Our thoughts and prayers are with you CJ! Stay safe.
On the SF chat yesterday [Thursday] evening, Charlie told of his plans to go to friends (and fellow sailors) San Antonio, Texas. He said that... "it was sorta decided for me...they offered high dollar rum :)"
His house and sailboat Tehani are in Port Lavaca, as is Joe's (Cyric30) boat, and Charlie's friend Robin's boat is also in a marina in that area. RALay told us that Woody was happy to hear as his relatives call and say they're leaving [the Austin area for a safer place, I believe].
I've been following the weather forecast here...
http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=28.616&lon=-96.6236
...which has links to more on the storm.
The forecast has the storm lingering over the area for days with potentially more than 20 inches of rain over much of the coast and well inland.
Join Woody in his thoughts and wishing the best for all affected.
Thanks Jim. Juust dropped anchor :) in San Antonio. 150 miles north of my house.
My friend here has his Vanguard 32 moored in Port
aransas. Which looks to be the bulls eye. He's very worried. Says fhe marina docks aren't the best
Woody's family is near the coast. Austin is about 3h inland. Austinites probably don't need to worry unless they're on the banks of some of the creeks that flood frequently.
Glad to hear you're out, CJ. It's hard to be optimistic about the boats, but we're really hoping for the best for them and your sweet little house. The only good thing I can say about that marina in a storm is that at least, at $4/ft/mo, most folks who have been there awhile have probably saved almost enough in slip rent to cover the cost of their boat.
I am glad to hear Charlie has made it to safety.
I now only worry For charlies house and our boats, im not to proud to admit i am scared as to what will happen to our boats.
Looks like Port L is going to miss the worst. Winds just at 50 mph. Down south around Corpus looks bad
So far I'm not worried about house or boats
I don't get it. Marine forecast for PL says E 40-50kts gusting 65kts. But the marine forecast for Corpus also only says gusts to 75kts. Shouldn't somebody have a Cat 3 forecast?
65kts out of the East at NLM still sounds terrifying to me. That's straight in the gap in the breakwater assuming the breakwater isn't underwater. You've got nerves of steel, CJ.
There are a couple of crazy tow captains riding it out over at Alcoa. They're posting updates on Reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TropicalWeather/comments/6w1jmj/we_are_tied_up_in_port_lavaca_with_another_boat/
Charlie
your assessment does help ease my mind some, so thank you.
Ralay dont Jinks it please :)
looks like it took a little wooble to the north in these last few loops. this is a noaa site with real time station data.. tide already 3 feet above prediction in some areas..good luck texans
https://www.tidesonline.nos.noaa.gov/geographic.html
Water at PL is up 4 ft. Blowing 30kts, gusting 37kts out of the NE. POC is blowing 41kt gusting 52kt out of the East. Probably still have a foot of breakwater sticking up.
Got a LOT worse later. Worst storm since Carla in 61
Worried about boat for sure. Probably will ned new roof at least on house
Have to just wait and see. Still would be stupid to go back. Still a hurricane!!
Any word from your friends down in Rockport and Port A? They got hit pretty badly I think.
No real word. Power out. Phone out. Just have to wait. And hope
Sorry, y'all. The tug on Reddit posted photos and video of their instruments reading 135kts at Alcoa this morning. Emergency responders are posting photos to Facebook. There's a big pile of boats on the peninsula there by the marina. I think I see Rosie and the trawlers. It's hard to tell who else is there.
From the Facebook page
It's hard to tell if that big pavilion is gone or just obscured by rain. At least the boats piled up are probably pretty stable now. They refloated Satori from a beach. Maybe they will be able to put Rosie back in too. Those Westsail 28s are stout little boats.
My Dad lives in Victoria.
Haven't been able to talk to him since Thursday night. My daughter said he posted to FB late yesterday so guess that's a good sign. Tried calling this morning & went straight to voice mail.
Some of my relatives are also hunkered down in Victoria. They're on the north east side of town pretty far from the river. They are still sending me messages so their cell carrier still had service apparently, butthey have been without power since early in the morning. Say it's calmed back down to 70 mph winds !!!
We just meet another couple of boaters on the bus. During Sandy, they're boat got hit by a whole marina that came off its pilings and it pushed them and their mooring onto the land in Staten Island. They refloated it and it's anchored next to us in Mt Desert Is. They're heading to the Virgin Islands for the winter. I'm sure it took them some time to make repairs, but all is not lost, even for boats in piles.
