Carribbean 1500

[AllAboutMe]

The following was hijacked from the Official Carribbean 1500 site.
The fleet are waiting in Hampton till at least Thurrsday to let the weather pass. BETWEEN THE SHEETS and FARAWAY EYES decided to sail independently and at 11:00 today BTS emailed the following report:

"We are having a great sail, but I would not do it in any smaller boat. We are 300 miles out already with plenty of headwind as of midnight.

Position N3304 W7400, winds 122 true at 25-30 and gusting higher, boat speed 8.5 knots. We are close hauling due south until the wind clocks through the south and then we will tack east until winds behave.

We had a miraculous stream crossing - only 40 miles wide - entering at N3527 W7458, right off Cape Hatteras."

I have to wonder about the smaller boat comment. What real difference does size make?
The official minimum boat length allowed for the rally is 33'. I suppose they have to set a limit somewhere, but why 33'?
Most of the boats participating are in the 40' plus range.
Comments?
Larry Wilson
Columbia 8.7 (almost 29') and would have no qualms at all about doing this rally.
Columbia Saber (almost 33') and wouldn't be caught dead out there in it.

[Fortis]

the old reasons for restricting minimum boat saize at such rallies was officially "Waterline lenght equals speed, so we like to try keeping the fleet together in terms of capabilities" (smaller flock to patrol.)

Somewhere in the background was the fact that if the rally needed insurance coverage, the insurance company's specs and standards were often refected in the minimum size criteria. (Boats between X and Y size are within this bracket ...so all boats in the rally must be at least bigger then X or we end up having to pay for two brackets of cover)

Finally, in the "it's not at all something to be talked about category" is the fact that restricting by boat size is "allowed" in most poeple's views on safety grounds and so on....But it does tend to restrict rallies to "the right sort of people" for that event. 33-36 foot boats are about the breakout point for the small family pleasure sailer that can be kept on a "normal" income...that and above is all "executive" or well and trully self-funded retirees. There expectations and interests beyond sailing are pretty well known, so catering to that demographic is easy for the organisers (and the sponsors they hope to attract).

Sure. I know a couple of guys who are worth around $10million each that have boats respectively 28 and 26 feet....But lets face it, they are the exception (and they have both bought those boats after selling much bigger ones in the 40-55 foot range, when they discovered what they enjoyed was sailing and not "keeping/owning" a yacht. They saw the light, in other words!)



Alex.

[AdriftAtSea]

As I said in another thread... many of the large sailboats that are bought today are bought as a replacement for a condo or weekend/summer retreat.  Why else would you need three and four double-berth cabins, and a salon that is large enough to have a dance party in.  Many of these boats are unsuitable for making a long sea passage, as none of the berths are suitable for use at sea.  When was the last time you saw lee cloths/boards in any of them.

The exceptions Alex (fortis) talks about are rare, but they do exist.  I have a couple of them down at my marina.  They bought boats for the love of sailing, rather than as a place to show off to their friends, co-workers and peers. 

[Norm]

Hello All:
I was not in the 1500 but did meet some of the sailors and swoped stories in airports on our way home.  I was out there on the same ocean at the same time.

The wind and seas were the worst I have ever seen.  It would make one think that smaller is more dangerous.  Just more conventional thinking.  I argue otherwise.  Safety is not about size, it is about preparation of the vessel and one's self.  A seakindly boat is going to take the best care of the crew.  Those are design and preparation functions, not size.

The boat I sailed down is a Beneteau 352.  It took good care of us.  My regular ride, MELISSA, is a C&C 38.  She'd have been a harder ride.  It makes me shudder to think of it.   I'll take the Columbia Sabre over either... after some reworking (those huge windows, for example).

A couple of notes:
Reaching along in gale-force winds and 30 foot seas was unpleasant. 
The calm that followed combined with the left-over but dying-off 30 footers was torturous. 
Next, we had two days of gale-force winds on the nose.  Don't go to sea in a boat that won't go to windward.  We hove to for 12 hrs 200 nm East of Bermuda since we were making much more to the East than to the South.  One tack was towards Boston.  The other towards the Canaries.  I waited for the Trades to fill in.
After three days, the NE Trades turned into Southerlies.  Did I mention the importance of being able to sail to windward?

True enough guys... it ain't about size.  It's about performance.

Best regards,
Norman
Boston

[Captain Smollett]

Hey Norm,

Glad to hear of your safe return, and thanks for both reports (here and in the Weighted Down thread).

[Norm]

Hey Captain...

It was a wild ride and I enjoyed the opportunity to sail on the open ocean again.  I'll be adding some notes to the Perfect Boat thread soon.  The safe return part is true for me and the other crew member. 

Dear Elizabeth got banged up pretty badly (darn near life-threatening) when the boat lurched during a light air/ big sea day.  She was in a place with NO HANDLHOLDS and was flung out of the aft cabin and across into the stove guard-rail.  Her hip took the brunt of the fall and now looks pregnant due to intenal bleeding.  The guard rail is bent and ripped off.  (E weighs in a 110 lbs!)

It is a problem with small light boats. They get flipped around by the seas so easily.  The trip was as if I went in to the laboratory and tested the light-boat/ shallow-hull hypothesis.  Early reports from the lab are not supportive of ocean voyaging.  Coastal work is fine.

