With only a year and nine months to the start of The Scoot, I already feel like I'm falling behind in prepping my Seafarer for the trip to the Bahamas. Working from memory (I hardly ever have a chance to get to the boat, lately) here is a first draft work list and commentary.
The rig:
- Pull mast and inspect.
- Re-wire VHF antenna.
- Change to all rope halyards (I'm annoyed by the wire/rope splice).
- Probably replace stays, shrouds and hardware (I suspect they are as old as the boat).
- Install spreader boots on ends of spreaders.
- Repair "steaming" light.
- Possibly add masthead LED navigation lights.
- Re-step and tune.
- Acquire a genoa and storm jib.
The deck:
- Repair damaged bow pulpit.
- Possibly add additional stanchions (on the fordeck there is about seven or eight feet between the last stanchion and the bow pulpit ... in this dangerous area, an additional stanchion may provide peace of mind).
- Possibly replace stanchions with taller, double wire stanchions (right now the single wire height is just about knee level ... just right to overbalance the skipper if standing and send him swimming, or role him under the line if crawling. Bad height all around).
- Possibly install stern pulpit (a little extra security, although I've never felt threatened while in the cockpit. It would also provide a place to install solar panels or something. If money allows we may see).
- Replace lifelines (30+ years old?).
- Replace forehatch. (IMPORTANT!).
- Possibly add dodger (I really want this, but time and money will be the determining factors).
- Build a bridge deck.
- Change the hatch boards from ½" to ¾" and provide barrel bolts to lock them in place.
- Replace windows (currently they leak ... I have the lexan on-hand, just need to find the time).
- Install additional cockpit drains.
- Install latches to lock the lockers closed (in case of knockdown).
- Install autopilot (I would prefer a vane, but the trip is only 650 miles ... carrying extra batteries would probably be cheaper).
- Possibly work up an emergency rudder that can clamp onto the outboard motor bracket (I believe I read that a couple of folks on Jester lost their rudders. I used to think this was over thinking things, but maybe not. We'll see. I think it would be fairly cheap and easy to work something up that would clamp to the outboard bracket).
- Install a cockpit mounted manual bilge pump.
- Install jack lines and hard points.
Interior:
- Get some type of gimbaled stove (a seaswing or equivalent?).
- Build lee boards or cloths for both the starboard quarter berth (oddly, it is not as secure as you would think on the Seafarer) and the port settee.
- Add batteries and strongly secure.
- Install a cabin manual bilge pump.
- Install a couple of red LED lights to protect night vision.
- Figure out some way to keep the lockers closed in the event of a knockdown.
- Possibly install AIS and/or CARD.
- Connect GPS to DSC VHF and possibly to AIS.
Hull:
- Scrape, sand, inspect, and paint.
- Glass over defunct head thru hull.
Paperwork and miscellaneous:
- Radio licenses?
- Get passport.
- Is insurance a requirement?
- Purchase Bahamas Courtesy flag.
- Purchase Quarantine flag.
Conclusion:
Ugh. This is a top of head list. I'm certain I've missed several items. 19 months doesn't seem like that much time at the moment.
Hopefully, I will edit this top of post message as I proceed down the list. Hmm. It might be time to get a second job ($$$).
The biggest $$$$ is the sails and stays and bottom work. Good used sails would do you or maybe restiching yours.
Not haveing to take something off inorder to do something else is the biggest bug. Most of this is time. figure the summer work only projects.
S/V Godot-
If you need advice, let me know, since I've done most of the things on your list at one point or another. Also, the least expensive way to get LED navigation lights is to get AquaSignal 25 or 40 series nav lights and replace the bulbs with the new LED-based replacements that are now available. If you need more information, let me know.
Quote from: s/v godot on July 21, 2008, 11:09:54 AM
The rig:
- Change to all rope halyards (I'm annoyed by the wire/rope splice).
You too? I cannot stand teh wire-rope halyard on my boat, either. It's not even a proper splice.
Quote
The deck:
- Install autopilot (I would prefer a vane, but the trip is only 650 miles ... carrying extra batteries would probably be cheaper).
Have you considered sheet-to-tiller gear? It is a GREAT alternative if you are not ready to fork out to buy, or take time to design/build/test a homemade vane.
I know I'll get a ton of grief about this, but there is NO WAY I (that's me personally) would 'count on' an electronic autopilot on a week long (or longer) offshore passage. I have read too many stories about the things crapping out when you need them most - broken gears, water intrusion, etc. Most folks seem to recommend carrying a spare - which to me speaks volumes about the reliability of these devices.
Sheet to tiller gear is inexpensive (note, I did NOT say "cheap"), easy to make up and best of all, SIMPLE. No electronics, and you can make up a new set underway if for some reason something happens to your existing set.
Just some thoughts...
Quote
Interior:
- Figure out some way to keep the lockers closed in the event of a knockdown.
I'm going to take the approach mentioned as one time by Lin and Larry Pardey. I will divide the settee cushions into three sections, each about 2 to 2-1/2 feet wide. The bottom of the cushion will form the cover to the settee locker - lift the cushion section, get into the locker.
Now, to 'lock' the lockers down for rough weather, they have what looks like a seatbelt that is bolted down to the locker top. To lock the cushions, down, clip the seatbelt together and pull the strap tight. That's the plan I will shamelessly copy.
Quote
Hopefully, I will edit this top of post message as I proceed down the list. Hmm. It might be time to get a second job ($$$).
Could I ask that you please don't edit the top post? By all means, I am interested in your updates and hearing how you went about ticking things off your list (again, so I can shamelessly copy whatever I can... ;D ;D ), but editing the top post may render subsequent messages into nonsense to future readers of the site.
Snipped for efficiency:
Quote from: s/v godot on July 21, 2008, 11:09:54 AM
The rig:
- Change to all rope halyards (I'm annoyed by the wire/rope splice).
- Acquire a genoa and storm jib.
The deck:
- Possibly add dodger (I really want this, but time and money will be the determining factors).
- Change the hatch boards from ½" to ¾" and provide barrel bolts to lock them in place.
- Replace windows (currently they leak).
Interior:
- Get some type of gimbaled stove (a seaswing or equivalent?).
- Build lee boards or cloths for both the starboard quarter berth
- Possibly install AIS and/or CARD.
- Connect GPS to DSC VHF and possibly to AIS.
Paperwork and miscellaneous:
- Radio licenses?
- Get passport.
- Is insurance a requirement?
- Purchase Bahamas Courtesy flag.
- Purchase Quarantine flag.
I have rope/wire halyards also. Don't much like them. I won't replace them until I have to. Can you get a rigger to take a peek at the splices and give you a recommendation without spending more than it would cost to replace?
I have a 100 working jib and a 135 genny. Offshore I fly the 100 all the time. Maybe you don't need another sail for the Scoot.
Dodgers are really important to comfort offshore, particularly for small boats. Priority.
Barrel bolts are important.
Fix the leaks. I can't think of anything more miserable than leaks. In fact, set yourself up with a standard for wet and dry areas of the boat so you don't find the whole boat is damp five days offshore.
A gimballed stove is important (not critical, but important). Think about what you can cook ahead and reheat offshore. Canned food (like chili) and FoodSaver vacuum sealed meals are great.
Lee clothes are (in my opinion) overrated, particularly on small boats. I'm happier wedged in somewhere on the floor with a camping pad and a sleeping bag under me. Keep you pillow dry.
I'm not a big CARD fan, but maybe I don't know enough. AIS means you have that receiver and a display device (like a laptop) running all the time -- energy sink. GPS to VHF for DSC is an easy, fast, highly beneficial safety aid.
Do the legal stuff. Get the VHF license, the flags, the passport, etc. Insurance is a personal choice. Some marinas may require liability coverage but you can always anchor out.
sail fast, dave
The new GPS map's are AIS friendly, you just need something extra to plug in.
tiller Auto pilots are easy to install and are better now than in the past, Set the sails first and then put on the auto pilot. Check for tension and keep covered. It should not be a problem with a 700 mile run. Much easier on the body.
It's always easy to add things to someone else's list ;D
Quote from: s/v godot on July 21, 2008, 11:09:54 AM
The rig:
- Pull mast and inspect.
- Re-wire VHF antenna.
- Change to all rope halyards (I'm annoyed by the wire/rope splice).
- Probably replace stays, shrouds and hardware (I suspect they are as old as the boat).
- Install spreader boots on ends of spreaders.
- Repair "steaming" light.
- Possibly add masthead LED navigation lights.
- Re-step and tune.
- Acquire a genoa and storm jib.
As you are going to be doing some mast work, how about adding spreader lights? Both for on deck working light and to light up the sail at night to announce your presence to another vessel.
The deck:
On the stanchions how about something radical. remove them altogether :o Sounds like as old not to be relied upon, and even new they are a bit low to be of great use. and physhcogically you may be a lot more careful on deck without them and therefore safer. Plus easier to re-board if the worst does happen. No need to remove the stanchion bases of course. and cheap to do.
- Possibly add dodger (I really want this, but time and money will be the determining factors).
I would definately go for a dodger (FYI they are called spray hoods in this part of world) - if money is tight no need for it to be all singing and dancing and built to withstand a F10. Make it of canvas and pretty much permanent by unbolting instead of being able to fold down neatly out of the way in 5 seconds if it makes construction easier / cheaper. But definately worth having.
- Install additional cockpit drains.
If the cockpit drains are in the right location (i.e. you are not sailing on a tack with 1/2 inch of water that never drains) I would fit larger drains rather than additional ones (if slow draining is the issue you are trying to address). Less holes in the hull and should be less work to fit.
- Possibly work up an emergency rudder that can clamp onto the outboard motor bracket (I believe I read that a couple of folks on Jester lost their rudders. I used to think this was over thinking things, but maybe not. We'll see. I think it would be fairly cheap and easy to work something up that would clamp to the outboard bracket).
Sounds like a good idea. Maybe clamp onto the outboard itself? Prepared = not likely to use! I recall reading about more than a few rudder problems that did not involve losing the rudder - just the ability to steer it. Probably more to do with Wheel Steering - but the "fix" was to pre-drill a small hole in the top outboard edge of the rudder so in an emergency someone could dive and fix a line through and then up the deck each side and even if not able to used to steer would keep the rudder amidships.
- Install autopilot (I would prefer a vane, but the trip is only 650 miles ... carrying extra batteries would probably be cheaper).
In the absence of a Wind vane I would also be tempted by an Autopilot. But IMO also important that the boat can be set up to sail herself, whether this involves a sheet to tiller steering system or simply from balancing the sails / boat will depend on the vessel.......and of course the compromise may be that the most desirable course cannot always be followed depending on boat / wind / sea state - but IMO important that the boat can make progress (or at least steerage) without someone glued to the tiller 24/7, even if not down below having the full 12 hours beauty sleep ;D
Also useful to be able to heave to, really makes life onboard simple - and boat is essentially not going anywhere (tidal stream excepting) if not done so already (yer probably have done it a million times!) then good to practice what works on your boat. Could give you an hours kip (or at least rest) in the place and at the time of your choosing........
Interior:
- Build lee boards or cloths for both the starboard quarter berth (oddly, it is not as secure as you would think on the Seafarer) and the port settee.
I love lee cloths. and cheap as well 8) Mine are permanently fixed in position under the bunk cushions and strung up with clips in 2 seconds flat (obviously good quality clips and eyes firmly secured!) I even use mine in port! (saves the bedding / me falling off at night!).....also good for storing stuff on the bunk when underway. Floor can be good - but can be prone to getting wet.
- Add batteries and strongly secure.
- Install a cabin manual bilge pump.
A bit slow here :P, I am guessing you do have an engine. if an outboard I would consider adding ability to charge the batteries when under power. And also an electric bilge pump. Will make pumping out easier, and gives you more chance to fix any leak rather than being glued to a bilge pump........and with a float switch will start pumping out a lot sooner than you notice! and either with an alarm or just the pump noise / a light will alert you to probs.
As you say, your list was top of your head - above all meant only as ideas. (sorry about the red, looks a bit OTT - but a pig to redo :P)
Thanks for the comments so far. Some comments to the comments, in very random order.
Regarding sheet to tiller steering ... it is gonna happen. I still want the autopilot though. I already have a Simrad TP10 living under my bed. I just need to install it.
My boat has an outboard motor that does charge. Slowly. Maybe just enough to cover the nav lights. I don't plan on using it, though. In fact, I think I may build a cradle for it in the cockpit locker to store it for the trip. However, I now remember I need to add SOLAR PANELS to the list.
Going without stanchions used to be the rule, not the exception. Does it make the sailor more cautious? Maybe, although I really don't trust them as is and do my best to avoid testing them out. Still, I think I'd rather keep them as is than get rid of them all together. Forget about getting back on the boat (actually, another item to add to the list is a boarding ladder). I don't want to fall off in the first place! The plan is to at least go for taller stanchions, a double lifeline setup, and new wire (or dare I suggest rope?). If nothing else, I can throw some netting up on the foredeck that will help contain my (hanked on) jibs when down.
Speaking of jibs, perhaps Auspicious is right and I don't need the genoa. I'll put it onto the luxury list. A storm jib must happen, though. And perhaps a third set of reef points in the main. My main and 100% recently came back from SailCare and look almost new. Hopefully they will hold up as almost new.
I DO have an electric bilge pump. It works pretty well. But if I run out of juice, or big water comes on board and kills my battery, or if the pump motor bites the dust, I'd be up poop creek. I have the space to install a couple of manual pumps and don't see any advantage to not doing it. The peace of mind/cost ratio is favorable. At $79.99, the Plastimo Bilge Pump 1038 (http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1%7C51%7C299222%7C84462%7C315209&id=335969) looks interesting. It would fit the cockpit nicely. I wonder how easy it is to use, and how durable it is. The research is just starting!
(http://www.defender.com/images/502945.jpg)
I have one small cockpit drain that won't even completely clear the cockpit of rain water. At least one, and probably two, additional (big) drain(s) is/are absolutely critical to me. I can live with another hole in the transom.
As a single hander, I'm really excited about AIS. Sure, it takes power. But, there are options out there like the NASA/Sitex AIS RADAR (http://www.si-tex.com/html/ais_radar.html) which are pretty energy efficient. I'm actually hoping that in the next year and a half some better (and cheaper?) solutions come on the market. Running a laptop full time on my little boat just isn't practical. But, maybe it would be possible to connect an AIS receiver (relatively low amps) to a pocket pc (very low amp). I am not aware of any software to make this work; but if I have time (ha!) to do it myself, I may be able to dust off my very rusty programming (and trigonometry) skills and get it to work.
