sailFar.net

Here is a great link ..great story..read her thoughts   ht+p://www.solo-sailor.c0m/SailingLinks.htm

Edit: CapnK - Site now dead. Link to the site @ Wayback Machine (http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://solo-sailor.com) has no data as of 12/09.

I have gone up through Page 8 of this thread editing posts wherein links to the site were included. I left the link text in, just broke the syntax so they won't work/be clickable.

On one side of that web-page seh is talking Flicka, on another a brand new Nor Sea 27'.
She also has a posting in the log book posted May 7 this year, she is really fast

Nice site anyway  :D

I caught that too...seems she had a norsea 27 ordered but switched and bought the Flicka. It is the last one made..near 'perfect' condition, but they were asking $75000 for it !!! WOW !! I guess it was still WAY less than a new 27fter and a 'deal' is in the eyes of the beholder.

Their exceptionally high production costs and selling prices is the main reason that they no longer make the Flicka as a production boat.  The market for pocket bluewater cruisers is rather limited.

Quote from: Frank on April 23, 2007, 09:16:54 AM
I caught that too...seems she had a norsea 27 ordered but switched and bought the Flicka. It is the last one made..near 'perfect' condition, but they were asking $75000 for it !!! WOW !! I guess it was still WAY less than a new 27fter and a 'deal' is in the eyes of the beholder.

Oooops!  Now that´s something. In Sweden you could by similar boats - but built in the sixties-seventies and in need of a refurbish - for € 2000 and upwards, definitely a 'renovated' example for under €10000 (about 14000 USD) 

Anyone interested in a joint-venture BoatSell business cross the Atlantic?   ;D

BTW, No one biuilds anything like that here anymore. The market demand is for 'RV* type boats... Bavaria and you know those high topsides... etc. etc.  :P 8)

Gentlemen:

I see several posts about my daughter, Heather, and her upcoming around-the-world voyage in her Flicka 20.

First, as the the price, she paid $11,000 less than the asking price, and I rpomise you, as a deep water sailor of more than a half century - she got an amazing bargain!  The elderly physician and his wife who bought this boat new at the factory, the last one made #434, always kept the boat at their yacht club in Newport Beach - along with their other much larger sailing yacht.  The Flicka was just sort of a toy with them, and for the full 9 years they owned it, they kept it at that yacht club, under a full boat cover.  And now listen to this:  Once a week, they had a professional come down and detail the boat, from stem to stern.  Everything.  Polish all the bronze; renew the varnish before it needed it, etc., etc.  And once a month they had a SCUBA diver come by and clean off the bottom.  The boat was almost never used.  They would come down to the yacht club in the evenings, remove the cover, watch their little TV aboard, cover the boat back up, and go home at bed time.

The sink had never been used.  The stove had never been used.  The upholstery looks and smells like it is a week old.

The boat is utterly flawless in every minute detail.

The riggers who came down to the dock to get the boat ready for trucking here to Florida did not believe it was a used boat at all!

Bruce Bingham, the desinger of the Flicka came here to my home and helped Heather work on the boat on two occasion.  Ask Bruce.  He'll tell you this is the finest and newest Flicka on Earth.

Plus, as you can see from Heather's web site (I guess I'm not allowed to put her URL in here?) we have spent six months really preparing the wee vessel for the sea.  Every detail.  Just for example, we have even arranged Heather's sea anchor assembly in such a fashion that she can deploy her sea anchor in ten seconds!  That is ready for sea!

If I had one single minute reservation about Heather or her boat, I would not allow her to go off on this voyage.  But I have none.  She has the boat and the soul it takes!

Thank you very much for all your kind words to her!

Dr. Gene Neill
Mayo, Florida

Gene-

Glad to see you took up my invitation. :)  Welcome to Sailfar.net.  This website advocates the idea of sailing far in small sailboats... we don't believe that a 40' sailboat isn't necessary to make serious passages.

Hey- OF COURSE you can post her website here.. Some of us have apparently "missed the boat" on her I for one would love to read it.

I can remember when the Flicka FIRST came out, as a design winner in Rudder Magazine, as a ferrocement design ;D ;D

I dreamed of one way back then. They later even had a set of forms you could cut out and assemble, with gauze and plaster I believe, to make a "ferro" model of her.

Grog to ya', Dr. Gene - and Welcome Aboard!

By all means, post her site address - no problem at all.

If she has the time/the inclination to join us for a bit prior to shoving off, of course she's welcome too. :)

And I don't think you'll hear *any* argument here about her boat being too small, etc etc... ;)

T he link to your daughters website was posted back in october under the external links thread.  I checked out the website then.

I wish her success and luck and look forward to following her progress.

Okay, thanks for telling me I'm allowed to post Heather's web site.

You really need to check it out - she's getting thousands of hits, so at least a lot of folks enjoy it.

And if you read it carefully, the real Heather begins to become obvious to you - you can see and feel her honesty, dedication and ability.  She's not just one more air-headed dreamer or record seeker.  This is a young lady who built up a very profitable real estate brokerage all by herself; her daughter is graduating college with a double major in Russian language and history; her son is soon going to graduate from the United States Naval Academy; she was appointed by governor Bush, the former governor of Florida to his Advisory Board; the United States Naval Academy appointed her as a Blue and Gold Officer for the Academy; she's a leader in the Rotary.  And, at 43 she simply wants to spend the rest of her life "dancing with the Dolphins", as she puts it.

Go read her site at www.solo-sailor.com

And you'll see me in there working on her boat...

Reef early!
Gene

lol Sounds like quite a young lady.


And of course you AREN'T a really proud papa huh??

;D ;D

Gene -

I am having fun reading through the last few months of prep work on the boat. It sure looks like y'all have done "Flight..." up very well!

One thing I noticed, on the Oct-Nov page, with regard to the fuel vent hose invention, pictured below.

(http://www.solo-sailor.com/images/DadsVentInvention2.jpg)

It looks like you've used white zip-ties to attach the hose to the bowsprit, and that caught my eye. The white ties do not have any UV protection included in what they are made of (nylon, IIRC), and will last only a year or two before becoming extremely brittle and breaking very easily.

I have heard that the black colored ties *DO* have a UV resistance, and other experience has shown that they at last quite a bit longer out in the sun than the white ones. Seems counterintuitive, that. :)

Anyway, if they are still in use, I thought that you or Heather might want to replace those before she leaves, if you haven't done so already.

Agree- we have (had) white zip ties on the bow pulpit holding the bow light wires to the pulpit. They've been there for about 18 months and Laura brushed against them the other day and wiped five of them right off. So brittle they just crumbled. I'm switching to black wire ties there, but for that fuel vent there might be something even better.

Lately I've been using a tool called a "Clamptite" which makes clamps from wire, in place on the fitting, using stainless safety wire. I'm gradually replacing the clamps on my fuel line fittings, since we seem to have a horrible time finding REAL stainless hose clamps, with REAL stainless screws.

The only thing I would caution you about using this tool, is to be careful to not get the clamp TOO tight- you can easily deform the underlying hose fitting with it.

Here's a link to the web site. My friend Chuck from Duckworks gave me mine- I love it ;D

http://www.clamptitetools.com/

Yes, you're right of course, the white Nylon wire ties need to go.  When I attached them, I actually only meant for them to be temporarly fasteners, but we simply haven't gotten around to replacing them.

But we will - I promise.

And thank you for the reminder.

Heather's out in the Gulf of Mexico right this moment, on her way home from her 165 mile shakedown cruise.  She sailed down to Crystal River, to get all the antifouling paint sand/water blasted off.  Then she got three new coats of Interlux Interprotect 2000E and four coats of red Interlux Ultra-Kote antifouling paint.

Her #434 Flicka, by the way, and I don't know about the earlier Flickas, was laid up with Vinylester resin, rather than the poor Polyester.  And the factory did give her boat one coat of Interprotect 2000E.  So, after nine years in the water, he had not a single sign of any osmosis nor blisters.  What a relief!

Thanks again!

Gene

Hi guys -

I just did some research, and learned there is a cable tie called TEFZEL, which is the only cable tie allowed to be used inside nuclear power plants here in the states.  It is totally UV resistant, and has some amazing temperature resistance of something like 390degrees F or some such thing! 

TEFZEL only comes in a light blue color, but it's not bad at all.

And, since I have white cable ties all over the electronic equipment on the stern of Heather's boat, I just ordered an entire bundle of 13" TEFZEL ties, 1/3 inch wide, from this place:  http://www.electerm.com/tys1.html.  The bundle was $67, but this is important enough to justify this cost.  Heather's C.A.R.D. antenna is tied with white cable ties, her sat phone antenna is tied with white cable ties, her AIR-X wind turbine has a number of white cable ties, etc., etc.

By the way, I just this minute got a sat phone call from Heather, out in the Gulf on her shakedown cruise, heading home now.  The winds are very light, and she's having to beat into them, but her Monitor - which she has affectionately named Mortimer - is doing all the steering for her, while she concentrates on photographing all the Dolphins.

No, I'm not just a proud papa.  I'm a very jealous papa!

Thanks for the tip about the UV white cable ties; I was unaware of this problem.

Reef early!
Gene

The Tefzel cable ties seem to be the ticket for that problem... a bit pricey...but well worth it IMHO.

Gene,

I hope you are well. I read the entire website Heather put together and it is fascinating. She has such courage!! I look forward to reading of her travels, and wish you both a blessed Christmas.

JD

Thank you very much, JD, and I hope you also had a blessed Christmas, as our whole family did here at the Neill house.  Unfortunately, Lieutenant Christa Neill Almonte, Heather's baby daughter, who is Operations Officer on the USS Lake Erie, couldn't make it for Christmas AND the embarkation.  So she skipped Christmas, and will be here to see Heather off.  In fact, she'll be sleeping on Heather's boat, FLIGHT OF YEARS, the night before Heather leaves.  And I'll be in the Marina Motel.

CAN YOU IMAGINE ELECTRICITY BUZZING AROUND THIS FAMILY THESE LAST FEW DAYS BEFORE HEATHER DISAPPEARS OVER THE HORIZON????  Something between terror and ecstasy perhaps?

I'm already giving Heather weather forecasts at least once each day now.

HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL YOU GUYS!

Gene

The electricity is affecting us all!! Half way between terror and ecstasy, stupidity and pure genius. We are all living vicariously through Heather.

Part of my joy is the size of her boat. I sail a Compac 19 which is also a 20 foot boat. I have so many people tell me I can't make it to the Bahamas or across the Great Lakes, and as yet I have not conquered either area. My sailing experience is limited to a 13' sloop on small lakes and one year in my CP.

As Heather goes, so go I!  ;D

Is heather ready??? Has she gotten everything she needed to finish on Flight done? 

Quote from: FLIGHT on December 25, 2007, 08:03:48 PM
Thank you very much, JD, and I hope you also had a blessed Christmas, as our whole family did here at the Neill house.  Unfortunately, Lieutenant Christa Neill Almonte, Heather's baby daughter, who is Operations Officer on the USS Lake Erie, couldn't make it for Christmas AND the embarkation.  So she skipped Christmas, and will be here to see Heather off.  In fact, she'll be sleeping on Heather's boat, FLIGHT OF YEARS, the night before Heather leaves.  And I'll be in the Marina Motel.

CAN YOU IMAGINE ELECTRICITY BUZZING AROUND THIS FAMILY THESE LAST FEW DAYS BEFORE HEATHER DISAPPEARS OVER THE HORIZON????  Something between terror and ecstasy perhaps?

I'm already giving Heather weather forecasts at least once each day now.

HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL YOU GUYS!

Gene

WHOA GUYS!

FORGET THE TEFZEL CABLE TIES - AT LEAST THOSE FROM ELECTRICAL TERMINAL SERVICE, INC!!!!!!

I ordered one "bundle", and as I mentioned, the lady said that would be $67.  And yeah, I thought that was a little expensive, but not out of sight.  So I ordered them and they arrived.

Now they have sent me a bill, showing that they charged Heather's credit card for the ties.  But, instead of $67 dollars, they charged her.......

SIX HUNDRED AND SEVENTY THREE DOLLARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They multiplied my order BY ONE HUNDRED.  Said I got TEN THOUSAND TIES!

I told the &^%$# lady they were going to go on a twenty foot sailboat.

CAN YOU IMAGINE A 20' SAILBOAT WITH TEN THOUSAND CABLE TIES HANGING OFF OF IT????

THIS WILL BE RESOLVED, OR WE WON'T PAY THEM ANYTHING, BUT DON'T DEAL WITH THESE PEOPLE!

Gene

Hey, LOST LAKE, tell those naysayers of yours - the ones who say you can't take your boat to the Bahamas - to look at Heather's web site at ht+p://www.solo-sailor.c0m/Captain_Heather.htm.

There are several pictures there of Heather, her little brother, my wife and me, cruising the Bahamas FOR OVER A YEAR in an 18 1/2' Alacrity sailboat with no engine!

AND WE HAD A MARVELOUS TIME - from one end of the Bahamas to the other end and back - we covered it all!  Could not have been more fun in a 50 footer!

SIZE OF A BOAT IS NOT A FUNCTION OF SEAWORTHINESS AT ALL.  BUT IT IS TRUE THAT A LARGER BOAT CAN BE MUCH MORE DIFFICULT TO HANDLE SAFELY.  HEATHER COULD HAVE BOUGHT A USED 50' BOAT IF SHE HAD WANTED IT, BUT SHE AND I BOTH KNEW SHE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO HANDLE THE CANVAS IN A VIOLENT STORM CONDITION.  SHE CAN HANDLE THE FLICKA.

And no, ADRIFT AT SEA, Heather has not completed everything she must do before departure.  She's down working on the boat right this minute, shifting weight from starboard to port, to level up her waterline, and she still has a lot of last minute little details to take care of.  But, like Larry Pardy says, "You're never ready to go on a long voyage; you just have to finally leave anyway."

That's sort of why we picked January 1, 2008 at 10:32 am for her embarkation date and time.  We knew she wouldn't be ready, so we just set a date for her to "leave anyway".  But nothing major will be hanging when she leaves; only little details.

Thanks for your kind words,

Gene

I see you'll have some extra tefzel cable ties left over... ;)

 >:(It's a funny thing, ADRIFT AT SEA . . . .

In my 76 years, I've probably had a couple hundred folks make mistakes in counting out my change or in charging me for purchases and such.  Just like these cable ties.

BUT NOT ONE OF THOSE WAS EVER A MISTAKE IN MY FAVOR.

HOW COME ALL THOSE "MISTAKES" MAKE MONEY FOR THE DUDE WHO MAKES THE MISTAKE, AND NEVER THE OTHER GUY?

Gene

WOW, WOW, WOW!  IT'S GETTING WORSE AND WORSE!

The manager at the Tefzel cable tie place just now told me on the phone that his bill was correct.  That the small package of cable ties sells for $673!!!!!!!!!

HE SAYS THE CABLE TIES ARE $6.73 EACH!

He VERY RELUCTANTLY agreed to only charge me the $67 plus freight, but he acted like he was REALLY DOING ME A BIG FAVOR!

REMEMBER - DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH ELECTRICAL TERMINAL SERVICE, INC!

Gene

It appears that "PROFIT" truely is not a 4 letter word for those people  ;D

Quote from: FLIGHT on December 26, 2007, 02:46:04 AM
WHOA GUYS!

FORGET THE TEFZEL CABLE TIES - AT LEAST THOSE FROM ELECTRICAL TERMINAL SERVICE, INC!!!!!!

I ordered one "bundle", and as I mentioned, the lady said that would be $67.  And yeah, I thought that was a little expensive, but not out of sight.  So I ordered them and they arrived.

Now they have sent me a bill, showing that they charged Heather's credit card for the ties.  But, instead of $67 dollars, they charged her.......

SIX HUNDRED AND SEVENTY THREE DOLLARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They multiplied my order BY ONE HUNDRED.  Said I got TEN THOUSAND TIES!

I told the &^%$# lady they were going to go on a twenty foot sailboat.

CAN YOU IMAGINE A 20' SAILBOAT WITH TEN THOUSAND CABLE TIES HANGING OFF OF IT????

THIS WILL BE RESOLVED, OR WE WON'T PAY THEM ANYTHING, BUT DON'T DEAL WITH THESE PEOPLE!

Gene

Actually Gene, you're making out like a bandit here!  Your order was multiplied by 100, but your bill was multiplied by 10!

So  if 20 of us pay you half price for a hundreth  share, you will have your money back, we will all get a great deal, and you with have 9 thousand ties left yet.

And you're complaining???? :D

I've had deals go wrong in my favor several times; usually I get change back for a $20 when I only paid $10, and I always give it back, even if I have to drive back to the store or wherever... It's all in keeping the good karma flowing.

But one time I returned a phone because I found it $10 cheaper and the retailer then offered me 110% of the difference, or $11. That was great. I paid $200 for the phone, and the competition had it for $190.

Now follow this, when they tried to bring up the SKU number  they thought the phone should have been $50. An obvious computer error, but they began to argue that I should get back 110% of $150... or $165.

No, I showed them the phone, the ad in the flyer, the price on the shelf. They argued. I argued. I called a manager over. We all argued. Finally I was about to walk out and not get any refund when the manager yelled, "You'll take this discount because we're very busy and this is taking up too much of our time!"

"FINE!" I shot back. "Give me my money back! See if I care!" And I actually stormed out mad that I couldn't show these people they were making a mistake giving me all that money. :D

So I got my $200 phone for $35 and have shopped there ever since. They always have great deals, I don't know how they stay in business. It's a big box store, STAPLES.

Well this is all off topic now.

Can you post pictures for those of us who cannot be at the embarkment?

Quote from: FLIGHT on December 26, 2007, 10:46:34 AM
WOW, WOW, WOW!  IT'S GETTING WORSE AND WORSE!

The manager at the Tefzel cable tie place just now told me on the phone that his bill was correct.  That the small package of cable ties sells for $673!!!!!!!!!

HE SAYS THE CABLE TIES ARE $6.73 EACH!

He VERY RELUCTANTLY agreed to only charge me the $67 plus freight, but he acted like he was REALLY DOING ME A BIG FAVOR!

REMEMBER - DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH ELECTRICAL TERMINAL SERVICE, INC!

Gene

Uggghhh.. On that news, please cancel my half price order.... ;D

Ouch...  these wouldn't happen to be military spec cable ties, would they??

Quote from: FLIGHT on December 26, 2007, 10:46:34 AM
WOW, WOW, WOW!  IT'S GETTING WORSE AND WORSE!

The manager at the Tefzel cable tie place just now told me on the phone that his bill was correct.  That the small package of cable ties sells for $673!!!!!!!!!

HE SAYS THE CABLE TIES ARE $6.73 EACH!

He VERY RELUCTANTLY agreed to only charge me the $67 plus freight, but he acted like he was REALLY DOING ME A BIG FAVOR!

REMEMBER - DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH ELECTRICAL TERMINAL SERVICE, INC!

Gene

MAN, DO NOT EVER DECIDE TO SAIL AROUND THE WORLD NOR AGREE TO HELP A LOVED ONE PREPARE HER BOAT FOR A SOLO CIRCUMNAVIGATION!

Here we are - FIVE DAYS LEFT - and Hamilton Ferris, the guy who sold us the Air-X Wind Turbine calls Heather, and says, "I just happend to click on your site, and there's no way your new batteries (they're only a month old!) will work with my Air-X.  You'll have to buy two other new very special batteries and an additional regulator - or you won't have any electricity!

So now we've got two some-kind-of-special batteries and a some-kind-of-special-additional regulator coming NEXT DAY AIR!  But I'm not in good enough shape to do the work, and Heather's mechanic friend can't do it 'til MONDAY - THE DAY BEFORE DEPARTURE!

If there were any cliffs in Florida, I'd go jump off a cliff! ???

