I thought some of you might be interested in a new boat coming together. She is designed by Graham Brynes of B&B yacht designs. It uses the cold mold stripping method. The cypress strips will be glassed inside and out with 1700 bi axle cloth. The strips get glue to the stem and keel batten. The strips have a 1/16th gap between them that get thicken epoxy squeegeed in. After she is tacked with thicken epoxy all the temporary fasteners are removed and the whole hull gets filled with thicken epoxy between the strips. After that she gets sanded and glassed inside and out.
Here are a few pic's.
Really beginning to take shape.
Keep scarfing those strips :D Eventually it'll get done!! Just seems like forever ;D
A few more
Hope soon Charlie. If you notice at the bow the some strips stand proud a bit, the light is hanging right above the hull and makes it look bad. I tried using 1/4 inch ply strips running across the strips like Graham suggested and it pulls them all fair.
Here's some of the mold.
Awesome! Very cool.
Whaooo :P nice!!!
I've read on the Microskiff site of some guys doing builds with this method (in my own words, peanut butter the cracks ;D). Seems like it would make for a very strong hull. Very interested in your outcome!
Grahams podcast on Furled Sails (http://www.furledsails.com/article.php3?article=717) is one of my favorites. I really need to go the few hours up the road and check him/his shop out some time. I'm not a racer sailor per se, but I love what he's done to kick so much booty in the Everglades Challenge. :)
CapnK, Graham and Carla are super people. If you get the chance to meet them you should. He has always been very patent with me and all my indecision's about what kind of a boat I want. Even found me a like new Beta 20 with about 150 hours on it. I build the first Belhaven 19 after he designed it and I know I bothered him more than I should have, but he was always helpful and gave me hhis time.
I have been waiting for it to warm up in the boat barn this morning so I better get out there and finish getting the bottom of my tub planked.
Scott
Heres a few pic's. I'll start making some more strips tomorrow.
A few more
Looking sooo sweet Scott
Thanks Tim
We got 24 more strips gluded up today and hope to close up the bottom of this tub tomorrow. Then its on to laminating the deck shelf so I can finsh stripping the other 8 inchs of topsides. All I have to do then is wait for the weather to stay in the 60 to 70's to start filling the gaps and glassing.
Scott
Finished gettint the bottom closed up today. I'll post some pics tomorrow sometime.
She is closed up on the bottom now. The boat is looking smaller every time I work on her now. I'm sure its going to feel much bigger when I start the sanding marathon.
Quote from: Sunset on March 25, 2012, 08:26:32 PM
She is closed up on the bottom now. The boat is looking smaller every time I work on her now. I'm sure its going to feel much bigger when I start the sanding marathon.
;D Just wait til you turn her over and look at the huge hole ya gotta fill with interior!!!
Looking great Scott
Nice... Great job!
Thanks ntica.
The interior keeps me in a constant state of confusion :-\ :-\ As per our communications on this boat Graham is taking care of all structural issues and I am laying out most of what we want inside.
By the way Charlie when did you say your coming up to help sand and glass? ;D
Got started on installing the deck shelf so I can finish planking the top sides. Hope to get them done by next weeks end. Then it will be time to fill the gaps and sand the hull close to fair. The final fairing will be done after glassing and feathering the seams of glass over laps. I have a 200lb roll of 17 oz bi axle cloth waiting to jump on the hull. Talked to the designer last week and told him I would be ready for the prints for the keel and skeg sometime in may. I really hope to get this hull in epoxy primer and turned by July 1st. Every one that sees the boat in the barn, the first question they ask is how are you going to turn her over? My answer is always, I don't have a clue ??? I have a friend with a large backhoe and am hoping we can use it as a crane. Ive estimated she will be up to around 2200 lbs by then so I don't know.
Charlie when I talked to Graham I told him that I ask when you could come up and help glass and sand, and you didn't reply. ;D ;D He was really surprised ;D ;D
I have to get this boat turned, glassed inside and the bulkheads in before next winter. That way I can build the cabinetry in my heated shop during the winter months.
Anyway I guess that's enough rattling on, I was just bored tonight.
I am planning a trip out to visit the designer in June sometime for a week and would love to meet some people from this forum that are in the area of Vandemere, New Bern or Oriental area.
What do you all think about this layout? I don't like the sharp corner of the head sticking out in the cabin area or having to crawl out of the V berth like a reptile. But it could be a starting point for a cabin layout. My build will be a foot longer and nearly 2 feet wider so things could be changed a bit.
Quote from: Sunset on April 13, 2012, 08:10:13 AM
What do you all think about this layout? I don't like the sharp corner of the head sticking out in the cabin area...
I've seen a variation of this layout, with the corner clipped off into an angle, with the door occupying the angle as a folding door. Looks like a nice, no-nonsense layout.
Even if you don't take that approach, you could still soften the corner by a few inches to make it less of a "shoulder-biter".
