sailFar.net

A new entry in possibilities - the "fit-PC" (http://"http://www.fit-pc.com/index.htm").

Very small - smaller than a paperback. Kind of light on raw computing power (500mHz CPU, 256M RAM) compared to most modern common systems, but *very* light on power consumption (only 5 watts), and since it's a fanless design - there's no noise.

Quotefit-PC Specifications
   w       AMD Geode LX800 CPU @ 500 MHz
   w       256 MB DDR (non expandable)
   w       40 GB Hard disk, 2.5" 44-pin IDE interface
   w       Dual 100 Mbps Ethernet
   w       SXGA graphics controller, from 640x480 up to 1920x1440
   w       Two USB 2.0 high speed ports
   w       Speaker and microphone interface
   w       RS-232 serial port via RJ11 connector
   w       Single 5V supply, 3-5 watt, fanless operation
   w       Size: 120 x 116 x 40 mm, 450 gram
   w       All aluminum case, black anodized finish. Splash and dust resistant
   w       Operating temperature - 0-70oC
   w       Gentoo Linux preloaded, kernel 2.6.20.
Windows XP easily installable using USB CD-ROM drive

Cost is US$285 at pre-order prices.

Would be fun to play with. :)

However, even with this computer onboard, I doubt Frank could successfully upload pics to the site...  ;D ;D ;D

Given the relatively low demands of most navigation software, I don't see why that machine wouldn't make a pretty decent boat computer. You'd probably want a good DC-to-DC power supply.  I'd also recommend getting a good LCD panel for use as a monitor.   Instead of XP, I'd go with W2K, as it tends to need less resources than XP and is a bit less bloated. 

Do you know if the board and components are conformally coated??

Also, you'd probably want more RAM, going up to 1GB is probably a good idea. A larger HDD might also be a good idea.

As for Frank, I think he needs to get a Mac Mini. :D

Quote from: AdriftAtSea on October 15, 2007, 02:13:10 PM

Instead of XP, I'd go with W2K, as it tends to need less resources than XP and is a bit less bloated. 

Bite your tongue.  Winders....ick.   ::)

;D ;D

LOL... Unfortunately, there isn't much in the way of Navigation software for Linux and not a whole lot more for Macintosh.  And the Mac OS, even though it is now available in an Intel-based variant, wouldn't run on a generic hardware platform.

BTW, I'm not a big fan of Microsoft either...but W2K is better than either XP or Vista.  Vista is still effectively beta software for all intents and purposes.  Most of my work is done on one of three Macs... :D  Right now I'm using a MacBook Pro. :D

That little black box does seem like an idea. BUt, how on earth can you make it work with winXP and 256MB RAM
??? ??? ??? (must admit to being strongly biased to Mac myself, even though I've got to PC' and just one Mac at present.

Quote from: AdriftAtSea on October 15, 2007, 03:55:20 PM
LOL... Unfortunately, there isn't much in the way of Navigation software for Linux

I run both Chart Navigator and SeaClear just fine under wine.  No problems, mon.   ;)

One problem I see with the box is that it only has 256MB, and it can't be expanded.

Quote from: AdriftAtSea on October 15, 2007, 05:07:38 PM
One problem I see with the box is that it only has 256MB, and it can't be expanded.

Why is that a problem?  I run Linux on a VERY old laptop with 64 MB RAM and a 400 MHz processor, and that's with KDE as my 'desktop environment,' so it's not even what I would call a super lightweight installation of Linux.

Ditch Windows, install a real OS and enjoy the tool for what it is - a low cost Internet browser/email terminal/word processor.  Really, this is not a gaming box or anything, and for what most folks would use it for on a boat, 256 MB RAM should be more than plenty unless the OS is hogging all the system resources.

Sounds like it would run anything I would be interested in running.  I am surprised at the price though, something 'purpose built' for the marine environment I would expect to be higher.

  For the money it could be a good platform to experiment with.... man if only the sold state memory (harddrive) would be released.... now that would be a package.
(or is this using one already?  With 5w consumption it must be a thrifty hard drive.)

CS-

Hate to break it to you, I haven't used a Windows-based system in many years, aside from when I'm forced to work with them for the work I do.  Even then, I'm often remoting into the Windows servers using my MacBook, instead of working on a Windows box directly.  :D

For the software suite I normally have running, which often includes Final Cut Pro, I do need to have a fair bit of RAM.  My MacBook Pro has 2GB of RAM and 250GB of HD space. Video editing takes a fair bit of both.

Quote from: Captain Smollett on October 15, 2007, 06:21:38 PMWhy is that a problem?  I run Linux on a VERY old laptop with 64 MB RAM and a 400 MHz processor, and that's with KDE as my 'desktop environment,' so it's not even what I would call a super lightweight installation of Linux.

Ditch Windows, install a real OS and enjoy the tool for what it is - a low cost Internet browser/email terminal/word processor.  Really, this is not a gaming box or anything, and for what most folks would use it for on a boat, 256 MB RAM should be more than plenty unless the OS is hogging all the system resources.

Quote from: AdriftAtSea on October 15, 2007, 07:44:43 PM

For the software suite I normally have running, which often includes Final Cut Pro, I do need to have a fair bit of RAM.  My MacBook Pro has 2GB of RAM and 250GB of HD space. Video editing takes a fair bit of both.

You need that on your boat??

Sure, I've got a cluster comprised of Athlon 4200+ dual cores with 2 GB ram PER NODE, but I ain't carrying that on my boat.  No need. 

"Tool for the job" is all I'm saying.

Another bargain - a laptop, for only $421 (including tax) from WalMart.

Nothing special, not quite the hardware as those nerds ^^up there^^ have ;D, but I thought I'd pass the word on to you sailFarers...

1.86G CPU, 512M RAM, 80G hard drive, CD-RW/DVD. It's an Acer Aspire 3680. I shopped *hard*, 'cause 4 boat bux is a lot of money to me, and this laptop is hands-down the best regular deal out there right now. I don't know how long they'll be around, though - it might be kind of a close-out thing.

The laptop comes with Vista Home Basic on it (yuk), so you'll need to add another 512M of RAM (preferably, the exact same kind - Samsung - so that it can be used in "dual channel" mode, which helps speed things up). With the 512M RAM that comes with it, Vista runs kind of slow. It would probably work great running XP.

That said, what I actually use on it is Mepis Linux version 6.5.02, and it flies. Mepis detected all the hardware wonderfully, wireless etc worked right out of the box. I can even run the 3D desktop (the Windows version won't allow itself to be run on this hardware).

So if any of you are looking for a good deal on a new computer, and have been wanting a laptop, this one gets 2-thumbs-up from me. :)

Ram?pro?GB? HD space?(sounds like a garage for a Harley) ....Divinci...what is the code???

Usually, I just use a 12" PB on-board...but some weeks I have to do more wor than it can handle. :D

Quote from: Captain Smollett on October 15, 2007, 08:24:52 PM

Quote from: AdriftAtSea on October 15, 2007, 07:44:43 PM

For the software suite I normally have running, which often includes Final Cut Pro, I do need to have a fair bit of RAM.  My MacBook Pro has 2GB of RAM and 250GB of HD space. Video editing takes a fair bit of both.

You need that on your boat??

Sure, I've got a cluster comprised of Athlon 4200+ dual cores with 2 GB ram PER NODE, but I ain't carrying that on my boat.  No need. 

"Tool for the job" is all I'm saying.

Consider that once you add a monitor, keyboard and mouse you have effectively increased the size to that of a laptop and it still will require an A/C source or inverter to operate and it will not be as portable as a laptop would be if you want to take it ashore to an Internet cafe, for example.

Also consider software availability, if running other then a Windows variant OS.  It can be done, but what do you want to accomplish?  Do you want to mess about with computers or do you want a tool to help navigate your boat.

This system looks like a nice Windows 95 setup.  With a 500Mhz processor, 256M of RAM and a 40G HD it will probably boot XP, but that's about it.  I tired it on a similar system and immediately replaced XP with Linux.  It would run Linux, but then you are back to the software availability issue.  Also keep in mind that XP can easily grow to around 10G, leaving you only 30 for everything else (Win2K would be a better option on this system for sure). 

