Anchors and Rodes

[s/v necessity]

Yeah, I'm gonna do this.  It's been too freaking quiet around here.  Too friendly.  And I haven't been kicked out of anywhere in over a decade.

Seriously though...  We got folks here with SMALL sailboats who have traveled distances.  And I just dont see how three oversized anchors and three sets of all chain rode is gonna fly.  You guys must be making some serious compromises...  So come on, fess up!!!  Your boat is already dangerously small, you might as well admit your ground tackle game is negligent too!

Last summer I sailed the better part of 2 months on lake superior with just a Primary consisting of 30' chain and 120' of nylon rode that came with the boat and a #25 Manson supreme I added.  My secondary was a pathetic danforth copy with 3' of chain and some light nylon line.  (also came with the boat.)  I don't have an anchor roller or anything up front, so I had to go flake out my rode and lash my anchor to the pulpit in advance.  And to retrieve it I had to lean overboard and haul straight up by hand.  We weathered all storms out at the marina  (C&C 27, 5500# boat 27' loa).  Once when we left an anchorage in a hurry I developed cramps in both forearms.  Im going to go ahead and assign a marginal score to my marginal arrangement.

This season I would like to up my game a bit.  I'm probably going to go with 60' of chain and 165' of Plaited 8-Strand.  And I might swap my 33# spade in place of the Manson.  If I do this I'll need to add a roller up front for retrieval and find a way to stow the anchor on deck.  I'm reluctant to run the spade because 1) It weighs more 2) It costs a bunch more, and getting an anchor stuck under a log is a thing... 3) The Manson has been rock solid so far

And then to decide what to do about a secondary...  It's not a big boat, and I'm trying to be as minimalistic ***as reasonable***.  Current plan is something along the lines of a #20 stern anchor with a compact rope rode.

[wolverine]

My Compac 19 has a 12# danforth with 30' of 5/16" chain and 150' of 3/8" rode. It's dragged a few times too many so I also have a 33# bruce with 30' of 3/8" chain and 150' of 1/2" rode. Last year at the Florida 120, I was anchored in 9' of water with all 30' of chain and 40' of rode out. We encountered 53mph winds overnight and the shaft of the danforth bent 30* and I ended up on shore. I had forgot the bruce at home.
the proper ground tackle can save a trip and a boat in bad situations.
My Orion (27') has 100' of 1/2" chain and 200' of 3/4" rode.  Retrieving it is a workout and I'm getting too old, so later this year I'm getting a windless.   

[Frank]

That dreaded Anchor talk. Much like politics and religion. 😄
I do not have insurance on my boat
The best insurance when cruising is good ground tackle
Déjà vu is 24 feet long and about 4500 pounds with gear.
Primary Anchor is a rocna Vulcan 27 pound with 50 feet of chain and 150 feet of rode. This lives on a bow roller.
Secondary Anchor, which lives in the Anchor well, is a 22 pound delta with 25 feet of chain and 100 feet of road.
Both are oversized, and I could probably anchor securely on something lighter
That said, when it's blowing 25+ and gusting 35+ it's nice to know you have something down like that.

[CapnK]

LOL for travel on Katie I have a 25# Manson Boss (HUGE flukes on that thing!), 22# Delta, 17# Mantus, Fortress FX-11, and a cast iron Folding Northill 3-R. The Boss (as the storm primary) lives in the top of the bilge under companionway, nestled with either the Delta or the Mantus, whichever is not serving as the bower. The Fortress and Northill are both stowed "flat" against the hull up in the bow chain locker area. The Northill, when motoring any distance, lives aft and "ready-to-pitch" on a moments notice.

For rode, there's 250' chain in 4 sections (2x ~30'ish, 1x ~80'ish, and a single 100' piece), and lotsa 3-strand, 300'+ in sections. In reserve, 2 spools of 3/8" that are several hundred feet each; 600' IIRC.

Overkill? Hardly. Maybe if I added in that 33# Original Bruce... I have 2 of those. And the 45# "Oh poop!" Spade ;D and a 'new this past year' 44# Delta... :)

Keep in mind, I wind up anchoring out for at least 2 named storms every year, at least two boats, and even three for several years (and had another Original and a 25# CQR as well...). I've lost IIRC 3-4 anchors during these, over the last 20 years.