Got the shear line marked and the deck shelves cut in. One deck shelf is dry fitted. Hope to get them both glued up Saturday. Then finish stripping the top sides next week. If I can get the time to accomplish this we can epoxy the hull the following week. Then the sanding and fairing start. Hope to have a glassed hull by this time next month. Then start laying up the keel and skeg. :)
Here's one deck shelf dry fitted. The hull will be stripped down past the shelf then cut to the shelves contour .
Looking real good. The build seems to be going at a pretty good rate.
How long until you will get to the epoxy stage?
Quote from: Sunset on April 13, 2012, 08:10:13 AM
What do you all think about this layout? I don't like the sharp corner of the head sticking out in the cabin area or having to crawl out of the V berth like a reptile. But it could be a starting point for a cabin layout. My build will be a foot longer and nearly 2 feet wider so things could be changed a bit.
I don't think the scale on that pic is quite right ??? if That saloon berth / settee is around 6 foot then I only see 20 odd foot of boat.....or the berth is 9 foot long, which if the case probably means you need a bit more legroom in the head!
Anyway, a couple of thoughts:-
Hanging lockers - I think 2 is a bit too much on a 28 footer, space better used elsewhere.
Space - apart from the physical size of the boat, the feeling of space can be created (and removed!) visually - specifically by having as few full height compartments and cupboards as possible in the saloon. 2 full height hanging lockers and a large heads compartment will make her seem small.
The Head - I would favour either having the head aft (doubling as wet locker) or in the forecabin. For me a toilet under a berth is on the yuck list! (especially if under your head!), so I would consider dispensing with the berths in the forecabin! The plus is that the hanging lockers could be moved into the forecabin (now a forepeak) plus plenty of stowage. Would very much depend on getting at least some headroom at the front of the forepeak, but should give you plenty of legroom (and arm room if also a shower) - and the above waist room will make it feel less like you are having a poop in a cupboard!
Extra Settee Berth - moving the head foward should give you the space to create a 2nd berth on the starboard side - the plus being aprt from extra lounging space is that can also serve as good sea berth on the downhill side. The compromise being that the (in port) double bed would not be permanent - but as starting with a blank piece of paper should be able to come up with something that works well - whether the berth is length ways or accross the beam.
Quarter Berths - I hate them! for me they are akin to sleeping in a coffin and often not an easy climb in (or out!) - with the 2nd settee / sea berth IMO not needed (in practice they are mostly used for storage - stuff at the end being a PITA to reach!). Therefore I would cut the Sea berth in half - 50% as another cockpit locker and 50% saloon stowage (bedding etc).
Whilst I won't say my boat is perfect (I have a 1/4 berth! used solely for stowage) and another foot or 2 in the galley (especially for work surfaces) would be nice overall she functions well. At 30' a touch larger than your boat - but she does have an Aft Cabin which reduces the size of the Cockpit (no full length seats :-[) and the saloon (probably about the same size as yours will be). Am presently creating a double bed in the Aft Cain (but as no immediate use for a double! that will be walk in stowage) - in the saloon I will be creating a double berth (but that not high on the priority list).
The below is a tad small, but shows the layout:-
(http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b474/Seadog_album/Diagrams%20and%20Plans/seadog20layout.jpg)
and the forepeak:
(http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b474/Seadog_album/Forepeak/2357926_6.jpg)
and teh saloon:
(http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b474/Seadog_album/Saloon/2357926_3.jpg)
The above are sister ships - more pics (of mine and others) by clicking on the link in my signature.
Thanks for the input. I like to always be thinking of differant ways of doing things.
We hope to be epoxying the hull within the next two weeks. Have her glassed by mid May, so I can start laying up the keel and skeg. I got more cypress strips cut and scarfted yesterday. So we will be glueing up the shelfs saturday and then finish stripping.
I really like the layout of that boat David, Thanks for posting it. It gives me more food for thought.
I agree with most of what David said. I do like well-designed quarter berths, but if not well-designed, they can be a real pain to exit/enter. I came across this graphic which is neat because it shows some different configurations of a 28' hull:
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=1172
I'd add that I'd try and keep the layout as open as possible, which will be a boon for both ventilation and create a feeling of spaciousness. We just have a curtain for the fo'c'sle, which includes a pipe berth (good for guests, but serves as convenient stowage most of the time), the head, and a lot of stowage. Think about things like where you'll want to put spare sails and or a goodly bit a wet stuff that you've had to bring below for whatever reason. You'll want a good bit of space that's not covered in cushion, or cushions that can easily be stowed out of the way elsewhere. I am a big fan of an aft galley (pretty much right at the companionway) and a head in the fo'c'sle.
Don't know if you're planning on an cooler weather cruising, but a "detail" that is often overlooked is where to mount a cabin heater. I've seen some in really awkward locations where you're liable to bump into them or they limit berth space, etc...
