I learned the basics of sailing in college in the 1970's But never really got much more than that in the way of formal. organized training. I read as much as I can. Recently, I've been thinking about taking a sailing/cruising course (ASA103)
Anyone have advice and or experiences about learning to cruise safely?
Oded Kishony
For me personally, I prefer self-learning via books, discussions with other sailors and by doing. When I was first starting out in sailing, I did take a one-day 'course' with a private instructor just to see if I was on the right track, and it was a very helpful and enjoyable day.
If you've been sailing since the 1970's, I would suspect the ASA 103 course (http://www.asa.com/learn/standard_basic_coastal_cruising.html) would be all review. However, I will say that one of the most important 'skills' one can have is confidence (the good kind, not the bad, overconfident kind), so if taking such a class will boost your confidence level, go for it. That part is psychological, and no one can really answer that for you.
Just my $0.02.
I'll second Smollet's advice... learn by doing in safe conditions, you'll quickly get a feel for what does what and why it does it. Also, just having an experienced friend along will help you, as they will point out possibly obvious things that you're doing wrong (or could be doing more easily another way). And also, there is a plethora of decent books out there. Besides, the physics of sailing is very intuitive...
8)
Amen to the replies.
As well, kicking around some docks with a careful ear will probably lead you to competent skippers who may be glad to have you along as crew for the hands-on variety.
Best of luck!
I was going to ask the same type of question of sorts. I was wondering who took formal classes and who just picked it up from whereever.
In my case I had someone take me out after I had purchased the boat to show me the ropes. :D From there I read a lot of bools and just did it!. I took a powersquad safety course so I would not do anything stupid. From then on I just sailed for a while. Later I joined a singles sailing group and went out with several good sailors and got some tips. However...
Now I am starting the ASA courses this coming weekend. For one of two reason, one I want to safely travel overseas, and to take the passage making class you need the basic classes first. Second I want to teach as a certified ASA instructor to give me some clout, when opening my school. That is part of my retirement goals. I could do all of it without it, but, why not have everything going for me a can.
I guess it all comes down to want do you want to get out of it.
I originally learned via the seat of the pants method. I've been sailing on various boats, from dinghies like a Sunfish, up to larger keelboats in the 30-50' range. Last year I decided to buy my first big sailboat, so I decided to take some sailing courses to help refresh my skills. Before last year, I hadn't sailed in about a dozen years, so a refresher was a good idea.
I'm pretty happy with the results, and think that it was a good idea to take the ASA courses I did.
My opinion is that instruction can be a good thing.
Seat of the pants serves the majority of Sailors well enough to move the boat through the water.... however.......
Sailing (IMHO) is one of those persuits that one must continue to study and refine. Like most things in life, only the truly ignorant believe they have 'arrived'.
Sailing your own boat around, especially without others aboard (as we often do in small boats) does not provide many opportunities for learning.
Sailing with others aboard, especially friends who also sail, is better. Better yet is sailing against others in a regatta. Nothing will make you doubt your sail trim like getting passed by another boat. I was reluctant to race, as I am not a very competitive person but I will say I have learned quite a bit by going around the marks. (my standings have borne this out). :)
I took a course with US Sailing, more so I could encourage my wife as she took it then for anything. I can not point to any specific knowledge that I gained, but I recall having to study for the test..... so there must have been something.
I regularly take others to sail with me. I invite them to point out things they do differently. I do not always agree with their recommendations, but sometimes I do. Something as simple as how they stow a line, may be an improvement over what I am doing.
I would like to take more courses, and recommend them to others who I come in contact with (Dock walkers especially). Especially useful are courses that have you sailing something other then your own boat.
It is much harder to learn some things in a bigger boat like sail trim, steering puffs and lulls, and the effect of sailing between the waves. A sunfish, or similar craft magnify the effects of small inputs so they are more evident.
US Sailing courses are held at my marina. I get to talk to the folks going throught them. Most everyone seems to take something away from them.
I guess it just boils down to the belief that it is good to be open to learning from others.
I was introduced to sailing on a 34' boat with all the bells and whistles. I sailed with a friend on her for about 2 yrs and I asked lots of questions. I wanted to learn and be an active part. I then went to the BVI's and took an ASA combined course where you stay on the boat. I picked up a lot of basics there. I bought PD Sept of 03 and spent a lot of time trying to learn and figure it all out. I love having knowledgable sailors on board because I learn so much. At times, I just watch what they are doing and pick up tips and ask questions to understand the whys and hows. I am not at a public dock, so I do not have access to lots of experienced sailors. There is so much to learn and I feel like I probably missed out on a lot by starting out on a big boat with all the instruments as opposed to a smaller one that requires you to feel the wind and act accordingly. I guess I was a gadget girl from my first training. :)
I fist learned to sail on a gaff rigged Chesapeake Bay skipjack ! but later sailed Lasers, Rhodes 19, Ensign keelboat, O'day 23(my fist boat) and now my Paceship PY26. For a time I had a sailing buddy. We used to relish when the weather turned nasty, going out to practice heaving to and reefing. I now go out with my family, which has caused me to become much more cautious.
