I just bought an Origo 3000 non-pressurized stove to replace my old pressurized stove. It looks like a really fine piece of equipment. I also got the gimbals to go with it, but for the life of me I can't understand the directions as to how the gimbals are to be set up. Or, rather, I understand perfectly and it seems like a really lousy design...so I must be doing something wrong. Does anybody here have a gimballed Origo stove that they could shoot a few pictures of how they installed the gimbals so I can perhaps understand it?
I specifically concerned with the piece that attaches to the cut-out in the counter, not the piece that attaches to the stove itself.
Quote from: mrbill on December 18, 2007, 02:27:06 PMOr, rather, I understand perfectly and it seems like a really lousy design...so I must be doing something wrong.
LOL, Bill.
I hope someone can help you out with this...
And remember - just cause someone manufactured it, doesn't mean they did it the best way possible. I see some messed up stuff come from manufacturers at times - whether instructions, or how stuff is made. You might be right in your thinking...
Good luck!
Not long ago I got an Origo alcohol stove to replace the aging pressurized alcohol stove for which I could no longer get parts.
Today I finally got around to filling the alcohol cannisters, and fired it up.
I get a 9-12 inch tall yellow sooty flame on the highest setting, that diminishes as the burner control is turned down, but still very sooty. Also, the control plate shifts the flame to the side as the burner control is closed down, producing uneven heating.
Somehow I had expected cleaner burning...(I am using fresh alcohol in case someone asks). I have a small homemade backpackers emergency stove (a "coke can" stove...literally made from a coke can) that burns cleaner than this.
Is this normal behavior for an Origo?
I've never used an Origo; but I wonder if perhaps there is some contamination from manufacturing (some kind of oil or solvent maybe) that is burning off. If so, I would think that the soot would ease before long. I've never heard anyone complain of alcohol being sooty before (although, that doesn't necessarily mean anything).
Is it denatured alcohol that you are using?
Was the stove you got new or used. If it was used, the tanks could be contaminated with something, and that could be causing the sooty flame.
To answer the questions, I'm using Coleman camp stove fuel...the same stuff I used in the pressurized alcohol stove. Yesterday I tried to actually cook something. When the flame was turned down, the plate over the top of the burner shifted the flame to the side as I described before, but now the pan on top caused the flame to come out the side and scorch the gimbal brackets. It took a good 15 minutes of scrubbing to get the soot off the bottom of the pan.
I expected I would get a bluish nearly invisible flame like from sterno. The stove is brand new and the fuel freshly purchased.
camp stove fuel is more like unleaded gasoline, and probably shouldn't be used in an alcohol stove. Use denatured alcohol instead.
I agree with adriftatsea, Coleman fuel is similar or the same as white gas. All the stoves that use this fuel are pressure stoves, that may be the reason it worked in your alcohol pressure stove. My origo that I had in my Catalina worked well and burned clean. Almost any Hardware store will stock denatured alcohol.
D'OH!
OK, I read the instructions (again) and see it does call for denatured grain alcohol...and nowhere on the coleman fuel can does it tell you what it is...and I think you are right...it is SOME form of alcohol but mixed with other dtuff. I guess I just assumed it would work 'cause I have used it in other non-pressurized camp stoves.
I'm off to the hardware when they open to try the "right stuff"
It'll probably smoke a bit until the other fuel is completely out of the system. :)
Quote from: mrbill on March 09, 2008, 07:40:51 PM
the coleman fuel can does it tell you what it is...and I think you are right...it is SOME form of alcohol but mixed with other dtuff.
Just for info's sake, Coleman fuel does not contain alcohol - not that I've ever noticed when I've analyzed it for arson testing. It's white gasoline, pretty much nothing more than a cleaner version of the unleaded gasoline you buy at the pump (no detergents and all that gunk they add for use in a car).
For years I burned unleaded gasoline in my camp stoves and lanterns since it was much cheaper than Coleman fuel. Gasoline burns similar (maybe a skosh cooler), but sure does stink a lot more.