(http://www.si-tex.com/assets/images/AIS_Radar.JPG)
I'm looking into options for LED nav lights. I'm trying to decide if I want to put a tricolor/anchor light on top the mast, or if I'm happy with deck mounted nav lights. I'll be pulling the mast in the next couple of weeks, so I guess I better figure it out. Links to LED replacement bulbs would be welcome, Dan.
Spreader lights. Hmmm. I've never used them. For working the deck at night I've so far been happy enough with a head light. If I need to light the sails up I could just use my million candlepower spot. But, if I'm going to install them, this would be the time. Since I need to fix my steaming light anyhow, perhaps and Aqua Signal Series 25 Masthead / Foredeck Light (http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1%7C17%7C295769%7C320397%7C320408&id=64986) (Defender: $53.99) would be good.
(http://www.defender.com/images/700239.jpg)
I really like the seatbelt method of keeping the lockers closed. It sounds fairly easy and inexpensive. I will definitely consider it.
I have in my head the beginning plans of a hard dodger that might not look horrible on my boat. It would provide a nice place to mount a couple of solar panels. And, I think I can make it easily removable in case I need to get rid of it in a hurry for some reason (hurricane? <shudder> :-\)
I wouldn't mind some additional insight on gimbled stoves. How about the Forspar Mini-Galley (http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1%7C406%7C694%7C319794&id=61006) ($123.40 at Defender), or the Seacook Gimbaled Stove (http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/19696/377%20710%201150/0/Stoves%20Without%20Ovens/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377%20710%201150&Ne=0&Ntt=Stoves%20Without%20Ovens&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&page=CategoryDisplayLevel1&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=5004&subdeptNum=15&classNum=471) ($99.99 at West Marine). Or, maybe even the Origo 1500 (http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1%7C406%7C694%7C319792&id=60336) (Defender: $219.99) with Gimbal (http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1%7C406%7C694%7C319792&id=60397) kit (Defender: $74.99) for a rather larger amount of outlay. At this time I am not ready to take Godot around the world, or even into the deep Caribbean for extended periods, so fuel type and availability is not important to me. I can easily carry enough for a couple of months.
(http://www.defender.com/images/400619.jpg)(http://images.westmarine.com/full/134838.jpg)(http://www.defender.com/images/400409.jpg)
Adam, I installed one of the Plastimo manual pumps on my P19 a few years ago and have one to be installed on the Ariel. I like it for its convenience factor in that it is right where you need it if you are have to be at the helm and pump at the same time. I have not used it out of necessity yet (and hope I never do ;) ) But it does pump well and certainly is out of the way. Like all plastic it will deteriorate in the sun, but since I typically keep my boats covered pretty well it still looks like new.
Tim
OK- I have to reply in sections since it won't accept my post - says it's "too long- upload is full"
So I'll post under this in chunks- ???'
I have 2 SeaCock DOUBLE gimble stove. This unit does not let the wind blow it out and does hold the pot well. Used for 8 months , 2 times a day or more each. 2 complants, they get dirty (OK, I don't know how to cook without making a mess) and if something pushes the knob in it lets out fuel (this is rare, just do not set anything that will lay against it)
I use REI backpacking cookware.
Some of my thoughts on this subject-
"Regarding sheet to tiller steering ... it is gonna happen. I still want the autopilot though. I already have a Simrad TP10 living under my bed. I just need to install it."
Do set up sheet to tiller. Laura and I have steered Tehani for as long as 48 hours using it. Simple, effective and very cheap. Here's an excellent site on the subject. we also carry a Navico Tp 300 and I'm in the process of building a wind vane. I HATE to hand steer offshore- BOOOOORRRRING!!!
http://www.jsward.com/steering/index.shtml
"Going without stanchions used to be the rule, not the exception. Does it make the sailor more cautious? Maybe, although I really don't trust them as is and do my best to avoid testing them out. Still, I think I'd rather keep them as is than get rid of them all together."
I don't trust them to keep me aboard either- but they DO make great places to hang drying clothes and to hang fenders- Grin
"Speaking of jibs, perhaps Auspicious is right and I don't need the genoa."
Sailing east coast waters during the summer would make a Genoa a very good thing. Here in Texas we don't have a lot of use for one- our 100% jib is the workhorse. But when I was over on the east coast cruising, a big genoa and even an assymetrical spinnaker sure was nice- LOTS of light air over there.
"I DO have an electric bilge pump."
So do we, but we also have a Whale Gusher 10 mounted so it can be used from the helm
"I have one small cockpit drain that won't even completely clear the cockpit of rain water. At least one, and probably two, additional (big) drain(s) is/are absolutely critical to me. "
Tehani came with two very small drain holes into the engine well- 5/8ths inch I think, but with the hose kinks, much less. I built a pair of 1 5/8 fiberglass tubes and replaced the wimpy drains with those. We do sometimes get a bit of water in the cockpit when she's running hard, but nothing I can't live with. Besides- the front of the engine well is a 8 by 12 inch opening directly out the engine well.
AIS?? I'll pass for now- much more energy use than I want to provide.
"I'm looking into options for LED nav lights. I'm trying to decide if I want to put a tricolor/anchor light on top the mast, or if I'm happy with deck mounted nav lights. "
Looking into LED nav lights, but darn- it's gonna cost us 150 bucks for 3 bulbs!!! Our bow combo light is mounted up under the top tube on the pulpit, NOT on the deck by the way.
I DO NOT want a mast head anchor light- had one before. I don't think they are in the right place. The people you want to see you while at anchor are the ones in small power boats- they AREN'T looking up- they are looking ACROSS the water. I want my anchor light down low, at roughly eye level. By the way- COLREGS calls for one "in the forepart of the vessel" as part of the regs.
Spreader lights? Never used them, never missed them. I guess they'd be nice, but since I've never had them I really can't say. We won't have them.
The seatbelt idea is pretty decent- ALL of our lockers or opening doors onboard Tehani have finger holes and when you reach in you find a turn button. Those turn buttons are ALWAYS in the locked position, even at anchor or in her home slip. Works for us.
Oh and we do have a cloth set up on the settee to keep us in the thing when heeled. Nice place to sleep, but in rough stuff, the cabin sole works well also. I've used both Grin
I'd love some sort of dodger, but just plain can't figure how to rig one- the boom is already very low, so the dodger would be VERY low- hard to get in and out. Barrel bolts on the drop boards are one our list however.
Stoves- we use an old SeaCook which has a different pot holder than the one pictured and mounts differently. I have converted it to kerosene and we carry a complete spare stove..
Personally I don't care for it, but propane would also be an option, but not the little bottles if you are gonna cruise-
Forget alcohol for long term- it's simply too expensive when you go foreign long term. Or even stateside if you are cooking a lot- it's known as THE most expensive fuel.
Of the three you pictured, I'd choose the Seacook from West. Here's what ours looks like now-
(http://data.sailboatowners.com/photos/1216687067.jpg)
By the way- it was the picture it wouldn't let me post >:(
Adam-
I just installed that same steaming/foredeck light.
You can get the replacement LED bulbs for the AquaSignal 25-series and 40-series fixtures here (http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detail.htm?fno=400&group=851).
As for keeping lockers shut, padlock hasps work quite well. I like the stainless steel Suncor ones, which have can be locked shut without using a padlock, since the eye for the padlock shackle rotates.
(http://img.nauticexpo.com/pdf/repository_ne/21836/4364_97b.jpg)
If you go with solar as your main charging system, get an MPPT charge controller, since it will increase your panels efficiency about 30% over a regular charge controller.
I like the plastimo bilge pumps, and have installed a couple on friends' boats.
Quote from: AdriftAtSea on July 21, 2008, 08:50:54 PM
As for keeping lockers shut, padlock hasps work quite well. I like the stainless steel Suncor ones, which have can be locked shut without using a padlock, since the eye for the padlock shackle rotates.
I was assuming he(we?) were talking about lockers INSIDE the boat, not out in the cockpit. For outside, hasps with turn buttons or the latching kind I have with pins in them both work.
I wouldn't want hasps on inside lockers.
Quote from: s/v godot on July 21, 2008, 07:22:27 PM
Speaking of jibs, perhaps Auspicious is right and I don't need the genoa. I'll put it onto the luxury list. A storm jib must happen, though. And perhaps a third set of reef points in the main. My main and 100% recently came back from SailCare and look almost new. Hopefully they will hold up as almost new.
Don't give up on the genoa, and even think about an asymmetrical spinnaker or similar. Most people outfitting cruising boats tend to buy all sorts of storm sails that never get used. For reducing sail a main with a deep 2nd or a 3rd reef and a small jib (75-85% or so) will do fine for an April run to Bermuda. But odds are good that you'll have light airs for at least part of the trip that time of year, and there's nothing as frustrating as wallowing along undercanvassed, without enough sail to hold her steady and keep her moving... (and it can add day(s) to your trip!) Definately have at least a 135 aboard, and an asymmetrical too if you have the room and the $$.
WRT bilge pumps;
I have the Plastimo also, it is a back up to the two electric pumps I have. If you have not already, it is worth taking a look at Bilge Pumps, employment, care and feeding. (http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=496.0)
Charlie-
You're correct... my bad. :)
As for storm jibs... I'd highly recommend getting a Gale Sail from ATN or something similar. It helps prevent your roller furling genny from unfurling and gives you a very strong, small storm sail. As for the main, I'd second the third reef option. I just had Harding Sails put a third reef in my mainsail for that very reason.
Quote from: AdriftAtSea on July 21, 2008, 11:04:16 PM
Charlie-
You're correct... my bad. :)
As for storm jibs... I'd highly recommend getting a Gale Sail from ATN or something similar. It helps prevent your roller furling genny from unfurling and gives you a very strong, small storm sail. As for the main, I'd second the third reef option. I just had Harding Sails put a third reef in my mainsail for that very reason.
Hanked on sails. I would like to get roller furling, but not enough to spend the money.
Then a small storm jib would be a good idea. :) I went with a Gale Sail since I wanted the security of it preventing the 150% genny from unfurling... that would be a disaster. :)
We had our working jib made with reef points. It's built from 6.5 oz Contender super cruise cloth, triple stitched, and reefs to storm jib size.
Very happy with reefing jibs. Had one on my tri that was quite successful
Our main is also the same cloth, also triple stitched and has three reef points in it. I hope I never need the third one :D
I agree on needing light air sails. I've found many many more days of very light winds, particularly along the southern part of the east coast, than I have heavy air. Or at least heavy enough to need storm sails.
Sailing the Chesapeake, light air sails would be a bonus. But I've gotten along ok without. I usually don't sail much during the middle of summer which is when the light air is most obnoxious.
The reason heavy weather sails are higher on my list is that while I'm less likely to need them, if I DO need them it is because things have gotten bad. The Scoot will not allow me to go run into some safe harbor to hide if the weather turns nasty.
Light air probably wouldn't kill me, unless I died of boredom.
Very true... :)
QuoteLight air probably wouldn't kill me, unless I died of boredom.
I like to keep sails simple and think along Charlie's lines. The electra has a new 6oz main with 2 deeper than normal reef points, working jib with a deep reef point and a light weight 150.While not the 'perfect' set up...it offers lots of combos for varied conditions with only 3 sails.
Quote from: s/v godot on July 22, 2008, 06:57:13 AM
The reason heavy weather sails are higher on my list is that while I'm less likely to need them, if I DO need them it is because things have gotten bad. The Scoot will not allow me to go run into some safe harbor to hide if the weather turns nasty.
Adam, how bad is "bad weather"? At what point are you planning to need a storm jib?
It's not that I disagree with your reasoning here, I just want to add that The Scoot is "only" about a week or so under way. The wx forecast for that period SHOULD allow (hehe, I know, I know) you to avoid a so-called "storm."
My point is that I think it may actually be less likely you would need a storm jib on THIS particular trip than light air sails. The percentage of gales along the Scoot route is actually quite low; any really bad stuff is more likely to be from some kind of organized system that you (and the forecasters) can see coming, at least a few days out. Further, a one week window is "fairly" tight - IF you trust the offshore forecasts and your own ability to read wx charts and other weather info.
Statistically, we only run about a 3% chance of hitting storm conditions as sea while crossing an ocean; I'm sure the chance on The Scoot is much smaller.
Quote
Light air probably wouldn't kill me, unless I died of boredom.
At sea in the swell with no way-on, under canvassed is among THE WORST to me. True, the light air itself won't kill us, but "slat, boom, BANG," as well as just not moving anywhere have tremendous psychological impacts. I have not experienced this for any great length of time (only a few hours), and it was enough to convince me that Light Air presents a very real problem that has to be solved.
Can't sleep, the boat feels dead - just wallowing - and morale can sink fast. I can see why folks fire up the iron jib in that circumstance. To be moving at ALL is relief in a sense. I can but imagine what it would be like for days at a time, and I shudder.
Ultimately, and not on the list for Scoot preps, I hope to have a nylon main as well as a nylon drifter (or simply large genny). It's my long term goal to have the ability to capture even the faintest hint of moving air - even 0.5 kt is SOMETHING, but with true light air sails, I hope to better that in anything but a clock-calm.
When I was in the Bahamas and moving North on the ICW the fronts was comming through every week. I do not know what "Storm conditions" is meant by but you will more than likely have to weather a front before the end of the Scoot with no place to duck into unless heading south via Fl.
Snipped again for efficiency.
Quote from: s/v godot on July 21, 2008, 07:22:27 PM
I think I may build a cradle for it in the cockpit locker to store it for the trip.
Speaking of jibs, perhaps Auspicious is right and I don't need the genoa.
I have the space to install a couple of manual pumps
But, there are options out there like the NASA/Sitex AIS RADAR (http://www.si-tex.com/html/ais_radar.html) which are pretty energy efficient.
I'm trying to decide if I want to put a tricolor/anchor light on top the mast, or if I'm happy with deck mounted nav lights.
Spreader lights.
I really like the seatbelt method of keeping the lockers closed.
I have in my head the beginning plans of a hard dodger that might not look horrible on my boat.
so fuel type and availability is not important to me.
