Hey pro's-
Any suggestion for a wind vane and outboard? Currently the outboard mount is center of the transom, and im looking at the Pacific Lite: http://www.windpilot.com/en/Ra/raproen.html (http://www.windpilot.com/en/Ra/raproen.html)
Any suggestions?
Thanks!
**edit** I am kicking around the idea of turning the rear storage area into an engine well, but thats pretty extensive, however its already vented, etc.
I have absolutely no experience with it (or any vane); but I've been intrigued by Mr. Vee (http://mistervee.com/) for awhile. Inexpensive, as far as vanes go. Designed for small boats. And it is supposed to be compatible with an outboard.
Just a thought.
Well, I do not have one and do not have any experience with one but from all that I have read the wind vane works great offshore. Close to shore the winds are not steady enough. the problems with outboards is when hit with a really big wave they suck water inside.
Your choice, Just mount the windvane far enough out to not be a problem with the motor.
I'd be leery of the Mr. Vee windvane, since it seems to be a work in progress and durability seems to be a big issue with it.
Yea there is a long discussion on the Mr Vee on the Vega forum. I will have to question about extending out the wind vane. That might not be a bad idea. Thanks for the suggestion!
Nowell
The conversion of the lazarette into an internal outboard has been outlined a number of places. Off the top of my head James Baldwin has a write-up on his website highlighting a conversion he did. Another idea comes from Yves Gelinas' site that he used on his A30 Jean du Sud. By the way he also manufactures a self-steering unit called Cape Horn. And he has a great film about his early 80's circumnavigation in Jean du Sud that one can purchse.
Check out these two site if you already haven't.
www.atomvoyages.com
www.capehorn.com
I don't have any experience with this either (of course).. but I have been giving this alot of thought lately, with respects to choosing a boat. I would prefer the lazarette mount, but alot of the boats Im looking at don't have that option, I'm not sure that a Vega does either.
I don't see any problem with mounting the motor to either side of the windvane. You will want to remove the motor when offshore anyway. And manuverability under power will not be any different than with the original inboard/prop (aft of the rudder) on the Vega.
The extended windvane mount may be a good idea, but you will want to be able to remove the motor from 'under' the mount pretty easily. and my biggest concern would be, what happens if you need to tighten a bolt (or any kind of repair to the windvane) while offshore? I wouldn't want to be hanging 4 feet off the transom with a wrench in one hand :)
You might want to look at the Fleming windvane, since it can be mounted off axis IIRC.
Very good info all, thanks. I will consider mounting the outboard off axis. I did see one Vega with the well conversion done, and pretty nice, but, as I said, pretty major work/conversion. I would be more concerned with structure rigidity, and performance.
I do remove the outboard when im out sailing, and would like to have the ability to do so. Also, good point about hanging out that far trying to make emergency repairs!
Tony, thanks for the links!
Nowell
Quote from: AdriftAtSea on November 25, 2008, 06:42:21 PM
I'd be leery of the Mr. Vee windvane, since it seems to be a work in progress and durability seems to be a big issue with it.
Sure. Something to be aware of with any new product. But the builder appears very attuned to the voices of his customers and is quick to fix issues as they become apparent. On the website there is a "lessons learned" section which actually talks about the weaknesses found on the JAC and the corrective actions taken, at no charge, to repair all the vanes that have been shipped. It does appear, however, that the vane worked very well until it failed.
Soooo....
You can buy a vane at a significantly lower price than competitors but suffer through occasional growing pains (possibly very unpleasant if you are in the middle of nowhere without an alternate steering method).
--or--
Spend a lot more money on a long established brand but get the benefit of years of incremental engineering on a well established design. And probably a somewhat greater chance that the company will still exist five years from now (with the global economy doing somersaults, I have my doubts about many niche companies).
I guess the choice would be based on temperament and budget. The Mr. Vee, at the moment, might be best for those on a budget and those that feel comfortable tinkering with new stuff.
I don't know that I'd be "leery" about Mr.Vee; but the design is still maturing and any buyer should be prepared for the growing pains. Depending on how far afield you are, the responsiveness of the designer may or may not ameliorate these issues. You pays your money, and you takes your choice.
If finances allow (about $1300 if I remember correctly), I've been considering getting a Mr.Vee for the Scoot. That would be about all the money I could, in good conscience, splurge for for a single there and back event.
Just remember, a wind vane isn't as useful for inland, bay and coastal sailors, as it is for bluewater sailors, since a windvane really requires fairly constant wind direction... which doesn't generally happen inland or in bays, and often not in coastal situations.
Im also considering re-powering with a beta. Altho I do like the extra storage space I have now, and the capacity to hold stuff.
The Scoot is going to be my kick off for my open ended cruise so I need to get my plan in action here shortly. The Cape Horn I ruled out as just to much for my little boat. The Pacific Lite has a great following (outside the Navik). The Mr Vee is a possibility.
QuoteThe Cape Horn "Varuna" is specifically designed for smaller boats.
(edited) I was wrong about that, the Varuna is just an outboard mounting option for smaller boats, not a smaller vane itself...