Keeping my fingers crossed for all of y'all down there. "There but for the Grace..."
Crazy video from Rockport: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_k8K7A0yHI
That's House of Boats yard. that's where I do bottom work on Tehani
well heres video from the marina folks, its pretty bad, but it could be worse. you folks whos been there longer than i can analyze it better than me.
https://www.facebook.com/VictoriaAdvocate/videos/10159194771410134/
I don't have wifi so I just watched the first little bit. That looks pretty good to me, considering! It looks like the docks are there and most boats are in their slips. That's a lot more than can be said for a lot of other marinas after hurricanes.
Looking at the high res photo, Woody and I were wrong about the grounded boat being our friend's Westsail 28. I could see Rosie in its slip in that video. I don't recognize any of the grounded boats.
Keith and Rosie are fine, rascal rode it out there....
https://www.facebook.com/VictoriaAdvocate/videos/10159194833775134/
Just found another video of them walking the docks
my boat is sunk on the bottom of its slip. Sooooo im at the sick in my guts period, wondering what to do now....
my slips at the 1:18 time stamp
couldn't see charlies boat sorry CJ..
https://www.facebook.com/VictoriaAdvocate/videos/10159194817015134/
I can see her At least the bow with anchor on it-= floating as normal.
Terribly sorry Joe. Also, just found out Robin's boat is gone. Don't know if sunk or blown away.
I simply do not know what to do.
Sorry to see it. Back when huricane opal came through a lot of the guys here in panama city lost boats. Fema came through for most of the liveaboards with pretty big lump sum payments. I don't know if that is still the case but it would be worth to file a claim with them. good luck.
Jeez. I'm impressed the docks held up as well as they did. The old docks certainly wouldn't have made it. Still, it looks like a lot of the boats really took a beating in their slips. A lot of the boats that are afloat still had some pretty monstrous holes above the waterline. (Is that Lanny's boat with the stem smashed in?)
Sorry about your boat, Joe. It's a crappy roulette we all have to play from June to November. Are you going to start fresh?
We watched the video with Keith, thanks for posting. Somehow it doesn't surprise me he'd have stayed and then acted like it was no big deal. What a guy. I guess you don't get to live on a boat for 27 years without being vigilant.
Glad to hear Tehani is still floating. We'll await your update on her condition.
I'm curious to see what will become of the marina. They never required anyone to have liability insurance (at least not when we were there). The marina obviously suffered a lot of damage directly caused by boats and there's a lot of boats on the bottom. I wonder if any of the uninsured folks will take responsibility for disposing of their wrecks or or if they're just going to abandon them. Who foots the bill for that kind of thing?
Ralay.
im not sure what to do at this point, right now im just trying to figure out what to do about this. im really at a loss right now.
They asked me for liabity insurance proof. i carry 300,000 on Tehani. Have been asked in a good many other marinas too
Made it home. No electric of course. Lots if shingles torn away. Shop doors broken open. One tree down. Otherwise very litle damage. Will go to Marina tomorow.
Raylay. I think that is Lannys boat. Will know more tomorrow. Right now. Color me pooped!!!
Maybe they changed the insurance policy since we were there. We certainly never had any and didn't know many people who did. (We do keep liability insurance now.)
Glad to hear you had limited damage to your house and shop. Here's to hoping Tehani is relatively unscathed.
That is small stuff at home, Charlie, considering what happened nearby. I also hope Tehani did as well. The videos certainly showed some serious damage in many different places.
I guess you will assess the options for Cyric's boat while you are there. If it did sink, that is a big setback for him. I am surprised he had a problem if Tehani did not, but in that kind of weather, small things can make large differences.
I guess that you will have a lot of friends at the marina who will be needing assistance on a variety of issues to get their boats useable.
Norman
Charlie, Good to hear that your house damage was not too bad. The triangular form of an A-frame is an inherently strong one, with the structure bracing itself well. No doubt your construction and tie-downs to concrete piers also made a big difference. That is encouraging that you saw Tehani's bow floating normally in the video. I hope that visit tomorrow will bring more good news.
Joe, let me join Charlie, Rachel and others in expressing how sad it is to learn that your boat has sunk. It must be a shock that this has happened, and it will naturally take some time to process it all and, as Norman wrote, find out what your options are.