I'd also spend a lot of time thinking about stowage layout for everything from provisions to spares to sails. Where will the batteries, tanks, etc. go? The best place for heavy things is of course low and centered fore-and-aft. Naturally, probably not all of it will be able to go there. Lots of tradeoffs to consider.
When you think you've got the layout nailed down and the hull flipped over, you could make a mock-up inside the hull using cardboard, a boxcutter, and packing tape. There's only so much you can see on paper, and you might come up with a few last minute refinements.
I like the idea of a Pipe Berth / Cot in the forepeak. Principal use as stowage - and for guests (upside is that they won't be staying for 3 months!).
I must confess that I don't recall whether Sunset is setting up the boat for self, with a partner (or also with kids?)......in any case I would suggest that (particularly for future resale) that 4 Berths would be a good idea, even if two of those are used to stow gear (or kids!). In this case that might mean that the 1/4 berth reappears :(.....although I would favour a second pipe cot, either in the forepeak or above a settee berth (or at least a provision for one designed in).
FWIW, over here (UK) the Open plan layout (at least on the older / more traditonal boats) is a rarity - even on smaller boat sizes (to the point of sometimes forcing a seperate forecabin beyond what makes sense!). Personally I do kinda like the look of what I would call the open "American Layout" of a U shaped settee, with double berth behind (and above) in the bow area. Just not entirely sure how practical that would be to live with for extended periods. The head in the forepeak is (in these parts) a throwback to the 50's and 60's (and earlier?) from when sail changes were needed and forepeak made the perfect location for the sail locker ("stuff the sail down the hatch - and worry about it later!").
David we are planning to live aboard around six months a year, just the wife and I. With an occasional visitor. We hope to sail or motor down 600 miles or so to the Gulf by the way of the Tenn-Tom in the Fall. Then down to the Keys or further for the winter. Then back in late spring after the river flooding has eased. This would be a yearly trip depending upon our parents health and needs.
Thanks for the links to the Shannon boats, Ive always liked them and admire some of their construction habits.
One thing the interior design will have to work around is the mizzen tabernacle will be at the back of the cabin on the center line. So the companion way will be off set.
There's just so much to think about on the layout. I'm glad I can't build this thing in 4 months, gives much needed time for thought, and advice, hopefully with less mistakes.
After I get the structural bulkheads in I will do as stated earlier and lay out everything in cardboard or cheap 1/4 inch osb and try to get the feel how it will work.
As for heat, this is my thought at the moment. Anyone with experience here please chime in. We will have a heater plumbed into the Beta 20 for underway on the rivers. Plan to use a small ceramic at the 30 plus marinas along the Tenn-Tom. Also if we would anchor out on the way to warm weather, we could use the clay pot on the stove to knock the chill off, with a little ventilation of course. But we hope to be in the Gulf by the 1st of November every year.
We plan on using the V berth for our main sleeping area. I know underway this is not the best choice. But the type of cruising we are planning having to sleep there underway will be rare. We may make a straight shot from Mobile to the Keys and maybe one from the Bahamas to Pamlico sound. But those will be rare. We could use the settee for those since one of us will be at the helm anyway. We have both slept pretty good at anchor in rough water in the v berth of our 19 foot boat as long as it wasn't beam waves we were dealing with. I hope the action of this boat will be less than the 19 footer. I will have more trouble than my wife, I think she can sleep anywhere. I was once pounding into large waves for most of the day and my wife said she was going below for a nap. I thought there's no way she's going to sleep in this. The spray was coming over the cabin top and hitting me in the face every time the bow would sink in, before she would rise again. After about 15 minutes I looked down the companion way and she was sleeping like a baby, and did for three hours. I couldn't believe it.
I have a roofing job to do next week, but it looks like rain. So I may be able to finish stripping this tub next week and get her epoxyed up. ;)
Scott
I am not expert (to put it mildly!) on rigging / sailplans - but that sounds very far forward for a Mizzen on a 28 footer. But I am guessing that is as designed, rather than just a conveniant place to put it ;D
Whilsy giving you (yet more!) ideas to ponder over :P - how about self stowing washboards? (low tech - powered by bungee cord!).....30 seconds of Youtube a far easier explantation than I can do in words!
http://youtu.be/6USBW0EEw-o (http://youtu.be/6USBW0EEw-o)
If this is a Princess 28, then remember- the sail plan is a cat ketch- here's the 26 as an example
When I ask Graham to design this boat, I asked that she had a cockpit no longer then the Belhaven. Which was about 6'6" and make the cabin as long as possible. That makes the mizzen tabernacle right on the back of the cabin. Charlie its not a Princess, shes a whole new design. I suggested to Graham to name her Candice28 after a daughter we lost. So far on the plans shes called Scott's boat. ;D I have the sail plan drawing but its on a very large sheet and I don't know how to get it from paper to here.
