Anchors, anchors again, & more anchors....

[Frank]

Sure was quiet for a while.....Here goes that darn anchor talk....worst than politics! Charlie....can I have a rum and water  :o

[s/v Faith]

Don't worry Frank, I pluck these couple posts off and put them in the anchor thread....

 Dan, have you ever actually looked at a Manson Supreme?

They are a good looking anchor;



I understand that if you are just looking at the picture, you might read the description and be less then clear about this;

Reinforced Double Skinned Laminated toe

What could they be talking about????  Well, the 'toe' is not the fluke... it is the toe.  The Manson / Rocna design focuses a lot of strain on the tip if you are anchored in rock.  It is an area that could be (more) easily bent on either anchor since the fluke and the shank are both quite a bit wider... the stress would all be on the tip (or toe).  Manson adds a reinforced plate to the tip.  Rocna does not.

 I kind of like that Manson adds it.  

Rocna adds some plate onto their anchor too... they weld on 'wingletts' where the roll bar meets the fluke.  Do I think this matters?  No, of course not.  I do not think the Rocna is going to fail because they weld plates on the ends of the fluke any more then if they had copied Manson and reinforced the tip.

 They are both excellent anchors.  I also like the new Anchor Latina anchor and might have gone that route if it had been on the market when I bought it.  

  I know that since I have had my Manson Supreme I have not dragged anchor.  I rode it through a hurricane (Noel) and have cruised with it.  We anchored in places marked as 'poor holding' and rode out storms there... and did not drag. 

 Rocna claims Manson copied their design.... Others have cited where Manson had one on the market before Rocna so I am not sure how this is possible... or if it matters.  

 Rocna has shifted (at least some) of their production to China...  I personally don't like Chinese shackles, and would probably not buy an anchor made there.. the debate rages on.  

 When I bought my anchor, Rocna wanted a coupe hundred dollars more for their anchor, (and it was not certified by Lloyds) so I bought the Manson.  That and I did not like the way the Rocna marketing engine tried to cram their product down every one's throats.

 You have a Rocna, and you like it.  Great!  I have a Manson, and I like it.  Great!  ;D

 You and I both know that the hook is just a part of the overall equation anyway.  Proper rode, tactics,  and deck seamanship is the biggest parts of staying put.


 Personally I think the marketing is best left to those who do it for a living.  

Agreed?  :)

 

S/v Faith—

I'd point out that the Manson website says:

Reinforced Double Skinned Laminated toe. Provides an extremely strong forward section of the anchor where the most loading is concentrated.

The fluke of the Manson Supreme is two pieces, as it is "Laminated".  The blade of the Rocna, at least the one I have is bent using a brake press, rather than just rolled, and due to the compound nature of the bend caused by the brake press is stronger than the rolled shape of the Manson Supreme.

Dan,

 I know you like your Rocna, and I am glad it works for you.  This is not accurate though;

...BTW, the reason I went with a Rocna over the Manson Supreme is the because of the quality of the design.  The Manson Supreme's fluke is made of two thinner sheets of steel, which are edge-welded then have the edge weld ground down to shape the fluke, has the stock welded to one plate only, and then is hot-dip galvanized.  This means that the area between the plates is not galvanized and the only thing holding the stock to the larger plate is the ground down edge welding...  The fluke on the Rocna is a single, much heavier steel plate, and doesn't have the inherent design defects the Manson Supreme has IMHO....

 The curve of the Rocna (some of which are now being produced in China BTW) is slightly different then the Manson.  The fluke of the Manson is a single piece just like the Rocna.

[s/v Faith]

Oh yea.. and Dan,

  The Rocna is a pretty anchor too;





;)



;D

[Frank]

I like the curves on my delta better !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;) ;D ::) :o

Why I bought it...performance re price  (I'm thrifty)

why I keep it.....only dragged once (weeds-my fault) in over 300 nights at anchor

Why I trust it.....only dragged once in over 300 nights at anchor

The debate rages on :D

[Frank]

 I've always felt and wrote before that THEE best anchor is the one you trust. I've used danforth style with success, bruce knock-offs with success and my delta. All 3 live aboard. I've come to trust my delta more. Others in "their experiences" may not and trust another type better. When the wind is howling outside...it is that trust based on "your own experience" that allows you to sleep better. Totally personal.

[s/v Faith]

I like the curves on my delta better !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;) ;D ::) :o

Why I bought it...performance re price  (I'm thrifty)

why I keep it.....only dragged once (weeds-my fault) in over 300 nights at anchor

Why I trust it.....only dragged once in over 300 nights at anchor

The debate rages on :D

Some more anchor glamor shots...  :D





And for the fans of Chineese anchors... here is a Stainless version;

[s/v necessity]

I've got a Manson Supreme 25#, so here is a pic of the bottom.  It's definitely made of a lamination. It worries me not.  It adds some weight  to the tip and is beefy.

[AdriftAtSea]

One thing I'd point out is that Stainless Steel isn't the best material for an anchor, at least if you're planning on anchoring out a lot.  Anchors that are used, buried in mud/sand, are going to be deprived of oxygen and the stainless steel will suffer from crevice corrosion in the process.  If you're going to use the anchor, I'd highly recommend you get it in galvanized steel, not stainless steel.

[s/v necessity]

Not to mention that the stainless steel is frequently weaker than it's galvanized counterpart to begin with!