It still looks good on a Vega though :)
(Vega with "Jean-de-Sud" version Cape horn)
(http://www.caphorn.com/sections/liste/Ajouts%202007/Albin-Vega-27.jpg)
Just FYI—a fairly complete list of commercial windvane manufacturers
Aries (http://www.selfsteer.dk) — Danish built. Not really suitable for smaller boats, as gear is heavy—35 kg or so. Servo Pendulum design
Beaufort (http://www.beau-fort.com/index.php) — Very heavy French design for boats over 9m LOA. Servo Pendulum design
Cape Horn (http://www.capehorn.com) — French Canadian built, about $3,500-4,000. Servo Pendulum design
Fleming (http://www.flemingselfsteering.com.au/) — Aussie built, Servo Pendulum design
Hydrovane (http://www.hydrovane.com/home.html) — $4,000–5,000. Built in Vancouver, BC. Servo Pendulum design
Mr. Vane/Mr. Vee (http://www.mistervee.com) — Dutch based relative newcomer, fairly lightweight, has durability issues. Servo Pendulum design
Neptune (http://www.windvane.co.uk/) — British built, Servo Pendulum design
Norvane* (http://www.selfsteering.com/) — So. Calif. based. Fairly economical at $2000 or so. Servo Pendulum design
Sailomat* (http://www.sailomat.com) — So. Calif. based. Servo Pendulum design
Scanmar (http://www.selfsteer.com) — So. Calif. based mfg. of Monitor, Saye's Rig, and Auto-Helm windvane lines $3,000-5,000
South Atlantic (http://www.south-atlantic.com.ar/wind_vane_self_steering/page1.html) — South African based. about 950 Euros, Servo Pendulum design
Voyager (http://www.voyagerwindvanes.com) — Made in Ontario, CN. Servo Pendulum design
WindPilot* (http://www.windpilot.com/en/Ra/rawelen.html) — Fairly light Servo Pendulum design
* Probably the best choices for boats our size of the commercial windvanes.
I hope this helps.
Dan, thank you and a grog. An instant library for future reference.
Tim-
Glad to help. :)
The Norvane website doesn't give a weight for the windvane as far as I could find. The Norvane is made of mostly Stainless Steel, and can be used as an emergency rudder with an optional emergency tiller. This is probably lighter and less expensive, for both the windvane and emergency steering option. The Norvane, with the emergency tiller, is only about $2,300.
The weight of the Pacific Light model from WindPilot is only about 30 lbs. That's pretty reasonable for the size boats we have. The Windpilots have an accessory emergency rudder, but you have to take the windvane down to use it. However, the emergency rudder and the windvane brings the price up to over $5,000, and the emergency rudder is pretty heavy.
The Sailomat weighs between 22-27 kg or about 50-60 lbs. The Sailomat doesn't appear to have an emergency rudder option. No pricing information for the Sailomat on their website.
I like the idea of having emergency steering as an option for the windvane. Makes it a much more useful piece of equipment. So, right now, the Norvane looks like the best bang for the buck... :)
I am really satisfied with my Norvane.... However I'd liked the price better when I bought it....As I remember it was just over 1700 plus about 60 for frieght, but under 1800 total....TJim
Tjim-
That's good to know... I'm seriously thinking of ordering one in the spring....
Great list! I would add the Navik on there, but you can't get them new anymore, and sometimes parts are hard to find. Other than that, I think your list is great, and exactly how I would rate them. I personally like the Pacific Lite model, and don't mind the price.
Worst case, is its easier to mount the outboard off axis and still retain the maneuverability than trying to rig something silly with the wind vane (ie off axis, extended, etc).
I think this is a great thread and good info for the site tho, especially since most of us use the outboard/light boat model.
Quote from: AdriftAtSea on November 26, 2008, 10:27:37 PM
I like the idea of having emergency steering as an option for the windvane. Makes it a much more useful piece of equipment. So, right now, the Norvane looks like the best bang for the buck... :)
Yes the additional back up rudder is a big plus.
Quote from: TJim on November 26, 2008, 10:40:44 PM
I am really satisfied with my Norvane.... However I'd liked the price better when I bought it....As I remember it was just over 1700 plus about 60 for frieght, but under 1800 total....TJim
Thanks Jim, that is a very good recommendation, how ya doing, tied in San Diego for Thanksgiving?
just a thought on the outboard . If outboards are prone to swamping in larger seas , would it be viable to duct the air intake into an aft locker (providing the locker is vented) . Ive not had too much to do with outboards especially on sailboats but have had quite a lot to do with 4X4's and a snorkel is always one of the first additions .
I can't see why you would be running an outboard in seas that could swamp it anyway. If the sea state was like that, you should have no problem with wind ;D
Yep got the boat at Fidlers Cove Navy marina and I'm home in Salt Lake until Tuesday when I'll be going to Berkeley and and picking up my 135 (110 is useless down here) and a replacement plow for the one I left on the bottom on the way down. My fellow Triton owner, Norman is going to drive me down and spend a couple days with me before I get underway on about the 15th. Posted a latitude 38 ad for crew (adult with some experience). Kinda short notice but the 2 guys I used to get to Santa Barbara sure didn't help me any and they were both imature at 30. I'd rather singlehand than go thru that again. TJim
Not always true... sometimes you can have really nasty seas after a storm has passed, and very little wind.... :)
Quote from: nowell on November 27, 2008, 07:46:58 AM
I can't see why you would be running an outboard in seas that could swamp it anyway. If the sea state was like that, you should have no problem with wind ;D
TJ have you tried crewseekers? If you google sailboat crew you get alot of interesting sites, some with sailors in California willing to go anywhere warm. I don't know how good they might be but it just a thought. I would interview real carefully for living on a Triton!
About the windvane- you know there is another system...I steer my Compac with a sail to tiller system and it is pretty consistent. The cost was just a few parts I had lying about the garage and some good surgical tubing. It kinda cluttters up the back of the cockpit, bit doesn't get in the way of my outboard. I have seen some installations that route the lines out of the way and really look nifty. Of course you don't get a second tiller, but if your offshore you should know how to steer without a tiller anyway, and have your boat balanced well with your sails.
Fair winds
newt