I'll see what I can do.
I wouldn't go to any extra aggro on my account - it's not as if I really know what I am looking at!
But if a Cat Ketch, then that Mizzen being the forward end of the cockpit does now make sense (at least to me!) - given that the main mast also being further forward (than a Bermudan / Marconi rig).
Anyway, nice to see that someone (else!) has the good taste to go for a mizzen mast ;D
Here is a picture of the sailplan, its not very good.
Yup, I was right.........I don't really know what I am looking at :P
But when it comes to boats, I come from the school of thought: "it if it looks right - it probably is"....and to my mind she looks right 8).
great job! And keep it up!
Impressive stuff mate.
Thanks
Both deck shelves are glued up now and we are ready to finish stripping :). Looks as I am going to get rained out this week( Darn ) so hope to finish stripping by weeks end. Then its time to fill the gaps and start fairing 8)
Been really procrastinating on these shelves because I knew they had to be right on, or it would ruin the look of the boat if that sheer line wasn't right. The sheer is the first line I see on a boat and a proper boot is the second. Both have the power to destroy the looks of the whole boat.
All the strips are on and will be starting the epoxy gap filling very soon. Plan to tack her together between the frames and fairing strips one day. On the second day remove all the screws and finish filling the gaps. Then its on to the sanding and fairing marathon.
Our goal is still to have the hull finished and turned sometime in July.
As soon as shes glassed we'll start laying up the keel and skeg for the rudder.
After that, another couple of weekends should see her out on the water :P
Tomorrow morning we will start filling the gaps. I tried a small area tonight with good results, the thickened epoxy went between the planks fairly easily. Some of the gaps are as small as 1/16" and those take a little more effort to get it through completely. The 1/8 to 3/16 gaps it filled with one swipe of the squeegee. Only trouble I had was I mixed to much and it started to kick off before I could use it all. So we are going to make smaller batchs and spread them out so it doesnt kick to quick.
Should have it completed by Sunday evening.
David she should float by Monday :)
Here's a few pictures of the epoxy gap filling. One shows the gaps filled between the frames and the fairing strips. Also after all the screws were removed and the whole hull filled. One picture shows the goal of having the epoxy squeezing through.
She sure is ugly now before sanding. The mixture is about half microballoons and silica by volume. So I am hoping it doesn't sand to hard.
Few more
fantastic work. keep it up, and more photos as the progress continiue
A few pictures after the first sanding.
You missed a bit ;D
I bet you can almost "taste" that first coat of hull paint! Slowly, slowly - catchee monkey 8)
You know David I can ;D
I hope to keep thinking of that high gloss paint through the sanding, fairing, sanding, fairing, sanding, fairing and through the sanding and fairing process. Even with her covered in heavy fiberglass those planks will show through the gloss, without lots of fairing. When I think I cant stand doing anymore, I'll take a week off, then do the whole hull again. Below the water line I'll try to get it good, the fish don't care with the anti foul rolled on, but above the water line she has to be right on.
The gloss paint forgives nothing and loves to show ether how lazy the builder is, or how much he cares.
I have been looking at this hull so long not upside down she is looking looks shes only 20 foot long, until I start sanding again. ;D
The inside looks like a foot ball field but the outside sure doesn't.
Should have my plans for the keel and skeg shortly, that give me something else to think about besides fairing.
Haven't got much done lately, been to busy making a living :(. We did get the deck shelves glassed in and some more fairing done. I hope to get 4 or 5 days next week to get some major fairing done. Need to order another 15 gallon kit of epoxy to get the outside glassed. The designer told me it would take a pound of epoxy for every pound of glass cloth, just to wet it out. There's about 90 lbs of cloth on the outside not counting the keel and skeg rudder assembly. I had hoped to get the hull turned in July, but some miracles are going to have to come together for that to happen.
Anyway just an update of the lack of progress.
Keep it up, its a hard work building a boat!
Quote from: Sunset on June 12, 2012, 09:41:39 PM
Haven't got much done lately, been to busy making a living :(.
Yeah, I hate it when that happens ???
Keep plugging away :)
Graham, as incredibly busy as he is, sent me the keel prints last week. Graham I thank you for your time and patience with me and this project.
I have finally got some free time to get on the boat again. I know that the gloss paint is going to forgive NOTHING so I must fair till I cant stand it any more, then do it again.
So in between fairing the hull for the glassing I'll be laying up the keel in the shop so it will be ready to be glassed in after the hull glass gets laded. I will be laminating the keel from 1.5 inch yellow pine. The lead shoe wont be mounted and glassed in till the hull is turned of course. So some of the keel will be cut away for the lead and used to shape the mold for the lead pour.
I got a serious amount of work to do to get this hull glassed, keel mounted, skeg build and installed along with the shaft tube and cutlass bearing in, build a new cradle to set her in that will allow us to pull her from the barn when the time comes. Then I need to get the inside glassed and I want to mount the diesel before I start laying out the interior. Hope to have it to this point before the snow starts to fly.
