Cat Rigged Boats

[EdD]

As a new member I want to tell everyone how much I'm enjoying the site.  There is such a wealth of information to be had.  I've systematically read most of the posts, and feel I have gotten to know many of you through your comments.  It is amazing how much we all seem to have in common. 

Special thanks to Captain Smollett for telling me about this site, and also for inviting me for a beautiful sail on his 18 footer (I can never remember if it is a Captain's Mate or a Sanibel...they are all very similar). 

My first sailboat was a Hunter 23 that I bought about 3 years ago.  I loved the boat but while it was technically trailerable, it was not easy to do...even with all the masting raising equipment I built for it.  I sold it a few months ago and am now looking for a small, EASILY trailerable boat. 

At 63 years young, maybe I'm just getting lazy, but I'm looking for a small boat with good sailing qualities for lake and coastal gunkholing along with 10 minute set up.  I'm intrigued with the Compac SunCat 17.  At CapnK's suggestion, I checked out all the posts from Jim B at the Trailor Sailor Cat Forum, and it seems to be a good boat.  I'm just wondering if any of you have any experience sailing cat-rigged boats, especially the SunCats?

Happy to be here!

EdD

[xroyal]

Perhaps you've seen this thread by member Frank who has a SunCat.

http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=483.0

He also has a Flicka 20 on a trailer.

I sailed on a friend's cute Sanibel 18. Seems one easy choice for a trailer sailer...along with the Montgomery 17. I like the lapstrake style hull of the latter.

[Captain Smollett]

One question I have about the cat rig is "how well do they heave-to?"

I'm just curious.

The Sun-Cat sure is a pretty little boat.

[xroyal]

Frank's pics speak for themselves:

http://pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?t=1387

[EdD]

Thanks for the info on Frank and his SunCat.  I will contact him by e-mail.  Actually there are 4 boats I'm considering... the Montgomery 17, the Seaward Fox, Sanibel 18, and the SunCat 17.  I also looked at a Victoria 18 - what a sleek little beauty she was.  I'm sure any one of them would provide great sailing although as I mentioned in my original post, I like the set up time of the SunCat.  Will be interesting to hear what Frank has to say.

The decision is hard...the search is enjoyable.

EdD

[Captain Smollett]

his 18 footer (I can never remember if it is a Captain's Mate or a Sanibel...they are all very similar). 

Mine's a 1982 Skipper's Mate.   :)

[Frank]

Here's my 2cents on a Suncat....There is not a quicker,easier,simpler boat to trailor sail,rig and launch ..PERIOD !! I just returned from a group cruise on the Chesapeake sailing with Monty 15's and 17's. Once at the ramp, they had to step their mast,fasten their boom and attach their sails-mainsheet etc. On a Suncat you simply lift the hinged mast and attach the 'quick connect' forstay attachment=DONE !!! It honestly takes LESS than one minute !!! The boom,sails,sheets,halyards etc are ALWAYS in place !! Take down is just as simple....disconnect the 'quick connect' forstay,lower the short mast onto the boom gallows,put a few bungie cords around it and go home !! Compac has done a wonderful job of their 'mastender' (spelling?) system to make this SOOOO simple. If you wonder how they sail,...day one was light air on a down wind run (snicker snicker)....these fast little Monties got to check out the name on my stern....that is until it was too far ahead to read it. Honest...they sail WAY better than you would expect !! Even the M17 guys complimented her on it's pointing abilities. They are well finished and stable.  The only down side is that they are a 'recent' boat so there will not be any older inexpensive ones around. But if you want a new or 'newer' trailer sailer'....they truly sail well,are super easy at the ramp and ooze character.....just my opinion.

[Frank]

PS...a little birdie tells me that if you contact Gerry at Compac yachts he will tell you that they are doing a total re-design of their 16.... Hull/keel mods so it will sail and point better,a BEAUTIFUL new cabin-cockpit look(it too oozes character) and a quick set-up mast/boom arrangment. Best for last...it will be fairly priced to boot !!  I am sworn to keep this secret so destroy this paper after reading

[EdD]

Frank,

Thanks for your comments about the SunCat.  I was going to contact you via e-mail but you beat me to it.  I visited the link that xroyal posted with pictures from your Chesapeake trip...looks like a great time.  I also love the look of the dark green/gold accent SunCat...what a beauty!

My main concern was sailing characteristics...which you answered except for one thing...will it heave-to?  BTW, I won't tell anyone about the new Compac 16...you're secret is safe with me.

EdD

[Frank]

I haven't tried although Larry Pardy speaks of heaving to with just a main sail in their storm tactics book/video , so I assume you could.  PS...the green IS beautiful and they have a dark blue also....BUT beware...dark shows marks easily and way more prone to fade , so if you plan on leaving it in the sun....get biege.

