I have came close a couple times to purchasing a sailboat but I always ended up walking away. I think im ready now to purchase my first one. Im only ASA 101 certified. But I have been on many different sailboats. Colgate 27,Cabo Rico 37,Alberg 30, Tayana, ;CSY 44. Never an overnight stay and mostly a deck hand with occasional Captian/Helm duties.
What I want Is your opinion. Should I buy for example;
25' Oday, Balboa, Hunter, Catalina, etc. with a trailer to learn on and save ;money, Which will be cheaper all around.
Or a 27-32' boat. ;Cape dory ;Alberg, Yankee, Bristol, Tartan, ;Allied, Albin Vega, Ericson etc. I have a location with free year round mooring ;and public docks for access.
Money ;is a factor. I can afford to purchase the boat(loan) and do a few upgrades. I will be learning, playing, and camping on the ICW/ Waccamaw River with inlets that have access to the open ocean. Little river and Winyah Bay. I have a wife and 19 year old daughter. Neither one enjoy boats but would sometimes accompany me dockside at a marina and maybe a half day cruise down the ICW. So most of the time by myself or a buddy. I am also a big guy. 6' 3" 290lbs wide shoulder football build. I, like many others had and still have big dreams with little experience and shallow pockets. Thinking im going to buy an Oyster, Passport, Alberg 37 etc and sail the world. Well it's probably not going to happen. I am willing to start slow and maybe someday make it over to the bahamas or Caribbean with a few years experience and proper upgrades.
First sailboat I ever sailed on was a center cockpit 44' CSY. I was even allowed to take the wheel. I enjoyed my self but no where near as much as when I sailed the Colgate 27. Fin keel, and tiller steer. I prefer tiller. The colgate was very responsive and turns on a dime. Tons of fun. I received my ASA 101 on this boat. Fun boat but very small. I know i can't have everything I want and I have to compromise. I looked at and almost bought an Alberg 30. I love em.
I also will not pay a minimum of $275-$300/month to dock a boat at a marina when I can Moor it for free or trailer a boat. Winyah bay in Georgetown SC is large but there's a lot of shallow areas. Still a lot of fun. And many cool anchorages and places the lift sail on the ICW/Waccamaw river between little river inlet and winyah bay inlet. I also want to throw out there that i can do anything carpentry or electrical wiring related and work on gas motors but I know nothing about fiberglass and diesels I have read don casey and Nigel Carters books about boat maintenance, wiring and diesel motors. I appreciate all and any advice. I have a library full of sailing books. I'm well read but little experience. Maybe 40 hrs on a sailboat. All my life on powerboats. Thank you thank you.
Easy answers this time.
Go to Georgetown Landing, ask for Kurt on Katie Marie. He lives aboard, and runs this site. You'll like him.
Knows the area, and boats
Don't take him a huge jug of rum though ;) ;D ;) ;D ;)
If you have a location for a free mooring, that is the best way to keep a sailboat.
As far as what boat to buy, I would first recommend not taking a loan for a boat. There are a lot of cheap boats out there. With a mooring you can get a keelboat which is not a trailerable boat. Where I live, keelboats are going for cheap cheap cheap, less than trailerable boats. The key is, the boat needs to have sails, mast, rigging and rudder/tiller in good working order. Hopefully not too much cleanup in the cabin, but that can be taken care of. You may buy a project that will take you a few years to bring it to a good condition. But then you have a vehicle to take you anywhere.
If you can find a stock boat that someone has loved but maybe neglected for a year, that is the best starting point.
Don't expect to convert your wife and kid to sailing. It is like camping, plus it moves around a lot and is scary. So plan on singlehanding at first. After you learn, you might be able to selectively take family and friends out on good weather weekends and lure them into sailing.
I would recommend that you look for a boat on this list:
http://atomvoyages.com/planning/good-old-boats-list/288-good-old-boats-list.html
You can also select a fin keel boat, but I would recommend you stick to the list above, because then you will only have to fix up a boat one time and you will have a boat to go anywhere. Also, don't go over 30 feet. Seriously.
