The "Elimination of Misery" Principal. TM[/b]
One of the ideas that I believe is important when considering the "how small / how simple / how far" question is what I call the "elimination of misery principal". I have thought about this thread in the context of a couple of threads recently, and wanted to bring it up.
The essence is to avoid things that are not necessary, while targeting specific things that are likely to make one miserable.
Basically, the idea is that there are compromises that are not only reasonable, but necessary for success and they are not the same for everyone. Many happily do without refrigeration, or other "luxuries" and adjust nicely. There are others for whom such choices would quickly cause cruising to not only be "not fun" but miserable.
Often, in our discussions anyway, this idea is quickly sacrificed on the altar of "KISS".. Now, much of our discussions here are centered on solutions that allow a degree of elimination of misery, while avoiding overly complex systems... Good stuff!
One can set about cruising, and take a "Lin and Larry" approach. Set up your bucket, your wash basin, your galley without refrigeration.... BUT! If you (or your mate) are miserable, you will not be at it long.
KISS rightly argues for simplicity, many folks stop cruising because the cost and strain of big boats and complex systems simply suck the joy out of being "out there". Fixing one head is a chore, fixing 3 heads that all break at once can cause someone to just throw in the towel (or go broke!).
For example, Pat mentioned one of her priorities for a boat is the ability to take a shower, in a separate shower in the head.
Now, many of us have our various approaches to this problem and few of us just go around stinky (ok, maybe that is debatable). ;) Obviously, having a separate shower, and the pressure water system that supports it (and likely a water heater) add a level of complexity to a boat.... But here is the thing... If someone is miserable not being able to take a shower, how long are they likely to want to do "this"?
It might seem a stretch, but;
"....What shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"
The purpose of this thread is to acknowledge that this applies at BOTH ends of the "KISS" spectrum. Set up an overly complicated boat, that is too big and expensive so you end up giving up? You loose. Likewise I submit that if you make the wrong sacrifices, and find you are miserable and give up the result is the same.
It is important to figure out what is really important for you. There are some things that I believe are pretty standard... Give me a comfortable berth so I can sleep well, good ground tackle for the same reason.
One person may be perfectly happy washing dishes in a basin in the cockpit, while someone else may find this to be so distasteful they dread washing dishes.. Subsequently they don't enjoy meals... If this "misery" is significant enough for them, they may not want to do this for long.
DarrenC posted; The liveaboard dream vs. being part of a happy couple. (http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php/topic,4190.0.html)
he discusses the very real considerations involved in finding ways for a couple to cruise together. This is a great thread, and I believe that figuring out how to eliminate misery is an important part of makng that happen.
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What compromises have you made on your boat to put this into practice?
What factors either are (or have in the past) made you or your crew miserable?
Old days: porta pottie under Vberth...definate no no for me. Some things are best not shared.
recent:Vicky/I and a 77lb Golden on 23ft for 3mths. Simply could not move without others moving 1st. A lil too much togetherness ;D
My priorities now:
private head with shower (shower while sitting on "head-lid down" is fine)
2 settee's.....both can read on rain days
easy on/off (the low freeboard on Ariel and CP23 was great!)
some standing headroom
good ventilation
shallow draft! Prefer 3ft 6in or LESS (Keys and/or Bahamas)(WAY less stress!)
My preferences are:
outboard (anyone that has had inboard issues understands)
solar
engel (stress free refridgeration)
I'm sure we all say this, but I really would like to consider myself a man of simple pleasures. A perfect example is just last night when I had the rare occasion to have the house entirely to myself - 2500 square feet to roam around in and no shortage of available entertainment, electronic and otherwise. Nobody to account to for how I spend my time except myself. How did I avail myself of this opportunity? I made supper, washed my few dishes and spent the night on top of my mattress with a single bedside lamp reading my old Power Squadron piloting textbook - truly content. I've been that way as long as I can remember whether it was wrapped up in a sleeping bag in the cuddy of my parent's first powercruiser or snuggled up in a tent listening to the rain and wind all around.
