Author Topic: gas stoves  (Read 554 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Owly055

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 291
  • kARRR-ma: +8/-0
gas stoves
« on: November 19, 2017, 07:02:45 PM »
     I was wondering if anybody used gas stoves, and I mean stoves that operate on liquid "gas" like Coleman fuel.    There doesn't seem to be anything in the way of marine stoves that use this sort of fuel.  The original old green Coleman camp stoves were a bit of a nightmare, but the small single burner backpacker stoves are much more highly refined, and could be mounted in a stainless steel tray with a grate with fiddles like a marine cooktop, and fed with a decent size remote tank with a pump that pressurized it like a weed sprayer.  The result could be an in counter cooktop that while it would not be as easy to use as propane, as you have to preheat the generator briefly, could operate on the same fuel as your outboard.  Only one fuel to carry, and no heavy steel tanks that you have to have filled or exchange.   Those tiny little stoves pump a LOT of BTUs, taking only about 3-4 minutes to boil a quart of water.
     Back in the mid 70's I was no longer able to find white gas, and was forced to use Coleman fuel at an outrageous price for my backpack stove, camping stove, and lanterns.......... about 12 times the price of gas.     I rebelled and began distilling motor fuel to use in these.   A cheap simple apparatus built from an old pressure cooker, some copper pipe coiled inside plastic pipe with water flowing through the for a condensor, a meat thermometer, and a hot plate, much of it from second hand stores and yard sales put me in the distillation business.   The resultant fuel was clear as water, and had none of the additives.   I ended up with about a pint of very red fairly heavy liquid, and three and a half quarts of beautiful fuel from a gallon of gas.  It was as easy as falling off a log, and took little time or energy to distill.  My friends and I used many gallons of this fuel, and it was superior in most ways to Coleman fuel, and for some reason cleaner than white gas had been, in that cleaning jets was not as common, nor did it clog generators with buildup as white gas did over time. 
     My first foray into distillation was a success, and encouraged me to try other similar projects.   Most folks seemed horrified that I was boiling gasoline, even though I explained to them that this was exactly what a refinery did, in fact I could, using the thermometer that went through a hole in the top of the pressure cooker, determine when each fraction came off and had a pretty good idea of what they were.   The thermometer told me when to stop, just as it does when distilling alcohol (for motor fuel of course ;-).     The pressure cooker of course was not necessary, it just was convenient as the top came off, and it had a good seal so my vapor went where I wanted it to go.   A simple solar still could be built that would be light weight and easy to build, though I haven't done that....yet.   

    A common complaint with foreign voyaging into remote areas is difficulty getting your propane bottles filled, or getting alcohol for an alcohol stove.  Some foreign propane bottles use different connections I've heard.   The advantage of being able to buy only one fuel at the fuel dock, and store that fuel in lightweight cans instead of heavy bottles that need to be vented overboard is both convenience when ashore, and cost.   Explaining to customs why you have a still on board might be a bit of a challenge though.    It's commonly held that these kinds of cook stoves are inherently unsafe, and insurance companies have some pretty inflexible ideas.   They have many strange ideas about what is and is not safe.   

                                                   H.W.

Offline CharlieJ

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4256
  • kARRR-ma: +217/-0
Re: gas stoves
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2017, 08:33:51 PM »
Not below decks on my boat. I use a Kerosene stove and always have. When I lived aboard, had a three burner with oven. On my 21 footer I had a different one burner. Now I have an antique kero stove from England- brass and survived the "melt brass for artillery shells" from WWII.

Decent kero is rarely available anymore like it was when My grandmother cooked on kero. Then it was water white. So I use 100% Mineral Spirits Available anywhere cause paint gets thinned with it all over.

I have two alcohol stoves stored in shop, take outs from older boats I've re worked. Dinosaurs now. Alcohol is THE most expensive fuel you can use for long term cruising. In the Bahamas, in 2010,  a gallon of stove alcohol was $30 !!

Pics are the old single burner on the 21 foot boot, in use in the cockpit, and my current stove on Tehani and in use offshore
Charlie J
Sailing on S/V Tehani
Meridian 25

On Matagorda Bay
On the Redneck Riviera

Offline KindaSorta

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • kARRR-ma: +1/-0
Re: gas stoves
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2017, 02:16:05 PM »
Well, I had one of those Coleman stoves, but replaced it with a propane one, and don't take that one on the boat. I have a nice stainless butane stove for the Com-Pac. It uses canisters I buy at the Chinese grocery store, because, well, I guess they are popular there and the canisters are cheap.

I have a Jet Boil backpacker stove that the PO used on the WindRider; I guess I might try it some time if I do need to cook while on a trip with that boat.


