Sheet to Tiller or Windvane

[Cruiser2B]

I know there have been many dicussions on the subject of each. Has anyone here used both(not at the same time) on their boat. I am seriously considering spending the money on a windvane as it weems like the most reliable and consistant, but again I have never used either. my opinion is based solely on what i have read. I am asking this because if I can keep $3500 in the bank I would like to do so.

www.svsalacia.blogspot.com

[Captain Smollett]

I have not used both, but will offer an opinion anyway.

It does not have to be either - or.

There is nothing to stop you from making and using Sheet To Tiller gear while you shop / fit your windvane.  That way, you will have it as a back-up and will have practice using it.  For such little money, it just seems like the kind of back-up, belt-n-suspenders tool that fits well on a KISS boat.

Recall Pat Henry's comments from her book By The Grace of the Sea.  Her wind vane boat the bucket and she then relied (or tried to) on electronic autopilot, one after another after one failure after another.

She endured weeks with no real off-watch while hand steering - through the Torres Strait and it's associated major shipping lanes.

Later when she fitted sheet to tiller gear, her comment was (I'm paraphrasing): it was so simple and worked so well I'm kicking myself for not trying it sooner.

I love sheet-to-tiller steering, but will likely install a vane at some point...some day.

[Cruiser2B]

I bought myself a Norvane windvane, got a good deal on it, good thing to because it was all I had....... I should be picking it up this weekend. It is not 100% new, only a few months old, installed but never sailed...But Kirk Little says this is a good vane for the money..

[w00dy]

I have had a little experience now with both and can offer my 2 c; take what you can use. I currently own, have just recently rebuilt, and am learning to coax a well used Aries servo pendulum gear. My last boat was a small cutter that was set up for sheet-to-tiller rigs. I have also read and studied "Self Steering for Sailing Craft" by John Letcher, which is the most comprehensive book on the subject that I know of. http://www.amazon.com/Self-Steering-Sailing-Craft-John-Letcher/dp/0877420424 Hard to get ahold of, but perhaps you could Interlibrary Loan a copy (I let mine go with my last boat).

I second Cpt. Smollett's suggestion that you try both.  No matter what self-steering system you eventually choose, it ultimately comes down to getting various forces to balance out in the way that you want.

Windvanes are (semi) sophisticated systems that, once set up properly, allow you to conveniently manage those forces. They shouldn't be treated as a magic bullet that will allow you to ignore trim and balance. To get the best results, you will need to take into account many different factors that will affect the way your boat moves and take pains to ensure that your setup is free of friction and perfectly symmetrical/balanced.

Sheet to tiller rigs are a step up from steering by sail and tiller balance alone. They allow simple mechanical feedback and can be set up in quite a few different ways, depending on your boat's rig and your point of sail. While less convenient than a windvane setup, they are more versatile and may even out perform them on some points of sail. For instance, many servo-pendulum gears do no have enough sensitivity for downwind sailing in light air, while twin jibs with sheets led back to the rudder will stay on track in the lightest of breezes. The downside is that while simple, the different setups require much trial and error to perfect and also have to be re rigged every tack and course change.

If you have the money and the inclination to do the job right, the windvane is the obvious choice. Stick with sheet to tiller if you want to take it slow and learn as you go, or aren't ready for the commitment that doing a good job of your windvane installation will take.  The convenience and reliability of a properly set up system really is a wonderful tool for the long distance sailor, but it needs to be done right or not at all. Because I started with sheet to tiller rigs, I learned about the importance of sail trim, balance, feedback tension, friction, and how to manipulate them to make the boat do it's thing. This has really helped me deal with my janky old Aries, which my girlfriend has dubbed "Flippy". After a partial rebuild, he will do the job if all the conditions are right, but he would cause major frustration to someone who just wanted him to "work".

So, maybe what you should take from this is that while a new vane gear might be pretty expensive, saving money on a used one might not be worth the headache if she doesn't perform "like new".

Also, some of the same hardware is used for sheet to tiller rigs as windvane rigs. With a snatch block on the inner side of each cockpit coaming and a pair of opposing cam cleats mounted on the top of your tiller, you can reeve a control line from your vane gear or simply attach a bungie and a line connected to your mainsheet (read more about sheet to tiller rigs for the specifics). My Aries has a small chain and a sort of chain-hook thing to connect the control line to the tiller, which I dislike immensely as it keeps trying to pinch my fingers off.





You can see here that I removed that chain poop and just have a small piece of line tied to the tiller with a constrictor knot. To tension the line, I used a beefed up rolling hitch so that I could slack the control lines to remove them.

First chance I get, I will be going back to the cam cleats, which allow easy tensioning and removal of the control lines. Best way to go, IMHO.

Anyway, that's quite a wall of text, but to sum up, here is my advice in bulleted points:
-read "Self Steering for Sailing Craft" by John Letcher
-learn about boat balance
-set up and practice sheet to tiller
-get a windvane, preferably new, or like new
-if you get a used windvane, you not only save money, but get to practice the finer points of engineering boat balance 
-since your setup is upwards/backwards compatible, you can use sheet to tiller if things break, or you want to outperform your windvane on another point of sail

Good luck!

[w00dy]

Let us know how the Norvane works out!

[Captain Smollett]

Excellent remarks, James.  Grog for that "Wall of Text."

I have never heard anyone explicitly say before that STT can outperform a vane (on certain points of sail in certain conditions), but this is a supremely important point.

Self steering is not a "done deal."  It takes fiddling and adjustment and flexibility (on the part of the skipper's thinking).  Every boat in every situation is different.

I love how your comment emphasized that the 'fiddling' with STT will only help when it's time to install a vane, that the gear is a subset and "thinking" is a subset as well.  It's not an either-or, but all part of the process.

The more I think about this post I realize it's worth more than one grog.  Later, when I can...

Thank-you so much.

[Captain Smollett]

Sheet to tiller rigs are a step up from steering by sail and tiller balance alone....The downside is that while simple ,... have to be re rigged every tack and course change.

Clarification:

Don't wind vanes also have to be re-set-up (adjusted) after a tack or other course change?  For that matter, autopilots, too?  (Though the latter may only involve a few button presses).

Admittedly, the STT gear will require more work.

But even a small course change (with respect to wind direction) will require a vane gear to be adjusted.  I've found small course changes with STT to be pretty easy, just ease or tighten the sheet control line a bit.

Bigger course changes will require total re-rigging to be sure.  No doubt the vane gear is easier on the whole, but it's not "set it and forget it."  Right?

[Cruiser2B]

Because of an untimely but necessary home AC fix( holy heck is it hot here in VA these last few days), i did not purchase the Norvane yet. If seller still has it in a few weeks i may be able to still pick it up. With that said, I am going to try Sheet to Main self steering this week. What type of blocks? Would larger blocks have less friction? I have been reading a litlle about it and it says the least amount of friction possible. I have some garhauer blocks but they are fairly large, they are ball bearing. I will give them a shot anf report back. Any input will be helpful. Gonna stop by West Marine and buy some 5/16 low stretch line. I already have about 25ft of surgical tubing.

[CharlieJ]

Here's a link to an excellent site which describes setting up STT steering. Should answer most of your questions-

http://www.jsward.com/steering/index.shtml