Whether I'm an old soul or just overly romantic for the old ways I don't know, but the idea of being completely self sufficient and the resulting freedom of being able to do what I want, go where I want and truly be at the helm of my own life without worrying about any quid pro quo is a constantly burning fire in my belly that I cannot extinguish. In Herreshoff's tome The Compleat Cruiser, reading Weldon's philosophy on building and sailing Rozinante brings me to tears if I'm alone. I'm not kidding.
That being said, in truth the biggest misery factor for me is potential lonliness, so I need to take the Admiral's comfort and happiness into consideration if I'm to avoid becoming a grizzled olt salt muttering to myself (and answering). She's currently pleased with the amenities level of the boat, although she often admires and asks questions about larger craft and their 'goodies', and I'm certain that she's going to require much more if she is ever going to consider a boat as her one and only home. A sticky situation at best when I want nothing more than to downsize and simplify. For now all I can do is take it day by day, use the next season or two to constantly practice my technology-free seamanship and get her out as much as possible so hopefully she will be able to decide what her own misery factors are.
So far:
Like Faith, a separate head is important to me if there is anyone else aboard.
A couple decent pots and pans for the galley. Well, at least one good pot and one good frying pan. I've spent time using cheap camping gear. I don't like it at all. I have some heavy nesting stainless cookware now. Not exactly cheap; but as a one time expense not exactly expensive, either. Cooking is now more of a joy. Doing dishes still sucks, though.
A double bunk. Pull out is fine (and what I currently have, more or less permanently extended). Being on the boat can be quite romantic. To me it's important to have a comfortable place to express that romance. When single this was less of a deal; but even then I wasn't planning on being single indefinitely. Also, a second bunk (a single is fine). Sometimes it is just too darn hot for togetherness.
SHEETS for the bunk (and blankets in the cold months). Sleeping bags are OK for a weekend, or probably while at sea (limited experience, here). Otherwise they just annoy me to no end. I want a bunk I can make up, at least while in port.
Tiller pilot. Sure, sheet to tiller can work, uses no electricity, and can be fun to play with. But the simple convenience of just having the boat steer itself, without a lot of muss, on a long day on the water greatly reduces misery. I don't think I'd be happy cruising without some sort of simple to set up self steering. If I were crossing oceans I'd probably put a steering vane in this category (or at least spend more time play with the sheet to tiller stuff).
Electric fans. It gets hot and miserable without them. Along the same lines, a wind scoop for the fore-hatch.
A good rowing dinghy. I really need to get my exercise or I get irritable (and fat). On shore I do a lot of hiking. On the water I like to take the dinghy out for a row every day. Eventually I'll get an outboard for it (maybe just an electric...we'll see) for those times when the dinghy is a commuting tool, not a source of pleasure. I'm hoping my ugly but practical porta-bote stores well on deck. I really don't want to be restricted to an inflatable, no matter how practical it is (the thought gives me twitches).
A dodger. Helps provide shade in the brutal sunshine, shelter in the rain (the hatch can stay open...luxury!), warmth in the cold, and a reasonably secure way to store things close at hand. Some people hate them (they damage the lines of the boat, and can sometimes get in the way). I love mine. The misery it reduces is sporadic; but definitely noticeable.
Quote from: Godot on March 14, 2014, 11:09:03 AM
A couple decent pots and pans for the galley. Well, at least one good pot and one good frying pan. I've spent time using cheap camping gear. I don't like it at all. I have some heavy nesting stainless cookware now. Not exactly cheap; but as a one time expense not exactly expensive, either. Cooking is now more of a joy. Doing dishes still sucks, though.
Ditto on the good cookware! In our canoe camping days I went through the whole modern ultralight/compact phase until I realized I was replacing gear every couple of trips, especially that ridiculous aluminum cookset with the combination lid/frypan - just awful. A cast iron skillet and two nesting stainless steel billies were worth twice their extra heft when we factored in how much more we enjoyed cooking and eating.
It just occourred to me that this thread could really go in an exciting direction - by way of previous successful collaborative efforts such as the redoubtable Folkboat and the SCAMP cruising dinghy, with enough input from like-minded individuals and enough common ground as to "must haves", the concept/design talent pool we have here could potentially develop an enitrely new one-design class - the "SailFar Cruiser"!