The two P24 batteries you had originally only gave Heather 75 amp-hours of usable electrical storage, since they were 75 amp-hours each.  Given that she's going to be running a CARD unit, nav lights, radio, etc... that seems awfully low.  What size/type batteries did Hamilton Ferris tell you to install???

Oh wow Gene, that's terrible news!  Didn't the AirX list acceptable batteries?

And to air freight batteries must cost a fortune! :o  You could probably buy a dozen ties with that kind of shipping cost! :D

Look at the bright side, you found out in time to change them out, and you don't have to pay a chopper to fly them out to Heather in the middle of the sea...

This is very interesting, since the AirX sites (ALL of them) claim that it will charge any battery bank from 25 to 25,000 amp hours.  Nuttin nowhere about special batteries.

Hi Dr. Gene,

Best wishes to your daughter and her family. I first read about her voyage sometime ago and at that time she was going to do it with a Nor-Sea 27. I was just wondering why she changed to a Flicka ??? Both are excellent boats and I have confidence her ability and her Flicka, although it would be too small for my fat...head ::) Well, give a hug from all of us at sailFar!!!

Fair winds,

Pappy Jack

Heather Neill and her Flicka s/y FLIGHT
of YEARS. The weather isn't cooperating for her departure from
Steinhatchee, Florida on January 1st She may have to wait for the
storm to blow through. Given the shallow nature of the northeastern
corner of the Gulf of Mexico, this sounds prudent...

To those of you kind folk who are coming to see me off...I have a bit
of unhappy news. The weather forecast for New Year's Day is:

Small Craft Warning
Winds 12-24 knots
Seas: 3' every 4 seconds (15/minute)

That wouldn't stop me from leaving Steinhatchee, Florida since I
could sail out under a single or double reefed main and working jib.
No Problem.

The next day, January 2, 2008, is the problem. The weather forecast
calls for:

Hazardous Conditions—use Extreme Caution
Winds 22 — 29 Knots
Seas: 14' every 8 seconds (7.5/minute)

Since I would have to heave-to or lie to my sea anchor all day
January 2nd and I would not have been able to get far enough from
land on January 1st, I would still be in the shallow waters of the
northeastern Gulf of Mexico with many hazards, there may be a delay
in my departure from Florida.

Watch for future updates...

(copied from Flicka site)

I can see how the weather on the 2nd is the big problem...14' seas every eight seconds... not much fun—especially in a 20' boat.

I don't see this information on Heather's site yet, solo-sailor.com. Too bad for her, she's itching to go!!

This was posted a few hours later on the Flicka site..."UPDATE: Heather Neill & s/y FLIGHT of YEARS


HEATHER WILL BE EMBARKING AT 10:32 AM NEW YEAR'S MORNING!

Thank you very much!

Gene & Heather"...

My dear sailor pals -

Several things:

1.  YES, ABSOLUTELY, HEATHER WILL BE EMBARKING STEINHATCHEE NEW YEAR'S MORNING AT 10:32AM - COME THE PROVERBIAL heck OR HIGH WATER.  She says, "I'm gonna' have to get used to bad weather, and this is as good a time as any."  And she won't even TALK about delaying the departure.  So - if you were going to attend - COME ON!

2.  AdriftAtSea - yes, apparently you're right.  But I HAD talked with someone at Air-X, and he had told me our new batteries would be adequate.  But now the big boss, Hamilton Ferris - and we trust him totally - says no.  And he IS selling us the new batteries at his cost.  Plus an additional regulator.  And he says we must have a "dump" something or other.  Some sort of device which dumps excess electricity coming from the Air-X.

Every heard of that?

And they only have to come from Orlando - some three hundred miles or so - so the freight won't be out of sight.

3.  And - hee - hee - hee - Lost Lake - no comedian - I can't buy a dozen ties for that cost!

4.  Yeah, CharlieJ - I'm with you!

5.  Pappy Jack - we changed from the Nor-Sea to the Flicka when the owner of Nor-Sea bilked Heather out of $30,000!  Long story.

6.  Don't worry, Lost Lake, she WILL BE GONE at 10:32 the morning of the first!

So all is well here.

And thank each of you so very much again for all your kind words to Heather!

Gene

Yes, most wind generators will need a dump resistor for when they're generating too much electricity.  Basically, it is a big resistor block that the excess current dumps into and it sheds the extra electricity as heat. 

what regulator is he sending you??

Wish Heather good luck, fair winds and following seas for me. :)

Oh my God!! 14' seas? I can't imagine... How are those measured, from crest to valley? Her Flicka will be in swells twice as tall as she is!

More for us to worry about.... Please post here how great she is doing when you speak to her Gene...

I'll go off the reservation a bit here and state my (nearly worthless) opinion as a question.

Gene, as you stated above, the key to rough weather is SEAROOM.  If she cannot get out far enough, and I think one accepted 'standard' in this regard is 100 nm from shore (or shallow water), from her 1 Jan departure before the rough stuff hits on 2 Jan...

WHY PUSH THE DEPARTURE ON 1 JAN??

What has she got to lose to wait a few extra days?

Isn't a big part of seamanship prudence?

But hey, I'm all for her calling her own shots.  I wish her well whatever she does.

Fair Winds.

what I don't understand about this is that the web sites for Air-X CLEARLY state that that is all built in, automatic. It shuts itself down when batteries are fully charged. At least that's what it says on their web site.

Here's the quote, lifted from the web page-

"Previous AIR designs required 300-400 amp hour battery banks so the trickle charge of the wind turbine could be adequately absorbed. The AIR-X's charge controller periodically stops charging, reads the battery voltage, compares it to the voltage setting and if the battery is charged, it completely shuts off all current going to the battery. This function is performed within a few milliseconds. The closer the battery is to reaching its full state of charge, the more often the AIR-X's circuit repeats this action. This means any size battery bank from 25 to 25,000 amp hours or higher can be charged safely. When the battery has reached its charged state, the AIR-X will slow to an almost complete stop. Only when the battery has dropped below its voltage set point will it startup and resume charging. The Benefit: Extended battery life, no overcharging."



So if that is true, why would they need something EXTRA?? It's supposed to be built in already. So it would then seem that the adverts are incorrect if what Gene has been told is in fact the truth.

Since I am looking at wind generators, I'm really curious about this. Because if it ISN'T what is stated on the web site, I'm not interested.

Hi Gene,

OK, 10:32 A.M. it is ;D. If it's really bad out there she could just sail out a mile or so then come right back in ::). Or, just sail down to Cedar Key and tuck in out of the wind for a day or two. If she is like my wife(and daughter), she'll just do what ever she wants to anyway so I'd be quiet and keep out of her way;D.

Fair winds

Pappy Jack

Did I miss the significance of 10:32 am for departure? Is it scriptural or celestial? Is it exactly one year after the announcement she was going to do it?

Cutting the dock lines is a big event.  Whether she goes 100 feet or 100 miles, getting away from the dock is what is important.  All she needs to do is to move to a protected anchorage and wait out the storm. 

Exactly- and Cedar Key is but a short distance south. The actual point of leaving is the important point- after that she's voyaging ;D

And voyagers aren't on a schedule other than Ma Nature's ;D

Gentlemen -

I've got a few minutes....

Heather's out motoring to warm up her stuffing box, so she can check the drip rate.  She recently re-stuffed it, and it's been fine, but it's past due for checking and adjusting if necessary.

Speaking of which IVAN KADAR recently gave me a great safety tip, which Heather has rigged:  Take a two piece stainless 1" collar, and clamp it onto the propeller shaft just forward of the stuffing box.  Then - even if your shaft broke or came loose at the flanges, the shaft COULD NOT go out the aft end and let water pour in.  The collar would prevent the shaft from moving more than a quarter inch.  Excellent idea - thank you Ivan.

Now, in answer to your questions:

No, AdriftAtSea, I have no idea what Hamilton Ferris has in mind about these batteries and such.  I know Heather has now received his new additional regulator, and the two new batteries are due for delivery today.  BUT HE ALSO SAID SHE HAD to have a something-or-other "dump" thing.  Ever heard of it?  It supposedly "dumps" off excess electricity?  And he has not been able to find one, but says we have to use one.  He says we have to use these two new batteries AND the additional regulator AND this "dump" whatever-it-is.  Heather has been talking to him, and she knows what he's talking about - I have no idea!

But I do still trust Hamilton Ferris.

Yeah, CharlieJ - I don't understand why we were hit with all this at the last minute!

Frank, the forecast has picked up for Wednesday the 2nd now:  40 KNOT (GALE FORCE) WINDS 23 FOOT SEAS!

Unfortunately, New Year's Day is fine sailing weather.  It would be the next day that would be the killer, and she would not be far out enough for safety.  Right about the time all that weather would hit her, there are sunken ships awash and right close to her rhumb line, plus one reef.

So yes, IF the forecasts turn out to be true, she'll be hiding for a day or two in some little anchorage near Steinhatchee.  BUT SHE'LL BE ON HER WAY!

Some guy told me yesterday that the most dangerous thing any sailboat could have aboard would be a calendar - and that's exactly right!

Captain Smollett you are exactly right, and Heather and I both know that full well.  Here's out thoughts:  First, there's a 50-50 chance the Forecast will be wrong or will change between now and Tuesday, so we'll wait and watch.  But folks are coming from all across America to see Heather off on the FIRST, and the weatherman says the FIRST will be fine.  So, IF the first is good, she'll take off.  But, if it looks like the SECOND will be dangerous, she'll anchor in any one of several little hidden bays right out of Steinhatchee, and wait for it to blow over.

She could handle 23 foot waves and 40 knots of wind - lying to her sea anchor - but she can't get out far enough Tuesday to safely deploy the sea anchor on Wednesday.

SO YES, SHE'LL EMBARK NEW YEAR'S MORNING, BUT SHE MAY NOT GET VERY FAR THAT DAY BEFORE SHE ANCHORS.

CHARLIEJ - I'm with you.  Before I bought the new batteries which Heather has had in her boat for a couple of months, I called the Air-X people, and asked them if these batteries would be satisfactory, and they said "YES".  AND NOW HERE, HOURS BEFORE DEPARTURE, WE'RE TOLD WE HAVE TO HAVE TWO OTHER BATTERIES, PLUS AN ADDITIONAL ALTERNATOR, PLUS A "DUMP" SOMETHING OR OTHER (I don't recall the name).  So do you think I'm happy?

LOST LAKE, you asked about the 10:32 am departure time.  I found many decades ago that if you say something like, "Well, as soon as I can get the boat ready, and as soon as I have a weather window, I'm going to cast off and go!" - you'll never leave the dock.  Larry Pardey is not a hero of mine, but he's bright, and he said that also, "You're never going to be ready to go and you're never going to have the weather you want.  If you want to ever go, you eventually just have to pick up and go!"  So Heather and I picked the day and time, and we're still going to do it, though she may only get thirty miles that first day.  But she will be on her way around the world!!!!

Heather just called me, and yes, she's going to have to readjust her stuffing box, but all her tools are here at my house, where I've been getting them ready for her, so she won't be able to adjust and recheck 'til tomorrow.  And yes, her batteries and regulator are all there at the marina now.

Again, thank you guys so very much for all your kindness to my baby girl.

Reef early!
Gene

I caught up with this pretty late in the game - BUT - all the Best to Heather and her craft.

Two points to consider based on my own experience sailing a Flicka

1) Practice with Sheet To Tiller sailing as a backup to the wind vane - the vane may break down - but sheet to tiller  will still be better than trying to hand steer for several hundred sea miles to the nearest port for repairs.  The Flicka handles PERFECTLY under sheet to tiller steering - both on the mainsheet or on the jib sheet

2) A small solar panel is a good investment - if you did not already have that aboard - no need for a fancy charge controller - just connect it when you need the juice and the wind does not cooperate in your chosen anchorage.

Fair Winds

Jobst

Quote from: SolarSailor on December 28, 2007, 09:10:14 PM1) Practice with Sheet To Tiller sailing as a backup to the wind vane - the vane may break down - but sheet to tiller  will still be better than trying to hand steer for several hundred sea miles to the nearest port for repairs.  The Flicka handles PERFECTLY under sheet to tiller steering - both on the mainsheet or on the jib sheet

I agree with Jobst. I used sheet to tiller steering on my Catalina Capri 22 to try it out and was very pleased with it. I have tried it a couple of times on my current wheel-steered boat -- it works okay but not nearly as well as on the tiller boat.

Quote from: FLIGHT on December 27, 2007, 07:40:50 PM5.  Pappy Jack - we changed from the Nor-Sea to the Flicka when the owner of Nor-Sea bilked Heather out of $30,000!  Long story.

He's *still* doing that?!? Or - doing it again, now? Sheesh...

I hope that the reason you aren't saying more is on the advice of legal counsel.

$30,000 is a large part of what Heather will spend on her whole trip, I'd bet. Grrr.

I hope that she leaves soon, there is a Flicka here in the Man of War Harbor. She can do it. I hope that she makes it by here before she crosses the pond.

No, Sorry, she won't ever be hitting Man Of War Cay.  Check out her site, and you can read her route - Florida, Mexico, Panama, Marquesas, Oceania, Australia, Med., Europe, Caribbean, home to Florida.

I used to love Man Of War.  I went there often before anything was there.  Albury had his little boat building shed.  No tourists.  No visiting yachts.  This is back in the '50s.  It was really nice back then.

Best wishes,
Gene

Gene-

You're assuming she'll stick to the planned itinerary... she may change her mind and change it...or she may find someplace she loves and stay a while. :)  She probably has no idea what is really in store for her on this voyage.

Dan

You're assuming she'll stick to the planned itinerary... she may change her mind and change it...

------------------------

She does not have a fixed itinerary at all, but if you're talking about Man Of War Cay, she positively will not be going there.  She's been there, done that and wasn't crazy about it.

------------------------

or she may find someplace she loves and stay a while. :) 

----------------------------

Yes, she'll probably spend a month or so in some places.  Then, after she gets back here, she'll probably be heading out again, perhaps for Ireland.

----------------------

She probably has no idea what is really in store for her on this voyage.

-----------------------

Yes, Dan, she has been a world traveler, and knows exactly what is in store for her on this voyage.

Gene



Dan
[/quote]

Gene, more boats and houses now in Man of War. From my understanding the islands north are still rustic as well as the Bight of Abaco. I will find out and let you know.

Thanks for letting me know her plans. Sounds like a good trip.

Gene-

I think that being a world traveler by airplane is a very different thing than being a world traveler by small boat IMHO. 

You're absolutely right, AdriftAtSea.

She has no idea what is in store for her, boating-wise. 

Although she has sailed to Man Of War Cay, and most of the islands of the Bahamas (on that year and a half cruise with me), and although she remembers it well, she was only a child then, and seeing it through adult eyes would be quite different.  You are completely correct; forgive me for arguing with you please.

However, again I don't know whether you were suggesting she ought to go to Man Of War Cay again.  But if you were, remember it would be nearly 2,000 miles out of her way round trip.  And it would be right on her final leg home from the Windward Islands of the southern Caribbean.  Plus, having sailed there before and remembering it well, she would not be going to Man Of War again.

Yes, although she has sailed 1400 blue water miles with me, it was many years ago, and she has much to learn about voyaging.  She says so in her web site.  Plus she has much to learn about sailing, and is the very first one to admit it.  She emphasizes she is little more than a learning lubber.  I boast too much for her - forgive me - I'm a poor, wretchedly doting, old father.

Thank you very much for your thoughts,
Gene

Gene-

I certainly wasn't suggesting that she go to Man 'o War Cay, just thinking that what she thinks she will encounter on her upcoming voyage may be very different from the reality of what she actually encounters... Her preconceptions of the world may be very different from the reality of it, when she gets out there. 

In the future, she may decide to re-visit Man 'o War Cay at some point..and the place may be very different as an adult there, by herself, than it was as a child. 

I look forward to following her voyage as she makes her way around our big blue marble.

Dan

Yes, Lynx, my wife and our youngest daughter, Christa, and I were in the Abacos recently in our little diesel Bristol Bay Troller (not Trawler).  I took the boat from Miami to Bimini alone, Dorothy and Christa joined me there, we motored up to Walker's Cay, and cruised from there down to the Jumentos Cays - then back home to Miami.

So we've kept up with developments in the Bahamas.

Thank you very much.
Gene

Gene - COOL. Most people go the other way first.I have only been on the boat for 2 months and have changed a lot of what I thought that life would be like on the water. A lot of what I have learned coastal cruising has been modified. It has been said by many cruisers that curising is its own extreme sport and usually require time at it to become good. What you have done in your coastal waters will help but the real life knowledge of draging anchor and having to move the boat at sunset to find another location to sleep at night being 500 miles from home makes one start to think about cruising in a different way. I am sure that she will work it out. Great boat and not really hard, just different.

It looks like her course is very good and easy enough that she can do it. A few miles, then stop for a few days and then a few more. Recope and repair if nessarry.

I may have to go back to work by the time she makes it to the Bahamas but I hope not.

Hi Lynx -

Thank you for the nice note.

But, forgive me, most people do not "go the other way first", if you mean circumnavigating West to East.  You would miss the trades that way, which would otherwise carry you 70% of the way around the world.

Perhaps you're thinking of Yankees who sail down to the Bahamas from up North, then on down to the Caribbean and over to Panama.  But that's not us.  We're Rebels from way over on the Gulf coast of Florida.  To go to the Bahamas from here and then down to Panama would be many thousands of miles out of the way.

No, I've never done any coastal water sailing.  The east coast of Florida is rough and non-fun sailing, and the west coast of Florida is worse.  Except for the Bahamas and the Caribbean, Florida is not a great sailing state at all, believe it or not.  Except for bay sailors.

And no, I've never dragged anchor yet, but I've always gone overkill on anchors sizes and numbers.

We've gone way out of our way to avoid the type of sailing which is a "few miles, then stop for a few days, then a few more."  "Harbor hopping", as it is called, is the very most dangerous sailing of all.  The land is the sailor's enemy.  The open ocean his friend.  Voyagers do not get in trouble out in the open sea; they get in trouble when they are near land.  And she'll have several stretches of some 50 days out of sight of land.

Very best wishes,

Gene

Gene - I was thinking that she might just head over to the med and cross through the cannal and then indian ocean to the pacific. But this is not done much as you said.

I dragged anchor because I did not check it. I was on rock and it did hold for a little. I should have checked it.

You bet that the land can be the ememy of the sailor. A lot of stuff in the water and no place to go when things get out of hand.

It is good that you like the blue water. If I had the money to get a better boat I would have done so in my earlier years. I would need a big boat now for my tender body.

It looks like there is a weather window is the 2nd or 3rd. I hope that she has a good 500+ mile trip to Mexico. I have always wanted to do that trip.

THINGS ARE DEFINITELY NOT LOOKING GOOD, GUYS.

Lemme start from the beginning:  I bought this AIR-X wind turbine from Hamilton Ferris Company.  Took me two weeks, 10 hours a day, to install it properly.  Then I was going to buy two new batteries for Heather, and I figured I'd get the same ones which came with the boat in the first place.  And I called Hamilton Ferris, and the guy I talked to said, "Sure, they'll be perfect.  No problem."

So I installed the batteries.

NOW THREE DAYS BEFORE EMBARKATION DATE, MR. HAMILTON FERRIS CALLED HEATHER AND SAID, "No, your system is not going to work at all.  Those batteries are all wrong.  You need a different battery, and you need at least three of them.  And you need an additional regulator, and you need a dump circuit.  But don't worry, Heather can easily install the dump and the regulator."  Etc., etc.

So we bought the two new batteries from him and the new regulator - which is to be installed IN ADDITION to the boat's Yanmar regulator.  AND THE INSTRUCTION MANUAL FOR INSTALLING THIS NEW REGULATOR IS EIGHTY PAGES LONG, AND IT'S A HUGE AND HEAVY MACHINE!

But he couldn't find a dump circuit.  Not yet, at least

And now he tells us that - if we don't have at least three batteries and the regulator and the dump circuit, the batteries will never charge all the way up.  The Air-X will shut down before they are fully charged.

