The Short List for Bigger Boat Itis

[Captain Smollett]

Well, it happens to us all, I suppose.  I do love our little trailerable 18 ft-er and have no plans to sell her, but with a family of four, anything beyond basic weekending is just not practical (though roomy for an 18 ft-er, it is still an 18 ft-er).

So, I've been contemplating "what would *I* like to have in a 25-30 footer that would be a good cruising boat for the family."  My criteria are: classic lines (long overhangs, rounded stem), full keel, on the heavy side for size, often considered to be 'overbuilt,' as well as reasonable (if tight) accomodations for 2 adults and 2 children.  I'm currently planning this around 1 week to 3 month cruises, mostly along the coast with longer distances to follow.  These cruises will be in support of the homeschooling of our children.

Here's my short list, and in no small part influenced by the comments, attitudes and knowledge on this site (disclaimer: if your boat does not appear on this list, it is not because I don't like her or think her beautiful....I'm just trying to think about my requirements and tastes -- I've seen a LOT of boats that I really like that are not on this list), in no particular order:

Pearson Ariel
Pearson Triton  (saw an ad for one for $4500 here on the East Coast...oh man)
Columbia 29
Bristol 27

I won't be looking for a least a year or two, but I will be keeping my and ears open.

Thanks, ya'll, you've provided some great input and places to start for my 'search.'

[Frank]

All fine boats !! With 2 kids ,The Triton would serve you well.A BIG Vberth,seperate head (makes things WAY simpler than v-berth fillers)shallow draft and a proven offshore record......beautiful to boot !

[EdD]

As I get closer to retirement and closer to coastal and offshore cruising I will be looking for a boat similar to what Captain Smollett is looking for. 

In my current situation a larger boat requires either (1) moving to the coast, (2) commuting to the coast, or (3) trailering to the coast.   I wouldn't mind moving or a short commute but I'm tired of trailering and setting up bigger boats. 

I will be following this thread with interest.  I know there are lots of folks out there with great insight in this area. 

My big boat days are still a couple of years away, so for now I'm still looking for a good deal on a used Suncat 17. 

EdD

[Oldrig]

Great list of boats. You might also consider the Cape Dory 27 or 28. I've got a 25D, which I love, but if I had kids, I'd definitely move up to one of these.

Best of luck in your search.

--Joe

[Captain Smollett]

Great list of boats. You might also consider the Cape Dory 27 or 28.

Funny you should mention the Cape Dory's.  I do like 'em, and they ARE on my 'secondary list.'  That means if the right deal came along at the right time, I probably would not pass it up! 

I got to admit, though, I'm really falling in love with the Triton.  There are several 'out there' for sale at an 'affordable' prices, but we are not ready to jump into a new (to us) boat purchase just yet.

The next "big step' is to get my wife to get on a Triton.  She's seen an Ariel up close, and mentioned this evening wanting to see one (Triton) up close, too.  You can only tell so much from pics.

[CapnK]

I'll put a fiver on a bet that the Alberg 30 will be on that list, too, once you read this and/or check them out...

[Captain Smollett]

Alberg 30: beautiful, but the ones I've seen for sale are price-ey.

It seems that the 30 footer line is about where boats get outfitted with 'stuff' (to put it nicely) that I don't want on board, and certainly don't want to pay for, such as air conditioning, powered refrigeration, etc.  Also, though my own experience is rather limited with boats in this LOA range, I've been told that 30 feet is about the limit of what one can  'manhandle' alongside (pulling on docklines, etc). 

One HUGE advantage I see with a Triton is that I *could* trailer it myself with a heavy duty tow vehicle (Dodge 3500 dually, eg);    with 8' 9" beam, the 30 would require permits, no?

Again, if the right deal came along at the right time, it would NOT be passed!!   

[AdriftAtSea]

Yes, most states have 8' 6" as the limit for non-wideload trailers, although some states are 9' and a few are 8'...

What boat you really get may depend on where you want to be sailing... The Caribbean is better suited to shallower draft boats, where the Pacific Northwest is not so picky about draft. 

The other thing is that the ground tackle and sails of boats over 30' start to get more than a single person can really manage without assistance or powered equipment.

[Captain Smollett]

What boat you really get may depend on where you want to be sailing... The Caribbean is better suited to shallower draft boats, where the Pacific Northwest is not so picky about draft. 

Where do I WANT to be sailing?  All Over.   

While the list is certainly fluid right now, so far all the boats that I am considering draw in the 4 ft range.  There is a good bet that this next boat purchase (some time out, btw) will be my permanent boat.

You know what's sad?  I realized yesterday that I could sell my 18 ft-er and have almost enough money for the initial purchase of a Triton.  There's actually a Rhodes Meridian for sale for less than I could get for my little boat (haven't seen it, but it probably needs a lot of work).  I don't really want to give up my trailerable right now, being as we are landlocked, but if it comes to that ...

[CharlieJ]

Actually that Meridian should be in "good to go " shape. A guy named Ric did a LOT of work on it, then had to sell. He sold for MUCH less than is being asked now by the way.

Oh- and that's hull # 9, built right before Tehani, which is hull # 10.

[K3v1n]

Well I know I just purchased my Com-Pac 19 but I can see my next boat being the Com-Pac 25 or something comparable. It has standing head room which would be a major feature of the next boat, especially if you are spending a lot more time aboard.