Please - everyone who reads this take a couple of minutes and toss in some honest input. I'm very interested to read all the results!
An interesting concept I think I saw on Mimi Rose (member: marujo_sortudo), although perhaps it was someone else, when they last came through Baltimore was a custom fit space for their cookware. Instead of bouncing around under the sink or in a cabinet, it had an out of the way, but easily accessed place that securely held at least a big pot and I think some other cookware. Of course, Mimi Rose is a custom build. If I were to build a new boat from scratch, and you never know, I would definitely look into something like that. I wish I had taken some photos.
[quote author]=DarrenC link=topic=4195.msg46353#msg46353 date=1394812752]
It just occourred to me that this thread could really go in an exciting direction.....
.....Please - everyone who reads this take a couple of minutes and toss in some honest input. I'm very interested to read all the results!
[/quote]
Grog! A round for all to lubricate your tongues!
Quote from: DarrenC on March 14, 2014, 11:32:16 AM
Quote from: Godot on March 14, 2014, 11:09:03 AM
A couple decent pots and pans for the galley. Well, at least one good pot and one good frying pan. I've spent time using cheap camping gear. I don't like it at all. I have some heavy nesting stainless cookware now. Not exactly cheap; but as a one time expense not exactly expensive, either. Cooking is now more of a joy. Doing dishes still sucks, though.
Ditto on the good cookwarece ! In our canoe camping days I went through the whole modern ultralight/compact phase until I realized I was replacing gear every couple of trips, especially that ridiculous aluminum cookset with the combination lid/frypan - just awful. A cast iron skillet and two nesting stainless steel billies were worth twice their extra heft when we factored in how much more we enjoyed cooking and eating.
I also carry a small Wok. I find it very handy. This in addition to the 4 qt pressure cooker that's ALWAYS aboard. One nice thing about the pressure cooker, even when no cooking under pressure, is that the lid locks on. I once had a pot of spaghetti sauce dumped all over the sole (of a 35 foot trimaran) by an idiot ferry skipper who passed us about 10 feet off, throwing about a 4 foot wake >:(
Pics- shrimp sauteed in beer and Tony Chachere's Creole seasoning, and served with rice on the bridge deck
Tony's is a staple- don't leave home without it. Even found Mexican cooks using it down in Isla Mujeres ;)
Where does everyone "stand" on the matter of headroom?
I've heard it said that anything between comfortable sitting and 'true' standing headroom is not only a waste, but unhealthy as it promotes folks to try and stand, leading to stooping and general poor posture. I can see the wisdom in this since sadly I am one of the exceptions at 76" tall and even Carita's 6' headroom at her highest point is a teaser at best. In order for me to have true standing headroom I would need to move up to quite a large boat, while maybe something where I could sit up straight with a few inches to spare would be cozy without being claustrophobic and lend itself to a prettier, lower windage coachroof.
The "separate" head was the motivation for a complete rebuild of the Ariel interior so that was definitely a priority. In doing so I have pretty much eliminated the VBerth as a sleeping area, but lengthened and made the quaterberths more usable. sink and stove are perpendicular to the center line for safety.
Fortunately I am not that tall, so the standing room in the Ariel is fine, because it is now a must in any boat I get also.
Quote from: Tim on March 14, 2014, 01:51:45 PM
The "separate" head was the motivation for a complete rebuild of the Ariel interior so that was definitely a priority. In doing so I have pretty much eliminated the VBerth as a sleeping are, but lengthened an made the quaterberths more usable. sink and stove are perpendicular to the center line for safety.
Fortunately I am not that tall, so the standing room in the Ariel is fine, because it is now a must in any boat I get also.
Excellent point,
Some things necessary for the elimation of misery may be simple... Bug screens, a blanket... Others require major modification or sometimes complication.
If you have to knock back a bulkhead to be able to sleep comfortably... I say do it. Living without refrigeration is really not all that bad, And can be managed... But for some buying an engle and a solar panel makes the difference between having a good time and not.