[Frank]

Just spoke with CJ.   He and Laura are anchored in a nice protected place in 12ft of water with 70ft of chain out. He's sipping on a beer, reading a book and a kayak is gluiding by ( I'm jealous!) He has a hard time typing on his lil buttons so shared some anchor info. He is very happy with his Bruce style anchors. On the previous boat, a 21fter, they had 2-2 month long trips to Florida and back...almost entirely at  anchor. It had a 16lb Bruce.One night with other boats rafted up they were caught in a 45knot sqaul. The 16lber held and took 45 minutes to retreave the next day...literally having to power around it in circles to 'unscrew it'. Their current boat has a 22lb claw. Again they have 2 Florida trips on it at 4 to 6 weeks each. Only once did it drag and that was when they experienced a 180 % 'instant' windshift in which the boat went straight back and over the anchor popping it out in reverse. Laura while single handing has had 2 squals in the 45knt range and it held. They are very happy with the value and performance of their bruce style anchors and based on their experience have confidence in them. They also carry other styles onboard as no one anchor does it all...but they trust their Bruce style as their main anchor.   CJ....hope I got this mostly right...I was taking notes quickly on 4 little sticky note pads  ;D

[CharlieJ]

Pretty much it Frank- thanks

[evantica]

Can someone explain why the "shape" of the differnt ancors on the market, why and where to use??? ???

[Tim]

A use of the search function here will show you a couple of threads with all you could want to know (and then some) ;)

[SV Wind Dancer]

Ankor wat?

[s/v Faith]

Can someone explain why the "shape" of the differnt ancors on the market, why and where to use??? ???

I went ahead and merged your thread into this one.  You can go back to the beginning, or you can simply go buy one of these and sleep very well;
Manson Supreme


You can also get the Chinese version, but it is more expensive...  ???





;D

[Auspicious]

Faith -

All the data I have seen indicates that it is much more likely that Manson copied Rocna, and not the other way around.

I have two Rocna anchors, one made in Canada and one in New Zealand. Some Rocna manufacturing is now done in China but there is no indication that I have seen anywhere that all the specs aren't being met. If you have definitive, quantitative information I'd like to see it.

Independent of manufacturing information, Manson is a clone company. Look at their whole product line. All copies. I prefer my money go to creative folk that contribute to state of the art.

[AdriftAtSea]

I'd second what Auspicious has said... Manson has a long standing tradition of copying anchors, and very little in the way of any track record of innovation.  The "rock slot" on the Manson Supreme is taken from the Sarca anchor.

Personally, I think the whole idea of the rock slot is stupid and ill-thought out.  How does the anchor know that the shackle has moved from the aft end of the stock to the forward end because you've intentionally done that to free the anchor, rather than due to a current or wind shift?  It doesn't... and there is no way the anchor will reset if the anchor is being dragged backwards.

[Frank]

OH NO    :o :o   That "anchor " talk again.

Right up there with politics and religion.

Words of simple wisdom:

                                get the biggest anchor ya can handle
                                have proper chain and rode
                                use more scope than ya need
                                have a 2nd of a different design

Bring up the "anchor talk" when things seem dull here,,,,,always good for a rise

    remember...................I like eggs    ;D ;) :o



   

[s/v Faith]

Ok,

 I must confess, I was having a bit of fun with that 'Chinese version' comment.  ;)

I think that either anchor would hold your boat well, and would not dissuade anyone from either.

That said, here are a couple more of the same points... since this will simply not go away.... (insert beating dead horse icon here).

 - The Manson Supreme rock slot is ADDED material.  It can not weaken the shank, it strengthens it.  The over all height  of the shank is higher... so it is stronger.  The bit about it being weaker is simply Rocna marketing bunk.. which is my biggest complaint with Rocna.

 - Rocna has resorted to gorilla marketing, editing Wiki adds, and was really quite obnoxious about their marketing.  They claim to no longer do this, but persist in trying to market their wares through misinformation which I find sleazy. I would not buy one of their (perfectly good) anchors on principal alone.

 - Rocna Moved some of their production to China.  There was no announcement until after they got 'outted' on another forum (it is now listed on their web site).  They claim high quality in thri Chinese plant... I am sure that is true of the initial production run... will it continue?  I prefer non-Chinese hardware, especially WRT ground tackle. (This is personal opinion, and I have NO data to suggest inferior ROCNA CHINA products.)

- Rocna was making some bogus claims about Manson on their site saying that the added metal on the tip was a liability.  There are zero reported failures due to this ADDED material... the idea that doubling the thickness of the steel makes it weaker is rather silly, but they persist in the claim.  

- My Manson Supreme has never dragged.  Many report the same of theirs.  Many say the same of their Rocna's.

Both are (IMHO) a dramatic improvement over prior anchors, I am sure that if used improperly either one can be made to fail.  I am very happy with my Manson Supreme, and hope that the same is true of everyone else here what ever anchor they may use.....








.... even if it is made in China.... [ducks].....  ;D

[Frank]

Up here where I come from we have our own brand...home grown..."Ottawa valley Anchors"
They've been used with success on small fishing boats for years.

Take one empty one gallon paint can
One 6 in nail.
Bend said nail into "U" shape
Fill said paint can with easy-mix concrete (have 2nd can at the ready
                                                                   if 2 are needed)
Insert said nail into concrete with about 3/4 inch loop exposed
Once cured...attach cheap yellow rode (no chain) and set from 12ft fishing boat

They've worked for years.

Now.....wonder if new paint cans are made in China ?  ;D  ;)   :o