Its so dog gone aggravating to watch that hull just set there waiting on me and my slim pocket book. If stupid money was no issue, I believe I could have this boat done in 12 to 14 more months.
Haven't got to work on the boat for a month now. To hot and life keeps getting in the way. But have started fairing and sanding again this week. Going to hit it pretty hard all week and try to be ready to glass next week.
Have a good friend that donated 10 gallons of fresh Raka epoxy to the project. Very generous to say the least, and very much appreciated.
My goal was to have her glassed, the keel on and turned over by the end of July. That's not going to happen but is very possible for August. I feel that I must have her turned, glassed inside and out and a few bulkheads in before winter gets here.
Anyway that's an update of where I'm at on this project.
So when she is glassed and the keel is going on I'll post some more pictures.
Scott
TEN GALLONS!!!! WOW- quite a friend, indeed.
Keep on trucking - you'll get there
Good to hear, keep plugging away, it'll get done!
I did a test on how much floatation the hull material was going to add to the overall floatation picture.
The hull material has one and a half pound of buoyancy per square foot. So that adds up to about 800 pounds of flotation for the hull not counting bulkheads, decks and cabin wood. I was hoping the hull would come in at more than 1200 pounds of floatation. I am going to try to insulate most of that hull with 1/2 inch foam which has the potential of raising the hull floatation by another 1200 pounds. All this along with foam cored decks, cabin and poured foam in wasted spaces may be enough to keep her off the bottom of sea. But so much of the floatation will be high in the boat I'm sure she will be a swamped rat. But what floatation there is my help slow the in pour of water to the point that pumps may be able to keep up, depending on the size of the hole of course. It should also give a slow thinking captain more time to execute a plan of salvation.
Tomorrow is glassing day ;D The sanding is coming to a temporary stop while glassing. I have sanded till I can't stand it anymore. She appears to be real close. I will have more fairing to do after glassing but it should be a walk in the park compared to whats been done so far.
I'll post some new pictures after glassing. Then the keel layup starts. :)
She is glassed!! Im just filling the weave now. I'll post some pictures in a few days. It took 8 gallons of goo to wet out that berber carpet we put on her. ( 17 oz biaxle )
The gloss of the epoxy in the lights gives me hope that she's fair. I still have to fair in the the overlaps of of the cloth.
Now it's keel Time.
Thanks for the help today Charlie.
Heres some glassed pictures. There is a glob of junk on the bottom of the bow, the boats fair I just need to grind that piece of glass out. It wouldnt make the corner smoothly, so I just left it untill every thing cures.
2
Lookin' good! ;)
She's going to be really beautiful when you finish! :)
Looking really really smooth. Glad I could be of help.
That Bi-Ax looks like tough stuff.
Nice progress, looking forward to seeing her right side up!
Got a pattern for the keel lamination's done, so we will start laying up the keel this week end. The keel is 101 inch's long at bottom of the hull and about 18 inch's shorter at the foot. Also 9 1/2 inch's thick at the widest point.
My brother stays on me about making her a center-boarder. But I want to do a lot of off shore sailing and just don't feel like the four foot draft is unreasonable. Heck his trawler draws only a few inch's less than that.
Anyway we will be laminating the keel now, then on to the rudder skeg.
look forward to see the pictures...as always!
Quote from: Sunset on September 06, 2012, 05:02:12 PM
My brother stays on me about making her a center-boarder. But I want to do a lot of off shore sailing
A centerboarder can sail offshore. Certain precautions apply, but it can work. Too, it does depend on what you mean by "offshore." Crossing or coast hopping? One or two days "out" vs weeks/over a month?
Quote
and just don't feel like the four foot draft is unreasonable. Heck his trawler draws only a few inch's less than that.
Four feet of draft is nothing compared to the lion's share of sail boats sailing "offshore." The amount amount of keel needed is ultimately up to the designer.
Even if it's CB, it will have to be four feet or more, so I guess I don't understand your bro's reasoning here. Maybe he means that you can have the CB up while motoring? Do you plan to do a lot of pure motoring? With the board up?
Our 18 foot trailer boat has a centerboard. We almost always have it down. The boat is a little less tippy with the board down and definitely tracks better. With the board down, our 18 ft boat draws Four Feet. ;)
I have a lot of bad habits I picked up from sailing our Belhaven 19. She drew 14 inch's of water and I got in the habit of not thinking about navigation much other than getting to where I wanted to go. With the board down she drew around 4 feet and I used that board as a dept sound often. That will no longer be the option, we will have to navigate. I think this is where my brother is coming from, along with not being able to back the stern in close to the shore and walk in.
;D With the so called Global warming are the oceans supposed to be getting deeper? ;)
Heck in another ten years centerboarders may be obsolete!
