sailFar.net

Looking for opinions as to what is necessary for Coastal/Carib cruising. I am trying to keep it simple. Some things I have already settled on are:
1. SSB, usual instruments -wind-depth-speed-handheld GPS
2. VHF  with hailer,  vhf ram mike-cockpit also hand held VHF
3. Airhead toilet
4. all chain rode, primary anchor-Delta 45# Danforth secondary
5  No pressure water,foot and hand pumps, foot for sea water, hand pumps that will take water from 6.5 gal containers.
6. Engel ref. 
7. 8' nesting dinghy-I have a 2 horse honda 4 strokethat i will take that along on stern rail-small Danford for dinghy
8. Single gimbaled propane burner-galley Cabelas propane stove on stern
9. laptop with wifi
10 safety, PFD,s flares, propane detector, selonoid, tether
the following I am not sure of,Microwave,forward looking sonar, heat, hot water ,radar ,plotter, any suggestions--thanks-30'boat Col.

I would add charts and necessary equipment for plotting to the above list.

Perhaps a radar reflector

curtains
Auto pilot
More water, at least 30 gal per person. figure 2 gal per person per day until you get used to it.
enough fuel to go 300 miles into the wind
Comfortable bunk
Sunglasses
fans
Spaire anchors and rode.
dinghy anchor
Spaire parts.
good cushions
WiFi for computer
a good mail forwarding service. It will save you the cost.
manuals for all
Holding tank at 10 gal per person.
proper batter recharging for 2x expect power usage.
replacement parts.
Water sports gear
Fans, It was 80 yesterday, a must over the bunk and dinning room.
Turkey baster

Want my list? It is over 500 items and some are not KISS but it is nicer. Why make it hard on yourself if you do not have to.

well- one thing from me personally- I HATE, abhor, detest. and kinda don't care for hand pumps. I use foot pumps for all. won't have pressure water aboard, no how, no way.

Here's a scenario- you have dirty hands so you want to wash them-

pump a bit of water over one hand to get it wet ( oh- now you have a dirty handle on the pump)

Put a tad of soap on the wet hand, wash the two hands, so now you have two clean, but soapy hands.

Pump a bit of water to rinse the one hand ( now ya got a dirty SOAPY handle) :-\

Switch hands and rinse the other one. Now your first hand has soap on it from the handle :-[

So you rinse the first one again, using that soapy pump handle ???

Exaggerated slightly I know, but give me a foot pump any day- with a two stroke pump like the Whale you can run a continuous stream, almost like a pressure pump has.

And from what I've seen the forward looking sonar is not yet worth buying for us. At best it'll give you warning JUST before you whack the bottom Besides, from what I hear and from my experiences in the keys, it'll take you less than a week to figure which color water means "Don't go there"

Some of the rest I wouldn't give room to but that's personal choice. Nothing wrong with having the stuff if you want it.

But one other thing- for my second anchor I'd carry a different TYPE than the primary. We carry three different types aboard when away from the Gulf coast on the theory that if the bottom is wrong for one kind, another should work..

Quote from: CharlieJ on February 18, 2008, 12:06:40 PM
well- one thing from me personally- I HATE, abhor, detest. and kinda don't care for hand pumps. I use foot pumps for all. won't have pressure water aboard, no how, no way.

Wheww! ::)  I am sooo glad I have dual foot pumps, just in case I have have Charlie aboard  ;D

Thanks Lynx yes I will get a computer with wifi capability. I purchased one last year, a Itronix on E-bay however my grandson need a computer so I gave it to him. I am not very computer literate however once I am on the boat I will have time to experiment.I have a lot of repair manuals, Volvo, ssb, vhf etc. Is it possible to "scan" repair, parts manuals onto computer?I have a large pile already and I am sure there will be more. It would save a lot of space if I could do it.. Are most of the manuals available on line??. I expect to spend a lot of time on the hook, would prefer to have repair manuals available if off line.
I agree with Charlie about forward looking sonar, however I think it would be a nice feature to scope out anchorages. Since if I install it I would want to do it before I splash, due to the huge transducer that needs to be installed. I do not know if they can be used at the same time as a depth sounder, i think they are on the same frequency

I was thinking about getting a forwared looking sonar last year and was advised gainst it. If you have a cat and go with the dual sensor it moght be better but so far the technology is not quite up to snuff. the sensor is 2 1/2 or 3 inches. Not much good in the top 3 feet of water and if the boat is bobing, not much good.

Singlehanding, I use a stern anchor and deploy from the cockpit. Just back up and then drop it. Hook a yoke and as long as the seas are not to bad you are fine.  NICE breeze in the cockpit. No problem with the heat of cooking. If the seas get bad, just run a line to the bow and release. There will be over 200 pounds of force on that line, beware.

Did you mention safety equipment?

Lynx wrote did you mention safety equiptment--No I have purchased PFD's, however lack most of the things I need (2 type 1's) have several type 2's
Have flares. need propane sensore and selonoid valve. I will probably install Carbon  monoxide detector.. I also need tethers may make them not sure yet.. Time  for another list to Defender---not sure what to get for mob sitiuation. I am sure someone will be able to give me good advice---If only the boats GIRTH would have increased the way mine has with age--I will not buy a bigger boat!! storage is becomming a problem.!!!

Laura and I considered making our own tethers. Then we priced the recommended snap hooks for the ends.. Turns out we'd have saved only a very few bucks, cause the hooks cost almost as much as the whole tether. So we bought ready made.

Now a HARNESS is very different. In fact in the Sailrite book on canvas work there's a plan for a very good harness you can make. There are other plans out there also, many good, some that suck. So get a good one, like Sailrites..

