So I've been looking at boats, trying to decide on one.
Looked at boats such as the wetsnail... oops I meant Westsail 32 and the likes, nice boats. problem with them is that they cannot sail upwind very well.
Looked at all the smaller boats, nice boats, but a bit to small for me.
Closest to ideal would be the Pearson 33 shoal draft.
A sailing friend bragged about his Scanmar 33 and invited us to his web page to check it out.
I like the interior layout! I especially liked how the designer placed the head right by the companionway. Which to me is a much more sensible location seeing how the person on watch need can use it without tracking salt allover the cabin. a plus is the large hanging lockers in there, ideal place to hang up your foulies and so on, reducing salt intrusions into the rest of the boat.
Drawback is the deep fin keel and the skeg mounted rudder. I kind of prefer the "modified full keel" (a full keel with the forward part cut out)
And another plus is the aft compartment with bed. I am one of those guys why prefer sleeping aft rather than the V compartment. I would either leave the "V" for guest, or turn it into a "garage".
So is there a boat with something like the following interior:
http://home.nycap.rr.com/bifurcated/Layout%20Labeled.html]
And a full keel with forefoot cutaway?
Changed hull type to a better hull reference
There is no such thing as a perfect boat... in the idea of the Platonic ideal any ways. There will be a boat that is perfect for you, but will not suit the needs of any one else as well as it does yours.
The perfect boat for anyone is one that they can:
a) Sail in the waters they want to sail in safety and comfort
b) afford to own and maintain
c) enjoy sailing and owning
For some, this is a 50' ketch with full bluewater capabilities, for others it is a 15' sharpie micro cruiser sailboat. Most people lie somewhere in between. For me, it is a boat named Pretty Gee, a 28' Telstar trimaran. :D
Doug, regarding the Scanmars -
There is one in my marina, a 31. I've sailed her, sailed against her, and had occasion to check out her systems and how she is built. Overall, a nice boat. One thing I didn't really like was the hull liner, though. It is put in in such a way that some of the plumbing and wiring runs between the liner and the hull, making things difficult to get at and/or inspect. Since water from outside the boat runs through this plumbing, that gets a big "no no" in my book.
The owner of that boat recently had a naval architect (designer of the Cape fear 38) come down and look the boat over with regard to beefing her up for offshore work. The NA said afterwards that in his opinion, she didn't really need any, since she had been built strongly enough from the outset that after 20-some years, she was still in fine shape.
Oh, and BTW, the perfect boat exists. It is an Ariel, and perhaps a Cape Dory 30 Cutter. ;) :D
You should look for a Pearson Vanguard (http://pearsoninfo.net/vanguard/vanguard.htm) - 32' LOA, Rhodes designed, very nice looking vessels.
(http://pearsoninfo.net/vanguard/sailplan.gif)
Hmm... CapnK, I think your boat bias is showing again.... ;)
Bias.....nope...Kurt simply has great taste in recognizing beauty AND seaworthiness ! Even Carl's lil electra ,at 22ft has 2 1-1/2 in drains,a proper bridge deck,straight drop boards,1000lbs of lead in her full keel(cutaway forfoot) and sails beautifully!! Did I mention 'pretty'....show me a nicer 22??? The ole Swede would simply NOT compromise
I found one that I liked, it's a Pearson 33.
Centerboard keel and all that
There's the newer P33-2 with an aft cabin and just about the ideal layout!
(http://sailfar.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10016/normal_33-2-1small.JPG)
If you look closely, you can see the faint outline that marks out where the centerboard model keel goes. the rudder is also a bit shorter but a bit wider as well.
I got the about from the http://pearsoninfo.net website. This cover all the Pearson boats, including yours Kurt!
Hmm gottta find me one I can afford, that or win the lottery...
A bigger image of the above is at: http://pearsoninfo.net/33-2/brochure/33-2-1.jpg
I guess she's a size up from the Alberg 30... ;)
Obviously, since I've also got an Alberg design, I've got to agree with Frank and Kurt that the ol' Swede knew his stuff.