My Sailor's Heart goes out to you Joe; such sad news.
Hope everything's all right with Tehani, Charlie.
I hope everybody down there can get on their feet and start the recovery.
TrT
Joe I really hate to hear that your boat sank, I know how I feel about having problems with my boat I can imagine how it would feel like if it sank.
Sorry to hear about your boat. Boats & houses can be replaced, people can't. Seen some pictures from down there. Boats are stacked up the way we stack cordwood up here. Pretty bad to say the least.
I've had a couple of fragmented messages from my Dad yesterday. Says their all right, no power, cooking on the grille, that kind of stuff.
Guys thanks for the support, im coming to grips with the fact, and also realize ppl have lost alot more than me. it will be years befor some of this mess is repaired im sure.
Just checked Tehani from parking lot. Can't get on docks
She broke a bow line but is riding against two huge fenders. Also has a broken spreader. So gonna need some work. But basically ok
Will look over yours as soon as I am allowed on dock. Woried about looters ya know
Glad to hear it. If you fixed her after her dismasting, I'm sure you've got the skill to handle a spreader. Bet you're happy to have spent the money for jumbo fenders an o have taken the time to double your lines and strip your boat. There were a lot of boats in that video that still had awnings up, inflatables out, hardly any fenders, etc. But maybe those folks had houses, kids, pets, elders or other more important things they needed to worry about before evacuation.
Glad everyone here is ok, even if some boats didn't fair out so well...
Boats are things...
That said, what a sickening feeling seeing your boat down.
Hope things work out ok in the end for ya Joe.
I'm sure you feel very overwhelmed....
Keep us posted with your plans as things unfold.
Heart goes out to ya.....
Joe, It was good to chat with you last night and learn that you are looking forward to moving ahead with your plans to cruise, despite this setback.
Grog to you! :)
Finally was able to get aboard Tehani. All in all much better than I expected. Four broken doc k lines but some one fixed one of them. Kept her off the dock
Broken spreader. One turnbuckle missing center. Toe rail missing a section. Genoa track was on that section. One stanchion base destroyed. Stanchion un harmed. One fender gone with the wind
All in all pretty minor considering that directly across dock from me 7 boats are sunk. Including Cyric's. Joe-Just the mast sticking up but she did a number on the dock before she went!!
Nine or ten boats sunk and four or five washed ashore. i came out very fortunately. Sad to see the others though. Some nice boats went down
Glad to hear it CJ. Did it give you any insight to share on what you would or wouldn't do to prepare for another storm?
Lol. Triple up the lines. Two of the ones that broke were doubled. Otherwise can't think of anything. I feel as if I did everything I could
After some thought decided to edit to add this
All of the lines that broke just broke. Not due to chafeor anything else. i suspect they got heavily shock loaded in the waves on top of the seven foot storm surge. Some sort of shock absorber cushioning in each line would have help immensely. i've seen several decent ideas and will try some out. Hopefully they won't be needed in a storm like this one again
Joe -
Man I absolutely hate to hear that about your boat. :/
Tell you what, though - if you can borrow Tehani/CJ's trailer, come pick up Katie Marie. She needs putting back together, but all the pieces are there except for an outboard motor. I'd love for her to have a "home" with someone that'll take her cruising, and you need a boat.
Sounds like a match to me. 8)
First off. Thank You ALL for the Thoughts and Support
At this point i don't know what i will do moving forward. There is still the issue of dealing with my sunken boat. Which i have no clue as to what will take place with, since so many boat at my marina are sunk or severely damaged, not to mention so many others at other facilities along the coast, it may be a long time before some kind resolution takes place.
Also CapnK, i will take your offer to heart as well.
Joe
Wow, that was one heck of a storm! My empathy for all who got hurt, materially, mentally and/or physically.
Despite all I am pleased to hear that sailfarers did quite well....considering.
Life and health always come first.
Reading this thread has been heart breaking..... So many lost so much. It's worth noting however that the majority of boat owners are "absentee" boat owners, who's boats sit in a slip year after year deteriorating, and seldom put to sea. Owners who have no real commitment to their boats and to cruising in general. It's impossible to feel any areal sympathy for those........How many of the owners of those boats stacked up on the beaches took any active measures to protect their boats, and how many just let nature take it's course, assuming insurance would make it good, or simply not caring?