 We can dream can't we?! 

-Kevin

[AdriftAtSea]

I doubt I'll get bigger boat-itis any time soon...since I'm on a 28' to begin with.

[Pixie Dust]

Capt Smollet made mention of seeking out people and information regarding cruising with children.  While in Miami at the boat show, Pam Walls spoke on several topics and I found her fascinating.  Her family (with kids) did a 7 yr circumnavigation in which she was writing a book about.  The name of her boat is Kandarik and she has written several articles that I have seen here and there.  She still works at West Marine in Ft. Lauderdale and is very approachable.  She loves to help others and talk sailing.  She gave us her email address and contact info.  I bet if you contact her, you will have a great conversation on this topic.  Her email address is pamw@westmarine.com   or 954-527-5540.   Maybe her book is even complete.   This lady is infectious.  My guess John is that your wife would enjoy chatting with her. 

[Captain Smollett]

Thanks, I will contact her if for no other end than to find out when the book will be available.  I am now reading Into the Light by the Martins, as also recommended here on SailFar.   

[Joe Pyrat]

I've got a Triton and I couldn't be happier with her.  She's built like a tank, parts are inexpensive, she sails well (I always get a kick out of the surprise the racers have at her speed), her capsize screening rating is very good and she is easily singlehanded. 

Space-wise she is a little tight for more than two people, but I'm getting a full cockpit cover made which will almost double the enclosed space.  The cockpit is fitted with a shower and I figure this is where I'll be spending most of my nights once I get to the tropics.  I redid the v-berth into a double, bur with children the stock configuration should work quite well, although I would suspect they will find cockpit camping more fun.

I recently hauled her from New Mexico to Maine on a home built trailer (two car hauler modified with a support for the Triton).  Used an old Ford F600 to pull her, but any of the new larger diesel pickups should do the job and probably much better than the F600 did (55 MPH gets a littel old after a couple of days  )

If you decide to go with a Triton, let me know.  I can put you in  touch with a bunch of Triton people on the East Coast who can help you with all sorts of projects and information.

Good hunting,

[Frank]

Joe Joe Joe.....you are obviously a man of utmost class and good taste!! I think the Triton,properly outfitted and upgraded, represents thee finest all around sailing vessel under 30ft.....and a lot finer than many over 30ft to boot. Their combination of seakeeping,shallow draft,sailing ability,simplicity and dam fine classic looks are hard to beat!! Good for you

[oded kishony]

The cockpit cover sounds like a really great solution. I've read that the Triton cn be pretty tender-is this what you've found? I've been on boats that seem to have a kind of lurching motion when first pressed by the wind, how does the Triton react to a fresh beam breeze?

oded kishony

[Joe Pyrat]

Thanks Frank, you are a scholar and a gentleman.     When I saw my first Triton (the one I now own, BTW) it was love at first sight.

oded kishony, the east coast Triton's (Pearson) react slightly differently than the west coast (Aeromarine) boats.  The EC boats are initially tender, but once on heel are quite stable.  The WC boats seem to be a bit more stable initially, partially due to their smaller rigs.  I have owned both, and either would make a good cruising boat.  Overall, I prefer the EC version, even though you give up the solid glass deck, but that's just personal preference.  CSF=1.65  I have never noticed the lurching you mentioned, she heels over and stays put.

I'm really looking forward to the cockpit cover.  Spouse gets the down below and I get the cockpit.   

[oded kishony]

> I have never noticed the lurching you mentioned, she heels over and stays put.<

Oh I wasn't referring to a Triton lurching. I was on a friend's boat some years ago-I don't even remember what kind of boat- but it had a very unpleasant way of heeling. The boat would just suddenly lurch with every puff of wind but would then stabilize. When a boat is described as 'tender' does that also describe how abruptly she heels? What factor determines the speed at which a boat initially heels? Does this initial heeling indicate ultimate stability?

oded kishony

[Captain Smollett]

> When a boat is described as 'tender' does that also describe how abruptly she heels? What factor determines the speed at which a boat initially heels?

"Tender" refers to "how easily" not "how fast."  That is, a boat that is tender will roll with small torques.  The speed of heeling would be related to a combination of tenderness and windspeed.  It's a torque problem, where the net torque is torque (wind on sails) - torque (self righting of boat) and the "speed" at which the boat rolls is related to angular acceleration which is given by the torque divided by the moment of inertia of the boat (and rig).

So, I guess all else being "equal" (windspeed, center of gravity, moment of inertia, etc), a tender boat would heel more 'quickly' than a stiff one.  But, all the things that effect tenderness are those things that preclude such a comparison - those boats would not be equal.

Does this initial heeling indicate ultimate stability?

No, not generally.  The stability curve of a boat can be very complicated depending on where the center of gravity is located, the shape of the hull, total mass, etc.  Initial tenderness is quite common on rounded bilge boats, but with properly designed ballast, they can be quite 'stiff' at larger angles of heel.

I think that most of the 'good' ultimately stable boats stiffen up at 10-15 degrees.  My little boat is like that.  Very tender up to about 10 degrees or so.  Even though she is very tippy at the dock, she can handle 15-18 kts of wind or so with full main and working jib without washing the windows.  That's not too bad for a boat with only 1350 lb displacement.