I think the outboard cradle idea is a good one. Grog for that. Think about getting it on the mount at sea if you do need it (hint: topping lift through block at end of boom or such to avoid dropping it in the drink).
I stand by my comment on the headsails. Offshore in light air with swell running you end up with the wind falling out of the sail a lot. If you are off the wind a spinnaker or gennaker is a good investment.
On the other hand, consider putting reef points in your hank-on jib. It is less work (less time) on the foredeck to reef the jib than to change it. Also less money and less storage space (leaving room for that spinnaker you probably will be happy to have).
Get the third reef in the main. I've used mine twice and been thrilled to have it both times.
You can probably only use one manual pump at a time, so get *one*.
I forgot about the NASA AIS unit. Good idea.
Definitely get a masthead tricolor. Aside from the power benefit, it gets your lights up out of the swells where you might actually be seen.
I like the idea of hasps. I have padlocks on mine in the marina and use small stainless carabiners when sailing. I don't want to be hunting for a key offshore.
However you do it, you'll be glad of a dodger.
Most 10# propane bottles fit nicely in stainless steel fender brackets on the rail. It doesn't take much to rig it to feed both a BBQ and a small gimbal stove. The 1# bottles are really expensive, even at home, and it doesn't take long to pay for the adapters and hose to make it all work out. YMMV.
sail fast, dave
Quote from: Lynx on July 22, 2008, 10:14:44 AM
When I was in the Bahamas and moving North on the ICW the fronts was comming through every week. I do not know what "Storm conditions" is meant by but you will more than likely have to weather a front before the end of the Scoot with no place to duck into unless heading south via Fl.
I cannot speak for others, but "storm" to me means something very specific: Beaufort Force 10. That's sustained winds 48-55 knots. This is not the same thing as a passing front, or even high winds from a short lived squall.
However, that's not to say that those are conditions that need to be reached before one actually flies a so-called 'storm' jib. ;)
Instead of the 10# propane tanks, I picked up two 16# composite propane tanks. :) They let you see how much propane is actually in the tank as the sides are translucent. :) I'm in the process of designing a locker of some sort for them at the moment. :)
Those Plastimo bilge pumps are nice because you don't have to worry about losing or storing the handle. I think they are cheapest here:
http://www.marisafe.com/Store/viewItem.asp?ID=451011375&CID=45100000&FLT=451011375
Marisafe also has good deals on other equipment. I got the 20' jacklines and they are a good length for boats in the 23-25' range:
http://www.marisafe.com/store/viewItem.asp?ID=353510790&CID=35350000
Regarding the storm sail: I'm not sure when I will need it. I haven't explored that part of my boats performance envelope yet. My guess is it could go up by around 35 knots. I don't know for certain. The last time I sailed in wind that heavy I had way too much sail up and no real easy way to reduce it outside of taking sail off. Since then I've added a second reef point to the main; but I haven't had a chance to use it. I don't yet know how to balance things out. I will be sailing for a couple of weeks this September and/or October. Perhaps I'll be able to test things out a bit more.
I don't trust weather reports. At all. I've been out in clear, pleasant weather when the radio was claiming I was in the midst of a severe thunderstorm. And I've been rail down and white knuckled when NOAA was reporting calm. If they can't even figure out what is happening RIGHT NOW, how can I expect them to predict the weather a week out?
I probably wouldn't do a spinnaker. I've never flown one, and I don't really understand how best to use them. I am well aware, however, of the dreaded Spinnaker Wrap. It isn't worth it to me. Besides, I'll probably be against the wind most of the way to Bahamas, and shouldn't have to worry too much about down wind sailing until the return.
I'll keep an eye on Bacon's and see if they come up with a suitable 135% or so Genoa for a good price. I hear drifters are fairly easy to use downwind sails. I've never seen one, though.
I'm not going to hook up a full propane system. It just doesn't make sense at this point. I'm not cruising long term, just for a few weeks. 1# propane cannisters will work just fine for this trip. Who knows what the future will bring? If I take off long term (and assuming I keep the Seafarer) I may consider putting in a bigger. better system. In the meantime, KISS.
The reason I was planning on a pump in the cockpit and one in the cabin is for flexibility, not because I expected to use them both at the same time. Plus, should one stop working I will have a backup unit. Maybe only a cockpit pump should be on the mandatory list, while the cabin pump would be on the optional list. I will think on that some.
Ok. You've all convinced me. Even if it is ugly and I have to throw it away after the event, I'll try and put up some kind of dodger. I have some ideas for a hard dodger (I feel comfortable working wood, not so much tube and fabric).
Adam,
I'm with you on the spinnaker. One came with my boat and I have never used it. I was on several boats that were using one and it seemed best to have more than one pearson on board to handle it. For the down wind sail back to Beaufort, I'll just use a genoa.
As for a storm jib, one did come with the boat and as the old saying goes,"if you have one, you won't need it ::)" so I'll be taking mine along.
I have two reef points in my main and will be putting a third row in. It should be cheaper than a trisail and easier to reef.
As for cooking, I'm making a hanging(swinging) stove out of a Coleman camp stove and a 6" aluminum pipe. I'll try to post a picture of it later when I get it finished. One gal. of gas equals about 4-5# of propane so it should be cheaper.
Other up grades will be new standing rigging and some, if not all, running rigging. Reinforcing(a layer or two of fiberglass) the inside of the v-berth. Making sure the v-berth is water tight(gaskets for the lids etc.) Just things that will help stem the flow of water if I hit something. James Baldwin has a lot of good advice on his web site www./atomvoyages.com and he should know a thing or two about fitting out a boat ;D.
Fair winds,
Pappy Jack
Quote from: s/v godot on July 21, 2008, 07:22:27 PM
Or, maybe even the Origo 1500 (http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1%7C406%7C694%7C319792&id=60336) (Defender: $219.99) with Gimbal (http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1%7C406%7C694%7C319792&id=60397) kit (Defender: $74.99) for a rather larger amount of outlay. At this time I am not ready to take Godot around the world, or even into the deep Caribbean for extended periods, so fuel type and availability is not important to me. I can easily carry enough for a couple of months.
(http://www.defender.com/images/400409.jpg)
I have an Origo onboard that came with the boat (In this part of the world it is a common replacement for a gas (propane?) installation that has rusted out or is no longer gas safety compliant for insurance purposes). I am quite happy with it. Seems to be built well (must be at least 5 years old and whilst not looking new - I would not be in the least surprised at another 5 years or so - certainly not the same as many gas hob installations I have seen / had that seem to rust before yer eyes!) and also simple to use. Always a plus with me that one! Having said that I am not spending extended time onboard or cooking for more than 1. and simple grub at that!
For short term use I have no plans to change, albeit mine is a double hob - but long term voyaging I would want something that consumes a bit less fuel / does so in a manner that does not require quite so much filling up.
Note - fronts moving through will produce sustained winds 30 to 40 and seas 12 to 16 Plus rogue for 8+ hrs.
What a ride!
Quote from: nmwarren on July 22, 2008, 01:00:00 PM
Those Plastimo bilge pumps are nice because you don't have to worry about losing or storing the handle. I think they are cheapest here:
http://www.marisafe.com/Store/viewItem.asp?ID=451011375&CID=45100000&FLT=451011375
Marisafe also has good deals on other equipment. I got the 20' jacklines and they are a good length for boats in the 23-25' range:
http://www.marisafe.com/store/viewItem.asp?ID=353510790&CID=35350000
Very good prices. But Google flagged the site as an Attack Site!
http://safebrowsing.clients.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?client=Firefox&hl=en-US&site=http://www.marisafe.com/membership/default.asp
I have a question...if it's blowing THAT hard where a reefed jib would be overpowered...I'm thinking that a drogue for about $150 might be money better spent than a storm jib? Any thoughts????
Quote from: Frank on July 22, 2008, 05:30:43 PM
I have a question...if it's blowing THAT hard where a reefed jib would be overpowered...I'm thinking that a drogue for about $150 might be money better spent than a storm jib? Any thoughts????
I'm assuming that a reefed jib is about equivalent to a storm jib. For a trip like this I think I'd do one or the other.
I think a progression of steps would be used to deal with deteriorating weather. Depending on the boat, it might go something like ...
Remove Genoa and fly working jib
Reef Main to first point
Reef Main to second point
Remove working jib and fly storm jib
Deep reef main or fly storm trisail
Heave to under whatever sail is appropriate
Drop sail and stream the drogue
A good DVD on the subject is" Storm Tactics" by Lin and Larry Pardey. I have it and have looked at it about three times so far and God only knows how many times before The Scoot starts ;D. They discus the use of para-anchors, heaving to, and much more.
Fair winds,
Pappy Jack
A reefed roller furling jib is not the same as a storm jib. A reefed hank on jib might be equivalent. The main difference is shape. A reefed RF jib is going to have a baggy shape, which a storm jib won't.
BTW, I wouldn't get the jacklines there...since most recommendations for jacklines suggest a minimum breaking strength at 6,000 lbs. :) The ones at the site you mention have a BL of 4,400 lbs.
Quote from: s/v godot on July 22, 2008, 05:43:57 PM
Quote from: Frank on July 22, 2008, 05:30:43 PM
I have a question...if it's blowing THAT hard where a reefed jib would be overpowered...I'm thinking that a drogue for about $150 might be money better spent than a storm jib? Any thoughts????
I'm assuming that a reefed jib is about equivalent to a storm jib. For a trip like this I think I'd do one or the other.
I think a progression of steps would be used to deal with deteriorating weather. Depending on the boat, it might go something like ...
Remove Genoa and fly working jib
Reef Main to first point
Reef Main to second point
Remove working jib and fly storm jib
Deep reef main or fly storm trisail
Heave to under whatever sail is appropriate
Drop sail and stream the drogue
My name is Dave and I am a spinnaker ho.
"Hi Dave"
Adam, if you want to slide over to Annapolis and get some spinnaker time I'd be happy to take you sailing with me. Like so many things, the difficulty is overblown and the benefits under-recognized.
Offer is open to others as well.
sail fast, dave
Quote from: s/v godot on July 22, 2008, 05:43:57 PM
I think a progression of steps would be used to deal with deteriorating weather. Depending on the boat, it might go something like ...
Remove Genoa and fly working jib
Reef Main to first point
No doubt each boat is different.
The Alberg 30 and similar 60's era CCA boats have largish mains and comparatively smallish foretriangles. So, the first downshift, for me at least, is to reef the main even while still flying a genny.
It all comes down to balance. On my boat (and yours may be VERY different, so I don't intend this to sound like a one-size-fits-all point), if I were to drop the genny, hoist a working jib and keep the full main, I'd be overcome with weather helm.
I've flown the reefed main and genny offshore in about 17 kts and there was just enough weather helm for the boat to feel 'alive.' I could have driven harder, with full main, just chose not to...we were still running 5.5-6 kts. I actually reefed while still in the bay, believing that I'd rather reef "inside" than fool with it outside. The outside conditions were right on the cusp, so I could have been okay either way...seas were running about 5 ft on average, so it probably would have been a LITTLE better with full main from a steadying the boat standpoint.
Quote
Heave to under whatever sail is appropriate
Drop sail and stream the drogue
Oh boy. :)
We've had whole threads on this debate. The Pardey camp holds that heaving-to is FAR better than dropping sail, and they've done so in upwards of 85 kts and breaking seas.
This 'heavy weather' debate will rage forever so long as folks go to sea. Here's to hoping none of us have to put these tactics to use in "survival" conditions.
Quote from: Captain Smollett on July 23, 2008, 11:52:40 AM
It all comes down to balance. On my boat (and yours may be VERY different, so I don't intend this to sound like a one-size-fits-all point), if I were to drop the genny, hoist a working jib and keep the full main, I'd be overcome with weather helm.
John is spot on here. On my Capri 22 it made sense to reduce heel but going to a smaller headsail.
On Auspicious, as long as I have the working jib up, I go to a third reef on the main before reducing the headsail.
"Hi Dave",
You're probably right about the difficulty of using spinnakers and might give it a second thought. There are some people at my sail club that are very adept at using this sail and I might prevail upon them to enlighten me as to there use. I'd love to have you teach me but it would be a trip of over a thousand miles to get to your waters ::).
The only time I'd probable use it would be on the return trip and could always use a genoa instead. It would be a matter of my comfort zone if you know what I mean :D.
Fair winds,
Pappy Jack
Quote from: Auspicious on July 23, 2008, 11:34:15 AM
My name is Dave and I am a spinnaker ho.
"Hi Dave"
Adam, if you want to slide over to Annapolis and get some spinnaker time I'd be happy to take you sailing with me. Like so many things, the difficulty is overblown and the benefits under-recognized.
Offer is open to others as well.
sail fast, dave
I'll take you up on that offer! I'm available this weekend. :D
Seriously, I've never flown one and would really like to try it out. Let me know when is good.
(Sunday winds are forecast for 5-10 NW. If you can believe the forecast this far in advanced).
Let me check with my girlfriend to see if I have plans I don't know about. <grin> Back to you soonest.
I'm at Chesapeake Harbour Marina in Annapolis.
sail fast, dave
s/v godot -
Free advice -- and we all know what that is worth!
So, here's my contribution:
Quote[Change the hatch boards from ½" to ¾" and provide barrel bolts to lock them in place./quote]
A. Get one of the panels cut from high impact, see-through plex, for your 3/4 hatch boards. You never know, it just might start to sprinkle and you might want to watch from inside while reading a classics comic. ::)
B. Barrel bolts are a pain in the butt. Be sure you can prevent them from locking into position in bad seas if you batten down. They have a mind of there own and tend to slide into the locked position just when you don't want them to. And, you know what I say when I get locked out of the house in the rain, @!%@##%^&&&@* !!!!! >:(
QuoteInstall a cabin manual bilge pump.
It's nice to have a pump in the cockpit. That way you don't get seasick as the water come up to your nose. :'(
Quotework up an emergency rudder
Now there's a good idea. Why didn't I think of that? It gets really tedious when you have to steer by sail.
But, in any case, never go offshore without an emergency tiller.
Sounds like a project. Enjoy!
s/v godot -
Free advice -- for what is worth!
QuoteChange the hatch boards from ½" to ¾" and provide barrel bolts to lock them in place
.