WE'RE JUST GOING TO HAVE TO POSTPONE THE DEPARTURE.

Heather will be out there on this boat probably at least five years or more.

And she could not install these things by herself, and no Mexican nor Panamanian mechanic is going to have any idea what the dump circuit nor this new regulator is.

WE'RE JUST GOING TO HAVE TO POSTPONE THE DEPARTURE UNTIL WE CAN GET AND INSTALL THE THIRD BATTERY AND THE DUMP CIRCUIT.

We can get the 3rd battery by Tuesday the 1st.

But we don't have any idea about the dump circuit.  Maybe a day or so - we hope.

Heather cried when I told her she was going to have to postpone.

I just got furious.

BUT THIS IS THE WAY IT HAS TO BE.

IF YOU EVER THINK ABOUT INSTALLING A WIND ALTERNATOR, MAKE CERTAIN THE DISTRIBUTOR TELLS YOU ALL THE BAD NEWS RIGHT UP FRONT.

WE STILL TRUST HAMILTON FERRIS AND HIS COMPANY.  IT WAS THE OTHER GUY I TALKED WITH THERE WHO CAUSED ALL THIS CONSTERNATION.

Sorry to disappoint you guys - I'm very sorry.

We'll keep you posted.

Cheers anyway,
Gene

Don't try to push a river!

Folks push rivers all the time - dam them up, divert them, etc., nothin' to it.

It suppliers of electrical parts you cannot push.

Gene

Hi,

This is clearly the right decision! We're cheering and rooting for you to have a fun and safe trip. I, for one, will be taking this trip with you vicariously.

Best of luck
Oded Kishony

Gene,

You don't have to have a dump circuit to charge the batteries fully. The function of the dump circuit is to avoid overcharging the batteries by turning extra energy into heat instead of trying to push it into the battery bank. You can perform the same function by watching the state of charge and turning off the wind gen. It isn't a five year solution (in my mind), but it is a possible expedient.

Check with Hotwire (www.svhotwire.com) -- they are well-regarded cruisers who have a small business in Florida in alternative power generation. I know they carry dump circuits and may well have something in stock.

sail fast, dave

Salt Sea Air Land Technologies
(305) 289-1150 keysweb.info
2109 Overseas Hwy, Marathon, FL 33050

Give these people a call. I bought my solar pannels from him and he has a good inventory.

Great prodjucts

YOU'RE AN ABSOLUTE ANSWER TO PRAYER, AUSPICIOUS!

John, the owner of Hotwire Enterprises will be driving up here in the morning to solve all of Heather's electrical problems.  He sells his own brand of wind turbine, and sounds to me as though he really knows whereof he speaks, including knowing all about our Air-X system.   In fact, he said, "I don't know why Ham (Hamilton Ferris) would have said that to Heather.  You don't really need more than two batteries....", etc., etc., etc.  I didn't understand all of his electrical talk, because I'm fairly ignorant of matters electrical, alas.

But he said he will make up his own dump system, and bring it with him when he comes.

And fortunately he's not too awfully far from Heather's boat, possibly a three hour drive.

So thank you so very much for the tip!  You're a lifesaver!

In the meantime, Heather had to run her engine for about an hour to get it warmed up enough to adjust the stuffing box drip rate - which she now has down to about three drops a minute.

Thanks again!


Gene

That sounds like John. His wife's name is Libbie -- the often travel together in a small RV so you may get to meet her as well. I haven't heard an update in a while, but John and Libbie's boat sank earlier in the year and I believe they are working to rebuild her. I thought you would like to know that.

The KISS wind generator Hotwire carries is actually made in Trinidad by yet another entrepreneur cruiser; John is a US distributer. For the record it's a very simple, straightforward well regarded product.

Funny that John would say what you reported -- that was exactly my thought when I read your post, except the words were more along the lines of "Why the heck would he have said that?" <grin> I'm not familiar with Ferris so I'd rather not cast stones.

What I expect John will help you do is double check the Air-X install, check the wind-gen regulator (I do agree that you should have one of those -- you can live without it, just as you can live without a dump load, but then the *sailor* becomes the regulator, manually switching off the gen when the batteries are charged), make sure the engine and wind-gen regulators are installed compatibly, and put the dump load in somewhere appropriate. The dump load can get quite warm when the batteries are charged and the wind continues to drive the generator. I don't know the layout of the Flicka to make a specific recommendation, but bear in mind where Heather will sleep and where perishable stores are kept in helping select a location.

Does Flight of Years have a battery monitor (like a Link or TriMetric) or just a voltage meter? If you have a battery monitor, the negative charge lead from the wind generator should be on the side of the shunt away from the battery bank (just as the main negative line from the engine alternator should be). John will check that also I'm sure.

Please tell John I'm sorry to have missed him at the Annapolis Boat Show. I did have a parking place lined up for him.

Hi John -

To bad you're not nearby so you could come over and give Heather a hand on these charging problems!

How on earth did their boat sink???? 

Made in Trinidad???  I've spent a lot of time in Trinidad, and can't imagine anything of quality coming out of that hole.  But if you say so . . . .

I'd be happy for John to check the Air-X install, but it is flawless.  Understand, the thing has been working flawlessly now since Heather put the boat in the water a month or so ago.  Worked fine throughout her so-called "shake-down cruise", though the wind was so light much of the time, there was little charging.  Thus the wind gen regulator is working flawlessly. 

When you say make sure the engine and wind-gen regulators are installed compatibly, you mean the wind gen regulator in the Air-X or the new additional third regulator?  Oh never mind, I would have no idea anyway.

I don't know what a battery monitor is.  It has some sort of battery meter on the circuit breaker box, and you can switch it from one battery to the other, but I have no way of knowing what it shows other than voltage.

No, the Air-X people told me to attach the Air-X to the house battery, which is where I attached it.

Too much trouble.....!

Thanks for your help!

Gene

Gene,

I'd be pleased to come help if I could. I'm a bit far and a little limited by some health issues. It was kind of you to say you thought I'd be of use.

I must admit to being confused. I did not realize (or gather from your posts) that the Air-X had a built-in regulator. I tracked down the manufacturer's web site (www.windsun.com) and read their page on the Air-X Marine. It is clear that there is a built-in regulator (they call it a charge controller, a term usually used for solar panel regulators, but a reasonable synonym).

I'm not sure why Ferris sold you an additional external regulator, unless he/they are out of date on Air-X products. The Air-X website says:

QuoteImproved battery charging: Previous AIR designs required 300-400 amp hour battery banks so the trickle charge of the wind turbine could be adequately absorbed. The AIR-X's charge controller periodically stops charging, reads the battery voltage, compares it to the voltage setting and if the battery is charged, it completely shuts off all current going to the battery. This function is performed within a few milliseconds. The closer the battery is to reaching its full state of charge, the more often the AIR-X's circuit repeats this action. This means any size battery bank from 25 to 25,000 amp hours or higher can be charged safely. When the battery has reached its charged state, the AIR-X will slow to an almost complete stop. Only when the battery has dropped below its voltage set point will it startup and resume charging.

That means there used to be an issue with having enough battery capacity for the old internal regulator to work correctly, but that is no longer the case. I hope Ferris did not sell you something old out of inventory. Perhaps a phone call to Northern Arizona Wind & Sun with the serial number would be useful.

I never have heard any sailor complain about having too much battery capacity though, so a larger bank than you originally planned may be an ultimate benefit.

The internal regulator seems to apply a brake and shut down power generation. If true, I don't understand why Ferris told you that you need a dump load. The point of a dump load is to consume power generated by the wind gen after the batteries are charged. If instead there is a way (as appears to be the case) to stop power generation then a dump load is extraneous.

I expect the external regulator does have terminals for the dump load (good external regulators assume no control over the upstream power source, so if power is coming it has to go somewhere), so if there is any shortfall in the internal regulator, the external one and the dump load are indeed the right answer.

I looked for a copy of the schematic or even the owner's manual for the Air-X online without luck. John's reputation is sterling however and I have confidence he will give you the straight story.

It sounds as if Flight of Years has a volt meter only. That means no shunt to worry about. For background information, voltage of a battery bank is an inaccurate way of measuring state of charge (although it was all we had for years and years and will serve in the absence of other means). A battery monitor actually keeps track of the energy flow into and out of the battery bank (in amp*hours or watt*hours) and provides an indication of state of charge. The Mastervolt-built unit on my boat has a read-out in percent of full charge and in amp*hours; I believe the Link, TriMetric, and competing brands do the same. The Xantrex-made Link battery monitors are the most widely installed battery monitors in US outfit boats. Four weeks ago I would have suggested squeezing one into your plans and budget, but it seems to me that it is time to push off and the marginal benefit is relatively small. I do think Heather should take a hydrometer (available at auto parts stores for less than $15) and test the batteries every month or so (not underway). The graph here ( http://www.engineersedge.com/battery/specific_gravity_battery.htm ) should demonstrate the issue; John may be able to explain better than I. If he differs from my opinion please let me know and go with his advice.

I don't remember what caused S/V Hotwire to sink. I recall she went down at the dock, and was recovered after about 10 hours. Shore power and 12V power were all energized at the time and there was a lot of damage to the electrical system. Fortunately that is John's forte. I hope they are recovering. The boat and RV are the only homes they have I believe.

The KISS wind gen is made in Trinidad by a cruiser (American or Canadian I think) who landed there and never left. He does use some local labor but the design and quality checks are his. My understanding is that Trinidad, while definitely still a third-world country, has developed a fairly strong reasonable quality marine services industry, principally as a result of insurance companies driving sailors to get out of the hurricane belt during the season. There is a large ex-pat community there now, many of whom run those service companies.

So having told you how to build a watch when you just wanted to know what time it is, I hope all goes well straightening out the wind gen issue. I'm beginning to suspect that your the victim of poor advice from Ferris. If so that is most unfortunate.

best regards and wishes for happy new year,

dave
S/V Auspicious

It could also be that Ferris sold you a current model but is unaware or has forgotten the change made by the manufacturer.   If the AirX unit has been working properly, and it hasn't fried Heather's batteries, which are together only 150 amp-hours or half the necessary capacity for the older design... then the additional batteries and regulator shouldn't be necessary.

I agree with Dan. If the internal regulator meets the need, I would keep the extra batteries (can't have too many batteries!) and return the external regulator. It would mean John from Hotwire diagnosed himself out of business unfortunately.

If true, it doesn't speak well of Ferris however.

Gene -- please let us know how it all works out so that accolades and lashes are distributed appropriately.

dave
S/V Auspicious

Auspicious- I posted that same quote some time ago in this thread. I've been more than a tad suspicious of the tale since reading the website from Air-X.

SOMETHING is definitely not right here, and I would tend to go with the Air-X site, over whoever this "Ferris" guy is.

Hopefully the guy coming to help can get it all straightened out.

By the way, I had a wind generator on my trimaran for years, with no special equipment outside the unit- just hooked directly to a battery bank- all the controlling was internal. That was in the early 80s, so I'm sure progress has been made since then.

Quote from: Auspicious on December 31, 2007, 11:32:03 AMGene -- please let us know how it all works out so that accolades and lashes are distributed appropriately.

Funny, Dave - but a good idea. :) Keep us informed, Gene!

Quote from: Auspicious on December 31, 2007, 11:32:03 AM
I agree with Dan. If the internal regulator meets the need, I would keep the extra batteries (can't have too many batteries!) and return the external regulator.

Good point, I do think that 150 amp-hours is a bit small for a cruising boat's house bank, even if it is a boat as small as a Flicka.

QuoteIt would mean John from Hotwire diagnosed himself out of business unfortunately.

True, but he'll probably gain a good deal of business for his honesty and willingness to fix someone else's screwup.

QuoteIf true, it doesn't speak well of Ferris however.

Gene -- please let us know how it all works out so that accolades and lashes are distributed appropriately.

dave
S/V Auspicious

Yes, the beatings do need to be properly distributed. :)

Quote from: CharlieJ on December 31, 2007, 11:54:54 AM

SOMETHING is definitely not right here, and I would tend to go with the Air-X site, over whoever this "Ferris" guy is.

Not to defend the advice of Ferris on this issue (because I too am puzzled), but Ferris is one largest dealers of off-grid power products.  The company seems to cater more to off-grid and backup systems for homes than for marine/mobile use, but cannot see how THAT would lead them to comment as they have in regard to Flight of Years.

Thank you so very much Dave, AdriftAtSea, Charlie, CapnK and Captain Smollett for your concern and help!  It has meant a lot to Heather and me!

THIS IS THE WORST MARKETING FIASCO I'VE EVER ENCOUNTERED IN MY LIFETME.

For openers, I bought the Air-X from Hamilton Ferris, but nothing was ever said about battery sizes, nor extra regulators nor dump circuits - NOTHING.  And NONE OF THIS was in any of the literature nor installation manual.

So I installed the unit flawlessly - took me two weeks, where Ferris says it can be done in an afternoon.  Ha - ha - ha!

But then I decided it'd be wise to buy two new batteries, since these were eight years old.  And I thought I'd do well by purchasing the same make as came with the Flicka from the factory.  I'm dumb about electricity.  BUT I CALLED FERRIS' COMPANY AND TALKED WITH SOME MAN THERE WHO ASSURED ME THE PREVAILER BATTERIES WOULD WORK FINE WITH HIS AIR-X.

THEN, COME FOUR DAYS BEFORE EMBARKATION, FERRIS CALLS AND SAYS "NO, YOUR BATTERIES WON'T WORK WITH THIS AIR-X, AND NO, YOU MUST HAVE AN ADDITIONAL REGULATOR, AND NO, YOU MUST HAVE AN ADDITIONAL DUMP CIRCUIT.  OTHERWISE YOU WON'T HAVE ANY JUICE. AND I'LL SELL YOU TWO NEW BATTERIES AND THE REGULATOR AND THE DUMP CIRCUIT."

So Heather paid him for the batteries and the regulator, and he promised to send the dump circuit as soon as he could find one.

But then you told me about John Gambill and his company:  http://www.svhotwire.com/.

And this morning John drove up from Punta Gorda, examined the entire Air-X assembly thoroughly, and announced,

"NO, YOU DON'T NEED ANY OF THAT STUFF.  YES, THE BIGGER BATTERIES WOULD BE BETTER THAN YOUR SMALLER PREVAILERS, BUT YOU DON'T NEED THE REGULATOR AND YOU DON'T NEED ANY DUMP CIRCUIT.  I DON'T KNOW WHY FERRIS TOLD YOU THAT."

But then John opens Ferris' new batteries, and one of them is all crushed to pieces!

Two sides are totally caved in and destroyed!

So John then had to arrange for a battery company in Orlando to sell Heather two new, even larger batteries.  But, since they were closing at 3pm, they promised to leave the two new batteries in a special hiding place in Orlando, AND NOW JOHN IS ON HIS WAY TO ORLANDO - IN HEATHER'S CAR - A THREE OR FOUR HOUR DRIVE EACH WAY.  AND HE'S GOING TO PICK UP THE BATTERIES AND BRING THEM BACK HERE TO STEINHATCHEE TONIGHT, SO HE CAN FINISH THE WORK FIRST THING IN THE MORNING!

IS THIS A CHINESE FIRE DRILL OR WHAT!

And John checked out my Air-X installation, and it's putting out just fine!

So here's John, the expert, telling us we don't need all that stuff Ferris said we had to have.  And I got about a dozen emails from other experts, telling me we didn't need any of that.  And several of you gents told us we didn't have to have any of that stuff.  And Ferris' own literature NOWHERE MENTIONS ANYTHING WHATEVER ABOUT AN EXTRA REGULATOR NOR SPECIAL BATTERIES, NOR AN ADDITIONAL REGULATOR NOR A DUMP CIRCUIT.

YOU DECIDE!

Again, thank you so very much for all your help!

Gene (and Heather)
wwvv.solo-sailor.c0m

Gene,

When it rains it pours. I had a similar sort of incident not long ago with my car just one snafu followed by the next. I could not tell whether it was all bad luck or incompetent, dishonest mechanics.

We're rootin for you
Oded  :D

Sounds like Ferris has dropped the ball to say the least... and that svhotwire/John has definitely gone above and beyond the call of duty. :) Talk about customer service.

Yes, Heather and I are in love with John.  He is saving our day!

Of course the cost of all this is frightening, but John is very reasonable indeed.  We would recommend him AND HIS WIND ALTERNATORS ABOVE ALL OTHERS!  And he isn't just doing this for the money; he genuinely wants to help us.

Gene

Charlie -- I missed your earlier post with the quote. The Air-X information certainly did add to the confusion about Ferris' advise.

Kurt -- Not sure if you did, but I didn't intend anyone to interpret my comment about accolades and lashes to be applied to the contributers to this discussion, but to the various companies involved.

John Gambill from svhotwire.com has a great reputation that he has - in my mind - outshone in this instance. I've recommended him to a number of people in the past, but my enthusiasm is now nearly unbridled. It's a hoot that he's diving Heather's car to get the new batteries. <grin>

Clearly Ferris has some issues that will keep them off my list of preferred vendors. <grin> I hope Gene is able to return some of the extra gear they pushed him to purchase.

Gene -- I'm so very glad the recommendation of Hotwire has worked out. It's wonderful to find someone who looks for solutions that address your needs instead of their bottom line.

Are we back on for tomorrow, or still pushed a day or so?  Thinking good thoughts and wishes of a very happy new year!

sail fast, dave
S/V Auspicious

Hi Dave -

Just got a sat phone call from Heather, here at 10:00 pm.   John is still way down in Ocala - 2 1/2 hours from here, but on his way with the batteries!   And he's in Heather's car because his has a blown head gasket, and he has to stop frequently and fill up the radiator!

No, the weather is going to hold Heather back from leaving as scheduled.  Heather's a descent sailor, but too green to intentionally send out in the obstacle strewn, shallow Gulf, into gale force winds.  Which is what is coming.  Here's one synopsis:


SYNOPSIS
NORTHEAST FLOW OVER THE FORECAST WATERS AROUND 10
KNOTS WILL CONTINUE THIS EVENING. FLOW WILL SHIFT TOWARD MIDNIGHT
TO THE WEST AND NORTHWEST BETWEEN 10 AND 15 KNOTS IN ADVANCE OF A
STRONG ARCTIC COLD FRONT. THIS FRONT WILL PUSH THROUGH THE WATERS
EARLY TUESDAY MORNING WITH WIND AND SEAS RAPIDLY BUILDING TO
ADVISORY LEVELS FOR ALL LEGS. AS STRONG HIGH PRESSURE BUILDS DOWN
INTO THE SOUTHERN PLAINS TO OUR WEST THE COMBINATION OF A TIGHT
PRESSURE GRADIENT AND STRONG COLD AIR ADVECTION WILL INCREASE
WINDS EVEN FURTHER TUESDAY EVENING AND OVERNIGHT WITH SUSTAINED
FLOW BETWEEN 25 AND 30 KNOTS POSSIBLE OVER A LARGE AREA. IT IS
VERY POSSIBLE THAT GUSTS...OR EVEN FREQUENT GUST TO GALE FORCE
WILL OCCUR TUESDAY NIGHT INTO WEDNESDAY MORNING. ADVISORY LEVEL
WINDS AND SEAS WILL CONTINUE INTO WEDNESDAY NIGHT BEFORE SUBSIDING
TO THE CAUTIONARY RANGE DURING THURSDAY AS HIGH PRESSURE SLIDES TO
OUR NORTH.

And here's another:


SYNOPSIS
DIFFUSE STATIONARY FRONT FROM 29N83W TO 26N90W. STRONG
COLD FRONT MOVES OFF TX COAST LATE TONIGHT AND MOVES RAPIDLY SE
THROUGH WED. GALE FORCE WINDS EXPECTED BEHIND FRONT W OF 85W. WINDS
AND SEAS DIMINISH THU AND FRI. SE RETURN FLOW DEVELOPS SAT.