Tethers are a hot subject. I use the old 1/2 inch 50 foot dock line tied to the mast trick. That way I can go anywhere in the boat without taking it off and above deck as well and I do not get trapped in the bow wave. I use it at the dock to. How to get back on board is another problem but at least I will be close to the boat. Most MOB's are never practiced.

Good luck on some of those sensors. I opted not to have them due to to many false alarms reports and my boat has a vent. If the winds dies totally down for most of the night, I might be in a problem. That is what fans are for. 

A bit 'out of the loop' so not sure if this was mentioned...but ya NEED a didger IMHO. Dodger,good anchor and good dingy. :)

Most people have an opinion and I'm about as opinionated as they come.  I don't
believe you can buy a proper tether for the kind of boats that most people on this board are sailing.  I believe that a harness/tether system should be designed to keep you from going overboard where you can be dragged, drowned and  unable to get yourself back aboard.  I was never able to find a tether less than 6' or 2 meters long.  That tether will not keep you from going over on a Triton or a Meridian.  I have three harnesses aboard and all have tethers that have been shortened to 4 feet.  I have jack lines that run freely down both sides of my boat as close to the center as I can get them.  With an 8.33' beam, I can reach everything I need to get to with a 4' tether.

I am with you on that Jim.   If I went over the life lines with a 6' tether I would be playing the hull like a drum with my head.  :o I want to make sure I stay inside of the lines.

Quote from: Lynx on February 18, 2008, 11:42:03 AM

enough fuel to go 300 miles into the wind

Though opinions on this differ wildly, I personally do not consider this a necessity for a sail boat.

If the course is upwind, I would beat in conditions that allow it and heave-to until better if conditions don't.  I view the mechanical propulsion a short-term, short distance solution (in and out of anchorages, along narrow channels, etc).

Quote

Looking for opinions as to what is necessary for Coastal/Carib cruising. I am trying to keep it simple. Some things I have already settled on are:
1. SSB, usual instruments -wind-depth-speed-handheld GPS
2. VHF  with hailer,  vhf ram mike-cockpit also hand held VHF
3. Airhead toilet
4. all chain rode, primary anchor-Delta 45# Danforth secondary
5  No pressure water,foot and hand pumps, foot for sea water, hand pumps that will take water from 6.5 gal containers.
6. Engel ref.
7. 8' nesting dinghy-I have a 2 horse honda 4 strokethat i will take that along on stern rail-small Danford for dinghy
8. Single gimbaled propane burner-galley Cabelas propane stove on stern
9. laptop with wifi
10 safety, PFD,s flares, propane detector, selonoid, tether
the following I am not sure of,Microwave,forward looking sonar, heat, hot water ,radar ,plotter, any suggestions--thanks-30'boat Col.

As mentioned, each of us will have our own point where necessity crosses the line and becomes luxury.

If asked what from your list I have/will have on MY boat, I'd make the following remarks:

"Usual instruments" like wind speed indicator would be left out.  I go hot and cold on the speed indicator and electronic depth sounder.  On the knot-meter, I found a company that USED to make a self-powered knot-meter/log (I really care about having a log moreso than the knot-meter...I don't care so much how fast I'm going as how far I've been for ded reckoning), but the unit has been discontinued.  So, I MAY end up going with a powered unit.  I've thought about a traditional towed patent log.  On depth, I have a depth sounder, but the transducer is not mounted; may mount it, may not.  Dunno.  I do use a lead line, though.

SSB - again, hot and cold.  I like the simplicity of NOT having one, but see the advantages, especially of a receiver.

All chain rode vs. chain+nylon is a personal choice, I guess.  Right now, I carry 60 ft of hi-test chain plus about 250 ft of nylon on my primary.  I don't currently have windlass, so that's a factor as well.

Engel: don't currently have any refridgeration on board...use a passive ice box.  I'm currently working on improving the insulation of the factory box; last fall, 18 qt block of ice lasted 7 days in 90+ degree days.  As much of the positives as I've heard about Engels, though, it's a hard argument to make.

Microwave, sonar, radar, hot water, chart plotter: NO WAY.  Too much juice, too much stuff to worry about maintaining.

ok- here we go.

On Tehani we judge boat speed by the waves astern and the sound the boat is making. After a while you get pretty good. After we've been on the boat a while we can judge within a half knot most times.  As to exactly how fast, I really don't much care. We have a hand held GPS running usually hooked to ships power, so that gives us mileage, which as Smollet says, is what I really care about.


We have a depth sounder with the transducer fitted to shoot through the hull. It works great til you get into shallow water, then goes nuts. It's a small fish finder type- a Humminbird and refuses to read in under three feet. Well heck- that's when I want it most. We've always carried a lead line and used it many many times feeling our way into an anchorage in our travels tween here and Florida and back. Me on the bow heaving the lead and Laura running the boat.

I plan to get a multi band SSB receiver to listen to weather, music and perhaps to the cruiser nets. No transmitter planned. Have a VHF installed, with a masthead antenna and since I got one for Christmas, a hand held VHF, which I found to be pretty nice. But no requirement for sure. The main radio mounted in the cabin does just as well.

For hot water we use a solar shower, but I'm thinking of getting one of the pump up solar showers from Duckworks. It's just a garden sprayer but it's modified by the maker to be a shower- tank is black and it isn't expensive.  We like the solar shower but the sprayer is gonna be much more durable. NO WAY would I have a shower inside the boat on a boat as small as ours. I refused one on my 35 foot tri when we lived aboard full time too- great way to grow mildew. We shower in the cockpit or on the fore deck. If it's to chilly for that, a sponge bath below does the job.

On our bower we carry 75 feet of G4 chain and 200 feet of nylon. Anywhere in the keys, or the Bahamas that's effectively an all chain rode. Backup anchors have 25 feet of chain and then nylon. In fact, all up and down the east coast I never had to use more chain than that. I've had all 75 feet out twice since we've cruised the  boat.