A. Get one of the panels cut from high impact, see-through plex, for your 3/4 hatch boards. You never know, it just might start to sprinkle and you might want to watch from inside while reading a classics comic. ;D
B. Barrel bolts are a pain. Be sure you can prevent them from locking into position if you batten down. They have a mind of their own and tend to slide into the locked position just when you don't want them to. And, you know what I say when I get locked out of the house in the rain, @!%@##%^&&&@* !!!!!
QuoteInstall a cabin manual bilge pump.
It's nice to have a pump in the cockpit. That way you don't get seasick as the water come up to your knees.
Quotework up an emergency rudder
Now there is a good idea. Why didn't I think of that? It get's really tedious when you have to steer by sail.
But, in any case, never go offshore without an emergency tiller.
Sounds like a project. Enjoy!
Instead of barrel bolts, I used fast pins to secure the drop boards. Fast pins work pretty well and can not accidentally lock you out of your cabin. IIRC, getting locked out of the cabin is what was one of the major problems Heather Neill had on her Flicka, and was partially responsible IMHO for her calling off her voyage.
The dropboards on my boat are made from 3/8" polycarbonate. Very tough and they're tinted heavily, so it allows you to see out while retaining a good deal of privacy.
A high-capacity manual bilge pump should be accessible in both the cockpit and the cabin. One should be installed in each location.
An emergency rudder is always a good thing. If your boat is wheel-steered, an emergency tiller is too.
Quote from: Frank on July 22, 2008, 05:30:43 PM
I have a question...if it's blowing THAT hard where a reefed jib would be overpowered...I'm thinking that a drogue for about $150 might be money better spent than a storm jib? Any thoughts????
Hi Frank, There is different thoughts on a drogue. A seperate thread would be good as I know of data ONLY for big boats.
IF you are going down wind I think a small storm jib would be OK unless conditions was going to get to bad to take it down. I do not like being thrown up and down 15+ feet every 3 seconds on the bow of a boat. I suggest that you try it in 15+ winds. Putting up and taking down and then in higher.
On edit: your speed may be the best factor on what jib to use. I think that with a 3rd reefed main in winds more than 30+ mph you will not need a jib of any kind and will be thinking about ways to reduce speed.
Quote from: Shipscarver on July 23, 2008, 11:12:05 PM
A. Get one of the panels cut from high impact, see-through plex, for your 3/4 hatch boards. You never know, it just might start to sprinkle and you might want to watch from inside while reading a classics comic. ;D
B. Barrel bolts are a pain. Be sure you can prevent them from locking into position if you batten down. They have a mind of their own and tend to slide into the locked position just when you don't want them to. And, you know what I say when I get locked out of the house in the rain, @!%@##%^&&&@* !!!!!
Quote from: AdriftAtSea on July 24, 2008, 06:16:46 AM
Instead of barrel bolts, I used fast pins to secure the drop boards. Fast pins work pretty well and can not accidentally lock you out of your cabin. IIRC, getting locked out of the cabin is what was one of the major problems Heather Neill had on her Flicka, and was partially responsible IMHO for her calling off her voyage.
I guess I may be thinking along different lines regards the barrel bolts. I am planning on installing them inside the cabin between the companionway frame and the companionway (or hatch) drop boards. As long as the main hatch can be slid open, I should be able to always reach in and bolt or unbolt the drop boards. However, if you are concerned about the main hatch getting stuck shut, well, that is a different story. Perhaps a quick connect pin (or the previously mentioned carabiner) setup for either inside or out would be the best choice. It seems pretty darned unlikely that a pin or carabiner would somehow manage to fly up and lock the main hatch unexpectedly.
Quote from: AdriftAtSea on July 24, 2008, 06:16:46 AM
The dropboards on my boat are made from 3/8" polycarbonate. Very tough and they're tinted heavily, so it allows you to see out while retaining a good deal of privacy.
Hmm. How strong is polycarbonate? Would it be worthwhile to replace my plywood drop boards with it instead of beefing up to the next size plywood? Would the 3/8 poly flex enough to pop out of the frame if, say, a 250 lbs sailor was thrown into it? I presume it would be strong enough not to break. Heck, I'd probably use 1/2" anyhow (to fit in the existing track). Worth considering. If I don't replace the whole board, maybe I'll cut a view hole in one of the hatches and cover it with the poly sheet. Hmm. I'll think on this further.
Quote from: s/v godot on July 24, 2008, 10:13:38 AM
Hmm. How strong is polycarbonate?
Lexan is polycarbonate. Also used in automotive safety glass and bullet proof glass has layers of polycarbonate.
So, it's purty strong. ;D
Quote from: Captain Smollett on July 24, 2008, 10:32:21 AM
Quote from: s/v godot on July 24, 2008, 10:13:38 AM
Hmm. How strong is polycarbonate?
Lexan is polycarbonate. Also used in automotive safety glass and bullet proof glass has layers of polycarbonate.
So, it's purty strong. ;D
I have a polycarbonate hatchboard for both my boats, and although it is strong enough I wonder if it might not flex enough to be popped out under pressure. I have not checked what the thickness is on mine (it may be just 1/4") in which thicker may make the difference.
The 3/8" stuff is strong enough that I can stand on the edge of a dropboard in the companionway and not have it pop out on me. :) 1/4" Lexan can withstand 200 ft-lbs of impact force according to the specs sheet... so it's pretty strong stuff.
Lexan is also used in Riot Shields, Face masks for sports like Hockey and other high-impact situations. The major problem with Lexan and other polycarbonates is that they yellow under UV exposure. Most manufacturers make a version that is coated with an anti-UV layer.
Quote from: s/v godot on July 23, 2008, 04:21:03 PM
Quote from: Auspicious on July 23, 2008, 11:34:15 AM
Adam, if you want to slide over to Annapolis and get some spinnaker time I'd be happy to take you sailing with me. Like so many things, the difficulty is overblown and the benefits under-recognized.
Offer is open to others as well.
sail fast, dave
I'll take you up on that offer! I'm available this weekend. :D
Sunday midday does work for me. Still interested?
sail fast, dave
Quote from: Auspicious on July 24, 2008, 03:20:37 PM
Sunday midday does work for me. Still interested?
sail fast, dave
Absolutely!! I'll PM my info to you.
Quote from: AdriftAtSea on July 24, 2008, 06:16:46 AM
Instead of barrel bolts, I used fast pins to secure the drop boards. Fast pins work pretty well and can not accidentally lock you out of your cabin. IIRC, getting locked out of the cabin is what was one of the major problems Heather Neill had on her Flicka, and was partially responsible IMHO for her calling off her voyage.
The dropboards on my boat are made from 3/8" polycarbonate. Very tough and they're tinted heavily, so it allows you to see out while retaining a good deal of privacy.
A high-capacity manual bilge pump should be accessible in both the cockpit and the cabin. One should be installed in each location.
An emergency rudder is always a good thing. If your boat is wheel-steered, an emergency tiller is too.
I made a single hatch board from 3/4" plywood as an emergency/storm board. It also doubles as spare wood for repairs if needed. I store it under the cushions in the vee berth. An emergency front hatch cover, pre made to screw down to the opening is also a good idea. As are some drywall screws for quick repairs.
QuoteI guess I may be thinking along different lines regards the barrel bolts. I am planning on installing them inside the cabin between the companionway frame and the companionway (or hatch) drop boards. As long as the main hatch can be slid open, I should be able to always reach in and bolt or unbolt the drop boards.[quote]
There will come a time when you want everything battened down, and to stay at the helm. Be sure you (as mentioned) don't end up like Heather, getting betten up and sooaked with nowhere to go. It was a good thing she was able to bust into the cabin once she got desperate enough!
Sorry guys, I intended to quote the two posts below into the thread; Oars, outboards, or.... row, row, row your boat! (http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=211.0) I ended up splitting the thread before I quoted the posts... so here are the two posts that were originally in this thread. :P
I wanted to copy them to Oars, outboards, or.... row, row, row your boat! (http://[url=http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=211.0) because they add to a great discussion on using oars to move small boats...
Quote from: OptiMystic on July 25, 2008, 06:12:23 AM
Have you thought about a sculling oar? I am making a break down oar from and old broken fiberglass mast a friend gave me. In light air, it would give me move me some (in a light boat like mine, 3+ kts might be possible, but 2 is more likely) and in the odd event of waves without wind, keep the nose in the right direction. Downside is that you can't do anything else while sculling. It could also function as an emergency rudder and emergency spar.
and;
Quote from: okawbow on July 25, 2008, 09:05:15 AM
Sculling oars are great to have on a sailboat! I made mine from a 12' cedar 2x4 riped to 2" wide. I notched the end for a 1x6 cedar blade x 2' long. Glued and screwed, it was plenty strong. It proved invaluable for anchoring, short term propulsion, emergency steering, and most of all; it helped me get unstuck from three groundings. I keep it just inside the stanchions on the port side of my 24 footer.
I have been giving some thought to an alternate hatch on my boat. Even though I don't really plan to do the really heavy stuff, weather can turn quick. Anyway, I am thinking about making a one piece hatch board that has gasket material or weather seal or whatever around the outer perimeter. After it is slid in, brackets will be screwed into the hatch door from the inside to hold it tightly in place. It will be a door frame really. I just plan to do the slide in so I can easily revert to drop boards again if this doesn't work out. About 2" in from the edges all the way around, I will cut out a door. I will make a lip for the door around the frame so it can be weather proofed. It will be hinged at the top on the outside. It will likely also be cut in half and hinged on the inside in the middle so it folds when opened. Down near the bottom on each side, I would use simple "hillbilly barn door latches" that could be turned from either side If this works out well, I would add a hatch window. The idea is that it is open and lying folded (when I think through this part, I am almost certain it has to be cut in half and hinged on the inside) on the cabin roof, probably bungied to the mast so it doesn't flip down accidentally (OW!). To close it, just unbungie and flip it down *I ould probably put a handle to genttly lower it) and flip the latches. There are two latches because I think that is sturdier and they are likely to get knoced unlatched accidentally sometimes, but probably not both at once. If the cabin were pooped, I would expect it to leak a little, but not too much. Anyway, that's my idea. I have no sketches or pics, so hopefully my explanation is clear. I bet such things exist already.
Had a nice sail with Adam today. We're both exhausted. <grin>
Only a little spinnaker time -- I have a new spinnaker sock that I'd never used before. It turned out to be a lot of work. If it doesn't get easier the next two or three times I'm going back to flying the chute the old fashioned way.
We got chased off the water by a nasty line of thunderstorms. We headed back to my slip with an overturned boat and people in the water being dealt with over the radio. After we tied up, a second line of storms turned 40 boats near Fairview Beach (presumably a race) into a circus of broached and knocked down boats. MD State Troopers where in the air with USCG, MD and VA counties firefighters, and local police all responding on the water.
Interesting day.
Quote from: Auspicious on July 27, 2008, 05:19:04 PM
Had a nice sail with Adam today. We're both exhausted. <grin>
No pictures?
It didn't happen...
;D
(Bet it not happening was fun!)
Two cameras. No pictures. Sorry. Next time you'll have to come along. <grin>
My favorite line of the day: "Geez, I'm only 40." Spoken by a tired Adam after grinding up the chute and before grinding up the main. <evil grin>
I hope Adam enjoyed himself. He is a self taught sailor who showed all the characteristics of a great guest. Aside from a lot of halyard grinding, he picked up the way I coil line and did them all up my way, he communicated effectively on the boat, he was a good helmsman noting the differences of my boat from his and make a useful conversation of it, maintained a great attitude as the thunderstorms rolled over us, and basically fit in wonderfully on a boat very different from his own.
I only hope I can be as good a guest on S/V Godot someday as Adam was on Auspicious.
sail fast, sail far, dave
Auspicious is a much bigger boat than Godot. Some lessons where learned.
1. Those are much, much bigger sails. It took several minutes to get the spinnaker up (with a couple of breather breaks) and my arms felt like rubber afterward. Dave was trying out a new spinnaker sock, so it is very likely the technique of raising it was not properly established yet. It was hard, hard work, even with a big winch on the mast.
2. Exhaustion does not help. Lots of sub lessons can be learned here. The night before I had an emergency call out for work. So, at ten pm I sucked down an energy drink to get me through the night. I got home early morning and couldn't get to sleep for awhile, so that when I did get up I was still rather exhausted. So, another energy drink as I head out the door to go sailing. It kept me awake fine, but I'm afraid at times I had a hard time expressing myself as my mind was in a semi coherent state. While cranking up the spinnaker I began to feel, well, a bit green, and shortly later felt downright ill. A different boat with an unfamiliar motion, a body overloaded with stimulants, and a mind that was working a bit sluggishly I believe all contributed to being seasick. Fortunately I recovered fairly rapidly once I was able to lay down for a few minutes. I HAD thought I could use energy drinks as a crutch for the first day of The Scoot (http://thescoot.com) as I gained sea room. I no longer think that is a good idea. After the sail, I sucked down yet ANOTHER energy drink as I had to meet my wife and inlaws for dinner. This morning I have a hangover, without touching a single drop of alcohol :(.
3. I need to make it to the gym more. I'm awfully out of shape.
My favorite quote of the day was actually from listening to the mayday call on the radio. The coast guard responded to the boat calling mayday by asking what the nature of their emergency was. The boat responded "we're a sailboat, so we're fine. A barge though has turned over." (I'm not sure what they meant by barge. Surely not a big commercial barge. Perhaps a pontoon boat?). BTW, I don't know the outcome of this event or any of the others. I sincerely hope everyone came through without serious injury or loss of life.
(oh, btw, to show you my thought processes, I actually messed up my age. I'm only 39. I just felt 40. ::))
Thanks Adam such an important reminder, for something like SCOOT we need to be in our best shape with quite a bit of endurance at the ready.
Adam,
I am another hopeless caffiene addict. It amazes me how we keep using it to prop ourselves up even when we keep proving time and again that it really doesn't work on muscles at all and even the effects on mental alertness are questionable at best. Awake, yes, alert, well... ;D
In one of his books, Reese Palley suggests that one lays off the caffeine for a couple of days before taking off for the briney blue. Then to use it as a "magic elixir" iirc. I for one will be doing this on The Scoot. I know I'll go through withdrawal :'( for those days but what the heck, I think it'll be worth it.
Fair winds,
Pappy Jack
New storm jib (http://www.kellyhansonsails.com/apps/webstore/products/show/147769) for $185?
