My flares have expired, so I went to WM yesterday to buy some replacements. Like I dummy, I assumed they would only sell reasonably new ones and did not check the dates in the store. Of the ones I bought, one pack expires in 8/2006 :o, another in 2008 and the third 2009.
I returned the '06 and '08 ones today. There was little fuss, except for one thing. The WM employee tried to tell be the '08 ones were 'normal' - that a two year cycle was normal - all on the shelf were made in '05. I questioned this, and we looked at the same ariel flares in a kit and they expired in '09. I was a bit disturbed that he either (a) did not know they are supposed to be good for THREE years or (b) was purposefully trying to manipulate me.
Has anyone had experience in ordering flares from WM online? Do they come with reasonably recent manufacture dates, or is online ordering a crapshoot as well? I need to get replacements before we head to Coastal Waters, and sure don't want to order flares I will have to replace again later this year, next year or in '08.
(One reason I am balking at the '08 flares is to keep all my flares on the same replacement cycle).
bought our last flares in WalMart. They had 12Ga and hand held flares.
Just an observation here....if you're going offshore, you really should have a 25mm flare gun. the 12 gauge does well in coastal cruising situations, but it doesn't have a long enough hang time. The 25mm is a much better choice, and not that much more expensive. I saw them at (forgive me Charlie) West Marine yesterday, for $103.00,(gun and 3 or 4 flares.
Larry
I'm not sure Walmart here stocks them; they probably don't have a lot of demand here for marine safety flares. But I will sure check.
As far as 12 ga vs 25 mm goes, (1) I will be staying in coastal areas, at least for the short term (2) I already have the 12 ga. gun. I will definitely keep this in mind as I plan in the future.
I surely agree on the 25 mm flare gun. Let mine go when I sold the tri- he never sailed it outside Galveston Bay- should have kept the 25mm and given him the 12 MM.
Ah well- you KNOW what they say about hindsight ;D
Yeah, I've had to root around on the shelf at West Marine for fresh flares.
One year on the 4th of July I shot off some old 12 guage aerial flares at the Park.
The performance was truly pathetic.
25mm parachute flares would be nice. About $45 at WM for one. Ouch.
out dated flares make for great fun on the 4th of july and new years.
Quote from: Cmdr Pete on March 09, 2006, 03:27:41 PM
One year on the 4th of July I shot off some old 12 Gage aerial flares at the Park.
The performance was truly pathetic.....
Just had part in discharging about 15 expired 12ga flares. Had a great time doing it, these were shelf stock that had not been stored on a boat or ever opened.
Of the 15 I shot, 3 were duds and at least 7 only went a few feet! There were about 40 we fired and the numbers were pretty much similar.... not so good.
I always figured that the expiration dates were pretty conservative. My experience shows otherwise.
The ideal launch angle is 45degrees, (for distance) and at best these things made about 50 yards... most well short of that.
Yes, something other then 12ga is definitely in order for off shore work. :-\ :-[ :o 8) :-\ >:( ;) :-[
Roman candles do a better job than most of the 12 gauge flares. I'll probably invest in a 25mm gun, and a parachute flare, just to be on the safe side. You just never know. Ya know? ???
Larry Wilson
In the Panama City WM last weekend, they had 2 packs of 25 mm guns with flares. I think they were $107. Anyway- expiration dates on flares... 6-06 and 10-6. Hardly a bargain! Watch those dates.
Well you talk about your die-hard sick-o- sailors, my wife and I registered at WM for our wedding. We did get a lot of great stuff but also a lot of negative feedback from friends that had a terrible time trying to order stuff. When it comes to having to deal with a wedding registry some of those folks just didn't care. My wife has a large celebrity clientle and some told us they gave up and went elsewhere which means WM as well as we lost out on what could have been some high ticket items. Anyway live and learn. We still had a great wedding got married at our boat and sailed off for a few days to the channel islands. There is a huge story about that adventure which I'll share another time.
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This morning it looked so nice out I thought I'd leave it out.
S/V "Tina Marie" Cal 2-27
do you mean Wall Mart????
Eric,
WM, is where all the money goes..... 'West Marine'
THen there is the 'po man's WM'.... that is Wall Mart. ;D
WM=Worst Marine, I mean West Marine...