One lesson from this would seem to be that a crowded harbor / marina is NOT a healthy place to ride out a hurricane. If you are lucky enough that your boat stays tied up and isn't driven ashore, there is a good chance another boat will crash into it and do major damage. Do you want your boat in a marine through a storm surrounded by neglected boats??? I wonder how many people got the anchor and fled south to Mexico using the CCW winds to get out of the path. Most folks in the area had far more important things to worry about than their boat..... Family, homes, vehicles, survival itself. As one who plans to live aboard in the near future, strategies for cyclonic storm survival, of both myself an my boat are important "postmortem" considerations. The Monday Night Quarterback syndrome.
The water damage to a sunken boat would be a huge project to reverse, not to mention repairing holes. These are all considerations that prey on my mind as I look to the future. Disaster strikes with or without warning.
I fled in the face of a fire driven by 80 mph winds a number of years ago...... I grabbed what was valuable & portable, and fled to town....... expecting to return to ashes. The next morning I spoke to fire fighters who said that the last thing they saw was the tiny town I live in (5 people) in flames from a mile away at the highway before they too fled. I was prepared to lose all.... or at least steeled to it. My brokerage account was sufficient to rebuild, but I had no insurance on anything. God was on my side that day........ the fire split and went on both sides of town, and rejoined to the east of town. I lost nothing but the opportunity to rebuild my life from ashes. Fire, flood, earthquake, hurricane, I've friends who have survived all of it.
When the mountain collapsed on a campground burying dozens of people, friends of mine had been partying in town, and the wives insisted in staying at a motel.. else they too would have died. Life is a veritable "poop shoot", but we do have some options.
In the winter of '78, I was with a group of guys who were far back in the mountains, and the driver ran off the road. I'd brought an arctic class down bag, and two of us had brought chain saws, and an axe. I'd thrown in two come alongs and some chain. We spent the night out at -35F in front of a fire, taking turns sleeping in the pickup in the bag. Next morning we pulled the pickup with a dead battery about 1/4 mile up hill one bite at a time with a come along, the work of many hours, while warming the battery by the fire, and managed to get it roll started. We all made it out alive, needless to say.... 15 miles to the nearest paved road, and 40 miles to town. At 62, I'm the only survivor of that group of three foolish boys.
I sincerely hope that the only tales I ever have to tell of hurricanes are of fleeing them!!!
H.W.
Even a relatively empty marina can be 'the wrong place', compared to the relative calm of a good hurricane hole. Last year in H Matthew, with perhaps only 100 yards of fetch coming into the marina from the particular wind directions (across the river first from E then from W, as we had a 180 switch when the eye passed overhead), life pretty much sucked.
We had 70+ kts sustained at the very least - over 100 kts was recorded in the immediate area before the NOAA anemometer blew down - and that made for 1-2' waves in that little space. Being tied into the system of docks and pilings/dolphins, you pray and pray that it all holds together, because if the weather finds that weakness to start breaking it up, then your boat is going to go with it.
This is worrisome at best in a bad, strong summer thunderstorm, with 40kt winds that maybe lasts an hour start to finish, but for the 12-24 hours of much stronger hurricane winds, it really, REALLY sucks.
Though I knew objectively it was very unlikely that the marina structure would fall apart given the circumstances (and that was why I stayed), it was a mental overhead that I just haven't felt when anchored out and tied off to trees or whatever, upriver and alone.
This year, and from now on, anything over TS or maybe Cat1, depending on proximity, I am leaving the docks behind to fend for themselves. I may even be putting that policy into effect as early as this week, depending on what Irma does...
(Go out to sea, Irma, go out to the deep blue sea...)
Quote from: maxiSwede on September 04, 2017, 02:34:58 PM
Wow, that was one heck of a storm! My empathy for all who got hurt, materially, mentally and/or physically.
Despite all I am pleased to hear that sailfarers did quite well....considering.
Life and health always come first.
One of us. Cyric. Lost his boat. He just put a totally rebulit diesel back in about 6 weeks ago. Never had the chance to joist a sail since he bought it
Sailing offshore to Mexico or anywhere else for that matter is a pretty huge gamble. The picture below is of a forecast for Tropical Storm Debbie which formed in June of 2012 when Woody and I were bringing Mona home to Texas from Florida. We were somewhere offshore near NOLA at the time, because it was originally forecast to make landfall near us in Pensacola. We sailed offshore towards Lousiana, only to have the hurricane warnings move in front of us. This storm actually made landfall in the Big Bend of FL. It was a pretty nerve wracking couple of days and drove home the idea that the predictions can be very uncertain, especially during the time you'd need to leave in order to have time to get away.
