Two Edits after a few years:
1) I recommend using coconut coir instead of peat moss - it's renewable and does a better job, too! And...
2), WRT 'stirring' - you can just sprinkle a thin layer of dry coir over 'new contributions', if you'd rather not stir. It cuts down on the 'holding capacity' a bit to do this, but still works.
I've been trying different head solutions for a while, nothing has struck me as being a really good solution. I've stopped short of installing a wet head, although I have the fittings and was ready to do so. Before that, I wanted to try the composting idea, because so many people seemed to love it, especially if they came from a 'wet head' background.
But I didn't want to pay $800 or lots more just to try out something I was going to poop on, ;D and might not like.
The key to odor-free composting heads is to easily be able to separate the pee from the poo. There is an outfit out there which sells a thin plastic and styrofoam bowl-only that would do the trick, but even they are selling it for way over $100 - and I'll bet it is less than $2.00 in material cost.
Why does poo disposal have to be *so* expensive? ???
So I put on my inventors hat, and came up with the following solution, which is working really well, for me at least. I have yet to trick a comely young lass into trying it out, but I think it would work for them as well.
The pics are pretty self-explanatory; all you need is a 5 gallon bucket, a funnel, a coffee can, toilet seat, and 2 lbs of peat moss a block of coconut coir. Buy all this stuff new, and you might be out $20. Scrounge it, and you could do this for free.
Very simply, here's what to do: cut a notch in the rim of the 5 gallon bucket, sized to fit the wide end of your funnel, then cut a hole in the lid of the coffee can, sized to fit the skinny end of the funnel. Put peat moss coconut coir in the bucket, get a stick or other long skinny thing to use as a stirrer. When using, make sure your pee goes into the funnel, and afterward, stir your poo into the peat moss coconut coir. I recommend emptying your pee at least every 2 days. The peat moss coconut coir should last 1 person a couple of months/~80 uses, according to the ex$pen$ive composting head websites.
Slightly more complex, I used a heat gun to soften the plastic of the funnel and bend it downward, then trimmed off a few unneeded inches. I also cut 2 small notches in the lip of the funnel so that it kind of 'grips' the plastic of the bucket, and is thus less likely to move.
Future mods will include a stirrer of some sort which won't make you so 'intimate' with the stirring operation. ;)
FWIW, originally I "installed" this head under my companionway. Good fit, the only part protruding into the cabin was a roughly 15" cube that is 12" tall made of wood which the seat sits on. I've since moved it forward, after changing my cabin layout.
Couple more pics, w/seat
Grog, great invention
How long have you been using it? Is it stanky? Is there ventilation?
Maybe you could grow worms in there for fishing.
LOL, Paul - I too thought of the worm possibility. ;D Digging them out would not be so much fun, methinks... :o
No stinky, at all - so long as you keep the pee container cleaned out regular-like. The peat moss smells, but only a very very little, and then the smell is that of peat moss, *not* of poo. I don't even have a vent tube to outside, like the commercial units. With that, you'd have to put your nose in the seat area to even smell the peat, I bet...
WRT usage: been using the peat itself for a month or more, initially just in a plain ol' bucket. Then I made this contraption about 2 weeks ago, for increased comfort. :) It could be much nicer, no gaps and prettier, but I literally slapped it together from scrap wood in an hour or so, with as little actual woodworking as possible.
CharlieJ I ain't... ;D :D
Outstanding, Kurt!
I think we must have been on the same website researching composters because I saw the Hundred Dollar Styro option too. Now I believe everyone has a right to carve out a livin' but they will be hard pressed to get a hondo out of me :o
Ever since Craig posted photos or Faith's new head I've been thinking about gluing up a block of styrofoam and shaping out a form that we could vacuum mold a bowl and funnel over. An added collar that fits a standard 5 gal. bucket that would have a space for a fan, a spot for a stirrer and a flange that would accept the bolts for a standard toilet seat. And that, my friend, is where I start to depart from the KISS principle.
Thanks for the post and update on KM.
Hey! I just noticed you went for the padded seat option! Nice ;D
I can't remember if it was Slocum or who...declared the best solution was a cedarwood bucket and cedarwood lid, with a few inches of seawater inside :^)
Hmmm Looks interesting enough to try.
One question where do you empty the full peat moss?
At sea it's all organic...
On land, bury it?
Windancer:
Actually, it was the legendary Nathanael Greene Herreshoff who preferred a cedar bucket. ;D
Kurt:
Grog for this posting! I've been mulling over possible composting heads for several years. Last season I even measured the pedestal that my current head stands on--it's too small for either of the leading composting heads.