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This morning it looked so nice out I thought I'd leave it out.
S/V "Tina Marie" Cal 2-27
I have been given the nick-name "East Marine" simply because I made an outboard mount out of 1-3/4 inch galvanized pipe fittings. [AND I USED SILICONE FOR ALL THE SEALANTS--AND ALL THE FITTINGS WERE CROSS BOLTED AND THRU-BOLTED]I worked great,it coulda held 5 four horse engines,and utilized a come-a-long as a crane to raise the motors entirley out of the water.cant wait to get another boat.got lotsa ideas.didja ever wonder whats out there---beyound the horison??? there aint no stop signs--thas' fer sure.
I had to get a job at WM in order to support my habit. Flairs expire three years from the date of manufacturer so by the time you get them, they might only have two years of shelf life left. The requirement for the coast guard is that you have some flairs in date. The out of date ones should still work. MY advice is to shoot the expired ones off on the 4th of July or New years. This does two things, you use up your old stock, but more importantly, you see first hand what these devices do. You get to feel how the gun shoots and how loud it is as well as how long the flairs really burn.
After you see how long the 12ga ones actually burn, you might decide to buy them by the case for when you really need them.
Went to the Safety At Sea seminar in Newport, RI, this past March. They did a demonstration of USCG and SOLAS flares there that was very enlightening. I'd have to say that if you're going to spend the money...you're much better off getting SOLAS approved flares, rather than the USCG ones. Almost all of the SOLAS flares are also USCG approved, as they are a higher specification than the USCG one.
A couple advantages to SOLAS flares over USCG ones. The handheld signal flares don't drop as much slag as the USCG ones, which is nice if you don't want to start a fire on your boat. The SOLAS handheld flares are also significantly brighter than the USCG ones. The SOLAS aerial parachutes are not only much brighter than the USCG aerial flares, but go much higher, and are visible for a much greater distance.
Also, as part of their demonstration, they fired off some old (10+ years!) SOLAS flares, which were still significantly brighter and more visible than the USCG ones.
Personally, I don't see any point in not getting USCG flares... and I order them from Defender.com, as they have excellent prices and drop ship them from the manufacturer, so you get fresh flares, rather than stale shelf stock.
Thanks for the excellent additions to this thread, Shaka and Adrift!
Quote from: AdriftAtSea on May 17, 2006, 04:46:22 AM
and I order them from Defender.com, as they have excellent prices and drop ship them from the manufacturer, so you get fresh flares, rather than stale shelf stock.
Hmmm. I just went to Defender.com about four days ago looking at 25 mm flares, and the site said that they were only for sale in their brick and mortar store. I assumed it was because of shipping haz mat, but did not pursue further.
I found a web site that did have them, but shipping was $87 :o :o
I'll be making a visit to another West Marine (one at the coast) in the hope that their flares are newer.
And Shakabrush, my issue was that the ones on the shelf expired in FIVE MONTHS. I did not notice until I got home (my bad), but when I took them to exchange them, they had none newer. Selling a product with a three year shelf life five months before the date of expiration is not-so-good (unless they prorate the price, which they did not).
That's weird... I ordered my flares earlier this year for the Pretty Gee... and the shipping was pretty obnoxious...but the OSTAR kit came with four white collision, four red signal, four red parachute and a smoke canister. It was packed in a metal ammo crate, and had the Pains Wessex Poly bottle for use on board... although I'm using the ammo crate instead. :D
Hamilton Marine (www.hamiltonmarine.com) might also be a good source, but I haven't tried them yet. Their prices are better than Defender.com's, but I don't know if they drop ship from the factory.
Our club has the USCG aux coming out next month to do the Vessel Safety Checks. (http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=861.0) I checked my stuff over this weekend and found I was out of date (yet again).
I decided to seal my old stuff with my foodsaver vacuum packager. I am thinking that keeping moisture from getting in should prolong it's life.
