Well, it happens to us all, I suppose. I do love our little trailerable 18 ft-er and have no plans to sell her, but with a family of four, anything beyond basic weekending is just not practical (though roomy for an 18 ft-er, it is still an 18 ft-er).
So, I've been contemplating "what would *I* like to have in a 25-30 footer that would be a good cruising boat for the family." My criteria are: classic lines (long overhangs, rounded stem), full keel, on the heavy side for size, often considered to be 'overbuilt,' as well as reasonable (if tight) accomodations for 2 adults and 2 children. I'm currently planning this around 1 week to 3 month cruises, mostly along the coast with longer distances to follow. These cruises will be in support of the homeschooling of our children.
Here's my short list, and in no small part influenced by the comments, attitudes and knowledge on this site (disclaimer: if your boat does not appear on this list, it is not because I don't like her or think her beautiful....I'm just trying to think about my requirements and tastes -- I've seen a LOT of boats that I really like that are not on this list), in no particular order:
Pearson Ariel
Pearson Triton (saw an ad for one for $4500 here on the East Coast...oh man)
Columbia 29
Bristol 27
I won't be looking for a least a year or two, but I will be keeping my and ears open.
Thanks, ya'll, you've provided some great input and places to start for my 'search.'
All fine boats !! With 2 kids ,The Triton would serve you well.A BIG Vberth,seperate head (makes things WAY simpler than v-berth fillers)shallow draft and a proven offshore record......beautiful to boot !
As I get closer to retirement and closer to coastal and offshore cruising I will be looking for a boat similar to what Captain Smollett is looking for.
In my current situation a larger boat requires either (1) moving to the coast, (2) commuting to the coast, or (3) trailering to the coast. I wouldn't mind moving or a short commute but I'm tired of trailering and setting up bigger boats.
I will be following this thread with interest. I know there are lots of folks out there with great insight in this area.
My big boat days are still a couple of years away, so for now I'm still looking for a good deal on a used Suncat 17.
EdD
Great list of boats. You might also consider the Cape Dory 27 or 28. I've got a 25D, which I love, but if I had kids, I'd definitely move up to one of these.
Best of luck in your search.
--Joe
Quote from: Oldrig on July 23, 2006, 06:38:28 PM
Great list of boats. You might also consider the Cape Dory 27 or 28.
Funny you should mention the Cape Dory's. I do like 'em, and they ARE on my 'secondary list.' That means if the right deal came along at the right time, I probably would not pass it up! :)
I got to admit, though, I'm really falling in love with the Triton. There are several 'out there' for sale at an 'affordable' prices, but we are not ready to jump into a new (to us) boat purchase just yet.
The next "big step' is to get my wife to get on a Triton. She's seen an Ariel up close, and mentioned this evening wanting to see one (Triton) up close, too. You can only tell so much from pics.
I'll put a fiver on a bet that the Alberg 30 will be on that list, too, once you read this and/or check them out... :)
Alberg 30: beautiful, but the ones I've seen for sale are price-ey.
It seems that the 30 footer line is about where boats get outfitted with 'stuff' (to put it nicely) that I don't want on board, and certainly don't want to pay for, such as air conditioning, powered refrigeration, etc. Also, though my own experience is rather limited with boats in this LOA range, I've been told that 30 feet is about the limit of what one can 'manhandle' alongside (pulling on docklines, etc).
One HUGE advantage I see with a Triton is that I *could* trailer it myself with a heavy duty tow vehicle (Dodge 3500 dually, eg); with 8' 9" beam, the 30 would require permits, no?
Again, if the right deal came along at the right time, it would NOT be passed!! ;D
Yes, most states have 8' 6" as the limit for non-wideload trailers, although some states are 9' and a few are 8'...
What boat you really get may depend on where you want to be sailing... The Caribbean is better suited to shallower draft boats, where the Pacific Northwest is not so picky about draft.
The other thing is that the ground tackle and sails of boats over 30' start to get more than a single person can really manage without assistance or powered equipment.