But that Pearson looks like a lot of boat. However, if you're looking to buy a used one, be sure to have an expert (surveyor?) check out the centerboard pivot joint. That's a weak spot with most of these keel-centerboard boats.
Just a thought from another Alberg fan, who's spending more time online now that his own boat is stripped and waiting to get hauled.
--Joe
Quote from: CapnK on October 27, 2006, 09:21:59 AM
Oh, and BTW, the perfect boat exists. It is an Ariel, and perhaps a Cape Dory 30 Cutter. ;) :D
Sorry Cap, the perfect boat is the Pearson Triton. ;D
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c245/pyrat/Sailing/triton3.jpg)
Truthfully, no boat is ideal under all conditions and circumstances. They all entail compromises for various reasons. The Triton works great for me because she is stable, tough, easy to sail, and inexpensive to maintain. Of course you can say this about any Alberg design so it kind of comes down to how much space you can live with and how hard you are willing to work. I heard once that the sail handling effort doubled between a 30 footer and a 35, and since I ain't gettin' any younger... ;D
The other interesting thing I've found "for me" about the Triton is that every time I sail on a different boat I always seem to appreciate the handling of the Triton just a bit more. If there is a perfect boat for me, I do believe I've found her. :)
I'm surprised there were no comments or takers on the 'show me a nicer 22fter' pic of an Electra a few posts back.These lil boats sail VERY well and have been taken offshore.One very experienced sailor even was attempting a cape horn passage in one. He knew what he was doing...had done it once already in a similar small craft...but went missing (presumed sunk) when he sailed right into a hurricane off the coast of south america. They are a real pretty lil boat..typical of Alberg's earlier designs (lower freeboard than later ones) and quite fast. I've rescued one from the crusher with a 2sq. ft. hole in the keel and hope to have her restored/sailing by mid 07. I can't back out now as the new sails are made.
I hope your restoration goes well. :D
Was just reading a bit on Carl Alberg and with recent mention of IOR boats...I had to copy/paste this "Carl's own assessment agrees:
"Contrasted to the modern IOR boats where you have six gorillas sitting on the weather rail with their feet hanging outside trying to keep the boat upright, my boats are strictly family-cruising boats. In all my designs I go for comfortable accomodations and a boat you can sail upright without scaring the life out of your family or friends. I gave them a good long keel, plenty of displacement and beam, and a fair amount of sail area so they can move."
In 1979, while those modern boats were capsizing and sinking, an Alberg 35 on it's way to England comfortably lay a-hull.
"It was really blowing and though they shortened sails and did everything else they could in order to keep going, they eventually took everything off, went below, battened down the hatches and just ate, drank and played cards. When it had blown over they hoisted sail and continued to England, where they were told they had just sailed through the same gale that had taken 16 lives in the Fastnet race. They had ridden out the storm by just sitting in the cabin while everyone else was capsizing."
"There are still some designers around who whare my ideas about glass boat design. Everyone else is trying to conform to the new rules. My boats are more designed to follow the waves and stay relatively dry and stable."
Carl passed away on August 31, 1986 at his home in Marblehead Massachusetts. His 56 designs resulted in over 10,000 boats."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, Carl alberg is definitely one of my favorite monohull designers... :D and there is no argument from me that his boats are most seaworthy, especially considering that many are smaller designs, and can outsail many larger designs.
Frank - do you *really* need to see/hear ***me*** saying
"Yes, those Electra's are fine looking boats! Beeyootyful lines!!!" ;D
(My bias had already been noted... :D ;))
I bet that when you launch her next year, as with Revival/Journey, she'll be one of the finest of her kind. 8)
Bias?
What bias?
Capt K...I'll have my hands full !! Here's another shot of pick-up day.....standing water,rotten wood,cracked companionway hatch and boards,soft decks,no sails,no cushions and a 2ft hole in the keel...but heh.....WHAT"S NOT TO LOVE !!