I recently bought a useful book "K-I-S-S guide to sailing" (keep it simple series)
it covers a lot of ground with just the right amount of detail (for me)
Lots of time spent sailing, solid information, a reliable boat, all contribute to cofidence building. There was a useful article in Good Old Boat some issues ago about how to deal with 'awkward' situations. Shortly after reading that article I fouled my prop in some line. The engine stalled, we were at the mouth of the harbor with a breakwater behind us and the wind in our face. We quickly raised the jib and sailed off the lee shore onto a beach where I spent the next hour and half cutting the tangled line off the prop and shaft. We felt good about our response in what could have become quite a messy situation.
Oded
Good thread.
I larnt sailin' from readin' books - well, mostly "book" - "Colgates Basic Sailing Theory", it taught me the basics and what was behind them. Noone in my family sailed - or ever had, as far as I know - when my own interest blossomed. Thus, before I ever actually sailed, I had a good working knowledge of what needed doing, and when, on sailboats, although I'd never applied these theories. That was good, because the first time I ever captained a sailboat was purely by accident.
I used to hang out/surf at a sailboat ride/rental operation on the beach. By being friendly and helping drag boats up and down the beach on occasion, I got to know the guys who worked there fairly well, figuring that someday I'd start getting some free rides or instruction. One windy day when the seabreeze had stranded a couple boats a couple miles out at sea with some inexperienced sailors, the manager of the place said to me "You know how to sail, right?". Well, I *did* know how, even though I'd never really done it, so with bravado I said "Yeah...", like it was no big deal. I could talk the talk, obviously...
But then he responded "Good! We need to rescue those folks out there, and all my guys are busy. Will you bring them in?".
:) Oops. :)
I was like 17, so I went ahead and bluffed my way through it, told him "Sure.". One of the working guys took me to the boat via a jet ski, dropped me off, and I figured out on-the-fly how to put my book-larnin' to practical use, and got the boat back in without too much effort or extra distance sailed. After that, I had the confidence to ask to borrow boats from time to time, got in some sailing time and became known as someone who was an avid sailor, and by the next year I was working there. :)
A couple of years later, I became the official Windsurfing Instructor at this place. This taught me the value of taking lessons, when I compared how fast students of mine learned, versus how long it took for *me* to learn the same basics principles on my own.
I was self-taught in this sport, too, I'd figured it out during slow times at work, and become somewhat proficient. When offered the position as instructor, part of the deal was that my attendance at a Mistral Windsurfing Instructors School was to be paid for by the business owner. That program gave me a structured format for the classes I taught, and I still recommend to this day that anyone interested in that sport 1) read up on the basics, then 2) take a beginners class. It makes a *big* difference in how fast you'll learn. My lessons were 3 hours in length, and I never had a student who wasn't able to at least perform the basic functions needed to sail by the end of the first 1.5 hours of instruction. Compared to my own 3-4 *days* of trying to get those basics down, it showed me that sometimes lessons are invaluable. :)
I sailed for many years and didn't really learn anything. I just kept doing the same things year after year.
Then I started reading, experimenting, getting out on other boats, racing. Realized how much I didn't know.
You have to take some lumps. There are going to be mishaps and breakdowns.
Since I'm a visual learner, I rented a number of sailing instructional DVDs from Netflix over the winter.
The videos are mostly terrible. Really awful. But, I'll watch anything if sailing is involved.
The best so far is the 5 disc "Annapolis Book of Seamanship" series, also "Heavy Weather Sailing" and "Sailing With Confidence."
They also have some GPS instructional videos.
Don't expect much, but every little bit helps.
They have the "Latitudes and Attitudes" TV series too. Its bad, but what the heck
My story is probably typical of many. Like so many on this board, I learned mostly by the seat of my pants.
My family spent summers on the Cape Cod side of Buzzards Bay since I was 3 years old, so I can say that I effectively grew up on the water. (I'm 58.)
Even though my father served in the Navy in WWII and commanded a small vessel in the Pacific, my family never owned boats. When I was 11 years old, Dad bought a Beetle Swan--a 12-foot Marconi-rigged catboat that's generally considered to be the very first fiberglass production sailboat. A neighbor gave my father one sailing "lesson," and Dad passed his limited knowledge onto me.
A few days later I watched my father capsize by holding tight to the mainsheet as he executed a flying gybe. I figured if he could survive that, so could I, and I started sailing on my own. When the little Swan got destroyed by one of the hurricanes of the 1950s, we moved up to a beautiful 18-foot racing catboat called a Hustler (a hard-chined boat designed by Phil Mower and still raced at a few clubs near Boston). I sailed that boat all over Buzzards Bay, under every condition imaginable, including violent storms when I shouldn't have been on the water.
I built a reputation as a really good sail-handler, and soon neighbors were inviting me to crew for them in Herreshoff 12 1/2s and Bullseyes that raced out of the local yacht clubs. (My parents wrongly considered the clubs snobbish, so we never joined.) I discovered that I knew lots about finding puffs and handling a mainsail--but had LOTS to learn about using a jib, getting the most speed out of a boat and, of course, racing tactics.