For the past two years I've used a bottle to separate the liquids from the solids, and flushed with fresh water. It helps -- but doesn't work at all when the Admiral deigns to step aboard. Those occasions are, alas, too rare!
One question: Have you taken this contraption to sea? How does it perform when your rail is in the water? Does the peat scatter, along with the you-know-what?
--Joe
Do you thereafter use the peatmoss to feed a secret psychoactive mushroom garden in the helmsman's berth? ;^)
If there are flower beds at your marina, you could discreetly add the peat moss to them, AFTER the season has ended. (Oh, I guess the season doesn't really end down there, does it?)
CORRECTION: It was L. Francis Herreshoff who describes the cedar-bucket head in his classic The Compleat Cruiser: The Art, Practice and Enjoyment of Boating.
--Joe
I did a google search some time ago for such a cedar bucket...only place that made something suitable was an OR company, they weren't giving them away $150^
Tony - Although not quite so 'KISS', that wouldn't be a bad idea... What are your licensing terms and fees? ;) Re: padded seat - great for winter, not so much for summer... Might be converting to a "hardtop" before long. :D
Zen - Common wisdom has it that you should wait ~2 years to use "humanure"-containing compost (from any source - w/maybe less time than that if you actively break it down faster) for edible gardens. But the compost from a 'toilet' like this can be used just fine on flowers, grass, plants, etc etc...
Joe - I haven't yet taken it to sea, but I don't think heeling would be a problem at all. There is a good 12" from the top of the compost to the lip of the bucket, and the material isn't even a bit 'sloshy'. It's just like 8-10" of slightly moist dirt. In a severe broach/knockdown/roll some might get out of this contraption as it sits right now because it is pretty much an experiment, & the top isn't sealed off, but of course that is something I will take care of before getting to a point where that could happen, and it won't be a hard thing to do. :) In fact, the funnel is recessed from the lip of the bucket, so I could actually just put on a normal lid for one of the buckets and that would take care of it.
Wind Dancer - Re; "magic" 'shrooms - No, there is not enough room for cows in the v-berth. ;D
Before using compost from a composting head on an edible garden, I'd read Joe Jenkins book, The Humanure Handbook. I don't really think any thermophilic composting is going to be possible on a boat, so personally, I'd suggest using boat compost purely for non-edible gardening or "seasoning" it longer than 2 years. Humanure makes lovely compost, but composting toilets on boats are light on the composting and heavy on the desiccating.
Haidan - I have no doubt that there are better ways to make this! lol :D My intent was a sort of "proof of concept"; I wanted to see if the actuality of these toilets could live up to the claims I have heard WRT the smell (or lack thereof) from these types of toilets. See below.
Marujo - Right on, just as I've read about these toilets and the 'end-product' (no pun intended ;D )...
Regarding further experience:
Yesterday a friend brought me her laptop to fix, and she waited around while I did so. The job took all day, pretty much, and it was rainy, so she hung out in the vberth and read books while I sat working at the setee. At the end of the day, I asked her if she had ever noticed any smell from the bucket, and her response was an unequivocal "No".
I'm sold on this as the way to go for a marine head...
That is proof enough for me! Hook, line and sinker-lock, stock and (Belizean One)barrel, etc..
You did mention that the main sliding hatch is pretty much always open. Do you think if you moved the stinker to the v-berth a fan would be a necessity? You did state your main hatch is pretty much always open, I;m going to make the mother of all mistakes and assume that has been exhausting the fragrance.
Hey how about this, Kurt, what has the local temperature been like since you switched-uh-facilities?
There just isn't much in the way of 'fragrance', period. Even if when you put your nose over the bucket, as you have to do with this setup when mixing up the compost. ::)
One caveat: The peat must have some moisture in it, for this to work. I am on my second "recharge" of peat. After dumping the first and replacing the peat with fresh, I did notice some smell for a couple of days, and looking at the peat realized it might be dry. The bag of peat had been sitting in my car for a month, and then on the dock for a week or so. So I added a small amount of water - maybe a cup or so - into the bucket to re-moisten the peat, and the smell went away within a day.
If you look at the pics, you can see that there is probably a 2" space between top o' bucket, and top o' toilet/seat, so any odor is going to have a great chance at coming out. I do leave the boat open 95%+ of the time, but yesterday was fairly windless, and the forehatch had 2 layers of no-see-um netting over it, which pretty much stops airflow. That a woman (and a non-smoker, at that) did not detect any odor whatsoever, well, pretty much sums it up. :) I think I can say that the fairer sex is much more capable of detection of those sort of things, without being a prig. ;D
Local temp has been Hot. ;D Day before yesterday, around 11:30AM I looked at the thermo, and it was just below triple-digits. Right now it is 94, and June here was one of the hottest ever.