GMZ080-010330-
NW GULF N OF 25N W OF 90W
INCLUDING FLOWER GARDEN BANKS NATIONAL MARINE SANCTUARY
330 PM CST MON DEC 31 2007

GALE WARNING TUE S OF 28N

TONIGHT
NE WINDS 10 KT...BECOMING N 25 TO 30 KT AND GUSTY BEHIND
FRONT. SEAS 2 TO 3 FT...BUILDING TO 9 FT BEHIND FRONT.

TUE
N WINDS 30 TO 35 KT...EXCEPT 25 KT N OF 28N. SEAS BUILDING 9
TO 14 FT.

So, instead of pulling away from the dock to make her crowd happy, she's going to invite them all into the pub, there at her marina, for a free beer and conversation on her.

They'll like that better than seeing her sail away!

I'm sure whichever one of you dudes it was who had the glass of red wine out on his deck, while he was fixing breakfast, would much prefer the free brews?

But also, the electrical system won't be ready until at least noon today (Tuesday).

ANYWAY - I'll let you know the minute she shoves off.

Thanks again for all your great help!

Gene

A seamanly decision.

Happy New year to both of you and good luck Heather.

very prudent... and a good alternative for the well-wishers...

Thursday is looking like a reach in reduced winds/seas  ;D

I was wiring up a wind generator and a solar panel and called Hotwire for some advice that I couldn't find anywhere. He told me exactly what  I needed to know to wire it.

I needed a controller for the solar panel. It was a few dollars cheaper elsewere on the web but I bought it from John because his advice was worth lots more than the few dollars.

After reading this thread I am even more glad I did. Next time I need something Hotwire will be the first place I call.

Hi Frank -

No, Heather's first 92 miles will be on a course of 197 degrees true, and with winds forecast to be out of the NNE Thursday morning, she'd be on almost a dead run, the worst of all for her Monitor and for sailing.  Wing and wing - using the big main with a preventer - as you know - is not wise in heavy seas; too easy to dip the boom in the water and break a mast.  But the wind will shift to NE that afternoon, so Heather won't have time to set up her twin jibs wing and wing that morning.  And she might be able to broad reach in the afternoon, like you said.

As of this moment, she's planning on embarking on the high tide (11:15am) tomorrow morning, the 3rd.

The weather all this week is going to be rough as a cob, but the problem is, if she doesn't get out there and get some miles behind her, another front will probably roar in about the 12th or 13th, then she'd be stuck for another week or whatever.

I'm telling you, this leg from here to Panama will be the very worst she will have around the world!  And that's unfortunate, because she is still a relatively new sailor.  Competent, but new.

I'll keep you posted....

Thanks for your kind words.

Gene
wwvv.solo-sailor.com

Did you get the electrical system all squared away??  How big are the new batteries???  Thursday sounds like a good compromise, given the forecast and all.

Hi Adrift At Sea -

Yes, the electrical system is perfect now.  Actually, it was perfect just as I installed it in the first place, but the bigger batteries will give her a little more juice when there's not enough wind to work the Air-X.

I don't know what his motives were, in attempting to sell Heather those hundreds of dollars worth of additional equipment, but she needed none of it.  I'm just going to assume Ham was mistaken.

All you need a good wind generator and two descent, large capacity batteries.

HOWEVER, I WOULD NOT BUY ANOTHER AIR-X, I WOULD BUY A KISS WIND ALTERNATOR FROM JOHN AT http://www.svhotwire.com/.

And I would switch to LED running lights all around.  She's going to be using horrendous amounts of electricity at night, with her all-around masthead light and the navigation lights, to say nothing of the steaming light, if she needs to use it.  We did switch to all LED lights in the cabin.

And I would probably also add one or two solar panels, in addition to the wind alternator.

Let me tell you, if I were a serious Flicka or similar cruiser, say in San Francisco or wherever, I would add a wind alternator to my boat and a Monitor self-steeing system.  They're NOT just for circumnavigators!

Yes, I have not seen them, but the new batteries are larger than the originals, but they still fit in the battery indentations in the base of the Flicka battery compartment.

Yes, Heather's all set to go out on the tide tomorrow morning.

I'll let you know either way....

Gene

I have an LED-based tricolor/anchor/strobe masttop light on my boat... and wouldn't go back to standard lighting if you paid me.  I'm surprised you didn't put an LED-tricolor/anchor light on her boat at a minimum.  The steaming light doesn't strike me as needing to be LED, since, if you're motoring, electricity shouldn't be much of an issue. :)

The only problem with the KISS is the size of the rotor.  The rotor is 60" or five feet in diameter.  That's a pretty big rotor for a small sailboat... and a bit too large and too much of a hazard IMHO. 

If I were going to get a wind generator for my boat, I'd probably go for the Duogen unit, since it can be used as a water generator while underway, as well as a wind generator while at anchor.  The rotor diameter is about 3-1/2' or so... making mounting it simpler.

Does Heather have a standard electric autopilot in addition to the wind  vane, or just the wind vane??

Another question, when Heather is sleeping, is she going to fly two red lights above one another—which stand for vessel not under command—or not?  Also, does Flight have radar or just the CARD unit.

I did not go with LED nav lights because I knew she would have ample electricity, and LEDs are not nearly as bright as hers.  I changed her lights for brightness and long life.   I was willing to sacrifice a little juice, of which she'll have plenty, for the brighter lights.

She will be running the steaming light at times other than when motoring - e.g., when a ship is about to run her down at night.  Plus her steaming light has the bottom light which shines on the deck, e.g., for sail changing.

No, the KISS rotor size would be no problem.  You need it up high anyway.  The Air-X also has a huge rotor, but you can't reach it from the deck, nor even come close to reaching it.  Ditto the KISS.

And, forgive me for sounding argumentative, I definitely would not get a Dougen.  I've heard nothing but bad reports on it - repeatedly - and I can tell you from first hand experience, the water accessory will only last a few minutes at sea, until a shark or other large fish takes it.  You cannot even use a log at sea.  I've tried for years and years.  No log rotor lasts more than a few hours before a shark gets it.

No, heather does not have an electric autopilot; the majority of circumnavigators don't.  And I never used one in all my ocean voyaging, even when sailing from Denmark to Portugal, for example.  A Monitor is all you need, unless you like to spend hours or days motoring.  And I never had any motors, and Heather hates motoring.  So she doesn't need an autopilot.

No, Heather will not be flying two red lights.  No one would see them anyway, where she is going.  The ships don't even see your boat all lit up, let alone a couple of little extra red lights.  And they wouldn't care, even if they did see them.  We don't live in that kind of world.

No, she does not have radar, and doesn't really need it.  She'll never be entering a strange port at night, nor will she be near land at night, and her C.A.R.D. tells her the position of any approaching ship.

Cheers,

Gene

Oh dear, thats bad, news. It would have been worse if I had already sprung for one. SailFar saves the day again!

Quote from: FLIGHT on January 02, 2008, 03:00:14 PM


And, forgive me for sounding argumentative, I definitely would not get a Dougen.  I've heard nothing but bad reports on it - repeatedly - and I can tell you from first hand experience, the water accessory will only last a few minutes at sea, until a shark or other large fish takes it.  You cannot even use a log at sea.  I've tried for years and years.  No log rotor lasts more than a few hours before a shark gets it.

I've found that my LED masthead anchor light or tricolor for that matter, is usually the brightest in any given anchorage.  That combined with the longer life, lower energy requirements and reliability are the main reasons I went with a masttop LED anchor/tricolor fixture.

I think the strobe I have in my masttop tricolor is a better solution for when ships are nearby.  Better than the steaming light, since shining a steaming light will indicate falsely that you're under power, and change the right of way priorities.

As for the Duogen—I seriously doubt a shark would attack it... it doesn't use a towed impeller... it uses an impeller on a shaft, that is just below the hull... much like the prop on an outboard motor... and I've never seen a shark attack an outboard. You're obviously not familiar with the Duogen's design.  Most of the press I've read and the experiences my friend's have had with theirs has been good.

Electric autopilots have come a long way, and are used by circumnavigators... however, wind vanes are still preferable, but there are advantages and disadvantages to both.  Having both gives you more options.

Hi Adrift at Sea (I wish I could call you by your name) -

I am so glad you're happy with your LED all around light, and it's nice yours is brighter than all the others in your anchorages.  Believe it or not, or perhaps you already are aware, sometimes it's difficult to find your way back to your own boat in your inflatable, when there are many yachts in one small anchorage.  Even if you're sober.  In fact, Heather and I talked of the possibility of pasting a foot or two of self-stick reflective silver tape on all three sides of her mast, just below the mast head, so her flashlight would pick up her mast at night in a crowded anchorage.  But you have that solved.  And, of course, if you turn on your strobe you've really got a singular light - easy to find.  That's great.

I always buy lights by the number of lumens, since I don't have time to test each light out in anchorages.  And the ones I selected for Heather's all-around light and steaming lights are the highest number of lumens on the market.  This is not true of the other nav lights; they are simply stock Flicka units.

As for showing the steaming light at night, out in the ocean, when a ship is heading your way, you show everything you can, including your hand-held spot light, and hopefully a brilliantly white parachute flare.  The ships at sea cannot discern which is your steaming light at all, even if you're fortunate enough for them to see all your lights and your parachute flare. Much less find you as a blip on their radar monitor.   Once in the North Atlantic it was only my hand-held spotlight that saved my wife and me from being run over by a ship coming out of the Kiel Canal.  He didn't see any of our other nav lights at all.  Nor our 25' engineless Folkboat.  But he turned when I flashed my spotlight back and forth across his bridge, and he finally came out and shone a 3' search light on us, way down in the water below him, to see who we were.

Then he changed course.

That's fine about your Duogen.  Yes, forgive me, I'm very familiar with the English built Duogen design.  I considered it before going with Air-X.  If you like the Duogen, by all means go for it.  But yes, the shark will take the shaft and impeller, and yes, if you'll inquire of the shark hunters, for example in West End Bahamas, they'll tell you sharks frequently attack their running inboard/outboard propellors!  But again, if you're sold on it, please do buy yourself the Duogen, and ignore anything I've said to the contrary.

Yes, of course, electric autopilots have come a long way.  I was sailing before there were any for yachts.  But they are useless for someone under sail, which is what I have always been, and which Heather will almost always be.  The only one disadvantage of the Monitor is that it will not steer in a dead calm.  But, with no engines, I've never sailed in a dead calm.  And Heather will not be sailing if a calm comes here way.  As I said, she loathes motoring.  She'll be taking advantage of the R&R the calm provides.

However, one night, off the Eddystone Light in the English Channel my wife and I sailed for hours with just only a hint of a breeze, and our Monitor (a German copy of a Monitor) steered flawlessly for us.

But yes, by all means, if you like to motor and like to have self-steeing while you're motoring, so buy an autopilot.  Absolutely.  They're just fine for motoring.

But now, if you don't mind too much, I'd like to discontinue this prattle.  Suddenly you and I will be arguing, and I wish to avoid that at all costs.  Let us each just go our own way, and I do indeed wish you the very happiest new year of your entire life.

And thank you very much for your thoughts.

Gene

Best wishs to Heather...fair winds and GREAT adventures!!!

Thank you so very much Frank -

Heather's so excited about it, understandably, she's about to go bonkers.

I can't imagine how I would be!  You'd have to tie me down!

It's gonna' be cold as the proverbial Siberian brass toilet seat for her in the morning (wind chill factor!), but she has a balaclava, two sets of long johns, a dozen or more hand warmers, lots of clothing, sailing boots and heavy industrial foul weather gear, so she's got all that covered.

She's at a friend's house just this minute, bringing her web site up to date, so you might check it later tonight - www dot solo-sailor dot com

My wife and I will drive down to Steinhatchee in the morning to see her off.

Thank you so very much for your kind words.

Gene

Gene-

I don't see why you think electric autopilots are only useable under power... they work quite well under sail from what I've seen.  

I also don't see how you can conclude that I like to motor from what I've said.  Personally, I abhor motoring.  The only time I use mine is to get by the swing bridge, since they do not allow you to sail through said bridge.  

While I have to agree that in an emergency, you use whatever lights or devices you possibly can to help avoid a collision—I just don't see a steaming light as being helpful, especially as it might confuse the situation.  This is my opinion... and you're entitled to yours.

Is Flight of Years equipped with a radar reflector in addition to the CARD??? While the CARD helps you know that the ships are there, it doesn't help you show up on their radar.  

Gene..."cold" is a relative term as I sit here in northern Ontario Canada at -18  ;D   Hope all goes well for Heather...she'll do FINE !!!!!!!!

You sissy, Frank!

TONIGHT - THIS VERY NIGHT - HERE IN FLORIDA - SUNNY NORTH CENTRAL FLORIDA - OUR WEATHER FORECAST IS FOR SEVENTEEN DEGREES!

And the wind here at our home, right on the Suwannee River, is about 15 knots.  YOU figure out the chill factor!

Heather will be cold tomorrow.

Gene

Hope she has good thermos for the coffee... she's gonna need it. :)

Guess what, Dan.

She doesn't drink coffee.

But thanks for the idea.

Gene

Cocoa, tea or soup then... :)

again, interesting- we use our electric tiller pilot under sail, quite nicely. I AM building a wind vane, so we'll have three distinct ways of self steering- we've used sheet to tiller for several days at a time quite successfully offshore, and the tiller pilot does a good job too. But having all three makes it even better.

Hi Charlie -

That's great!  You use an electric tiller pilot under sail.  I've never talked with anyone who has worked that successfully - obviously there's a lot I still need to learn.   To operate adequately, of course, your tiller pilot would have to take or ease the sheets during a wind change.  And I've heard of electronic steering systems which also so do indeed control the sheets, but I've never heard anyone who has actually used one.  Tell me about it.

Yes, you're absolutely right.  I used only self steering for my first thirty years of sailing - i.e., without wind vane equipment.  I hadn't heard of wind vanes, if there were any back then.  I never used a sheet to tiller direct arrangement, because I could never make that work for long.  But I used combinations of surgical rubber tubing and block and tackle units.  Never had any trouble at all, except that they weren't nearly as true as the Monitor.  But many folks have sailed around the world with nothing more.

You've got it all covered!

Thank you for your input.

Gene

Did you say 17 degrees??? I hope that's Celsius you're talking about, not Fahrenheit...  :o

I'll be in Florida in 30 days, maybe when you get this epic journey well under way you can bring back some warm weather again  ;)

Fair winds Heather!!

SEVENTEEN TONIGHT.

I don't know whether this daily Mayo Weatherforecast URL will work, but here's where it says 17F!

http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?CityName=Mayo&state=FL&site=TAE&textField1=30.051&textField2=-83.1767&e=1

Sure - you may need to tweak the course slightly once in a while- keeps you awake ;D

Seriously, we find that the wind is constant enough around here anyway, to sail for many hours without any adjustment- the wind does swing a bit ( oscillates, but often not enough to require sail shifting. In other areas, that might not be true of course.

We use sheet to tiller as outlined in Letcher's book, but there is a really good write up online here-

http://www.jsward.com/steering/index.shtml

We've adopted the surgical tubing set up he shows. In fact, there's a video of us sailing out in the GOM using it, stored here on SailFar if I could just recall the URL ;D

Hmmmmmm....

Some guy put a post on a forum just the other other day telling me he had an electronic tiller steering which would also handle the sheets.

I was hoping you had something similar.

But I should think such a device would be terribly expensive to produce.

Thanks anyway.

Gene

Two things to add...1- I've sailed over 1000  knm with an 12V autohelm..a joy to use..even for a 'techno phobe' like me (they must be simple)  2- here is my home forecast for tonight..." Humidity: 67%
Dew Point: -8 °F / -22 °C 
Wind: 5.0 mph / 8 km/h from the WNW   
Wind Gust: -
Pressure: 30.44 in / 1030.7 hPa(Rising) 
Windchill: -12 °F / -24 °C 
Visibility: 9.0 miles / 14.5 kilometers 
UV: 0 out of 16
Clouds: Clear -
(Above Ground Level) "....see, 17 ain't so bad ;D

It's 33 here now, forecast to go low 20's, and the boat is already pretty cold. I'll be climbing into the sleeping bag early tonight. :) Looking forward to Saturday!

Gene - tell Heather that I said Feel Free to post the email I sent her, if she is looking for something else to do. ;) lol

QuoteTonight
Clear and cold. Lows in the lower 20s. Northwest winds 10 to 15 mph.

Thursday
Sunny. Highs in the lower 40s. North winds 10 to 20 mph.

Thursday Night
Clear. Lows in the lower 20s. North winds 5 to 10 mph.

Friday and Friday Night
Clear. Highs in the upper 40s. Lows in the lower 20s. North winds 5 to 10 mph.
   
Saturday
Sunny in the morning...then becoming partly cloudy. Highs in the lower 60s.

Gene - there ARE electric autopilots with wind vane input also- a small vane that connects to the pilot. I had one on my trimaran when I lived aboard. unfortunately I had an AutoHelm 300 something and never could keep it working very long- it was NOT water proof. Every time I had it in use and ran through a rainstorm it quit. The AutoHelm people told me to put a milk jug over it >:( after they replaced it the second time.

A lot of the autopilots, like the Raymarine ones, can use input from the wind instruments to steer based on apparent wind direction.  The ST60 wind instruments can "talk" to the Raymarine autopilots via a Seatalk connection. 

The round-the-world solo sailors use electronic autopilots all the time, and none of them, as far as I have heard, have ever used an autopilot that adjusted the sheets at all.

Then again, even windvanes don't adjust the sheets at all.  If anyone has designed one, I haven't seen or heard of it.

That's great guys!  I'm happy for you!

I'm glad most of you are having great success using an electric autopilot for sailing - without an engine.

Heather doesn't have one on my advice, so don't blame her; blame dumb old me.

Happy new year anyway!

Gene

Tsk, tsk, tsk, Adrift at sea, here's the approved list of the Slocum Society solo circumnavigators.

You say, "The round-the-world solo sailors use electronic autopilots all the time...."

Which of these sixty did so?  Smile!

Gene

Oops - here's the list: http://www.joshuaslocumsocietyintl.org/solo/solotable.htm

OK fellas, let's keep it on an even keel, and a straight course. :)

We can have differences here, that's fine and healthy - but let's do so while being respectful of others both in manner and intent. Remember -

We're all small boat sailors.

There ain't enough of us to be squabbling amongst ourselves. ;D

Thanks!

Kurt

Gene, I took Adrift's reference to be the solo racers (though he could have meant something else...that's just how I took his comment).

A lot of those guys probably do use electronic autopilots, though many do use windvanes.  With relatively deep pockets of sponsors to foot the bill for replacements, various race rules and LOTS of other electronic gadgetry aboard anyway,  I think it's a better "fit" for them than for the small boat voyager.  That's just my opinion, though.

I don't have a tiller pilot and have no plans to spend $$ on one.  I do, however, also use sheet-to-tiller gear (with the elastic bands) and plan to build a wind vane.

One thing I really like about sailing and sailors is that no two are alike.  Every boat is outfitted differently and we each choose the compromises we make.  Reading this discussion has helped me remember that.

In other words, ya don't have to justify WHY you put something on board or did not put it on board...When it's yer boat, ye get to pick the tools that go aboard.  Right?

Please wish Heather a peaceful journey.

Gene- that list , in my mind anyway, is a tiny bit suspect. The Slocum Society makes theier own rules as to who gets on that list and it isn't always fair.

For example, Tania Aebi was refused her solo listing because she had a passenger for one 90 mile leg, even though she sailed back to the beginning of that leg and resailed it solo.

Also some one is shown as "smallest yacht" that had a boat larger than Trekka.

There are several others who have been denied the list for one technicality or another.

I notice Dame Ellen Mac Arthur isn't listed either- hasn't she done a single hand circumnav? That's what she was knighted for isn't it?

By the way- tell Heather that many more than she knows are pulling for her. We here have been since we first read her website.

