Since I sail single handed and broke my collar bone last year, I am seriously contemplating installing an electric windlass with a remote from the cockpit. I know this is pricy, takes a lot of juice and v-berth space and goes against my KISS policy. But I think it will be a serious go/no go decision for me.
Any anyone give me suggestions on make/model, installation tips?
This is not going to be much help. You see my wife got me (us) a new Lewmar windlass two years ago for Christmas. At that time we were in Oxnard, Ca and sailed out to the Channel Islands a lot, always on a hook. Then we moved the boat south to Marina Del Rey and sail to Catalina where there are moorings so hench no real need for a windlass. It is still in the box awaiting my installation. I would offer it to you but my wife would kill me she still wants it installed.. Anyway one thing to be aware of is matching the windlass it to your size chain. Also I think it is better to install a battery in the bow (maybe under your V-berth) as a dedicated source. They pull a lot of juice. You will still need to connect to your alternator to keep it charged. This generally means running wires to the back to the boat where the engine is. Too bad they are sooo expensive but they do save your back not to mention if you need to make a hastey departure.
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This morning it looked so nice out I thought I'd leave it out.
S/V "Tina Marie" Cal 2-27
Would a manual windlass be a useful compromise? No hard drain on the batts, but it would require going f'rd. The mechanical advantage should be large enough to not strain your collar bone.
Captain Smollett,
I thought about a manual windlass briefly. I have a lot of windage with the Mac and I have a tendency to snug in too close to shore. I hope my days of scrambling for and aft as I am about to hit something dangerous are over. I finally got an auto helm ::). That helps :D. I would rather go the extra expense and loss of room below if I am going to do it. It's a great idea but I can look hilarious ;D.
Wow, I was just going to ask if there was a manual Windlass. Other than the going forward part seems like a good fill-in.
I think I'll look into that for myself....any leads?
OK here is my take. #1 the battery need to be as close to its charging source as it can be. Amperage loss over distance would make it hard to charge if were in the bow. Most of my rode is rope. If I need to I can pull most of it in using a winch in the cockpit. I do have a manual windlass but seldom have had occation to actually crank it. Yes it would be nice to control an electric windlass from the cockpit but it would require an all chain anchoring system. Otherwise who is going to keep tention on the capstan and rope. Can you keep that much chain in the bow of your McGregor ? + a battery and windlass. Just a thought.
Quote from: Jack Tar on December 31, 2005, 01:52:36 PM
Yes it would be nice to control an electric windlass from the cockpit but it would require an all chain anchoring system. Otherwise who is going to keep tention on the capstan and rope.
I must be missing something, but why do you need all-chain to have a windlass? WM sells a bunch of windlasses that are for rope and chain.
As for manual windlasses listed in WM, the Anchorman Low Profile is listed for $649.99, can pull 550 lb, mechanical advantage of 5.5:1 and hauls 1.8 ft per revolution.
The electric ones draw 15-85 AMPS!! :o (what battery can stand having a load of 85 AMPS? That one is listed for boats 30-45 ft, so it's not like it is for monster craft).
All Chain ? All I know is when I use the windless with the Rope seaction of rode I have to be there at the windlass to keep tension on the capstan and rode. All chain you dont have to be up there if you dont want as the chain is captive in the dogs of the chain capstan.
Quote from: Jack Tar on December 31, 2005, 01:52:36 PM
OK here is my take. #1 the battery need to be as close to its charging source as it can be. Amperage loss over distance would make it hard to charge if were in the bow.
Hmm Jack, Actually you want the battery as close to the windlass as possible as the windlass amperage draw is much greater, so you want the cable run from the battery to the windlass as short as possible,
Charging doesn't take as much current so you can get away with a long charging run if you oversize the wiring a bit. Up one size should work fine in most cases.
Also you don't really lose amperage, if anything, it prolly increase. What is lost is voltage. There is a voltage drop over distance. How serious the voltage drop is depends on how much amperage is being carried and the length/size of the wiring.
This maybe silly but...
what about a BOAT TRAILER WINCH mounted on deck as a manual anchor winch?