Finally I would think you'd wind up having some issues with the video running any chart plotter type of software.  When I first saw this system I was thinking it would make a great MythTV box (MythTV is a Linux based system similar to a TiVo or ReplayTV system), but it looks like the video is on the mobo so you couldn't add the appropriate video card. 

Sailing Magazine just ran an article on a fairly large gamut of nav software.   They listed two pieces for the Mac that sounded fairly complete.   It may be worth browsing. 

TrT

Quote from: Joe Pyrat on October 16, 2007, 02:57:54 PM

Also consider software availability, if running other then a Windows variant OS.  It can be done, but what do you want to accomplish?  Do you want to mess about with computers or do you want a tool to help navigate your boat.

I'm sorry to belabor the point, here, but you are setting up a false dichotomy.  I am telling you that I use navigation/charting software on my Linux computer ALL THE TIME, and it took NO EFFORT to get it to work:  Loaded the software on my computer, clicked the icon, and it worked.

Is Windows any easier than that?  How can it be?

The fit-PC itself can be run directly off of DC current, and there are monitors that can do so as well, you'd just have to hunt for them.

Most of these computer thingamajigs actually use DC, and the power brick is simply an inverter that sits between them and the wall socket (I bet you know that already...). You can look on the power brick and see just what kind of current it's providing, at what rate, and the polarity of the connection to your appliance. Find one that outputs 12V, and you can splice a plug onto it, or wire it directly in.

I've done that with a few things that were AC powered - most notable, some PC speakers, so I can set them out in the cockpit for music/movies under the stars. :)

Me - I'd use a fixed system for 'net connection when possible, MP3 jukebox, nav software chart repository/library***, and to watch movies from disc maybe. Typical other usage might include some light photo editing, journaling, that sort of thing - nothing too heavy.

Most likely, it's primary usage would be to store and play music.

SeaClear II runs just fine under Linux using Wine - try it. It's free, a 2M'ish download, and can use free BSB charts. Runs well.

John has experience using that and another nav software.

Win2K (or even 98SE) would be a better OS than XP for the fit-PC, I agree. But since you can't buy it anymore (from MS that is), most people might have trouble finding it, I dunno. That's why I initially mentioned XP - plus the fit-PC site says XP, too :)

---------

***I much prefer paper charts to nav by, but it'd be nice to store charts digitally, and print them at will - they'd take up less room that way. It's just an idea/possibility at this point.

PS - Fixed 'puter vs. Laptop:

Could this be the 21st century equivalent of the Inboard vs Outboard debate? :D

I've used several of the recent Linux variants, and none are quite ready for prime time.  They still take a bit more to get running than Windows does, and IMHO, most people are going to have some trouble with getting WINE and SeaClear up and running.   Granted, they're a lot better than they used to be... but still, like Microsoft Windows Vista, are basically beta-ware.

Quote from: Captain Smollett on October 16, 2007, 04:14:08 PMI'm sorry to belabor the point, here, but you are setting up a false dichotomy.  I am telling you that I use navigation/charting software on my Linux computer ALL THE TIME, and it took NO EFFORT to get it to work:  Loaded the software on my computer, clicked the icon, and it worked.

Is Windows any easier than that?  How can it be?

Quote from: AdriftAtSea on October 16, 2007, 06:49:36 PM

I've used several of the recent Linux variants, and none are quite ready for prime time.  They still take a bit more to get running than Windows does, and IMHO, most people are going to have some trouble with getting WINE and SeaClear up and running.   Granted, they're a lot better than they used to be... but still, like Microsoft Windows Vista, are basically beta-ware.

Sorry, but you must not have tried Linux within the past 5 years or you are not using the right Distro's.

Installation of Mandrake/Mandriva is about 5x EASIER than Windows (the OS itself); wine is installed automatically by the installation package manager with the OS (or is a one-click install if you don't install with the OS), and it was

GET THIS NOW

NO EFFORT WHATSOEVER to get either SeaClear OR Chart Navigator (both free downloads) to work.  Both work with BSB raster charts and both interface with GPS via NMEA if that's your bag.

This "not ready for prime time" is FUD and has not been true for years.  In addition to Mandrake/Mandriva, I've also installed and used the Fedora Core series, Mepis, Debian, Knoppix and have seen Ubuntu in action.  All work out of the box, and all have better/easier installation procedures than modern WIndows (XP and Vista, even 2000 imo).

Not ready for prime time, forsooth.

To each his own, though.  If YOU don't like Linux for whatever reason, that's your business.  But don't make the claim that there is anything lacking with the OS OR with getting nav software to run on it.  My real world experience  says otherwise.  In addition, a large contingent of the folks over on Renegade Cruisers use Linux as well, and I don't see any of them complaining about having to work extraordinarily hard to get their boat related software to run.

All from me on this subject.  I've said my peace.  If anyone wants to run Linux, go for it.  It works.  Don't listen to naysayers.

I've used Suse.  Excellent.
I've used Mandrake/Mandriva.  Also excellent.
I've used Knoppix and other live cd's. 

Frankly, I cringe whenever I'm forced to use Windows (just on my work PC, currently.  I no longer have to support Windows boxes, happily :) )
There are two problems I've run across that required extra effort.  Getting one of my wireless network cards to work (a Microsoft card, oddly enough); and getting dual displays setup the way I wanted.  The NIC was a pain, although I'm told newer distros are taking care of the wrapper nonsense.  The dual displays DID work; but I'm picky about the way my pc gets set up.  I doubt most people would be effected by either problem.

Beta-ware?  No more so than ANY of the Windows variants.

The proof?  My wife uses my Linux box without thinking about it.  I'm not even sure she realizes it ISN'T Windows.

I saved a small fortune on software, too.

Linux is ready for prime time.  It's just a matter of breaking the Windows inertia.

(oh, if there is one place that software lacks, it is in the high end gaming.  Since I mostly use my PC as a tool, not a game console, I rarely notice).

Quote from: Captain Smollett on October 16, 2007, 04:14:08 PM

Quote from: Joe Pyrat on October 16, 2007, 02:57:54 PM

Also consider software availability, if running other then a Windows variant OS.  It can be done, but what do you want to accomplish?  Do you want to mess about with computers or do you want a tool to help navigate your boat.

I'm sorry to belabor the point, here, but you are setting up a false dichotomy.  I am telling you that I use navigation/charting software on my Linux computer ALL THE TIME, and it took NO EFFORT to get it to work:  Loaded the software on my computer, clicked the icon, and it worked.

Is Windows any easier than that?  How can it be?

I think you missed my point.  A quick Google of Windows based marine nav software came up with something like 25 different companies making close to 40 different Windows based applications.  What I was saying is that your software options are more limited when you start looking at the number of non-Windows products available simply because Microsoft has such a large chunk of the market.

Threads like this attract people interested in computers and thus a higher percentage of Linux users than one would find in a national average of computer users.  I'm sure you had no problems setting up your Linux OS as well as your Linux based nav software, but the average computer user will need to not only learn how to operate his or her navigation package but will also need to learn how to operate Linux.

Interesting thread. I am not a computer wizard or freak of any kind. Guess the correct label on me would be 'just above average user'

I have owned and run Mac's for twenty years, mostly because I have got a couple of friends who are sort of wizards on them-

Anyway; a year ago I purchased a laptop with Win XP to run my nav programs. I hae got two separate systems/programs installed with chart for the entire planet on both.

Tsunami and CmapECS

Would any of those run on LInux?

I like LInux since I always tend to favor the underdog, esp. if being non-commercial versus 'BigMAmmon' alias Microsoft  ;)

The company is out of stock until Dec and is in the middle east. Not sure if the price is in US Dollars and includes shipping.

A little small screen for me to use. The voltage is 5v. No pics on site. May be the PC of the future.

maxiSwede,

You can run a Windows emulator on Linux like WineHQ (http://www.winehq.org/) which will allow you to run your Windows nav programs on a Linux box.  SeaClear's website, mentioned by Captain Smollett, is actually a Windows based program, but on their website they state that it has been successfully run on Linux using WineHQ.  However, be aware, emulators usually induce their own set of issues so you would probably be more satisfied either running your Windows based software on Windows or finding a package designed specifically for Linux.