Another note, regarding flies. I see probably 2-5 flies per day onboard (and swat a similar number; I hate the buggers, they can ruin a good nap... ;) ). Initially I was worried they might breed in the compost, what with the gap at the top, but I don't think this is happening at all. These numbers are not any higher than in the previous 6 or so years I have been at this marina. I think these are just travelers who stop by, or there would be lots more of them.
Last - when I made up this second bucket with fresh peat, I changed my 'poo stirrer' :) from a stiff metal wire to a more efficient design. I took a short length of electrical conduit pipe, cut it vertically for about 5" up from one end, then at the top of that cut about 3/4 of the way through the pipe at 90 degrees to the first cut (making a 'T' shaped cut), then bent out the pipe where possible due to these cuts. This created a sort of a long-handled mini trowel, and it is a much better stirrer.
What a topic... ;D
Never let it be said that SailFar members don't like to "stir it up" ;D
Just to be clear here Kurt...
... you ARE indeed trying to persuade the membership here that your excrement has no odor....
Do I understand this correctly?
L-O-L Craig! Double Grog fer ya! ;D
My rebuttal, because I really should 'clear the air' for posterity, regarding Craigs assertion:
8)
It is not that my poo don't stink, it's just that it *stops* doing so, for Peats sake...
::)
:P
;D
There is healing.
Good first step Kurt, we shall contine this later.....
;)
Great idea!!! I had to take my air head apart to repair the lid that closes. It has a stainless plate that fits in a pocket in the closing lid--it seperated--I "glued it in with caulk--now the lid does not want to stay open--a lot of trouble for the cost of the thing!!! I am happy with the principle of the air head, however in my opinion the quality is not worth the cost of the unit. I will solve the return spring problem, for the cost it should not be necessary.
Right on Cap'n. Did exactly same thing for years in PNW but less elaborate set up. Had several small buckets, used ash from wood stove instead of peat. When buckets were filled I buried composted poop ashore. Had same system ashore and incorporated composted poop in compost pile. Never a problem. Can't wait to read rest of posts...this is gonna be good. Mikey
been following this thread with intrest, since we don not have a so 'called septic' tank onboard.
I just wonder what one's supposed to do, if peat is not to be found where one is..? like the Tuamotus or similar ??? ??? ??? ??? paper, palmleafs, hmmm
It's an interesting idea, for sure, I our dear CapnK is worth a grog or two for his daring experiments!
;D ;D ;D
A little peat moss goes a long way and after more than a year with our self built composting toilet (two people full time live aboard) we still have not used up our first 20 lb bag.
That said where ever you might sail there are people who grow things and people who sell peat moss or coconut husk etc... Not a problem!
Bob
http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
http://fishingundersail.blogspot.com/
http://islandgourmand.blogspot.com/
Quote from: LooseMoose on August 11, 2010, 09:03:28 AM
A little peat moss goes a long way and after more than a year with our self built composting toilet (two people full time live aboard) we still have not used up our first 20 lb bag.
That said where ever you might sail there are people who grow things and people who sell peat moss or coconut husk etc... Not a problem!
Thanks, good input. You're right of course. 90% of the time no probs
Well, I can state the following, with complete humility and while being backed up by 2 sailFar members and a 3rd "contributor' (however extant she may be while not having a bona fide sailFar membership at this particular time) -
No, Craig, my "poo" doesn't stink. ;D ;D ;D
CJ and L *and* Rachel can attest to that fact, having been close aboard the 'head' on Katie Marie.
This is not to say that I am some hyper-exemplary specimen of Human. ;D Nope, not at all!!!
Instead, just that the composting head idea *does* work - and very, VERY well! ;D
I mean - if it can cover up the smell *I* produce, it should work really, REALLY good for "normal folks', right? ;D :o ;D
CJ & L, and Rachel too, have been aboard and sat for a bit rather quite possibly uncomfortably close to where Rockefeller would have been reading the New York Times every AM, if you catch my meaning, and - well, ask THEM - unless they lied to me (not "unpossible", considering how much beer and rum CJ & L can drink... ::) ), there was little or no smell.
PS - No Comments from the Peanut Gallery... :P
I am willing to accept the Capt's word that the head works. While I can confirm that I detected no odor emanating from it, there is not enough rum in the world to get me to see if there was actually anything it.
- posted by the L of CJ and L
Quote from: CharlieJ on August 13, 2010, 02:24:37 PM
I am willing to accept the Capt's word that the head works. While I can confirm that I detected no odor emanating from it, there is not enough rum in the world to get me to see if there was actually anything it.