Zen, I saw an article about one that was used for a cargo boom. It was attached to a 1 1/2 " piece of stainless L shaped tubing, line ran to block and tackle. Tube was attached to stern rail with hose clamps.
I would be curious to know if they could be used for anchor winching too.??? Anxious to see what others think.
I know that some of you will know what it means to "sweat" a halyard, you can use the same technique to get your boat up over the hook without wearing out your arms and back.
Sweating a halyard is what you do to get it up those last few difficult inches when hoisting by hand. You get the sail up as far as possible by plain old pulling, then take a half turn around a cleat, or a turn around the halyard winch. Holding the bitter end of the halyard in one hand, grab the halyard above the cleat/winch, and pull out sharply 90 degrees from the mast. Pull in the extra halyard you gain with your bitter end hand as you ease the other hand back towards the mast. This 90 degree pull gives you a great mechanical advantage, and will get the sail up that last little bit. I can sweat my foresail up high enough that I almost don't need to use the winch.
You can do the same thing with your anchor rode, its especially easy to do if it leads over a bow roller. Take the rode aft around whatever big cleat you have on the foredeck, and then do the same with it as you would with a halyard, pulling up on the rode at a point mid way between the roller and the cleat. The mechanical advantage you gain will get the boat up to the anchor with a lot less effort than if you do a straight pull. Then just let the boat trip the anchor up, and all you have to do is hoist it aboard.
Probably everyone knows this technique already, but I thought I'd post it in case someone didn't. For them - I hope this helps. :)
New to me thanks!!
First off, a electric windlass is a very important tool ..When u need to get u'r boat outta there quickly u need an electric windlass or a knife! I use one on TPIII, First Born is a hand job..I am opposed to manual winches, because when u'r hook is out it jus takes too long to bring it up on deck and a lot can happen in that time.
I would put a chain anchor windlass on deck and run oversized
wire to it from a battery which was close to the charging location..I would put a solenoid in the system so u could handle the anchor forward if u chose to do that..My winch has both a cat head and a nigger head on it so I have options and it was expensive..
In your placer, I'd probably chose a winch which would handle 1/4" hi test chain..,..Good luck on u'r choices, the decision to use a electric winch is a sound one..
geneWj ;)
This one is similar to what I use on my 36 footer (for sale BTW). The gypsy works with both rope and chain with the right kind of splice.
http://www.imtra.com/product/anchoring_systems/lofrans/lofrans_vertical_electric_windlasses/marlin_low_profile_500w/lw6903lp.htm
Don't let the list price throw you. I bought them from Imtra's Ebay site. They sell any that are returned from boatbuilders for even minor complaints. They refurbish them if needed. I got mine for less than half retail and i could not find a flaw.
Quote from: The Edge on December 29, 2005, 08:41:54 AM
Since I sail single handed and broke my collar bone last year, I am seriously contemplating installing an electric windlass with a remote from the cockpit. I know this is pricy, takes a lot of juice and v-berth space and goes against my KISS policy. But I think it will be a serious go/no go decision for me.
Any anyone give me suggestions on make/model, installation tips?
Sarah,
In order to keep the windlass from intruding on the interior of my forward cabin (V-berth area) I selected a horizontal windlass, at the time the Simpson Lawrence Horizon 500. Simpson Lawrence is now apparently Lewmar and the current model is the 600:
(http://en.lewmar.com/products/index.aspx?lang=1&template_id=1&page_id=10&sub1=59&sub2=184 (http://en.lewmar.com/products/index.aspx?lang=1&template_id=1&page_id=10&sub1=59&sub2=184)).
The main thing to consider when selecting a windlass it the total load you will need to lift (rode/chain/anchor). At the time the SL 500 was the ticket and available on eBay for a good price.