Quote from: Joe Pyrat on October 18, 2007, 07:43:50 AM
maxiSwede,

You can run a Windows emulator on Linux like WineHQ (http://www.winehq.org/) which will allow you to run your Windows nav programs on a Linux box.  SeaClear's website, mentioned by Captain Smollett, is actually a Windows based program, but on their website they state that it has been successfully run on Linux using WineHQ.  However, be aware, emulators usually induce their own set of issues so you would probably be more satisfied either running your Windows based software on Windows or finding a package designed specifically for Linux.

Joe Pyrat-

Thanks a lot for the info. Seems useful and I will try it out on my semi-antique Thinkpad for starters...

LOL, my Linux machine is a Thinkpad too.

Good on ya'

;D

found the perfect computer for most of you folks, and at a decent price too!

http://www.thebookpc.com/product_info.php/cPath/68_33/products_id/431 (http://www.thebookpc.com/product_info.php/cPath/68_33/products_id/431)

Would work just fine for most everything we would need it for!

And you could water proof it with a zip lock sandwich baggie!  ;D

The only thing I'd highly recommend doing with that unit is upping the RAM to say at least 1 GB if at all possible. Not  a bad little machine.  The real problem is getting a decent screen to use with it.

Well, yea the ram is hard wired in. Also on the site they have a few small screens. While not great for some of the "saltier" old salts we have, it still isn't a bad little set up. Also if you wanted to use it with a usb wireless mouse/keyboard, you could find a way to mount a monitor/tv on a bulkhead and run it to the box. All hidden and nice.

Im thinking of getting one just to see how it works.

I'm NOT the guy to recomend anything to do with computers...but this is my boat/travel unit in the picture. A Fujitsu P1510....the size of a book..easy to carry to the cafe for wireless and put in a ziplock in the dingy.

I considered something like this, but when you add the display, keyboard, external CD/DVD drive, you are taking up almost, if not as much space as a laptop would and you have fewer options, WRT memory upgrades.  The major advantage would be no inverter assuming you didn't need one for the external drive.  Still it would be interesting to play with.  My inner geek thinks it would be fun to setup as a server running Linux so I would have my own client/server LAN onboard.  :)

Edit...  Hm, 5 or six of these setup as a Linux cluster...   ;D 

Sorry, I sometime have these geek attacks...   ::)

I've been thinking the new breed of sub notebooks or "netbooks" have a lot of promise.  Most of them are running Linux, but some are Windows XP compatible (512mb is fine for XP).  I, personally, prefer linux; but I'm not certain if all the software that the techie sailor would desire is available for linux.  I think all the major players have something out now.

The ASUS Eee PC (http://www.amazon.com/Eee-PC-900-8-9-Inch-Processor/dp/B00191PKJK/ref=tag_tdp_sv_edpp_i) (several flavors: big screens, small screens, solid state memory and hard drive) are fairly popular I understand.  Others look good, too.

(Probably not the best choice for the power users out there ... I suspect video editing would be less than stellar, for instance)

As the proud owner (kinda) of an Asus EEEPC I can recommend the pocket notebooks for anyone who knows what they are doing or can take a trial run of their exact unit prior to purchase.  I've got a 16g model, it is quite sufficient for general use, wastes a bit of time hiccuping when you ask too much of it at once.  (Music, 12 tabs open in a browser, and serious photo manipulation going on.  Gets slow.  Here's the thing.  No CD/DVD drive.  Not too big of a deal, except it's a biscuit trying to make a bootable thumb drive that'll work with this silly system.  I've been trying to get rid of the warped Xandros distro (Asus altered it a bit so it could be more proprietary) and have failed miserably.  I can usually find my way around or through a system, but this one is so *$&% that I find myself going back to my old irritating monster laptop just to avoid the distro.   On the other hand, Dell and HP(hiss) now have similar pocket notebooks so the market is growing and perhaps you'll find one with a better distro on it.  (You have to wonder when they send CD recovery discs to accompany a computer that has no drive!)  It's amazing how convenient it is to drag everywhere when the laptop is smaller than half my books!  :-) 

I know this: Hardware is getting better, smaller, faster all the time. What we see now on the shelves was just a gleam in an engineers (or fellow geeks ;) ) eyes maybe 2 years ago. I have no idea what it will be like in 3 years, so I am sure not making any decisions now. :)

The little 12V systems are way cool. Although in total they may be the size of a laptop, it would be nice to have the keyboard and monitor being 2 separate pieces, at least on my little nav station/diner. Having the screen be able to fold away flat against the cabinet (above a nook that fits the keyboard), but when the screen was folded out it would be able to tilt and rotate would be very cool, and open up valuable, easy-and-quick-access tabletop real estate.

That said, just a few years from now? How about a waterproof, wireless, 1/4" thick, bendable foldable rollable screen that goes for several hours on a 2-4 rechargeable AA's? *Good* speech recognition, instead of typing? Systems so small that you could carry them in your pocket, which draw 1/4 the current of todays systems, and have no moving parts? Small but fast hardware to connect to satellite internet servers? All of these are in active development and have been prototyped (with the possible exception of the 'good' speech recognition - I haven't played with that much). WHo knows what's just around the corner...  8)

And I am continually surprised at how often now I see the word "Linux" in computer related posts, especially on what are essentially non-geek websites. :D

CapnK-

Won't be too long from now, especially if the OLED tech comes along as well as they hope.

So a co-worker purchased one of these last week. We have been doing some testing here in the office, and its down to 4 watts of power with the wifi turned off  ;D

This is starting to look like my new onbard computer solution. It should handle the eletronic side of my logs, maint schedule/prices/etc, charts.

I think I might pull the trigger on one in January, since my move aboard date is March. When I get mine, ill give pictures, and be sure to write up a review.

Nowell, is that with keyboard video and mouse?  I'd be interested in a power consumption breakdown showing the system plus the delta on each component including external drives.  At the power levels you are seeing I'd be really interested in one of these, especially if it includes KVM.

  Not to confuse the issue........but, are you aware that 12V power supplies are available for desktop PCs ?
I'm thinking build your own in a baby tower case. (if you've got any room at all) You could have all the bells &
whistles your batteries can stand. But you ain't taking it for a ride to find wifi.
  You'll have to google up a source

Danny

Quote from: Joe Pyrat on December 08, 2008, 09:12:59 AM
Nowell, is that with keyboard video and mouse?  I'd be interested in a power consumption breakdown showing the system plus the delta on each component including external drives.  At the power levels you are seeing I'd be really interested in one of these, especially if it includes KVM.

When I get mine, ill be happy to run all the tests for you. The one we played with here in the office was just off the overall current draw in server mode (ie no peripherals). When I get mine, ill be sure to do component test and everything. Right now im considering a small 7.5" TFT style display, which in the overall scheme will probably be the largest power draw. Im still tossing around the idea of a small TV/Monitor combo.

This would be clearly for data entry/storage in my case, and not a replacement for one of my many laptops while in port.

Admittedly, I am no fan of laptops in the cockpit underway... actually I am no fan of computer navigation at all.

(High power use, low resistance to moisture, unreliable, and even if it works it serves to dull ones ability to navigate, and rely on the box to think for you...)

  However, WRT installed computer systems... what about the times you want to take the computer ashore to use a wifi hot spot (that is not accessible from the water) or an internet cafe where you connect via a cable.. ?

  Just something to consider.    

I'm basicalyy computer illiterate, but I cruise ebay quit a bit and there is a program (dvd) for 16.95 that you can put into your lapptop and can be used as a chartplotter if you have gps hooked up to it, I have a alptop that will be going on my boat, powered through an inverter.  But ot hook up all these systems what do I need to do?  I'm hearing stories of being able to navigat from inside the cabin if needed.  Would be kinda neat to look at a screen  just to see where you are in the world or some lake.  But how do I do all this?