We used unleaded gasoline in a Coleman stove and lantern for years, and never bothered buying the Coleman brand fuel... Worked fine... wouldn't know about the smell, since I've never used Coleman's fuel. :)
MrBill,
I would like to know how Coleman fuel worked in your old pressure alchohol stove. I use it for my mantle lantern and a gimbaled sea swing stove that I made from a Coleman Exponent burner(works well). I also like it because I could always through it in my gas tank in a pinch. I've been tempted to try it in my Kenyon pressure alcohol stove but the instructions say you should use only alcohol and I picture myself trying to siphon it out, thus I wonder about your experience with it. It's cheaper and has a higher caloric value than alcohol which means quicker heating.
I believe Coleman fuel is Naptha(smells like it; not gasoline)which is somewhat lighter than gasoline.
Coleman fuel is not a single formulation. It varies. But in general, it is very similar to gasoline (as analyzed by gc/ms).
Coleman fuel purchased today smells MUCH different from that sold 5-10 years ago. It also has a different color.
I would definitely NOT use Coleman fuel in an alcohol stove. Yes, it DOES contain a certain amount of Naptha, but the huge difference is the flash points of the two fuels.
Alcohol is the thing to use. Personally I don't like alcohol stoves, but that's just me ;D I have always used kerosene stoves and lamps aboard boat. since I started cruising in '76
That's 1976 for the smart butts on the board -You know who you are ;D
Charlie-
Good thing you clarified the year... I was going to ask you how it was to cruise on the USS Constitution's maiden post-war voyage. :)
Actually, Old Iron Sides was built for the War of 1812.
Quote from: Oldrig on March 11, 2008, 09:19:29 PM
Actually, Old Iron Sides was built for the War of 1812.
Sort of. Designed by Joshua Humphries in 1797, iirc, and keel laid around then, so the War of 1812 was not yet conceived. She saw a fair bit of service in the Med against the Barbary pirates before the War of 1812.
Smollett: You're right. As somebody who read "Six Frigates," and touted it on this board (I think), I should have known that. She did see service in the Med, but wasn't even on the drawing board in 1776.
--Joe
Quote from: bebop on March 11, 2008, 08:09:03 PM
MrBill,
I would like to know how Coleman fuel worked in your old pressure alchohol stove.
Coleman fuel worked great, but sooting of the burners during pre-heat was a problem...and pre-heating the burners produced a high sooty flame that was in my opinion too dangerous in the confined space of a cabin. But once warmed up, it burned with a nice blue flame and no soot or odor. I don't know if it was the fuel or the stove, but basically I had two temperature settings: "OFF" and "BLOWTORCH". I decided to replace the stove because of the lack of control, the pre-heating, and inability to get parts for it.
For the record, putting the RIGHT fuel in the Origo stove is a world of difference...a nicely controlled blue flame and no sooting. Just got to read the instructions...
Geez... so serious about a joke... :) I know Old Ironsides wasn't around for the Revolution.....
Mr Bill, how did the gimbals work on the Origo? I'm considering my galley options right now and I'm thinking about an Origo or the Cookmate clone. I heard a rumor, once, that the gimbals didn't work too well, and the stove would overbalance with a heavy pot. I'm drawing out my galley redesign now, and the stove is a major decision point.
Besides the gimbals, I'm also conflicted on whether to go with a two burner, or a one burner stove. A bigger sink (in my opinion this is non-negotiable as I can't even fit a small plate in the current sink) and a two burner gimbaled Cookmate would pretty much take up almost all of the existing counter space. I am looking at extending this into the quarterberth area; but that is a somewhat later project.
I realize MrBill's last comments were three years ago, but in the hope that he's still around...
MrBill, I'm wondering how that Origo non-pressurized alcohol stove has worked for you, and how it compared to the pressurize alcohol stove it replaced, heat-generating/cooking-time wise?