Also while I'm on the environment, has anyone ever noticed that the so called GREEN chemicals never work very well. If they do you have to use five times as much and ten times as much water. I always got a kick out a new environmentally friendly John that was installed at my old employer. Everyone asked why this new Kolar that uses 1/3 of the water must be flushed 5 times instead of once. If you do the math it used more water than the old one.
Personally if a product brags about how GREEN it is, I know it wont work and keep looking.
I was intending to get the keel flat installed today, but the barn took all day replacing the plastic front. So I'll start on that today.
While the plastic was off I thought I would get a few pictures that wasn't possible with the barn closed up.
The shear planking is not trimmed to the deck shelf as of yet so that makes the shear look a bit lumpy. Before the planking went on the deck shelf showed the sheer fair and sweet. Cant wait to turn her over and get all these cleaned up so I can see her real shape.
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Finally got the keel flat installed. After checking, double checking and rechecking, alignment and position and levelness.
This is the first time I used chopped fiberglass mixed in the epoxy. Some areas were going to be a little thick so I used the chopped glass with silica. The glass fibers were about 1 inch long, don't know if they strengthen epoxy much, but figured they couldn't hurt.
So its on to sanding, fairing the glass overlaps and laying up the keel.
Just about given up on getting this thing turned over by winter, just too much to do, to get there!
Been to busy to get much time on my boat. I will get some more keel lamination's cut out this weekend.
Out of epoxy again so I'll just keep cutting and shaping pieces for the keel.
The high temperature of the shed really cured the the glass super hard. We will be sanding on it again for a while.
I'll post a picture of the keel flat this weekend from the top of the barn, you can really get a idea how wide she is from up there.
As soon as Graham gets me some direction on cutting the stern I am going to get that cut in.
The keel flat, the shadows are playing tricks with the pictures, she's right on the money.
Getting ready to order another batch of epoxy. I thought the 10 NFM ports were expensive, but this epoxy is going to break me before I get to the ports. If I can keep life from getting the way all the time maybe I can get this tub turned sometime this winter.
Visited the designer two weeks ago about a lot of different issues. Graham is very good and patient with me.
Hang in there, it will be such a work to be proud of. Grog ya for perseverance.
Seconded - both the great work, and the grog! :) She is looking impressive!
Quote from: Sunset on November 07, 2012, 09:30:06 PM
Getting ready to order another batch of epoxy. I thought the 10 NFM ports were expensive, but this epoxy is going to break me before I get to the ports. If I can keep life from getting the way all the time maybe I can get this tub turned sometime this winter.
Visited the designer two weeks ago about a lot of different issues. Graham is very good and patient with me.
Keep up the great work....Roam wasn't build in a day, You are making progress and that is what counts! She is looking great!
Thanks for the encouragement. I have decided to put another layer of light glass above the water line and a layer of 12oz. below the water line. I'm afraid the heavy 17 oz biaxle cloth is going to print through the finish of the top sides. I don't know how many of you know what print through is, but the heavy glass will eventually show the weave through the paint on a epoxy glassed hull. So my hope is a thin layer of 6 oz plain weave will prevent this from happening. Charlie will know what I'm talking about. As for the bottom I'm not worried about print through, we all know how bottom paint is. I'm just doing it for extra abrasion resistance and hull strength on the bottom. This extra glass will only add about 84 pounds to the whole hull, that's only about 3 pounds per foot.
I do need to be careful not to add to many beef ups, but this one for the minimum weight gain I think is a good one.
I'll be able to cut some weight above the water line by using okoume ply on the inside of the decks and cabin foam core sandwich, but will use meranti on the outer layer. This will give me a more damage resistant deck than the okoume and help me stay within Grahams designed weight.
Graham did surprise me when he told me I would be glassing the decks and cabin exterior with 18 oz glass. I think I'll do a 12oz layer with a 6 oz layer over that for the print through issue. I'll lay them in a time frame where I'll have a chemical bond.
Well it's been a year now since I started this boat. I read back through my posts and can believe how naive I was about the amount of progress I wanted to accomplish. Although I started out at a full run I have ended the year at a crawl. I started building a house for a customer last month and will have it under roof this week, as for the boat nothing!! Somewhere in the near future I need to get my priorities in place. All I think about while building this house is living on my boat, it's starting to fill like a fairy tale. I even went out to the boat barn to see if I really was building a boat or was dreaming. Sure enough there's a 28 foot boat shell in there. :o :o
Slow and steady......you'll get there!
Perseverance mate, we all started out with a dream. I have been living mine for the last year and it was worth every hour of overtime and every hour spent hanging upside down in a locker working on god knows what.
I'll keep chucking along and get there one day.
Graham sent me the drawings to cut the stern in last week, so hope to get that done this week. It' probably going to be to cold to do much epoxy work other than a few keel lamination's in the small shop. Cold weather is good sanding weather as long as your out of the wind, so I'll get some more of that done.