Marc-

If you have a windows-based PC, there is free software that you can use with BSB-format, raster charts available from the NOAA website.  The US charts are free, as is the software.

Speaking in my case, this is not a replacement to a laptop. This would be a ship based system that would keep log entries, positions, maint schedules, prices, etc. One of my laptops would be for internet cafes, DVD's while in port, forum surfing, etc.

This little system, fanless, fairly tight casing, small, small power draw, is PERFECT for keeping that sort of information. How many times have you read about people that have lost a laptop with no backup, no, spare, etc. Lets be honest, laptops are pricy tools, and how many of use are walking around with multiples.

I put this up as a cheap, affordable backup that fits with the small boat.

Quote from: CapnK on December 05, 2008, 11:50:26 PM
And I am continually surprised at how often now I see the word "Linux" in computer related posts, especially on what are essentially non-geek websites. :D

I was surprised for a few seconds while reading this thread, but it makes perfect sense that the sailfar mentality of most folks would not have began or ended with sailing :)

I'm a recovering geek... I switched to OSX a few years ago, after countless years of server farming in teh basement  8)

As for onboard computing goes... I think what Faith said about taking your computer off the boat is pretty darn important. Although this type of system would make a good (cheaper) replacement to the $1000+ chartplotters, I just don't think it would be as handy as a laptop (or anything portable) for travel.

My own plan is to just have a laptop, and spend a few extra bucks on a nice padded, aluminum, briefcase type of thing to serve as a faraday cage and provide water-tightness when not in use.
I would prefer to conserve as much energy as possible, but I think the best way to do that would be to just turn it off and go outside :) If I need to do video editing or something of that nature, I just don't think it will be a problem once in a while.

I think $400 would be better spent on something like this waterproof 250gb hard drive (http://www.sentrysafe.com/products/productDetail.aspx?s=284&WT.si_n=ShoppingCart&WT.si_p=CartView).

This is a very cool little PC, I especially like the hardwired ram and of course the small footprint, it would work perfectly in a car or a boat, but I just don't see a need for a built-in unit unless you have a specific purpose to use it for...or unless you're just a geek and have a few extra bucks to play with :D

Quote from: nowell on December 08, 2008, 08:07:07 PM
Speaking in my case, this is not a replacement to a laptop. This would be a ship based system that would keep log entries, positions, maint schedules, prices, etc. One of my laptops would be for internet cafes, DVD's while in port, forum surfing, etc.

This little system, fanless, fairly tight casing, small, small power draw, is PERFECT for keeping that sort of information. How many times have you read about people that have lost a laptop with no backup, no, spare, etc. Lets be honest, laptops are pricy tools, and how many of use are walking around with multiples.

I put this up as a cheap, affordable backup that fits with the small boat.

You read my mind :p
It makes sense when you have a specific use for it.

I would just caution against backing up one piece of electronics with another... Its the data that needs serious backing up.

Dnice I tend to agree with you on this, but I do my routes on my computer then transfer them to the several GPS systems.  This is not a problem, battery-wise, while doing the ICW since you are running the engine all the time and the batteries remain well charged.  My major computer use happens when I take a berth in a marina and can use A/C, but I was thinking this little system might be just the thing once I'm down in the Keys and living on a mooring (slips are way to expensive to consider).  I could surf without the need to pack up the laptop and head in to shore.

I also had a couple (2 laptops aboard) of those Pelican cases but they took up entirely too much room.  The problem with their products was the small ones didn't have room for the power brick and there was nothing in between.  Of course it looks like they came out with the in between size right after I bought the big ones  :-[ so that may be less of an issue now.

This field is changing so fast it makes my head swim...What do you want a computer aboard for?
1. Navigation
2. Electronic paperwork
3. Communication with the rest of the world ( internet!)
Lets assume #2 and easy fix with the right software. If you attach a GPS and with some good software that takes care of #1 (or does it?) That leaves us with #3- wireless connections with our cyberworld.
I have been looking at long range wireless connections (already reviewed in PS, soon to be tested) and Ham radio connections for the internet. Does anyone use these two solutions?

Quote from: newt on December 13, 2008, 08:00:12 PM
This field is changing so fast it makes my head swim...What do you want a computer aboard for?
1. Navigation
2. Electronic paperwork
3. Communication with the rest of the world ( internet!)
Lets assume #2 and easy fix with the right software. If you attach a GPS and with some good software that takes care of #1 (or does it?) That leaves us with #3- wireless connections with our cyberworld.
I have been looking at long range wireless connections (already reviewed in PS, soon to be tested) and Ham radio connections for the internet. Does anyone use these two solutions?

I don't use or have experience with Ham connections...but from what I understand, it is only suitable for email/text. IMHO spending $1000 on a radio and then another $1000 on a modem is not an option just to receive/send email.
Of course, there are plenty of reasons to get an SSB/HAM unit...so maybe the expense of the modem can be justified individually.

For WiFi...you can build your own Yagi antenna (google yagi) that can receive in ranges up to 1-2 miles or so... thats pretty good for any anchorage or marina. There are also plenty of pre-built yagi's on the market. All you need is a good WiFi card with an external antenna option (built in wifi is useless in this case).

The only other option is wireless connection from your cellphone provider, which of course, has monthly fee's and will only work in your coverage area.(IE: not an option!!)

I still can't find a good reason for an onboard computer... I am not trying to be a naysayer or whatever...

I just don't see any reason why a portable computer shouldn't do everything you need/plus more...and can be kept safe when not in use.
The expense of it is the same (for a low end laptop brand new, or any used portable) as an onboard unit. maintenance or whatever will be just the same, and infact cheaper on a laptop that has parts available online or anywhere, as opposed to a proprietary unit.

I can see two benefits to having an onboard computer.
Energy usage...and that is only an issue if you are not equiped for long-term cruising.
Or, A cheaper replacement for a chartreader/plotter/gps unit, which has its own separate set of issues...

I don't mean to be a grump, I just think it falls into the same category of watermakers, icemakers, electronic navigation, autopilots, refridgeration and all that kinda stuff.....So obviously its an individual decision, there are plenty of people here who have those sorts of things on their boat, and I would love to have all of thee above...But if its a simple idea of energy or money, a laptop or other portable device just makes more sense.

Can't find a good reason to have a computer onboard?

I use my onboard computer for plotting my daily moves.  I can download the latest updated charts from NOAA for free so when I started hearing, for example, the entrance to the Alligator River had changed and was confusing I downloaded the latest chart, laid in a route and felt fairly confident I cold make the entrance without any trouble.  It also comes in handy for planning bridge approaches when the bridges only open at certain times or determining when slack tides exist or what the tides are doing at any giver time or date.  Instead of trying to find the nearest tide table I just r-click my position and tell it to open the nearest tides or currents.  This is handy when traversing shallow areas so you can time your passage through the area.  This doesn't even take into consideration all the weather information that I can access or things like Skipper Bob's updates.  I made my boat cards online while sitting on the boat in Beaufort then borrowed the courtesy car and picked them up at Staples.  I can even teleconference with my Spouse.  Then there's the entertainment value, playing DVDs, music, games, etc.   Using MapQuest or a similar service to locate repair facilities, nearby grocery stores, etc.  Looking up repair, troubleshooting info, etc. on my onboard equipment.  This list could go on and on and on.  It just may be the most useful piece of equipment onboard.

Quote from: Joe Pyrat on December 14, 2008, 12:15:05 AM
Can't find a good reason to have a computer onboard?

I use my onboard computer for plotting my daily moves.  I can download the latest updated charts from NOAA for free so when I started hearing, for example, the entrance to the Alligator River had changed and was confusing I downloaded the latest chart, laid in a route and felt fairly confident I cold make the entrance without any trouble.  It also comes in handy for planning bridge approaches when the bridges only open at certain times or determining when slack tides exist or what the tides are doing at any giver time or date.  Instead of trying to find the nearest tide table I just r-click my position and tell it to open the nearest tides or currents.  This is handy when traversing shallow areas so you can time your passage through the area.  This doesn't even take into consideration all the weather information that I can access or things like Skipper Bob's updates.  I made my boat cards online while sitting on the boat in Beaufort then borrowed the courtesy car and picked them up at Staples.  I can even teleconference with my Spouse.  Then there's the entertainment value, playing DVDs, music, games, etc.   Using MapQuest or a similar service to locate repair facilities, nearby grocery stores, etc.  Looking up repair, troubleshooting info, etc. on my onboard equipment.  This list could go on and on and on.  It just may be the most useful piece of equipment onboard.