I've got to agree with s/v Faith that racing is a wonderful way to learn about sailing--unless you're on a boat with one of those skippers who turns into an adrenaline-driven Frankenstein. I was lucky, as I crewed mostly with friends or friends' parents, and they were not insanely competitive.
Later, I sailed an O'Day Mariner, and for some 18 years a Marshall Sanderling (an 18-foot gaff-rigged catboat). I've also crewed on bigger boats in races (a C&C 38) and on delivery trips (including one from Rhode Island to Nova Scotia directly across the Gulf of Maine). In every case, I learned something new.
Still, after all these decades on the water, I feel like there's more I could learn, especially since most of my sailing is now done singlehanded. Once again, I've got to agree with "Faith" that sailing alone in the same boat doesn't stretch your experience very much. I read lots of books, and experiment with new gear.
Some day, I suppose, I should take a real class.
--Joe
Quote from: Oldrig on June 03, 2006, 01:34:55 PM
Some day, I suppose, I should take a real class.
--Joe
Or teach one. ;)
Ta Da!!!!
I just returned from my weekend ASA keelboat class. I am now offically a captain who knows what he is doing, in the eyes of the ASA and other offical types. Step 1 of the plan complete.
Congrats! :) :)
Ah Zen-
You have them all fooled.... Lady Zen told me how much she paid them to let you graduate. ;)
Congratulations... I hope you had fun. I have one more course in my "Macro Cruising" program left to take. Looks like I'll be taking it in August...
Dan
Quote from: AdriftAtSea on June 04, 2006, 11:42:56 PM
Ah Zen-
You have them all fooled.... Lady Zen told me how much she paid them to let you graduate. ;)
Congratulations... I hope you had fun. I have one more course in my "Macro Cruising" program left to take. Looks like I'll be taking it in August...
Dan
I hate it when she does that :D
I'll be doing the next section in Aug. also. A good time to be on the water!
A long, long time ago, in a world, far,far away, I was a musician playing music for my living....
One of the places we would play at every year was Mackinac Island in Michigan. It was here that I got my first taste of sailing! Man, what a great introduction! I instantly fell in love and swore that one day I would own and sail my own boat.
Fast forward twenty years...
Life is what happens to us when we're busy making other plans.
However, I finally was able to take a step in the right directly and took sailing lessons at the Michigan State University sailing club. Sailing FJ's, Scots, Hobie Cats, etc. Loved every minute of it and I was on my way.
In the five years since then, we have owned a Hobie Cat and, most recently, a 22 foot sloop. Still learning and having the time of my life. The family quite enjoys it as well.
Although I took a basic course, I am constantly expanding my knowledge by reading everything I can get my hands on, trolling the web for anything sailing related, and bugging all you more experienced types!! ;D
And, of course, by sailing, sailing, sailing....
Fair winds,
Nick
I hear, feel and relate to your enthusiasm Nick!! It is a passion that just takes over you. I never feel more content, at peace and more clear with my thoughts than when I am on my little boat just allowing all my senses to take in all the wonderful gifts God has blessed us with.
Of course that peace does get a little compromised if the floorboards are floating... heh Craig? :o :-\
Always enjoy the ride. :) I read something recently that said instead of hills and valleys in life, it is more like railroad tracks. There is usually a track of good things going on in your life and beside of it is also a track of some bad things. The bad would be the floating floorboards, the good is just being out there!! ;)
Quote from: Pixie Dust on June 16, 2006, 11:23:17 AM
There is usually a track of good things going on in your life and beside of it is also a track of some bad things. The bad would be the floating floorboards, the good is just being out there!! ;)
So true, so true.
Quote from: Pixie Dust on June 16, 2006, 11:23:17 AM
Always enjoy the ride. :) I read something recently that said instead of hills and valleys in life, it is more like railroad tracks. There is usually a track of good things going on in your life and beside of it is also a track of some bad things. The bad would be the floating floorboards, the good is just being out there!! ;)
Anyone, besides me, think that Connie is an eternal optimist? Not that being one is bad, as I am often said to be one myself.
Self taught . Nothing wrong with taking a class though.
Quote
Anyone, besides me, think that Connie is an eternal optimist? Not that being one is bad, as I am often said to be one myself.
Quote
:) ;) :D I think I am...... That is not
always a good thing. I do try to find the good in things, but sometimes it can be a bit of a challenge. ;D ??? :P
I took sailing lessons in 1979 in marina del rey california.a 27 foot soling.but I really didnt learn until I bought my first boat---a 23 foot jolly roger.then I took a course in coastal piloting thru the coast guard auxilliary.I never heard of a "spiralling loxodrome" till then.I got lotsa experience--but sitting out there for four days at a time taught me to be patient.when the slightest of wind comes---just set it an'ferget it.dont ask for more.I will never forget daysailing with a rikky racer on his fin keel spade rudder huge genny sheeted in too tight.he wuz jumpin' all over the deck tryin' ta' go faster.to this day I cant understand why there's all this stuff---to make sailboats go faster----they buy these hi-tech super secret flying fin keel ultra light displacement hulls---then they out fit them with mast steps,full length dodgers and bimini tops,radars,self steering vane gears,-lotsa extra fuel cans on deck,obviously to extend range under power--baggywrinkles on the spreaders---life nets on the life lines- all sortsa' heavy anchor gear on deck----I mean all this suff ya see on heavy displacement hulls---maybe they're jus' tryin'ta'get the best of both worlds.its like getting an ultra light steam roller.or perhaps they will come up with a super tanker with a retractable keel.