We use ice in an icebox- it's well enough insulated to keep a 15 pound block for 9 days on the gulf coast in June. We use it for drinks, not food. Most of the regulars on here already know we carry no foods that require refrigeration, except for maybe the first couple of days of a cruise. If we can't get ice, then we do without. No real hardship once you figure out how.

Radar, microwave, sonar, etc I can live without. A micro wave would be nice occasionally but we don't have the juice to drive  it, so we won't have it.

I can't see the screens on the small plotters well enough, we ALWAYS have paper charts aboard, plus down loaded charts on the lap top, so I won't have a plotter. We carry a pair of Garmin hand helds ( non-mapping) and when we leave for prolonged cruises, we'll more than likely pick up one more to stow as an OOPS backup. Laura sets up routes, waypoints, etc on the laptop then downloads the entire thing to the GPS, so both of them are identical

We now have LED lighting in the cabin and one incandescent over the galley, but she's just as happy with the oil lamps inside, as am I. We're pretty frugal with amps. In fact we used to go 12 - 14 days on cruises with a single Grp 27 battery and no charging capability. Now we have a solar panel, so by and large we always have plenty.

we do have self powered music making capabilities- an MP3 player and some cd's Laura has burned of our favorite music. That can be hooked to ships power or self powered either way.

Those are my thoughts. They may get sorta modified by Laura, and that's all right, but she really likes us being a simple boat and firmly believes in the KISS principle also. Maybe she'll add her thoughts to this thread.

And if someone wants a towed patent log, I happen to have a brand new, never been used, still in the box one for sale.

Well Charlie, it sounds like we are set up similarly.  I am going to try a Humminbird digital sounder (not a fish finder) in an effort to get better shallow water readings.

Another thing I am looking into is a GPS receiver to plug right into the laptop to double as a plotter, if it works  with Blue Charts.  I have no other sophisticated Navware and probably won't, as I like working with charts. I do have a Garmin Map 76cs as my GPS

I will be getting more chain for the Ariel as the PO took the primary anchor with him. I will probably get a 22# Claw, that along with my 15# Plow and small Danforth should have me covered.

I am going with the Pett waste bag setup for a toilet. The PO took out the head and glassed over the thru hulls already. There just isn't enough room in these boats for a separate head and I can't stand sleeping in the same room. The Pett setup will allow me to set up in the cockpit for the daily constitutional if necessary.

Solar shower is what we have been using but am interested in the Duckworths shower.

All my lighting will be LED or kerosene, so expect my two batteries will keep me well supplied.

I can second CharlieJ's post.

I like to keep it simple. = hanked on sails, all lines at the mast (good old steady&sturdy boat, remember?)  Handheld GPS (got 3 of them now) 1 at the nav table on ship's power, another for use occassionally in the cockpit with dry batteries. Paper charts + laptop with electronic charts. (mostly used for passage planning and route planning.) As for logs and windspeedmeters. It's easy to train ones senses and make a good estimate, much more reliable and maintenance free... ;D

I do have a radar since a year back. I hate sailing in fog. I guess one could easily do without in the tropics, but at high latitudes fog comes quick and thick at times. The radar consumes 2 Amps, true, but I do not use it for longer periods very often, plus fog often comes with weak winds (at least around here) so most of the time it's used, the iron genny provides all the juice needed.

The latest bargains (e-bay) is a plastic sextant (one has to play with something during those looong passages) and a Humminbird fishfinder. Since I have a cored hull, i am playing with the idea of installing the sensor on a pole to be lashed to a stanchion when needed... Comments on that ,someone?  ???

Quote from: maxiSwede on February 19, 2008, 05:15:09 AM

i am playing with the idea of installing the sensor on a pole to be lashed to a stanchion when needed... Comments on that ,someone?  ???

That's how mine is "currently" rigged.  What this amounts to is that I tend to not use it.  I've got a trip planned for sometime in the next month or so that will require some thin water navigation (if at anything other than high tide), so I might break it out for that.

Quote from: Captain Smollett on February 19, 2008, 07:27:40 AM

Quote from: maxiSwede on February 19, 2008, 05:15:09 AM

i am playing with the idea of installing the sensor on a pole to be lashed to a stanchion when needed... Comments on that ,someone?  ???

That's how mine is "currently" rigged.  What this amounts to is that I tend to not use it.  I've got a trip planned for sometime in the next month or so that will require some thin water navigation (if at anything other than high tide), so I might break it out for that.

Are you getting correct readings? I like the idea of installing the 'sonar pole' as far forward as possible to get at least some of that 'forward vision' they claim in the adds.

Quote from: maxiSwede on February 19, 2008, 11:08:28 AM

Are you getting correct readings? I like the idea of installing the 'sonar pole' as far forward as possible to get at least some of that 'forward vision' they claim in the adds.

Seems to work okay, the little bit I've used it. I aim it straight down, just under the water, and typically it's been at a stanchion right at the cockpit.  I have not used it much, though.

How to get 12 different answers on a subject, ask 11 cruisers.

Tim, you can get a HOLUX USB GPS that plugs right into your laptop USB, port.  I have one, it's nmea 180 (?) compatible and works like a charm.  The buy it now price, on ebay, right now is $18.99 plus postage.  Do an ebay wide search from their home page.  They got the marine stuff all screwed up so bad that if you do a search for a block, you get 18462 blocks, 18400 of them for old GMC products...

I don't know if this will help but we have a cable to connect our Garmins to the laptop, and use the laptop as a chart plotter. We seldom do under way- usually just for planning purposes and to down load routes and way points. But it's available. Same cord gives us the ability to plug into ships power, rather than use batteries.