Joe - I am not questioning the use of a computer on board... Its the built-in, on-board computer that I am having trouble imagining.

All of the things you listed above where done on a portable computer right???

I just don't see the use in hard-wiring a computer system into your boat....

Again, I understand power issues on a small boat... I understand space issues on a small boat...I understand navigation/general usage issues on a small boat.... But if these issues are equally satisfied by a portable computer, then I cannot justify wiring a computer into my boat.
I just do not see these issues being better served by a built-in computer than a portable one. This is obviously my own personal opinion, I do not mean to say anybody is wrong or whatever... I just think there is more to consider here than just whether or not it would 'work'. Of course it would work....

If I am off base here, please let me know.... I know this discussion started about this specific computer, which I would agree is the perfect computer to have aboard...IF you can justify having a computer built-into your boat.

I can see some benefit to a processor mounted somewhere in a secure place and a wireless keyboard which can be moved around to where you need it.  You can drop a wireless keyboard and not worry that the hard drive will quit.

Another thing that makes the built in computer more interesting is if you install a dedicated battery bank and solar panel with enough power so that the processor can always be on. 

Then you can add peripherals like a gps or barometer.  Maybe write a script to write a log of location, pressure, and copy your typed text log for the day, and automatically send it out as an email when the computer finds a wifi connection.

Exactly my thoughts Paul. With something like this, there is no ammount of things you "could" do. You can have the monitor mounted somewhere near your nav station, or on a wall, with this little boxed tucked up somewhere behind the scenes. Wireless mouse/keyboard that are easily replaced if damaged. Access to run your navigation, paperwork, etc etc. You could even have it hooked up to your ham to give the automated updates as you see fit. Without the wireless on it draws very little power. Most of us would use wireless at the marina anyway, where we usually have access to shore power.

Again, what I found attractive is the small form factor, the small power, and the fact that its a fanless, sealed setup. Easily hidable, yet fully featured for what a "typical" cruiser would use it for.

The laptops are great for your movies, around town, whatever. This is not a replacement but a good alternate to a thousand dollar laptop while underway.

I am typing this on a small laptop in a remote location on wireless.  I am sold on laptops...but could we get one that is waterproof and resistant to damage if dropped? What are those Toshibas like?
As for built in- it seems that everything in a sailboat corrodes. Maybe a watertight box with a dehumidifier/airclearer build in.
As for OS- I love Ubuntu- if I can just get a solid wireless program with it.  So far I have stayed with MS so I can wirelessly plug in.
Hey, what about putting that wireless antenna up on the top of the mast? What type of coverage do you get then?

Quote from: newt on December 15, 2008, 10:55:52 AM
Hey, what about putting that wireless antenna up on the top of the mast? What type of coverage do you get then?

Yagi's are directional, you gotta point it towards the signal, so a mast mount wouldn't work too well.
I don't know much about non-directional (omni-directional??) antenna's, but to get the same range as you would from a yagi would make the antenna pretty big and probably not a good option for a mast mount. Yagi's get their great range because the signal is concentrated into a single direction, instead of all that power being lost in a 360' arc.

here is a pretty good link to building your own yagi (http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/448)

I have seen a similarly built one get a full signal from an access point at the local college, which is about a half mile away from here (no idea which building it was in  :)).

One of the simplest and cheapest directional WIFI antennas to build is the Pringles Cantenna... about $10 for all the materials or so.

I was impressed by this product as showcased in "burning man". But I don't have it yet so I don't know how it will work in real life. Practical Sailor has promised us a review.
http://www.5milewifi.com/

Don't believe that device is legal in the US... given that WiFi has a power limit of 200 mW IIRC.

Quote from: dnice on December 14, 2008, 03:41:42 AM
Joe - I am not questioning the use of a computer on board... Its the built-in, on-board computer that I am having trouble imagining.

All of the things you listed above where done on a portable computer right???

I just don't see the use in hard-wiring a computer system into your boat....

Sorry mate, didn't understand. 

I was going to build a system based on a micro ATX type case for KAHOLEE.  The idea being I could use fairly inexpensive parts (video cards, memory, hard drives) to update it or repair it.  The problem was that when I added the mouse, keyboard and mostly the monitor it became a real space consideration.  The nice thing about this little system is it is 12V and very small with very little battery drain, but mostly what got me interested was the 12V display.  Not much sense in having a energy efficient computer if you are having to run an inverter to power the monitor.  On the down side you are not going to be doing any upgrades other then the HD on this unit, but still it is an interesting system and cheap enough that it would be fun to play with.

I would agree, laptops are exceptionally handy, giving you a totally portable system that can be operated, for a while anyway, on its own battery.  Of course there are drawbacks, short battery life, initial expense, etc. but over all they are the way to go if you are only going to have one computer aboard.  Being into computers I've got two laptops and a Play Station Personal (PSP) (more on this in a minute) onboard.  The problem with the laptops is power consumption when running off of my house batteries, 9-12 amps.  This 12V system is a fraction of that and IF it will run my navigation software and store the charts and run my web software it would greatly extend the amount of time I can use it aboard without running the engine, which would be a good thing. 

The PSP has WiFi and a browser.  It works well for limited web surfing and email, has a fairly good battery life, a small current draw when plugged into house batteries and is very small.  I know one guy who carries his around letting it detect wireless networks for later investigation.   ::)

Quote from: newt on December 15, 2008, 10:55:52 AM
I am sold on laptops...but could we get one that is waterproof and resistant to damage if dropped?

Newt, Google Panasonic Toughbook and/or hardened laptop.  Big drawback is expense and they tend to lag in the technology arena.

Quote from: AdriftAtSea on December 16, 2008, 03:06:59 PM
Don't believe that device is legal in the US... 

Adrift, when has any good hacker let that stand in his way?   Arrrrr!!!!   ;)

Also the beauty of a fanless system, is that if you want to waterproof it, get a zip lock baggie. Rubber band where the cord comes through, and your good to go.

Can't do that with a running laptop, or fanned sysytem (Well you can, but don't expect much life).

Thought about this Nowell.  Thought about using one of the smaller Pelican cases, but it probably uses some kind of heatsink to dissipate heat from the processor so it may not be that you can completely enclose it. 

I think it uses a Transmeta die, or some form of low watt die. Can't wait to get mine and disect it  ;D ;D

I am looking forward to you getting it too, I ask the Spouse about getting one the other day and got what is locally known as a "Spouse Look".  Roughly translated that means "You've got to be kidding, another computer?  You already have so many we have no place to put them"   ;)  But she's a sweetie so if I really want one she won't object, but it would be nice to have a hands-on review before I spend the doubloons. 

WiFi on boat - I have the little Linksys Wifi booster and it works well and makes it faster. I have heard that the mast mounted works much better but is not as portable.

I do suggest that you do without as much as you can. Gets to be to much like land living.

I expect in the next few years Garmin will  be able to send and receive text email like MX weather.

Check this out.  I was looking at one of these Engenius EUB-362-EXT units when I happened on this so I ordered the parts to build one.  I think it would be just the ticket for a mooring like those in Marathon.

http://trawler-beach-house.blogspot.com/2008/12/simple-and-inexpensive-wifi.html (http://trawler-beach-house.blogspot.com/2008/12/simple-and-inexpensive-wifi.html)

Don't mean to change the subject, but how the heck can someone resore their boat when it is -1 degree outside!!!  The cheapest indoor heated storage that I can work in is $950.00 per month which is a little bit out of my price range.  This cold weather sux!  I have cousins in the Phoenix, Tempe area That I'm thinking of going to ( seriously)  I HATE ARCTIC TEMPERATURES>  Marc

The problem that I see with this is the long extension cable. A lot of computers will not handle this unless it is a thick cable (less resistance) The price is a little high as you can get the the "Linksys" for $ 50 and buy the thicker longer cable. Also you can get a 800 milliamp system for about $ 170.