Also, the best motor is a gas outboard motor, either in a well or on an outboard bracket. An inboard diesel is good if it is running and the boat is not too expensive. But your best bet is a 10hp gas outboard with remote start and throttle, and if on a bracket, with remote steering.
On most sailFar style boats, 10 HP is overkill. Tehani at roughly 7500 disp (loaded for cruise) runs hull speed with an 8 hp Yamaha, running at UNDER half throttle.
In many many miles of cruising, I've never needed more than half throttle.
Quote from: CharlieJ on November 28, 2013, 04:44:33 PM
Go to Georgetown Landing, ask for Kurt on Katie Marie. He lives aboard, and runs this site. You'll like him.
CJ....you feeling OK ?? ;D ;) :o ::)
sorry Capt.... I couldn't resist.... ;)
I agree with others that have advised keeping the costs reasonable, with no loan, if possible.
As one who also had a partner/GF that that wasn't committed to sailing and cruising in a big way, and who bought too large a boat for my cruising needs and to be able to handle financially comfortably, I'd recommend limiting yourself to a 25-26 footer.
After my overreach, I got a Cape Dory Typhoon 19 and a good trailer. We had more fun with that boat. I sailed it for 12 years and have missed it since selling it about 8 years ago.
You don't necessarily have to go with a centerboard/keel centerboard design to be trailerable. Charlie trailers his full-keel Meridian 25. Others trailer Ariel 26s. Especially if you are just trailering to launch/haul and will keep the boat on a mooring.
I was just looking at this Pearson Commander 26 (the weekender model of the standard Sailfar Ariel 26) for $1500...
http://annapolis.craigslist.org/boa/4218292918.html
If it is in decent shape, you can't really go wrong with a boat like this (IMHO). A fantastic boat for daysailing/weekending and modest cruising, with a roomy cockpit.
Quote from: Frank on November 29, 2013, 12:21:20 AM
Quote from: CharlieJ on November 28, 2013, 04:44:33 PM
Go to Georgetown Landing, ask for Kurt on Katie Marie. He lives aboard, and runs this site. You'll like him.
CJ....you feeling OK ?? ;D ;) :o ::)
sorry Capt.... I couldn't resist.... ;)
:D :D Yep- hey last time I called over there, Craig was hanging out with some funny voiced oriental dude!! On Kurt's boat :D :D
If you've got any cash at all, do yourself a favour and don't take out a loan. It'll wreck your fun. I've only had two sailboats. My present boat, 28' Herreshoff wooden boat, was bought with cash and is much more fun because I'm not worried about the loan. Those would-be monthly payments have come in very handy for rebuilding costs.
For me, I tried to get the smallest boat that would serve my purpose. I thought I needed standing headroom. I was convinced by a friend that standing headroom wasn't important. I'm glad I listened to him. I've got just 4' 10" and I'm never bothered. (I'm 6' 250) When I'm down below I'm sitting or lying down.
So, in my mind, any small cheap boat that you can buy for cash and sleep in will do what you've described and will give you a lot of service and be very cost effective. Any of the smaller Pearson boats would be good candidates.
John
Thank you everyone. I really don't care either about standing headroom on a boat but I would like to be able to get a decents night sleep. No in the fetal position. Do you think a 6'3" 290lb person could sleep in a V-berth or sette/quarterberth or would I have to sleep on the floor of a boat around 25' I also walk the docks and spend a lot of time in Georgetown. Its a beautiful old town. Its to bad they had a bad fire and lost my favorite bar. BUZZs Roost. Maybe I will give Kurt a shout when I am down their. Thank you again.
Vee berth in my Meridian 25. 6'6 inches long.Has 5'9 headroom in main cabin
That Meridian looks sweet. My kind of boat. I talked to the Towboat guy in Georgrtown SC. Last week. He said the city is really pushing for a city mooring field now and trying to stop free mooring. Their trying to clean up all the derelict fishing and empty boat's. Someone told me people were doing stupid stuff like throwing engine blocks in and using them for mooring and abandoning boats etc etc. They have been talking about this for years but he said there really pushing the issue now.