Quote from: Godot on March 14, 2014, 11:09:03 AM....
A dodger. Helps provide shade in the brutal sunshine, shelter in the rain (the hatch can stay open...luxury!), warmth in the cold, and a reasonably secure way to store things close at hand. Some people hate them (they damage the lines of the boat, and can sometimes get in the way). I love mine. The misery it reduces is sporadic; but definitely noticeable.
Faith is a very good sailing boat. I could likely sail without an engine, and I likely would if I had to choose between a dodger and a motor.
I don't care how good your foul weather gear is, going to weather without a dodger wears a person out! That terrible trip I made delivering that Bene to Columbia was made many times worse for lack of a dodger.
I will add a Bimini to that if you are sailing in the south.... Bake in the sun during the summer and you are either a "mad dog, Englishmen"... or at least a hot and sweaty mess!
posted from the boat.
I think I'd give up the mainsail before I gave up the bimini!!!
Beside shade, my solar panel is up there.
I'm 6' tall, so I have standing headroom through the cabin until just before the head in Travelnik, but that height also makes the legroom in the tiny enclosed head a bit cramped.
So, I'm putting a shower pan/sump in between the head and hanging locker. That will give some leg room, plus an enclosed sitting/kneeling shower. Since we are planning to spend a lot of time on the ICW and coastal areas, nude solar showers on deck may not be practical. (Don't wanna scare the ladies, ya know? ;))
The hanging locker opposite of the head will be changed to an on demand propane water heater/water tank area, and a door added to close the area off from the main cabin. The head door already closes off the V-berth. I will build the water tank with a deck fill that will be able to catch rain water, and that water will be mainly for cooking and cleaning.
I will be adding a propane stove in the galley, but I will keep the sea-swing as a back-up to use in adverse weather situations.
The quarter berth/settees are 6'8", so that leaves good sitting/sleeping room, and the 6'3" V-berth will probably be used for storage, plus, there is a ton of storage in the area under the cockpit where an inboard engine would be if I had one.
Anyway, those are my planned comforts in a 22' boat.
Couple of things in this subject line.
Craig- I'd love to have a dodger on Tehani- have as yet not been able to figure how to install one that didn't make going forward hazardous. But I'm still looking. Been a couple of times it would have made things MUCH better.
When I was looking to upgrade from the 21 footer, I wanted just a couple of things.. Standing headroom was one- being able to stand becomes a really nice thing after several weeks aboard, Herreshoff not withstanding :D
The other things were, tiller steering, outboard power, and a separate head compartment.
I got two of those three- she has a tiller and an outboard. But also has the "head under the bed" set up. Truthfully, after sailing the boat full time from July, 2005, through December 2011, it really was no problem. I can count on one hand the number of times someone had to use the head, while the other was sleeping, and those usually only in the mornings when someone was being a lazy bum ;) Just never ever was a problem.
People have said "no privacy", to which I reply, on boats the size of Tehani, modesty and privacy are mostly in your head- learn to ignore things ;)
One other thing- the boat started out with a porta potty. The places set up to dump those are few and far between, and the attitudes of many marinas made that less than pleasant, if not downright uncomfortable to dump. I've even been told it was illegal to dump into a marina head ( it's not), so while at anchor in Boot Key harbor, I bought a newer MSD, and set that up to be pumped out. Shoulda started that way!!! So much more pleasant, so much less hassle and few serious costs. Many places have free, or subsidized, and most that did charge, charged inn the range of $5 per. Many places with mooring fields had pump out boats which came to the boat once a week and pumped, as a part of your mooring (or dinghy dock) fees. VERY worth while.
Draw back is mainly that in places such as the Bahamas there are no pump out places (except one in Nassau) so you must be able to deal with it on your own.
The new composting heads really haven't been that wide spread for people to know how to deal with them. Seems like a great idea, but all of them are just simply too tall to fit aboard my boat
Great thread. I totally agree with a dodger!!!
Even my lil Suncat has one.
"don't leave home without one" !!!
