Hanks or Roller: Question for the Hank-On Crowd

[Zen]

What is the preferred jib configuration for you distance travelers,

Rolling Furler jib or hank-on?

From the little use I have had with my rolling furler it is very nice as a singlehander. I did try it part way out one day, in a somewhat heavy wind. It did not go to well. However that might have been me, I was having some adjustment problems that day.

I read somewhere they are only supposed to be use all out or not at all. There is a certain type that can be used for reefing otherwisefull out /full in

inquiring mind want to know...

[CapnK]

Hanks for me - good old reliable every time KISS system. :)

[Amorous]

I have hank on sails but am considering roller furling/reefing. 
It may be safer when single handing a small boat to not have to go to the foredeck, though I've only had a frightening experience once, and a jammed roller furler would have made it MUCH worse.
I kinda like "sailing" as compared to "driving" a boat too, so I haven't made a firm decision yet.

[Skipper Dave]

Zen
We got a "ProFurl" roller furling and we love it.  Although, in the  beginning we had to make some adustments and I urge you to hire a capable riggor to install and make adjustments.  One mistake I made was the selection of the type of line I used.  The first line I used stretched and soon I could not pull the jib in all the way.  Changed line and all is fine.  Also make sure you have at least two or three wraps of the sheets around the jib as I  didn' t one time and a wind storm unfurlled my jib and ripped it from flapping.  As I say once the bugs are worked out it makes sailing and reefing a lot easier.

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This morning it looked so nice out I thought I'd leave it out.

S/V "Tina Marie" Cal 2-27 (Featured Boat Lats & Atts Oct. 05)

[s/v Faith]

fore-sail plan......

  Ok, I know this is nuts.... but it works (kinda)

I have a Pro-furl also.  Like using it, but I no longer recommend it. 

  The 'permanently lubed' swivel that rides the headstay (and attaches the head to the jib halyard) is not well engineered and the bushing binds on the extrusion, and I have had to actually go aloft to douse the headsail...... Not cool. 
  Also, the tiny hex set screws that attach the extrusions together (they are like 6' or 8' and you stack them up to the lenght you need) The screws back out, and then the (already binding) swivel will not be lowered unless you go aloft (and swing out to the headstay) with the smallest possible hex wrench to tighten the screws......

  Now, after that 'case study' in what is wrong with Pro-furl and by extension roller furling in general WHy do I keep it?

  Simple.... It allows me to sail more, and gives me greater control.  I can use my furler as a roller reefing unit, and my 155% is good down to about 120% (and functions down to about ~90% but not while sailing close).  Most report less then satisfactory performance with a rolled headsail, but I have a new sail and an EXCELLENT sailmaker....

  Now, I also have 2 other options.

The Headsail can be furled and I can fly my 90% (just less then working?) jib that has a wore luff.  Here is how I do it. 

  I take the head to the spin halyard, and the tack goes to a second tack fitting on my stem head (just aft of the fitting for the forestay).  I take up tension on the wire that is sewn in the luff of the sail until you can just about strum it like a guitar string.  It does not keep ideal shape this way, as the luff has a but of bend to it, but I used it for 3 months like this after I blew out my original headsail and waited for the new one to be made.  I even raced with this once..... I did not win but I finished the course and was able to add the points I needed for the series.

  The third option.....  ::) as yet untried.  I came across a small (working) jib for a Catalina 22.  I plan to try to attach the tack with a pendant to my second foredeck cleat and fly it as I did the working jib from the spin halyard.  This (may) work like a twin headsail sloop rig, if it can draft behind the jib..... (might have to partially furl, but then there does not seem to be much of an advantage.... might look cool though.  ;D

[Zen]

Thanks for the advice. I already have a Harkin, Harlkin  ??? or something like that from the PO. I have no problem really with the operation, It did get stuck once, but I think that was me, because I did not know what I was doing  :-[
Last time out it was better, one thing that made a difference was putting knots in the end of the sheets after running it through a cleat. Then it does not go flying wild whilst singlehanding, trying to steering with my leg, grab the sheet with one hand and hold on from falling overboard with the other...

However I have not really used it that much. When I tried it reefed it did not go to well, again that might have just me me  :-\ perhaps too much of a reef  :-[
I will give it a real go this spring... ;)

Zen
We got a "ProFurl" roller furling and we love it.  Although, in the  beginning we had to make some adustments and I urge you to hire a capable riggor to install and make adjustments.  One mistake I made was the selection of the type of line I used.  The first line I used stretched and soon I could not pull the jib in all the way.  Changed line and all is fine.  Also make sure you have at least two or three wraps of the sheets around the jib as I  didn' t one time and a wind storm unfurlled my jib and ripped it from flapping.  As I say once the bugs are worked out it makes sailing and reefing a lot easier.

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This morning it looked so nice out I thought I'd leave it out.