Quoteits like getting an ultra light steam roller.or perhaps they will come up with a super tanker with a retractable keel.
;D
I get the hint that this forum may have some folks that are from this era, enjoy some relaxed music, and would appreciate this bit of information.
Hon 120-304 Parrothead Studies
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brought to you via the Coconut Telegraph and confirmed through the University of North Carolina Wilimington, An Honors course which delves into the study of the Jimmy Buffett fans. With field trips to the Margaritvalle Cafe and interviews with Parrotheads at tailgate parties, the students embark on a journy into the world of leasure.
In an e-mail Jimmy says that if he had taken this class when he was in college he would have flunked it also.
QuoteDescription: Using various theories of leisure behavior, the Office for Parrothead Research investigates the motivations and experiences of Jimmy Buffet fans (a.k.a. Parrotheads). Students in this seminar will (a) learn and apply various theories of leisure behavior, with a focus on serious leisure, to the Parrothead phenomena; and (b) learn and apply research skills in survey and qualitative methods to study Parrotheads.
LOL! If they'd have had classes like that when I was in college, I might have gradyeeated!
;D
i know what you mean. :D
If I would have known they had courses like this - I might have gone further than high school.
We had the extreme pleasure of being able to sail to his concert in Toronto last year - the Ontario Place Marina is approximately 300 yards (don't ask me what that is in metres) away from the venue where he played. Unfortunately, tailgate parties such as you are allowed stateside, are unlawful in the great white north - but we had one heck of a sailgate party!! Was amazing to see how some of the folks had decorated their boats.
Sadly, Jimmy did not grace us with a tour date this summer. There's always next year. sigh
Cheers!
John
Why didn't they have classes like that when I was in college??? :)
Ahhh, jeez...
I am a big parrothead. I grew up in Colorado -- Jimmy had a place in Aspen. I saw him several times at the summer ritual called "Deaf Camp Benefit". Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, Eagles and Jimmy. It was held on the green slopes of Snowmass resort...man those were the days. I have seen him several times since and although always a GREAT show, nothing comes close to my memories.
Is the class long distance?
So far as I can tell, the curricula for US Sailing and ASA Basic Keelboat are the same.
Anyone know of any key differences? Anyone familiar enough with both to recommend one over the other?
My wife has decided she would like to take some lessons. We have an ASA group about 45 minutes from here (on an inland lake), another about 2 hours from here and a US Sailing school about 5-6 hours from here (but near some good areas to visit).
Costs are roughly the same. ASA is 16 hours (2 days), US Sailing is 24 hours (3-4 days, depending on weather). But again, from the simple descriptions on the web sites, the material covered looks identical, so I don't know about the 16 vs 24 hour differences.
US Sailing is more racing oriented, especially in the later courses IIRC. ASA is more cruising/daysailing oriented.
My experience has been in researching them no matter the method, the individual class and teacher can be very different.
The firstmate and I took from keelboat to bareboat ASA courses grouped together in an onboard classroom situation. Although it was great for us because primarily all we wanted was the bareboat certification, it would not have been ideal for someone with little experience.
I suggest getting references from people that have taken the class as to its effectiveness.
A very good point...the instructor makes a huge difference... some instructors are far better than others. If you're looking to cruise, getting an instructor who is primarily a racer may not be a good fit.
Ahoy Captain! I have taken from 101 to 106 with ASA, and I would agree with the instructor is the most important part. Talk to the ones teaching the course, even over the phone you can learn quite a bit.
With that caveat however,
I would say that the best instructor I have ever had was a 70 year old fossil that seemed to do things that I thought were highly questionable on the trip. I think if I had talked to him in depth before the course I would have walked. (He had a great distaste for doctors and the medical field in general) Man would I have missed out. He could have sailed a dingy through a hurricane, and probably has. There was nothing he has not done (at least twice) during his forty years on yachts. He sails out of south Florida and to this day I have a great deal of respect for the old pirate. I review notes from his class every time I go out in the ocean. The stories from those 7 days have become some of the family folklore. I would go on, but you get the idea.
Good luck in your search... :)
Hello All:
This winter I had the opportunity to teach both USSA and ASA courses through Coastal Passage Making/Advanced Coastal Cruising. I am an ASA Instructor Evaluator certified through 106/ACC.
I agree completely that the instructor, boat, sailing venue, and classmates are the biggest contributor to success or disappointment. Love the story about the old codger!
