Koster 25/ allegro 27

[evantica]

Hi again... Want to hear your oppinion about this boat I looked at, for my offshore voyage. It's a K 25, Koster/ like the Allegro 27... but it's build in wood. I've heard a lot about wooden boats, waste of time and so on.. But maybye I can put some epoxi on the hull??? what do you think. It's also a my price level, and I do like the this koster hull/ model.

[Norm]

I see a number of small wooden yachts voyaging through the Caribbean.  I think there is a balance between wood and GRP.  The element that is often more important is can you fix it?  Can you maintain it?

What ruins most voyagers at every size is deferred maintenance due to either a lack of money or a lack of skill.  If you can keep it running... you can keep voyaging.

The K25 looks like a handy craft.  It reminds me of Trekka, Soranino, and Pardy's first.  All wood boats.  All well regarded voyagers.  All in the hands of knowledgeable owners.  My opinion is that it is the "knowledgeable owner" part that led to success.

Keep in touch.
Norm

[evantica]

Thanks norm! I'm thinking of the carribian waters, and the "shipworms" in the warm waters. that can destroy every wooden boat??? something i read, and heard of many??? true or not?...I belive I can fix such a boat, but those tropical worms ...hm...what about the epoxi idea??? It would solve the dilema?!

[Godot]

Wooden boats, like any boat, requires periodic love and care.  Unfortunately, should the boat be neglected, it will fall into critical disrepair much quicker than a plastic boat.  Personally, I love wood boats.

Regarding the Toredo, I think if you maintain the bottom paint you will probably be ok.  Certain types of wood (teak) are less vulnerable, others more so.  Paint the bottom every year or so and you will probably be ok. 

I don't think I would epoxy coat the boat.  To get the best results you would need to put fiber glass on as well; but I suspect glassing a plank on frame boat would be troublesome in the long run.

[Norm]

The new bottom paints are pretty good.  I doubt that epoxy is the answer. 

There are two good sources of information:  Budget Marine and Island Water World are Caribbean chandlers.  Call either one in St Maarten and ask what they recommend.

The boat is a stunner! 

Next week, I am back in the BVI and will ask our local wood doctor in Nanny Cay what he thinks.  Will relay the remarks and suggestions later.

Norman

[evantica]

Gordot/ Norm, I do apriciate your answers. I will check up the tip you mentioned Norm...And I do like what you sead about, keep it  as it is, instead of the Epoxi/ fibr. will save a whole lot of work/ money. If you find something about this subjekt let me know. far winds... cpt. Hakan in cold Swe

[Oldrig]

Capt. Hakan:

That is a beautiful boat--and nothing takes to the water like a well-founded wooden boat.

But I would agree with what others have said: Wood is wonderful if you can keep it maintained--and that maintenance will take time.

One thing that worries me a bit about your boat is the teak decking: What will the constant sun of the Caribbean do to the deck and the deck seams?

And, like others, I'd recommend against coating the boat with epoxy. When fiberglass first came out, a lot of people coated their wooden boats (including me with a wooden Sailfish). Once water gets between the epoxy and the wood, and it will, you're creating a perfect incubator for rot.

Either stay with pure wood--and be prepared to do perform regular maintenance--or look for a GRP boat.

That said, I have a neighbor on Cape Cod who lives aboard a wooden Crocker-built centerboard yawl. He careens the boat several times during the summer, recaulks leaky seams and slaps on paint where needed. The boat doesn't look very pretty, but it still floats, and it survives being iced in during the winter.

--Joe

[CharlieJ]

I should point out here- there is a VAST difference between "coating the wood with epoxy" and "putting on a layer of Fiberglass". NOT the same thing at all

The first is a sealer and WILL protect the wood to a certain extent. The second (glassing) is a very labor intensive, and complex operation. Done correctly it's great, but on a carvel planked boat it's a BIG job to do correctly.

I agree though- on an older planked wooden boat, I'd not epoxy or glass. It's worked fine for however long the boat has lived and properly maintained will continue to do so.

