it seems the flash point of kero (reg'lar lamp fuel) was like 20 or 30 degrees higher than the temp needed to hit flash point of refined mineral spirits. This was important because apparently heat travels back down the wick and into the fuel, and of course if enough of that happened and your fuel hit flash point, it could go boomy - that "runaway fire" thing mentioned earlier.
Sounds pretty reasonable. They had numbers and science to back it up. Just thought I'd add it here, because I had never seen that reasoning before, and if true it makes sense. Stay away from short wicks. :)
Here 'tis, them warnings with pertinent info and such about why CJ shouldn't do what he's already been doing for 30 years or so... ;D
http://www.lanternnet.com/faqs.htm
(Just pulling yer wick there, CJ! ;) )
Quote from: CapnK on April 21, 2014, 10:08:04 PM
Here 'tis, them warnings with pertinent info and such about why CJ shouldn't do what he's already been doing for 30 years or so... ;D
http://www.lanternnet.com/faqs.htm
(Just pulling yer wick there, CJ! ;) )
Have to call bull hockey. Note that they refer mostly to TUBULAR wick lanterns, which is a VERY different thing
Flat/round vs tubular wicks - I could see where that might make a big difference in transmitting heat and/or vaporized fuel up towards the ignition point.
I used one of the butane stoves on Necessity and liked it a lot. Enough so that when I sold the stove with Necessity, I went and bought another one, for camping use. Also will carry it aboard Tehani, for cooking in the cockpit.
Grime and his wife Lisa use one on board Miss Sadie too.
Not giving up my Kerosene stove though ;)
Oh, and I've been using Mineral Spirits as a fuel since 1973. That was in an old Vulcano stove, which I still have.
And if my math is right, that's 41 years, not 30 ;D
I'm not very comfortable using any heavier than air gas for cooking or heating on a boat. Propane and butane can leak and settle in the bilge.
For our last 3500 mile cruise; I built a gimbled stove that incorporated a small pressure cooker, and used large sterno cans for fuel. I could light 3 cans at once for large meals. It heats a little slower than butane or propane, but works fine otherwise.
I've really come to like the Atom stove I bought from James Baldwin. Initially, I didn't, but it has grown on me. Pressurized kero - very simple. Using the Tilley wick to preheat instead of the cup is much easier - and spill proof.
Before I bought that stove, I was thinking of one of the wick type stoves. Both James at www.atomvoyages.com and Paul at St. Paul Mercantile cautioned me against it. Something about larger volumes of kero sloshing about with more than one wick leading to more heat than I required for cooking.... ;D
The Atom stove is very like my SeaCook (NOT a Sea Swing, which I don't care for)
It originally was propane, but I modified it to take my antique British kero burner. Only stove I've used on Tehani so far. I carry an entire spare stove just in case, but so far never needed it. Also carry several extra burners
There's a guy at my marina, a welder by trade, I asked him tonight and we're gonna see about making up a simple gimballed stove, maybe along the lines of the Atom stove, or maybe more SeaCook - will update once we get started...