Abracadabra has a two-burner pressurized alcohol stove that, quite frankly, scares the bejesus out of The Admiral and I, so we're very likely never going to even try to light it. After examining the options, we've decided we think we'd like to replace it with an Origo or CookMate non-pressurize alcohol stove.
Jim
QuoteAbracadabra has a two-burner pressurized alcohol stove that, quite frankly, scares the bejesus out of The Admiral and I
Reason enough to replace it. I would not have anything aboard I felt that way about. ;D
Might I suggest an interim replacement?
(http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/public/TL2F-EQ_eI6LV7ZN1tg6R6gIsihhutZlyQydcK_cqoPVvvcXzbv-2Ekx7tbQIYYGD-7B6PffHoxlOs4Pe0B65mm6VJD2VxaxE17ter7oMZTGYWA9xD0JRuZB1r9xIOqH6I7ZGDi04eWXcLm0WBaAcU8)
These are available from a variety of stores, (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=butane+stove&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=8QK&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=ivns&resnum=2&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1440&bih=713&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=727020589684372236&sa=X&ei=X4veTba5GYGftwed-YH2CQ&ved=0CHoQ8gIwAQ)we have used them for years and have been pleased. The ones we have owned have been made of steel.. and require replacement every 5 years or so, but for $14 on ebay it is not a hardship.
We use a sterno sea swing under way, but on the hook or in sheltered water (much of the time you want to cook anyway) these are hard to beat. (compact, easy to use, easy to stow, fuel is cheap)..
I have one of these butane stoves and it works well. It's hard to simmer, though. Very hot.
One thing to consider seriously if you are planning to cruise long distance. Alcohol is THE most expensive fuel you can use, and it is also the least efficient heat wise. A gallon of stove alcohol in the Bahamas is over $30.
As I've said earlier in this thread, we use pressure kerosene and love it. Laura refuses propane, as do I on this boat. Next one (if there is a next one) might be different.
Quote from: s/v Faith on May 26, 2011, 01:21:39 PM
QuoteAbracadabra has a two-burner pressurized alcohol stove that, quite frankly, scares the bejesus out of The Admiral and I
Reason enough to replace it. I would not have anything aboard I felt that way about. ;D
Might I suggest an interim replacement?
I'll take it under advisement, and thanks for the suggestion.
Truthfully, the stove isn't all that's keeping us from cruising. We also need to replace the foam in the cushions (I can sleep on anything, nearly anywhere, but The Admiral is a bit more sensitive), get proper ground tackle in order, and some other stuff.
Quote from: CharlieJ on May 26, 2011, 07:08:35 PM
One thing to consider seriously if you are planning to cruise long distance. Alcohol is THE most expensive fuel you can use, and it is also the least efficient heat wise. A gallon of stove alcohol in the Bahamas is over $30.
Is it also exceedingly expensive in the U.S.? Reason I ask: I doubt we'd be sailing to the Bahamas in Abracadabra. She's not a blue water boat. Coastal waters, at best, and better kept to places like the Great Lakes and the ICW.
Quite frankly: At the rate we're going, I'll be surprised if she ever sees salt water.
Quote from: CharlieJ on May 26, 2011, 07:08:35 PM
As I've said earlier in this thread, we use pressure kerosene and love it.
I've read elsewhere that kerosene stoves can be quite odiferous.
Quote from: CharlieJ on May 26, 2011, 07:08:35 PM
Laura refuses propane, as do I on this boat. Next one (if there is a next one) might be different.
Propane's probably the best, all-around, except it brings back the very same kinds of dangers as gasoline-powered auxiliary power: Highly-volatile fumes that are heavier than air. I
do have one spot that is dead space that could be fitted with a propane locker--vented outboard, but it would require expen$ive glass work, and a relatively long line to the galley. Then there's the sniffer (which tend to false a lot, I'm led to understand) and, of course, the stove itself.
Probably not going to happen.
I've researched it and we've discussed it extensively. It's almost certainly going to be a non-pressurized alcohol stove, when we do it. But it ain't done, yet, so that could change :)
Jim
Quote from: SEMIJim on May 26, 2011, 07:29:53 PM
I've read elsewhere that kerosene stoves can be quite odiferous.
