Last time I repainted my decks I decided to stop giving Interlux lots of money for their anti-skid paint additive. It had not worked the last two times, and the price was even higher.. so I went to the beach.
I got a half of a bucket full of sand. I took it home and rinsed it out with fresh water.. a lot of fresh water.
I took it out of the bucket and poured it into cookie pans. I left it in the sun to dry all day.
I stripped the decks, did some minor repairs and masked off where I did not want non-skid. I rolled a thin layer of epoxy on , and then poured sand until the epoxy did not show through any more.
The next day I swept off the excess sand. I washed it all down and scrubbed it lightly with a brush. After it dried I rolled on a couple coats of paint... the result was nearly perfect.
The 'sand in paint' trick has been around for years, but the problem is the sand tends to break out and cause the paint to fail. The sand in epoxy under the paint has held up wonderfully well. I did this 2 years ago now, and the paint could use another coat.. especially on the foredeck where the ground tackle has accelerated the wear.
We lived aboard and cruised with this coating, and never wore shoes. Good traction, but not too harsh. Lasted much longer then the additive, and worked much better too.
Thanks very much. I will be doing my top decks at some point this summer and was considering my options. The epoxy holding the sand sounds like the trick.
Do you think this application would work as well in the head?
Quote from: Greenman on January 06, 2010, 10:53:10 AM
Thanks very much. I will be doing my top decks at some point this summer and was considering my options. The epoxy holding the sand sounds like the trick.
Do you think this application would work as well in the head?
Yes, I would think so. The nice thing about this method is that you can control the amount of 'grip' in the surface by using more or less paint over the sand. I would probably want 2 or maybe 3 coats of paint over the sand so it would be nice and easy to clean if I used it in the head.
Just a thought, where I used to live we had to make an access ramp, to make it non-skid I went to a local steel fabricators where I know they do grit blasting and got a small bucket of carborundum grit, used in high pressure sand blasting.
This is far harder than sand, and has no issues with contaminants, I applied it as has been mentioned above, and it lasted three years and was still going strong when I moved from the house, as a bonus it was given free.
I was going to sweep some up from the floor after they finished blasting but was worried about metal particles getting in which could possibly rust and look unsightly.
cheers max
During a tour of Mt. Vernon years ago, I remember they talked about the technique used by Geo. Washington to achiece a masonry look... basically the very same method, except they did several recoats... paint, then sand, then paint then sand again, until they got the look they wanted. I don't know if an additional step would increase the longevity or not... but sand being inexpensive, it sounds like a great idea!
Two points-
I have used the sand in epoxy, sand in paint, and sand in varnish, as mentioned, to good effect. In fact, the technique is shown in Bingham's "Sailor's Sketchbook".
However, I've beenusing model railroad ballast sand- the finest grade. It's pretty cheap,, is evenly screened and clean, so you can just sprinkle it on. I would lightly vacuum the surface, rather than brush though.
Having said that, on Tehani we have used Interlux Interdeck with very good results. It comes with the grit premixed and you just roll it on. Our first nonskid was a single coat and lasted almost three years before redoing, even up on the foredeck where the anchor chain bangs around.
I've heard rumours that the best "sand" to use is the fine, clear glass beads used for beadblasting.
the theory is that as the paint wears off of the top of the beads, they're transparent glass, so they just pass through the color of the paint underneath. the surface as it wears down gains a nice, almost 'reflective' surface, isntead of turning the color of the sand. I guess you could do the same by using white sand, assuming you're using white paint.
has anyone tried this? as soon as it gets warm I have to paint my boat, and I have a *lot* of deck surface (39' trimaran). I haven't ever done this before, and I really want to do it right, in a way that's going to last for a long time but also be easy to repair when I get the inevitable fiberglass 'zippers' that a wooden boat always seems to get...
The glass beads sound like the same item that is sprinkled onto wet traffic stripes to make them reflective. And in that application, they are the color of the paint. Should work the same.
i'd think that glare might be a problem with the glass beads.
Years ago, I mixed parakeet gravel into the paint for the deck of my wooden catboat.
It certainly worked as a nonskid, but I wore out a lot of swimming trunks that year.
--Joe
Beach sand is probably better than construction sand, as it tends to be less angular... :D
In the marina where I was berthed before leaving England are some hard working "Day Tripper" boats. They take holiday visitors on short runs along off the beaches. They make their decks non-slip by using in England we call 'roofing felt', the rolls of asphalt material of different grades of texture used on flat roofing.