- posted by the L of CJ and L
Now
that's rich!! ;D
Quote from: CapnK on August 12, 2010, 10:24:44 PM
Well, I can state the following, with complete humility and while being backed up by 2 sailFar members and a 3rd "contributor' (however extant she may be while not having a bona fide sailFar membership at this particular time) -
No, Craig, my "poo" doesn't stink. ;D ;D ;D
CJ and L *and* Rachel can attest to that fact, having been close aboard the 'head' on Katie Marie.
This is not to say that I am some hyper-exemplary specimen of Human. ;D Nope, not at all!!!
Instead, just that the composting head idea *does* work - and very, VERY well! ;D
I mean - if it can cover up the smell *I* produce, it should work really, REALLY good for "normal folks', right? ;D :o ;D
CJ & L, and Rachel too, have been aboard and sat for a bit rather quite possibly uncomfortably close to where Rockefeller would have been reading the New York Times every AM, if you catch my meaning, and - well, ask THEM - unless they lied to me (not "unpossible", considering how much beer and rum CJ & L can drink... ::) ), there was little or no smell.
Folie a deux*
QuotePS - No Comments from the Peanut Gallery... :P
We can not move forward as long as you deny help... ;)
* Folie a deux:.... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folie_%C3%A0_deux)from the French for "a madness shared by two") is a rare psychiatric syndrome in which symptoms of a delusional belief are transmitted from one individual to another...
Hey Kurt, can we get an update on how this has been working for you? Assuming your still using it?
Quote from: nowell on November 08, 2010, 08:39:36 AM
Hey Kurt, can we get an update on how this has been working for you? Assuming your still using it?
He has been having trouble posting, my theory is that it has to do with the build up of methane below decks....
:o
;D
Still working fine. Works so well, in fact, that it is the way I will go (no pun intended ;)) for my 'septic system' from here on out...
Will be making an improved version down the road, one that is:
1: sealed better - not due to smells, but because of flies - smell is not a problem, at all, ever, whereas with this cheap set up I have had fly 'invasions' twice during the summer - solved by changing the peat, and prevented from happening again after the second time by using a piece of no-see-um netting that goes over the top of the bucket. Remember - this rig is basically wide-open at the top, without that netting. Easy fix, for not much of a problem...
2: has a better 'mixing' solution. This is an upright bucket, thus the lower corner is at 90* to the walls, and a mixing paddle cannot get all the way into that area. Plan on making a 'bucket' that is round-bottomed, to solve that problem. Crude illustration of first idea for this attached...
This sounds like something I want to do. I do have a question about the pee that is separated. Is dumping this overboard considered a "discharge" in a "No-discharge" zone?
Steve
Steve - First, IANAL (I am not a lawyer - but I did stay on my boat last night... ;) ), but the best answer I have seen for this question is that the regs specify that discharge can only contain a certain number of particulate solids per quantity (don't know the numbers, & guess they may vary from locale to locale). Urine contains none, so argued that way, it would seem to be legal wherever you can/could discharge.
If a place is designated "No Discharge", though, I imagine that they mean "0", no discharging, period, so if a government functionary/representative saw you dumping something, they might press the issue.
IMCO, of course. Others may have a better take...
Sssssooooooo........
... from a bucket to a box huh?
Kinda like something I have seen before......
might try a pet store, down the 'cat supplies' isle... ;D
Thanks, CapnK. I did a quick search for "no discharge regulation."
EPA New England's website refers to: "treated and untreated sewage." I'll see what else I can find.
The next prototype;
(http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/public/2wdcL1fw5740IF5dm8DRJN8Pvq7uD2BFGo1WyXyIeXbLe8Wt5tT89txPsSpyICycvNwu9kDb3yymAuJ7UCa8I0Xrkimj9JhQvnmYpYdXmv373LxNF0YHj5VjTJqd5O1PF9QVC9t6YhJc5Y470JbQ)
Final (more advanced) model (it's even self cleaning);
(http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/public/5gTCBJC_zYTaNg4Qp0dhebPr_VJn1qgmsSSHxGEuu2YbZHlKPvnP0f1n2lyM3kxELuqEP8ySo_1MTI42OOwWSbyALIl_lCeMilf9uhfHaQ6rlEH5tL2m3yR0BBLvEK6imAYgL8-NAYzn1U_qNEHjyaX0R4Ek63TOuK9gQqgmU7y7jg)
\
;D
Umh! I think the "crew" might take exception to this one.
I don't think the advanced model will compost.
:P
INALE (I'm Not A Lawyer Either), but I believe that dumping liquid waste in a no-discharge zone (NDZ) is contrary to the law. I think that even peeing over the side is illegal in a NDZ.