The ASA tests are the same ones I took in 1985. Much of the material is out of date. The ASA exams are a bit harder than the USSA ones. However, the USSA exams follow the text well. The ASA exams assume a rich discussion in class that prepares one for the exam. (Chuckle...)
If the instructor is able to stay on track and not get too distracted by the students, either program will do.
Charter companies don't care which you have. (They mostly care that you have a sufficient limit on your CC to cover "mistakes." More on charter companies later.) The ASA is more widely recognized than USSA. There are more schools and students. I hear that 80% of USSA certifications come from the Offshore Sailing School program which feed Moorings and Sunsail.
In general, more time on board with an instructor is a plus. The second part is practice after the classes. If you have a place to practice and do get in sailing practice, the learning experience is solid.
Best,
Norman
I finally signed up for the classes June 26th in Ludington, MI. It's a Wednesday night - Sunday night class never leaving the boat except to eat breakfast and supper on Thursday and Friday.
I plan to test out of the basic keelboat course (I understand this is a common challenge). So far the only students signed up are myself and a friend of mine. The boat is a 38.5 Hunter. The skipper says he'll sail with just us two on board.
What have you salty sailors learned over the years that I should be seeking from my teacher? I think navigation will come fairly easily for me as I have piloted small planes for years, and the knots I can pick up, but I was hoping you could tell me what I should ask and really wring out of the instructor.
I would like to bareboat this winter in the BVI or AVI.... Maybe take along another more experienced couple...
The things that go wrong on most cruises are related to stopping the boat. You know: docking, mooring, anchoring, man overboard, and reefing.
Night sailing and night navigation are important skills. If you can get some night sailing where you practice steering without the compass, stay on course by feeling the wind angle, heel angle, etc that will be very useful.
BVI and USVI sailing requires a credit card only. The sailing is so simple. It is all line of sight and there are few buoys. Where folks get wrapped up is going alongside the water and fuel dock.
have fun and write about your adventures
Norm's points are excellent... boats far from objects to hit are generally not going to have as many possible problems as they are when they get close to land, docks, moorings, etc.
Thanks for the replies, I will get some night sailing in if the weather isn't too rough on Lake Michigan. I have never done night sailing, although I have sailed into docks and buoys (sailing by braille I call it). Of course there were plenty of people there to see me run into things!
My biggest sailing fears are fast approaching storms and going bump in the night with whatever lurks below the water. The whole cold-water-sinking-ship thing should probably scare everyone though.
In terms of biggest fears:
Weather systems behave in a generally logical fashion.
-In the North, weather moves from West to East. Look at the Western sky for clues about the near future weather. I used to watch the Weather channel and try to predict the weather for my immediate area for that day. In time, I got pretty good at it. Correlating clouds and temperature changes with weather changes.
-Get a barometer (I have a Casio wristwatch with barometer that is an essential tool for cruising) and learn to correlate the barometer changes to weather changes.
In a little while, you'll see the weather coming and adapt to it before it whacks you by surprise.
Things that go bump are not more common at night than during the day. Are you dodging stuff all day while out sailing? If so, they will be there at night. We have lobster trap markers to deal with in the North East. We also have learned how to deal with them in terms of lookout, routes, and dodging.
If you feel safe sailing during the day you should be able to feel safe at night.
I will be interested in hearing about your training cruise. I head out on a week long one tonight. Just finished one last week. Then... a few weeks off for self indulgent sailing on our own boat for fun!
If you're planning to be out coastal cruising for any period of time, practice reefing your boat, until you can get your reefs tucked in almost instinctively. If you can get your mainsail reefed in under three minutes, that is probably as good as you'll need.
Remember, the best time to reef is when you first think you might need one. It is always easier to sail a bit undercanvassed, than it is to try and get a reef tucked in after the wind really picks up.
Before you start, make a list of things that you feel really uncomfortable doing.
During your training, do them again and again.
Start another list.
Wow, there's some great advice here! Thanks everyone!! :)
So, tomorrow's the day you start "lessons."
Good luck as in, I hope you have fine shipmates and a variety of conditions. Tell us the story, OK?
If you feel up to a BVI charter, let me know. I spent a few years there in that business.
Norm
Hi Norm,
Without trying to hijack this thread, could you give me a brief rundown of the charter business in BVI. I want to bareboat this winter, I was thinking of actually renting in Florida and taking a few days up and back with me and my son, then getting the rest of the crew on at San Juan. ... just to give me a bit more time on the boat. I am very comfortable with yachts up to 50' and have lessons and experience offshore and making night landfalls in unknown waters (and a good chart).
What do you think would fit for me?
Quote from: newt on June 30, 2008, 11:49:56 AM
I was thinking of actually renting in Florida and taking a few days up and back with me and my son, then getting the rest of the crew on at San Juan.
I think you'll have trouble finding a mainstream charter company to sign up to that plan. I know that Moorings will approve one-way and round trip charters between the BVI and St. Martin for repeat customers with a good record and solid resume, but that's only one overnight.
Most of the charter companies have "no night sailing" written into their contracts. They are very serious about it.