I honestly couldn't imagine cruising without
Misery #1: Sunburn. I have a dodger but no bimini yet. The main sheet is connected to the center of the floor of the cockpit, so I need to figure out how to install a bimini without interference. I think it would make a huge difference in quality of life.
2. Cold feet. Warm slippers or insulated boot inserts in cold weather. I also have a diesel heater, which makes the boat liveable if it is over 40F. But even with the heater my feet get cold unless I wear slippers.
3. Uncomfortable seating. I have a hammock that goes from corner to corner across the cabin. A luxury and very high priority. I was thinking about building a post and table in the cabin to provide a good handhold, but that got nixed when I realized it would interfere with the hammock. I need more pillows to allow lounging on the settee and in the cockpit. It is kind of straight up and down sitting as is. Pillows would allow more slouched sitting.
4. Uncertainty at anchor. I need a bow roller and modern anchor of about 30 pounds. In order to sleep at anchor, you need what you need to keep from dragging, plus a big additional amount to feel secure. Right now I have a 25lb Claw, which is a good anchor, but I would sleep better with a 33lb Rocna or Manson. I have a 36lb Plow, but it is too heavy for me to hand over hand without a bow roller. I guess if I had a bow roller, I think I could lift a 36lb anchor and the Plow would be enough anchor for me.
5. Convenient head. I have a portapotty, which is OK but I try not to use it. Which sort of defeats the purpose of having a head. I am looking at C-Head, which is a composting head with urine separation. I could probably just set up a pail composting head and use a pee bottle as much as possible. Not sure which way to go on this. If it was just me a pail would do, but if I want to civilize the boat to attract a female, a C-Head is probably the way to go.
6. Motor Controls. I have an outboard on a bracket, and a boat with a high freeboard. In order to start the motor, I have to get down on my knees in the cockpit and reach over the transom to set the choke and pull the cord. It is a pain to reach down to adjust the throttle or shift. I have added pvc pipe extensions for the throttle and shifter, so I can adjust them from the top of the transom. But I would like motor controls where I could adjust the motor while still watching traffic ahead of me. At least I would like to adjust the throttle and shift. I don't care so much about starting the motor remotely, although sometimes in heavy waves it is a pain to lean over the transom and reach down to the motor. I am afraid I will lose my glasses, balance or hat.
So my list of things I need to avoid misery:
Bimini
Slippers
Pillows
Bow Roller
C-Head
Motor Controls
When you have two people onboard you find your elimination-of-misery requirements grow exponentially, and may conflict. For example, one person's hot shower is another person's afternoon lost spent fixing the pressure water pump. One person's beloved tiller is another person's shin smasher. Etc. For me it comes down to some very basic things that have not been mentioned: A boat that sails like a witch so I can go anywhere, anytime, in any weather. A very large and comfortable navigation station down below that also serves as my office, repair station for small stuff, and general work space. Comfortable sea berths that hold you in place, are near the center of motion on the boat, are parallel to the fore and aft axis, allow you to lie down with your head forward, are somewhat out of the traffic flow, and have some decent ventilation. A boat with very low external maintenance--no teak, no fiddly wood decoration, no intricate painting or designs that require careful work, a bottom that is easy to get at and can be painted in a few hours, etc. As shallow draft as possible. An air draft of under 60 feet, but preferably under 50 feet. Ventilation that works even when sailing offshore. A safe and easy way to carry the dinghy onboard. No integrated anything--I don't want the failure of one piece of electronics to effect any other piece of electronics. A powerful manual anchor windlass (almost unavailable now). I would love but have never had an efficient refrigeration system, so I could live with a well-insulated ice box for when ice is available. Personally, I would be fine without refrigeration, but not my partner. Same with a kero cooker--I'm fine with one, but not the partner.
During the overly long refit of Mathilda - I've settled on trying to keep things as simple as possible and with the least number of breakable parts. I've become quite comfortable with very simple things and I don't want to spend what time I have left repairing/replacing complicated things.
I've done enough of that with houses and cars.
She's a sailboat first, everything else comes after.