Connie, AKA "Pixie Dust" here many years ago, told me that she and Croc were on the way back up to the Bahamas from Venezuela when they had to pull in and anchor for a 'cane. They were on a ~50 boat, and even tho' in fairly good shelter put out *7* anchors. During the storm, all the rodes except one parted. They had the anchors buoyed and were able to recover them, but still...

I will always travel with way more anchors than most. In addition to that they can't help if you don't have them with you, I kinda figure that out where you really need them, they might be hard to get if you lose one or two.

[s/v necessity]

Anyone got any ideas on what I can do for keeping my primary up front? Best I have been able to figure out so far is to just rig a simple roller, so retrieval is easier, and then lash the anchor to the siderail, or the cleat.  So far I've been carrying it back to the cockpit locker.

I might be able to move the navigation lights up onto the pulpit and be able to shoe horn something in there, but it'll be tight.  And I'm reluctant to start cutting up the bow fitting.  I know others have dealt with this by having a custom bow fitting made and installed.

I have thought that mounting it at the stern might be the way to go...  Not sure how that would work out though. I would think that retrieval might be more difficult, or atleast I'm not sure how I feel about dragging the boat backwards towards the anchor and then being pointed the wrong way (assuming a lee shore)

Oh and thanks for the discussion, I'll be running the #33 anchor up front, perhaps the #25 manson can be a secondary.

[CapnK]

You're right - not much room there!

Maybe make a platform that sits *over* the lights and cleats, on which to mount a roller?

[Godot]

Oh, me, pick me!

I am not currently going far afield, and I do not anchor out in any named storms (my marina is in a hurricane hole and seems as good a place a any to keep the boat in a storm).

Primary: Rocna 10 (22#) with 90' of 1/4 chain and I THINK 200' of 1/2" platt rode. I've ridden out a full gale on this over a sleepless night without budging. It seems pretty solid for my needs at the moment.

Kedge: A small Fortress (maybe the FX7 or perhaps the FX11). I have maybe 15' of 1/4" chain and a 100' of three strand rode. I used it to kedge off once. I sometimes take it in the dinghy.

Secondary: Some Danforth knockoff I have jammed in a locker. It came with the boat. Probably 10-15' of 5/8" chain and maybe a hundred feet of rough and tough seen better days 3-strand something. If I am breaking this out I can tie any of a number of other lengths of line to extend it further. I hate this anchor. I dragged all over until I got the Rocna on this stupid thing.

Some day (I love you tomorrow...always a day away) when I take a more significant trip, my plan is to up to the next size Rocna or Manson Supreme or whatever modern generation anchor is most affordable at that time, on 100' or so of 5/16" chain and maybe 200' again of 5/8" rode and take the current Rocna and rode and keep it as the secondary. That's the plan, anyhow.

[Kettlewell]

Everyone today, including myself, carries around very heavy anchoring gear, including big anchors, lots of chain, and often big windlasses to pull it all up. If you ever spy one in a flea market grab one of the old pamphlets put out by the makers of Danforth anchors. One is called Anchors and Anchoring, by R.D. (Danforth) Ogg. They include lots of interesting information on how Danforths were developed, tested, and used. They underwent much more rigorous testing than most modern anchors. In any case, it proposes using "The Ogg Method" of anchoring, utilizing two lightweight Danforths with maybe 6 feet of chain and the rest lightweight nylon, usually no bigger than 1/2" The anchors are deployed in a Bahamian moor pattern. In this manner Ogg anchored his 64-foot PT-type stinkpot with two 12# Danforths, often including raft ups. My two secondary anchors onboard are Fortress FX 23s and they have occasionally had to hold the big boat in some big blows, and they are certainly capable. In any case, a different solution to anchoring than everyone uses today.

[Frank]

I agree with the concept.
In practice, with a boat hunting side to side as they typically do in a blow, my only concern would be if one anchor drug.....
Two rode's tangled can be a mess...
But yes, a lighter weight alternative for sure!

[Kettlewell]

Sounds funky, but I have seen people rig a snatch block hanging from the bow pulpit that can take the anchor line to allow you to stand back further on the deck to put your legs and back into hauling on the anchor line. Obviously wouldn't work too well with the chain unless you got a really big block, and the pulpit has to be strong enough. Those C&C bows are crowded, so hard to fit the roller on there. Another somewhat funky looking option is to put the roller off to one side of the bow a bit. Old sailing ships would haul the anchor using a cathead off to one side of the bow. Google it.