Offline Owly055

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 291
  • kARRR-ma: +8/-0
Re: gas stoves
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2017, 09:55:35 AM »
     I'm really not talking about something that bears much resemblance to  the gas stoves we are used to like the old green Coleman stoves.   The tank would not be anywhere near the stove, probably being stored similarly to a propane tank....in a locker with an overboard drain.   You would not be slopping liquid gas around inside the cabin.  Pressurizing would be done at the remote tank with a few strokes similar to what is done with one of those plastic hand held garden sprayers, and the supply to the stove would be via good copper line well routed and anchored.  Probably safer than propane routed into the galley.   Considering the fact that people have inboard gas engines, and outboards, and we handle gasoline all the time, I find it difficult to understand the fear of this concept as compared to propane.    The stove would be slightly less convenient to operate.... pump up pressure at the tank if it didn't have pressure, light it to heat the generator to warm things before you can get a proper flame, then it is pretty much exactly like propane.   

                                                                                       H.W.

Offline misfits

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 164
  • kARRR-ma: +9/-0
Re: gas stoves
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2018, 03:17:38 PM »
Speaking of stoves, anyone had any experience with the propane 2 burner gimbaled stove from Eno? I kind of like the idea of it being gimbaled instead of one that's mounted flush in the counter.

Last month's Good Old Boat had an article of installing one of those Camp Chef 2 burner stoves with oven. At $250.00, thinking about it...

I'm not happy unless I'm complaining about something.
I'm having a very good day!

Offline Godot

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1031
  • kARRR-ma: +105/-1
  • The horizon beckons
    • Bayfield 29 "Seeker"
Re: gas stoves
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2018, 09:32:16 AM »
Speaking of stoves, anyone had any experience with the propane 2 burner gimbaled stove from Eno? I kind of like the idea of it being gimbaled instead of one that's mounted flush in the counter.


I've been thinking about replacing my cold, old, fixed propane cooktop with one of those when I redo the galley sometime in the next year or two. Looks good to me. I'm not committed yet, though. I'm thinking an oven ($$$) might be nice. But then, I hardly use the oven at home, so maybe not a big deal, especially given the extra work involved in setting the galley up for it.

I'm also considering going Origo (Alcohol) for the simplicity. I'm not a big chef, so I'd probably be OK with that.

Adam
Bayfield 29 "Seeker"
Middle River, Chesapeake Bay

Offline CharlieJ

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4256
  • kARRR-ma: +217/-0
Re: gas stoves
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2018, 12:27:27 PM »
When I need an oven I use my pressure cooker, with the gasket removed.. You get round cakes or loaves of bread, but can bake potatoes nicely. Cruised for almost three years, full time using it. PLUS  you get a great cook pot with a locking lid:)

You do need to find a way too elevate the bread or cake pan up from bottom- I use a clay flower pot saucer turned upside down
Charlie J
Sailing on S/V Tehani
Meridian 25

On Matagorda Bay
On the Redneck Riviera

Offline Frank

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3184
  • kARRR-ma: +268/-0
  • Little boats...somewhere
Re: gas stoves
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2018, 12:58:34 PM »
That's the exact stove I have on Allure...
In hindsight I would have went drop in not gimballed...
Could have had a drawer under in the space.
God made small boats for younger boys and older men

Offline misfits

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 164
  • kARRR-ma: +9/-0
Re: gas stoves
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2018, 01:29:47 PM »
Good suggestion Charlie on using a pressure cooker.

Frank, How do you like the Eno?  Can you get a decent size pan on it?  Do the pot holders & gimbals actually work?

Godot,  I believe the Origo can also be set up with gimbals. If I go with the Eno I'll probably just run it off 1 pounders for the time being. 
I'm not happy unless I'm complaining about something.
I'm having a very good day!

Offline Frank

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3184
  • kARRR-ma: +268/-0
  • Little boats...somewhere
Re: gas stoves
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2018, 01:53:09 PM »
It actually works fine.
Left burner is smaller and uses far less propane so unless I'm boiling a big pot... I use it 95% of the time.
It does actually gimbal.... And can be "fixed" as well. Note: the plastic knob on the bolt to fix it in place from swinging will melt if a pot is too close and on high.
The pot holders do work.
It's not a huge stove but takes a decent pot. Better with the holders off for big pots or pans.
I've never needed the gimbal and wish it was a drop-in so the space beneath could be a drawer.
God made small boats for younger boys and older men

Offline Godot

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1031
  • kARRR-ma: +105/-1
  • The horizon beckons
    • Bayfield 29 "Seeker"
Re: gas stoves
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2018, 03:13:25 PM »
Well, I do desire a gimballed stove. I have hopes for some extended offshore trips in the future. In the meantime, I have used a Sea Cook (I think...or something similar) swinging stove at sea; but it is kind of in the way of the passageway and it scares me a little when trying to squeeze by it (or more usually, the wife, on the way to the head). Plus I'd hate to depend on those one pound propane canisters.

The one thing that kind of bothers me about a setup like yours, Frank, is that the stove is necessarily really low in order to be able to put the filler in place atop the stove. I'd prefer the stove top to be more or less level with the top of the counter; but then the gimbal arms would stick up above the counter by four inches or so which would look pretty weird and not allow the counter filler.

Possibly, instead of mounting the stove in a well it could just be bolted to the top of the counter. This would certainly simplify building the new galley and would allow drawer space underneath; but it would remove the possibility of having extra counter space.