In the BVI, don't miss White Bay on Jost Van Dyke, Marina Cay, Saba Rock in North Sound of Virgin Gorda, or (if you like a little seclusion) Key Bay on the South side of Peter Island.
sail fast, dave
I'm back!! ;D
What a great time I had in Ludington, MI sailing on Freedom, a Hunter Legend 37.5. My instructor was Captain Dale Fitch, a very calm and nice man, who never had a bad word for anyone.
I took the three classes with a friend of mine, Ken, who always talked about his sailing adventures, but I came to find out they were all on a 14' sunfish type boat with a single sail. He wasn't quite as ready for these classes as I was.
We arrived on the Badger ferry at 6 pm and Dale met us at the dock. He transported us to Freedom and we put our gear on board and looked around a bit while he called his wife to see if she was up for dinner with the boys from Wisconsin. Luckily she was and I recommended a brewery I had spotted on the way to the boat. Game on, we picked up Carolyn and went to eat.
The brewery in Ludington is an excellent place to eat and have a few wonderful beers. I figured if the first three were good, the next three would be better, and the three after those would be just marvelous! I was right, and after I spent $60 on beer and an appetizer, I was poured into the truck and driven back to Freedom.
The morning came waaaaaay too early, and I downed a few aspirin and met the sunlight. I was in the aft berth, Ken took the front, Dale wisely slept at home. Nothing was said of my night of imbibing and I almost thought I'd get away with my indiscretion, but later that night I would hear Carolyn tell me how I kept saying, "Bring on the storms, I love high winds, we'll have a ball!"
This was Thursday morning, and we prepped Freedom for departure. Weather was forecast to be bad through Sunday (hence my bravado after several ales) but we would sail no matter what. We worked on motoring around, docking with iron wind, and sailed a bit into Lake Michigan with 8 - 10 knot winds. This day went quickly, then it was back to port, secure the sails and boat, and back out for dinner at the yacht club. Dale signed us up for a $7 grill-your-own-steak and they were really wonderful steaks! Two beers later an older gent named George said he was taking out his power boat for a late buzz around the marina. We were welcome to come along, and everyone was gathering their coolers of beverages, but I thought I'd lay low this night, try to make a better impression on my new friends.
Dale dropped us back at Freedom and I walked to take a shower before bed. Rain was forecast and I thought I'd beat the weather. The Marina in Ludington has a fantastic shower and restroom facility, but from Freedom's slip it was a half mile walk. Not bad in nice weather, but a real long way in the rain or when a pile of onion rings is being worked through your system by 10 pints of beer. :-[
Okay, Friday! Back out to the lake, sun shining (oh, to be a weather man and only need to be right half the time) time to practice 'man overboard'. We threw this poor man windward, leeward, aft, every which way that we could chuck a throwable preserver. Most of the time we had him back on board in less than a minute. We saw something floating in the water and sailed it down to find it was a bottle with a note in it (or at least a wrapper) but lost it before we could find a way to scoop a bottle from the lake. Lots of practice today with tacking and jibing, using proper commands and working as a crew. We learned more systems on the boat like proper use of the stove and head, the ice box, diesel care and troubleshooting, hull repair, just all kinds of things. When we got back we took our Basic Keelboat test and I am happy to say I aced that one!! :D
Dinner Friday was at a pizza place with more great beer, and then off to another yacht club. (Do all yacht clubs have $1.25 beers?) Lots of laughter and talk, we found out old George just got his stinkpot and it was fun to rib him about when he 'used to sail'. He lamented that after sailing for 60 years, he takes a break for a bit and now he's not a sailor! :o I got him once by asking what sails used to be made form back when he sailed..... All in good fun, and we all had a great time.
I wanted to look around town so while Ken hit the bunk, I walked uptown. The Macker was in town, I had no idea what it was, but learned the Gus Macker was a basketball tournament of sorts for charity. It is a huge event! I walked about 5 miles just looking around town, then a mile back to Freedom so I could get some shuteye.
Saturday, We tested for the Coastal Cruising exam and I passed with a good score. I made a couple clerical errors and a bonehead error too. Then we stocked Freedom with bratwurst (we're from Wisconsin after all) and headed to Pentwater. The forecast was to be 2 - 4 foot waves, 20 knot winds with a small craft advisory coming out in the afternoon, turning 3 - 5 with 25 and thunderstorms. Needless to say, it was beautiful sailing into 18 knot winds all the way to Pentwater. We found anchorage and used the stove and grill to prepare dinner. A storm did come roaring in from the west and in our protected harbor it was quite amazing to watch. Ken commented he hadn't watched a storm since he was a child. One of life's simple pleasures! The wind was gusting to 30 knots and I was really glad we were protected from this storm. Rain came down in sheets. It cleared after an hour and we had a beautiful evening. A few beers and we went to bed around 11.