Quote from: Frank on October 30, 2006, 07:58:15 PM
Capt K...I'll have my hands full !! Here's another shot of pick-up day.....standing water,rotten wood,cracked companionway hatch and boards,soft decks,no sails,no cushions and a 2ft hole in the keel...but heh.....WHAT"S NOT TO LOVE !!
Frank, I think you've got your work cut out for you...and there will be a lot of cutting, grind and scraping... :D
Uh Frank- does it look anything like this??
This is the main cabin of Tehani before we started on her-
(http://downloads.c-2.com/photos/1162260163.jpg)
and the same basic area of the boat now-
(http://downloads.c-2.com/photos/1162260370.jpg)
Cheer up- it all comes together in the end, and it's sure worth it.
:)
The main reason I took this boat on was all interior ply wood was rock solid.The bulkheads,bunks and floor are exellent.No ripping out and rebonding.Only stripping paint,a few mods,wiring,plumbing and re-paint inside.Not too bad. This lil guy even has a deep bilge with a built-in water tank!!......ps..guess what saved the interior from rot etc from standing water....come on guess...........that 2ft hole in the keel !!!!
CharlieJ-
darn nice job, I'm impressed.
Frank,
Looks like you've got a bit less work cut out for you than Charlie had...
Thank you sir- the lady in the pic installed all of that interior trim, after she varnished it all. Here's a later shot showing that aft bulhead ALMOST as it is now- The duct tape is gone replaced by real trim.
(http://downloads.c-2.com/photos/1162261180.jpg)
Quote from: CharlieJ on October 30, 2006, 11:09:47 PM
Thank you sir- the lady in the pic installed all of that interior trim, after she varnished it all. Here's a later shot showing that aft bulhead ALMOST as it is now- The duct tape is gone replaced by real trim.
I hope you married that woman...she does boat work and knows how to varnish...and I'm guessing likes boats and sailing. If you didn't, I'd have to question your intelligence. :D
Bet your buns I married her!! Took me a half century of looking to find her.
She can run any tool in the woodshop, she can twirl wrenches , she can varnish and run a spray gun, she's a helluvan artist
www.griffithart.com
and is a trophy winning singlehand dinghy racer. Loves to sail and is completely capable of single handing our Meridian 25 either inshore of offshore.
And she's easy to look at too ;D 5foot 2, eyes of blue, and about 110 pounds of her..
(http://downloads.c-2.com/photos/1162303663.jpg)
(http://downloads.c-2.com/photos/1162303824.jpg)
(http://downloads.c-2.com/photos/1162303948.jpg)
Charlie-
My only question—with qualifications like that...why'd she pick you. LOL ;)
Cause I'm pretty???? ;D
Actually, I ask myself that often. I told her that if she came with me she'd never have any money and would never be bored. She claims I was true to my word. ;D
But we've sure had fun the last 14 years!!
Charlie- If you really think you're pretty, you need to get a better respirator mask or stop sniffing the styrene fumes from the fiberglass resin. :D
"Charlie wrote :She can run any tool in the woodshop, she can twirl wrenches , she can varnish and run a spray gun, she's a helluvan artist
www.griffithart.com"
Charlie...does she have a sister ?? I can't complain...Judy really likes heavy weather...honest !! She's not much on bottom paint though :( Here's a pirated picture of Charlie out with his sweetie in the dingy ONLY JOKING !!!! funny pic tho
Frank-
That pretty much matches the picture I have of Charlie in my head. LOL. ;)
You wanna see a picture of a 65 year old guy?
Ok- I asked Laura which one I should post and she picked this one ;D
(http://downloads.c-2.com/photos/1162332599.jpg)
That's scarier than I could ever imagine... you sure that's not a costume you put on for Halloween??
Yes, it's nice to see that you saved her. Good work.