Quote from: AdriftAtSea on July 30, 2006, 06:17:29 PM
What boat you really get may depend on where you want to be sailing... The Caribbean is better suited to shallower draft boats, where the Pacific Northwest is not so picky about draft.
Where do I WANT to be sailing? All Over. ;D
While the list is certainly fluid right now, so far all the boats that I am considering draw in the 4 ft range. There is a good bet that this next boat purchase (some time out, btw) will be my permanent boat.
You know what's sad? I realized yesterday that I could sell my 18 ft-er and have almost enough money for the initial purchase of a Triton. There's actually a Rhodes Meridian for sale for less than I could get for my little boat (haven't seen it, but it probably needs a lot of work). I don't really want to give up my trailerable right now, being as we are landlocked, but if it comes to that ...
Actually that Meridian should be in "good to go " shape. A guy named Ric did a LOT of work on it, then had to sell. He sold for MUCH less than is being asked now by the way.
Oh- and that's hull # 9, built right before Tehani, which is hull # 10.
Well I know I just purchased my Com-Pac 19 but I can see my next boat being the Com-Pac 25 or something comparable. It has standing head room which would be a major feature of the next boat, especially if you are spending a lot more time aboard.
We can dream can't we?! ;D
-Kevin
I doubt I'll get bigger boat-itis any time soon...since I'm on a 28' to begin with. :D
Capt Smollet made mention of seeking out people and information regarding cruising with children. While in Miami at the boat show, Pam Walls spoke on several topics and I found her fascinating. Her family (with kids) did a 7 yr circumnavigation in which she was writing a book about. The name of her boat is Kandarik and she has written several articles that I have seen here and there. She still works at West Marine in Ft. Lauderdale and is very approachable. She loves to help others and talk sailing. She gave us her email address and contact info. I bet if you contact her, you will have a great conversation on this topic. Her email address is pamw@westmarine.com or 954-527-5540. Maybe her book is even complete. This lady is infectious. My guess John is that your wife would enjoy chatting with her.
Thanks, I will contact her if for no other end than to find out when the book will be available. I am now reading Into the Light by the Martins, as also recommended here on SailFar. ;)
I've got a Triton and I couldn't be happier with her. She's built like a tank, parts are inexpensive, she sails well (I always get a kick out of the surprise the racers have at her speed), her capsize screening rating is very good and she is easily singlehanded.
Space-wise she is a little tight for more than two people, but I'm getting a full cockpit cover made which will almost double the enclosed space. The cockpit is fitted with a shower and I figure this is where I'll be spending most of my nights once I get to the tropics. I redid the v-berth into a double, bur with children the stock configuration should work quite well, although I would suspect they will find cockpit camping more fun.
I recently hauled her from New Mexico to Maine on a home built trailer (two car hauler modified with a support for the Triton). Used an old Ford F600 to pull her, but any of the new larger diesel pickups should do the job and probably much better than the F600 did (55 MPH gets a littel old after a couple of days ;) )
If you decide to go with a Triton, let me know. I can put you in touch with a bunch of Triton people on the East Coast who can help you with all sorts of projects and information.
Good hunting,
Joe Joe Joe.....you are obviously a man of utmost class and good taste!! I think the Triton,properly outfitted and upgraded, represents thee finest all around sailing vessel under 30ft.....and a lot finer than many over 30ft to boot. Their combination of seakeeping,shallow draft,sailing ability,simplicity and dam fine classic looks are hard to beat!! Good for you
The cockpit cover sounds like a really great solution. I've read that the Triton cn be pretty tender-is this what you've found? I've been on boats that seem to have a kind of lurching motion when first pressed by the wind, how does the Triton react to a fresh beam breeze?
oded kishony
Thanks Frank, you are a scholar and a gentleman. ;) When I saw my first Triton (the one I now own, BTW) it was love at first sight.
oded kishony, the east coast Triton's (Pearson) react slightly differently than the west coast (Aeromarine) boats. The EC boats are initially tender, but once on heel are quite stable. The WC boats seem to be a bit more stable initially, partially due to their smaller rigs. I have owned both, and either would make a good cruising boat. Overall, I prefer the EC version, even though you give up the solid glass deck, but that's just personal preference. CSF=1.65 I have never noticed the lurching you mentioned, she heels over and stays put.