Loose footed main, hanked on fore sails
Manual windlass
Single burner kerosene stove
Diesel heater
Ice box
Galley foot pump
Lavac head
Blocks instead of a traveller
Wind vane
The only electronics are a VHF, handheld GPS, depth sounder
A dodger is on the to-do list, but not for awhile
If I don't have to fix things, then the only misery I should have left is my own personal demons, and with enough sailing, maybe they'll be gone too.
Quote from: rorik on March 26, 2014, 11:38:00 AM
If I don't have to fix things, then the only misery I should have left is my own personal demons, and with enough sailing, maybe they'll be gone too.
Amen to that, and grog to you brother! May we one day buddy-boat our complication-free vessels on a complication-free cruise!
There is no such thing as a complication-free boat--just degrees of complication! I met a guy once on a newly launched larger custom boat and the completely integrated "state-of-the-art" electronics were incredibly complicated. It all looked beautifully installed, but an electronics technician had been onboard working fulltime for two weeks trying to get everything to work. I chatted with him one day and he sounded totally perplexed why he couldn't get things to work properly. I later heard that they had cancelled the start that year of their planned 'round-the-world voyage as they were still troubleshooting problems all over the boat.That's the funny thing about boats-- the more you spend and the higher-end you get the more complications you have.
Quote from: Kettlewell on March 27, 2014, 08:02:54 AM
.That's the funny thing about boats-- the more you spend and the higher-end you get the more complications you have.
I couldn't agree more! I spend an inordinate amount of time fantasizing about my dream boat, and it is always the ultimate in simplicity - basically the seagoing version of a hermits cabin with no systems, no through hulls, no wiring, no built ins, etc. Kero lamps (including nav lights), an authentic shipmate woodstove, composting head, dry bilge for cool storage - i could go on and on....of course the advantage to having very few things is what you do have you can invest in the best quality. In my case the luxurious splurges would be in a cabinetmaker grade finish and really great cushions/mattresses.
I ha e often thought the best KISS concession to technology would be to limit the electrics to basic handhelds, and have one unobtrusive solar panel charging the very best gel cell deep cycle battery available, whose sole purpose is to power a recharging station.
Of course all of the above is strictly long term dreaming. In the short term i have requested this years birthday gift be a sextant.
Quote from: DarrenC on March 27, 2014, 09:07:43 AM
Kero lamps (including nav lights),... one unobtrusive solar panel charging the very best gel cell deep cycle battery available, whose sole purpose is to power a recharging station.
I used to be really enamored of the idea of kero lamps, including for nav lights. I have an oil lamp that I have used as an anchor light when lashed to the forestay.
However, the availability of reliable LED's changed that game for me. Yes, it's a concession to technology.
Since we are talking about "reduction of misery," LED's bring a LOT to that table. No lamp fuel, no filling (and spilling), no smoke or smell (if using kero in the cabin), etc. Lin and Larry used to use kero navigation lights, and I remember reading they had to carry MULTIPLE sets of spare glass because breakage was common at sea.
If one was going to have a truly "non-electric" boat, LED's are a harder sell. But, if you are going to have a solar panel and battery for other things anyway, I sure think LED's reduce a lot of misery that oil brings.
Personal choices, of course...
Excellent point. LEDs truly are the more practical choice
Maybe the middle ground would be to still eliminate the wiring, but have self contained LED lamps with their own batteries which can be re charged as necessary.
It's nice to have a kero lamp or two for night watch illumination, for the occasional cozy dinner below when it is chilly, etc., but electrics are much more practical for most situations, including running lights. For one thing a masthead tricolor is the best offshore sailing light. A couple of problems with kero are they heat the cabin up, and in the tropics you don't want any extra heat, they are potentially smelly and they do degrade air quality even if not smelly, the fuel is messy and difficult to handle, and when they spill the mess is hard to clean up. I personally don't like the idea of burning hydrocarbons down below more than necessary. A few LED lights connected by wiring to a simple electrical system may even be less complication than the kero, wicks, globes, matches or lighters, needed to keep lamps working, and I always have numerous LED flashlights around if something fails. Chances are most of us will want some electricity to run some basic electronics, and once you have that and the solar panel or two to keep things charged up the lights don't add much. I do think LED lights fit the "Elimination of Misery Principal."