Sorry CapnK, but I've had it up to my ears with these Monday morning quarterbacks who have never sailed out any further than they could wade ashore, and never shall.  No guts.  But, when someone like my daughter comes along and works 43 years to prepare herself for a solo sail around the world, and when her dad, me, who has done deep ocean sailing for over a half century helps her prepare herself and her boat, the self-proclaimed experts jump all over us

They pound on me and my daughter, and tell us how stupid we are for doing this and not doing that.  And how lubberly it is to have this equipment aboard and not that equipment, when the truth is all they know about ocean sailing is what they've read out of boating magazines.  And what they fantasize.

They're never going to make it, and that frustrates them, so they take it out on those of us who have made it.

Shame on them.

Gotta' go see my daughter off on her voyage this morning.

No more time of your experts.

I won't be back.

Gene

Good luck to Heather.I see Florida is cold today...hope she has her 'woolies' on ;D  We are rooting for her.

Gene,

I hope you will come back. Many people are excited about the adventure Heather is launching and in their desire to help contributed the best ideas they have (of variable quality <grin>). We all learn from the discussion. We should all be kind to each other, as Kurt noted above. Sometimes enthusiasm overwhelms us a bit.

I certainly don't agree with every single choice you and Heather made outfitting Flight of Years. You probably wouldn't agree with every choice I made outfitting Auspicious (two television sets leap to mind <grin>). If we bothered to explore each instance of disagreement we would find -- if we could an objective judge -- either I was wrong, you were wrong, or our priorities were different and we are both right in the context of those priorities.

Sometimes it is just a matter of having a particular piece of information or niche skill.

Quote from: FLIGHT on January 02, 2008, 03:00:14 PMAnd, forgive me for sounding argumentative, I definitely would not get a Dougen.

I agree with Gene, although probably for different reasons. I had the opportunity to explore the Duogen at a boat show a few years ago (Southhampton I think). The fellow in the booth explained the conversion from wind to water mode and was willing to let me make the swap. I was impressed with the engineering and simplicity. It took less than a minute to make the change. The Duogen guy hung on to me for an hour as a "demo" in the booth. Maybe I'm a fast learner; he was pleased to be able to have me change modes and say "this guy just did it for the first time this morning." That said, I have enough on the back of my boat without adding something else that not only takes space but requires clearances I don't want to provide. I also recall the power generation curve wasn't all that impressive compared to other wind generators. I tried to look that up to confirm, but the Duogen web site doesn't agree with my security settings.

Quote from: FLIGHT on January 02, 2008, 03:00:14 PMNo, heather does not have an electric autopilot; the majority of circumnavigators don't.

I think you will find that is changing. For a small boat however and in my opinion a vane is a better fit for long distance cruising for a number of reasons. First and most importantly, the electrical power generation on a small boat, even with alternative energy sources like wind and solar, will be hard pressed to keep up with an autopilot sturdy enough to steer the boat at sea. Vanes -- particularly servo-pendulum models -- become more powerful as wind speed increases. Secondly, as boats get larger (and generally have greater power generation capacity -- I can run my generator for 240 hours on fuel in tanks and my boat is only a little bigger than "small" -- that will get me quite far on 3 hours run time to charge batteries every other day) they get faster. Faster boats move the apparent wind forward of the beam at deeper and deeper angles relative to true wind and vanes become less accurate. Thirdly, the advance in technology that allows the autopilot to take input from GPS, gyroscopes, magnetic compasses, and wind instruments to run in "vane mode" make electronic autopilots very versatile, assuming you have the space and wherewithal to carry appropriate spares.

On my boat, which fits in the middle between small and really big/fast, I could have gone either way. I chose an electronic autopilot in recognition that winds can be light to non-existant in my home waters and sometimes I need to get home to go to work. If I were outfitting for a world cruise I might have chosen differently (or fitted both an electronic autopilot and a Hydrovane).

Quote from: FLIGHT on January 02, 2008, 03:00:14 PMNo, she does not have radar, and doesn't really need it.  She'll never be entering a strange port at night, nor will she be near land at night, and her C.A.R.D. tells her the position of any approaching ship.

Forgive me for belaboring the obvious, and I'm sure you and Heather recognize this, but fishing boats can be as big or bigger threat than ships and often don't have radar.

Quote from: FLIGHT on January 02, 2008, 05:22:56 PMIn fact, Heather and I talked of the possibility of pasting a foot or two of self-stick reflective silver tape on all three sides of her mast, just below the mast head, so her flashlight would pick up her mast at night in a crowded anchorage.

I think that is a wonderful idea. I have a trip up the mast in my plans and I'll be carrying retroreflective material with me. Thanks.

Quote from: FLIGHT on January 02, 2008, 05:22:56 PMAs for showing the steaming light at night, out in the ocean, when a ship is heading your way, you show everything you can, including your hand-held spot light, and hopefully a brilliantly white parachute flare.

I haven't been pushed to firing a flare, but I certainly have shown a spotlight on my sails and in a couple of instances across the bridge of a fishing boat.

I listened to the Cruiseheimers net on SSB this morning, hearing the boats in Florida hunkered down in the cold, and my thoughts were with Heather and the start of her grand adventure.

I hope you will stay and talk with us here Gene. I've been a participant on this board for quite some time, welcomed even though my boat is "too big." I'm confident that while enthusiasm may have reigned a bit, the intentions of all where positive and supportive.

sail fast, dave
S/V Auspicious

Well, Gene lasted longer here than on any of the other boards, before he went away in a huff. I'm sorry to see that, as I was really looking forward to his updates as Heather made her voyage. It seems to be the top board going for small boat voyaging.But it IS a "discussion" board, and not one where people just roll over to someones ideas.Many of us here DO HAVE open ocean experience, so our ideas aren't really "half cocked"

And I didn't see anyone "Jumping all over" him. Merely discussing points. Gene, if you can't understand that, maybe you SHOULD just go away, cause you'd never be happy here, cause we ARE gonna kick things around..

You DID apparently get really good advice on wind generator help though.

I hope he comes back. I sent him an e-mail to that effect. There is nothing like experience to feed our dreams.

This is a Discussion Forum, so it is unfortunate that Gene took umbrage at the discussion everyone was having.

If he comes back, I do hope he'll keep that in mind, and also the fact that no one person is perfect and right in every way and on every topic.*

We learn by discussing, by the give and take of the conversations.






*With the exception, of course, of Chuck Norris (http://"http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=1360.0").  ;D :D ;D

I didn't see any one jumping on Gene... I also didn't see any one calling him or Heather stupid.  As others have said, there isn't really any right way to outfit a boat, and there are both pros and cons to any piece of equipment. 

It would seem that if someone disagrees with his way of doing things, it is necessarily wrong. 

I wouldn't necessarily agree with his statement that Heather has spent 43 years preparing herself for this... given how recently she picked up sailing—from what I understand, from her own website, she's only been sailing a bit over a year. 

I do wish Heather the best and hope she got off safely inspite of her dislocated thumb... 

Long term sailors are an interesting lot. I to am getting to a point where I do not wish to be around certian types. I can take a lot but why. Also, being 6 foot 4 inches 275 pounds a mistake by me can cost me my cruising. To many places to go to. Why bother with this.

However it is recommended, by several sources, to have an electric auto pilot for those days when you have to motor and enough fuel to get you over 400 miles. It is their choice to put one on or not, as was mine on my boat. I have to live with what I did.

I hope Gene and Heather well. The Yahoo Flicka Board has updates.

I hope someone can find out whether Heather left or not, being way up here in Iowa it's kinda hard to do.  I'm trying to follow her on her map on the website but according to it she has not moved.  It has always been a dream of mine to do what she is and thats why it is so exciting for i and my 11 yr old daughter

And just what is the Yahoo Flicka site for those of us who don't know?

Marc- hang onto that dream and hang around here- LOTS of us share the same dreams

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Flicka20/

Thank You Frank

I know this thread is about Heather and her Flicka 20 but to me it is so much more. I would just like to say Gene please come back. It is people like you that I learn from to gain knowledge so that I can make the right decisions.

David

Thanks Frank- but I found I had my browser set to not accept Yahoo cookies, cause I really don't much care for yahoo forums. I can't get in. But I read the first post'

I wish her all the luck in the world on her trip.

Quote from: CapnK on January 03, 2008, 02:48:37 PM

I do hope he'll keep that in mind, and also the fact that no one person is perfect and right in every way and on every topic.*


*With the exception, of course, of Chuck Norris.  ;D :D ;D

Arrrr, those be true words Cap'n. A fine and wise man Mr. Norris be......

Somebody (named Jim) posted on the West Wight Potter forum that Heather had left. Unverified just passing it on.

Tim

Hi Tim!

Thanks for the heads up! :)







PS - Just realized that you were Tim "Morning Dove" from TSBB! lol Welcome aboard! :D

Quote from: CapnK on January 04, 2008, 12:28:15 AM

PS - Just realized that you were Tim "Morning Dove" from TSBB! lol Welcome aboard! :D

Oh no!!!  Not a TSBB-er.

Just kidding.  Welcome aboard, Tim.     ;D

 :D Yeh, I've been lurkin for about a year now, spend WAY too much time on TSBB, didn't want to start another habit ;D

OH NO!

Tim

Now just how would you spend too much time on TSBB? I know I certainly don't ;D

Laura is now saying "liar, liar, pants on fire" ;D ;D ;D

  ;)  Ahem...I noticed that you, Charlie have been the TOP poster over there for awhile ::)

 
Today, Wednesday, January 3rd, at 12 noon, Heather Neill and s/y FLIGHT of YEARS pulled away from the dock, on a first course of 197 degrees true, into 22 knot of NNE wind, short period wind waves.Temp with wind chill 26%. Averaging 5.6-5.7 on a reach.

full info here  http://www.flicka20.com/

Yeah, yeah- I know- #1 gasbag on TSBB. Normally Noemi's slot.

Thanks Frank... :)

Just tried the little locating map on Heathers site under 'where is she now'.If you zoom in..it shows her on land.....either a BIG wave or the site's not working  :o

Frank, I noticed that also.  I think the site just has not been updated yet.  At least when I checked earlier today, hoping to hear something of her first day out, it seemed the last update for that position was 22 September 2007.

Hopefully, we'll hear something soon.

I can see why Dr. Gene is upset and has had it up to eye balls with all of our tittering even though we mean well. He, and I'm sure his wife, have been under a lot of pressure this last year or two helping their daughter,Heather, getting things ready for the BIG VOYAGE. The thousands and thousands of details that go into an enterprise of this magnitude must be overwhelming. I'm sure that they have all the faith in the world that their daughter and her boat BUT, it is still THEIR daughter that is going to OUT THERE. My wife Sandy and I know the feeling that parents get in this situation. Our son was in the First Gulf War...need I say more ???? So let's give them a little slack and hope he'll come back and talk to us after some of the pressure is off.

Fair wind and full sails

Pappy Jack

I heard directly from Gene. Apparently there have been some minor challenges:

QuoteNumber one, she got locked out of the salon.  There is a little sliding catch inside so you can lock the sliding hatch when you're inside.  And the seas were so rough the latch slid shut by itself, and she couldn't get below, so she had to break out the thick plastic drop board I made for her, so she could get below to the GPSs, etc.  But now she has a huge hole where the drop board used to be.  Dangerous at sea.

Then one of the clasps on her top-of-the-line safety harness broke; also her engine went out (not in this order), and she has only reverse gear.

But she's closer here than Isla Mujeres, so she's heading back from way out in the Gulf of Mexico to fix all this.

It's hilarious:  Everybody asked about her shakedown cruise, and I said there's no such thing as a shakedown cruise.  Every time you pull away from your dock you're on a shakedown cruise.  Not one thing went wrong on her solo 170 mile shakedown cruise.  But now that the real thing comes along - look what happens!

The latch problem is interesting. It is causing me to rethink how I fit a way to lock the boat when I am below (currently I can only lock it from outside). Subtext is she was sailing with all the boards in and the slide closed which is good practice to my mind.

The harness failure is attention getting, isn't it?

It sounds more like a transmission problem than an engine one - probably just a linkage.

Thanks for the update—

Safety harnesses are pretty simple beasties... so I'm wondering how the clip broke? 

As for the hatch, I do have mine setup so I can lock it from the inside... however, that requires me to swap out the top dropboard for a different one, that has the lock on it.  There is no way it can lock without human interaction, since it is basically a deadbolt lock.  It sounds like her design was one that automatically latched if the hatch was slid completely shut... which IMHO is not a good design. Granted, mine is probably a bit more complicated to use, but I'd rather not risk getting locked out of my own boat while singlehanding. :)

I'm actually surprised though that she didn't have spare dropboards on board her boat.  They do get lost and damaged, especially on something as long as a circumnavigation. 

I wonder why the engine/tranny decided to act up now?

Quote from: AdriftAtSea on January 06, 2008, 08:42:14 AMIt sounds like her design was one that automatically latched if the hatch was slid completely shut... which IMHO is not a good design. Granted, mine is probably a bit more complicated to use, but I'd rather not risk getting locked out of my own boat while singlehanding.

I interpreted it differently. Obviously guessing, I visualized a conventional barrel bolt mounted to the bottom of the sliding hatch. That would mean if the little handle jiggles down from vibration the bolt could slide locked (or unlocked for that matter) in a seaway.

Quote from: AdriftAtSea on January 06, 2008, 08:42:14 AMI wonder why the engine/tranny decided to act up now?

The statement that "she only has reverse" makes me think it is a linkage that dropped off -- either the end fitting of a cable or a cotter that fell off its pin and allowed something to come loose.

I don't want to criticize but as far as the transmisson problem goes and if its just the cable she should be able to handle that at sea. Even if the cable is broke she could shift it by hand to get into port. Someone there would help her dock if she had to get in a tight spot.

I would think the harness problem could be handled at sea also even if she had to use a piece of line or a snap shackle off or something else.

The hatch board might be another thing entirely as she needs to be able to keep the water out of the boat. Maybe that is enough reason to head back.

What ever the situation is I wish her the best of luck and hope this setback doesn't dishearten her too much.

Hi Walt- welcome aboard by the way.

What I don't really understand is why go back to Steinhatchee? It's up wind. Why not , if you were going back in at all, go in somewhere further south to save whatever southing you already made. Ft Myers comes to mind. That puts her more on a reach getting inshore.

Of course, not being ON the boat makes it purely second guessing, but that's what I'd do.

Well, Steinhatchee does have the advantage of being somewhat familiar grounds for Heather, and she does know the area around Steinhatchee a bit.  Also, she may not have charts for Ft. Myers, which would be a bit of poor planning, since having charts of possible ports of refuge is generally a good idea.

Let's not criticize from our cozy chairs many miles from this amazing woman who is doing what many of us wish we had the nards to do!!

I don't know what happened, and I don't know why she's going where she's going, but I trust she is a capable captain of her vessel, so I'll just wish her the best.

I do hope I can follow her as she lives her dream! Please don't pick at every decision and action and point out why it's not perfect in your mind.

If she has a motor problem and she wants to come home, great! Maybe it could be worked around at sea, but that's not important. She is doing what she wants to do, and that's the whole point of her trip isn't it?

Not trying to pick at her Lost Lake- I'm full of admiration for her and mean no criticism at all.

With a sailing wife, who  singlehands our boat, around here we much admire women like Heather ( and Ellen MacArthur) who get out there and DO it.

Just trying to understand is all, and without being on board of course that's second guessing. But as a long time sailor, I just wondered about the choice of port is all. Beating back to a port is hard work.

Of course, at the moment, Steinhatchee has zero wind.

I am not sure one is "second guessing" or criticizing by speculating on the motivations or reasons for decisions made on board. I am pretty sure all of us who have been out there and had to make decisions like that have later when back at shore speculated how thing might have been done.

Until we get some more info I think that's all we can do and that's OK

Myself, I think there might be more to it because she is coming all the way back, but I certainly don't know why.

QuoteLet's not criticize from our cozy chairs many miles from this amazing woman who is doing what many of us wish we had the nards to do!!

Gee I'm sorry I though this was a discussion board. If someone is going to get their nickers in a twist everytime someone speculates about something there won't be much to talk about.

I never said she shouldn't come back I just didn't think that the transmisson or harness problem would be enough to stop what appears to be a very capeable woman. I just think that there is  more to it than we are getting.

Not that there is anything bad about regrouping and starting over, some of the best cruisers have had to come back to the port they left for one reason or another. Heck I know of a small boat sailor that posts here that has had the Gulf send him back to the ICW on at least one occasion.

I also know several Valiant owners that have sailed all over the world who avoid the gulf like the plague. Mark Schrader was quoted as saying that if he never sailed across the Gulf Of Mexico again it would be too soon. Rich Worstell (owner of Valiant Yachts)  told me that he will never sail there again. I met a couple with a 40+' Panda who got beat up so bad in the gulf that they said they just went below and closed up the boat and waited to die. The boat was tougher than they were and eventually the storm passed and they were ok. They are lake sailors now.

So what ever Heather does my hats off to her for tackling the gulf on the first leg of her voyage and I hope its the worst she has to endure.

I'll wait and see what happens here before I post anything else.

Well I'm not as seasoned as any one of you, I have very little time in my sailboats!

I'm not trying to pick on any one post, but I get the feeling I know how Gene felt before he left.  :(

If she has a wind based autopilot, she should have tried electric.
If she gets new batteries, she should have stayed with the original ones.
If she wants to leave in a gale, she should stay.
Now she wants to come back, she should have gone to a different port.

I'm too green to know half of what you wiser men and women sailors know, so maybe you are all perfectly right, but it just seems more like Monday morning quarterbacking rather than discussing ideas.

I am completely enchanted by the entire voyage, and having her every move second guessed is taking the wonder out of the whole thing.  I don't think anyone here means to belittle Heather or boast about how great of a sailor they are. I haven't met anyone here like that. But I do see opinions being pushed when advice wasn't asked for. I can understand how a sailor who has tens of thousand of miles under his belt may resent receiving unsolicited advice pointing out his perceived mistakes. Again, not me -  I soak up your advice like a sponge!  ;D

I have no idea how far out she is, if someone knows please tell us. Maybe she's only 20 miles out so coming back is a great idea! 

Lostlake—

Could you point out the post where people said she should have an autopilot???

Most people were asking about autopilots and whether she had one... and Gene came back and said some very strange stuff about autopilots and sheets... and how they didn't work under sail.

Can you point out the post where someone stated she should have stayed with the old batteries?

Some people asked about what batteries she had, and were curious as to how large her house bank was.  She only had a house bank of 150 amp-hours... which is a pretty small house bank to run lights, VHF, CARD and nav instruments, the latter of which are going to be run 24x7. 

Leaving in a gale, when going on a multi-year journey is pretty stupid IMHO. 

It means you're going to damage and abuse your boat and equipment very early on when it isn't necessary to do so.  As it was, she decided to leave after the worst of the storm had passed. 

The question of what port she chose to return to is a valid question.

Steinhatchee is an upwind beat into seas and wind that puts a lot of abuse on the boat,  Another port may have allowed her to keep making some progress towards her destination, rather than backtracking completely, and put less wear and tear on the boat.

Also, this is a discussion forum... I didn't see anyone attacking Gene or Heather.  I did see some people asking questions about gear choices, and Gene seems to have chosen to take them as attacks against him and his daughter. That was his choice, and it was his choice to leave the forum.   By the way, that seems to be a pattern of Gene's... from the other sailing fora I've seen him on.

Quote from: Lost Lake on January 06, 2008, 09:24:01 PM

I can understand how a sailor who has tens of thousand of miles under his belt may resent receiving unsolicited advice pointing out his perceived mistakes.

Heather does not have tens of thousands of miles under HER keel, at least not in command of a boat and solo sailing.  She's been sailing about a year (and still taking lessons as late as 2 December 2007), and there is NOTHING on her web site to indicate she has done anything of any distance by herself.