Frank - what a kewl lil boat! :) She'll be big fun when you get her done. I guess, since the Flicka was pretty much perfect, you needed something to do over the winter up there? :D
Or are you like CJ, making Judy do all the work while you run around taking pics and making Playgirl pictures? ;D
Judy has a great sence of adventure , so she likes sailing with me. She lacks my 'passion' for boats so also really lacks my passion for working on them. SOOooooo all grinder jobs etc. are strictly mine.She can't figure out what I see in these old boats.....to me they are 'art'....I could never figure out a 'picasso'....Guess I'm redneck
Frank-
I don't think rednecks sail much... at least not according to anything by Jeff Foxworthy... They're usually in Bass Boats.
Getting back to 'the perfect boat'................Although those 'deck shots' are heart stopping :o (nice band aid ;D) ..Much has already been written here about the virtues of the TRITON...design,motion,relative speed,seaworthyness,looks,shallow draft(relative to it's capabilities)and low price.Adam's voyages link is already posted and shows his mods.I was cleaning out my 'saved pictures' and came across these of a CHERRY triton with a stock interior that is mint.The head is to port behind the door...hanging locker across.The owner has new cushions and a simple 'snap on' cover to the anchor locker....the rest is as delivered 42yrs ago.NICE boats !!! ......did I mention it's an Alberg?? ;)
Alberg...what's an Alberg?? ;D
ya know- we kinda must be special down here. In my marina are tied up-
A Cape Dory 25
A Cape Dory 27
A Triton
An Alberg 30
and of course our Rhodes Meridian 25
How's THAT for classic plastic??
All boats mentioned (hats off to Rhodes) represent the obvious exquisite taste of their owners ::)
Very nice... Good selection..but do you know the vintages of the classics in question???
Hello All:
The perfect boat! The perfect spouse?
By observation, I find that narrower/heavier boats with V-shaped cross sections are more comfortable than wide/light boats with U-shaped cross sections. The conflict is that the good sea-boat is not so comfy at rest. Since a lot of cruising is really about being in one place for long times... sea-keeping takes a back seat in the selection process. Then... since sea going is uncomfortable, the sailors spend more time at anchor, etc. Death-spiral vortex of doom.
The long keel boats of Phil Rhodes, Carl Alberg, et al are well represented in this discussion and for good reason. Let's not overlook the second-generation of fiberglass designs. Many of the late 60s and early 70s designs by S&S, Mull, Bruce King, et all have fin keels and keg hung rudders. They are also darn good cruising designs.
Favorites of mine are the Tartan 30 and the Albin 30. Both are easily found on the yachtworld.com site. The advantage to the fin keel design is speed and weatherlyness under sail and maneuverability under power. (Crashing the dock!)
I have sailed both long keel and fin keel boats. It is a bit easier to get off the bottom with a long keel boat. Fin keel designs are a bit more fun to sail. Sturdy construction and a layout to match one's needs is really what matters.
Like spouses. If we wait for the perfect one to show up... we'll spend our lives alone.
Get a boat and go sailing.
Best, Norman
PS: The best small boat I ever sailed and cruised was a J-28. I cruised it extensively between the Chesepeake and Maine for almost ten years. Stunning sailor. Delightful at rest.
IIRC, the J28 was a fairly limited production run though...and as such is a relatively rare boat. ;)
Quote from: Norm on November 19, 2006, 08:26:35 AM
keg hung rudders.
Hmmm, you might be on to something there. THAT, good sir, is a marketing gold mine.
But Capn' Smollett...how do you get the tap in to the keg??? And do you have to pay a keg deposit?
Quote from: AdriftAtSea on November 19, 2006, 02:20:43 PM
But Capn' Smollett...how do you get the tap in to the keg???
Why, through the tiller of course. Makes perfect sense to me....
I take it you have a pipe tiller...rather than a less useful but more traditional laminated wooden one... ;)
Keg hung rudders! I said that? For a guy who forbids drinking while under way that's an accomplishment.
Sailors say the darnest things...
There were 71 J28s built. I know of one hull that was declared a constructive total loss after a NE storm. The boats are expensive but worth it 100%.
During today's long drive up to Portland I mused about this thread. I wonder if our boats ever discuss "the perfect owner?"