That said, I know of a certain sailor (I know him very, very well, but would have to plead the Fifth Amendment before going further) who separates liquid from solid wastes by carrying an empty laundry detergent bottle with him, in the cockpit or in the head compartment. On day sails, this unnamed person brings the liquid waste home and dumps it in the toilet like a good citizen.
But if he's at sea for several days, well ...
--Joe
;D
I know of a small cruiser that has a small red coffe can in the cockpit.
Funny story about that. We know a guy who cruises on a small trawler. He keeps an old coffee cup on deck just outside the helm for that use when underway.
One day while in a marina, someone stole the cup!! He cracks up thinking about it's new use ;D
**Warning! Grossness follows! Read and upchuck at your own risk!** At a marina in Jax a l/a dock neighbor on a houseboat had his macerator go kerplooie, and his ingenuity of the moment created a temporary porta-potty out of a huge battered army size stewpot with a toilet seat on top. Months later! his toilet prob was resolved, and he threw a football bash where beer flowed freely and partygoers were encouraged to help themselves to his homemade chili...from an unmistakable receptacle.
Thanks Kurt. I really like the design, and simplicity of it. I think with some nice dress up, you could have an entire system that would be simple, with a nice appearance, and functional!
Hello, new here.
This was the first thread on this board that I read, with keen interest, last night. I then Registered.
I'm sold, and will be putting together a system like yours. GROG to ya.
Porta-Potty just has to go.
Here's another consideration that weighs in favor of a composting toilet:
Sheriff's deputies in Volusia County, Florida, have been boarding out-of-state boats passing through on the ICW, demanding (sometimes at gunpoint) to see the overboard discharge, sometimes putting dye in the heads, pumping 'em hard enough to get dye to come through the vents, and assessing fines of $250 or more.
Show 'em that you have no overboard discharge at all, and they'll have to leave you alone. Just be polite about it.
(Info courtesy of Cruisersnet.com -- I've not been down there yet myself.)
--Joe
P.S. Happy Thanksgiving to all!
I read that Oldrig, and it should be noted the ship boarded apparently was under sail and the cops boarded and inspected the head at gunpoint, after a crew member ran down below against orders. Story goes on to say that there was no discharge, but the Officer (gotta love em) wrote the guy a ticket anyway. Nazi-like in every way. Very interesting story.
Interesting topic. I wouldn't have considered a composting head much of an option.
Joe, That isn't going to make cruisers feel welcome in that area of Florida, is it...?
Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving to you, and all, too.
-Jim
Most interesting story. I wonder at the REAL tale. Laura and I have traveled the entire coast of Florida without a SINGLE instance of law inforcement officials being other than polite and reasonable. Either for heads or anchoring. We did change to a pumpable porta potti in Marathon, but that was due to both a harbor regulation (which we felt reasonable) and our own decision to do so. We weren't FORCED into it.
By the way, since we learned to USE the chemicals, we've had little difficulties with that head- and we sleep over it.
And we have had no problem finding places to pump out. In Florida, we never paid a dime for that, other than as part of a mooring fee.
Charlie:
There's a Sheriff's side to the tale and it's as reasonable sounding as it gets, from their side of the story. However, the method of boarding ... and followup - pathetic - at the officer level. Link's on other board.
Anyway ...
Haven't been boarded yet, so they could check out my poop!!!! ;)
CapnK, I raise me mug to ya!!!!! I'm pulling the porta-potty today, after I throw a big big bird on the fire.
Welcome aboard, Carl! (& Grog! of course)
Glad to have you here, & I hope your composter story works out as good as mine has! :)
Thanks Capn, glad to be here.
>Future mods will include a stirrer of some sort which won't make you so 'intimate' with the stirring operation.<
Perhaps a simple way of stirring things up would be to have the peat in a strong plastic bag suspended inside the bucket and have a piece of wood anchored to the bucket with a hinge between the bag and the bucket. A rope is attached to the piece of wood and whenever you want to stir things up just pull on the chord.
A bit of trial and error would be needed as to the size and shape of the wooden paddle. Having a heavy duty plastic bag might have an added benefit that if something goes wrong you could wrap it all up and dispose of it rather than having to clean it up.
Love the concept.
Oded
(been lurking all along ;-)
kishonyviolins.com
Hey, if the - errh - container is tight enough, as in very tight. One could possibly just use the well known teqnique as with a cocktail shaker! ::)
'Shaken, not stirred' as opposed to James Bond's famous comment. ::)
Honey, could I have a Fry MArtInI please? :P
Wow, Oded - a blast from the past! ;D Wondered where you'd gone off to... ;) Interesting idea, having the container flex for mixing... Will have to ponder that one!