That her father has some experience and helped her outfit the boat is one thing, but he's not the one with the tiller in his hand THIS time; nor is he the one out there making decisions when he's averaged maybe 2 hours of GOOD sleep per day (if she's lucky) for weeks at a time if the weather's rough or crossing a major shipping area.  You know, like the Gulf of Mexico.   ;)

Perhaps what you are seeing here (and on other forums, this trip has made the web circuit like few others) is a measure of CONCERN rather than Monday morning quarterbacking.

I think it is safe to say that most of us here respect her right to follow her path, no matter her experience level.  I think this board more than most is less of the "you better do it my way" ilk.  That said, I think you will notice a LOT of the discussion on here was of the sort I'd call comparing notes.  "Here's how I do it" with the recognition that there is no Right Way (tm).

Gene has accused a lot of very experienced sailors of being wannabees and nay-sayers, just because their experience did not gybe with his or they CHOOSE to do things differently.  Dave on Auspicious summarized this extremely well with his comment regarding each of us having different priorities in the way we solve the various rigging, outfitting and provisioning problems on our very different boats.

Lake, you are of course free to view this board as you like; but, if you give the SailFar group a fair look, I think you will find no other kinder, more open set of sailors with the 'small boat, long distances' philosophy anywhere on the 'Net.  That's my opinion, at least.

Fair Winds, my friend, and have some grog.

Well said Capn Smollett.  Have a grog on me. :)

Quote from: Captain Smollett on January 06, 2008, 10:28:37 PM


Heather does not have tens of thousands of miles under HER keel, at least not in command of a boat and solo sailing.  She's been sailing about a year (and still taking lessons as late as 2 December 2007), and there is NOTHING on her web site to indicate she has done anything of any distance by herself.

I meant Gene of course, Heather has not been here as far as I know

Quote from: Captain Smollett on January 06, 2008, 10:28:37 PM

That her father has some experience and helped her outfit the boat is one thing, but he's not the one with the tiller in his hand THIS time; nor is he the one out there making decisions when he's averaged maybe 2 hours of GOOD sleep per day (if she's lucky) for weeks at a time if the weather's rough or crossing a major shipping area.  You know, like the Gulf of Mexico.   ;)

Perhaps what you are seeing here (and on other forums, this trip has made the web circuit like few others) is a measure of CONCERN rather than Monday morning quarterbacking.

Concern is a good word, I guess maybe I was reading some comments with a skewed view. I stand corrected.

Quote from: Captain Smollett on January 06, 2008, 10:28:37 PM

I think it is safe to say that most of us here respect her right to follow her path, no matter her experience level.  I think this board more than most is less of the "you better do it my way" ilk.  That said, I think you will notice a LOT of the discussion on here was of the sort I'd call comparing notes.  "Here's how I do it" with the recognition that there is no Right Way (tm).

Wise words once again Captain Smollett. Grog to you for taking the time to open my eyes.

I have to say that she has courage to leave when she did, however if she had waited she may have not gotton a better weather window until spring.   This is a common course in Fl and there is a lot of experience that she could have drawn from to get data.

I am waiting to here her side of the story before I make any decisions.

I'd like to point out that we don't know what Heather may have tried to do at sea, all we know is what Gene passed along to me in his e-mail. We don't know how much time Heather spend with her head in the engine space. We don't know the actual arrangement of the latch on the hatch that managed to catch and made a batch of trouble (sorry - I couldn't help myself after the first rhyme).

I'd darn sure rather be out there with her than sitting here.

I corresponded privately with Gene before he showed up here regarding a technical issue he was working to resolve, and I got the distinct feeling that he wanted to talk about what he was doing but wasn't really interested in others' input...  his choice obviously, and I decided not to try and help anymore.  It seems he wasn't really interested in discussion here either.

I think one of the real values of a board like this lies in the discussion that takes place, the shared learning and problem solving.  Yes, some of us disagree with a number of things Heather & Gene have done and are doing, but I wouldn't expect them to change just because any of us disagrees.  However, I do feel that healthy and respectfully critical discussion helps all of us in our own personal decision-making regarding our own boats and voyages. 

Veteran or newbie, anyone who has an honest question or doubt should feel free to pose the question to the group for discussion.  It's not being a Monday morning quarterback, it's trying to learn from the collective wealth of knowledge and experience here to make better decisions when you're own bacon is on the line.

Personally, I have serious concerns about someone with so little experience undertaking a voyage like this, especially someone who has had so much of the preparation done for her by someone else.  I wish Heather the best, but there's alot about the whole situation that gives me an uneasy feeling.

Quote from: Bill NH on January 07, 2008, 11:35:04 AM

Veteran or newbie, anyone who has an honest question or doubt should feel free to pose the question to the group for discussion.  It's not being a Monday morning quarterback, it's trying to learn from the collective wealth of knowledge and experience here to make better decisions when you're own bacon is on the line.

Precisely.  I've learned from discussions here, and I started sailing in 1957. If someone tells you they know it all, run. Sailing, and cruising as an adjunct, has far too much scope for any one person to know it all in a lifetime. But we can take things from other's knowledge and apply them to our own situations- and that's the real beauty of boards like this- puts you in touch with MANY like minded folks, so you can share experiences and knowledge, hopefully avoiding some "oopsies" in the process.

Quote from: CharlieJ on January 07, 2008, 11:44:24 AMPrecisely.  I've learned from discussions here, and I started sailing in 1957. If someone tells you they know it all, run.

Agree. Heck, I'm just starting to get a real grip on what I *don't* know. <grin>

In some ways, she was kind of under great pressure to leave on a timely fashion, because her website and the publicity she and her father have sought out for her trip, have made it much more critical to leave somewhere near her publicized departure date. Given her relative novice sailing skills and experience, the pressure created by her website and the publicity may not have been the best thing for Heather.

I can understand why Gene doesn't participate in on-line discussion forums.  He's not looking for a reasonable discourse on sailing, he just wants validation for his particular thoughts and ways of doing things.  He took every comment, regardless of what the comment said or the spirit in which it was made, as an attack upon himself or his daughter.  It is a very strange attitude to take, especially if you've basically announced to the world what you're doing, the way he and Heather have.

I'm not as concerned about Heather, even given her relative lack of experience, since the boat is a well-found, proven design. If Tania Aebi, at the age of 18, could circumnavigate, I don't see much of a problem with Heather doing so.  In some ways, Heather may be at an advantage over Tania, given her greater life experience and maturity. 

Sailing, like most other worth while avocations, is a life-long learning process.  If you aren't learning something new every day about sailing, then you're probably doing something wrong.

Quote from: Lynx on January 07, 2008, 07:31:01 AM
I have to say that she has courage to leave when she did, however if she had waited she may have not gotton a better weather window until spring.   This is a common course in Fl and there is a lot of experience that she could have drawn from to get data.

I am waiting to here her side of the story before I make any decisions.

Quote from: Bill NH on January 07, 2008, 11:35:04 AM<snip> I got the distinct feeling that he wanted to talk about what he was doing but wasn't really interested in others' input... <snip>  It seems he wasn't really interested in discussion here either.

Well, Bill, I think that is a nice and accurate summation. After the fact, I've been sent links by several folks to other forums where the pattern of Genes membership was much the same as what we saw here. Me, I prefer to do things a different way, but... To each his own. :)

While not contributing much to the forum in general, the publicity value and advice they received has been quite beneficial for them at very little cost, so I am sure that Gene has to have been quite happy overall with the results of his brief stay here, and that he can't have much real objection to our little corner of the 'net. Congratulations for that, and... that's what we are here for, right? :) So we did a good job. :) I honestly and sincerely wish Heather the best on her trip, and hope that she benefits greatly from the advice that was garnered here, things like the zip ties, battery situation, Panama Canal advice, etc... :)

Of course, not knowing different beforehand, I was hoping that Gene might find this place to be much like I have - fun, friendly, not too "in your face", and with a wide range of both experience and knowledge that can be drawn from. That he didn't does not, I really don't believe, reflect on us in a bad light at all.

We do have an arena here that was designed quite intentionally to foster discussion of our own particular passion, and whether or not someone finds that to their taste is an individual decision.

I for one have an enormous appreciation and respect for all of y'all who partake in our own kind of give-and-take. :) Thanks, sailFarers!

And a reminder: not everything you read on the internet is true, or even necessarily a complete representation of the facts.

Just because someone says they have thousands of sea miles under their keel doesn't mean that it is so, or that the claimed miles impart any kind of special weight to the things they post. For instance, when discussing storm tactics, I'd much more value the experience of a sailor who'd sailed down and round the Horn once, than someone who'd completed a few tradewind passages. Quality, not quantity, and it's my considered opinion that a good deal of that can be revealed in how someone comports themselves in forums like this one. I've never met a true long-distance sailor who was a real butthead, but I know several weekend warriors who know everything. Or so they think.  ;)

I bring this up because I think it is important that it be noted, especially by new sailors who are seeking to broaden their knowledge base.

Contrary to Gene's insults and implication there at the end of his stay here, I personally *know* that several of our contributors in this thread have the experience they claim, have logged plenty of bluewater miles, and feel that their experience is not the kind to have been to be trivialized in a fit of pique. I did find it dismaying when Gene resorted to that, and I apologize for his sake to those of you whose experience he obviously had no idea of, and who might have been offended by his crass personal attack. That kind of thing is *not* a part of what sailFar is intended to be. :)

I need to talk less and listen more......  :-X

Perhaps a late resolution....

CapnK-

Unfortunately, I don't think Gene was interested in hearing anything but total agreement with himself...

Quote from: Lost Lake on January 07, 2008, 08:43:00 PM
I need to talk less and listen more......  :-X

Perhaps a late resolution....

Lost Lake, you just thought you were standing up for somebody who wasn't here to do it for herself, nothing wrong with that.

And you proved you could listen by taking what was then said.

Nothing wrong with expressing your views :) That is what it is all about.

Quote from: Tim on January 07, 2008, 09:04:50 PM

Nothing wrong with expressing your views :) That is what it is all about.

Agreed.

Lake, and Tim, a glass with you kind sirs. 

from Flicka20 site................. 



Flicka Home Page


It's dead calm out in the Gulf just now, and Heather is being towed back into Steinhatchee, with no engine. The problem could be a minor linkage problem, which I could fix if I were aboard. It gets fuel in reverse, but not in forward.


Gene Neill


01/07/2007 18:16: Back in Steinhatchee, FL

I am glad that she made it back safe. We have another front comming and I would not want to be 300 miles out in the gulf stream with a broken boat. Good choice on Heather and Gene's part

Heather is safely back in port and has updated the log page of her web site ( http://www dot solo-sailor dot com/ShipLog dot htm ). She writes well. As many of us speculated there is more to the story than we knew, and I'm sure there are yet more details that it would be interesting to have.

All in all, and in my own opinion only, I think she did rather well particularly in light of her experience level.

I wasn't aware of her seasickness. I haven't been seasick (yet) so I can't imagine how debilitated she must have been. I have seen the effects on others though. No wonder she chose to heave to so she could - ah - heave.

The engine issue sounds somewhat more complicated than I thought, but I still suspect a linkage, just between the single-lever control and the engine throttle as opposed to a linkage with the transmission shift.

I still haven't installed a lock on the inside of my companionway slide, and I'm staring at the thing considering the emotional impact of being locked out. Whatever I decide to do (probably still a barrel bolt) standard procedure on Auspicious is now to unlock all the deck hatches (Lewmar Ocean hatches can be opened from the outside as well as the inside as long as the little lock tabs are flipped to open) before going sailing.

Quote from: Auspicious on January 09, 2008, 08:42:53 AM

I still haven't installed a lock on the inside of my companionway slide, and I'm staring at the thing considering the emotional impact of being locked out. Whatever I decide to do (probably still a barrel bolt) standard procedure on Auspicious is now to unlock all the deck hatches (Lewmar Ocean hatches can be opened from the outside as well as the inside as long as the little lock tabs are flipped to open) before going sailing.

Perhaps a wire tie or rubber band on the barrel bolt to hold it in the "open" position would be cheap insurance as well?

Simple, old tech would do the trick.

Mount a small cleat (horn or jam) where the barrel bolt body was. Attach a piece of small but strong line to the other part that you want to have locked to it.

Then use the cleat the 'lock' the hatch 'shut' when you want.

There's no way I can think of that wave action would cause *that* to fasten itself... :)

Quote from: Auspicious on January 09, 2008, 08:42:53 AM

Heather is safely back in port and has updated the log page of her web site ( http://www.solo-sailor.com/ShipLog.htm ). She writes well. As many of us speculated there is more to the story than we knew, and I'm sure there are yet more details that it would be interesting to have.

All in all, and in my own opinion only, I think she did rather well particularly in light of her experience level.

I believe she will be far better prepared, mentally, spiritually and physically, the next time out.  I also like, as we discussed recently in another thread, that she is NOT afraid to continue learning.  On the one hand, I am sorry she had a rough experience so soon into her voyage (or at all), but on the other, it is nice to see she has turned this into a positive.

She does write well, and I believe that this was probably a good thing in the long run of her circumnavigation.  IMHO, it was better to get locked out here, and come back to deal with it than it would have been to be locked out in the middle of her Pacific crossing, and have to make a passage of several thousand miles with a damaged dropboard and hatch. 

She does need to change/modify the locking mechanism to the sliding hatch.  Having it lock unintentionally is a huge hazard to her. 

I hope that the delays of repairing her boat don't have adverse consequences on the rest of her voyage.  She should probably wait until she can get another satellite phone card, since she's back home at the moment.  Not having the ability to use the phone to get weather reports is unwise.

Wow, why do people think they have to jump out into open waters and do big crossings right away?  Is this some kind of macho thing?

It takes a long time to work out the bugs of any sailboat.  For that matter each season the boat goes back into the water, everything goes through tests and checklists before we even get out of sight of the harbor.  And usually there are at least a few daysails near harbor before even thinking about sailing to the next harbor.  Maybe I'm just a chicken.

I'm all for starting an epic voyaging adventure by hopping from harbor to harbor on nice days, or even just daysailing for a week or two to make sure everything is working.  You have to get used to the boat, make minor improvements, catch problems, get used to living on board, etc.

Quote from: Captain Smollett on January 09, 2008, 08:59:56 AM

Quote from: Auspicious on January 09, 2008, 08:42:53 AM

I still haven't installed a lock on the inside of my companionway slide, and I'm staring at the thing considering the emotional impact of being locked out. Whatever I decide to do (probably still a barrel bolt) standard procedure on Auspicious is now to unlock all the deck hatches (Lewmar Ocean hatches can be opened from the outside as well as the inside as long as the little lock tabs are flipped to open) before going sailing.

Perhaps a wire tie or rubber band on the barrel bolt to hold it in the "open" position would be cheap insurance as well?

!!! I had an epiphany -- right here, reading Captain Smollett's words!

On my boat, there isn't a good way to mount a barrel bolt including the receiver hood (what ever you call the "target" part of the barrel bolt). The easy answer is to just drill a hole, as has been done over and over. When drilling the hole with a standard twist drill, the bottom of the hole will be v-shaped. I can run a stainless steel wood screw into the hole and bottom it out (okay, I'm anal - I'll predrill). Unless I need to lock myself in, I'll keep the screws backed out so that the face of the screw is flush with the face of the wood and the bolt can't *possibly* slide into the hole unless I run the screw back in to the bottom of the hole!

I'm psyched. This seems to be the answer for me.

Grog to Captain Smollett.

Quote from: skylark on January 09, 2008, 11:39:41 AM
It takes a long time to work out the bugs of any sailboat.

Heather took a number of daysails and a couple of short hops. Sooner or later you have to go. Then you learn a LOT. I did.

Sumio took over Sam L Morris years ago building the Bristol Channel Cutter.( sadly stopped in 07) Before taking over, he had spent several years and MANY sea miles sailing his own.One of the 1st things he changed once involved in production was the latch on the aft cockpit locker.It swung downward  to axcept a pad lock.After being trapped inside that locker for many hours while doing a repair and the hatch accidentaly closing...he made all new latchs swing upward so they would fall open with ease if not locked. This is a very simple item...but you need to have a minor misshap to think of it. After reading Heathers very well written report, I must say I respect her honesty and candor in sharing her experience.Anyone whom has ever been alone and ill offshore knows how totally 'draining' it is....as well as feeling extremely vulnerable.Even simple/minor tasks seem too much at times.I'm happy she is re-grouping and finishing off her 'to-do list'. Wish her well.

So has anyone heard when Heather will depart again, this is so exciting for my 11 yr old daughter and I.  We even have a world map on the wall in her room to plot her course.

Quote from: Marc on January 09, 2008, 08:22:10 PM
So has anyone heard when Heather will depart again, this is so exciting for my 11 yr old daughter and I.  We even have a world map on the wall in her room to plot her course.

Not to steal from Heather's thunder at all, but you and your daughter might like to check out Donna Lange's Circumnavigation (http://www.donnalange.com/) completed last year.  Her trip was in some ways polar opposite - much less fanfare.  Her site has log entries (under Log Archives) of the entire journey.

Quote from: Marc on January 09, 2008, 08:22:10 PM
So has anyone heard when Heather will depart again, this is so exciting for my 11 yr old daughter and I.  We even have a world map on the wall in her room to plot her course.

"When she is ready." <grin> I think 'soon' is a good answer. She just wants to fix all the broken bits. Watch her web site for updates. I'll pass along what I hear from Heather and her Dad.

sail fast, dave

Quote from: Frank on January 09, 2008, 12:02:20 PM
Sumio took over Sam L Morris years ago building the Bristol Channel Cutter. One of the 1st things he changed once involved in production was the latch on the aft cockpit locker.It swung downward  to axcept a pad lock.After being trapped inside that locker for many hours while doing a repair and the hatch accidentaly closing...he made all new latchs swing upward so they would fall open with ease if not locked.

HEY!! I never knew why in the world the hasps on my CP19 swung upward, but that makes sense now!

And I don't think I even have a lock on the companionway hatch. Well, from the inside I mean. I should put one on there if I'm planning to sleep on her on Lake Superior....

When she and Flight is ready is a good answer... I don't that she should rush back out, even though I think the publicity of her venture does create some pressure for her to do so.

I'd second Donna Lange's website.  Her story is an inspiring one, and the boat she did it in isn't much bigger than that some here on Sailfar.net have.  She was in a Southern Cross 28. 

As for locks... I would always recommend that they be installed so that they can't be accidentally locked if at all possible.  Out at sea, there are no locksmiths, and if you have to damage a locker lid or hatch, you may not have the materials to repair it immediately available.  That's one reason I chose to put a deadbolt on a drop board for my sliding hatch.

Anyone heard anything? There are no recent updates on her ships log as of last night, which is what- 10 days or so since her return? Hope she hasn't run into some type of very big, long-term/expensive problem...

Her site did say she something to the effect of she was going to 'back off' a little bit, by which I mean she was going to slow down.  She's realized the folly of sailing to a landbased schedule and also that she has a lot to learn.  So, an extended silence while she makes repairs and regroups her mind does not seem too terribly out of the way.

I think I posted this either here or on another forum, but I was gladdened to see that she has turned what some might label a 'negative' into a positive.  I don't think she will give up her 'dream' but will learn from the experience and forge on a better sailor and stronger person.  My hat is off to her for that.

I emailed her about a typo on her last update (wherein she stated Force 7 winds were 60 kts, when she meant 60 km/hr) and she very promptly replied and fixed the typo.  I was amazed she responded as quickly as she did, and again, struck me as having a very positive attitude.  That was the day of or day after the last update, however, so no new news since.

Heather has decided not to go, and to sell Flight of Years. See her log (page down to the bottom): http://www dot solo-sailor dot com/ShipLog dot htm .

Well, now, that IS sad news - in a way.  From reading her words, I think it fair to repeat that again she is turning what will seem to many like a negative to a positive.

Ouch... I do hope that at some point in the future Heather doesn't look back on this time in her life and regret not going though. 