Best regards, Norman
Quote from: Norm on November 19, 2006, 06:59:51 PMDuring today's long drive up to Portland I mused about this thread. I wonder if our boats ever discuss "the perfect owner?"
I'm fairly certain that the CrewDogs have had that discussion... :D
Quote from: Norm on November 19, 2006, 06:59:51 PM
During today's long drive up to Portland I mused about this thread. I wonder if our boats ever discuss "the perfect owner?"
First off, I think we need to determine exactly who owns who... ;)
Yes, it is a good question, "who owns whom?" I posit that when the boat picks you out, it is the perfect boat.
(I wonder if... after reading all this stuff... a headshrinker might wonder about the sanity of sailors?)
Continuing on the topic of perfect boats... in practical terms: we have a thought that headroom may be overrated. Anyone have experience with low-headroom boats? Some of our thinking revolves around reaching handholds while heeling, the fact that so much time is spent on deck, and making adjustments to the interior that render the one stand-up task, cooking, more comfortable.
In my youth, my parents had an Irwin 27 that made the Florida to Maine round trip twice. We never noticed the 5ft 8in headroom... as being short... while under way. That was a live-aboard situation. Now, E and I are thinking lustful thoughts about a 33 foot Aphrodite 101. We like the high performance and fairly deep, narrow hull.
Our Beneteau adventure put us off wide shallow hulls forever.
Any feedback from Team SailFar?
Norm
Boston
Tehani now has 5'9" headroom in the main cabin. She originally had a bit less but when we rebuilt her interior I lowered the sole 1 inch. We are both shorter than that so it suits us just fine.
Our previous sailboat did NOT have stand up headroom anywhere. We found we could go about 2 weeks or thereabouts and we'd begin to feel the need to STAND UP.Of course it isn't really NEEDED but it's a huge psychological boost to be able to stand.
One of the BEST additions we made to the interior was a set of grabs on the underside of the cabin, each side of the companionway. We found that offshore those grabs were invaluable. I plan to install at least one and possibly two more somewhere around the main bulkhead leading to the fore cabin. Hand holds are VERY important in any kind of seaway. Without something solid to grab, you can get injured quite badly being flung around inside. Of course you can't get flung as far aboard Tehani as on some of the show room "marina queens" I see in boat shows which look to be horrible offshore.
Norm-
I hope you're just talking about wide, flat-bottomed monohulls... seeing how my boat is 18' wide and very shallow...my opinion may be a bit biased.
However, that said, I'm not a big fan of the modern, beamy, shallow designs... they're not comfortable in heavy seas. A multihull has a very different motion, even though it is wide and shallow draft, as it doesn't have the inertia that a Beneteau has, as it has no heavy keel.
Headroom is nice...and one of the reasons I went with the Telstar, rather than the Corsair F28, which has less than 4' 8" of headroom IIRC. Most of the people who sail with me and crew for me are over 6' tall...
BTW, is this the model (http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatFullDetails.jsp?boat_id=1295622&ybw=&units=Meters¤cy=GBP&access=Public&listing_id=74502&url=) that you're talking about? If so, I can see why you like her—she's a very pretty boat... and looks quite seaworthy as well.
I could enjoy traveling on our boat that did not have standing headroom for about ten days. Cooking and cleaning up afterwards is not as comfortable sitting down but that really didn't bother me. I got tired of feeling like I was living in a pup tent. I wanted to STAND UP to pull my britches up. ;D
Head room is a must for me! I'm so tired of standing up with my head sideway!
Hmm that leads to a question, but I'll start a new post on it later.
Quote from: Norm on December 09, 2006, 02:35:55 PM
Yes, it is a good question, "who owns whom?" .....
....... I was seduced.
;D
[Now, E and I are thinking lustful thoughts about a 33 foot Aphrodite 101. We like the high performance and fairly deep, narrow hull.]
Norm,
The 101 is a beautiful boat indeed. If you can get past the lack of standing head room, you may have picked a great cruiser.
Kevin
BTW- -Not the boat in the picture posted by Adrift. The 101 makes the 33 look a bit like a floating heifer.