Charlie, I have the same setup and do the same thing currently, I'm thinking about linking a receiver directly to my laptop, in essence to have a second GPS in case say, I drop my 76 into the drink ;D

Jim, Those are great prices thanks, now I am just trying to find out if there will be any problem with the Garmin software since they tend to be so proprietary. Have you used Blue Charts with it?

I may go ahead and get on anyway as there is so much more available now in the way of Nav software.

Tim

Hey boating family, I haven't been online much the past 6 months, after buying a boat, getting burned by the boat, and then subsequently getting burned out on boating for a while, I am back and ready to try again, so what I would like to know is, what is your favorite way to KISS? or in other words, what methods do you use to keep your cruising life simple? I am lookin once more at pocket/small cruisers to make a purchase and liveaboard because last time things got too complicated too fast, so lets hear it!!!!

Personally, im doing a compete interior rebuild currently, and ripping out alot of "standards" to go with more of what im comfortable with. List includes:

composting head
kero lamps (possibly led's but not really sold yet)
hand held GPS units
kero single burner sove
jerry cans for drinking water (maybe a foot pump for the sink)

About the ONLY complext thing im considering (and not that compex really) is an Electric Yachts inboard. Supporting wind/solar for recharge. Otherwise, im going to make the entire circuit of the boat VERY simple.

i love the idea of having an electric inboard with solar/wind charging gives you nearly an unlimited range without a fuel cost, and jerry cans for drinking water is ideal for most cruisers because it keeps your water from having mass contamination, i'm assuming you use kero for cooking as well? to keep from needing more than one type of fuel onboard?

exactly. Im trying to be as simple as possible. I figure 2 power sources (electric and kero or alcohol maybe) is enough. I'll row the dink, and if I can't trouble shoot an important system in less than 1 hour, I don't want it onboard.

sailnet had a huge foodfight over inboard electric power several months ago...
but since it was an area I was interested in investigating, I did some math and tried to come up with a usuable solution... biggest concern I could see was generation/storage. Hard to get enough solar real estate in place to charge batteries well... and batteries weigh (and cost) a lot.
Long and short of it was 3-4 hours cruising electric then required several days of recharge. Might work well if you were primarily dockside for shore-power recharge and didn't go long-distance cruising. But that's just base on my calcs. If you're thinking of going that route, be sure to do your math carefully. I was looking at 1,000 lbs. of batteries to get a reasonable cruising range.
Since I'm now relooking boats, I'm likely to land on a small pocket cruiser and do a similar thing as you propose - liveaboard, and try to stay simple. Already have camping down to an artform, so doing it on the water won't be much of a stretch.

My version of KISS is low maintenance.

Four stroke outboard power, easy to switch out motors if one becomes unreliable.  I would not want to mess with an electric propulsion system.

Solar powered electric system with some LED's for lights that stay on a long time (anchor light, running lights, reading light).  No heavy electric loads like refrigeration or microwave.  Although I do use power tools on an inverter and transmit on the ham radio every once and a while.

I like 3 gallon water jugs for drinking water, I can carry two of them a long way if I have to.  The store well and I can also pour from them easily.  I would also like a large water tank, probably a bag system, ideally dual or triple bags totalling over 100 gallons.  I would only fill it all the way when needed.

I want a self inflating life vest with a harness and an epirb attached.

I like my kerosene stove burning mineral spirits, and vented kerosene heater burning cheap kerosene.

Currently using a small pourable portapot which gets poured into a toilet at the marina, and if necessary could be (illegally) poured overboard.  I use a pee bottle which gets poured overboard.

The pump hot water thermos makes cleanup so much easier.  It is my hot water system and makes life much easier.

The blue tarp that fits over the boom and shades the cockpit is extremely important to quality of life. It has a notch cut into it so it extends aft past the end of the boom, close to the stern rail.

Freeskier, Nowell made a great point, which is the model the Amish use.  If you don't have the ability to repair it, you don't want it.  The object is to sail, not run a boatyard repair shop.  If you haven't already, read Lin and Larry Parkey's books.  Perhaps Amazon will have them used. Another are books by Eric and Susan Hiscock. They're older titles now, but still great sources for what you are trying to do.  Manual is better for reliabilitly than power or automatic, and also simpler, and that applies to everything from water pumps, winches, windlass, everything.  The only electronics I carry are fathometer and VHF.  Both are inexpensive enough now they are easily replaced.  Everything else is done the reliable way.  I do carry a GPS handheld, but place more confidence in celestial unless there's simply nothing to take sights on.  The Pacific is littered with GPS wrecks, and I would personally have been lead into trouble by Satnav and GPS on three occasions if my DR hadn't warned me of a problem.  Learn the basics thoroughly and trust them.  Don't take short cuts, and double check everything.  Properly trained and prudent, YOU are the greatest safety device on board.

celestial nav is something i really want to learn and keeping things as simple as possible is also high on my list, as for the charging issues of using the electric motor i would only use it entering and exiting a harbor or for making short runs in doldrums just to get things moving along, and i'm pretty handy at troubleshooting electrical issues, i like where this conversation is going, but what i want to know is how YOU keep things simple on your own boat, so lets "stay on target"

Okay.  Staying on target--top to bottom.  
1. Track/slide mainsail attachment.  If you have a groove on either the main or boom, get the boltrope out of the groove and install slugs on the sail.  Lubricate the groove once a month or so.  The choices in lubricants is too great to discuss, but you want one that won't solidify in the cold  or discolor the sails, like teflon.

2. A Windex is great for training students about relative wind, but I tire of constantly looking up.  A better solution is learning to use a combination of the sail telltales and knitting yarn on the shrouds and backstay about 6-ft. off the deck.  One skein of brightly colored yarn will last a lifetime.  The only time it may fail to work is in a combination of fog and light air when it may adhere to the shroud.  The windex tells you which way the boat is pointed, while the telltales tell you exactly what the sails are doing, which is what you want to know.