For weekending or other short term use, a butane stove is a good solution.
Kerosene stoves do not smell of kerosene unless they are being used incorrectly. Pressure kerosene gives a hot blue flame that has no odor.
Your alcohol stove can likely be converted to kerosene by switching out the burner nipples. I converted my Princess pressure alcohol stove to kerosene by switching out the burners.
If you decide you don't want the pressure alcohol stove, I might be interested in purchasing it.
Quote from: skylark on May 27, 2011, 06:49:18 AM
Kerosene stoves do not smell of kerosene unless they are being used incorrectly. Pressure kerosene gives a hot blue flame that has no odor.
Your alcohol stove can likely be converted to kerosene by switching out the burner nipples. I converted my Princess pressure alcohol stove to kerosene by switching out the burners.
That's interesting info, skylark. Thanks!
I believe our pressure alcohol stove is probably a Kenyon. Those were common on Pearson boats of our boat's vintage. I'll look into the feasibility of converting it. If kerosene really works well, after all, the conversion is cheaper than a new stove, and it's cheaper to operate, then that'd be a good way to go.
Quote from: skylark on May 27, 2011, 06:49:18 AM
If you decide you don't want the pressure alcohol stove, I might be interested in purchasing it.
I'll keep you in mind.
Whatever we do, we plan to supplement the galley stove with a grill that clamps to the pushpit railing--cooking outside whenever possible.
Jim
Good grief ::)
So all these years... okay, less than four years, but still... The Admiral and I have been scared to try the pressure alcohol stove on Abracadabra because of all the horror stories we've heard about them. (One of which, btw, was a boat that burned [nearly] to her water line, as a result of a pressure alcohol stove mishap, that used to be either in our slip or the one next to it.)
Then skylark mentions that maybe our pressure alcohol stove can be converted to a pressure kerosene stove. So I do a little searching. That led me to this Kenyon stove (http://www.boatkb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/cruising/583/Kenyon-stove) thread on another forum, which led me to this Pressure Alcohol Stove Information (http://www.angelfire.com/fl/cruisingkeywest/stoveinstr.html) page, which led me to these Kenyon Alcohol Stove Instructions (http://www.angelfire.com/fl/cruisingkeywest/kenyon.html).
So: Do it wrong and they flare up. Do it right and the don't.
Maybe we'll send the thing in to Kenyon for a reconditioning (it is 35 years old, after all) and use it.
Jim
CJ will correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC, he uses 100% mineral spirits in his stoves. Sometimes easy to find in hardware stores, jut make sure it's 100%
Correct. And that's what I've used for over 30 years now. Actual
kerosene is usually harder to find, more costly, and doesn't burn nearly as cleanly.
It isn't as well refined as it once was when many people used it in lamps and stoves.
We tried the 'low odor' stuff- went back to 100% mineral spirits.
Quote from: CharlieJ on May 26, 2011, 07:08:35 PM
One thing to consider seriously if you are planning to cruise long distance. Alcohol is THE most expensive fuel you can use, and it is also the least efficient heat wise. A gallon of stove alcohol in the Bahamas is over $30.
Whenever alcohol stoves are discussed these two complaints always come up. Everything is a tradeoff. When I someday take off, and assuming I haven't changed boats to one with a decent propane system, I'm pretty sure the negatives of alcohol are outweighed by the positives.
As to the second point where alcohol is the least efficient, I've cooked on a non-pressurized Origo a couple times, and found it plenty hot enough for the kind of cooking I do (I make simple meals; serious chefs might disagree), and actually had more trouble keeping the heat down when simmering.