3-3½% of I2 = shorthanded storm jib size recommendation
3% x 28.52 = 24.36 sq-ft
3.5% x 28.52 = 28.43 sq-ft
Kelly-Hanson Sails (http://www.kellyhansonsails.com) has a 28□' storm jib for $185. This sounds like a very good price to me, and certainly affordable enough that I can put one on Godot for The Scoot (http://thescoot.com) without financial guilt.
An update on the original list at the top of this post...
Quote from: s/v godot on July 21, 2008, 11:09:54 AM
The rig:
- Pull mast and inspect. Done. Looks good.
- Re-wire VHF antenna. Done. I also installed a new PVC conduit in the mast for all the wires which has REALLY quieted things down.
- Change to all rope halyards (I'm annoyed by the wire/rope splice). Done. It works great and is more pleasant to use.
- Probably replace stays, shrouds and hardware (I suspect they are as old as the boat). Done, done, and done. Old wire looked fine, turnbuckles didn't. Replaced the whole set just to be sure.
- Install spreader boots on ends of spreaders. Done.
- Repair "steaming" light. Installed new steaming/deck light. The steaming light is LED.
- Possibly add masthead LED navigation lights. Won bid for new masthead tricolor on ebay ... they sent the wrong part. By the time the right light arrived the mast was back up. Oh, well. It was only a nice to have anyhow.
- Re-step and tune. Done. I went to tune the mast myself and found I couldn't make it vertical before running out of wire on the starboard shrouds. i was unhappy and complained to my rigger who looked at it himself. It turns out the mast wasn't crooked at all; but the boat has some permanent heel to it. Rigger did the tuning for free after checking it out, which is just as well.
- Acquire a genoa and storm jib. Not yet.
The deck:
- Repair damaged bow pulpit.
- Possibly add additional stanchions (on the fordeck there is about seven or eight feet between the last stanchion and the bow pulpit ... in this dangerous area, an additional stanchion may provide peace of mind).
- Possibly replace stanchions with taller, double wire stanchions (right now the single wire height is just about knee level ... just right to overbalance the skipper if standing and send him swimming, or role him under the line if crawling. Bad height all around).
- Possibly install stern pulpit (a little extra security, although I've never felt threatened while in the cockpit. It would also provide a place to install solar panels or something. If money allows we may see).
- Replace lifelines (30+ years old?).
- Replace forehatch. (IMPORTANT!). Done. I built a new wooden hatch which looked really spiffy in my basement. When I installed it on Godot, however, it just didn't look right. The hatch looks traditional. The boat doesn't. It reminds me of the time I saw a really HUGE biker riding a really SMALL motorcycle. Odd. I did take it sailing in some nasty weather and had waves brake on the foredeck and no water made it inside, even without the gasketing I haven't installed yet, so it will probably stay. At least for a while.
- Possibly add dodger (I really want this, but time and money will be the determining factors).
- Build a bridge deck.
- Change the hatch boards from ½" to ¾" and provide barrel bolts to lock them in place.
- Replace windows (currently they leak ... I have the lexan on-hand, just need to find the time).
- Install additional cockpit drains.
- Install latches to lock the lockers closed (in case of knockdown).
- Install autopilot (I would prefer a vane, but the trip is only 650 miles ... carrying extra batteries would probably be cheaper). Done. And it works great. Yippee!
- Possibly work up an emergency rudder that can clamp onto the outboard motor bracket (I believe I read that a couple of folks on Jester lost their rudders. I used to think this was over thinking things, but maybe not. We'll see. I think it would be fairly cheap and easy to work something up that would clamp to the outboard bracket).
- Install a cockpit mounted manual bilge pump.
- Install jack lines and hard points.
Interior:
- Get some type of gimbaled stove (a seaswing or equivalent?).
- Build lee boards or cloths for both the starboard quarter berth (oddly, it is not as secure as you would think on the Seafarer) and the port settee.
- Add batteries and strongly secure. I now have two Wal~Mart special group 27 deep cycle batteries. Maybe not the best; but the price is right. 220 amp/hrs for $120. Took the boat out for a week, used the autopilot extensively, and when I got home plugged it into the charger which barely flickered. I think it will work. I had them wedged into place with a cooler and some other junk, so i still need to properly secure them.
- Install a cabin manual bilge pump.
- Install a couple of red LED lights to protect night vision. Installed one red/white combo light over the dinette. Works great, and the price wasn't bad, even at West Marine. I'm glad to see the LED prices are coming down. I think i will install another over the galley and one over the head.
- Figure out some way to keep the lockers closed in the event of a knockdown.
- Possibly install AIS and/or CARD.
- Connect GPS to DSC VHF and possibly to AIS.
Hull:
- Scrape, sand, inspect, and paint.
- Glass over defunct head thru hull.
Paperwork and miscellaneous:
- Radio licenses?
- Get passport. Done.
- Is insurance a requirement?
- Purchase Bahamas Courtesy flag.
- Purchase Quarantine flag.
Additionally, after my sail with Auspicious I determined I needed to get into better shape. In progress. 20 pounds down, 40 to go.
After my week long sail (I returned yesterday) I have come up with some concerns. I'm not sure what the wind was, but NOAA was claiming 15-20 gusting 25. From the ragged looks of other sailors rushing for cover, I suspect it may have been a bit higher. Waves where probably three feet, and close period. The deck was a lot cleaner when done.
The second reef point in the main does help when the winds are 25+ knots (it just HAD to be at least that). However, I can't point closer than ninety degrees to the wind in this wind and I can't tack without using the engine. I'm not sure why. I thought my 100% (or so) jib might have been catching too much wind and not allowing the bow to come around; but it seemed to be the same when I dropped the jib. It may very well be a technique issue on my part. Hopefully I'll be able to take a more experienced sailor out with me on a windy day and we can work it out together. Trying to handle the boat and experiment with manuevers while singlehanding was a bit much, and a little help would have been useful. I NEED to figure this out.
ALSO, and this is also very important, there is not much to hold onto when working the foredeck. When the boat was pitching up and down and waves where occasionally crashing onboard, it was rather frightening to be on the pointy end. When heading forward, there is a transition period between the forehatch to where I can grab the forestay where the only thing I have to grab is the lifelines. Unacceptable, in my book. I'm thinking that maybe if I bolt a stainless steel pipe horizontally on either side of the boat, up maybe four inches from the deck, it would give be something to grab onto, a good place to brace my feet, and act as a kind of psuedo bulwark to help keep me onboard if I start to slide off the deck. I'm still thinking on it.
The boat heaved to adequately with working jib and double reefed main. I was drifting downwind at around 2 knots, which is higher than I would have hoped. Perhaps with a smaller jib it would have slowed the drift down? I also succeeded in heaving to with just the double reefed main ... but I forgot how I did it. Same 2 knots.
Probably not relevant to the Scoot; but interesting none the less (at least to me) ... the last time I hauled the boat I lowered the outboard mount by several inches. Now, when the mount is up, the motor is still in the water until I tilt the motor. But when the mount is down, the propeller is deep enough in the water that it never broke the surface, even when the boat was playing bucking bronco. This helped me get the boat into shelter when I got tired of playing in the slop (I couldn't make and progress to windward under just sail, so if the motor didn't work it would have been tricky and exhausting business getting the boat back into a safe place).
Oh, and does anyone know of a place where I can get a rudder post extension? If I can raise my tiller 4-6 inches it will give me some interesting options for storing a second 6 gallon fuel (or water) tank at the aft end of the cockpit, while also reducing cockpit volume in a place where it isn't all that useful.
The boat is being hauled the first week of December. Hopefully I can start knocking some of the other items off the list this winter.
S/VGodot-
You've obviously been slacking... :) ;)
As for the GPS to VHF... if you have a Garmin GPS, just remember they use the 12VDC ground as the NMEA signal ground, so you have to connect the VHF - DSC line to the Garmin's 12 VDC ground for it to work properly. Also, you have to set the serial port on the Garmin to NMEA 0183 out with the following settings: 4800 baud, 8 bits, No Parity, 1 Stop Bit.
Might I suggest something that would shorten your time and also save you a bit of money?
Take your working jib to a decent sailmaker and have reef points installed, reefing it to storm jib size.
Although for sailing the east coast, the genoa might be better bang for the buck- the east coast is more known for light air than storm conditions.
In this picture you can see the row of reef points in our working jib. They work well. I had the same set up in my trimaran. I've used them ( on either boat) exactly once.
(http://data.sailboatowners.com/photos/1217442722.jpg)
When I ordered a new 110 I had them put a reef point in at the 6' level. Would you believe, even sailing on the SFran Bay in normal days of 15-20 knots and a lot of days between 25 and 35 knots, I have never used that reef, nor the 3rd reef on my main. However, it's there if I ever need it. It's a cheap way to put another sail in your inventory and it don't take up any storage space. TJ
Ok, you've convinced me. I'll add the reef points to the jib, at least as an interim measure. I'm becoming more interested in a roller reefing system, so I probably won't buy a genoa unless I can get a used one at a great price. I'll save my money (ha! what a joke!) and maybe buy a new furler with genny. Unless, of course, I change my mind again. It's been known to happen.
A couple of thoughts on why I'm leaning towards the roller furler/reefer again...
1) Minimizes my trips to the foredeck.
2) Since I'm not anxious to deal with a whole ton of different headsails, it will give me some flexibility in headsail size.
3) I can probably improve sailing efficiency by frequently changing sail size to meet conditions. I can't imagine running to the foredeck to change hank on sails ten times in a day. I'd probably just leave a smaller sail on, thereby slowing down.
4) I have a flaky motor, which I hate using. Being able to rapidly put away and take out the sail will make it easier to enter and leave anchorages under sail, instead of motor, power.
5) My doused jib takes up a lot of room on the foredeck making anchor handling more difficult (plus it invariably gets some mud on it from a dirty anchor chain or anchor).
The compromises:
1) Not as efficient while reefed as dedicated sails. But then, I'm not likely to ever have a large sail inventory, so this point is moot.
2) If something goes wrong it can be difficult to fix. I understand they don't break much nowadays, though. I guess if it gets jammed open in a blow I can always cut the sheets and watch the sail flog itself to death. Not a pleasant thought; but at least it's an option.
My biggest issue would then become which size sail do I order? Ideally, it would range from 150% down to about 80%. However, it sounds like these things only reef down efficiently to about 70%; so I'm thinking perhaps a 130% roller furling genoa which can be reefed down to 91% or so would be a reasonable compromise. Bigger is better in the light air of summer; but I sail mostly in the spring and fall (now is GREAT sailing). I'm leaning towards the CDI Flexible Furler; but may yet change my mind before I break out the wallet.
Will this happen before The Scoot? Damned good question. It all depends on money. Or maybe I'll wait until the NEXT boat (I'm thinking a Cape Dory 27 or 28 would be good).
As a sailmaker who has had to deal with the CDI system on various occasions, let me plead with you to pick another. I don't really care which other, or even have a recommendation, I just have some serious issues with the Flexible Furler system.
They tout the built in halyard. It's essentially a piece of 550 cord/alpine cord that is the length of the extrusion, so when your sail is up, you have the halyard, but if you start pulling on the sail, you have to tie another line to the bitter end, or your halyard tail will be up the forestay. Okay, this is easy enough to do under most circumstances in port when you're doing it carefully, but if you're out in snot and need to do it for any reason... And there aren't any other halyards to pull a replacement up. (Your normal old one won't do to pull the sail back up in the furler because when you furl the sail, the halyard will attempt to follow the furl, wrap around your forestay, put strange pressure on it, and ultimately not allow you to wrap the sail using the furler while torquing the forestay fittings.) You can use your halyard to pull up a GaleSail or chute of some sort, just nothing on the furling system/nothing of 'normal' size. In other furling systems, the jib halyard pulls the head assembly up the forestay, so any halyard could do the job in a pinch.
Also the built in halyard goes thru a funky turn in the top fitting. There isn't a block of any sort for it to run through, it just has a mostly smoothed path to follow. The path is like a bent over '?' though. It comes up one side, over the top, and aims straight in to go out the other, but the forestay is in the way! So it hangs another 90° turn to the right to do the u turn around the wire, then straightens back out to finish it's path and turn down to finish it's job of being a halyard. That's 540° of turning instead of 180°! Okay, so this adds friction, but you don't really pull it up and down that often right? True most of the time, but what if? Extra friction added to a bit of wind load in a sail that you're trying to pull down.... You literally have to PULL. I've sat on/against (ow! bruises) the halyard trying to pull a sail up, and ditto with the luff of the jib to get it down, a couple of different times, and that was at the dock with no breeze or barely a breeze. Somehow it ends up that it's a LOT of extra friction/rubbing/wear put on the line, under a lot of load, in a non-linear position. Even when it's just in it's static UP position. I just don't trust it.
More?!? More.... I also don't like the metal housing/cup/keeper for the furling line. It has sharp edges, and the furling line inevitably ends up rubbing against it at rest so another chafe point that doesn't occur as much on other systems with plastic housing and rounded edges.
Whew, I didn't realize I was so long winded! :) I hope I haven't dashed your dreams of an affordable furler... Go for a used better system, it'll be better than a new CDI.
Good luck choosing!
Curious. I was leaning towards a CDI because so many people had recommended it to me as either the number one or number two choice. You are the first person to discourage me from it.
Well, time remains. I likely will not be able to afford the furler for awhile, so I have lots of time to do research. Thinking on it, I probably WILL buy a used genoa in the meantime. I figure if/when I go to roller furling I'll be able to sell it at consignment to recover some of my cost (or possibly have it modified) so maybe that is how I should be working in the short term.
Anybody else have any opinions on the different roller reefing systems? I am not looking for a high end racing system. But reliability is important.
I think maybe the most important sentence in there is the first, before the comma. I did encounter these systems in a professional setting, which means the sails hanging from them had issues and the boat owners couldn't get them down. The fact that the sails are in tatters on a boat is either due to negligence or accident, I think in both the cases I dealt with CDI's who's sail I couldn't get down, the sails were abused because of negligence, so I will allow for negligence to affect the effectiveness of the furling system. The third CDI I worked on was just an install, made the sail for the customer and he asked for help putting it back up (new boat owner). Once we'd fetched the tail of the halyard (he'd pulled the sail down with no messenger line) it was just 'rough' to get up, not as difficult as the other two, but not as easy as I thought it should be, we noticed in furling that there was a SERIOUS wear point on the furling line. Again, this was a new boat to the guy, so we found it together, I'd never have sailed depending on it to furl my sail if wind was building. I can only assume that the previous owner never looked at the line as he was pulling.