Hope to get some of the remaining jobs done so we can turn this thing over sometime in the early spring. That will be a major motivator, having the hull up right for the first time. The glassing of the inside will be much easier and does not have to be finished hardly at all. It will all covered with foam and interior panels, so it should go real fast to the point of installing bulkheads.
Still doing a lot of thinking about trying to give the boat positive flotation. It's a challenge because nearly everywhere you use foam would use up storage space.
Doing the math the hull it's self will add about 800 to 900 lbs of flotation. That will only cover about half of the lead keel weight. The foam sandwiched hull may make up the remaining lead weight. But that still leaves a lot of boat to float. It just may not be possible without using to much interior up.
One of the things working in my favor is the catketch rig center of effort is quite a bit lower than most rigs so she will not require as much lead ballast.
Well thats enough rambling on, we'll see if I can get something done this week.
I am no expert when it comes to boats but I would imagine on a 25 footer attempting to make it positively buoyant would be an impossibility or at best totaly impractical. You would probably be better off reducing the risk of failures that lead to sinking.
Your probably right Matt. One thing I got going for me in this build is the cold molded cypress wood already puts me 800 lbs ahead of the game over a straight fiberglass hull.
I have been thinking of sealed cockpit lockers and sealed storage for rarely used items as a major part of the positive flotation.
In the bow for instance I can have a sealed compartment for the holding tank under the berth, with a removable lid for maintenance. The last boat I built had cockpit lockers so deep you had to stand on your head to get to anything on the bottom. Some foam and a higher bottom to the locker would be another way also.
Anyway it's a goal to have, and no way to test it.
For sure, seal-able lockers is a good way to go. I have a similar issue with one of the cockpit lockers. One is only about 1 foot deep the other is way to deep to be practical, I was thinking a false floor in the deep locker might be the ticket. That way I could store the rarely used gear under the false floor and have ready access to the things I use under way.
I got the stern cut in today, here's a few pic's. Got some minor faring to do yet. Tomorrow we'll cut about 4 more keel lamination's, I'm afraid to go much further than about 8 inchs on the keel at this time.
One more
Finally I have got four days to work on my boat. So we will be doing some fairing of glass overlaps and install some more keel lamination's. Also going to start drilling keel bolts.
I was looking inside the hull the other night and it just looks so huge inside. It doesn't look like I could ever fill all that space with equipment and furniture!
We did some measurements the other night also and it looks like instead of a normal v berth, we can get a full size mattress in along one side of the hull and still have standing headroom off to the side. The aft end of the forward cabin is 8 feet wide. It would be nice to have a regular mattress up there like some of the larger boats. We would have to sacrifice about 6" of main cabin to do it and make some wedge shaped locker, but may be worth it. We also can build in some drawers under the bed.
My wife told me from the first breath I took while telling her I wanted to build a cruising keel boat that I was insane.
She was right, but it's to late now . I have a good start on one that will be nice once all the effort is spent.
I grinded, fared and added two more keel lamination's today. A total of ten more hours of work and you can barely tell that I was there.
I think or believe that once the hull is turned and I start on the inside that it will become much easier to be motivated.
Sometimes I wish Graham would have told me to fly a kite when I asked him to design this boat for me. Then I set back and look at her lines and run my hand over her smooth hull and think how lucky I am that he did it for me. I'm truly thankful that he did, it's just when I look at the work ahead of me that is discouraging.
I know it will be a rare boat being a very well designed cat ketch 28 cruising design. I just have to figure out how to get through this rough bump in the road of all this fairing and sanding. Maybe I am being to picky with the way I'm trying to finish the hull, maybe not. I look at a lot of factory boats where the hull isn't perfect.
Charlie Jones gave me some great advice a while back. He told me he never paints the hull in high gloss, but then told me I could try and if I wasn't satisfied I could shoot the 2nd and third coat in a slightly flatter coat.
You'll get there, and it'll be worth nit.
Hey-I built a 35 foot trimaran THREE hulls to fair. Only took 7 years, working after work.
I'm definitely feeling the drag too, Sunset, and I've only been working for a few months. Something about fairing seems to take FOREVER......All I can say is try not to be too hard on yourself.
If sanity requires taking a break, toning down the workload, or focusing on other projects for a while, don't fight, but accept that it will be better for your mental health in the long run. IMHO, trying to grind through at the expense of your happiness is risking burnout or worse, boat-burn-down syndrome (does anyone here know what I'm talking about?) :D
;D
For sure. Once or twice, I seriously considered taking a chain saw and walking straight across the boat with it, side to side.
Quote from: w00dy on March 27, 2013, 01:22:06 PM
(does anyone here know what I'm talking about?) :D
Yes. I've had to put working on the boat on the back burner...much to the distress of my crew...for several months.