As to the cost of the fuel, if the alternative is spending a couple thousand dollars installing a propane system (on my boat it would be even more as I don't have any place decent to put the propane tank) instead of spending three hundred or so on a non-pressurized alcohol cooking system (which is inherently simple), well, you can buy a LOT of alcohol for the difference, even at $30/gallon. If going far afield for an extended time, I think I'd be more concerned with fuel availability than cost (a concern I'd share with the 1lb propane and the butane canisters as well). It would be worthwhile to stock up before leaving if local availability was questionable.
Kerosene stoves are hard to find, now-a-days.
Parts are hard to find, that is the biggest drawback of kerosene, in my opinion.
Oh I agree. If Basecamp.UK ever gives up I'll probably be forced to propane. But since we have two complete stoves, four extra burners, and some parts, it probably won't happen inmy cruising lifetime.
But it is sorta aggravating that a really good system is going away.
$30-a-gallon stove alcohol is , well ... :o
But compared-and-contrasted with the price of a new stove ... less so. Especially when I add the costs of a propane-tank installation into a boat that doesn't have a propane locker ... or the risks of an improper propane installation. It is a damnable pity that kerosene stoves have left the marketplace!
My Bristol 29.9 came with a two-burner Origo stove, which I used a few times last summer. Maybe it took a little longer to bring my pressure-cooker chicken and quinoa to a boil and to full pressure than a butane buffet-stove would have taken; I don't know. But it did the job well, and one fill of the stove (actually a partial fill) lasted for a good amount of time. So I'm going to go with it for the time being.
Funny hint for Origo owners: "Cr? 82" vodka is sold in rugged, gasket-sealing, stainless-steel bottles, very much like the Sigg fuel bottles that used to be sold in the backpacker stores. Each bottle is 750 ml, or a "fifth" in old-style parlance (one-fifth of a gallon) - enough to fill an Origo cartridge most of the way, but not overfill it.
But kero stoves haven't left the market place. Just that they are hard to find in THIS country.
Check out-
http://www.base-camp.co.uk/
That's who I get all my spares from
also have an Origo... from the earley -70ties ;D (need to get some paint on it)
belive it or not but still working... it's heat regulated with a "draw", simple!
Yes I'm on a tight budget ;)
Here is a link to a source here in the US that sell a stove very similar to the Origo stove.
http://www.stpaulmercantile.com/index.php?action=store&item=BrassPressureStove (http://www.stpaulmercantile.com/index.php?action=store&item=BrassPressureStove)
Grime, St. Paul also has some brass kerosene lamps that seem pretty workable.
Both pressure and wick-type.
Grime, the St. Paul Mercantile "Butterfly" kerosene stove looks nothing like my Origo stove.
The stove I've got is a non-pressurized stove that uses denatured alcohol. It's a two-burner stove that's set in the counter-top of my galley. Each burner has a "fuel reservoir" cartridge that's about 7 inches in diameter and 2.5 inches deep, which has a 3-inch (or so) hole in the top; the reservoir is packed with wool, which keeps the alcohol fuel from sloshing, and the "burner hole" has a wide-mesh screen over it to keep the wool in place.
Any camper who has used the Swedish "Trangia" alcohol stove will get the idea immediately. The Origo cartridges take a liter of alcohol and, supposedly, burn for several hours on one such fill. I haven't given them a formal trial, this way, but the fuel will last for quite a while if you put a rubber gasket on top of the "burner hole" in the cartridge between uses.
Alcohol, being an "oxygenated" fuel, gives you less heat (less energy) than a pure hydrocarbon fuel such as propane, butane, or kerosene. Propane is widely heralded as "the best stove fuel system in existence." But a new propane stove might cost me $600, the propane bottles themselves might cost $200 each, the gas-lines (plus solenoid switches and other safety gear) would cost hundreds more, and I'd have to fabricate a propane locker with overflow-drain lines and all ...
I would be surprised if it cost much less than $2000 to fit a propane system into my boat. That would buy me an awful lot of stove alcohol, even at $30 a gallon!
I have a similar stove on my Catalina 27. Try Home Depot or Lowes for the alcohol - I think I paid about $16 a gallon. I think it puts out pretty good heat, even though my wife don't like it.