No mentions of the XO (http://laptop.org/en/laptop/index.shtml) in the robust/waterproof discussion? Or did I just miss it?

And heh, someone gave me a micro wireless mouse for Solstice, suitable for someone whose hands are about half my size. (I happen to detest laptop trackpads, generally.)

According to my research the unit he uses is the most powerful available.  The cable (USB) is an active cable which overcomes the length issue.

Quote from: nowell on December 17, 2008, 03:39:54 PM
Can't wait to get mine and disect it  ;D ;D

Nowell, you have been maddeningly silent on this subject.  Have you received it yet?  Does it work?  Inquiring minds want to know.   ;D

Hey Allan, no progress as yet, its still sitting in a box in the living room. Between work, and other projects, I just haven't had time to get into it yet. I will try and get to it in the next week or two. Will just set it up at home and do review and testing.

Great mate, can't wait to hear all about it.   ;)

Check this out...  I may just get one of these.  Would make traveling much easier.

http://www.acer.com/aspireone/ (http://www.acer.com/aspireone/)

http://us.acer.com/public/page9.do?sp=page4&dau34.oid=40836&UserCtxParam=0&GroupCtxParam=0&dctx1=25&CountryISOCtxParam=US&LanguageISOCtxParam=en&ctx3=-1&ctx4=United+States&crc=1846489241 (http://us.acer.com/public/page9.do?sp=page4&dau34.oid=40836&UserCtxParam=0&GroupCtxParam=0&dctx1=25&CountryISOCtxParam=US&LanguageISOCtxParam=en&ctx3=-1&ctx4=United+States&crc=1846489241)

I bought a MSI Wind Netbook for my daughter for Christmas so I am getting a chance to investigate it. It is pretty slick but has some limitations (no internal disc drive) probably could be set up for onboard use though. The Wind comes with either Linux or XP as of right now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSI_Wind_Netbook

The AspireOne has the XP or Linux option too and uses a standard laptop HD.  Just ordered a blue one and a pink one for Spouse.  Will do a write up when it gets here.

This just occurred to me; do you think we small boat guys are more technodweebies than big boat people?   ???

;)

I purchased Aspire One, XP a couple of months ago. Downloaded Seaclear for free and NOAA charts. Then bought an older version of Streets and Trips off of Amazon for $20 and also went ahead and bought a USB puck type GPS. The GPS seems to be more accurate than our old Magellan 320 as the new one will bring 5 sats sitting at the desk and the Magellan none. I,am thinking thats just old technology. It does have wireless email that seems to work OK. May look into a better antenna.  All in all this looks like a pretty good little traveling chartplotter, street plotter, and emailer. I wouldn't discount the solid state memory; because as the memory gets bigger this will be the way to go. Ron

Definitely sounds good! I wasn't at all discounting solid state memory, because I do believe that is the way things are going. I am beginning to see one materializing in my future the next time this old Dell starts giving me trouble. ;)

Ron B,

  Welcome aboard!  Sounds like a pretty good small boat set up you have there.  Do you have any idea what the current draw is like?  Does it run on the standard 20vdc, or something more user friendly?

  Maybe you could take a minute to tell us about yourself, your boat, and plans in the intro thread (http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=575)?

Welcome to SailFar!

I have an Asus EEE 900 netbook which I am currently experimenting with...  anyone know of any navigation or weather-related software written for LINUX?  Or will I need to go the WINE route?  I am fairly new to Linux but really like the small footprint and 7 second boot time and would like to avoid going to Windows XP.

For navigation check out NavGator (http://www.navgator.com/).

I downloaded it but haven't tried it yet.  It works with Windows and Linux.

Bill -

For GPS nav/chartplotting, SeaClear II works great under WINE in Linux:

http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=3659

There is quite a bit of discussion around on the 'net about running it on netbooks, too.

Quote from: CapnK on January 15, 2009, 11:49:44 AM
Bill -

For GPS nav/chartplotting, SeaClear II works great under WINE in Linux:

http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=3659

There is quite a bit of discussion around on the 'net about running it on netbooks, too.

Thanks- I hadn't noticed SeaClear on the WINE apps list before.  Last night I installed WINE and SeaClear, all up and running!    I also played a bit with the Grib viewer, but that had a bunch of windows dependencies that I didn't want to start loading so backed off.  Adventures with a linux newbie...   ???

Bill, Please report back on how well the setup works. Do you have a GPS antenna for it? Are you going to be testing it on your voyage?

Tim

I'm still playing with ideas, but a puck-style GPS antenna is definitely part of the plan.  I'm running out of time to put this all together before I head out with Ocean Classroom though, so I suspect that it will just be my sextant making the trip with me.  I do hope to have it together to test on WanderBird this summer though...

Quote from: Bill NH on January 16, 2009, 08:33:06 AM

Quote from: CapnK on January 15, 2009, 11:49:44 AM
Bill -

For GPS nav/chartplotting, SeaClear II works great under WINE in Linux:

http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=3659

There is quite a bit of discussion around on the 'net about running it on netbooks, too.

Thanks- I hadn't noticed SeaClear on the WINE apps list before.  Last night I installed WINE and SeaClear, all up and running!    I also played a bit with the Grib viewer, but that had a bunch of windows dependencies that I didn't want to start loading so backed off.  Adventures with a linux newbie...   ???

Not sure if this will clear up the dependency issues you see, but if you go to the wine site, find and download a file called "winescripts," you have in one tool many, many dll's to fix problems running apps with wine.  These dll's tend to work better than those obtained from MS site and they are all in one place (don't have to hunt 'em down).

Hope this helps...

Here's a new netbook that will be coming out soon, according to the story below. It only uses 2.5 watts of energy, so the manufacturer says runtime will be up to 9.5 hours on the included battery. It has generally faster hardware inside it also. Read on:

http://www.windowsfordevices.com/news/NS9895185354.html

Oo Oo the timing on this could be good! Of course then again I could make this old Dell self-destruct at any moment.  ;D

Hi Guys!

Time to revive this thread? 

I got myself an Asus eee pc for a fraction of it's retail price at E-Bay.  ;D

And even more appealing for a die-hard Macintosh guy like me is that it comes with a Linux distribution that I am really looking forward to getting acquainted with...  ;D

Now to my question for the experts out there:

To run  a Win navigation/chart program like Transas Tsunami or Maxsea fro instance on Linux. What EXACTLY do I have to do?   ???

MaxiSwede— 

Quote from: CapnK on January 15, 2009, 11:49:44 AM
Bill -

For GPS nav/chartplotting, SeaClear II works great under WINE in Linux:

http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=3659

There is quite a bit of discussion around on the 'net about running it on netbooks, too.

Thanks Adrift,

I've seen it, I just don't know what to do with it after I downloaded it.

I need to install Wine first of all or what?   ???

Yes, you need to install wine.  Wine provides linux the functionality to run some windows-based programs.

OK, I'll have a go at it.  ;)

Keep us posted.  It would help to know which distro of Linux you're using, since some are easier to use than others. :)

Thanks Adrift,

I have done som web searches and it seems like Asus have installed a Linux Xandros distro. I v'e also found evidence of some guys installing Ubuntu instead. the limiting factor obviously the solid state 'hard drive' (= SD memory card) of a modest 4 GB. Therefore I would like to strip everything 'unnecessary' of it.

Basically just keep Firefox, Skype, maybe OpenOffice and then install Wine and the nav&charts stuff.

I will get back after having a go at it, hopefully during the weekend.

All the best

Quote from: Bill NH on January 16, 2009, 08:33:06 AM

I also played a bit with the Grib viewer, but that had a bunch of windows dependencies that I didn't want to start loading so backed off.  Adventures with a linux newbie...   ???

Okay, I recently had a chance to play around with some grib software on Linux.

I *think* the viewer Bill was trying was ugrib (http://www.grib.us/) which does not install with wine because of a .Net framework dependency issue.  I probably could have resolved this, but did NOT want to put time into it, so...