I see that Cape Dory 25's sometimes come with trailers. The 25 not the 25d are reasonably priced. I like the boats that have the well for the motor. There is also a yankee dolphin with trailer for sail. A bristol 27 or Alberg 30 with good trailer would be my goal but my little F150 wouldn't pull it safely or at all. I would have to borrow friends diesel. Thanks for all the guidance. I need it.
If you can afford the Dolphin, take it. There is no better boat in that size range, in my opinion. She is the little cousin of my Pearson Wanderer, designed by Bill Shaw who at the time worked for S&S. She is a handsome, rugged little cruiser and the Yankee boats are very well built.
Quote from: champlain72 on November 28, 2013, 03:05:08 PM
I can Moor it for free
Sound's like you are in the Georgetown / MB area?
Yeah, go look up Kurt. Leave your liver at home, though. ;D
You do probably already know this, but there are a LOT of places in the GT / MB area to anchor for free, and safely.
I kept my Alberg 30 at anchor on the Sampit River for 18 months; it's not a bad anchorage. I was directly across the channel from Hazzard's Marine's face dock, so a little farther down river than the main anchorage area.
It is a good idea to get the smallest boat you are comfortable with. The larger the vessel the expense increases exponentially. The paid for factor is to be highly recommended. It does make a big difference where and how you will use the boat. If it is kept in the water difficulty launching and retrieving is mitigated. If you will launch from a trailer every time you probably will not prefer a boat that takes two hours to launch and rig. Overall every boat, short of a 198' Feadship, is a compromise. Boat selection is about what features and characteristics you want to emphasize, often at the expense of other characteristics.
If you are looking for sailing experience you can often find racing boats looking for crew. You can learn quite a bit by sailing on boats where they are trying to maximize speed. That said most cruising boat, especially small ones, perform nothing like a performance oriented racing boat. A full keel heavy cruiser will not feel nearly as fast nor as nimble as a fin keel spade rudder boat with new race sails. On the other hand it will be probable that the berths will be more comfortable on the cruiser. You have to choose a boat you like as you are in the best position to determine what features are most important to you.
It is a good idea to get a boat in good condition over all. A beat up boat with spongy decks or other structural problems, no matter how well equipped, is generally no bargain. Do not get a project boat unless you want a project. If you want to sail and cruise get one that is ready to do that now. After you use it some you can decide what upgrades are highest on your priority list.
Personally I am a fan of the Cape Dory and other Alberg designs. This is not by any means intended to disparage other makes, just one persons preference. You may also find that over time as you gain more experience your preferences evolve. Read all you can and try to look at as many boats as is convenient.
Phil Rhodes out did Alberg hands down
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Good post. Just kidding about the designers ;D ;D
Of course I do LOVE my Meridian :D
Quote from: CharlieJ on January 09, 2014, 11:51:30 PM
Phil Rhodes out did Alberg hands down
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Good post. Just kidding about the designers ;D ;D
Of course I do LOVE my Meridian :D
Phil did a nice job on a 25' day sailor.... If only he had drawn a bit more beam so it could carry stores for cruising... Oh, but wait! Then it would be an Ariel!
;D
Nah- wouldn't have the lovely sheer line
:D ;D :D ;D :D ;D
DAY Sailor?? DAY SAILOR???
Yep- some 10,000 miles since re-launch
Hi Craig ;)
Quote from: CharlieJ on January 10, 2014, 12:09:58 AM
DAY Sailor?? DAY SAILOR???
Yep- some 10,000 miles since re-launch
Hi Craig ;)
Hey Charlie! ;D
Phil did a nice job on a 25' day sailor.... If only he had drawn a bit more beam so it could carry stores for cruising... Oh, but wait! Then it would be an Ariel!