I'm really looking forward to the cockpit cover. Spouse gets the down below and I get the cockpit. :D
> I have never noticed the lurching you mentioned, she heels over and stays put.<
Oh I wasn't referring to a Triton lurching. I was on a friend's boat some years ago-I don't even remember what kind of boat- but it had a very unpleasant way of heeling. The boat would just suddenly lurch with every puff of wind but would then stabilize. When a boat is described as 'tender' does that also describe how abruptly she heels? What factor determines the speed at which a boat initially heels? Does this initial heeling indicate ultimate stability?
oded kishony
Quote from: oded kishony on September 07, 2006, 01:34:04 PM
> When a boat is described as 'tender' does that also describe how abruptly she heels? What factor determines the speed at which a boat initially heels?
"Tender" refers to "how easily" not "how fast." That is, a boat that is tender will roll with small torques. The speed of heeling would be related to a combination of tenderness and windspeed. It's a torque problem, where the net torque is torque (wind on sails) - torque (self righting of boat) and the "speed" at which the boat rolls is related to angular acceleration which is given by the torque divided by the moment of inertia of the boat (and rig).
So, I guess all else being "equal" (windspeed, center of gravity, moment of inertia, etc), a tender boat would heel more 'quickly' than a stiff one. But, all the things that effect tenderness are those things that preclude such a comparison - those boats would not be equal.
Quote
Does this initial heeling indicate ultimate stability?
No, not generally. The stability curve of a boat can be very complicated depending on where the center of gravity is located, the shape of the hull, total mass, etc. Initial tenderness is quite common on rounded bilge boats, but with properly designed ballast, they can be quite 'stiff' at larger angles of heel.
I think that most of the 'good' ultimately stable boats stiffen up at 10-15 degrees. My little boat is like that. Very tender up to about 10 degrees or so. Even though she is very tippy at the dock, she can handle 15-18 kts of wind or so with full main and working jib without washing the windows. That's not too bad for a boat with only 1350 lb displacement.
Hull shape means so much.Different designs do different things well. A hull with a wide beam and firm bilges will have great initial stability,take a fair bit to heel her over,generally pound more in a seaway and once it starts to go over.....have very limited ultimate stability. A longer/narrow hull with slack bilges will have fair better motion in a seaway,have exellent ultimate stability , but will initially seem quite tender. All depends on intended usage.In my book...the Triton would be one of the best compromises for an inexpensive,comfortable sailing ,'offshore' type hull.
Oops, sorry I missed those questions.
Going a little further, more modern boats are generally beamier than the more traditional boats. They tend to be stiffer initially because of this wider beam. The problem with some of these new designs is they can achieve stability when inverted, meaning they can roll over and not come back around. More traditional boats like the Triton tend to return to the mast up, keel down position more rapidly.
The beamier boats I've sailed on always seemed to have more difficulty maintaining their course, seeming twitchy when you are steering them. This is more a function of modern keel design than beam, but is another function of more modern hull/keel design. The Triton's full keel with cutaway forefoot lets her track very well like traditional full keel boats, but, unlike full keel boats, still turn fairly quickly. Kind of the best of both worlds.
I suspect broader beam monohulls may be a bit more impacted by chop too. I sailed on a trimaran once and the port to starboard action of the boat due to waves coming beam on was quite abrupt. I would think this might, to a lesser degree, be applicable to broader beam monohulls. Boats like the Triton seem to ride fairly easily when receiving beam on waves.
Edit...
You beat me to it Frank... :)
I poured you both some grog so that me might toast Carl Alberg together.
To Carl..... ;D
To Carl it is !! ....Cheers !
Part of the reason the motion on most multihulls is so abrupt is that the boats generally mass less, so they have a quicker motion than monohulls. The beamier monohulls may not have the quicker motion, or at least to the same degree, but it depends more on the total displacement of the boat IMHO than the beam of the boat.