Magnus - ***VERY TIGHT*** would definitely be the operative word(s) with that technique. ;D
Use a paint shaker as a base....? ;D
$6 LUXURY composting head!
I used a kitty litter bucket that was laying around,
I cut a separator out of the lid,
then heat molded it to have some curve,
then drew a line where I wanted to put the separator.....
then I took some 316 pin stock I had laying around and used a propane torch to bend it for a stir stick. That took a few times to get it right....
inserted that into two holes at opposing ends of the bucket......
I then 4200ed the separator to the bucket.
MAKE SURE YOU SAND/SCRATCH/SCORE THE SMOOTH PLASTIC BUCKET (I promise, make sure)
Then I drilled a hole at the bottom of the separator and threaded a pex fitting, one that you can unscrew a little and pull the tube out....
I ran another pex fitting into a nalgene bottle fir the pee jug, this removes for dumping easily.
Then I installed a LUXURY elongated lid!
a few wood blocks to hold it in place....it lifts off easily.
viola!
The admiral and I used this at home for about two weeks....and were very happy with it....then it started to get really damp....then wet.... ???
so I investigated....
remember when I said to score/sand/scratch the smooooooooth bucket surface?
yup...it had come off a little and was leaking out of the separator into the compost. :o
I dumped it, (cleaned it!) scored/sanded/scratched the line and reglued...I did a better job shaping the 4200 that time and got absolutely no place for a drop off pee to collect. the flow is nice and strait into the bottle now! 8)
We tried it again for about two weeks before our winter migration....
the thing does not smell! You can kneel next to it and not smell anything! ;D
I'm so impressed.
Future things I may address:
I could work on the stirring mechanism...there are a few places that don't get folded in...but I think I may cut a fiberglass batten to fit in for extra stirring every few days...There is a crank handle on the front of the bucket for stirring, and it does a good enough job, but there is just that little area....
Bug hat! I saw a fly poking around the lid....and if he were to find out what a wonderful lovely place that is.....well....I think I'll make a noseeum shower cap kinda thing.
Maybe ventilation.... I want to use it more before I commit....but I found some 1.57 inch computer fans that draw like .08 amps...so it would take roughly 2 amp hours a day....I was thinking of putting a hole in the side of the potty and using some shop vac hose to vent it. This however will add to complexity, in dumping the potty.
Saw this a little while back and thought it might be an interesting "add" to this subject:
Poop-Eating Worms Power the Eco-Toilets of the Future (http://motherboard.vice.com/2012/10/5/poop-eating-worms-power-the-eco-toilets-of-the-future--2)
Now, if that's not an attention-getting headline, I just don't know what is... ??? 8)
WRT the worms, I think it will take some experimentation - with just the '
output' ::) of 1 or 2 people, might this become something of a "closed system" if you had enough worms?
Yes, I will be trying it... :D
(Apologies in advance to PETA sympathizers, on behalf of the worms soon to live (hopefully) in my forepeak... hehe)If I can find a way so that it works at the dock, perhaps then it will work at sea as well, and we can rid ourselves of carrying eatra peat/coir, and the need for regular emptying of our quiet, smell-free "terlits"... ;D
------ Below is the relevent part of the article-----
QuoteThe poop industry is ripe for disruption, and a French company is offering one solution: Use turd-eating worms to compost waste right at the source.
The company, Ecosphere Technologies, has developed an outhouse that, rather than relying on chemicals like a port-a-john, relies on about a pound of red wiggler worms that are native to Europe. A new installation in Quebec uses imported worms, placed inside of a mixture of dung and straw underneath to toilet, to devour feces delivered to them by a conveyor belt system. (When someone uses the toilet, pee filters through sand to wash away, while a pedal allows the user to transport their poo to the worm space.)
?A worm eats almost its own weight in food each day,? worm farmer Helene Beaumont told the AFP during a demo at a golf course ?And the more poop there is to eat, the more they reproduce.?
The whole system uses no water or electricity, and a series of passive vents allegedly keeps the toilet smelling great. The company claims it can be used 10,000 times without servicing, which is far better than what a port-a-potty can boast, although with a current price tag of $40k for the worm system, port-a-potties are still a lot cheaper.