Options:

(1) For all you Linux guys that get tired of hearing "no software, no software, no software," consider running Windows in a Virtual Machine.  If you happen to buy a computer with Windows pre-installed, you already legally own a copy of Windows and can thus run Linux as your primary OS and run Windows as needed.  I do this with Windows 2000 for some consulting work for Windows centric clients.

Not the neatest solution if your plan is to be Windows-free, but in the pragmatics of the real world, we sometimes do what we have to do.

I did NOT try to install ugrib on my Windows 2000 virtual machine.

(2) Ignore the claims that these software solutions don't exist for Linux and try a grib viewer written for Linux.   ;D

How about zyGrib (http://www.zygrib.org/index.php?page=abstract_en)?

I just installed it and so far it seems to work good.  I initially tried it with a grib I downloaded from NOAA rather than using the internal grib download feature of zyGrib.

One note, though.  Binary packages are only available for Debian and Ubuntu; if you are on another distro, you have to download the sources and compile.  This was trivial, and actual compiling only took a few minutes.

(3) Use a web based grib viewer such as PassageWeather (http://www.passageweather.com/).  There are two suboptions here:

(a) use the browser based viewer; only good if you have broadband
(b) download the pictures as a zip file; you don't get the raw data, so you will not be able to do certain things - such as, hover the mouse on a specific lat-long and get the data for THAT point, etc.


I'll be happy to post some screen shots of zyGrib if anyone is interested.

Figure this is as good a place as any to ask this question.....is there an easy, simple and relatively inexpensive way to increase wifi range (pick-up...not send) I can pick it up on the boat but its in/out a lot unless I anchor really close (bad spot) Don't mind spending a bit if range really improves.

( I have been waiting for a chance to do this)

QuoteFigure this is as good a place as any to ask this question.....is there an easy, simple and relatively inexpensive way to increase wifi range (pick-up...not send) I can pick it up on the boat but its in/out a lot unless I anchor really close (bad spot) Don't mind spending a bit if range really improves.

Sir, did you use the search function  ;) ;D

If you weren't so busy having fun you might have noticed this thread

http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=2179.0

Thanks for the link  Tim


Must admit I get a bit confused with this computer talk: Quote from Capt S on this

"I don't know if this applies to ALL Atheros chipset devices, but the one I have (not any of the devices discusses explicitly in this thread), the Atheros chipset USB devices require running the Windows driver that comes with the device via the ndis wrapper to get it to run on Linux.

This will generally require compiling the ndis kernel module, though depending on your kernel version, you MAY find someone has already compiled one for you.

For what it's worth, the powered antenna I started the thread with is completely OS neutral."

But I've decided to "book em Nano"  ;)        
                                                                 (I must be gettin old)

Quote from: Frank on December 06, 2009, 02:01:06 PM
Thanks for the link Bill   Tim


Must admit I get a bit confused with this computer talk: Quote from Capt S on this

"I don't know if this applies to ALL Atheros chipset devices, but the one I have (not any of the devices discusses explicitly in this thread), the Atheros chipset USB devices require running the Windows driver that comes with the device via the ndis wrapper to get it to run on Linux.

This will generally require compiling the ndis kernel module, though depending on your kernel version, you MAY find someone has already compiled one for you.

For what it's worth, the powered antenna I started the thread with is completely OS neutral."

But I've decided to "book em Nano"  ;)       
                                                                  (I must be gettin old)

Frank,

Let me clarify.  The Atheros chipset device I was talking about...the one that needed a driver compiled, is NOT the Nano powered antenna.  The Ubiquiti Nano does not require any driver on the computer...it is "plug and play."

That bit about the kernel driver was for using another wifi device on a Linux computer - it was a side discussion in the thread about the Nano.

Hope that eases the decision to buy a Nano.  I think you will be pleased with it.  I can see networks several miles away, so it should help with your connectivity while anchored out.

I like the 'plug n play' part. Chipsets and I think of Tiger Woods. Already have one on order. Thanks for the info. My "book em Nano' comment was a sad atempt at humour with the old Hawai 5-0 series were he'd always say "book em Danno". This is really good info as it should work from the cottage across to Coopers Town as well.  Thanks for the find. Inexpensive too. grog to ya

Quote from: Frank on December 06, 2009, 09:40:29 PM
I like the 'plug n play' part. Chipsets and I think of Tiger Woods....

Would I be a Luddite if I suggested something a bit more kiss?

(http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1268.0;attach=2241)

(http://www.dpchallenge.com/images/pix.gif)

Like this?

(http://www.wayneschulz.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/tin-can-string1.jpg)

 ;)

  Thanks Tim.  That's perfect.

Check out your post count.

QuotekARRR-ma: +73/-0
[Grog!] [Lashes]
Online Online

Posts: 777

;D

Frankie -

Here's another possible solution, one you could fiddle with without needing to buy anything, or much, depending...

http://lifehacker.com/5053796/boost-your-wi+fi-signal-with-cooking-strainer

I've boosted signal noticeably by making 'parabolic' reflectors using aluminum cooking foil and/or cookware (pie plate). InSSider WiFi Scanner (http://www.metageek.net/products/inssider) is a free Windows program that does a great job of showing network signals and strength, something to use that might help you to find out when you are getting the best signal while pointing an antenna...

WRT computers: a couple months ago the local WalMart had a closeout special, a bit under $300 for an Acer Aspire One 751h - 11.6" screen (1366x768 pix resolution), 2G RAM, and 250G hdd, and a full-size keyboard. Came with Vista. Not so good for Linux :( due to the proprietary video chipset ('Intel' GMA500 - blah : video gets choppy sometimes) but everything else is fine, better than I expected, actually.

I had a XP Pro license looking for a home, so I swapped that out with the Vista install, and saw an immediate 60%+ increase in battery life. An aftermarket 9-cell battery gives me *huge* battery time - it shows in excess of 13-14 hours runtime with screen dimmed 2 notches, but wifi running. Boot times: highly tweaked XP is 25~ secs, #! Linux unmodified is similar. The screen is what does it for me; I need the real estate for website development, the 1024x600 resolution netbooks I tried just weren't cutting it.

I halved the weight I tote off the boat every day, have power to spare, and the quick boots along with the other considerations have made it possible for me to be a lot more productive. I can also tether my Blackberry Pearl 8100 with a USB cord and get 112kb connection speeds anywhere I have cell signal. A few weeks ago I was able to update a clients website on a Saturday morning in less than 2 hours from his request, while sitting on a camp chair in front of my tent out in the woods. :) I haven't played with any navigation tools on it yet, it's just a work tool for now.

And for last, the below: ;)

LOL ;D

Capt K.....I'm confused...guess I'll have another rum.


PS....love the cans and string  ;)   Now that IS my speed

Quote from: Tim on December 06, 2009, 01:25:57 PM
( I have been waiting for a chance to do this)

QuoteFigure this is as good a place as any to ask this question.....is there an easy, simple and relatively inexpensive way to increase wifi range (pick-up...not send) I can pick it up on the boat but its in/out a lot unless I anchor really close (bad spot) Don't mind spending a bit if range really improves.

Sir, did you use the search function  ;) ;D

If you weren't so busy having fun you might have noticed this thread

http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=2179.0

I would like to share a few thoughts on the use (or in my case...lack of use) of the search function.
What I did with this thread was esentially hijack it in a different direction....not good
If you...or "I" have a question or need info, use of the search function will generally bring up a discussion that was previously started on  that topic ......sharing your (my) thoughts 'there' will keep info all in one place and make it much simpler and easier for future users and myself to access that info later.  By not using it like I did above...info gets spread all over making it difficult to find again when needed.

                                                             ME BAD   ;D ::)

So....if we all...me included, promise to use the search function we will have a much better organized site, way easier access to information and we (I) won't be hijacking other threads.