Sunday, we took the dingy to breakfast at a diner and then prepped Freedom. We were really a crew now, we all knew what to do, and what was expected. Motor to the anchor while running the windlass, ready the main, switch to batteries 'all'. Fire up the diesel, turn for the canal leading to Lake Michigan. BUT WAIT ! What did I see ahead? A sailboat! Headed out 1/4 mile ahead of us, his genoa already up, motoring. Ken was at the helm, I urged him to run the rpm's up a bit and let's give chase. Dale was a racer for many years, and he smiled a big grin, Ken said that was ridiculous. ???
Up until this point, I overlooked Ken turning to port when Dale said to turn starboard, and Ken heading up when we need to turn down, but at this very instant I began to wonder if he was truly cut out for sailing. :o Every sailor I know gives chase, and by now we saw the boat in our sights was a Hunter 34, about half the weight, a little less sail, and 1/4 mile ahead. Dale read the boat's name and knew the skipper, an old racing man himself. I went below and put on a life preserver, I told the boys this was 'gonna get serious'. Dale laughed, but he was surely in with me. The 34 turned out of the channel on a broad reach with just his genoa. We turned South into the wind and I hoisted the main faster than I have ever hoisted a main sail. Dale barked "Head to Starboard" and Ken turned to port towards the sea wall. "The other Starboard!" Dale yelled, I guess he could raise his voice! Ken brought us back around, and we unfurled our genoa.
Ken manned the helm, and fought the waves so much that we zigged and zagged port and starboard. Dale commented that the 34 skipper would surely think we were in distress and maybe turn around, allowing us to catch up. :D Went below and put on a sweatshirt, winds were 20 knots and cold, and the waves tossed the boat a bit, making walking in the cabin a real challenge. I came topside and offered to relieve Ken so he could get a jacket on. Ken agreed, he looked a bit pale, really stressing out at this point. I used the 34 to point Freedom and caught the 34 quite quickly. As we passed to leeward, the crew on the stared at us, then turned about and raised their main. They looked short-handed and probably didn't really want the main up, but they were just passed and I knew how they felt! :P
They never had a chance, our bigger sails and longer waterline prevailed. The 34 tried to tack and catch a faster point of sail, but we held a steady 6.7 knots almost true to course. WOOOHOOO!! Back into port, drop and stow the sails, motor back to the marina for a head pump-out and tie up at the dock. We took the final Bareboat test and I did well again, although this was the hardest of the three for me. A few celebratory beers with lunch and then we scrubbed down Freedom and covered the instruments. Dale received a phone call, it seems some friends had shown up and were raiding his refrigerator at home, so Ken and I not wanted to be a burden asked him to go do his thing while we looked around town one last time before the ferry took us home.
Neat town, Lundington, MI, and we shopped some eclectic places. A light dinner and a walk back to the ferry for an 8'oclock departure, and we were ready to be home. The ferry takes 4 hours to cross the lake, then I had a 2 hour drive home. It was great to be home, and now I have some wonderful memories of sailing the Hunter Legend.
My little CP19 was so small in front of the shop when I pulled in that night. I don't know if I'll keep her or trade up, with 3 kids and a first mate. I'd kind of like to have more of these kinds of adventures and the 19 just isn't big enough for all of us. :-\
I guess I'll play it by ear!
Uhoh, someone sounds like he's got three-footitis, maybe six-footitis even. :)
Wonderful story, Lake. Thanks for the write-up.
Good story, and well told! Grog! :)
And a sailing story with both Beer and Brats in it? Double Grog!!! ;D
What a story! I am glad to hear about your adventures. As the captain/instructor I seldom here the unvarnished truth of a trip. Good that you got some wind to see what that's all about.
Now... go cruising! Charter companies are usually pretty hip to offering boats to newly certified sailors. If you get a few more days of sailing into your log book, so much the better. (More on the charter business later).
Cubemonkey and I just completed a delivery of a 1985 Pearson 28-2 from NYC to Cape Cod Canal Marina for a couple. Take a look at that boat for your family. If four adults can fit comfortably, I reckon a family of five will have room to spare! It is... after all... just nine little feet! (Apologies to Dan for steeling his "footitis" reference.)
Thanks for the report.
Norman
Newt
Re: BVI Chartering
Maybe worth a new thread?
To keep the record straight: I work for Rob and Gina Swain at their company, swainsaililng.com. They are a company that is in the certification and instruction business. Gina is also a bare boat or skippered charter boat broker in the BVI. I know people at Sunsail, Moorings, Horizon, TMM, Catamaran Co., and so on. None of this is a sales pitch.
Charter companies have prohibitions about sailing at night unless one of their skippers is aboard. It makes sense since there are few navigational aids in the Caribbean. It is unbelievably dark at night at night. Americans comment about it wondering why it seems darker in the BVI than at home. I mean... isn't dark everywhere at night?
The Antigua companies are a bit less rigorous about the night sailing since the Antigua to Guadeloupe leg is 50 nm and takes all day with a landfall after dark in Deshaies, Guadeloupe. Visa versa the return trip. I doubt you could get permission to do that trip as a first time charterer.
The best brokers and charter companies look at your resume. Resumes are helpful since the companies do not want you out in a boat you cannot handle. You won't have fun and return next year... The better the resume, the better the boat. It also helps if two people are ASA Bareboat certified.