S/V Faith-
If they are SOLAS-approved flares, and I hope everybody is getting SOLAS-approved flares as they are significantly better than the USCG ones, they're good for a very long time past their expiry date. At the Safety At Sea seminar last March, they showed off the difference and also fired of some SOLAS-flares that were almost 10 years old. :D
A thought based on the reference to hand-held flares: I bought a pack of 3 pairs of all-leather gardening gloves at Home Depot; I don't recall if they were $12/pack or $20/pack, but they seemed a good deal at the time. I keep one pair with my fishing gear (protect hands when boating a fish, which unfortunately doesn't happen much and readily available for anchor duty if necessary) and one pair in the waterproof canister with my flares. Since the gloves are in with the flares, I hope that in extremis I will remember to put them on before firing off a flare.
One major advantage is that SOLAS-approved flares are generally safer to handle, as they tend not to drop slag, as the USCG-approved flares do.
This video demonstrates another way to dispose of your old flares
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/425689/guy_shoots_himself_in_the_head_with_flare_gun/
I wrote about this in a post on TSBB and even did a separate posting about it since I feel it important. I decided people here would be far more likely to actually NEED these things ( hopefully not) so I decided to cut and paste the post here also. Here's what we did with flares last night.
After supper, we decided to adjourn to the beach to test some signal flares in among the fire works. We'd seen a parachute flare fired the evening before and wondered just what our flares looked like-
in a word- frightening!!!!
Laura and I had a plastic flare gun with 5 expired flares aboard Tehani so she had brought them home just for this. When we first opened the package we discovered that the gun itself could NOT be opened!!!!! I took a shot gun down so we could fire those flares anyway. The first flare fired soared into the sky a romping 25 feet???? and dropped into the water, where we could see it burn for another 45 seconds max. I finally forced the flare gun open enough ( it never really opened) to insert a flare and tried that- that went much better- maybe 100 feet. The third one I gave to Laura and it misfired- the firing pin made a dent in the primer, but it didn't go off. So I dumped that flare out, put in another and gave her back the gun- THAT one went and also went about 100 feet up. The one that misfired was tried again from the shotgun where it did go- it went about 75 feet up. Wolf fired off the final one and it again did about 100 feet. Burn time on all of them was MAYBE 45 seconds or so.
We then opened a package of hand held flares. THOSE all functioned as advertised, lighting easily and burning for three or four minutes. I made every one try theirs in the dark figuring you'd BETTER be able to ignite it in black conditions after all. THOSE flares were agreed to be worth while, but be SURE you hold them away from the boat and NOT over any part of you- they drip burning slag as they burn.
The consensus was the hand helds were worth having, the small plastic gun and 12 ga flares were pretty much worthless unless a rescue vessel was already aware of you and just needed something to home in on. We WILL be buying some of the parachute flares to put aboard- from the one we watched the night before THSE would give you a fighting chance of attracting attention- they soared high and lasted for 4 to 5 or more minutes as they slowly descended.
Yeah, they aren't cheap, but then neither is your life.
If you carry the plastic 12 Ga set, carry LOTS of flares- like a dozen at least.
And I sincerely hope no one here ever has to use a signal flare in earnest.
When I was shipping commercially I used to bring home the expired SOLAS flares if I was driving home from the ship... The SOLAS-grade parachute flares are pretty impressive, both in altitude and burn time. I did and still do carry them on board, plus a set of unexpired cheapies to keep the coasties happy. I guess it's just like anything else, you get what you pay for (although I was lucky enough to get them for free...)
CJ,
Same here.
Quote from: s/v Faith on March 09, 2006, 09:07:42 PM
Quote from: Cmdr Pete on March 09, 2006, 03:27:41 PM
One year on the 4th of July I shot off some old 12 Gage aerial flares at the Park.
The performance was truly pathetic.....
Just had part in discharging about 15 expired 12ga flares. Had a great time doing it, these were shelf stock that had not been stored on a boat or ever opened.
Of the 15 I shot, 3 were duds and at least 7 only went a few feet! There were about 40 we fired and the numbers were pretty much similar.... not so good.
I always figured that the expiration dates were pretty conservative. My experience shows otherwise.
The ideal launch angle is 45degrees, (for distance) and at best these things made about 50 yards... most well short of that.
Yes, something other then 12ga is definitely in order for off shore work. :-\ :-[ :o 8) :-\ >:( ;) :-[