Quote from: DarrenC on March 27, 2014, 09:07:43 AM
Quote from: Kettlewell on March 27, 2014, 08:02:54 AM
.That's the funny thing about boats-- the more you spend and the higher-end you get the more complications you have.
I couldn't agree more! I spend an inordinate amount of time fantasizing about my dream boat, and it is always the ultimate in simplicity - basically the seagoing version of a hermits cabin with no systems, no through hulls, no wiring, no built ins, etc. Kero lamps (including nav lights), an authentic shipmate woodstove, composting head, dry bilge for cool storage - i could go on and on....of course the advantage to having very few things is what you do have you can invest in the best quality. In my case the luxurious splurges would be in a cabinetmaker grade finish and really great cushions/mattresses.
I ha e often thought the best KISS concession to technology would be to limit the electrics to basic handhelds, and have one unobtrusive solar panel charging the very best gel cell deep cycle battery available, whose sole purpose is to power a recharging station.
Of course all of the above is strictly long term dreaming. In the short term i have requested this years birthday gift be a sextant.
You are discussing Tehani ;)
No through hulls at all- sink lifts out and dumps overboard. Foot pump for water
Composting heads are too tall to fit, so I have an MSD, rigged for pump out
One solar panel feeding one battery.
Hand held GPS, although she does have a fishfinder and installed VHF.
However- I have LED fixtures for interior lighting, and am working to replace the running lights with LED's also
Used to use a kerosene anchor light on Tehani.. PITA!! Now I have an LED Anchor light and am delighted with it. Unfortunately the BEBI Company is defunct, but the folks who are replacing them post on here. Good deal
Picture was at anchor, Barataria La
Quote from: DarrenC on March 27, 2014, 09:36:20 AM
Excellent point. LEDs truly are the more practical choice
Maybe the middle ground would be to still eliminate the wiring, but have self contained LED lamps with their own batteries which can be re charged as necessary.
That's an idea that can work for cabin lighting (we did it for a while), but I doubt it will be practical for navigation lights.
In my opinion, "wiring" is not a problem. It's the connections that fail. If you use high quality marine grade wiring and over sized conductors (yes, it costs more, but...), I seriously doubt you will see many failures in the run of the wiring.
That is, if reliability is the main concern...if there's another reason to not want wires, that does not matter so much. ;D
Quote from: DarrenC on March 14, 2014, 10:54:28 AM
She's currently pleased with the amenities level of the boat, although she often admires and asks questions about larger craft and their 'goodies', and I'm certain that she's going to require much more if she is ever going to consider a boat as her one and only home.
My XO is quite happy with low amenities. But living aboard can bring some surprises.
We see a lot of folks mentioning "Shower." The lack of shower on our boat was not really ever a problem for us. What got to her, after months / years living aboard, was the lack of a regular sized, soak-for-hours-in-steaming-hot bath tub.
And, quite frankly, I don't want the boat big enough to hold and supply one of those.
So, we made other compromises.
Here's one thing I learned while living KISSey in a small boat. The boat does not have to BE EVERYTHING. We had a motto..."Get off the boat." We love our boat, and look forward to moving back aboard. But...the
boat is not a house. It's not meant to be a house.
How did we solve the bath tub problem? A night or two every couple of months at a motel, family visits, house sitting for a friend, etc.
The bigger lesson is that one HAS to become creative at solving these kinds of problems. The "house way" is to think inside the box...literally...that the "box" (boat home) has to be-all, end-all to every whim and desire. That, in my opinion, is the kind of thinking that dooms dreams to failure.
Personal space / privacy is an issue on small boats, and this has been the plight of the seaman since man figured out he could build things that float. The 'modern' answer is to...make the boat solve the problem, but making it big enough for each crew member to have 'their time.'
But, as I say, there are other ways to solve that issue. If you are with people you care about, how much time REALLY is desired to be spent "alone." Personally, I get "alone" time by reading, so it is not a physical alone. We also get it by ... GETTING OFF THE BOAT ... and each having time to do their own thing.