Quote from: AdriftAtSea on September 07, 2006, 10:07:56 PM
but it depends more on the total displacement of the boat IMHO than the beam of the boat.
The laws of physics are not opinions. Stability curves and thus righting moments DO depend on beam insofar as the beam effects the distribution of mass. Righting moment is based on intertia which is strictly speaking a tensor (a kind of hyper vector). And we are not even considering the effects of waves on the boat (which complicates things tremendously since then we have to be concerned with the stress tensor as well).
Each term in the interia tensor has vectors that describe the distance from the coordinate origin (which for simplicity we can take as the center of mass). So, total displacement IS important, but the distribution of that mass in space is ultimately what determines the motion. Therefore, beam is a factor, and putting the mass in two hulls far from the center of mass is quite different than putting the mass in an equivalently wide single hull with mass more evenly distributed along the 'beam.' You can construct our two hypothetical boats with the same total displacement, but the motion will still be very, very different.
Also, consider this. A lot of mass located AT the center of mass will rotate (roll) easily; so it is possible for a heavy boat to be very tippy - if a large percentage of the total displacement is located near the center of mass (which will lie on the roll axis). What makes a ballast keel work to yield righting moment is that it is 'offset' from the center of mass; as the boat heels, the ballast results in a torque in the 'go back upright' direction.
Hope this helps. ;)
Way TOOooo much 'vectors' 'tensors' 'interia' and 'mass'for a real simple mind like mine. A great designer once said "if it looks fast and smooth , it probably will be". When you look at a 1/2 hull of an offshore design.....ya KNOW it's goin to be smooth in the waves. Do the same with a 'wide body/flat bottom' and ya just KNOW its going da pound !! Rocket science simply proves what your eye already tells ya.
>Rocket science simply proves what your eye already tells ya.<
I'm just an ignorant violinmaker, but for the last 5 years I've been learning the acoustical physics of the violin. I've been truly awed by the physicists and engineers I've worked with.
There are three basic types of minds, ones that can understand and integrate formulas and symbols, ones that have an intuitive grasp of how things work and mostly stupid people who can't do much of anything ;-)
The analytical and the intuitive mind very rarely inhabit the same body. In fact the analytical and intuitive often can't communicate at all with each other-often they just don't speak the same language. This might all be about right brain vs left brain stuff.
Oddly almost every violinmaker I know also sails a boat.
oded kishony
Who would have thought you could mix physics, sailing and violins?
(http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/attachment.php?attachmentid=3641&stc=1)
Quote from: Cmdr Pete on September 08, 2006, 03:10:07 PM
Who would have thought you could mix physics, sailing and violins?
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Right on.
Old 'Albert' was an intuitive abstract thinker...he would day dream ideas and then set about proving them. A brilliant man..a top physics mind...and yet he had a very hard time making accurate change at the store !! He simply LOVED his sailboats and those close to him wrote of how he was 'most at peace' while sailing.
"I am happy because I want nothing from anyone. I do not care for money. Decorations, titles, or distinctions mean nothing to me. I do not crave praise. The only thing that gives me pleasure, apart from my work, my violin, and my sailboat, is the appreciation of my fellow workers."
A. Einstein
"A little nookie would be nice too"
C. Pete
By the way
Eistein only owned small sailboats (as far as I know)
Incidentally, I played in a quartet, whenI lived on Long Island, whose members had played with Einstein. I also recently saw a violin that Einstein had taken apart and was messing around with, trying to improve the sound.
~OK
He had one about 26ft (long/narrow/low) that he lost when Hitler started the 'Jewish thing' in germany
Hey now- let's not leave Mr Rhodes out of that toast. We feel that our Meridian is every bit the equal of any of the Alberg designs.