3. The fewer sheaves a line runs through, the less friction, therefore, the better it works.  If you like lines led to the cockpit, try to use the straightest possible run with the fewest possible sheaves.  I prefer that the halyards tail at the base of the mast for the simple reason that if I need to douse sail quickly, the sail should fall at least 3/4 of the way of its own weight and not need to be pulled down.  While other experiences may vary, I've always found I actually spend less time on deck with halyards tailed at the mast base than with lines led aft.  To a large extent, while one system may be simpler, it's often a matter of what you get used to.

4.  Stick with slab reefing.  It's simpler, fewer moving parts, less friction, the sails set better, and almost zero chance of a failure when you need reliability most.  I have always used three reef bands, but some prefer two deep reefs and a trysail.  The trysail does give the advantage of a backup if you blow out the main, but needs a separate track or the laborious task of tying up the main on the boom, removing all the slides and running the trysail up the track in its place.  An option is putting a gate in the track above the top slide of the main when furled.  The gate can then be opened to feed the trysail.

5. Stick to hanked headsails. (Oh, hear the disagreeing uproar!!!)  I've delivered boats for decades and used almost every set-up you can imagine.  90% of all "emergencies" I've had at sea in some way involved a roller furling sail, whether headsail or main.  For geriatric inland sailing, for casual daysailing, for charter boats, yes, I agree roller furling makes some sense.  For serious sailing hanked sails set better, last longer, are much cheaper, have fewer parts to fail, and are easier to maintain.  On many boats there is a huge performance void between the working jib and the storm jib. Hanked sails give you the additional advantage of having a reefing jib which greatly improves performance and retains drive as the seas build.  The best reason---in a couple hundred thousand miles, I've never had a hanked jib fail to do exactly what it's supposed to.  Also, add a downhaul on the jib.  This attaches to the top hank when you set the sail.  When ready to douse, come slowly through the wind.  Start the sheet a bit if you've been closehauled, cast off the halyard and pull the downhaul.  The sail will flake completely on deck and making off the downhaul will prevent the jib from going back up the headstay.

More later.

Before going on, I should add there's more than one way to skin a cat as they say.  Keeping it simple is great, but how you get there will vary from boat to boat, skipper to skipper.  As skipper, when it goes wrong, it will be your fault, so picking the best solution for you is your privilege.

6. When reefing, the reef points go between the foot and the boom, never around the boom, which is just one more reason to get the boltrope out of any groove on the boom.  The purpose of the boltrope (or tabbling) in the foot is the same as on the luff----it strengthens the sail where it takes its greatest strain and distributes the loads more evenly.  If the reef points go under the foot, the boltrope continues to do its job.  If they go around the boom, you've created hard spots in the sail that will cause stretch or tearing.  If your set-up requires you to go around the boom, keep them slack so they're only function is to hold up the bunt of the sail. 

7. Anchors, anchors, anchors, line, line, line.  You can't have too much of either.  When picking anchors, always go to the next larger size on the table.  Anchor tests are under  ideal and controlled conditions.  Real life is rarely ideal.  Carry several different types for different bottoms and different wind and sea states, each with its own rode and chain.  Forget a lunch hook.  Go with only working and storm anchors.  On a boat of under 30 ft. (unless of good displacement), carrying all chain rode is often impractical due to weight in the ends, but 25 ft. of proper sized chain on each rope rode is a good compromise.  Good ground tackle is your ultimate insurance policy.

8. No electric water pumps.  They kill the batteries and waste water.  Foot pumps are great, free the hands, and are reliable.

9. Manual high capacity bilge pump.  A good-sized diaphram in the cockpit is good, but it can be backed up with an Edson high-capacity gallon/stroke pump either permanently mounted or on a temporary board.  For ocean work, it can give you time to keep the water down while effecting other measures.  Study damage control.  Imagine flooding from every source possible and have a plan and materials for dealing with it.

10. Never have a water supply that you can't get to.   I've seen many tanks in the keel or elsewhere that are sealed, and the only way to extract the water was with a pump.  If the pump fails, you're in a bind.  Always have two portable water bottles that can leave the boat with you in an emergency, give you a means of getting water to the boat in remote areas with no marinas, and allow you better control over water quality for drinking.  I usually keep the water tanks pretty heavily shocked with chlorine to protect against questionable sources and keep algae at bay in tanks and lines.  It makes poor coffee, so the water bottles double for personal consumption.  Also, dishes should be rinsed in a little fresh water with chlorine for health, and raw vegetables should have a chlorine rinse.  Already having chlorine in the tank water saves having to mix it for each application.

11. A raw water manual pump or strong bucket is good for bathing, shaving, boat cleaning, washing dishes (unless known to be polluted), thus making the water supply last longer.

Question: How difficult is it to get Kero nowdays. How about Lap oil?

No problem at all.  Use only No. 1 to reduce smoking inside the boat.  Keeping lamps properly trimmed also eliminates nearly all smoke residue.  You can also use mineral spirits.  I usually just grab a bottle of smokeless lamp oil at Walmart when needed, and would use No. 1 for other applications, which is usually available at hardware stores and some gas stations from a pump, or by the gallon can from most paint, hardware, or home-improvement stores.  Gas stations that just pump gas won't have kero at a pump, but "service" stations often do, and more so the further north (in US) you go.

12. Have good charts and plotting instruments and know how to use them.  Hand-bearing compass, 8 X 50 binoculars, taffrail log over electronics (getting harder to find), barometer.  You mentioned wanting to learn celestial.  There are lots of very expensive options.  The best quality training at the lowest price is U.S. Power Squadrons---piloting, seamanship, celestial, weather, cruise planning, compass adjusting, electronics, engine maintenance, you name it.