Finally, there will be things you and/or your wife don't like about living small and KISS aboard. There is no way we can predict every nuance. But, the key, in my opinion, is to get really creative in how those issues are solved and not to latch onto the first, most obvious POSSIBLE solution - a bigger boat, or the second - move back ashore.
My two cents and food for thought, etc, etc.
I no longer have to be concerned with concessions and I am a bit sad about that though it is liberating. Fortunately I enjoy the solitude and more "sport" in my sailing than my ex partner wanted so downsizing from a comfortable heavy displacement traditional boat and simplifying seemed the way to go.
No toilet thank you...a solution that has worked for me is a bucket with cornstarch Eco Bags along with ash from the wood burning stove or kitty litter. When off shore everything goes over, closer in the bags work well.
A small woodburner or diesel stove for dry heat...had a Shipmate on my old boat. Will have to be something smaller now.
LEDs with oil burners for back . My anchor light is an old lamp hoisted on a penant
Portable GPSs and a sextant...tamaya venus
Good ground tackle...plenty of chain, Delta, Northill. Not going over the mid twenties for weight except for an emergency hook stowed below. I hated anchoring the larger boat...I suppose an electric windlass would have fixed that but too complicated.
Have to have a sink that drains, an ice box, a gimballed sea swing ad a fixed butane propane hotel stove. Badger has a nice built in galley with plenty of stowage.
Headroom is not been a big deal as long as I can easily get my pants on. I'm 6'2" and Badger has 5'9" headroom. I will be adding a Lucite bubble in the hatch that I can stand in. Rigging an inside steering system off the tiller will be easy.
Crash bulkheads...so easy to rig on this boat.
Auto tiller and vane.
Simple and close to nature now. Will see what lessons come with more offshore sailing
I'm at:
- Almost no thru-hulls (all in boat are plugged and will be glassed over next haulout), though I do have 3 really nice new bronze fittings if I decide to. If I do, I think I would limit it to just 1 for raw water at the sink; drain would go overboard above waterline.I like the low mental overhead of knowing that only water from the sky can get into my boat.
- The interior layout I've come up with handles 2 fairly well; it's why I took so long finding what would work this way - plenty of space to be apart when below with little 'need-ya-to-move' conflict, taking in to consideration how it will work when underway. The Ariel has standing room for me, so I find it extremely comfortable.
- Engel fridge/freezer is a recognized luxury that is so useful to me that I consider it an 'almost must-have'. That little promise of a cold drink no matter what else can allow me to put up with a whole lot of guff.
- Bimini - shade - a definite. As is a dodger (yet to be created/installed). Both allow you to remain more comfortable at the helm and thus alert for longer.
- Eventually a wind vane, and I think an electronic pilot to hook to that if I find myself plying waters where the vane doesn't work (ie motoring).
- TBD ;)
Chris - sorry about your partner, I hope 'the sad' fades fast.
Thanks K. The sad part is that I will be sailing solo. The big compromise arrived at was actually that she would stay ashore and I would solo long trips. On the larger boat I installed a home sized toilet, a comfortable full shower and hot pressure water to accommodate my friend who after all was not into long trips. I jumped too quickly doing these things hoping it would create a better situation for her. My advice to anyone in a similar situation would be to manage compromise more slowly and realistically.
The idea of "Reduction of Misery" has come up previously in excellent threads. I'm glad to see it have a thread of its own.
Here's one of the old ones:
http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=3232.msg35430#msg35430
That whole thread is worth a look; a lot of good discussion and back-n-forth there.
Quote from: Captain Smollett on May 23, 2014, 01:14:57 PM
The idea of "Reduction of Misery" has come up previously in excellent threads. I'm glad to see it have a thread of its own.
Here's one of the old ones:
http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=3232.msg35430#msg35430
That whole thread is worth a look; a lot of good discussion and back-n-forth there.
Wow- some names on that thread I no longer see around. Was a good thread. Dredged up a bunch of memories