In our marina we have an Alberg 30, a Triton, a Cape Dory 25 and Cape Dory 27. Many there feel our boat is the prettiest. Can't deny ours is the best kept. Of course, I wouldn't complain about the 30 if it was given to me. ;D
AH.....mr Rhodes was indeed a fine designer !!! Beautiful boats...well worth a toast. But the the cheers Faith put forth was for us 'Alberg ' sailors...Faith-Ariel ..Joe-Triton Frank ex Ariel/now Electra (all Alberg) sailors. Kurt and others fit here also. SOOOooooo To Mr Alberg AND now Mr Rhodes......Cheers !!!!!
You know, I have a theory about those old time type designers- Alberg, Rhodes, Stephens, etc. I think they all grew up in an era of wooden boats. So when it came time for THEM to be designers, they drew lines that could be planked, even if they were being built in glass. That's the lines they knew as younger sailors. The lines that you can hang a plank on also give that very pleasing look that most of us prefer in a boat. Longer overhangs, sweeping sheers, etc.
The more modern designers never drew a wooden hull and probably never sailed on one- all their experience IS in glass, so they don't have that subconscious feel or restraint that the older guys did.
What do you think?
Quote from: CharlieJ on September 09, 2006, 03:42:59 PM
The more modern designers never drew a wooden hull and probably never sailed on one- all their experience IS in glass, so they don't have that subconscious feel or restraint that the older guys did.
What do you think?
Yes, I think that is valid.
Here's to Mr. Rhodes !
Grog all around.... ;D
Look at the 8.7 Columbia. they are very stable, have an abundance of room and they are a gream to sail. The keel is a fin but it looks like a modified fuul keel. I have one if you have any questions. Dan
Most definitely, the Triton is a wooden boat rendered in fiberglass and has a lot in common with the Folkboat.
While I must agree that the Triton is a great boat, take a look at the performance calculator-
http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html
And compare the Folkboat with the Seafarer Meridian. It's really interesting how closely the two match up.
The Triton of course is 3 feet longer than either. The Pearson Ariel however, IS a quite close matchup to both the other 25 footers, and a helluva a sailboat..
Right on, CJ.
These old boats from the 'old school' are basically designs that were tested, refined, and proven over a lo-o-ong time, then rendered what was at the time the latest technologically advanced materials. The best of both worlds, as it were.
Not to say that newer boats aren't any good, I don't intend that at all.
Just that Rhodes/Alberg/Shaw et al were drawing boats at a time fortuitous for blending of the two mediums, like CJ pointed out. That is an excellent thing, for those of us with that preference. :)
/me hoists a glass, too 8)
I once read an article in which the 'theory' was proposed that what we think makes a 'beautiful' boat = what makes a strong, seaworthy boat. The idea was that in the "old days," one saw boats that lasted - a seaworthiness Darwinism if you will. Over time, these features became 'normal' or even 'pretty.' Our minds associate certain features, lines and shapes with seaworthiness and strength, and those have gotten translated into beauty.
It was to me an interesting idea. The article was in Ocean Navigator, iirc, and was about design numbers that have stood the test of time both in terms of real-world lastability and emotional beauty. Things on the list included sheer ratios, L/D ratios, forefoot and counter overhang ratios, etc.
The upshot is that a LOT of what we think as 'pretty lines' and 'classical looks' on a boat are directly equatable to time-tested, hardcore seaworthiness. The Albergs, Rhodes and Shaws of the design world may not have been settting out to draw 'pretty' boats so much as 'seaworthy ones,' and to a sailor, nothing is 'prettier' than a boat that will last.
There are some new designs that are making an impact.
A favorite of mine is the J28. Only 71 were built. It is a remarkable in every respect for a small voyaging yacht. Not a racer but a very good sailing cruising boat.
Elizabeth and I are wondering if we can manage/tolerate the short headroom of an Aphrodite 101. Sketches and theorys abound.
The shear joy of sailing a good performing boat matters, too.
Is performance on anyone's list of Must Haves?
Norman
There's really no point in getting a boat that isn't at least a decent sailing boat... life is too short for that.
Quote from: Norm on October 25, 2006, 05:09:19 PM.
Is performance on anyone's list of Must Haves?
Define performance.