Just curious, what if the worms get sea sick and start upchucking? ??? ;) :)
Quote from: Sunset on October 19, 2012, 11:32:53 AM
Just curious, what if the worms get sea sick and start upchucking? ??? ;) :)
As long as they do it quietly, I won't mind... ;D
Quote from: CapnK on October 19, 2012, 11:11:41 AM
Saw this a little while back and thought it might be an interesting "add" to this subject:
Poop-Eating Worms Power the Eco-Toilets of the Future (http://motherboard.vice.com/2012/10/5/poop-eating-worms-power-the-eco-toilets-of-the-future--2)
Now, if that's not an attention-getting headline, I just don't know what is... ??? 8)
WRT the worms, I think it will take some experimentation - with just the 'output' ::) of 1 or 2 people, might this become something of a "closed system" if you had enough worms?
Yes, I will be trying it... :D (Apologies in advance to PETA sympathizers, on behalf of the worms soon to live (hopefully) in my forepeak... hehe)
If I can find a way so that it works at the dock, perhaps then it will work at sea as well, and we can rid ourselves of carrying eatra peat/coir, and the need for regular emptying of our quiet, smell-free "terlits"... ;D
This was new to me, though I have heard of composting worms fr horsedung and such....
Keep'em working guys! :o 8)
This will cause me to rethink use of the phrase "I'll just go off and eat worms..."
great info though.
Worth considering if you can get a stable system going... plus you'd not lack for readily on-hand fish-bait.
Quote from: tomwatt on October 19, 2012, 06:44:38 PM
This will cause me to rethink use of the phrase "I'll just go off and eat worms..."
great info though.
Worth considering if you can get a stable system going... plus you'd not lack for readily on-hand fish-bait.
Double duty for everything on the boat is a SailFar mantra ;)
How about some updates from liveaboards who are using the $10/20 toilets? I'm experimenting with it on my boat but not living aboard. No odor problem.
Steve
We've been running with our home built composting toilet for several years now of full time use and all I can really say is that it still works just fine and does not smell...
Wish more things on the boat would work as well!
Bob
After a year or so of hiatus from actually doing any work of note on the boat (been trying out/living with my final draft "ultimate cabin layout"), the past month or so I've been starting back up with little projects to get the ol' inertia ball rolling again...
Since I first posted on this topic, the head has moved from under the companionway to the ex-vberth area. There, 'til now, it has resided in a narrow slot amidships, between two outer areas roughed in as stowage and formerly a high v-berth. While it provided for a ton of stowage, it wasn't very "user friendly" when on the throne, due to the tight quarters. As the stowage is really more than I think I'll need, I've decided to open things up a bit, and looking today at the CD25D layout, decided realized that once again old Carl was right on in his design thinking. So I am going to configure the area much like that. Where that has relevance to *this* thread, is in 2 somethings that came to me today as I stared at spaces and places and envisioned...
1 - I can/will be custom building the entire head (with the exception of the actual seat ;D), including the composting compartment. So instead of trying to come up with a 'stir system' that works in a certain space, I have the flexibility to design the space *around the stirring action*, the most complex part of the whole system. Eureka. Paradigm shift. ...And Back to the drawing board, BUT I already have some ideas about what might work...
2 - Dealing with the pee has always seemed to me to be the drawback to these types of heads. The pee bucket is either so small that it has to be emptied very frequently, or it is large enogh to go a few days between dumps, and thus begins to develop a rather distinctive smell...
Suggestions I have seen to combat this include things like adding some brown sugar to the bucket (??? I have no idea why that would work, but it must, to some degree...) - which means other and more stuff to carry aboard and deal with and which adds to complexity. Wouldn't it be great if the pee could just go overboard by itself... And it hit me - Why not?
It would be easy enough to have a small thru-hull right there, and when in areas allowed, simply connect the pee tube to the thru-hull for ultimate convenience. It would be as simple as attaching a small hose to the funnel and opening the seacock, with no more toting a liquid you REALLY don't want to smell :-[, much less spill :o, out through and then up and then off of the boat.
It is a hole in the boat, something I really would like to avoid when possible, but all things considered, I think it would be worth it in the long run.
We have an Airhead and I second the pee problem. I have tried the sugar thing, but didn't notice any difference. Still stinks. I keep a spray bottle of cleaning strength vinegar with a few drops of lavender oil and spray the toilet and the pee jug after emptying. That helps keep the head from smelling like a cat box (assuming you prefer the smell of vinegar to the smell of ammonia). Nothing will make the experience of emptying the pee jug pleasant, though.
We have an Airhead, came with the boat, that we love. We keep a bottle of Tea Tree Oil by the head. A couple of drops after peeing helps.
I have been using an AirHead since 2005, and I will say that one of its best features is the constantly running computer fan that sucks air through the head and vents it up on deck. Not only keeps the composting process working well, but makes a huge improvement in the quality of the air in the boat. I just leave it running 24/7 since it burns so little juice and the solar panels keep up. The current fan has been on since late 2006.