Getting used to the boat and place. Great plan. Do it in the VI. The idea of sailing from Florida to PR and then the Virgins is great but you'll need the winter off and your own boat. FL to PR is a long beat, almost a week of sailing to windward if you have a good boat.
The best way to really relax, enjoy sailing, and see the best of the Islands (US or British or both) is with a captain. The increased cost is small in terms of quality of deliverables.
A question to the Team Sailfar is: who's chartered down there and what did they find? The Caribbean is a big place and I have seen a small slice of it, in fact.
Best, Norman Martin
Thank you for your words of advice concerning bare boating in the BVI. You have confirmed what I already was coming to a conclusion on, ie nobody will let me do what I want to do with their boat, so I might as well get my own and keep it with a small charter company somewhere in the Caribbean. Perhaps a new thread is in order, as I do not want to decrease the fun that Lost Lake is having with his first lessons in a bare boat.
See ya in the new thread. ;D
Newt and Norm,
Your posts fit right in with this thread! This is why we get Bareboat certifed, and why we take the cruising classes. While I have sailed for years on my own, these classes were intesting, informative and best of all FUN! I mean, this was only $900.... I think it was a steal... And to think that one can take the class in the BVI is just outstanding.
I have a friend with a 38' Beneteau that will let me sail his boat, but it is about 5 hours away from me, so I'll only get to sail it a few days this year. It will be great log book time though! I'll also splash my little 20 footer in my lake and sail it there to build time. I can always pull it out to take it to bigger water, but why let her sit on her wheels when her bottom paint is like new? Having your boat in your backyard promotes instant sailing as desired.
I took my classes through Northern Breezes, and I think they work with TMM in the BVI. I'll shop around though. My plan is to find a willing co-captain for a February Bareboat in the BVI, or I'll hire a skipper while I'm down there.
PS: I just checked out the Pearson 28, and it does have a fantastic layout for my family. My son is 6, and he'd love the v-berth, my girls each would get a settee, and me and my first mate in the aft. Now that I'm spoiled by the Hunter 38, I'd have to see what the Pearson has for an icebox and storage. I think I'll look around and see if I can find a Pearson in the flesh... Errrrr... Glass I mean!
LostLake:
P 28s have nice enough galleys. The ice chest is on the starboard side and doubles as a chart table. The cooking space in the galley is shy unless you use the salon table. Fancy cooking isn't really part of family cruising anyway. We used the gas grill one night and that was fine. An Igloo ice box in the cockpit locker would have been a good thing for the beverages.
There are lots of good boats. The best one is the one you actually take sailing.
The owners bought a Portland Pudgy dink that is amazing. Easy to tow, great rowing, and fits four adults. Bit pricey I suppose but worth it.
TMM is a good outfit. I skippered a couple of their cats last winter. Great service and nicely cared for boats.
Hope you get in some sailing this weekend. Our plan is morning in the garden and evenings on the boat. The house is going to heck ever since we bought Averisera! Averisera looks fine.
Norm
Crusing is more fun than just sailing. I'm glad your hooked Lost Lake. ;D
If you are considering putting a boat in charter you should read sailonline.com . They are biased toward the Moorings (so am I), but will give you perspective you won't get any other way.
I got kind of an interesting perspective on this last winter. I am not certified and I have only been on a few boats larger than 21', usually as a passenger and the little bit of crewing I have done on big boats was not extensive at all. But on the smaller boats I have a lot of experience dating back decades and including power boats as well as sail boats. Anyway, I wondered if there were courses out there for people who wanted to pretty much jump straight into sailing the bigger boat without 2 or 3 days of stuff you mostly already know. I know there would be a few gems in there for me, but the tradeoff of spending half of an expensive vacation week (because I was looking into doing this in the Carribean) mostly indoors rehashing info I know was not appealing to me. I sent out a few queries by email after finding some likely places by searching around and following links from some sailing sites I frequent. The answer was pretty consistent - either you take the specific course for certification, pay a lot of money for private lessons, go on a crewed charter and observe or - and this is the option that surprised me - go ahead and charter a bareboat.
That last option surprised me because I was very clear about my experience, but nearly every reply I got said that certain charters were possible without certification and that they expected to have to spend some time helping familiarize you with the boat even if you were certified. One reply was very specific. He said the GPS would be in charge - there would be waypoints set near each anchorage to let me know where to drop sail and go to engine on the way in and where it was okay to raise sail on the way out. I would have to demonstrate good basic boat driving skills and practice setting the anchor and raising/lowering sail a couple of times. There would be no docking involved. They would get me in and out of the slip. That's all he said - the next part is somewhat guesswork on my part. I think the prescribed routes were where they could keep tabs on you; they may have crewed charters or other boats around the anchorages. I am guessing the distances were pretty short. I think having a high credit limit would be required.
I didn't follow up on any of them. For various reasons, a trip down there didn't pan out like I hoped (the rest of the family outvoted me and we went on a big cruise ship), but my time will come...
How did she do and which did she take?
Merged a couple of topics here, some good info and experiences.