The tripper boat owners cut it to shape and stick it down where the passengers walk. It is given several coats of deck paint to seal it and seems to last for ages, even with the constant stream of people boarding wearing ordinary street shoes. Cut neatly to fit round deck fittings etc: and painted, it's difficult to tell that it is not expensive 'non slip' decking from the chandlery and certainly wears well with all the people those boats carry in a summer season. After a few summers the owners peel it off and relay new sheets, then paint and seal it down.
Quote from: saxon on February 08, 2010, 04:30:09 AM
In the marina where I was berthed before leaving England are some hard working "Day Tripper" boats. They take holiday visitors on short runs along off the beaches. They make their decks non-slip by using in England we call 'roofing felt', the rolls of asphalt material of different grades of texture used on flat roofing.
The tripper boat owners cut it to shape and stick it down where the passengers walk. It is given several coats of deck paint to seal it and seems to last for ages, even with the constant stream of people boarding wearing ordinary street shoes. Cut neatly to fit round deck fittings etc: and painted, it's difficult to tell that it is not expensive 'non slip' decking from the chandlery and certainly wears well with all the people those boats carry in a summer season. After a few summers the owners peel it off and relay new sheets, then paint and seal it down.
That is brilliant. I can picture this on steel decks, and it is; weater proof, effective, and cheap.
Gotta love the ingenuity of the private industry. :)
Sadly, I do not think an inspected vessel in the US could get away with this. Maybe a 'T' boat, but I doubt it.
Not sure I would want this aboard Faith though... (I am thinking of tar on every bit of clothing I wear cruising (all 4).
Hello Haidan,
The material usually known as 'Roofing felt' in UK at one time was a bitumen based fabric which came in rolls of about 30 feet and various widths. Now it can be bought as a polyester based fabric which also comes in rolls and in different grades. 'Shed' grade is not a great deal thicker than your Tar paper. and usually has a top surface that feels like medium grade sandpaper.
The heavier grades used for flat roofs on dwellings is much thicker. maybe eigth of an inch and comes with a very course finish of mineral chippings ( I think that's their fancy word for tiny stone chippings) :D
The old style bitumen based stuff was always stuck down with bitumastic adhesives, I think they use a different type of adhesive with the polyester based material now.
http://www.wickes.co.uk/Roofing/Roofing-Felt/icat/rfroofingfelts
Hope that works.. ;D
Have a look at this website, page 1 of the site shows the heavier grade stuff. They call it 'Cap sheet' The lads with the tripper boats use the heavy grade felt, which is obviously water/weatherproof anyway. They cut it to shape, stick it down and then give it a few coats of paint which, A. Helps to seal it down and B. makes the 'chippings' on the surface less sharp to kids who may kneel on it perhaps.
I have to say, when it's laid properly and painted over it's not easy to tell that it's not something fancy from the chandlery
Hope this all makes sense.. regards Saxon.
I wondered if the current version of "tar paper" in the UK wasn't different than what we use here... your comment pretty much confirms it.
My initial reaction to the notion of sticking down roofing felt was "uck". Because I would be concerned the tar present in the material would have a tendency to migrate through other, adjacent materials.
I still like the sand method.
Question about the sand-in-epoxy non-skid technique:
Does the surface need to be taken down to bare glass for this to last? I have some places that that I've done this, but I DID take them to bare glass (because the paint was completely shot and had to go anyway), so I have gotten some practice with the basic technique.
But, I have some places that the paint remains "okay," especially when the very top is sanded down with some 80 or even 40 grit. Can I just epoxy over that paint, pour on the sand and call it good?
Or, would it be better to lose the paint completely? Must more work, of course, but if that's what it takes, I'm game.
You can just put the sand into a wet coat of paint, then re-coat over that with more paint. Don't know that I'd trust epoxy on top of paint, long term.
On Tehani we've gone to Interlux Interdeck. Nonskid comes already mixed. The nonskid on Tehani is mostly original, and was only a single coat. Foredeck BADLY needs redoing, after 5 years of anchor chains, and parts of the decks have been redone, but it's mostly still OK. I'll continue to use the stuff.
Oh- and for sand, I found model railroad ballast sand, finest grit. Cheaper than the "made for nonskid" stuff, and just as good. Got that idea from Bruce Bingham's Sailor's Sketchbook.
Get it in model stores-our Hobby Lobby used to have it,
Last year, I got a 50 lb bag of washed play sand from Lowes, and while maybe not 'ideal,' it seems okay. I like the finish of the two areas I've done and painted (both sides of the cabin top).
I guess I'll just take it down to bare glass, then...I want it all done the same way, so I'll stick with the epoxy.