Here's a link to the Horizon 600 installation manual. It's a .pdf inside a .zip file. I thought it might help you see how things install and what is involved.
http://en.lewmar.com/support/PDF/horizon600_900.zip
If memory serves, West Marine had a good article on windlass selection in their catalog. Also Sailnet has some good windlass articles. Here's the link to them:
http://www.sailnet.com/search/results.cfm?criteria=windlass
Good info, Garry and Joe - Thanks! I'm sure Sarah will be glad to see that when (if) she comes back... ;)
I be talkin' to a ghost! It be bad luck to be talkin' to a ghost!
AArrrrrrrgggggg!!!
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c245/pyrat/Pirates/d8b7c8acf8.jpg)
electric..... ARRR. I dont know about the rest of you but I always have electrical problems. Theres something about salt water and electricity that dose not get along...My last boat I installed a horizontal rope/chain windlass (craigs list $80)This was the best piece of equipment I have ever owned. 5 to 1 ratio made pulling up my 44# anchor a snap. It was easyier to turn than running my main up. and it was the size of a small winch and did not penitrate the deck. The boat I have now has a very big clumpy chain/rope verticle windlass that is far less in ease of use but could pull my boat off a reef if needed. Tomarrow I will find out what type of windlass I bought last year and post that for your research. As in all my conversations with others I always sugest keeping your electrical as simple as possible. And the more that can fail... will!!!
Cheers
D
Kingfish's statement about electrics going south reminded me of a video segment I saw once on bring up your anchor when the electric windlass dies. It assumed you had a heavy anchor/chain/rode and couldn't just muscle it up.
You are required you have a couple of lengths of line which will reach from your main winches to the bow. Each of these is equipped on one end with a standard chain hook.
If you have a chain rode, you hook the chain hook onto your rode and use one of your winches (port or starboard) to winch in the rode along the corresponding sides deck. You then attach the other line/hook and bring in the rode along the other side. You then disconnect the previous side and repeat, repeating the procedure until you have the anchor ab.
If you do not have a chain rode, use a rolling hitch to attach to the rode.
Rolling Hitch: (http://www.tollesburysc.co.uk/Knots/Rolling_hitch.gif)
Kingfish- I for one am EXTREMELY interested in the brand of your windlass. I can't seem to find even a manual one for anywhere near that price.
Wouldn't have an electric aboard- too much hassle on a small boat like ours.
Quote from: Joe Pyrat on January 20, 2006, 11:52:33 AM
You are required you have a couple of lengths of line which will reach from your main winches to the bow. Each of these is equipped on one end with a standard chain hook.
Rolling Hitch: (http://www.tollesburysc.co.uk/Knots/Rolling_hitch.gif)
Thanks for this info. I have been thinking out something similar to this method inmy head for next time I have difficulty getting anchor up in less than perfect conditions, but I was just thinking of 1 line. The 2 line idea is perfect! I now have a plan!
Thanks for sharing. ;)
I was trying to post a pic of the windlass, but... Thank god I am a better sailor that computer guy, The windlass I was talking about is a simpson lawrence. The new model is called "anchorman" I think. They are very low profile. I accepts rope in the center of the drum and has chain grabbers around that. You use a typical winch handel to opporate. It mounts on top the deck with bolts though, and a recomended backing plate.(//)
Cheers
D
Kingfish,
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c245/pyrat/useofimgcommand.jpg)
You will notice I posted the above text as a graphic. This is because that the img command embedded in this text would be treated as a command and not display the syntax of what I was trying to describe.
If you need any additional help, PM me.
Joe is right, that's how ya do it.
BTW, Joe - if you want to post some code without it being acted upon, you can use the button above the text box that looks like a piece of paper with a # sign on it. It'll render into your post like so:
[img]http://joesboat.net/joe.jpg[/img]
Coolness, eh? :)
Thanks Cap, that's good to know. Good karma on ya'. ;)
Hi Sarah - knowing your boat , I suggest you keep two batteries , one aft and one forward - for balance (obvoiusly near the COG) and then dont worry about power loss on either end. Not many of us know what a busted collar bone is like - good luck with the sparky bits...