S/V "Tina Marie" Cal 2-27 (Featured Boat Lats & Atts Oct. 05)

[captedteach]

I have a Furlex on my boat with a 150 - with all rollers a bit of upkeep is in order  McLube sailkote is a wonderful thing  It makes that roller werk SMOOOOTH (and the sailslides too)   a litte bit of laying everything out makes popping open the genny super simple  - and getting it dowsed as well. 

For a trip I would keep my furler on but I would run an extra halyard that I could use as a forestay in an emergency.  A bit of StaSet-X attached in that extra hole behind the roller and cranked on at the mast wench should get tight enuff to hank a sail to OR maybe have a 'forestay' made that could be added if needed - an extra halyard could still haul it up and you wouldnt have to worry about chafe

[CapnK]

I should throw this into the discussion as well, since it works for me and also worked well for the Pardeys, but rarely gets seen in these discussions -

I have a slab reefing 110% jib. With the reef in, it goes down to about 90%. A good compromise for small boats, it allows one to have more flexibility on those days where the conditions vary.

I'd like to have a genny that was this way as well. A 150 that would reef to a 120 would be perfect - between the two reefing headsails, I'd have the functionality and range of use of 4 sails, while only needing to stow 2. To round out the selection, a 150%+ drifter made of 1.5 oz (or even .75 oz) cloth would be a boon, as well as a storm jib, and a trysail for the main (but I may just make the main with a deep 3rd reef, too). I think that would give me a quiver of sails to handle most anything, with stowability in mind.

Also, I will be adding a 2nd forestay (and twinning the backstay as well). Besides brute-strength reliability, there are many advantages to this setup - winging out headsails instead of a spinnaker = more sail area & less fuss downwind, hanking on a sail and switching the halyard over makes for faster hoists/less time on the foredeck in pitching seas, two masts supports in case one should break.

Time-tested old school reliability is what I'm after. I really do like roller furling on other peoples boats, but, as Brion Toss puts it "roller snarling" can get you in a jam sometimes. ;) (man, there go those puns again...) My plan will avoid that possibility.

Hank ons are not as easy as simply pulling a line, but nonetheless have a lot going for it that to my mind outweigh the benefits when I take into account what *I* have planned, which is a very specific, individual approach that I know is not "right" for most people.

If I was intending to stay stateside and/or coastal, I'd roller furl. :) It is damned nice and easy, that's for sure. :)

[Amorous]

I would recommend against the third set of reef points on the main if your intention is to use it in storm conditions.  I had it done on my old main and the very first time I used them shredded the top of the sail.  The fabric is just not up to it.  Just look at and feel a true storm trysail and you'll wonder how you ever thought it would work.  As far as reefing jibs go...I've had them too (came with the boat), I could never get them to work very well when reefed.  Seems the resulting "sausage" screws up the air flow so bad that it just isn't worth the trouble.  It also becomes similiar to a baseball bat swinging up on the foredeck when you finally have to go forward to take it down.  Besides, tying in the reef points isn't any easier than bringing it down and hoisting a different jib.
Just some thoughts.

[Mr. Fixit]

I really prefer hanks--I had roller furling on a previous boat (Hood) and I found myself not paying enough attention to wx reports and conditions. I think it is better to change sails early rather than rely on roller furling. If one is not comfortable at the bow in rough weather than roller furling may be necessary. I do wear a harness tho, and on the boat I am working on now will have flat strapping from cockpit to bow. I prefer to have storm sails set, rather that reefed lighter sails in heavy weather.

[CapnK]

Am -

I'm heading more and more towards building my own main this year. I plan on making it battenless with no roach. I agree with you that a trysail will work better in full-on storm conditions (ie heaving-to while the poo flys by), but I'll still do a set of 3rd reef points on the main (25%), and will build that upper part of the sail of heavier cloth than the lower portions. It'll give me another option, I'm thinking. Might do nothing more than serve as a riding sail, who knows. :)

AFA the reefing jib - in one of the Pardey books they show some pretty detailed descriptions/drawings of a zipper-joined reefing headsail they had made for their second boat, it's pretty spiffy, and takes away the objectionable "sausage" which, I'll admit, can pack a wallop if you aren't keeping an eye on it. :) I don't know if I'll go that far with it, it hasn't been that much of a problem for me yet. We'll see in time - I'll be using it a lot more this year offshore, stay tuned. :) Reefing the jib isn't much faster than hoisting another, but it keeps you from having to haul a sail forward and another back aft and getting that one stowed, that's what I see as another big advantage.

[Jack Tar]

I have had both hank on and roller. I prefer the roller. Presently Im using a 150 genny on a Harkin roller. The foil has two slots so I can raise a smaller Jib behing the genny prior to droping it if I ever had to. I have had the boat out in 50Knts. Not done intentionaly but Im sure glad I could roll the sail up without going on deck.  Not having to go forward is a big big pluss and when your by yourself with no auto pilot furling is a must.  My main sail reefing system is a weird set up. Regular set of two feefing points. Reefing hook on the luff and two seperate lines for each reef point set. I guess you would call it slab type. Now here is the catch. You know how when you reef and all the mast cars pile up at the bottom above the goose neck of the boom. Mine has a line that is woven through the cars. This line keeps the cars attached to the sail but when let out or slacked off of a mast cleat it lets the sail and cars seperate. This results in not having a big stack of sail above the Boom at the mast. I have no idea what this system is called by it works really well. I guess I need to post some pic's when I can so you can see how it works.
   Oh and I can put a sail up onto the furler foil faster than I can hank a sail on. Once started there is a bail and it self feeds the sail into the foil slot.