The sand on Faith's deck was plane 'ole sifted beach sand from yer neck of the woods... I simply drove down to the New River inlet and filled up a bucket... washed it with the hose... sifted it in a strainer and dried it thoroughly.
The decks were sanded, but not necessarily down to bare fiberglass... pretty well prepped. The treatment was done in 2006 IIRC, there is a thread on here somewhere.
Holding up very very well. I rolled on epoxy, and then poured on sand until the epoxy was saturated... let set and then swept, hosed, and scrubbed the excess off. I did apply primer to the sand before I coated with paint.
The paint has worn off slightly up on the bow, but there has been no failure of the bond between the sand and the deck. We have been VERY happy with the properties of the epoxy / sand solution. Faith is a barefoot boat, and there have been no skin sacrificed because of this approach.
Even the foredeck where the anchor chain was handled most days on deck held up well.
Quote from: s/v Faith on April 18, 2011, 09:43:07 AM
The decks were sanded, but not necessarily down to bare fiberglass... pretty well prepped. The treatment was done in 2006 IIRC, there is a thread on here somewhere.
Holding up very very well.
Okay, I think I might try it. The places where the paint is worth NOT sanding off are small enough that I guess if I have to redo it at some later date, it's not that big of a deal.
Quote
I rolled on epoxy, and then poured on sand until the epoxy was saturated... let set and then swept, hosed, and scrubbed the excess off. I did apply primer to the sand before I coated with paint.
That's how I did it...brushed on the resin, not rolled, but basically the same. I used primer, too.
Quote
Faith is a barefoot boat, and there have been no skin sacrificed because of this approach.
This is my observation as well. It's amazing to me how much no-slip friction there is, yet NOT that hard on bare feet at all.
Incidentally, when I started all this, I was going to use Interdeck. My problem with it is one of scope and cost, coupled with the fact that the topcoat of paint we WANTED to use was Easypoxy rather (oh so picky on colors...for shame. ;D ).
So, we are painting non-non-skid areas in offwhite and the non-skid areas in sandstone. The combo looks a lot like Frank's boat in the pictures he posted recently.
Thanks for the input, guys. It's easy to get boat-repair paralysis when trying to chip away at the project list.
Ahoy Mates;
Here's a thot from a chronic "do-it-yourselfer" boat guy. Why couldn't you put canvas trimmed to the shape of the non-skid surface and soak it in latex paint. (I did that on the top of my pilothouse several years ago and it's still holding up well)
Hmmmmm...think I may do that sometime soon :)
Bob By the Sea
Recently relocated to Dunedin, Florida
Sherwin-Williams has a number of single part polyurethane enamels that would easily correspond to the "boat" enamels usually used for this kind of paint topcoat. I have been putting together a list of them, can post it if anyone likes...
at any rate, the plus for these kinds of items is they can be tinted (in the paint store) to any color that suits.
The drawback is that they would be a gallon purchase minimum. SW doesn't make their industrial/marine products in little cans.
I use the sand-in-wet paint, epoxy, varnish, etc etc trick all the time. Works great!
Only caveat, noted above, is that the sand MUST be CLEAN and Sifted.
I tend to use a small bag of "Play Sand" from Lowe's,. Home Depot, Ace, etc. It is already clean and sifted, and has one of my favorite qualities... relatively cheap!
What I most often do is to paint the overall area and let that dry/cure. Then, I tape off the intended non-skid area, then apply a coat of paint/varnish/whatever. Soon after application, I sprinkle on some sand, varying the amount of sand according to how aggressive a non-skid I want. My favorite "tool" for this is an old Pint paint can with some small holes punched in the top. An old (big) salt shaker works well too (just don't confuse salt and sand... confusion causes unpleasant surprises whether painting or eating :-\
It has become a habit for me to later overcoat at least once or twice (after brushing or vacuuming off the excess sand after the first coat drys).
FWIW: this also provides a nice, slight contrast in color even when using the same color as the base.
Sam,
Thanks for the verification. I am still very happy with mine... I like the sand in the epoxy since it has not broken down like sand in the paint does.
I used sand from onslow beach... washed and dried in the oven. Next coat will be from my local area here. Funny, I like the idea of the local sand being part of the boat.
I am weird with stuff like that. (well, maybe more then that). ;D
Tom, I would be interested in your list of SW coatings.
There's a product called "Restore" that you get at Lowe's or Home Despot that is an antiskid deck coating, water based. Looks to be not to dissimilar to KiwiGrip. It wears well on the decks here in MT. FWIW
Thanks for that heads up Leroy, I have used Kiwi Grip, but will have to get some of that "restore" to compare it before doing the Ariel's decks