The hull design was seaworthy in that it took a heck of a beating, a few full imersions, and three knock downs.  Inside.... no good for the ocean.  In the cockpit, nothing to hold onto either.

More later in Perfect Boat.  And... E is on the mend.  In a few minutes, I'll start up the fireplace and brew up a pot of tea.  New England in the Fall and home from a sea-voyage.  All good, no?

Best,
Norman

[Captain Smollett]

Dear Elizabeth got banged up pretty badly (darn near life-threatening) when the boat lurched during a light air/ big sea day. 

Yikes.  Glad to hear she is repairing.

She was in a place with NO HANDLHOLDS
{snip}
The guard rail is bent and ripped off.  (E weighs in a 110 lbs!)
{snip}
Inside.... no good for the ocean.  In the cockpit, nothing to hold onto either.

Wow.  I'm not a big fan of Benne-toy boats at all.  I may get berated for this, but it is my opinion that they lie squarely in the category of boats designed to look good at the dock and while entertaining shore-based company (as has been discussed here previously in regard to "Boat Show Boats," I think my Adrift).

A member of the sail club to which I used to belong, a San Juan 21 National Champion, took a Benne-toy offshore and got beat up pretty badly, too.  I don't know any specifics, but suffice it to say, that anecdotal evidence thus far does not speak kindly for them as 'voyaging' boats.

You notice not one single SailFar regular uses these (or similar) boats?  Not one in a group that is currently nearly 200.  I'm just saying, if they were SOOOO popular, you'd think we'd have at least one "modern, tauted by SAIL magazine" design represented here.

I'll start up the fireplace and brew up a pot of tea.  New England in the Fall and home from a sea-voyage.  All good, no?

Indeed.  Well, done, and here's some Grog for ya to put in that tea.   ;)

[AdriftAtSea]

Handholds are very important, and so are having properly designed spaces.

If someone as small as E managed to bend a guardrail, I don't think too highly of the manufacturer of the boat.

As for modern designs, my boat is probably one of the odd ones out, given that it is a trimaran, not a monohull.  :D  I'm not a huge fan of most of the modern "boatshow" boats.

Norm—I hope E is on her way to a speedy recovery... :D 

[Norm]

Hi Dan:
Yeah, the rail was a wussy installation and luckily so.  My take away on the Beneteau is that the "sailing parts" are pretty well engineered.  The "cruising bits' are designed for marina use.  I bet that topic has been flogged to death here.

E is on the mend but pretty grumpy! 

On advantage to a tri has to be that it has narrow hulls.  Therefore one cannot be flung too far.

By the way... we figured out a way to roughly calculate wave heights and observed that waves one day were about thirty feet from trough to crest and about one hundred feet apart.  This was done by observing the boat lenght as a portion of the wave face when surfing down a wave.  We were on the hypoteneuse of a 3-4-5 triangle.  blah blah.  The waves that day were smooth and smaller that we had seen during the first five days.  The problem wasn't the wave size, per se, it was the fact that the storms made for two or three wave directions plus chop.  Random wave patterns are the hazzard.  Peaks... rougue waves... collapsing are dramatic, dangerous, and stunningly beautiful depending on where they are relative to you!

Thought:  guys who sailed in the Atlantic named the Pacific Ocean, pacific, after sailing across the Atlantic.  I have sailed on both and understand their reasoning.

Best,  Norman

[AdriftAtSea]

Norm-

Actually, hadn't thought of the installation being able to give way as a good thing, but it probably saved E some major pain, not that what she received is not considerable as it was.

The other advantage of a tri is that it tends not to rock side-to-side very much.  I've found that the  quick changes in the angle of heel are more likely to throw you about the cabin than any other motion on a sailboat, and on a properly sailed tri, those changes just really don't take place much.

[CharlieJ]

With one large exception. I always found my tri to be MUCH more comfortable than a monohull, both sailing and anchored. I fact in a lumpy anchorage I'd FAR prefer being on a trimaran. I have no personal experience on board a cat, so can't speak for them.

The one exception? sailing in very light air with a left over large beam on chop. In those conditions the tri was like a drop of water on a hot greased skillet. Trying to conform to the chop, which was hitting the three hulls at different speeds, wave heights and forms. Fortunately those conditions don't happen often.

My Cross 35, Different Drummer under power in the Elizabeth River, off Norfolk-



and sailing in the Atlantic, off Fernandina Florida-

[AdriftAtSea]

Charlie-

Didn't realize there was another trimaran owner on here.  Do you still own Different Drummer, or did you sell her?  Those photos look a bit dated... ;)

[CharlieJ]

unfortunately she was sold. Those pics were from my liveaboard days, and when we were cruising the east coast, early to  mid 80s.

We now sail a Rhodes Meridian 25 that Laura and I (in fact, MOSTLY Laura) restored from a junker. The tri was during my days with another lady. I assure you that had Laura been in the picture when I owned the boat, we would NOT be online, visiting bulletin boards ;D We'd be cutting a wake SOMEWHERE.

If I ever get a chance to grab another tri, in decent shape, at a decent price, I'll jump for it for sure. I'd love one about 30 feet , MAYBE 31. Cross 30, Searunner 31, something like that. A good sailing, comfortable CRUISING tri.