13.  Have a good spring line more than double the length of the boat and docking lines of at least the length of the boat.  A couple short ones can be added if you wish for floating piers.
An engine is a convenience only.  Between the sails, anchors, and spring line, there should be nowhere you can put a boat under power that you can't duplicate under sail.  This should be practiced regularly for the guaranteed day when the engine fails, or just for when you want to show off and tow in a disabled stinkpot, raft it alongside and put it against the pier all under sail.

14. Tiller is better than a wheel for simplicity and reliability, and also for making you a better sailor. (Oh, there go the screams again. )  An outboard rudder is better yet, but the designer may not have given you that option.

15. A windvane is better than an autopilot, although a portable electric pilot may be a nice addition for short-term use.  Learn to balance the boat and helm so she will sail herself without either.  Be sure your boat has a good traveler of proper size.

16. A four-part purchase tackle with the largest sheaves you can afford for taking yourself up the mast with a good bosun's chair.

17.  A hard dinghy is easier to handle, better for handling ground tackle when needed, safer on a rough shore, more durable, and can double as a sailing dinghy, but comes with the problem of stowage.  Some use nesting dinghies to overcome this problem while keeping the advantages of a hard dinghy.

18. Cabin (several) and anchor oil lamps with 1-inch flat wick.  Where electric lights are felt essential, like running lights or nav station, use LED's as you can afford them.

19. Figure self-reliance in electrical generation (wind generator, solar panel, deep-cycle batteries of proper capacity.  Never use more than 20%, or at most 25% of a battery's capacity if you're wanting them to last a long time.  If you need 100 amphrs, rather than a 100 amphr. battery, you really need 4-5 100 amphr. batteries to provide what you need.  The deeper the discharge cycle, the fewer cycles the battery will provide in its lifetime.

20. A gimballed stove of your choice with good fiddles that can also be locked in place.

21. One place to not skimp is on cushions---nothing less than 4-inches of firm foam, and maybe even a memory foam pillow top over the main sleeping berth.  KISS doesn't mean not getting a good night's sleep.  In colder conditions, an insulation layer between the cushion and berth top to prevent condensation.

wow!!! thank you ThistleCap, that was the type of information I was looking for, almost everything i could've asked for

My kero anchor lamp also is used as my deck light (just drop the halyard a bit) and it has a nice handle for when I need light to do my nightly patrols, or what not.

Here is another good idea for your KISS layout. Consider every time you have on board. Try and make sure it can serve at least 2 purposes and how you would use it. Make notes if you have to. It also helps you fill time when your bored at work  ;D

well i ordered some new books based on what you all have said and based on what i found elsewhere on the forum:

"The Cruising Life: A Commonsense Guide for the Would-Be Voyager"

"Sea-Steading: A Life of Hope and Freedom on the Last Viable Frontier"

"The Cost Conscious Cruiser"

"Self-Sufficient Sailor"

"The Capable Cruiser"

"Storm Tactics Handbook: Modern Methods of Heaving-to for Survival in Extreme Conditions, 3rd Edition"

anyone read any of these books? how do they rank in good information for a beginner???

Quote from: freeskier710 on June 11, 2010, 04:51:10 PM
well i ordered some new books based on what you all have said and based on what i found elsewhere on the forum:

"The Cruising Life: A Commonsense Guide for the Would-Be Voyager"

"Sea-Steading: A Life of Hope and Freedom on the Last Viable Frontier"

"The Cost Conscious Cruiser"...Great
"Self-Sufficient Sailor" great[b][/b]

"The Capable Cruiser" good
"Storm Tactics Handbook: Modern Methods of Heaving-to for Survival in Extreme Conditions, 3rd Edition"  good
anyone read any of these books? how do they rank in good information for a beginner???

Just my 2 cents   ;D

thanks frank, any other suggestions on good/great books anyone??

thank you haidan, i didn't even think about having some way to beach the boat to do repairs, the small things that slip your mind are always the ones that bite you in the butt later, i looked on amazon for the celestial navigation book you recommended but i didn't add it since i already placed my order and won't be placing another one for a week or two

For almanac data, I use:

The Online Nautical Almanac (http://www.tecepe.com.br/scripts/AlmanacPagesISAPI.isa)

If you want sight reductions tables, NGA has HO 229 and HO 249 available for free download as pdf files.  Go to

NGA Home Page (http://www.nga.mil/NGAPortal/MSI.portal) and click "Publications" in the menu at the left.  On the page that opens, click "Sight Reduction Tables for Marine Navigation" (or the one for Air Nav if you prefer that book).  You have to select the Volume you want, and then you can d/l each chapter as a pdf.

You can also find Bowditch "American Practical Navigator" on the same site, which is also very helpful.

I also use the base equations and a calculator (or slide rule) rather than the tables.  I think it is a good belt-n-suspenders approach to at least know how to solve the spherical triangle without the tables if the need arises.  The tables make the math a little easier (for some), but the equations themselves are not that complicated once you get used to using them.

Finally, if you are just practicing and you want easy sight reductions, you can use one of the many online reduction calculators.  I can dig up the link to the one I use if you cannot find a suitable one with Google.

Hope this helps.

JR

@Thistle Cap

Amen!  ;D

Couldn't agree more...(but is nowhere near your level of experience- yet)

Interesting to hear of your experienced problems with roller furlers.... I often feel very alone and backwards sticking to hanked on head-sails

;D

Don't feel all alone with your hanked on jibs.that's all we use also. Workhorse is a working jib with reef bank to take it almost to storm jib size. And yes, we've used the reef. I just hope we never need the third band in the main!!

Agree with most of what I've read here- couple of enlargments-

LED lighting is great- get all you can manage, particularly in the anchor
light (We use a BEBI from Fiji)

Kero or propane. We use kero but burn Mineral Spirits (also Sometimes called paint thinner) FORGET alcohol- it's horribly expensive. A quart. Of stove alcohol in the Bahamas will run you 8.50 or more.