I also thought about anchoring vs staying at a marina once I saw all the boats in Port Lavaca. Thankfully, the worst wind we've seen was only 55-65kts, gusting higher for 2-3 days during an exceptionally bad cold front. We didn't have any damage at anchor. We swung and pitched all over, but there was nothing to hit. We freshened the nip of the anchor rode frequently and held on tight. Boaters from the marinas seemed to have a much rougher time as the marinas flooded and boats smashed each other and rode up on the docks. Unfortunately, there just aren't many anchorages let alone hurricane holes in Texas. I looked at our chart of Matagorda Bay again to think of where we could have hid Mona, but there's nowhere to go. I suppose we could have covered her with tires and tried to squeeze into Alcoa or the Harbor of Refuge. But I'm not sure tying up with a bunch of shrimp boats and tows and steel barges is any better than the marina. As much as I like the people in Port Lavaca, I don't think I'd make it my home port again. If I were to live aboard down south again, I'd need a Travellift or a darn good hidey hole within a day's travel.
There are a few very good spots, but it takes a few days to get to them. There are abandoned canals on North Padre just off the Padre Island Yacht club, with deep water and high banks. Many go up the Florida Barge Canal, anchor and tire to trees. Also the same up the Colorado River.
But you re right- they are few. Where you two were moored, is now occupied by a sunken A30 sadly
Yeah, that's the rub. If it's somewhere that takes a couple days to get to, you wind up spending your precious prep time traveling and you've got to worry about bridge closures, floodgate closures, etc. as the time draws nigh. Or you might get to your spot and find it already full of a spiderweb of local boats. Or you might find the hurricane track has been adjusted to hit where you moved to instead of where you were. Tricky business.
Bottom line- you do the best you can, with the time you have. And then hope.
There have been several people over the years who have sailed off onto the fringes of hurricanes to "play"......... I use the term "play" with my tongue firmly embedded in cheek. Some have written about the experience........ some have not lived to tell the tale. The Bounty (reproduction) was lost with all hands. In the open ocean it is possible with a fairly fast boat (multihull) to stay on the fringe, preferably on the "safe quadrant", which in Harvey was to the southwest where the motion of the storm subtracts a few KTS from the CCW winds. When caught in the vicinity of an approaching tropical storm far from land, such as in the South Pacific, or Mid Atlantic, etc, this is a viable tactic........ the ONLY one available. A multihull or a very large monohull, can have sufficient speed to at least theoretically "get out of the way" knowing the storm track, and location of the center......... The only survival tactic available.
With a storm like Harvey, the limited time to move out of the way of the storm's potential path makes sailing out of it's path chancy. The best strategy would be to leave your boat in Panama during the hurricane season, or some other relatively safe location..... Cruise the Caribbean, sail south, fly home...... Texas really is a fairly safe location when you look at past hurricane tracks, as most storms curve northward as they approach the continent. Anybody can be a "Monday night quarterback", and everybody should be. It's the only way to be able to make the right choices next time. The real challenge being to react while there is still time. And of course for most folks the boat is NOT the priority.... the house and family are. You are going to be out there plywooding your windows, throwing anchors into the ground and straps over your roof, laying in water and generator fuel & cooking propane if you are going to sit it out, or making an evac plan if you are going to higher ground. Unless you are a live aboard, the boat is at the bottom of the list....... or should be.
Quote from: Owly055 on September 05, 2017, 12:58:34 PM
There have been several people over the years who have sailed off onto the fringes of hurricanes to "play"......... I use the term "play" with my tongue firmly embedded in cheek. Some have written about the experience........ some have not lived to tell the tale. The Bounty (reproduction) was lost with all hands. In the open ocean it is possible with a fairly fast boat (multihull) to stay on the fringe, preferably on the "safe quadrant", which in Harvey was to the southwest where the motion of the storm subtracts a few KTS from the CCW winds. When caught in the vicinity of an approaching tropical storm far from land, such as in the South Pacific, or Mid Atlantic, etc, this is a viable tactic........ the ONLY one available. A multihull or a very large monohull, can have sufficient speed to at least theoretically "get out of the way" knowing the storm track, and location of the center......... The only survival tactic available.