Selecting a Windlass
from the CruisersForum.com
http://www.cruisersforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1475
See Also the graphics:
http://cruisersforum.com/photopost//showphoto.php?photo=1525
There are a number of important criteria to be considered in selecting the correct anchor windlass (winch). These include the vessel size, displacement, windage, anchor size and rode selection. Practicalities such as locker space and depth of fall for the rode also play a part in deciding which windlass is ideal for you.
Begin by examining the depth of the anchor locker to determine the amount of 'fall' available. The fall is the vertical distance between the top of the anchor locker and the top of the anchor rode, when it is completely stored inside the locker. This measurement is important in determining whether your boat will be best suited for a vertical or horizontal windlass.
FALL: Generally chain rodes require a minimum perpendicular fall of at least 12". This is measured from the centre of the gypsy for Horizontal windlass', and from the bottom of the locker deck for a Vertical windlass - hence a Vertical Windlass requires more cockpit locker depth.
When choosing a windlass, you face several choices. Electric or Manual, Vertical or Horizontal, what size windlass, chain size to be used, chain type, wire sizing, etc.
Manual vs Electric:
Manual vs Electric:
The advantages of a manual windlass include ease of installation, price, and less potential for things to go wrong. The advantages of an electric windlass are you don't have to use your muscles, they are quicker, and you are more likely to carry heavier ground tackle (as you don't have to lift it). Better electric windlasses have a manual operation option (in case of power failure).
Vertical vs Horizontal:
A vertical windlass has the chain gypsy and the rope capstan oriented at 90 degrees the deck, while a horizontal windlass has the gypsy and capstan parallel to the deck. Often the defining factor in choosing between vertical and horizontal is the number of anchors to be handled, the number of bow rollers, and how they line up. Often a boat with one bow roller on the center line will select a vertical windlass. A boat with two bow rollers might use a horizontal windlass.
Vertical
The advantage of a vertical windlass is its low profile, its motor and or gear box is usually under the deck (& out of the weather), and therefore the vertical units use less deck space (but use more locker space). They allow the anchor rode to come aboard at almost any horizontal angle, but the rode must enter at nearly 90 degrees to the axis of the drum. The anchor rode makes a 180 degree turn the gypsy , then a 90 down, falling into the anchor locker. They are generally harder and more costly to install and service.
Horizontal
The horizontal windlass generally offers the best performance with small or unusual locker designs. As the anchor rode enters the gypsy it makes a 90 degree turn and feeds directly down into the anchor locker. The advantages of a horizontal windlass are that they offered in a wider range of gypsy variations, are easier to install and service, and do not interfere with space in the anchor locker.
The disadvantages are that the anchor rode must travel in a direct line from the bow roller to the windlass (often necessitating the windlass to be mounted off center) which sometimes looks odd. They also take up considerably more deck space, and are totally exposed to the elements.
Size - Capacity:
The two things to consider are the Maximum Pull Capability and, the Working Load of the winch. Maximum pull (sometimes referred to as stall load) is the maximum short term or instantaneous pull of the winch. Working load is generally rated at about one third of the maximum pull, and is usually considered to be the load that the winch is pulling once the anchor is off the bottom. To determine your required maximum pull capability:
a) Maximum Pull = Total Weight of your ground tackle x 3 (or 4). Pick the nearest LARGER pulling power. The factor of three (or 4) covers the effects of windage and the speed of tidal current and includes a safety margin for unknown circumstances.
b) Use the manufacturer's recommendations.
Chain:
Your chain rode and windlass gypsy (wildcat) must be matched (size & type).
There are three main chain types generally available in the market place. One is Proof Coil, which is not suitable for windlass applications due to the long size of the links. The other two are BBB or Triple B and HT or High Test, which are both suitable for windlasses. I generally prefer HT because it is stronger (or lighter)(it has a higher capacity per diameter/weight - increase capacity or decrease weight/size). Make sure you buy chain that is hot dipped galvanized, and that is I.S.O. Standard Chain.
NOTE:
Windlasses are not designed to hold high loads while a boat is at anchor. When the windlass is not is use and the boat is at anchor, the anchor rode should be secured using a chain stopper, or attached (via a "snubber") to a load bearing fitting such as a cleat or bollard.
HTH,
Gord