Foot pumps are the only way to go

we have two bladder water tanks, one forward(13 gals), one under th cockpit where the inboard would go. (22 gals), plus half and one gal jugs stowed here and there.

Four stroke outboard- has been dead reliable four over 4000 miles f cruising now. And is very good on fuel.

We live totally on our 32 watt solar panel for all our electrics, including recharging phones and the netbook.

I'm typing this on Laura's Iphone, sitting on a mooring off Coconut Grove aat Miami after almost a year aboard full time. Our only gear failures have been an electric bilge pump- it died from disuse, and a depth sounder that crapper out and was replaced with a LowRance fishfinder. Don't even THINK about cruising the Bahamas or Keys without a sounder. A lead line is great , but the sounder let's you sneak through channels much easier.

We use two handheld GPS units, nEither are mapping units. Both have workd beautifully and are powered via cords to ships power. I'm sold on them. Celstial is great, but for navigating around the various keys, it's kinda useless.

Something no-one has mentioned- make or buy a GOOD easily installed and removed awning. Make a small one for over the forhatch so it can stay open in a rain. REAL life savers. Ours are sunbrella and held with bungees so they give a bit in a wind.

thank you Charlie, I will use every bit of information you have given, I've been keeping up with your travels on this forum and reading alot of posts this past week, everyone here is very helpful and I am glad to be a member of this forum, i plan on having a fishfinder/depth sounder and a few handheld lat/lon. gps units, water storage will be in a couple of bladders plus some 7 gal. water cans, lighting will all be led and as i learned on my last boat solar garden lamps and zip ties make for great deck lighting and make your boat very easy to find when the moon isn't out at night, I lived on my last boat for 6 weeks in Boot Key Harbor, FL. but it wasn't seaworthy, it was de-masted, the rigging was jacked up, interior needed replaced, and had soft spots on the foredeck, also was infested with insects and the rudder was broken in half, but it was a great learning experience and now i know what i need to look out for when purchasing my next boat

We carry the. Five gallon collasible water jugs. Reliant is the name I think. Easy to stow folded up-we have five aboard. In fact I just came back from getting water in the dinghy. Used a hose and filled the jugs without having to carry them- grin. Ours have held up well for severL years now-just be careful of sharp objects, but sail repair tape makes a pretty fair patch :)

and just for info, we last watered in Nassau eight days ago. The tank took just under 15 gallons. That's for the two of us for eight days, without being particularly ccareful. Of course as the days warm, we'll use more each day. We do wash dishes in salt when it's clean, then rinse with our pump sprayer from Duckworks. We DONOT wash clothes in salt water- takes to much fresh to rinse the salt. Laura uses ammonia (usually no soap) in the laundry which doesn't require rinsing, or very little if it does. It evaporates with no smell at all.

I've washed clothes in salt water and Joy...give them a good sunny dry and then beat them, most of the salt gmes in the wind.  I only wear cottons, though~

the 5 gallon collapsable jugs are on my list now, thanks again, and as for washing clothes well lets just say i am still young and dumb so a serong will be all i wear most of the time probably, i like the suggestion about the companionway cover with bungee cords, and i will definitely have a tarp or something to cover the cockpit while anchored but i don't know if i can budget a collapsable cover, i haven't looked far into the subject yet though, also does anyone collect rain water to supplement their h2o supply while voyaging distances, if so how do you collect it and do you store it seperately? i know it rains alot in the tropics

Re.: rain catchers

We've made an awning that goes from the boom gallow in front of the companionway to the mizzen mast (middle of cockpit) works both at anchor and underway if not too rough. Grommet in the middle and a garden hose. Fills jerry cans not main tank(s) just in case.

Also, at anchor the dink is a very good rain catcher, during the VERY rainy winter in teh Algarve-Portugal we regularly caught 20-30 liters per night in it. Used it for laundry mostly. Under way the goose neck is a good place to figure out a way of catching all that rain water that pours down the canvas...

At anchor I would raise the main leaving it a little baggy at bottom; the sail caught the rain and the end of the boom it comes pouring out like a spigot...downer is ya have to sit in the rain in your shorts holding the funnel and hose, or jerrycans as the case may be~

Laura installed a through hull and hose under our foredeck awning- fills water cans that way(at anchor)

we also try to keep the dnghy clean so rain water can be saved for laundry or flush water
in the portapotty.

Some other books for the library:

The Complete Rigger's Apprentice by Brion Toss (A must, IMHO)
The Sailmaker's Apprentice by Emiliano Marino (even if you never want to make your own sails)
Voyaging on a Small Income by Annie Hill
The Pleasures of Sailing by Alfred Stanford
The Compleat Cruiser by Francis L. Herreshoff
The Sailor's Assistant by John Vigor
The Pardey books already mentioned and Hiscock and others, of course



FIRST and FOREMOST, choose a boat that you can learn to repair and improve.  Always prefer equipment that you can fix yourself, make it if you can, and always carry tools and spares for anything and everything.  Naturally, this is much easier if you have fewer things on your boat.  Always hunt for things to cross off your essentials list, then pare it down some more.  Repeat.

Oh, and how could I forget:

The Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Earl Hinz

The Complete Book of Anchoring & Mooring is on my list of books I NEED for my library before I get my boat, thank you for the other suggestions also

What's your library list look like so far?

Quote from: marujo_sortudo on June 20, 2010, 09:27:22 AM
What's your library list look like so far?

You all do realize that we have a section forum called "Book Locker" ?

http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php/board,12.0.html

One of the most useful items on a small boat is a water sprayer. Until last year I used a $3, 1/2 gallon pump up jug with a trigger. Wash dishs in salt...spay off with fresh. Take a dip in salt...quick spray with fresh. Wash cloths in salt, wring out well,spay with fresh and wring out again before hanging up. Really makes fresh water go a long way as much less is used in 'spray' mode.
Then I got the pump-up solar shower from Duck-works. CJ praised them too. They are great for all the same things but use more water. Can't beat the lil 1/2 gallon one on a trailer boat.