That is sad. I  did not see the part about selling her boat...if she does somebody will have a sweet float. Wish it was me!

I don't see that it does say that she's selling the boat... but raiding the sailing kitty to go traveling strikes me as a bit off, unless she's willing to refund her sponsors what they've invested in her and Flight of Years. 

If I were a sponsor, and helping fund someone's circumnavigation attempt... and they decided to bail on the attempt, I'd likely want my funding back...

At the bottom she asks for addresses so she can return money.

Quote from: AdriftAtSea on January 20, 2008, 11:45:23 PM
I don't see that it does say that she's selling the boat... but raiding the sailing kitty to go traveling strikes me as a bit off, unless she's willing to refund her sponsors what they've invested in her and Flight of Years. 

If I were a sponsor, and helping fund someone's circumnavigation attempt... and they decided to bail on the attempt, I'd likely want my funding back...

According to her web page, she IS refunding ALL donations.

In reference to selling the boat, she made the comment "unload the boat."

Oh, I saw that. I thought it meant take all the provisions off

Moral of the story, don't leave in Bad weather.

The crossing from Fl to Mexico is a yearly trip done in the spring with many boats and familes. If she would have waited or just played on FL west coast until spring and left then she might have made it.

Quote from: Lynx on January 21, 2008, 01:47:30 AM
Moral of the story, don't leave in Bad weather.

The crossing from Fl to Mexico is a yearly trip done in the spring with many boats and familes. If she would have waited or just played on FL west coast until spring and left then she might have made it.

That's a fair point.  I also considered it perhaps better that she met her challenge so soon.  Otherwise, she might have been lulled into false security and hit the rough stuff 1000 miles from anything.

Pat Henry, of roughly similar age when she embarked from Mexico to sail her SC31 around the world solo, had a measurably larger degree of blue water sailing experience than Heather, but not much solo.  That 3000 nm stretch to the Marquesas (also Heather's Pacific destination) proved to have quite a learning curve for her.  Of course she made it, but it was not without pitfalls, and the trip took just over one month.

That's a long haul to sail by oneself, expecially if you are not used or prepared to sail solo.  And there is NOTHING out there - no one to help, no port to run into, etc.

It was not an overnight crossing Heather was planning.  It was real long distance stuff. 

Sad news. With all respect, I can't help thinking it could have been sooo different...

-if not telling all the world about the circumnavigation plans. (What's wrong with a trip of a few     months to the islands and then just maybe... take it from there.

-if not having set a fixed departure date.

Added lots of  pressure on her that shouldn't be necessary in my humble opinion...

Never the less I wish Heather all the best whatever she will do from now on...  :)  Life is larger than sailing, after all. (even though I for one am having some trouble to comprehend that right now 8))

I expect the January departure date had a lot to do with missing the Pacific hurricane season later on. There IS a timetable you must meet to sail the Pacific, just like the Carribbean, other wise you can get in BIG trouble.

You can't just leave when you want to, and sail on, but leaving directly into bad weather is NOT seamanly.

Quote from: CharlieJ on January 21, 2008, 10:04:31 AM
I expect the January departure date had a lot to do with missing the Pacific hurricane season later on. There IS a timetable you must meet to sail the Pacific, just like the Carribbean, other wise you can get in BIG trouble.

You can't just leave when you want to, and sail on, but leaving directly into bad weather is NOT seamanly.

Excellent point.

That's one of the key reasons why in my 'dream planning,' I am looking to take the Pardey's "slow down" approach.  I am not planning a circumnavigation.  I'm planning a series of places I'd like to visit that over time MIGHT end up being ATW.  In this planning, staying in one spot months or a year is definitely on the table.

This is why I think there is merit in not trying to plan TOO MUCH of a trip in one shot.  If the Pacific window is closed when the GOM window is open, well, is there somewhere intermediate where one can wait out a few months?  Even Pat Henry, who took 7 years to circumnavigate, did it this way, "short hopping" let's say (with 'short' being a relative term).

As far as I can tell, the trickiest place to plan around is the southern Indian Ocean (which Heather was not going to anyway, she was going via Suez).  The cyclone season in the western Indian seems to be more chaotic and less predictable than the others (in terms of year-to-year variability), and it's a LOOOOOONG stretch from Africa to Australia, even with stops along the islands.

Speaking of the Indian Ocean, and a bit off topic, I once saw a Nova or NG show about some guys that were doing a historical reenactment voyage on an open vessel.  I remember clearly one quote by they guy I THINK was the Captain - "This is one nasty piece of ocean."  That and the visual image when he said it has stuck with me since I saw it.

From Heather's website, I only found this regarding "unloading" the boat:

QuoteBut, as Dad would say, "Happiness is a choice."  And I have picked myself up now, and gotten my head back together and my attitude straight (which took some doing).  Though I haven't been able to bring myself to do it yet, I have finally admitted to myself that I need to unpack the boat.

As for sailing to a set schedule... that's generally a really bad idea.  IIRC, Pat Henry also did all of her own preparation.  Given Heather's father's intimate involvement in the journey preparation, I'd hesitate to say the same for Heather. 

Quote from: AdriftAtSea on January 21, 2008, 11:04:03 AM
From Heather's website, I only found this regarding "unloading" the boat:

QuoteBut, as Dad would say, "Happiness is a choice."  And I have picked myself up now, and gotten my head back together and my attitude straight (which took some doing).  Though I haven't been able to bring myself to do it yet, I have finally admitted to myself that I need to unpack the boat.

That's been changed, then.  That's not what it originally said, right after Dave posted his comment on 20 Jan (yesterday).  Quite a few people on various forums have commented about whether "unload" refered to selling or unpacking, and it still said "unload" the last time I checked.  Apparently, she realized the ambiguity and clarified it.

I noticed that change in wording also. My gut feeling though is that the boat will get sold.

It said "unload" when I read it also. And I feel the same way Tim does. Too bad, since IF she has "wanted to sail" for "some 40 years" you'd think sailing around Florida and the Caribbean would be a great way to salve a bit of the wounds from the setback.

Again, as I said earlier- this is all conjecture, since none of us really knows what's in her mind. I'm basing my feelings on what MY wife would be like in a similar situation- but then she doesn't even know how to spell "quit"

Some good thoughts, here.

Setting such a firm schedule and publicizing heavily (sponsors, websites, whatever) sets real firm expectations which likely tend to eclipse the simple desire to go sailing and see the world.  The early scheduling problems I'm sure where stressful as Heather fails to meet the obligations she has set for herself.  The bad weather, stuck hatch, broken motor, and seasickness was probably more than enough to crash morale into the toilet.  The trip then becomes a job.  A really low paying, lonely, uncomfortable job.  Where is the joy in that?  Throw in a father she's close to with failing health who I guess has lost some of the enthusiasm for the trip and finding a reason to go would likely become difficult.

Lessons I take from it: Do the trip for yourself.  Forget expectations of family and friends (and even boating forums).  Don't let it become a job.  The trip likely won't be easy or comfortable, so there needs to be a clear benefit to doing the trip.  Self satisfaction?  Spiritual fulfillment?  Wanderlust?  The call of the sea?  All good.  Meeting expectations (set by yourself or others)?  Bad.

I seem to remember reading about the Dove circumnavigation (the name of the young skipper slips my mind at the moment).  As I recall, National Geographic helped bankroll the trip and Robin (I think that may be his name) felt lots of pressure to press on and continue the trip long after he had his fill to meet the NG obligations.  I also remember reading that Tania Aebi was constantly struggling with guilt over not meeting the expectations of her father, and the pressure of a world record, for her trip.  I find that somewhat sad (even though I'm still envious of the trips).

Heather will likely be fine.  Maybe she'll do the trip a year or two down the road.  Maybe she won't.  I wish her happiness in whatever choice she makes.

Before she could 'unload' the boat, she'd have to 'unpack' it. They are not mutually exclusive terms nor ideas. :)

I saw it on her site when it said 'unload', and took the meaning to be "sell". Why keep the boat, with all those improvements and it's current great Bristol appearance, only to have it depreciating daily and getting abused by sun~wind~rain, while you are off traveling the world by aeroplane?

The smart thing to do would be to sell it hasta pronto, if one were worried about recouping losses. It will only be harder to sell, and at a ever-lowering price, if it isn't getting used.

I hope that the folks who sold her the boat understand, and are not acrimonious. That boat was their baby, from all accounts. :)

Any one in the market for a Flicka, fairly well-equipped, only slightly used? ;)

The wording in Heather's log has definitely changed. Until I hear differently from her, I choose to read her words as saying that she is taking some time to think about her future but isn't burning any bridges.

The fact that I myself might choose to do my thinking somewhere other than Thailand does not mean it isn't a great place for her, getting away from all other influences and have some concentrated time to focus.

I'm going to be doing some thinking of my own very soon, and although Harness Creek or the Wye River may be closer, Thailand is definitely warmer. I went sailing this morning (check-sail for a new 135 genoa) in 19F weather, 12 kts WNW, 1045 mb. A good friend is someone who will sail with you in weather that cold; a great sailmaker shows up for a check-sail in those conditions.

That was the take on her plans I got from her last post as well.  Hopefully, she'll at least go coastal cruising in s/v Flight of years. 

Agreed - once you have the boat all sorted out why not just go spend the rest of the winter in the Bahamas relaxing, recuperating and working on the sailing skills? 

If it was me, I'd head down to the Bahama's and hang out some with Connie and just do some island hopping working on the sailing skills.  8)

Cheaper than flying half way around the world. However Great food to be had in Thailand, lots to see. Whatever... She did give it a shot, maybe she'll get pumped later after looking at it from a different view. Sometime you need to step back to go forward. In Tai Chi, we go a little down to go up, a little left to go right...

Quote from: Zen on January 21, 2008, 10:46:47 PM

In Tai Chi, we go a little down to go up, a little left to go right...

;D

That's one of the neat things about living on a sphere.  You CAN go left to go right...if you go far enough.   ;)

It occurs to me that going to Thailand may contribute to some sailing goal-setting. "Hmm - I'd like to come back here, in my boat!" <grin>

Update on Heather's website, to which I have only one reaction:

"You go girl."

Quote from: Auspicious on January 24, 2008, 01:50:24 PM
Update on Heather's website, to which I have only one reaction:

"You go girl."

;D ;D

I think it is fair to say the lady is no quitter.  To my mind, there is absolutely no shame in taking a step back and re-grouping.

Who among has not done that at least once in their life?

She's learned an awful lot in the past few weeks, about herself and the 'big bad world.'  That's what it is all about, right?  Whether you are doing that on a sailboat or via any other mechanism is, as they say, just geography.

Sounds like a good plan... sailing around the Caribbean will probably give her the familiarity with the boat that she should have had prior to setting out.. and de-bug all the systems on it.

The west coast of Fl will do that as well.

It has to be tough for Heather.  She has put herself out there in more ways than one.  Both the sea and the internet can be cruel.  I hope she spends this time mending her hand so she can sail another day in good health and not defending herself on other sites.  If she decides to go to Thailand, I have some wonderful contacts and places in mind.  It is a great place to heal both body and mind.

I have read many of the posts on this site regarding Heather and am happy to be in such kind company.

I think she has true grit and her sailing days have just begun.

One of my best days of sailing has been the day after a really bad one.

Quote from: Lynx on January 26, 2008, 04:40:52 PM
One of my best days of sailing has been the day after a really bad one.

Wow.  Grog for that one.  Very well said.   :)

I've also found that the days I learn the most about sailing are often the worst ones in terms of weather, boat handling, etc...  It is hard to really learn about sailing when it is sunny, 15 knots of wind and everything is going perfectly. :)

Quote from: gltea on January 26, 2008, 10:10:15 AM
It has to be tough for Heather.  She has put herself out there in more ways than one.  Both the sea and the internet can be cruel. 

I think she has true grit and her sailing days have just begun.

Yes the sea and the internet can be cruel. Excellent point. Grog to you!

Grog, James - that's quotable. :)

Heather is taking some time to asses her future and heal. She will be in the soft cast for another month and in therapy for 2 months after that.  She will completely miss the weather window for departure. God knows she has seen enough weather for a while. Those of us who know her are more than confident that she will successfully accomplish whatever course she take in the future. And those who have seen the Flica are in love with it. If she were mine I would have to name her, Sole Mate. :)

First.  BZ to Heather.

  It takes a lot more moxy to undertake something then to sit at a computer and criticize someone who does.

  I took a look at her log and found the following;

QuoteJanuary 23, 2008 - Since my last post I have received a truckload of emails, most of them kind and understanding and supportive (thank you, I needed that!)...and some reaming me pretty fiercely. I've been criticized for everything under the shining sun -- from saying I might take some time off for a vacation, to worrying about the weather window to get to the Marquesas, to being scared because I was locked in the cockpit in the storm, to using my injured hand as an "excuse," to, well, you get the picture. (It sure is easy to tell a complete stranger what to do from the comfort and anonymity of your Barcalounger, isn't it?). One sensitive fellow emailed (and I quote in full), "too bad it didn't work out for you. How much for the boat?" Buddy, your wife really got a prize when she got you. Darn, the good ones are always taken!

I'm typing pretty much with one hand and having trouble keeping up with all the emails, so I'd like to clarify a few things here.

Firstly, the boat isn't for sale. And when and if it ever is for sale, Sir Galahad of the Email doesn't have enough money to buy it.

Secondly, I'm pretty sure my thumb would be an asset if I were hitch-hiking, but I am unable to use it for anything as simple as holding a fork, brushing my teeth, operating a can opener, or zipping my pants. Hoisting the mainsail, working on the engine, hefting anchor chain, or, say, maybe hanging on to a lifeline in rough seas, pumping out the bilge, or maybe setting a storm para-anchor, are all out of the question. (I know, I know, I'm such a sissy!)

Third, I'm not scared and I haven't quit. But I am being honest and realistic with myself and you in admitting I know there's probably no intelligent way I can go this year. I'm also realizing that I could use a little more sailing time and familiarity with handling the boat in rough weather. And, despite even some family urging to sell the boat, I have no plans of that at this time. My vague, subject-to-change-because-I'm-a-woman-and-reserve-that-right plan is to take some time off, take a vacation, do some closer-to-home sailing (Bahamas are likely), and begin again. Believe it or not, this change in plans has been an awfully big pill to swallow and, by golly, I'm entitled and unapologetic!

To the folks who have offered encouragement and well-meaning advice, thank you, thank you, thank you - I needed it!

To you yahoos in your Barcaloungers: I talked to your momma. She said to tell you, "Shame on you! If you can't say something nice, hush!"

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go do my thumb exercises.

;)

You gotta love her spirit ;)!!! Many other people would have been scared spitless and quit. We'll see her later when her hand is healed and the sailing window is open. We'll see her do it, we just have to have patience and give her words of encouragement ;D ;D ;D

Fair winds Heather,

Pappy Jack

Ok, I just wasted a good hour reading through this entire thread. I could say a lot of things, but I don't see the point.

Tell me, what the heck happened to 'Captain Heather' ??

She has very little, if any time to start her Pacific run now if she hasn't left yet. What's the go?

n

Last I heard she was laying off a while to allow her badly damaged thumb to heal, then planned to regroup and begin again.

Otherwise, I've seen nothing new. Check her website for her last postings. Here's a link to her ships log age. Last post was Jan 28th.

ht+p://www.solo-sailor.com/ShipLog.htm

I see... Interesting.

She seems convinced that every day out is going to be in storms, deploying her para-anchor, as if her life were hanging by a thread. Someone has scared the heebie jeebies out of her. I guess you're ready when you're ready - Too bad her stupid dad has been going about the place talking the whole thing up like mad. I'd be furious if that's what my dad were doing.

Her father didn't help any IMHO, since the pressure she must have been under only ramped up under the publicity of it all.

Yes, but the publcity of it all was as a result of her dad running around every sailing forum on the internet, telling the boards he is a master mariner and his amazing incredible wonderful fantastic daughter is going to start her sailing any day now...

I'm looking forward to the day when she feels comfortable enough to undertake the voyage. I enjoy these stories and like to cheer on those brave souls that venture out.

Reminds me of another story that can across this site. "Harley" (not Davidson) was planning a non stop cirumnavigation in an 8 ft boat. One of the most ill concieved plans on the most un seaworthy crafts ever attempted. The boat was so flimsy and poorly designed he could not leave the dock!

Oded

One other circumnavigation attempt that has gotten a lot of attention recently is David Vann's attempt in a 50' LOA x 30' Beam home built  trimaran. Esquire magazine is publishing a blog for him and he's gotten a lot of press.  However, his attempt isn't going too well, since the boat left SFO a few days ago and had to put into Santa Cruz due to the aka attachment points on the main hull failing.  The problem is that David Vann doesn't have an ounce of common sense and made some very poor design choices in building his boat... one of his heroes is Ken Barnes, who had to be rescued off the Chilean coast a couple of years ago, and between the two of them, they've sank three boats out from under themselves.

Since Vann couldn't get a welder running at the fuel dock, thank god for small mercies... he's headed back to SFO to see if he can repair his boat.

My heroes are the ones that made it.  They are worth my time. Those who do not have some problem that was not resolved. The FAILURES are not worth my time.

Trust me, Ken Barnes and his protege David Vann aren't on my heroes list... far from it.  They're on my list of people not to be like.

Quote from: Lynx on February 18, 2008, 09:19:28 AM
My heroes are the ones that made it.  They are worth my time. Those who do not have some problem that was not resolved. The FAILURES are not worth my time.

I guess He is going to shelve it and take the boat back to Napa until next year.
Here's a link to Latitude 38's story;

http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2008-02-18&dayid=74#Story2

The latest from Heather...  as it was a group email, I don't think she'd mind it being shared.

The weeks since returning have been, and remain, the most difficult of my life.  The life I knew is gone and the future I believed in out of reach.  I have not been able - and will not now - relay to you all that has happened.  There is no sense in it.  It is taking everything I have to write these few words to you.

My medical bills have escalated and I now face the probability of surgery on my declining hand.  My funds are dwindling and I have returned to work in a real estate market which is not currently meeting the bills.

I am in the process of relocating to Gainesville where I will rebuild my life anew, continuing to work in real estate, and probably, for a time, a part-time job as well to make ends meet. 

I am therefore forced to sell Flight of Years.  I will not itemize here all the costs and work which have gone into her over the last year.  Suffice it to say I have countless hours of work and some $100,000 in her (provable by receipt), including thousands of dollars for rigging, equipment, the Monitor self-steering wind vane, the Air-X wind generator, satellite phone, dinghy and motor, as well as $14,000 for custom-built Ultimate Offshore Sails by the German company, Schattauer Sails.  You have only to read the months of preparations on this web site to see the work, love and money which have been lavished on her. 

I offer Flight of Years, the last Flicka ever built, and the most beautiful boat I have ever seen, for $73,000.00. 

If you are not a serious buyer with the means to purchase, or if you have unkind things to say, please do not write me.  I cannot bear it.

It's also up on her website.  I do have to wonder how her dream of forty years managed to die so tragically over the course of just two months.  Go small, go simple, go now... or you may not get the chance again. 

Got the email too, sad news, but boats come and go, I hope she won't give up on her dream.

Gus

Sad news,...Life is like a river full of curves, go with it or go aground...

Best wishes to her.

Sad news indeed.  I have followed her site and I truely hope she finds peace within herself and does not giveup her dream.  People tend to not understand what their limits are and what drives them until they are forced to deal with situations like what she had to deal with. 

The fact is she faced a situation that was about as worst case as it could be, She coped and made it back on her own.  The fear factor had to be huge, however she made it back.  I hope she finds comfort and confidence in that fact. 

The sea can play some tricky stuff in one's head. When I found myself alone in the middle of the Pamlico sound, and with night approaching fast, it was very crappy. The though of that "I'm almost there" help me keep going. I understand her, I hope she doesn't give up sailing.

Gus

Well this is terrible news.