With a storm like Harvey, the limited time to move out of the way of the storm's potential path makes sailing out of it's path chancy. The best strategy would be to leave your boat in Panama during the hurricane season, or some other relatively safe location..... Cruise the Caribbean, sail south, fly home...... Texas really is a fairly safe location when you look at past hurricane tracks, as most storms curve northward as they approach the continent. Anybody can be a "Monday night quarterback", and everybody should be. It's the only way to be able to make the right choices next time. The real challenge being to react while there is still time. And of course for most folks the boat is NOT the priority.... the house and family are. You are going to be out there plywooding your windows, throwing anchors into the ground and straps over your roof, laying in water and generator fuel & cooking propane if you are going to sit it out, or making an evac plan if you are going to higher ground. Unless you are a live aboard, the boat is at the bottom of the list....... or should be.
As far as leaving/staying in Panama, it's a gamble in itself. We had quite a number of "buddy boats" a few years ago that got hit by lightning in Panama, which made us change plan and cross the Gulf of Panama to Ecuador. iIrC 4 out of a dozen boats got hit. All electronics fried, and some more...
That storm track graphic shows the Gulf strangely free of hurricanes. Texas has been hit by 59 from 1851-2004, including 19 that were at least Category 3. LA, AL, MS and the West coast of FL account for another 177 strikes or 236 total. The East coast of FL up to the NC/VA border had 149 over that period. It's all pretty scary down there come August and September.
Cyric, first of all I am very sorry about your boat. I am putting so much work into mine that I think I can imagine what it would feel like, but I probably can't.
However I am ignorant about the conditions on your side of the water so I may be way off but I saw several boats on the videos posted that were afloat but severely smashed both bow and stern. I am thinking that a hole below the waterline early on may have saved your boat from severe structural damage? Maybe your boat is in pretty good shape, although sunk? What is the reason for not getting a crane and lifting her as soon as possible to asses if she is salvageable? I take it that you have to get her out of the marina at your expense any how?
Quote from: SeaHusky on September 06, 2017, 04:03:14 PM
Cyric, first of all I am very sorry about your boat. I am putting so much work into mine that I think I can imagine what it would feel like, but I probably can't.
However I am ignorant about the conditions on your side of the water so I may be way off but I saw several boats on the videos posted that were afloat but severely smashed both bow and stern. I am thinking that a hole below the waterline early on may have saved your boat from severe structural damage? Maybe your boat is in pretty good shape, although sunk? What is the reason for not getting a crane and lifting her as soon as possible to asses if she is salvageable? I take it that you have to get her out of the marina at your expense any how?
You make "refloating" sound like a simple proposition........ it's anything but simple. Finding suitable lift points, to get it off the bottom (probably chain plates), then relieving the suction of the mud that has accumulated, by blasting air beneath it, so you don't simply rip the boat apart, then lifting it enough to get straps under. Once at the surface the water must be pumped out, and ultimately you have to do something with it.... It likely can't be patched with some sort of quick simple patch so that it can be refloated, and even if it is refloated, it will have to be towed to a place where it can be taken out. The crane will probably have to be on a barge, and even then you must find such equipment, and people with the know how to do the job. Then you have the problem of a bay full of wreckage to navigate through, and the potential liability of damage to dozens of sunken yachts in perfect condition before the barge hit them. Air bags and pumps of course are the way to raise sunken yachts in that situation, not cranes.... at least until there is a generally accepted "process". Imagine hundreds of people descending on the area, all demanding that their yacht be raised. This boat inevitably is part of a larger picture..... a tangle that will have to be unraveled, and nobody is going to be happy. Everybody is pretty much in the same boat so to speak.
H.W.
I think Owly is right about it being a big undertaking.
The magnitude of the ordeal depends a lot on why the boat went down. I've seen boats refloated in a few hours if they sank for small reasons (hose cracked, pressure water left running, etc). But what do you do with a bunch of boats that sank because they (presumably) have big holes knocked in them? You can hire divers to float them with bags, but what then? There's no boatyard nearby. There's less than a foot of tide, so you can't let them dry out to inspect or make repairs. Do you pay to tow it to another town in another bay with a Travellift and a yard or have a crane lift it onto a trailer and truck it somewhere?? I really don't know the answer, but I'm curious. I assume the alternative would be to drag them ashore with whatever heavy equipment is available and saw them up.