Frank, good call! I have one of those on Aquila, and use it for everything you could imagine! Even to cool off when its hot! Love mine, many uses, and easy to fix/repair.

i have several of the small spritz bottles like for spraying with a mist, do you suggest one that will spray a stream also?

If you click on "kiss principle"...scroll down...there is a pic of one. They are great on a small boat for many things. You can pump up the pressure fairly good too. The tip adjusts from a fine mist to a narrow stream.

ok i looked at it and i have something similar to that for spraying cleaner, just a larger version of it, and i know where i can get one just like that

next question, well kinda a question:

I've been reading alot of books lately, some L&L Pardey books and a book called Sea-Steading, both of which mention oar rigs which can move a boat 1.5-2 knots under normal conditions without a ton of effort.  I am a 25 year old Professional River Guide(with alot of experience with oars) and Lifeguard in reasonably good physical shape, which makes me think this may be a great option for myself, plus the added storage space for longer distance travel, replace fuel storage with water storage and remove engine and use that space for more dry storage. Does anyone actually do that for long distances in smaller boats, does anyone have a link or photos? And what is everyones personal opinion on that option?? Keep in mind I'm young and able bodied.

I can answer part of that. I yanked my inboard. I have a small OB that moves the boat fine. While I haven't crafted/tried a skulling oar setup, I know it can be done. I think it was James Baldwin that said in his book (hes still writing) that for every island you can only get to with an engine, there is one you can get to without. Something like that. Basically hes eluding to the fact that, you can find the same beauty out there with an engine or not.

As for ditching my inboard, I have so much storage space now, I honestly don't know what to do with it most times. It really does offer up alot of options.

A friend had me help him pull his engine.  The engine space was then converted into dry storage. One-gallon poly wide-mouthed jars, which can usually be collected from cooperating restaurants after they've emptied the salad dressings, ketchup, mustard, etc. from them, were used.  They can be used for any dry stores from cereal, spaghetti or noodles, rice, flour, etc.  With their use he could provision his boat for a year's cruising, and only occasionally needed to supplement with fresh produce.

the dry storage is definitely what i'm looking for, and having more room for water storage below waterline so i'm not tying jugs to the rails and raising my cg, also fuel gets expensive, engine maintenance, spare pats get expensive and i'm trying to go far on minimum budget, not having an engine will probably make me enjoy sailing much more because i think i wouldn't get rushed as much and could slow myself down thinking more about weather windows, tides, and currents

I think it's a brilliant way to go.  Even with an engine, it's worth the small investment to have a sculling/rowing setup and yet another backup form of propulsion.  Once you set it up, you can pretend you don't have an engine and see what you think.

didn't think about doing that, having an engine for while i'm getting used to rowing/sculling, until i'm fully comfortable in tight spaces

Laundry....not the easiest on a boat. Just came across this looking for a 'no power' washer    http://www.breathingwasher.com/index.htm   Only $19

I've got 2 on order and will report later. Check the video. Simple and ya can see how it would work.

There's an easier way.  We did this like forty years ago when marinas didn't have automatic washers and dryers. At anchor, a plunger, which looks like what they're demonstating, works great and lasts forever, and even in today's economy shouldn't cost $19.  Presoak in soapy water awhile, work with plunger, change water and rinse, and wring.  If you're going to be sailing, a 5-gal bucket with a lid. Put the clothes and soap in bucket with raw water, put on lid and sail for a couple hours.  Boat motion is the agitator.  Wring out and change to  some fresh water, sail a couple more miles, and you're done.

Even easier- don't use soap- use ammonia instead. Doesn't have to be rinsed as much as soap does and leaves no smell at all.

Laura buys industrial strength ammonia from Ace hardware. About a cup full in 2 or 3 gallons of water. Usually she rinses, but if water is short she doesn't.

Oh. And often the wash water is rain water caught off the awning or bailed out of the dinghy if it has been kept clean.

I have to kick in on this, when I was in the Navy we would put clothes in a mess bag and drag it behind the ship for a short while this worked really well on clothes with a lot of grease on them. Just don't want to leave the drag to long. Then a quick raise in fresh water and your good to go.

Quote from: jotruk on July 07, 2010, 08:32:14 AM

I have to kick in on this, when I was in the Navy we would put clothes in a mess bag and drag it behind the ship for a short while this worked really well on clothes with a lot of grease on them. Just don't want to leave the drag to long. Then a quick raise in fresh water and your good to go.

That's a good idea for when you are under way.  I'm sure the Navy spends more time 'at sea' than us small boat sailors, who probably generally will be spending a higher percentage of time at anchor and in port.   ;D

I gather it works as well for dishes...we bought a couple of mesh bags 'designed' for use this method for washing dishes; we use them for dirty laundry.

*Idea*  1:  Invest in metal cookware, dishware, flatware; 2:  On each item drill a hole on a distal edge of each  3:  Clip each item onto a large chain fish stringer and hang it over the side and voila! the minnows and crabs do most of your work for you-  4:  If you try this while underway I suggest adding a magnum treble hook to the end of the stringer;  just in case something big mistakes your bottlewashing for the world's largest spinner lure  ;^)

We've found it actually takes more fresh to totally get rid of the salt water thuan to just wash in fresh (using the ammonia of course). Once clothes are wet with salt water, at least down southbwith our humidity hey NEVER get really dry.

In fact we keep a separate towel just for drying off after swimming or snorkeling. It never goes below.

Now on the other hand, dishes are washed in salt, rinsed with fresh, using our pump shower