I probably will not end up with an oven. I like the idea; but I doubt the cost/benefit ratio would work to my favor.
Adam
Bayfield 29 "Seeker"
Middle River, Chesapeake Bay

Offline CharlieJ

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4256
  • kARRR-ma: +217/-0
Re: gas stoves
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2018, 06:23:22 PM »
there were two  Swing stoves. The Sea Cook, which I have, and the Sea Swing, which mkay still be made. In my opinion it was the inferior of the two.. The pot holder was not as good, and the mounting sucked. It left a 2 inch metal rod sticking out when the stove was stowed, The Sea COOK left a flat plate that couldn't jam into you. Both were gimbaled

Here's my Sea Cook, mounted in the boat. I removed the propane mounting, modified the base, an mounted a true antique British kerosene stove in it's place. I've looked for another base for a long time, but all the ones I've found were priced WAY too high. I do have a spare burner

second pic is set so you can see the heel angle
Charlie J
Sailing on S/V Tehani
Meridian 25

On Matagorda Bay
On the Redneck Riviera

Offline Sunset

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 217
  • kARRR-ma: +13/-0
Re: gas stoves
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2018, 06:43:38 AM »
I put one of these on our Islander a year ago and love it. We don't live aboard but I spent over two months total on it last year. I buy the alcohol from Lowes at $15 a gallon, its worth the price of the fuel for the simplicity of use. We used two gallons last year for cooking, heating water for dish's and I heated the cabin one weekend with Charlie's flower pot idea.  https://www.defender.com/large/400400_l.jpg






















84 Islander 28

Offline Phantom Jim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 80
  • kARRR-ma: +8/-0
Re: gas stoves
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2018, 07:40:02 AM »
I found this at Hamilton Marine in Maine and it looks adequate enough.  The Sea Cook and Sea Swing are available at boat junk places.  The alcohol and kerosene burners to go with the Sea Swing are tough to find in my experience.

One could create a gimbled platform with some ingenuity.

https://shop.hamiltonmarine.com/products/portable-stove-butane-propane-w-electronic-ignition-44893.html
Phantom Jim

Offline CharlieJ

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4256
  • kARRR-ma: +217/-0
Re: gas stoves
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2018, 09:27:38 AM »
I have one of those butane stoves- Never leave the can in the stove, and store it in the plastic case.. The butane leaks a tiny bit and turns the plastic to junk- just crumbles to the touch

The kerosene burners such as I have are available in several places The one I use is base-camp.co.uk   but there are others
Charlie J
Sailing on S/V Tehani
Meridian 25

On Matagorda Bay
On the Redneck Riviera

Offline Frank

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3184
  • kARRR-ma: +268/-0
  • Little boats...somewhere
Re: gas stoves
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2018, 09:57:36 AM »
Took this pic after coffee today
Shows pot sizes on the Eno
God made small boats for younger boys and older men

Offline misfits

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 164
  • kARRR-ma: +9/-0
Re: gas stoves
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2018, 10:35:47 AM »
I see what you mean Frank about losing a drawer. The way the stove is installed gimbals wouldn't provide any relief for the side to side rocking motion. My old Kenyon was flush mounted in the counter. I don't believe there is 10" of drop between the counter & top of drawer below to accommodate the Eno gimbal on my boat.

Sunset, guess I need to download some data on that Origo with gimbal & see if that work.
Worst case, I got a coleman 2 burner propane stove that I know would fit between bottom of counter & top of drawer. Just wouldn't be gimbaled.

Thanks all!
« Last Edit: February 04, 2018, 10:50:32 AM by misfits »
I'm not happy unless I'm complaining about something.
I'm having a very good day!

Offline Godot

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1031
  • kARRR-ma: +105/-1
  • The horizon beckons
    • Bayfield 29 "Seeker"
Re: gas stoves
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2018, 07:20:40 AM »
On my old Seafarer that was the style I used. It was great. Very hot, though, and tough to turn down. Great for boiling water; but not so great for simmering or making eggs or something. I did eventually get a heat diffuser which helped.

I still have one floating around somewhere, along with a dozen or so canisters.
Adam
Bayfield 29 "Seeker"
Middle River, Chesapeake Bay

Offline Phantom Jim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 80
  • kARRR-ma: +8/-0
Re: gas stoves
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2018, 07:37:44 AM »
I found the single burner stove from Hamilton Marine interesting because it uses butane and propane.  I do not have one, but it seems like a pretty useful galley stove because you can turn off the propane with a valve.

I think the sea swing type cookers using alcohol/kerosene are pretty ideal because the fuel can be bulk stored.  Single one pound bottles of propane seem wasteful, bulky and dangerous if stored inside the boat.
Phantom Jim

Offline CapnK

  • Chief Bottle Washer and Ball Thrower
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3432
  • kARRR-ma: +250/-9
  • ARRH!!!
Re: gas stoves
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2018, 08:53:57 AM »
Those one burners like PJim posted sure do cook up food/water fast. My concern with them if/when traveling is running out of the cans - although now you can buy them at great prices from Amazon in case lots, and I guess have them shipped to youjust about anywhere. Interesting that that model does dual-fuel, I guess that unlike CNG, butane and propane can use the same jet.
http://sailfar.net
Living aboard A-30 #429, currently named "Sundance".