And in this case, the nearest haul out facility is 60 miles away, and was devastated by the same storm. So at this point no one really has a clue as to what will happen
I'm sorry to hear that!
I assumed that the boats were moored close to dry land or a dock or if it is a larger marina with floating docks, mooring balls and such there would be equipment for maintenance such as moving large anchor blocks and stuff available. Since this is a reoccurring problem one might assume that there would be a plan to handle it.
I split this post off into a new thread on Hurricane Irma (http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=4902.0)....
Quote from: Owly055 on September 07, 2017, 02:26:07 PM
Perhaps it's time to focus on Irma, and what people in South Florida are doing to protect their boats. It's always a good idea to have a plan. By the way Saint Irma is the patron saint of women who've been abused or molested. Hermina Grivot , also known as Irma Grivot, Saint Irma or Saint Hermina, born in 1866 in France, beheaded in 1900 in China. I predict that she will pass right over Mar a Lago at full strength and just sit there for a few days ;-) If I was anywhere in the vicinity, I'd be for making an escape while I could!! This is said to be the most wrathful hurricane ever recorded in the Atlantic, with winds approaching 200 mph.
H.W.
My heart goes out to all affected by Harvey. I fear that the suffering you have endured is likely to be made worse by the diversoin of relief assets to Irma.... I also suspect that in the coming days there will be a risk of feeling forgotten....
May your recovery be swift... both of broken boats and of broken hearts.
Quote from: CapnK on September 03, 2017, 11:09:08 AM
Joe -
Man I absolutely hate to hear that about your boat. :/
Tell you what, though - if you can borrow Tehani/CJ's trailer, come pick up Katie Marie. She needs putting back together, but all the pieces are there except for an outboard motor. I'd love for her to have a "home" with someone that'll take her cruising, and you need a boat.
Sounds like a match to me. 8)
What an amazingly kind offer.
Re: refloating...
Among the many advantages of smaller craft is that recovery efforts are more manageable.... I have been a part of refloating boats. Lift bags and divers can be a DIY project. The initial lift can often be accomplished by placing floatiation inside the cabin... getting the hull off the bottom and making placement of bags on the outside of the hull more easy.
Diving the boat to look at the damage can give you an idea of what holes need to be plugged.... who knows.... with the rain you got, it could actually have been something like plugged cockpit drains or a hatch blown open....
Admittedly I did it in an intact marina, where I was able to get the boat into shallow water for the pumping and righting.... this may simply not be possible in the context of the destruction.... and the marina may forbid it for liability or fears of looting or further damage to other boats....
Not suggesting it is easy, or even feasible... only that it has been done, and might be an option to look into.
I was thinking much along the same lines............. What could be purchased easily and cheaply for flotation bags. Actual lift bags are not exactly laying about everywhere. What sort of cheap inflatable things from Walmart or some other junk store could be packed inside, and inflated? After the hurricane resources of all kinds are probably very depleted. Divers are probably in short supply. A friend with a Hooka might be a friend indeed. It's the sort of undertaking that requires total commitment and a willingness to spend huge amounts of time, and the ability to overcome obstacles of all kinds............and they will be endless. One has to find ways to work around obstacles, rather than take them on frontally. Efforts by others will be consuming resources, but lending a hand to others in similar straits can pay dividends. There are dozens if not hundreds of others facing similar crisis, and often working together to help each other benefits everybody. Ideas and innovations need to be shared. Decent people help each other out, and reciprocate when you lend a hand. This kind of crisis quickly sorts out the decent people from those who are self centered. It brings out the very best AND the very worst in people. One should never forget which people were which. It reveals a person's true character.
H.W.
Quote from: s/v Faith on September 07, 2017, 03:55:45 PM
Re: refloating...
Among the many advantages of smaller craft is that recovery efforts are more manageable.... I have been a part of refloating boats. Lift bags and divers can be a DIY project. The initial lift can often be accomplished by placing floatiation inside the cabin... getting the hull off the bottom and making placement of bags on the outside of the hull more easy.
Diving the boat to look at the damage can give you an idea of what holes need to be plugged.... who knows.... with the rain you got, it could actually have been something like plugged cockpit drains or a hatch blown open....