To me, seaworthiness and dependability are the performance factors that matter. Usually, when I hear the term "performance," I think "speed" is what is meant. Speed does not really matter to me. If I have my wife and children on board with me, I don't care if it takes me an extra day or two to get "there," but I want to have that extra bit in my favor in the odds column of getting there.
John Vigor, the author of "our favorite book," wrote a piece (I think in Small Craft Advisor) a while back about this notion of a faster boat being safer since it can outrun storms and the like. He laid that 'myth' to rest, and argued quite lucidly that "speed" is perhaps not the key performance number for a voyaging boat.
As is often the case in engineering, there is a trade-off between "speed" and what most of use mean by "seaworthiness." The design factors that make a boat 'bulletproof' are generally at odds with those that make a boat 'fast.' Exceptions certainly exist.
Performance, at least for me, includes both speed and the ability to sail to windward. Fighting your way off of a lee shore is not exactly fun to being with, and trying to do it in a boat that performs poorly to windward is far more work and far more hazardous, especially in the conditions when it is most important to do so.
Performance is a 'relative' word.Different boats perform well to their intended uses. In vehicles...you would not take a sports car off roading or a 4x4 to the race track.That stretch limo sure is nice on the highway,but ya can't dart in and out of busy down town traffic and squeeze into parking spaces like a corolla...A full keel off shore boat ain't no trailor sailor...nor a J24 an ideal offshore boat.True performance is being honest with yourself on how you WILL use your boat most often...do your research and buy the boat that best performs to how you will ACTUALLY sail it.One man's 'performance' ideal is anothers lemon.All boats are 'compromises'....the trick is getting the right compromise for you.
I think everybody wishes their boat was faster-or they should.
However, the difference between a fast boat and a slow one of the same size might be a minute per mile. That's not alot, although it does add up.
But, most boats aren't sailed to their potential. Their bottoms are rough and haven't been scrubbed. Sails are poor and badly trimmed. Steering is inattentive, etc. etc.
They just aren't going to sail away from you.
Your boat might not be a greyhound, but don't let her be an old dog.
(http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/attachment.php?attachmentid=3410&stc=1&d=1151332148)
C Pete...That is a great 'performance' picture and a dam fine lookin vessel !!
Pete- Is that you and your boat???
Yeah, that's my 1965 Pearson Commander "Grace" Same hull as the Pearson Ariel.
I do get a certain evil pleasure if I can roll past some weekend warrior in a big boat. Can't help it.
Wouldn't mind hopping on a trimaran some time.
I saw this strange looking craft coming at me a while ago. It got closer fast, and I could see it was an F-31 flying a spinnaker, one ama lifting out of the water. Holy @%&*#--that boat was moving. It was all I could do to get out of his way. Very impressive.
(http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/attachment.php?attachmentid=3507&stc=1&d=1153756809)
I think the Ariel/commander are exellent compromise boats.Easy to single hand,fairly shallow draft (Keys/bahamas),offshore capable,great motion,fairly fast..very fast on a reach,fairly roomy,pretty,not too expensive.......a LOT is very 'right' about them!! Gotta love Carl...too bad he's not around...boats would be safer and have a 'soul' again
Maybe I'm stirring the pot here, but I think I would avoid any IOR boats or to be more exact, any boat designed under the IOR rules.
Is there any reason why I would be wrong?