Remember- the Hiscock's went around the world several times on Wanderer III- a wooden vessel. She's till sailing today.

And BOTH of the boats sailed by the Pardey's are planked wooden boats.

If you understand the material and are willing to do the maintenance, a planked wooden hull would be just fine anywhere. Provided of course it HAS been properly maintained up to this point.

[CapnK]

She's a pretty vessel, Hakan.

As far as covering the hull with composites / glass, there is a trick that the local fisherman and shrimpers use here to extend the life of their wooden hulled boats that seems, to me at least, to be the only way to go about it if it something you are going to do.

I don't know all the particulars (though I could ask around and find out for sure if you'd like), but it goes something like this:

• They strip the hull of paint, back to bare wood, fixing any structural issues that need attention.


• The entire hull is then covered in a coating of a polyurethane sealant/adhesive like Sikaflex or 5200.


• Fiberglass mat is then pressed into that, while the adhesive still wet. The adhesive bonds to the mat on one side, and the hull on the other.


• The dry side of the mat (the out-side) is then saturated with resin like in a 'normal' layup, and woven glass cloth is put on over that to add some structural strength.

The entire hull is covered in this manner, from the keel to the gunnels.

I have seen many old wooden boats treated this way, and while they may not have a "Bristol" quality look to them, they are out on the water working nearly every day. From what I understand, the polyurethane adhesive, besides bonding the whole thing together, allows the wooden hull to 'float' inside the glass hull while remaining bonded; the adhesive has enough flexibility that it can handle the shrinkage of the wood as it dries.

I would imagine that this process adds a good amount of weight to the boat. You would also get quite a bit of strength and impact resistance added, since you are basically creating an "exohull" around the existing hull. It would not be a cheap solution, nor quick - but it is cheaper and quicker than building a new boat, which is why I imagine the locals would do it at all. ;)

[CharlieJ]

Saw that done in a yard in Galveston- only over an aluminum deck house because it was built slightly too small.

Brand new, 3.5 million dollar tour boat

A 5 gallon bucket of 5200 was $900 - Wholesale price :o :o The job took two buckets.

[evantica]

thanks for your answers. I shecked up how to solve the "tropicalworm" problem,  Paint the "underbody/hull" with copper paint, that is the cure they sead??!! what do you think about it? ( probably need somthing more "fancy", "stronger" than this?)

[boatyardpirates]

If wood was first discovered today it would be hailed as the discovery of the millenium.  What a beautiful yacht.  If she fits buy her.  A good survery can tell you all you need to know.  Unlike steel, aluminum, fiberglass,ect.  Wood can be fixed in any far flung port of the world.  Ali

[Amgine]

Most bottom paints today use copper, Evantica. The copper is poisonous to most marine invertebrates, including the teredo worm which is infamous for drilling into wood planks on boats.

It's important on all boats to keep a good layer of bottom paint, but on a wooden boat in the tropics it's even more important. A serious underwater scratch through the paint needs to be attended to as quickly as possible.

As Norm suggested, contact a chandlery or a boatyard in the area you plan on sailing to find out what is a good bottom paint in that area.

[Norm]

oldrig makes a good point.

The sun is devastating to wooden decks and everything else.  An awning... bow to stern... is a critical piece of kit. 

The old timers, the guys I sailed for in the 60s and 70s said to wash the deck every day with sea water, never fresh.  The humidity in the tropics is high.  the salt helps to hold the moisture levels steady, prevent shrink/swell stress.

Still... you have to go sailing!

[AdriftAtSea]

IIRC, salt also helps prevent the wood from rotting... salt is deadly to most bacteria in higher concentrations... :)

[evantica]

the koster was in rotten condition, so I passed. appriciate the help & support from you all. I'm a bit wiser now.

[Norm]

I guess that means you want to go sailing in lieu of going to repair the sailboat!

Sailboats are like lovers.  You only have so much time.  Spend it with the one's who love you back.