If you were going to build a "compost" toilet for a small Toyota motorhome instead of a sailboat, would you still make one that separates the pee from the poop? I'm asking because many people, including the Humanure guy Jim Jenkins, says its totally unnecessary to separate the stuff.
Thanks
Steve
I think most people separate it because pee tends to accumulate quickly and stink to high heck. It's also pretty easy to find an innocuous spot to dump a pee jug. Poop on the other hand doesn't smell much as long as it's dessicated in some peat moss/saw dust/coco coir and accumulates slowly. It's a lot easier to find an appropriate way to dispose of a bucket of poop if you only have to do so once every couple months. I would separate the pee so I wouldn't have to smell the horrible smell of pee and well-hydrated poop. The pee diverter on our Airhead got clogged with a piece of coco coir once and the resulting slurry was much worse than the two separate materials.
I would ask yourself how long it would take to fill your container with pee, poop, and organic material and if you have a good place to dispose of that slurry later. A little motorhome or sailboat composting head is not going to have the mass/conditions to heat up and kill pathogens. Unless you have land with space to actually compost it away from insect/animal vectors or bury it, it's pretty hard to come up with what to do with it, especially midway through a road trip. The problem will come up more often if you decide not to separate the pee.
Quote from: magentawave on June 28, 2013, 03:43:52 PM
If you were going to build a "compost" toilet for a small Toyota motorhome instead of a sailboat, would you still make one that separates the pee from the poop? I'm asking because many people, including the Humanure guy Jim Jenkins, says its totally unnecessary to separate the stuff.
Thanks
Steve
Steve,
Yes, I would. The primary concern aboard a boat (or an RV) is minimizing odor. I know from using porti potties, that urine and fecal matter combined stink. The separaton really really helps minimize odors. I have installed a natures heAd on my boat, And just finished cruising for 6 months aboard a boat with an Airhead. I really like the natures head, but believe making one yourself is a great idea. The only time I had any odor was when I accidentally added too much water to the compost.
I actually use the Joe Jenkins system on land. Pee + poop + lots of cover material (peat moss, leaf mold, etc.) in a 5 gallon bucket that gets emptied into a large compost heap and covered with mulch straw. This works great and doesn't have any odor, but does need lots of cover material and a large compost heap to be successful. Not practical on a boat at all due to the large amounts of cover material needed, i.e., stowage, nor the likely lack of a suitable compost pile to transfer to. Might be more liable to work with a motor home, but only if you had access to friendly compost piles nearby...
YMMV, but I can "fill" a 5 gallon bucket in about a week almost by myself this way.
CapnK and JWalker - Are you guys still using your self-built compost toilets? Have you made any modifications since then?
No major modifications to functionality; I did find a better bucket, a large aluminum bakers mixing bucket from a used restaurant supply house. It tapers at the bottom, but is otherwise about the same dimensions. The taper makes for more efficient "blending". :D
I also have gone to using coir, just because it stores better on the boat. I buy a large brick of it from Amazon, not being able to find it locally.
Did you cut into the bucket to fit the funnel?
I am wondering if there is another way to collect urine, without cutting into the pail. It would probably mean the seat is a bit higher up. Maybe a flattish funnel with a side drain.
I am building a composting toilet on my 28 ft sailing boat. Urine will be saved in 10 litres plastic containers to be emptied in harbour toilets. The sea is big, but I don't want to pollute it. I will use worms in my two compost containers and let one rest while using the other. The toilet will be in the front part of the boat, separated by a water tight wall. Has anyone tried worms to take care of the solid waste?
Welcome Vita_Vera. :)
I have not heard of anyone using worms in their on-board composting head, but am not that knowledgeable about it? I have heard of municipal waste-treatment plants using bacteria in digester tanks as part of the process.
http://water.usgs.gov/edu/wwvisit.html
I don't know whether any similar method has been tried in composting heads.
Am just beginning to learn about composting heads, but am encouraged by some of the reports, especially as it relates to self-sufficiency/independence for those anchoring out.
Please keep us postED on your progress and experiences.
What kinds of worms would you use? Regular earth worms that hang out in the back yard?
For what it is worth, I don't add anything except peat moss (I'll probably try that coconut fiber stuff next time as I believe it stores more compactly). Not counting paper, most deposits become unrecognizable within a day or two. While it isn't exactly decomposed in that time, it is inoffensive. Paper takes quite a while, and if we are spending more than a couple days at a time aboard, we typically dispose of it separately. Adding lots of paper products tends to fill the head much more quickly, and it takes much longer to break down. Perhaps worms would speed this process?