                                                   Simple to use...way better site

Has anyone tried the new "Smartbook" Mini web/notebooks like Delstar Ultra-Compact Netbook?
http://delstar.net/wholesale-photo-watches-clocks/ds700-netbook.html
Specifications:
Samsung 533Mhz CPU
OS: Windows CE
RAM: 128 MB
2GB Solid State Drive
Additional expandable memory though SD cards
7″ WVGA LCD Screen
Touchpad pointing device

Or the Lanyu  eBook LY-EB01 eBook/netbook
http://eeepc.net/lanyus-ebook-ly-eb01-comes-in-cheap-at-99/

If you are curious to know, the eBook LY-EB01 features a 7-inch 800?480 TFT LCD, a 266MHz AK7802Q216 ARM processor, WinCE 5.0, Wi-Fi, 128MB RAM and a 1800mAH Li-Ion battery.

Per my understanding both has no moving hard drive but a chip and you can connect an external drive by plugging in A/C adapator.

Lynx, im a bit leery of static state drives (ie non moving hdd), for the reason being is they tend to have a shorter life span when doing high write functions (ie deleting and installing programs, maps, whatever). While solid state drives will be the future, I don't think they are quite there yet.

Overall, thats a decent netbook. I just purchased a new HP and am pretty amazed at what it can do. What it all boils down to though, is what exactly are you going to be using the machine for? In most cases, the hardware isn't used to its full potential anyway (unless you happen to be in the tech field). All the extra ability the hardware has just makes it easier for lazy programmers write bloated, crappy code (a-la windows 7). End of the day, just get what is comfortable for you to look at for however long you need, and worry about whats inside of it later. For a SailFar boat, I would say anything that has a comfortable screen and the longest battery life possible. All else is filler.

Quote from: nowell on December 14, 2009, 01:43:12 PM
{snip}...All the extra ability the hardware has just makes it easier for lazy programmers write bloated, crappy code (a-la windows 7). End of the day, just get what is comfortable for you to look at for however long you need, and worry about whats inside of it later. For a SailFar boat, I would say anything that has a comfortable screen and the longest battery life possible. All else is filler.

I with you on that. I have clients call all the time, asking if some $400-600 laptop is going to be 'powerful' enough for them - and all they do is websurf, maybe some emails, spreadsheets, writing... Hardware specs have so far outpaced what is actually needed by 90%+ of people that it is amazing. I tell 'em get the cheapest one they can find; they all will have a year warranty and if it doesn't break by then, you'll get 3+ years out of it likely with no (hardware-related) issues.

James/Lynx - there was a writeup about the ultratiny/cheap ARM-powered netbooks the other day - looky here (http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/12/12/1627205). Besides the links in the summary at top, you might want to take the time to skim down thru the hundreds of comments, usually there is some good info hidden in the rest of the noise...

A couple things I wanted to add to this thread that I've found to make small computer use a bit more 'fun' or convenient onboard:

A set of USB-powered external speakers are very useful with the netbook. I have these (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=12321676) that I purchased from Walmart for ~$12, IIRC. They won't fill a concert hall with audiophile-quality music ;), but they do a great job in a sailboat cabin. I use them for general music playing ('net radio or my own mp3's) during the day, and at night a lot of times last thing I'll do is watch some TED (http://www.ted.com/) or Hulu. They work well enough in both instances, a great and very cheap improvement over the built-in speakers.

A cheap laptop stand (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=rubbermaid+laptop+stand&oe=utf-8&cid=5770764018593145233&sa=title#p). While a bit large for a netbook, it still comes in handy, and is just the right size when I'm using my 'normal' laptop. Laptops/netbooks can overheat if set on cushions or other surfaces which can block their smallish cooling vents, and on of these will keep that from becoming a possibility. In addition to that, the 'tilt' function makes working on the laptop a bit more ergonomic.

Last, when stretched out on your side in the v-berth or on a settee and watching a video, the video is an annoying 90* sideways. With one of these, you can set the 'puter on the stand - but rotated 90* from usual - and use the 'tilt' to make the screen closer to what you would see if you were sitting up. Does that make sense? ;D

Capt K,
I got an Acer Aspire One (the 10", 160gb model) on clearance at Target for $199 and love it. I bought it specifically for the boat and so far have SeaClear II and all my NOAA charts on it. With the addition of a $40 GPS puck it should be a nice little charting tool.

Web surfing, etc. is just a bonus.

I still need to add a 12 volt charger and maybe larger battery.

There's a sailor on the SeaClear email list who has an external monitor that swings into the companionway and a bluetooth mouse. A nice system for using it in the cockpit with minimal risk to the computer.

I don't much favor this approach, but for any who might I noticed todays special on woot.com (http://www.woot.com/);

QuoteAugen 7" Color Touchscreen Entertainment Tablet PC
$109.99

    * + $5 shipping

Condition:
    Refurbished
Product:
    1 Augen GENTOUCH78 Color 7? Touchscreen Tablet PC with Google Android 2.1, 2GB, SD slot, 802.11g

(http://sale.images.woot.com/Augen_GENTOUCH78_7__Touchscreen_Tablet_PCu7lStandard.jpg)

I just bought an older model Panasonic Toughbook CF-28 on Ebay for ~$250.
It's super rugged and after what happened to my last boat notebook, it's what I was looking for. It's the same model you'll find in police cruisers and in some military applications.

It has a touchscreen, is daylight readable, and is even spash/waterproof to some degree, though I have no inclination to test this out. Although it is somewhat behind the times with a lowly PIII 1 ghz, it has enough horsepower to run Open CPN and a few other programs. I spent another $40 on a 12v adapter for it. My only beef with it is that it's sort of a power hog at 3A.

Hi guys,
By now I'm sure you know that Im not very knowledgable about computers, so please excuse an awkward question.....but is my Ipad considered a real computer?  I've been using it to navigate with on Puff by running the Navionics app.  So far it seems to work very well, giving me more information than I know how to use, keeping an accurate track of where I've been, and it's all easy to upload to my Facebook page.  I can also get the weather, surf the web, email, read books, etc. I usually just prop it up on the cockpit seat and let it run.  I don't think it has any moving parts, it generates no heat, and the battery life is about ten hours. I have noticed that the touch screen gets a little over sensitive when saltwater spray gets on it, but I slip it out of it's case and wipe it down with a damp cloth and that seems to take care of it. So far,it seems to be ideal for small boat use.

 ;) we've on occasion used our IPhones the same way. We have all the NOAA coastal charts downloaded, plus some others.

Oh- and as an ex computer programming instructor and systems analyst, certainly it's a computer. Remember- one of the FIRST computers was an Abucus ;D

I am very happy with my new Ipad (that is right, I have been drawn to the dark side...)

But,

  For $179, this might be a good deal for someone without a tablet.... beats lugging a laptop ashore to check SailFar!

HP 32g Tablet on Woot.com for $179 (http://sellout.woot.com/offers/hp-touchpad-9-7-32gb-wi-fi-tablet-2)

I think the iPad is a pretty great sailfar-ish boat computer.  The cost can be a bit dear, but you can do what I did and buy a refurbished, older model from Apple and save some $$ if you're not concerned with having the latest and the greatest (I got the 1 right after the 2 came out.)  The 3G models have good quality GPS receivers in them that help them function as pretty accurate chartplotters with the addition of an app or two.  You can also get basic Internet access with these for $15/mo. which is about as cheap as anything ... and you can turn the plan on/off every month if you like.  They take very little power and recharge easily off of 12V with a 12V to USB adapter.  All good stuff for boats.  I'd recommend a keyboard if you're writing a bunch on one and a waterproof case/clear envelope if you plan to use it in the cockpit (though it will be harder to read the screen in the sun.)  Also, get it in white if you can, because they will overheat if left in the sun for very long and the white will at least reduce that tendency. 

Quote from: Captain Smollett on October 16, 2007, 07:05:58 PM

NO EFFORT WHATSOEVER to get either SeaClear OR Chart Navigator (both free downloads) to work.

I have to provide an update to this.

With wine upgrades, Chart Navigator is now a MAJOR pain to get to work.  In fact, I had an almost working installation going, and somehow it 'broke' yesterday and I have not been able to recover it.

New versions of OpenCPN are far superior and available on various computer platforms.

I squeezed as many years out of CN as I could...but it's time to say goodbye.