So what I'm saying is maybe it was owner negligence that exacerbated issues, but they are things you need to be aware of and prepared for if you pick the system.
It is good to hear that others have recommended it, so maybe it has positive attributes as well! :-) I've just never run into one that works well. But tis the nature of the job that things aren't brought to you when they work well. ;)
Either way, I'm envious of your preparations, they seem to be taking great shape!
I would second avoiding the CDI furlers... they're JUNK IMHO... You might want to read this
thread on Sailnet.com (http://tinyurl.com/56pahe) about a boat with a CDI furler and what happened to them. I'll quote the relevant text here though.
QuoteBecause I was essentially using the Genoa as a large chute in a dead run I was able to keep much more canvas in the air than the winds would have actually allowed. What appears to have happened is the furler was over stressed and the huge load on the Genoa elevated the furler drum off the bearings and allowed a washer next to the forestay turnbuckle to bend. That prevented the furler from re- seating and thus turning.
QuoteFrom the description, this was probable a CDI flexible furler.
Internal halyard, washer, drum rising up.
QuoteIt was indeed a CDI furler! Nice pickup. Not a piece of equipment I could recommend.
Also, be aware that as nice as roller furler/reefing systems are, they do have limitations. On most, the sail shape starts to get pretty baggy, which is bad for high wind conditions, after you've rolled up about 30-35% of the sail. A foam luff on the sail will help, but not too much once you've gone past 40%.
The one furler that seems to do better than most with furling down below 65% is the Harken Mk IV, which has a design that allows the top and bottom of the sail to furl at slightly different rates and seems to keep the shape of the sail better, even when furled down 50-60%.
As for reliability, I like the Harken and Furlex brands. Facnor is also nice, but mainly racing oriented IIRC, and expensive. I also have a Schaefer unit, but it is a wire-luff unit that is only for furling my screecher—doesn't allow reefing.
Quote from: AdriftAtSea on October 26, 2008, 10:10:21 AM
Also, be aware that as nice as roller furler/reefing systems are, they do have limitations. On most, the sail shape starts to get pretty baggy, which is bad for high wind conditions, after you've rolled up about 30-35% of the sail. A foam luff on the sail will help, but not too much once you've gone past 40%.
Yep. That's what I was referring to with the "Not as efficient" comment in compromise bullet 1. Since I will have, at most, three headsails (working jib, genoa, and possibly a storm jib if I'm talked back into it), and not a huge inventory, this seems like a very reasonable compromise.
Quote from: AdriftAtSea on October 26, 2008, 10:10:21 AM
The one furler that seems to do better than most with furling down below 65% is the Harken Mk IV, which has a design that allows the top and bottom of the sail to furl at slightly different rates and seems to keep the shape of the sail better, even when furled down 50-60%.
It looks like a nice unit. But then, so did the CDI. I appreciate the feedback. I can't afford any of it now, anyhow, so it really doesn't matter yet. Perhaps we should start a new "roller reefing" thread instead of pursuing it here.
Oh, a couple more things....
If I don't end up with roller reefing I think I'm going to lead my halyards to the cockpit and install a jib downhaul. It would have been handy in close quarters maneuvering to not have to run back and forth from cockpit to mast. I was resisting this change; but I think I'm coming around. Single handing has enough challenges ... minimizing them where possible seems smart. I now regret not putting a mast plate under the mast; but happily I cut my new halyards long enough. I'll figure something out.
My second issue has me scratching my head. While raising anchor one morning I grabbed the forestay to stabilize myself, while my other hand was holding on to the anchor chain which was still in the water. I got an unpleasant electric tingle as I apparently completed a circuit from the mast to the water. But I don't know what the source of the energized mast (or, if not the mast, at least the forestay) was. The nav lights where all turned off at the breaker. The VHF was turned on but not transmitting. Where did the electricity come from?
Quote from: s/v godot on October 26, 2008, 10:57:19 AM
Oh, a couple more things....
If I don't end up with roller reefing I think I'm going to lead my halyards to the cockpit and install a jib downhaul. It would have been handy in close quarters maneuvering to not have to run back and forth from cockpit to mast. I was resisting this change; but I think I'm coming around.
That might be a good compromise. :)
QuoteSingle handing has enough challenges ... minimizing them where possible seems smart. I now regret not putting a mast plate under the mast; but happily I cut my new halyards long enough. I'll figure something out.
No reason you couldn't retrofit a mast plate at this point. You probably have enough adjustment in the shrouds and stays to accommodate the thickness of a mast step plate.
QuoteMy second issue has me scratching my head. While raising anchor one morning I grabbed the forestay to stabilize myself, while my other hand was holding on to the anchor chain which was still in the water. I got an unpleasant electric tingle as I apparently completed a circuit from the mast to the water. But I don't know what the source of the energized mast (or, if not the mast, at least the forestay) was. The nav lights where all turned off at the breaker. The VHF was turned on but not transmitting. Where did the electricity come from?
You need to find this, as this may also be causing galvanic corrosion on the parts of the boat in the water. If you have an outboard or bronze through-hulls, this could get very expensive.
I wrote this post on checking for DC ground leaks for another forum, and think it might be useful for you.
QuoteIf you want to test to see if you have a DC-based ground leak, the test for that is rather simple. The steps for seeing if you have a DC-ground leak are as follows:
First—the preliminary diagnosis test:
1) Turn off all equipment and disconnect any solar panels
2) Disconnect the positive side of the battery banks.
3) Leave the main battery isolation switch turned on for the bank in question
4) Set the meter to VDC mode, range appropriate for your battery bank
5) Connect the meter between the positive terminal and the disconnected cable
The meter should give no reading. If it reads XX volts for your XX VDC system, one of two things is happening.
1) You've left some equipment connected and turned on. This could be a bilge pump, a power feed to a stereo for the radio's memory and clock functions, or a hard-wired fume detector.
2) If you've disconnected all the "hard-wired" equipment and still get a reading, then you've most likely got a ground leak in your boat's DC system.
The Ground Leak Check:
1) Set the meter in Ohm mode and set it to the lowest range (x1).
2) Connect the leads of the Ohm-meter (or multimeter in Ohm mode) to the disconnected positive lead and the negative terminal of the battery.
The meter is now reading the resistance of any circuit to ground that exists in the boat's wiring. The reading on the Ohm meter display can help you identify the cause of the leak.
0-10 Ohms means it is most likely a piece of equipment left on
10-1k Ohms is a low-drain piece of equipment left on, or a serious ground leak
1k-10k Ohms is a minor leak
10k+ Ohms is an insignificant leak
How Big is The Leak?
The ammeter function of the multi-meter can tell you what the current leakage is. If your meter can read up to 10 Amps DC, then you can use it to measure amperage for leaks down to about 1.3 Ohms resistance on a 12 VDC system, or 2.6 Ohms for a 24 VDC system.
To see how big the leak is, put the probes on the positive battery post and the disconnected cable. The meter readings can be interpreted as shown:
<1mA — insignificant leakage
1–10mA — minor leakage
10mA–1A — major leak or some equipment left on
>1A — Usually some equipment left on.
I hope that helps.
Everyone is different and we all do things our own way....but I'll be darned if I can figure out why anyone would want to put a furler on any boat less than about 40'. I wouldn't want one then, they are just too much trouble and some of it can be serious trouble. I couldn't tell you how many head sails I've seen just blown to pieces while the boats are sitting in the marinia tied up to the dock and partially sheltered from the wind. Sometimes it gets a little wet (like almost drowned) changing a head sail but hey...to me that's part of what sailing is about. Gets your adrenalen up. They have done it that way for ever almost. I see no real reason to change and make something that is relatively easy and trouble fee into something that is just trouble waiting to happen. Guys when I can't change a headsail or get one down, I'll quit sailing.. or fall overboard trying. TJ
It's balancing simplicity with convenience.
I almost always single hand. I've never used a roller furling gear. But after my last trip where I was trying to find a sail combination that would suit the weather, I was up and back from the foredeck probably a half dozen times in an hour and a half or so. The weather was up. The waves where about three feet, which doesn't sound like much; but they very close and very steep, and the foredeck was covered in spray, and every few minutes I'd end up crashing through an extra large wave. I was very tired, cold, and wet after having made very little progress.
Also, one roller reefing system can take the place of several sails. Less gear, more available space. It might even be cheaper.
And my biggest frustration is anchoring the boat with a big wet pile of dacron in the way.
I've been resisting the idea; but let me tell you that roller furling is looking more and more attractive to me.
Your complaint about too much trouble, sometimes serious trouble, holds just as true for the motor. Folks have sailed without motors for almost forever. Why change? After all, we are sailing! The answer, of course, is that for most of us, the convenience of having a motor outways the simplicity of not having one.
It's a personal choice, as always.
Adam
As you have found out opinions vary on the furler/no furler debate. Both 'sides' have substantially valid and sound arguments. Systems can fail and if they fail at the wrong time... Conversly, convenience and security can be worth every cent. Seeing the future would be much less maddening than trying to guess ( and prepare for ) future events. Do what you want or think best for you and your boat. If you find in the future it doesn't work for you than change it after your experience.
We often give advice to others hoping to save them from the perils of our own choices. That is good, but, really only applies to our experiences and others that share experiences similar to ours.
Having said that, This is the plan of attack I've opted for on our Pearson Ariel. Upon the advice of my sail maker (Joe Cooper at Hood) we went with a 130% headsail because the profurl system we have can keep an acceptable (subjuctive) sail shape with this size when reefed down to around 80%. Beyond that...useless. For lightair we're going with a multi purpose genoa or an asymetrical spinaker. I am not a racer but I do understand the need for speed on occation and the importance of sail shape.
Just to muddy the waters a bit more, I have never had this boat in the water! Fool hearty? Maybe. But that's were the advice of others comes in ;D I'm confident it will work just fine, but, if I find it doesn't...we'll just change it.
Thanks for starting yet another great thread on this forum and best to you with your prep work for the scoot!
Quote from: Capt. Tony on October 26, 2008, 02:40:43 PM
Just to muddy the waters a bit more, I have never had this boat in the water! Fool hearty? Maybe. But that's were the advice of others comes in ;D I'm confident it will work just fine, but, if I find it doesn't...we'll just change it.
Oh but a beauty she will be when she's done Tony.
Just finished putting together a ProFurl system for a Pearson Vangard I'm working on. Definitely looks and seems to be a top quaility piece of equipment, and was recommended to the owner by Graham Byrnes of B and B Yacht Designs. He's had mucho offshore experience, having sailed round the world at least once.
For us, we still hank on, and will for the foreseeable future- at least til I get too old to go forward. Of course by then Laura will probably just do it for us ;D
We''ll have a three sail inventory also- a working jib with a single reef point, a genoa and an assymmetrical spinnaker. Around here we virtually never fly the genoa- we have plenty of wind here. But over in Florida and on the east coast, I know from experience it'll be our main jib.
I'm very much of the opinion..."do what feels right for you". Having said that and had furlers and hank-on....my electra will be a simplified version of CJ and Laura's. Main with 2 deep reef points,jib with one deep reef point and a nylon 150. Figured it has most bases covered,was the best bang for the buck and won't jamb. Remind me of that as I'm soaked-changing headsails on a bucking bow :o Even with that...what I think are 'the basics'...its a lot of $$ even for a 22fter
After a year and a half, I'm finally getting back to the boat today. Yippee. I am somewhat afraid of what I may find, though. It has been pretty seriously neglected while I've been dealing with life's other dramas.
Then, tonight, dinner with friends and salsa dancing in Annapolis (sailboat mecca). Time to get back on track...
Hope its OK when ya get back aboard. There's something about just sittin below. I'm sure you'll have a few good moments before heading out dancing after. Good luck
I got her pumped out, but I need to do a lot of cleaning. varnishing (or maybe PAINTING), and general upkeep. All deck fittings are going to be rebed (I got to get a handle on the deck leaks). I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the teak cap rail which is in terrible condition. In fact, ALL the exterior wood needs TLC (or replacement). Today = boat cleaning day, I think.
Gotta love fiberglass. It might be cold and impersonal compared to wood; but it shakes off neglect a lot more readily.
Good Luck, Man! Glad to hear you are able to get back at it. I am hip deep in my boatwork and appreciating f/g's resilience. Next boat, if the PO did ANY of his own work, he has to pass a mechanical aptitude test for me to buy! :o)
I know why I save all my old sailigs rags....evey once in a while you're looking thru an old one and find a jewel. My compac 25 has too much teak outside...a pain. Varnish or cetol must be sanded and taped. If not well sanded the job looks the shits. This couple did an article on their find "Semco Teak Sealer". You only sand the 1st time...simply wash,let dry and apply after that...NO SANDING. NO taping either. Apparently its like 'Thompson's water seal"..only for teak. In 6-8mths when the water doesn't beed as much...you re-apply. It wipes up and even if allowed to dry on your gelcoat...comes off easily with alchohol.
Not my find...haven't used it yet...but I do have a jug ordered. You buy direct...just search the name. Seems it takes the drudgery out of maintainance. Different shades of colour too ;-)
Good luck
There has been a massive status change. The Scoot is, obviously, a non starter at this moment, although I do hope to make the trip at some point. The plans for my Seafarer have changed several times in the past few months. First, it was continued prep for a late Scoot. Then it was to be sold to help finance a somewhat larger boat for live-aboard purposes. Now, it is being prepped itself for possible live-aboard purposes. Finances are weird, and until they settle down one has to do what one has to do, and moving out of the house onto my little boat seems like a good way of cutting expenses while getting myself back into the sailing lifestyle.
So until such time as I can comfortably afford something a bit more roomy, my focus has shifted from prepping for offshore seaworthiness, to a modicum of live-aboard comfort. It's a good thing I'm a minimalist at heart. I'm not spare with words, though, so a somewhat updated and lengthy plan follows.
Several questions are presented to me. One is that I am unlikely to recover much, if any, financial investment in the boat if I end up selling in a few months. So, do I spend the time and money to make it a nicer and more comfortable boat on the possibility that I might be in it for awhile? Or do I keep things in their more or less run down state in the hope that I may be able to upgrade before too long. Hmmm.