It seems almost like a paradox or cyclic thing, though, because it's when the work has the least "show" to it that makes it harder to stick with it. Fairing is a good example...hours of work, and little to show to the outside observer.
In my case...that's a double paradox. I work days on end, getting needed "behind the scenes" repairs done, and a visit to the yard gets the question, "What have you been doing? It looks the same to me." >:(
Yep. That makes me want to keep digging at it. Then I hear, "When are you going to get the boat done?" ;)
Sailboats and schedules rarely mix. Seems true even in the boat yard. I say that if you need a break, take one.
Yep, 4 years to do what started out as a simple repaint. Sitting here today with the topside finally prepped and taped, watching the weather get fouler and fouler ;D
Fortunately I have another boat to sail, but of course that is also some of the problem ;)
Hang in there progress is progress.
Thanks for the encouragement.
It's been a long while, I haven't done anything on the boat for 8 months. Been very busy with life, sold my house and am building a much smaller one!,,,, downsizing big time so we can go cruising. I should be done by March and be able to hit the boat big time again. I kick around the idea of not having a land base any longer, but the need to help with the wife's and my parents made my decision for me.
Hopfully I will be back at it full time a few months after the first of the year.
Keep plugging away 8)
Got a new boat shop built, but of course its not finished like everything else I get into. But it shouldn't be to much longer before I can get back at the boat again. Went to Key west for two weeks and put a bow thruster tube in for my brother on his trawler, along with other fiberglass projects.
Congrats on the boat shop. Should make projects easier!
Has anyone used Raka's 425 epoxy hardener? They say it is a cold weather hardener and will cure in the 40's.
Not specifically. I have used their other epoxy hardeners with good luck, however, and consider them to be high quality.
We have got our 28 building move to a new shop and are finally getting going again. It has been touch and go lately weather to continue or sell and buy a classic plastic. I lost 3 years of building time because of life and building two houses. All along I keep getting older and we are still not out there. I keep looking at old Pearsons, Tartons and Catalinas thinking a paint job and updating would be much easier, concerning I have two more years before SS. I am going on a long two year cruise then even if it is on my catalina 22!!!!!!!! I am confused on what I want, any thoughts and ideas are welcome.
Scott
What was your dream when you started the build?
Did you want to get away cheaper, make a better boat than you could buy or do you just like building things?
Remember the dream, don't loose site of where you want to go and what you want to do.
Anyone...I mean ANYONE...that has done a major restoration or build has wondered "what da &%#@ have I got into?' at some point.
The estimated time is typically 1/4 of actual......dollars about the same....
Best advice is to be totally honest with yourself.... Forget about what anyone will say, think or do. How do YOU feel?
Do you still have the drive? The time? Most importantly...is it still FUN for you?
What are your realistic timelines? What do you hope to do?
Only you can answer these questions....just saying...be honest with yourself.
Building boats or major restorations typically don't save money over getting a good deal on a well found, well loved used boat.
Simple fact....
Do you enjoy the process....or are overwhelmed by it? Is it fun...or not?
You have the time...or ???
Been there....
If I was Buddhist...I'd say "meditate on it"
Your dream....your work....your time....your $$$.....your call...
I often look forward to what I hope to do ...then think...what do I have to do "now" to get there...
What ever ya do......enjoy yourself.
I do enjoy building, also restoring. The main reason I started this was that I liked building along with I wanted a catketch. There are very few used catketchs out there to pick from. Mostly because the rig is so misunderstood.
I am going to keep working on it while make up my mind on what to do. It's easy sometimes to say, just sell the bare hull and move on. Then I go out and look at the beautiful lines the designer made and think there is no way I can walk away from this!
Right now I am glassing the inside of the bare hull. The sole frames and structural bulkheads come next. So I think I will just keep at it until I can come to my senses.
Scott
Scott - I wonder if a little help and another pair of hands might make things a lot easier/more motivational for you? Either an oldster from the local harbor/boatyard, or a young'un who has boating/cruising dreams, someone who can/does share the dream you have visualized, and help you get through some of the drudge work at a reasonable price? Like maybe they get a Catalina 22 out of the deal when you take off cruising? :)
A good friend sailed a "cat ketch sharpie" back in the 70's and early 80's. It had twin centerboards...one for each mast. When we tacked...the forward board had to be raised. A great shoal water boat and SUPER fast on a reach or run!
Keep at er.....have fun!!!
Some Dreams are not meant to be! they are meant to stay dreams!!!! Not to say that dreams don't drive us they do! The folks that can discern what dreams should stay dreams are way ahead in the game.
I emailed the Very talented designer and told him I was walking away from the build.
Sorry to hear that Scott. But yeah, sometimes it's best to step away.
Good luck in future
This hull is for sell, it would be very nice for the right person. Its glassed inside and out and ready for the guts. The designer has told me he would work with a new owner.
Scott