I thought, nay hoped and prayed she could and would do it. I guess if I gave up everything I had, and garnished so many expectations, I would be out there on the sea, come heck or high water, injury or health. I believe you have one chance in life, and I know Heather was going to grab for the ring, but she slipped.

Now what really bothers me is selling the Flicka!  That means she is giving up. None of us would sell our dream... yet she is selling the dream.

What I am saying is: If we planned or hoped or dreamed of voyaging Mother Earth, we would  hold the items necessary for such dream as long as possible, relinquishing them as a last resort.

I get the impression Heather is giving up too soon. And dare I say:

Her heart was not in it.

I don't think that she is giving up, just a real estimation of that it takes to get her body back into shape. 

There are far to many singlehanders for her to give up sailing. I have met a few that are not anymore.

I've said this before.

I've felt from the beginning of reading about this, that it wasn't truly HER dream, rather her FATHER'S for her and vicariously for him. I'm sure she was into it, but I somehow don't feel it was her PASSION.

Ellen MacArthur has the PASSION, my wife does too.

I hope Heather does very well in her life and if she really wants to do the circumnav or even just close coastal sailng, that she winds up with another boat and does it, in her own good time. I truly wish her well.

I wonder how many people have a dream of a trip like that only to get there and realize it is really not what they thought. 

I have that dream since I was a kid, and really was not able to work towards that dream until I hit mid 30's.  I have only been sailing for about two years however each day I spend on my boat my dream is reinforced.   I wonder if exposed to a situation like she was exposed to would change the importance of that dream for me? 

I guess you never know unless you try.  There is no less honor in trying and realizing it is not your dream after all.   The issue for me is not trying and wondering what if.  Life is to short to live with what if's.

Quote from: ronc98 on March 15, 2008, 09:23:42 AM

I guess you never know unless you try.  There is no less honor in trying and realizing it is not your dream after all.

Grog for that one.

I'd have to agree with Charlie....

Her dream, in her own words, slowly grew over nearly forty years... and yet it died in just two short months.  I think part of the problem was that this dream may not have really been Heather's alone.  Given the tone of her father's letters and posts—it seems this was his dream as much as, if not more, than it was Heather's.

I wish Heather well... and feel sorry for the death of her dream. I had hoped, just following her return to Steinhatchee, that she would have been able to sail and cruise in s/v Flight of Years—slowly gaining the necessary experience and skills to allow her to resume her circumnavigation. It does not look like s/v Flight of Years will be taking any journeys, any time soon.

Hmm.  Dreams come and go and sometimes come again.  She seems rather distraught at having to part with Flight of Dreams; but that doesn't necessarily mean anything.  It is one expensive 20 footer!  If she needs the money now, and it doesn't look like she is going to take off again in the next year or so, it makes perfect sense to me that she might want to sell it.  She could easily spend ten thousand dollars on an older, perfectly functional and seaworthy (if not as nice), alternative and have huge cash reserves to deal with her current emergency.

I don't know if that is her plan.  It doesn't really matter.  If she is like most of us she will first do what she has to do, then figure out what she wants to do.  I hope she takes a lesson from this, though, and if she does do it again go more low key.  I've been reading a few sailing blogs of folks in small boats.  Many of them seem to feel a lot of pressure to go on from the internet denizens. Sailing (especially single handing) is a distinctly personal occupation.  Feeling responsible to a bunch of faceless readers has got to take away some of the feelings of freedom and individual accomplishment.

I almost fell off the bar at reading she spent $100,000. Seriously, the mega budgets people are anticipating for round the world sailing is staggering. It's like a kid I know here in Europe that spent 25,000euros on a solo Atlantic crossing. What the heck? Where is all this money going?

It's guys like the crazy French that built an outrigger and sailed the pond that make me wake up every morning - She could have invested $15,000 in a good boat, and another $15,000 in some zero to hero Yachtmaster super tonnage bullshit course and had the confidence to do the trip (or the knowledge it wasn't for her). And then the rest of the money could have had her eating out in fancy marinas for the next two years in foreign ports. Or heck, $73,000 for a 20ft boat? I saw a 35ft boat designed for northern latitudes for less. Oh, and $14,000 for offshore sails? Must I continue?

I hate to be blunt, her method of tackling the entire project was ridiculous. All her priorities were in the completely wrong places.

I agree on that. She got overwhelmed by the preparation, forgetting all about the meaning, the purpose of the trip and why she dreamed about it in the first place. It got completely out of her hand, if it really got into her hand in the first place. I hate to see money wasted... and only can dream about what I could do if I had half of it in my pocket, or even a quarter of it !!!  :(
Yes, Cheers to these French guys...

I feel it would be appropriate to wish her well in this new chapter in her life. It is also worth keeping in mind the expense she faces in the pending surgery and costs of getting reestablished at a time that is at the very  least, troublesome. Surgery is expensive, as is rehab. And, in America, when you have no insurance but do have net worth, you are in real trouble. But, she is a bright an capable lady and I am sure that time is on her side.

I think we ALL wish her well in this next stage of her life, and we are all saddened that the plans fell through.

Tough thing to go through, no matter WHO'S idea it was originally. Much effort gone for naught.

Of course we wish her well ... And i guess it is why this topic was hot... We know what she must be feeling. I sure know that myself having hit the ground a few time... and even lost a boat on a coral reef. But as we all do, she will learn from this experience and will get out stronger and ready for a new stage in her life, and who knows ? let time pass a bit, if she really have this passion well anchored she will go back to it.
I wish her the best. Bonne chance Heather...

I only caught the end of Heather's voyage on another forum....and sent her an e-mail wishing her well.

Having just read the entire thread here, glad I was not around for the postings from Father  ;D

Unfortunately, she's put the Flicka s/v Flight of Years up for sale.  I was hoping that Heather would get a chance to cruise the Caribbean and such for a year and then try again at a circumnavigation.

Anyone have an update, It would be great to hear she is healthy and decide not to sell her Flicka

Heather's website is no longer... so I doubt much good has happened.  s/v Flight of Years is still for sale (http://www.boats.com/listing/boat_details.jsp?entityid=18939071&srh_prev=No%3d1%26rt%3dboat%26ro%3d1%26r%3d1923012%26entityid%3d19230121%26rs%3dyachtworld.com&srh_next=No%3d3%26rt%3dboat%26ro%3d1%26r%3d1628811%26entityid%3d16288111%26rs%3dyachtworld.com&rev_srh=sfm%3dfalse%26bn%3dadvancedsearch%26fromLength%3d19%26bclint%3d136%26luom%3d126%26bcint%3d4%26is%3dfalse%26slim%3dquick%26psdistance%3d100%26currencyid%3d100%26Ntk%3dboatsEN%26hmid%3d102%26search%3dSearch%26enid%3d100%26ic%3dtrue%26rid%3d104%26locale%3dUS%26sm%3d3%26toLength%3d24%26ftid%3d101), but the price is now only $59,900, compared to the $73,000 that Heather was looking for initially.

QuoteBroker's Remarks
The current owner purchased the boat in 2007 in Bristol condition from the original owners. The plan was to outfit the vessel for bluewater circumnavigation sailing. The owner spared no expense to reach that goal and this listing does not cover every item or expense that is included. Unfortunatley due to an aggravated and ongoing injury, the owner has to abandon those plans.

The boat is absolutely pristine and gorgeous. Everything has been buffed, polished, sanded and re-varnished. We are proud to represent this vessel for sale.

Well I was hoping things changed as they seem to do with time.

Thanks for the update.

I just spent the last hour reading all the posts, and I have read Heather's account when it happened. This is an cautionary tale that we don't see on most circumnavigator's blog sites. They don't say much about the boredom, the isolation and the physical injury that accompanies thier journey. They don't talk about the fear.
Other than her dad's arrogance, I was most impressed by what was in between the lines of her short journey. The time spent locked out of your cabin in the cockpit, alone during a storm. The failures in little things causing one not to seek shelter in the nearest safe haven, or to wait out the storm, but the need to go home...home were people will rescue me. How often as a Captain out in the Gulf have I felt the same way.
There is no need to judge Heather-and I don't think this group has done that. Could she have used more experience? And a bit more self reliance? Of course. But I think what stopped her was not the above- It was fear, the kind of fear that makes us irrational and panic stricken. We see this so little in our civilized lives, and when it happens to us we make sure that we never get in that situation again. I have felt it when I was left on a ledge by a panicked partner-climber during a snowstorm. When you can't think and the threat of death and injury looms over you. I understand the yearning for home in that situation. But that is when and where we show our real mettle. Sailors have to be able to think coolly and calmly in these situations.
I used to teach Desert Survival. It was my privilege to take 6-7 young people out for a few weeks and teach them how to live with little or nothing except what they made for themselves. The first few days were know as "impact" because of the body-slam of going from the jet age to the stone age. Many students did not make the adjustment. It was my observation that 70% of the students would rather lay down and die than work to survive. The problem was not education. I was willing to teach them everything they needed to know. It was once they realized the challenge of surviving the fear of completely changing their world was too much. In two days Heather's world completely changed, and she could not cope with the marine reality. It was a world were she was not in complete control, and the ocean (with some just bad luck) stripped away any illusions. What we do is not for everyone. It is OK for some people to spend their lives in homes looking out at the ocean, rather than sailing around in it.
I wish Heather the best, and told her so in a p.m. sent before her web site went down...

An addendum:

As survival expert Bradford Angier wrote repeatedly:  Survival is about 90% mental, in your head.

Every time you hit a new scary situation, you get some fear.  Whether that is the biggest storm you have experienced so far, or a piece of vital equipment that fails, or a leak in your water tank, or ...

Sleep deprivation multiplies the fear problem.

So does tired, coold and hungry.

When I just started cruising I wraped the dinghy rope around the prop at a marina. I froze and let the wind carry me. I had studied to deploy the anchor. It was there and could have been used but I did not. No real damage done but a good lesson learned. I was tired.

Sounds like most of us here have touched the void and know of the cold imobilizing fear that comes something vital breaks down or we face the unknown. I would like to know what makes some people turn and walk away, and others dive in looking for a solution. It seems to divide all humanity into two groups, and I would say the reaction to fear is formed very early in life. There have been clearcut differences in my survival students in kids as young as 11. The physican in me has a gut feeling that this reaction is probably formed very early, perhaps under the age of three...

Strangely enough, I can't ever recall being that afraid of anything. Not to the point where I was frozen at any rate. I usually find myself reacting to whatever, and getting serious shakes AFTER it's all done with.

Made me think of a book I read "Deep Survival: who lives, who dies, and why" A tag line for it is "When confronted with a life-threatening situation, 90% of people freeze or panic" If that were true I guess I'm in the 10%

I've been in life threatening situations that required both immediate and dramatic action and ones that required slow precise calculated responses. I don't ever remember having nothing as a response.

I guess I also did not think about my life being in the balance, but rather what would be the very best thing to do.

I reckon it is a good idea to try and find out on which side of the fence one stands... ;)

When things get tough, most people discover strengh they think they never had. And sometimes the person you think will take it, won't and the weaker or more fragile will. Being afraid is good, it is when you have no fear, that you can get in  serious trouble. Reaction to fear comes at an early age ? probably, but there is also what life throws at you that helps you get tougher and may be help control the animal fear in you, the complete panic. When you cannot turn and walk away, pure animal instinct I think at the end takes over, for the best of for the worst...

Quote from: newt on June 14, 2008, 11:49:53 PM

Sounds like most of us here have touched the void and know of the cold imobilizing fear that comes something vital breaks down or we face the unknown. I would like to know what makes some people turn and walk away, and others dive in looking for a solution. It seems to divide all humanity into two groups, and I would say the reaction to fear is formed very early in life. There have been clearcut differences in my survival students in kids as young as 11. The physican in me has a gut feeling that this reaction is probably formed very early, perhaps under the age of three...

I don't know when the natural response is formed, but I do think that the shift from the "non-reactive" group to the "reactive" group is rather easy.  I don't ever recall being paralyzed by fear, but then again my role model at an early age (my Dad) was not the sort to let things stop him.

I think moving from unreactive to reactive can occur with one or a combination of:

(a) being in a situation, reacting to it, realizing your reaction,your doing something made a difference to the outcome.

It does does not have to be a 'survival' situation, either.  For some, this realization comes after changing your own flat tire (as opposed to calling for help), fixing something around the house (as opposed to calling someone), getting yourself back to port after some kind of boat failure (as opposed to calling for help), etc.

Our legalistic, sue-happy culture tries to penalize people for making the wrong decision.  This is very unfortunate.  Indecision is by far worse (as we here agree).  Making a decision, even a wrong one, and moving forward is FAR better in 99% of the circumstances than doing nothing.

and/or

(b) having some training.

I know when I was a firefighter, I was scared plenty.  In those days, I did some things that made some of the other firefighters cringe (and be vocally critical); sure, I was scared, but just "did" what I thought needed to be done.

I think the book was called Deep Fear not Deep Survival that Tim speaks about.  It is a very very good book and has alot of things inside that explain why some people live and some die in the very same instance.  It had a good part that talked about where an adult lost in the forest was much less likely to survive then a 5-10 year old child. 

Very good book and I recommend it highly.

There has been alot of good posts here, and I think they touch on the basic nature of beast-> Fear.   If you are lucky Fear is something that you can harness and overcome.

I do not know Heather but from what I have read she did not buckle and did what she needed to do to get back to port.   I wish her and her family all the best.  She was at least out there to try.   The real FEAR is to not try and live with the what ifs.

Of if I could modify what you just said Ronc- the real obstacle that most people face is the action of getting out there and trying, and keep on trying till you succeed. We all have fears. I seem to fail for many times before I ever succeed.  But the successful person just keeps on trying and learns from their mistakes. Perhaps how we use our fear is what sets us apart.
I used to think people that failed just didn't prepare well enough. Well she seemed to prepare- a good sturdy boat, in depth refitting, prior sailing experience. But when push came to shove, there was something that was not there (or maybe something that was there that she had not bargained for). You guys that are already spending lots of time navigating in small boats know about this more than I do. (But I hope to join you in a few years :))

Quote from: ronc98 on June 15, 2008, 09:59:05 PM
I think the book was called Deep Fear not Deep Survival that Tim speaks about. 

Just a point of clarification :) The book I was refering to was called "Deep Survival" below is an Amazon link to  it;

http://www.amazon.com/Deep-Survival-Who-Lives-Dies/dp/0393326152/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213586667&sr=8-1

Quote from: newt on June 15, 2008, 11:04:50 PM

Well she seemed to prepare- a good sturdy boat, in depth refitting, prior sailing experience.

Not to pick nits on this, but she had no prior sailing experience to speak of until this solo circumnavigation plan was hatched and they bought a boat.  Though her planned departure date for a circumnavigation was 2 Jan. 2008, she was still taking lessons in December 2007, and her first ever singlehanded sail was likewise in December of 2007.

Of that first singlehanded sail, she wrote of 3 foot seas as being "heavy seas."  And if I recall correctly, that was not "outside."

Other folks have crossed oceans with as little as, or less, experience than Heather had, so I'm not saying one way or another if I think she "should have" tried it.  But, we do have to be honest here.  Heather was NOT experienced at sailing, much less offshore sailing.

I was very sorry to see Heather give up her trip after all the preparations. There's alot to be said for crawling before you can walk. If she reads this post, I'd like to tell her to take her boat and kick around the Bahamas for a few months. Get to know the boat and sea and slowly stretch your legs. There was a passage that I wanted to make from Ragged Island to Acklins. I didn't feel up to it and was a little apprehensive, so I chickened out and headed back up to Long Island. But I know that next time I'll make that passage with a little more experience under my belt. If I had told people in advance that that was what I was going to do, then I would have been really conflicted and felt ashamed that I chickened out. When I crossed the Gulfstream to Bimini it was a pussycat and I remember thinking to myself that if it was a raging inferno I might not have made it and turning back might have been worse.
If you didn't sell your boat yet, Heather....  Throw on some food and water and take a ride,

While it may have been a very sturdy boat, Cap Smollett is correct about her serious lack of any real sailing experience.  IMHO, she also didn't do a proper shakedown cruise, where some of the problems that plagued her, like the sliding hatch lock design deficiency, might have come out with less dire consequences. 

Initially, right after she retired from her attempt, she said she might sail the Caribbean and Florida waters for a while, but since then she has seemingly given up on sailing entirely.  IMHO, a lot of this may be due to the fact that sailing around the world really wasn't Heather's dream, but one forced on her by her father. 

BTW, Gene, her father, was a member on this forum, and like almost every other forum I had seen Gene participate on, he became very defensive when asked even the simplest questions regarding his daughter's voyage, preparations or choice of equipment and shortly thereafter left. I recently read an editorial letter in an older issue of a sailing magazine, where Gene says how the Norsea 27 is the best and safest bluewater boat, and that no other boat would do for his daughter's voyage.  Yet, at the date of the publication of the letter, Heather had just purchased s/v Flight of Years.  This is probably due to the lag time in the magazine industry...but it was still rather ironic.

Quote from: Captain Smollett on June 16, 2008, 12:21:42 AM

Quote from: newt on June 15, 2008, 11:04:50 PM

Well she seemed to prepare- a good sturdy boat, in depth refitting, prior sailing experience.

Not to pick nits on this, but she had no prior sailing experience to speak of until this solo circumnavigation plan was hatched and they bought a boat.  Though her planned departure date for a circumnavigation was 2 Jan. 2008, she was still taking lessons in December 2007, and her first ever singlehanded sail was likewise in December of 2007.

Of that first singlehanded sail, she wrote of 3 foot seas as being "heavy seas."  And if I recall correctly, that was not "outside."

Other folks have crossed oceans with as little as, or less, experience than Heather had, so I'm not saying one way or another if I think she "should have" tried it.  But, we do have to be honest here.  Heather was NOT experienced at sailing, much less offshore sailing.

My understanding is that Heather is selling her boat in order to pay for medical expenses resulting from the injury she sustained during her attempt.
Some sort of hand injury, as I recall.

~OK

Sorry Tim,    it was "Deep Survival".    I guess I have been spending to much time on the boat.


Still a great book!

Captain-I stand corrected on Heather's education.  I agree that if "ye are prepared ye shall not fear" concept, but do you think that she would have gone even if she had a couple of years of sailing experience?  At least she would have known what she was getting into.  I don't know about this thing about overbearing dads- I can't image projecting a dream of mine on to my kids.  I think all of them would gently tell me where to stick it. A few people on this forum tend to think that education will make someone a seafarer. I think it is in your blood. Either you have it, and then learn about it, or you don't. But  that's just a hunch.
I was born in New Mexico and never sailed a boat till I was 30- yet it was in my blood. I taught myself how to dingy sail, crewed on bigger boats, and ended up single handling my own boat, when I can't convince others  to come along. I feel at home in the sea, even though none of my family feels the same way. That is why I feel that Heather either had it or didn't, and no amount of education made much difference.
Just my two cents- although looking at this threat it appears more than that.

Yes, education eases the learning curve.

We all dream, most here dream of sailing and voyages.Heather shared those dreams.The fun in dreaming is to actually see them take shape.Her year of purchasing her boat and the extensive re-fit showed her excitement in fufilling that dream.Unfortunately her 1st true outing was also her 1st encounter with serious weather as well as seasickness.I've only been seasick once.It truely is debilitating, leaving you feeling totally drained with no energy at all.Throw in wind,waves,LOUD noise,fear and the feeling of being totally 'out of control'...one can see where ideas could be rethought and dreams questioned.The 'dream' of sailing to exotic destinations became the reality of being in a washing machine on 'heavy load' mode.It is violant out there in heavy weather...no other way to describe it.Not the nicest way to begin a dream,but an enevitable reality of going to sea.

..and as I quote : the act of dreaming is important in itself.
Some will spend years building or refitting their boats and never take off. The dream was more important. At least she went one step ahead. She did not pursue but I think it is not negative, she is the only one to know what she learned from that. And though it is probably now a painful moment for her, she will find strength from it.