Norm - my ex-boat was Com-Pac 23D, and she lacked headroom for my towering 5' 9" of height. ;)
My input on low headroom is that if you are going to spend any appreciable time aboard, make sure you can stand up straight, somewhere inside the cabin. It makes a *world* of difference!
Standing room is not at all overrated, even if it's only in a small area, like on my current boat (6' x 2' of sole with headroom, perhaps).
Thanks for clarifying that.. ;)
The Aphrodite 33 is not a bad looking boat, but compared to the 101...
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/photoGallery.jsp?type=%28Sail%29&sm=3&toLength=34&cit=true¤cyid=100&luom=126&fromLength=32&man=aphrodite&slim=quick&is=false&back=/core/listing/cache/searchResults.jsp;jsessionid=coPApgJZmN2-&boat_id=1569538
... it just doesn't have the lines. Those beautiful sleek lines do come at the cost of cabin accomodations however.
The Voyager 26 is pretty close to perfect
There was one on ebay last week
Iceman
I didnt remember how to post a link
It didnt meet reserve price..I saved it in my ebay..if anyone is interested
Ice :)
;D Private message me and Ill invite you all for drinks aboard the perfect boat
Ice
I have no idea if I have the perfect boat since I haven't had it long, but the S2 9.2C layout certainly looks a lot like what you posted. Really big head right by the companionway steps.
I thought that the perfect boat was one that got you there and back, etc..... All else is a compromise.
Umm... If the boat doesn't get you there and back, I don't know if you'll be around to complain... ;)
This is a fun topic.
I'm sure I suffer from the same addiction as most here..."daydreaming about boats"
That perfect boat thing changes to suit intended uses. Hows this for a list?
Shallow draft...gunk holing, shallow anchorages, easy trailering
3000lb max......easy trailering, mobility, lighter gear etc
min. 5ft headroom...change pants without being too contorted
seperate head....
outboard in a well....simple/easy
fairly fast.....fun factor
as seaworthy as a 3000lb boat can be...
traditional looks...
that would be my list....don't think one exists
Quote from: Frank on December 26, 2010, 12:50:57 PM
This is a fun topic.
I'm sure I suffer from the same addiction as most here..."daydreaming about boats"
That perfect boat thing changes to suit intended uses. Hows this for a list?
Shallow draft...gunk holing, shallow anchorages, easy trailering
3000lb max......easy trailering, mobility, lighter gear etc
min. 5ft headroom...change pants without being too contorted
seperate head....
outboard in a well....simple/easy
fairly fast.....fun factor
as seaworthy as a 3000lb boat can be...
traditional looks...
that would be my list....don't think one exists
That's a cool list for a good gen. purpose small boat.
Personally, I would sacrifice 'fairly fast...fun factor' and satisfy that with a separate, sporty' boat...something like a sun fish or a hobie....tool for the job kind of thing.
Ah, a Sunfish! ;D sweet memories...
used to have an old battered one as a toy. Bartered it against coffee and a couple cases of beer. :)
A real sailing machine, fun as few others. Very uncommon where I came from, hence the somewhat 'low' price tag on it. The PO didn't really know what it was.
Enough thread drift, I like Franks list of criteria too, but honestly - isn't the perfect boat the one we've got already?? since getting a new one always slows you down... ::) from a guy who's in the process of going through the 'check-list' and adding to the 'to-do list' on a new to me boat. ;) :o
Several multihulls come to mind. Cross 31, Wharram 30, etc.
Don't limit yourself to just one hull boats.
Quote from: maxiSwede on December 26, 2010, 03:55:58 PMEnough thread drift, I like Franks list of criteria too, but honestly - isn't the perfect boat the one we've got already?? since getting a new one always slows you down... ::) from a guy who's in the process of going through the 'check-list' and adding to the 'to-do list' on a new to me boat. ;) :o
Spoken like a man with experience. 8)
QuoteExperience is what enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again. -
Franklin P. Jones
;D