[xroyal]

Frank, Your ease of setup/takedown is enviable. Up to now I had been charmed by the features, but, man, do you pay for them. Looks a new one w/trailer and extras could run to $20,000 in a hurry. Here's a link to factory  pricing:

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatFullDetails.jsp?boat_id=1285272&ybw=&units=Feet&currency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=1456&url=

As you say, used ones not far behind.  Still, if one wants to trail, and be on the water in style, it looks a charm.

I found a Monty 17 with Trailer and extras for $4000, but then I opted for my Santana 22 to get the 1230 lb keel for our windy (!), often white capped  lake.

[Frank]

Welcome to 'new boat' pricing....yet...what does a new toyota corrolla with air/frieght etc  cost  AND  will you be driving it in 20yrs ?? and if so...what kinda shape will it be in??  FYI..a new M15 with trailer is approx $12000 before shipping but has no lights or even a topping lift !! And ya can't even sit up below alone let alone 2 people. Really...the prices are NOT high....simply 'current' to our economy. Those 'cheap' 25yr old boats most of us compare to, probably cost the same back then relative to wages and economy at the time and have depreciated a lot less than a car over the same period.  REALITY sucks some times !!!

[Captain Smollett]

Those 'cheap' 25yr old boats most compare to probably cost the same back then relative to wages and economy at the time and have depreciated a lot less than a car over the same period.  REALITY sucks some times !!!

I have the original sales slip for my boat from the previous owner; the boat was less than $6000 in 1982, brand new, with trailer, wired for lights and included an (admittedly undersized) anchor AND a porta potty.  I bought her for $2800; that's pretty good retention of value.

As comparison, I bought a 1983 Nissan Sentra new in 1983 for $4000.  I sold it around 1991 or so for $500.

But, does $6000 in 1982 = $20,000 now?  That's over 300% devaluation of the dollar.  My boat is comparable to a Monty 17.

[s/v Faith]

I think a cat rigged boat is cool, and I would love to sail one some time.

  'Good old boat' has a write up on the no such 30 (?) this month, they extoll the virtues of a cat rigged boat.  Sure seems to simplify the rig.

  Leave it to Frank to 'discover' them for us.   ;D

[Frank]

Capt Smollet...just for fun...As I recall..in 1982 I made approx $24000 at what was then a much better than 'decent' job.So , in comparison to today would a $72000 (3x24000)per yr job be better than 'decent'? I really don't think things have changed too much. .boats are 3x the price..Also,a  compac does cost more than a 18ft catalina etc,but is not mass produced and has better fittings etc.The lil sun cat has an opening screened hatch,2 cats eye opening screened ports,a traveler,SS rubrail,stayloc fittings and nice teak trim and teak/holly floor , their neat quick 'mastender' set-up and a boom gallows. Old addage "ya get what ya pay for" still holds true. I hate paying that much,but I sure like earning more !!!

[Frank]

S/V Faith...the nonsuchs were built here in Canada. One of their last new models was a 22 with an unstayed mast and standing headroom as well as an enclosed head !! 1st they had diesals,then they brought out an OB model ,slightly stripped of some teak etc. to keep the price down. Neat lil boats...kinda like the 'flicka' of catboats.

[Frank]

EdD..the boats you are considering are all worthy , but as pretty as the victoria 18 is...its keel makes shallow ramp launching real hard and it is TINY inside so if you plan on short cruises , I would look at the others.

[EdD]

I certainly appreciate all the responses to the Cat-Rigged post.  Between what I've read here plus the comments from Jim B at the Trailer Sailor site, I think I'll start looking for a used SunCat.  I know they are hard to find but I'm not in a great hurry.  I have a sailable boat, a 1971 Venture 21.  She ain't cherry, but she floats.  I agree that the Sanibel, the Montgomery 17 or the Seaward Fox would all be good boats, albeit with somewhat longer setup times. 

Will keep you informed on the progress of the search.

Thanks again!

EdD

[Captain Smollett]

Ed, you probably found all these already, but:

2001 Suncat for $13,970

Several Sun Cats listed

2006 Sun Cat is listed if you do a search for Com Pac.

Best of luck, and I hope I get to see her when you find one!!

[xroyal]

Ed, Yacht World has 5 17' SunCats listed.

Frank: I'm almost 67 and retired (since age 50) from my excellent salary so I go for the oldies. A new Santana 22 with all the extras I got (including custom trailer, 7.5 hp Evinrude ls and 7 bags of sails) cost about $40,000. Mine is looking good and ready to sail for $2400 (+ new trailer tires and hauling her home from Vancouver, WA = total of $2900.) I was tickled to get new navy blue Sunbrella covered cushions in the cabin and v-berth in the deal. Local dealer for those cushions said he would charge $1000 for same. The price of foam has naturally tracked oil $.