;D
[/quote]
TOO FUNNY :o ;D :D ;) ;)
You know what? In all seriousness (mutiny, I know), just think for a moment what it would be like to have Alberg and Rhodes sit on a panel and publicly discuss boat design - kind of like a contemporary "con" where we could ask questions and such. Imagine Alberg walking us through a design - beginning to end - via a youtube video.
I read an article a few years back (mentioned it on here somewhere) where one designer was asked essentially about modern trends. His reply was that "these fads will die out when people realize they don't serve a functional purpose at sea." That's a paraphrase.
A panel discussion with Alden, Alberg, Rhodes, Stephens, Giles, Herreshoff ... probably missing more than a few.
Value is not measured by price tag. It amazes me, continues to amaze me, that the products of these minds remain infinitely more valuable than 'modern' tubs, yet the price tags (in a lot of cases at least) are inverted to that value. Really....most Alberg boats for under $30,000 compared to some of what I see for twice or three times that?
It truly boggles the mind.
Oh Boy would THAT be a panel discussion worth listening to.
Quote from: s/v Faith on January 10, 2014, 12:00:30 AM
Phil did a nice job on a 25' day sailor.... If only he had drawn a bit more beam so it could carry stores for cruising...
Awhile back I saw a local ad for an Alberg 35 on CraigsList...and was amused to see among the seller's description..."nice weekender"...
Naturally, I was tempted to write and point out that my Alberg Typhoon "
weekender" model was 18.5 feet LOA and 2,000 pounds, and at 6 or 7 times that displacement, well he was just going to have to find a different word to use. ;)
Quote from: Jim_ME on January 16, 2014, 06:20:48 PM
Quote from: s/v Faith on January 10, 2014, 12:00:30 AM
Phil did a nice job on a 25' day sailor.... If only he had drawn a bit more beam so it could carry stores for cruising...
Awhile back I saw a local ad for an Alberg 35 on CraigsList...and was amused to see among the seller's description..."nice weekender"...
I was aboard Tehani, tied in a marina over on the Florida east coast one time. Heard a lady walking down the dock comment- "oh, what a pretty little weekender"
I replied from below-
"Yes, and she's weekended her way all the way form Texas to here, including a short gulf crossing"
Then there was silence :)
I stuck my head out and engaged the, as it turned out, very nice couple in conversation, and showed them below decks.. She was simply blown away with the idea that you didn't NEED 40 or 50 feet of boat to go cruising.
Thank the boating press >:( for that attitude
Quote from: CharlieJ on January 16, 2014, 08:55:05 PM
Awhile back I saw a local ad for an Alberg 35 on CraigsList...and was amused to see among the seller's description..."nice weekender"...
Like Charlie said, thank the magazines for that. I've seen articles in the sailing rags that call 30-35 footers weekenders; we've heard good cruising boats in the mid-20's called daysailers.
A few weeks ago, a lady I know was picking my brain pretty hard about our time living aboard. Turns out, she is interested "simplifying" and wanted some input on what it's like. To give her some perspective, I told her that our entire living space aboard the A-30 was about the size of many walk-in closets or contemporary bathrooms.
To her credit, she did not bat an eye on that. I think she's serious. She has a one-year old, so if her husband, her and the baby are going to make a move like that...now is a great time to do it. That's my opinion, anyway.
The American concept of "space" is driven by "luxury advertising." "They" are selling the idea that one somehow deserves space and free time and stuff and ... well, whatever they are selling. Well, deserves, or "needs."
I'm happy to see others reject that notion. I think there is a lot of peace that comes with simplifying - which is something we used to talk about a lot here. Smaller boats bring a LOT of positives, and it mostly just saddens me when I meet folks that think a couple cannot comfortably cruise unless a 40+ footer is the boat.
Out of curiosity, put the plans together at about the same scale, to visually compare...
I've never been aboard a A-35, but I have been on an Alberg 37. Very, very nice boat on the inside. And, of course, gorgeous from the outside as well.
I think I read somewhere that Alberg never drew and ugly boat.... ;D (no bias here! ;) )
On Edit: PS - Sorry for the thread creep....