In the short term the answer is that I will work on high value/low cost upgrades.
I'm redoing the dinette area to make it fit me better. This is something that has been ongoing for a few years, although it has been largely ignored since life got "interesting" a couple years ago. I am putting the finishing touches on now.
Some new cabinets where installed. I think they look nifty.
I'm thinking of sacrificing the quarter berth by extending the galley into it. heck, I never use it for anything but a place to throw things anyhow, so I might as well make my galley a bit more usable. I need a bigger sink as the one that is molded in is tiny. I've got a couple options for around $50 or so that will be a huge improvement. I think I'm going to get a foot pump for the water, too, so I can use both hands while washing up. I have a little butane stove which is ok, but if it looks like I'll be staying onboard for awhile I'll eventually upgrade that. Lotsa money, though.
I'm putting in some nicer trim here and there. All of this is very inexpensive as I have a basement full of wood left over from my aborted home renovation.
The head has been a serious question mark. Right now I'm using a port-a-pot, which is adequate for occasional use; but really not that pleasant. If I planned on never leaving the dock, I'd tear the thing out and put in some drawers or something. But I do plan on a lot of sailing, so I have a few options. First is to install a holding tank and plumb in a new toilet. Esthetically, this is my preference. It's also pricey. Second is to install a composting head. It would have to be a home brew system, though, as the manufactured composters are too tall, plus there wouldn't be enough room to swing the mixing handle. But what to do with unfinished compost when the thing fills up? Third is to keep the portable. Advantages are that it is paid for and it can be pumped out or manually dumped. Disadvantages are its' capacity, it is a little too tall for comfort, and it just isn't that pleasant to be around. I guess I will keep it, though, while planning an alternative if I decide Godot is comfortable enough to spend a couple years on.
I redid the electrical system when I bought the boat. I am unsatisfied with my solution and I am looking to change things around some. Happily, I should be able to reuse most of the good quality wire I installed, as well as the panels, so this is more labor than expense. My big complaint with my previous job is where I located the electrical panels. It seemed to make sense at the time; but since then I have had a change of opinion and plan on relocating them. Something is screwy with the AC system, too, as the reverse polarity light is on on the panel. I've checked the wiring and it seems to be right; but I'm beginning to suspect that one of the wiring diagrams was wrong. Or the marina is wired backwards.
Paint, while a bit pricey for the good stuff, is magic at turning something tired into something fresh.
If I do decide to keep the boat, I will continue with the scoot prep items. I believe this boat can be outfitted for some safe offshore passages. The question is is it cost effective.
Hey Adam:
Defender sells a porta-potti than can be pumped out at a pumping station and vented to the exterior of the boat. I think it even has an external fill hose that can lead to a deck fitting. Check out item # 501647 I think. I was gonna build one into my Compac 23 as a semi-permanent head that could be removed if desired.
Bob23
I think the good news here is 1-you`re moving aboard. Talk about getting to know your boat and what you`d like to change and 2-...most `creature comfort`things aren`t expensive. Paint is cheap, so is re-doing cushions. Ya can make her more livable and bright for lil funds but a bit of of sweat. Have fun...glad you`re moving abourd. Think of it as a `Thoreau`cabin experience.
Thanks, guys. Actually, my current head *IS* plumbed for deck pumpout, or it can be manually dumped. This is a good thing as my marina shuts down the pumpouts (and water) sometime in November.
The reason I have such conflict (as you could probably guess from my sleep deprived semi coherent rant above) is that I have seen a number of 27-28 foot (and bigger) boats for not much money that are much more comfortable inside. They all need updating; but the costs of updating a slightly bigger boat are similiar to my little boat (assuming rig, sails, and motor are halfway decent). Of course, the best boat is the boat you already own.
Real issues on Godot:
- Not quite standing headroom. The further forward you go, the worse it gets. I don't spend much time standing, though, especially given it's really only three or four steps forpeak to companionway, so this is something I can live with. I have no problem cooking while sitting down.
- The v-berth is just a hair too short to be comfortable for me. I am just about finished with the rebuild of the dinette area, though, which will allow a reasonably comfortable berth in the main cabin.
- The head is impossibly cramped. What the heck; I'll probably use the marina facilities most of the time.
- Storage. Little more needs to be said. Except that this should really help me get rid of the junk, so maybe it isn't a bad thing afterall. I think my upcoming galley project will help some, in any case.
- The boat doesn't make my heart sing. She's just not that pretty to my eye.
- Godot is small enough and ugly enough that it may very well negatively impact my love life. Of course, having a woman in my life would be the biggest risk to my actually setting off in a couple of years, so this really might not be a disadvantage. Except for the sex thing. I miss sex.
But, naturally Godot has some things going for her as well...
- She is paid for, and her slip is not overly expensive.
- She is fairly stiff, reasonably responsive, moderately fast, and quite a bit of fun to sail. I have some balance issues to deal with (lee helm), and I haven't quite figured it all out when the winds get above the mid twenties; but I should be able to deal with these issues with a little trial and error. The boat has never felt unsafe (at least, not yet), and I've been known to sail her in conditions that are really pushing my ability.
- She is not worth much, which means I can hack at her without worrying about resale value. It also means I can experiment to my hearts content to get her set up the way I like. Even if I totally destroy her, I'm not out too much.
- Anything more than liability insurance is pointless. Money saved.
- I really think that once I get her set up right I could take her most anywhere. Well, maybe not around Cape Horn; but on any number of other less extreme adventures, including offshore passages during appropriate seasons.
I've carefully inquired about liveaboards at the marina office and didn't really get a policy answer. Basically they said that they really aren't set up for it in the winter as the water and waste pumps get shut down; but that lots of people spend a lot of time aboard in the better three seasons. I asked around and there are three or four full-time liveaboards. I talked to one and the policy seems to be "Don't ask, don't tell." I'm pretty sure there are no restriction in my contract. I'm just going to do it and plead ignorance if they talk to me about it. Keeping the boat in the water is certainly no problem.
"Don't ask don't tell' WRT living aboard seems to be a common marina policy. :)
Sounds like to me you are in a pretty good place - not much to lose, plenty to gain. :)
(& Forget about sex - that way if/when it happens, it'll be that much better. ;D )
Check out the website stories of the guy in England that Frank posted about yesterday, cruising with his wife on a 16'er. He reminded me of one of my salient points, when considering or confronting questions about "living aboard such a small boat". I think back to my kayaking/camping times, when I was really really enjoying just living, and compare that to the set up that I have with this 'small boat':
We don't have to set up a tent every night.
Most of our stuff stays 'unpacked' and easy to access.
Getting out of the wind/rain is as simple as ducking below.
You don't get these views from an East Coast US house, for less than a million or so dollars, probably.
The neighbors are cool, and something is always going on that is interesting, usually.
Landlubbers don't see your 'ugly' boat the same way that you do - they don't know what they are looking at, quite, and so their eyes work differently. ;D
You don't have to go anywhere, to work on the boat. ;)
You are forced to keep things simpler than you would otherwise.
You are much more aware of Nature, and your place in it. That daily, can't-be-avoided-dock-stroll-to-the-boat will show you that. Especially after the first of the year, when winter *really* sets in... ;D
Etc, etc...
I will say that I *love* the standing headroom Katie has. That is the only thing from your list which makes me go "Hmm, I would have to change that.". But you have the opportunity to do that at your convenience and leisure, since you already have a boat. :) And being in a marina, you are ideally located for shopping. ;)
Living aboard and so trying different things will also give you a 'heads up' on what to shop for, in a next boat, if that is where you wind up going.
Keep a simple stove. Get a toaster oven to use when you have shore power, one which the bottom swings open for cleaning. That way, if you leave the dock, you can actually still use it, balanced on top of the stove (not at sea, of course, but it works. This is something I have been experimenting with, as a solution to the many other methods of baking I've tried. I haven't yet worked much with a seal-less pressure cooker, though...).
Best advice I can give you, from my ~7 years of living in 25 feet: Can the porta potti, and go composting.
Especially with winter months ahead - you will be living in a closed environment, and the issues are sooooooo much less with even a cheap "composter" like mine, than with the porta potti. (Trust me - and, if you find that they aren't, I will send you $20. ;D)
Two main advantages: Composter only needs emptying every few *weeks*, and - No odor to speak of. I had a small porta potti, and would have to empty the thing at least once a week, even though I was sparing about using it, whether or not it was full; the smell just builds too fast, especially in a small, closed, warm environment, and extra especially if your boat bobs at all in the slip. You have to buy chemical stuff to put into it after every emptying. It's a pain to empty, and sometimes a nasty job. (OK, not sometimes - it always is. :) )
Composter - buy a bag of peat or coir, and you're done spending - that will last you beyond winter. Emptying the thing is a matter of dumping the dirt. I will usually then dip up some river water, let it sit for part of/a day, and give it a quick hose out before refilling with fresh peat. Simple, easy, saves the world a lot of fresh water, and puts less bad stuff into the environment. Get a used 10" paint roller, break off the roller part, and bend what is left into a U shape, for the most efficient 'mixer' I have used yet.
It is cheap to try a composter, and you can just set the porta potti aside for a couple of/a few weeks until you determine whether or not the above claims are true. If you find they aren't, then you'll still have the porta potti.
That's what I did, and the composter worked so well that eventually the porta potti got scrapped, after its lid disappeared in that big storm. (I've found that it is near impossible to give away a used porta potti. ;D)
Another consideration: heat. My boat doesn't have a built-in heater. Here's what I have found best, having shorepower to provide the juice. Use 2 heaters. One of these:
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=oil+filled+heater
and one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/Patton-Milkhouse-Utility-Heater-1500/dp/B0049RZ5ZU
The small one is radiant - point it at yourself and IR heat does the trick (tho' it also has a fan). I use this by itself in the 'side season', when days are pretty warm and it is only really needed on occasion. I have had other types of radiant heaters of the same wattage, and this one seems best; sized well for a small boat, has built in tip-over protection, low and hi settings, etc...
Then, later in winter, I'll add the oil filled heater into the mix. It is good (& safe) at maintaining a base temperature in the boat when it gets *really* cold, to keep the small one from over-working and becoming a fire hazard. It'll keep the boat at long shirtsleeve/light jacket temps by itself, and you can supplant it with the smaller radiant device as needed.
Make sure you have good, thick power cords. And use a heavy duty power strip inside the boat as an aid to the trip fuse on the marina power pedestal.
Quote from: CapnK on November 24, 2010, 09:27:27 AM
(& Forget about sex - that way if/when it happens, it'll be that much better. ;D )
Now that I'm a little older, I don't think about sex nearly as much as in my younger days. Hardly more than a couple times an hour. ::) But forget about it? I think that is beyond me.
Quote from: CapnK on November 24, 2010, 09:27:27 AM
I will say that I *love* the standing headroom Katie has. That is the only thing from your list which makes me go "Hmm, I would have to change that.". But you have the opportunity to do that at your convenience and leisure, since you already have a boat. :) And being in a marina, you are ideally located for shopping. ;)
Well, tecnically I DO have standing headroom at the very aft end of the cabin. Forward a step and a half to the stove, though, and it is a couple inches short. I can deal.
Quote from: CapnK on November 24, 2010, 09:27:27 AM
Keep a simple stove. Get a toaster oven to use when you have shore power, one which the bottom swings open for cleaning.
Once I extend the galley I think I'll have enough space for a small toaster oven (I use one at home all the time for everything ... it's hardly worth firing up the big oven to cook just for me) and a small microwave. We'll see. I've been thinking, though, that if I'm going to redo the galley this would be a good time to install a gimbaled stove top. I was thinking of the Cookmate Origo clone. Yes, I know alcohol is an expensive and relatively cool fuel (someone is about to point that out); but I don't really want the bother of installing a propane system. Besides, there is no room for a tank. I can always keep the butane stove around for special needs.
Quote from: CapnK on November 24, 2010, 09:27:27 AM
Best advice I can give you, from my ~7 years of living in 25 feet: Can the porta potti, and go composting.
Especially with winter months ahead - you will be living in a closed environment, and the issues are sooooooo much less with even a cheap "composter" like mine, than with the porta potti. (Trust me - and, if you find that they aren't, I will send you $20. ;D)
Two main advantages: Composter only needs emptying every few *weeks*, and - No odor to speak of. I had a small porta potti, and would have to empty the thing at least once a week, even though I was sparing about using it, whether or not it was full; the smell just builds too fast, especially in a small, closed, warm environment, and extra especially if your boat bobs at all in the slip. You have to buy chemical stuff to put into it after every emptying. It's a pain to empty, and sometimes a nasty job. (OK, not sometimes - it always is. :) )
But
where do you empty it? Certainly, the composting hasn't completed (especially the recent 'deposits') when it gets full.
BTW, with the portapotti, I found that by leaving a tiny amount of water in the bowl it doesn't seem to smell much. I'm guessing the rubber seal at the bottom door is tight enough to hold water; but that gases somehow make it past. Just a guess.
I won't be moving onboard until spring.
Quote from: CapnK on November 24, 2010, 10:09:54 AM
Another consideration: heat. My boat doesn't have a built-in heater. Here's what I have found best, having shorepower to provide the juice. Use 2 heaters. One of these:
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=oil+filled+heater
and one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/Patton-Milkhouse-Utility-Heater-1500/dp/B0049RZ5ZU
I keep my house in the low sixties as is; so if the cabin can be warmed into the high fifties I'd be chilly, but satisfied. I hope not to have to worry about this for awhile. I expect to be in my house until April; although there are some things that might be out of my power to control that might change that. Heat is definitely a concern, though, as there isn't much room at all for a heater. I may have to get creative.
But then, what else is new? Small space living creates all sorts of interesting questions. I'm still trying to figure out a way to have a decent galley, a place to put a cooler (maybe an Engel eventually), and a location for wet weather gear. I can figure an adequate answer to any two of the three. Throw in the requirement for a heater and I'm really going to have to turn up the creativity.
Quote from: Godot on November 24, 2010, 10:23:55 AM
I keep my house in the low sixties as is; so if the cabin can be warmed into the high fifties I'd be chilly, but satisfied. I hope not to have to worry about this for awhile. I expect to be in my house until April; although there are some things that might be out of my power to control that might change that. Heat is definitely a concern, though, as there isn't much room at all for a heater. I may have to get creative.