Admittedly I did it in an intact marina, where I was able to get the boat into shallow water for the pumping and righting.... this may simply not be possible in the context of the destruction.... and the marina may forbid it for liability or fears of looting or further damage to other boats....
Not suggesting it is easy, or even feasible... only that it has been done, and might be an option to look into.
One of the huge problems in this sort of thing is- there well may be 200 sunk boats along the near coast, and many up on shore. Facilities are extremely limited, so it's gonna take, probably, months to get it all taken care off.
Will be hauling a friends boat in the morning- it's trailerable and afloat.. But had to convince authorities it was ok to use ramp. Has been blocked since storm.. They don't want lookie-loos OR Looters there.
TWO haul out facilities in 100 miles of coast, and both damaged. The Texas coast is very sparsely populated
Tough situation
Browsing online it looks like you can buy and rent lift bags. I think I've also seen self-inflating bags marketed as post-collision damage control. I'm sure they're expensive, though, and there might be cheaper options.
For non-Texans, it's worth noting that Texas has chocolate milk for saltwater. I lived at that marina for 2 years and never saw our keel let alone the bottom. Our Aleutka drew 2'9" and we never saw the (bilge) keels until we got to FL. Mona's prop is only about a foot or so under the water, but I couldn't see it without pulling my mask right up to the blades. Inspecting hulls or planting bags in cabins, might not be a very amateur-friendly activity. You'd probably be feeling for holes as much as looking and it would be really easy to get tangled up or disoriented in the mess of rigging and boats and lines down there, especially trailing a hookah line. It's probably a job best assigned to trained divers (of course some folks are trained divers or have friends who are).
And what CJ said is the real rub. NLM is just two docks built with Grant money next to a public park and some city offices in a town of about 12,000 people. There's none of the marine services you'd find in a more populated place or more popular cruising ground. If you floated your boat, you'd have to tow it 100 miles up the ICW through heavy tow traffic or pay a crane to come from another city to lift your boat onto a trailer and truck it down the highway or to some farmer's field. The city probably isn't going to let anyone put a boat on stands in the park or their parking lot and grind away.
I know it probably seems kind of crazy that it should be this difficult or that there are so few services, but I think it's reflected in the price of the marina. It was $4/ft when we were there, which is half of the next cheapest marina we've ever stayed at. So that's the gamble. You can store your boat for half the price of everyone else, but you accept that you'll have few options in a big hurricane. If you have a $5,000-10,000 boat and are saving $1,000 or more a year, the off of coming out ahead are probably still in your favor. I assume CJ has saved plenty over the years to cover his repairs.
Course it still really sucks if you just put a boat with a new engine in there just in time for the Big One to sink it. Sorry, Cyric.
I appreciate the perspective, I have never cruised Texas... sounds like it is indeed quite a challenge to get water access.
*** thought presented are not intended as realistic for Joes boat, but in hopes it might trigger ideas ***
As for the question of lift bags, 20" tractor trailer inner tubes are inexpensive and pretty available. When Kurt was doing his calculations on building flotation foam into Katie Marie he came up with some relatively modest volume figures of what it would take to keep er afloat if holed.
Truck tubes have a few advantages, they are sturdy and the inflation connections are slow but readily available. Also, with their being round with a hole in the center have fairly obvious attachment options.... a line taken through a pair and stretched under the hull an a couple of places cloud "sling" a boat fairly effectively. Filling the bags on either side slowly, alternting little by little could provide a reasonably controllable lift
I hear the water clarity is a challenge, it was in my own experiences also. Fortunately you are looking for larger holes so the brail method works pretty well.
We used divie tanks with inflation chucks on the lp line, but a gas compressor would work too (possibly on shore with cheap HF air lines connected together to give the length....
So sorry for the loss, hope some option that works becomes available soonest.
Quote from: s/v Faith on September 07, 2017, 03:25:00 PM
Quote from: CapnK on September 03, 2017, 11:09:08 AM
Joe -
Man I absolutely hate to hear that about your boat. :/
Tell you what, though - if you can borrow Tehani/CJ's trailer, come pick up Katie Marie. She needs putting back together, but all the pieces are there except for an outboard motor. I'd love for her to have a "home" with someone that'll take her cruising, and you need a boat.
Sounds like a match to me. 8)
What an amazingly kind offer.
+ one!