Are you implying that an ariel is an IOR boat...if so..are you implying you wouldn't want one?? Curious on your thinking??....I'm lacing up the gloves. An Ariel or commander are a MORC design,the OB model has close to 50% ballast(lead),They outperform their waterline easily. Hull speed is 5.76,but they will show 6's consistantly with 7's occasionaly.They are fairly narrow with a beam of less than 1/3rd the length. They have a full keel with a cutaway forefoot (typical Carl) so they track well, yet turn easily. With sails properly trimmed, they will steer themselves for minutes at a time without even sheet- to- tiller. They have a proper bridgedeck and straight dropboards that won't easily come out in a knockdown if jarred loose ..as well as low freeboard for less windage. Let's compare to a previous boat...a beneteau 331. The important numbers for offshore work are motion comfort and capsize screening. After the fastnet sinkings/deaths, it was determined that "2" be the highest number allowed in offshore racing (lower is better). Beneteau331 CS= 2.03......Ariel=1.84 !! In motion comfort numbers..higher numbers mean 'smoother'...beneteau331=21.46....Ariel=24.51. For a 25.5fter, this is a GREAT boat! Compare the design to a folkboat..(argueably thee best lil offshore boat)...similar in so many ways! Ariels have crossed the Pacific to Hawia and back as well as all the way to Australia. Fairly fast,comfortable,safe,only 3ft8in draft and from $3000 to $8000.....how do you go wrong? I would sure consider one. But that's just my opinion........C-Pete..Cat K..Adam....what's yours ???
Ahh no implications here, sorry, I know that the Ariel is a CCA boat and a fine boat it is! CCA rules are reasonable and produced many great boats.
No I'm referring to those boats that came later, designed and build under IOR rules, Not sure I would want one.
Besmirching the Ariel here is a risky proposition at best... the Ariel has many ardent defenders.... :D
Pete-
If you're ever up in the Buzzards Bay area, let me know...I'll take you out on the Pretty Gee... We've only had one boat catch us this summer...and it was an F31 that's setup for racing...
Dougcan- I'd be inclined to agree on the later IOR boats. They started squeezing the rules so hard after a few years that those boats really are squirrely to sail. The early IOR boats weren't nearly as bad, but still no where near the same as the CCA boats they sorta replaced. The Ariel, our Meridian, the Commander, etc, were all designed to the CCA rules or along those lines. VERY different boats.
Most any of the older type, longer keel, some what longish overhangs, etc, will make very good offshore and near shore boats. Tehani is a quite seakindly yacht for her size- her only problem is not having the capacity for enough stores for a really long passage. The Ariel is in the same position, but not quite as badly as they have a tad more beam. It's when you hit the yachts the size of the Triton that you really begin to get to the "Bluewater" capable sizes in my opinion. Strictly due to load carrying ability, not to length of boat.
OOOPS...don't mind me Dougcan...lost my head for 30 seconds...OK OK ..the speed I peck at took a couple of minutes. I have a real soft spot for Alberg designs...guess it shows.
Thanks CJ, that pretty much confirm what I thought. No IOR rules boat for me.
Frank, Ariel is a great boat, but it's too small for me, Triton might be okay, but I have never been in one so I cannot say.
Over all, I'm drilling down to about 33' maximum and a Rhodes design. I like the Rhodes boats. Not many in my neck of the woods (okay make that none.) So, to get the boat I want, probably means I'll have to move. So I'm still looking.
I'm in the Pac NW and I own a Yankee Seahorse 24, which is great for Puget Sound and points north, but not sure I want to take it out to the open ocean even though it's supposed to be "blue water capable"
It is indeed a bit small and while I can "live on it" for a month or so, it won't work over the long term. The main saving grace of the YS24 is that it has a pop-top which is a real pleasure to have headroom at anchor.
I'm a big guy at 6' and about 240lbs with broad shoulders, so I need a bit of room to move around in.
I do not need a large boat though, not like a 40'er or some such, just one with some room below. Ability to go to windward is high on my list.
Dougcan....The triton is a beauty!! Same idea as an ariel...only on steroids.The V berth is WAY bigger , seperate head compartment,built in bookshelf , forward facing opening ports on the doghouse roof for a breeze at anchor , way bigger cockpit etc etc etc.They have been circumnavigated. There is a great site " adam's voyages' ..or something close to that. He details his mods and experiences. Again..fairly shallow draft and not too many $$.....did I mention 'pretty' as a bonus.
It's a great website-
http://www.atomvoyages.com/
I wander around in it every once in a while
I've always admired the Tartan 34C
This one is going cheap in New York
http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/boa/226232241.html
Yes, the Tartans are generally pretty boats, but now you're starting to get in to really big boats, relatively speaking... :D