[Capt.Ron]

I am going to stay with my "old school rule" approach, keeping it simple.. "hank-ons" for me please.... My wife will vito my my purchasing power when the next sails are purchased... she wants  two rollers for our twin forestays. I will look and consider all options, but we have a brand new 160% with hanks, a 120% with hanks, a 150% drifter with hanks, storm foresail with  hanks,... a lot to consider.

The roller system would certainly be more accomadating and user freindly, especially considering our cutter rig, which neccissitates that somebody go out and walk the sail from side to side around the cutter rig when tacking, somewhat inconvenient at best, and not particularily safe either.

I still have another year or two before we decide, I'll just keep reading and learning and then decide.

Ron

[captedteach]

On the CSY 44 I sailed we would furl the yankee to pass the staysail then let it fly again when we were on the new course - It was easier than crawling over all the PAX lounged out on the deck

[starcrest]

 'howzaboutarolla foila dats hanked on...I hoida dat happenin.

[CharlieJ]

Hanks for us.

Tehani carries a working jib with a reef point installed that takes it down to just above storm sail size. I had the same setup on my 35 foot triamran and it worked very well. If you get a copy of Bingham's sailor's Sketchbook he shows a way to reef a headsail from the cockpit, once you have the new sheets attached of course. If you were in an iffy set of circumstances those new sheets could be rove ahead of time. Our WJ is 6.5 oz Contender Super Cruise by the way.

Our mainsail is cut battenless, with a slight hollow to the leech. Sets extremely well and can be hoisted and dropped off the wind if need be- no requirement to round up, which in some cases could be dangerous. It has three sets of reef points installed also. I keep two rove when sailing outside and reeve the third one if I think I'll be needing it. You can tell. It is also cut from Contender 6.5 oz Super Cruise cloth.

I also had battenless sails on my ketch rigged trimaran ( A 35 foot Cross)

Both of the sails can be seen in my gallery in the pic entitled "hard heeled on matagorda Bay"

Both sails were made from kits from Sailrite, by a good internet friend of mine from the TSBB- Eric Jon out in Vegas. He did a SUPERB job.

Personally I feel that if you are sailing offshore, battenless is the way to go.

[kingfish]

Hello all,
I am new to this site and from what I see its great.
Hanks or furlers? My old boat a catalina 30, which I crused extensivly down an up the west coast, and once to hawaii, had a hank system. I thought I loved it,just like what has been said before KISS. Now my new boat, Nantuckett clipper 32 (am I too big for this board??) I have a roller furling. This thing is great. I could never go back. But I do have a clipper rig so all my storm sails hank on. When its blowing strong, with my full keel its tough to get the boat to tack. Just roll up the headsail make the turn and let out. Easy. I also have a roller furling main, This is the worst enginered product I have ever seen. Used it once and have yet again. I just furl the sail like every one else. So in my opinion. Furlers are  grate. just make sure you get one that allows you to change sails without going alloft.
Cheers
D

[Pixie Dust]

Welcome aboard Kingfish!!   No, your boat is absolutely not too big for this site. All are welcome and we all value any info or input that others bring.  Glad to have you!

[AdriftAtSea]

Not all roller furling systems allow you to reef the sail.  Some are only furling systems, others can do both.  I have one of each...the furling-only system is for my light-air screacher, the roller reefing system is for my genoa. 

I prefer a good roller furling system, rather than hanked on headsails, as they can prevent going forward in bad conditions. 

Another option for a headsail in heavy weather is an ATN Gale Sail, which goes up over a roller furled headsail.  I've gone for this option as it is simpler and faster than trying to change headsails in bad conditions, and the Gale Sail is far more suited to heavy winds than my genoa.

For the main sail, I'd say that roller furling is probably not a wise option, as the systems are not as well proven as the headsail furling systems. In mast mainsail furling systems are particularly problematic, as any problems with it, or if you decide you want to drop the main sail after reefing it, you have to unfurl the entire sail.  If the in-mast furling system fails, it may leave you with a mainsail up, and no way to lower it.  If a boom-based mainsail furling system fails, you still have the option of using slab reefing...so you might as well skip the weight and expense of a boom-based furling system. 

Jackstays and slab reefing are the way to go IMHO. On most boats, a reef on a properly setup mainsail slab reefing system can be done in less than a minute with two people, and three or four minutes single handing.

[Zen]

How about some more info on this "ATN Gale Sail" ?
Sounds interesting