Here's the specific model we use:
DeLonghi Solaris (http://www.amazon.com/DeLonghi-Solaris-Oil-Filled-Radiator-Timer/dp/B0012RPTAG)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ptqMYlwDL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
And I'd like to offer a few comments (even if you move aboard in April, you still will need one for NEXT year.
(1) We have a spare. We were not sure if one would be sufficient, so we bought two. The second is brand new, the box from Amazon has never been opened. We might be willing to part with it.
(2) We specifically bought this model because it is SMALLER than most of the others with the same heat output.
(3) Most of the time, it works EXTREMELY well to keep the boat warm...better than the 'in the fifties' you are saying you'd be satisfied with. We are heating two cabins with a head/locker passageway in between.
We usually have to turn it DOWN, even with outside temps are in the 20's.
But, the thing that I've noticed is that it all depends on how long the "cold" lasts...20's, or even teens, at night with a mid-30's or higher warm-up during the day is no problem...it takes actually very little heat to keep the boat warm ... at least our boat does not heat-cool very fast, so the one-day temperature cycles get very flattened out.
The only time we notice an issue is when it is cold and stays cold ... last year, we had several stretches of 2 weeks at a time with the temps not getting out of the 20's during the day and teens to low 20's at night. Nights were tough, but not unbearable.
My thermometer inside the boat showed that temps inside tracked about 25-30 degrees warmer than what it was outside, in the worst case. Windy days had more heat loss.
Our general rule was if the nighttime temps were in the teens, we would close off the v-berth and all four of use would sleep in the main cabin. Some of those cold (low-mid 20's) days had the door to the v-berth closed as well.
(4) Electricity consumption is low - our power bills are MUCH smaller than when we had heating a house. The boat loses a TON more heat, and faster, than a house, but it's also much smaller with less "open space."
(5) Cooking dinner and heating water on the stove for dishes helps warm the cabin on cold nights...ditto breakfast in the morning; by the time that residual heat is leaving the boat, we are in our sleeping bags anyway.
Kurt and Smollett:
What do you folks do about condensation inside the boat?
I'm just curious, but I'm not yet ready to try living aboard my huge Cape Dory 25D.
Happy Thanksgiving!
--Joe
QuoteThere has been a massive status change.
Adam, A belated
best wishes for your efforts to adapt the boat and your life to living aboard.
-Jim
UPDATE:
Nothing happens fast. It's been a busy, cold winter so far, so I haven't spent much time on the boat. I'm going there this afternoon, though. My questions regarding upgrading to something a little more spacious have been resolved. It ain't gonna happen. At least for awhile as it looks like I have far, far less equity in my rental property (that I was planning to sell) than expected. So that lets me move on with move-aboard modifications without reservation. It's nice when things clarify themselves. :)
The housing market being what it is, it looks like my time frame for moving aboard full time has been pushed back to at least late summer. This will give me a workshop for longer than I would have otherwise, and will allow me to move aboard in stages (weekend, few days a week, most days, full time). A great advantage for figuring things out such as what do I really need aboard, as well as giving me a place to retreat to out of the sawdust if I have to make physical changes, not to mention a huge storage area.
So, nothing has been happening except the spinning of the wheels in my head. And they are spinning faster and faster.
Signing off... I've got a boat to check on.
I'm not preparing for the Scoot at the moment; but I'm still keeping an eye on the list...
The rig:
- Pull mast and inspect. Done. Looks good.
- Re-wire VHF antenna. Done. I also installed a new PVC conduit in the mast for all the wires which has REALLY quieted things down.
- Change to all rope halyards (I'm annoyed by the wire/rope splice). Done. It works great and is more pleasant to use.
- Probably replace stays, shrouds and hardware (I suspect they are as old as the boat). Done, done, and done. Old wire looked fine, turnbuckles didn't. Replaced the whole set just to be sure.
- Install spreader boots on ends of spreaders. Done.
- Repair "steaming" light. Installed new steaming/deck light. The steaming light is LED.
- Possibly add masthead LED navigation lights. Won bid for new masthead tricolor on ebay ... they sent the wrong part. By the time the right light arrived the mast was back up. Oh, well. It was only a nice to have anyhow.
- Re-step and tune. Done. I went to tune the mast myself and found I couldn't make it vertical before running out of wire on the starboard shrouds. i was unhappy and complained to my rigger who looked at it himself. It turns out the mast wasn't crooked at all; but the boat has some permanent heel to it. Rigger did the tuning for free after checking it out, which is just as well.
- Acquire a genoa and storm jib. Lucked into a storm jib
The deck:
- Repair damaged bow pulpit. Done. Could probably use some more attention; but it is drastically better than it was.
- Possibly add additional stanchions (on the fordeck there is about seven or eight feet between the last stanchion and the bow pulpit; in this dangerous area, an additional stanchion may provide peace of mind). I don't think I'm gonna bother
- Possibly replace stanchions with taller, double wire stanchions (right now the single wire height is just about knee level; just right to overbalance the skipper if standing and send him swimming, or role him under the line if crawling. Bad height all around). When I replaced the lifeline, I lowered the attachment at the pulpit. This allows for more security while sitting on the foredeck. Replacing stanchions became very low priority.
- Possibly install stern pulpit (a little extra security, although I've never felt threatened while in the cockpit. It would also provide a place to install solar panels or something. If money allows we may see).
- Replace lifelines (30+ years old?). Done. Replaced with Amsteel instead of stainless. Looks good.
- Replace forehatch. (IMPORTANT!). Done. I built a new wooden hatch which looked really spiffy in my basement. When I installed it on Godot, however, it just didn't look right. The hatch looks traditional. The boat doesn't. It reminds me of the time I saw a really HUGE biker riding a really SMALL motorcycle. Odd. I did take it sailing in some nasty weather and had waves brake on the foredeck and no water made it inside, even without the gasketing I haven't installed yet, so it will probably stay. At least for a while.
- Possibly add dodger (I really want this, but time and money will be the determining factors).
- Build a bridge deck.
- Change the hatch boards from 1/2" to 3/4" and provide barrel bolts to lock them in place. I think I'm going to leave them as 1/2"
- Replace windows (currently they leak. I have the lexan on-hand, just need to find the time). The lexan wasn't quite long enough, so I bought some 3/8" Plexiglass and installed that. It looks much, much better.
- Install additional cockpit drains.
- Install latches to lock the lockers closed (in case of knockdown).
- Install autopilot (I would prefer a vane, but the trip is only 650 miles & carrying extra batteries would probably be cheaper). Done. And it works great. Yippee!
- Possibly work up an emergency rudder that can clamp onto the outboard motor bracket (I believe I read that a couple of folks on Jester lost their rudders. I used to think this was over thinking things, but maybe not. We'll see. I think it would be fairly cheap and easy to work something up that would clamp to the outboard bracket).
- Install a cockpit mounted manual bilge pump.
- Install jack lines and hard points.
Interior:
- Get some type of gimbaled stove (a seaswing or equivalent?).
- Build lee boards or cloths for both the starboard quarter berth (oddly, it is not as secure as you would think on the Seafarer) and the port settee. I am taking the quarterberth out of contention as a sleeping place.
- Add batteries and strongly secure. I now have two Wal~Mart special group 27 deep cycle batteries. Maybe not the best; but the price is right. 220 amp/hrs for $120. Took the boat out for a week, used the autopilot extensively, and when I got home plugged it into the charger which barely flickered. I think it will work. I had them wedged into place with a cooler and some other junk, so i still need to properly secure them.
- Install a cabin manual bilge pump.
- Install a couple of red LED lights to protect night vision. Installed one red/white combo light over the dinette. Works great, and the price wasn't bad, even at West Marine. I'm glad to see the LED prices are coming down. I think i will install another over the galley and one over the head.
- Figure out some way to keep the lockers closed in the event of a knockdown.
- Possibly install AIS and/or CARD. With the advent of "hi-def" RADARs, I don't think CARD is a legitimate contender anymore. AIS will be likely should my plans once again include offshore travel.
- Connect GPS to DSC VHF and possibly to AIS.
Hull:
- Scrape, sand, inspect, and paint. Done. No blisters. No major damage.
- Glass over defunct head thru hull.
For what it's worth, I still have my house (stupid housing market); so I haven't moved aboard, yet. Probably just as well.
You've been busy grog to ya ;D
It's a process. Although I might need to revamp the list to be more appropriate to my existing situation. I've been working on lots of things that aren't on the list.
Boat, finally, launches this week. :)
Nice work Adam.
I would get underway on Faith right now, sure would like to work though the list though. Man, that rig has been up there since 1964... sure would like to give it some love.
Adam, Appreciate your sharing the process--the list of issues, options, decisions and thinking behind them.
Good luck with the launch--and with dealing with the house.
It's a new year, and the boat is still being worked on. Last year instead of working on the list, I mostly just went sailing. It had been a long time since I had a year with this much time on the water, and it felt good. This year I'm back to the list for a couple reasons... 1) I'm planning on sailing to Martha's Vineyard in a few weeks. I expect to be offshore (50ish miles, I'm guessing) for maybe three days. Time and weather will tell. 2) Due to my own laziness, I now need to get my mainsail repaired. As long as it's in the shop, I may as well work on my other issues.
Soooo, so far this year I am revisiting some issues I had marked as closed previously.
My forehatch experiment was a success. Except I made it out of cheap Home Depot "white wood" since it was intended as just a prototype. I never got around to making a replacement out of teak or mahagony or something decent, so it started to dry rot away. Bummer. Instead of just rebuilding it to the same plan (which, while quite functional, just never looked right on my boat) I bought a manufactured offshore rated hatch (the brand escapes me). I am having to do some modifications to make the durn thing fit; but so far it is looking good.
Also, previously checked off repair to the bow pulpit had to be un-checked off. Stupid Boat Owner Syndrome (SBOS) kicked in and I made a quick, but decidedly inadequate, repair. It seems much better now. Time will tell.
The previously rebuilt hatchboards had a feature that I thought was pretty useful...a louvered vent. Sadly, wasn't as water resistant as I had hoped, so I'm in the process of re-doing it.
I really should rebuild the cockpit seat hatches. They are sort of Okay; but they are deteriorating. They need to be fixed.
Happily, something is actually complete...CROSS OFF as COMPLETE the task of securing the batteries. I built a new shelf, and they are sitting happily secured under the cockpit right now. This has worked out very, very well. At least until it is time to top off the water (which it is now). That part is a drag.
I'm in the process of installing an anchor roller for a new Bruce style anchor. What is odd about this anchor is that it seems so much smaller than my previous danforth clone of a similar weight (16 pounds). I'm beginning to regret not going for the 22 pounder; but everything I've been reading suggests that 16 is enough. We'll see. I still have the Danforth as a second, and a Fortress as a third, so there are options out there should I need them. In any case, mounting the anchor roller is a fair amount of work due to the design of the boat. I think I've got it licked, though, and should have it installed in the next week or two. I think this is going to really make my anchor handling easier. I'm looking forward to trying it out.
The quarter berth is going back into contention as a place to sleep, if for no other reason than it is the easiest bunk to set up for use underway. I don't have good cushions for it; but I do have a cushion from a lawnchair that looks like it will work. It's not terribly thick, and will likely be rather uncomfortable; but that will just keep me from sleeping through a scheduled 360 degree horizon scan (every 15 minutes or so, I guess). At least, that's what I'm telling myself.
read trough your "do list" = eye opener for me (I have things to do)
any pic's on your boat, would be nice to see?! And keep it up!
I understand the going back to "completed" things well ::)
On the 1/4 berth bunk cushion thing - what about getting a piece of foam and simply putting inside an old sleeping bag? Could stitch the top closed or simply punch in some poppers or eyelets (and lace up) - I like sewing with a hammer! Won't be a perfect fit - but does not need to be.
I can do photos.
I hope everyone has decent bandwidth...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-jS2h1N5T2J4/SpaDEw75A6I/AAAAAAAAAC4/MH0-VbCer_8/s400/Godot_Slip_2.jpg)
s/v Godot, shortly after purchase
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-k-g2P7W37rM/SpaDKAxcl8I/AAAAAAAAADg/jahBO6LOr9Y/s400/Adam_Lounging_Godot_2.jpg)
Here I am lounging, early on in the ongoing refit process. You can see the bulkhead shelves behind me. I was not a fan of these...
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-uXMUt97Cy88/SpaDMsohgoI/AAAAAAAAADs/Un3LFvS0XLo/s400/bulkheadCabinet.JPG)
...so I built a new cabinet. I am very satisfied with how this project came out. The location of the VHF being forward in the cabin, and a few feet away from the companionway was an experiment. With the wireless WHAM mics, it works out pretty well. If I were to do it again, though, I'd grab a VHF that uses WIRED command mics.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-hrsIwHNmXKk/SpaDTbyTPjI/AAAAAAAAAEU/a2gkHoGwNec/s400/DSCN0913.JPG)
Here you see the storage cubby I installed behind the dinette, and the expanded wooden storage area below in the middle section of the dinette. These both worked out quite well. The extra storage is very welcome, and it makes the dinette the best place in the boat to snooze, even when the table is not dropped to turn it into a so called "double."
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-tIliU1Awi2U/SpaDgxMGkJI/AAAAAAAAAFc/vag5yliXe7k/s400/DSCN0926.JPG)
A shot of the bow area. Notice the funky brackets that the bow pulpit is attached to...this was the result of the prior owner attempting to work around some hurricane damage. It worked. Sorta. The raised mounting bad was pretty much destroyed by having the pulpit torn off.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-cfKFi35imaQ/SpaDlOJv3_I/AAAAAAAAAFs/u0sdRQyaHCM/s400/DSCN0930.JPG)
A somewhat better view.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qUo1EKOswuI/T6V_vfK8dhI/AAAAAAAABWE/PUbJ3MPK7fc/s400/2012-05-05_15-29-29_42.jpg) (https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/N5oYdUXN8UfPaAVPmOO07pI-tJd-1UzEzqSQ6B6OGCY?feat=embedwebsite)
So I tried a couple ways to fix it. FIRST, I just screwed it to the deck aft of the raised pad. This worked for a little while; but wasn't nearly strong enough. I should have known. You may be able to see all the putty I have slathered around the mount in order to minimize the water below decks (click for a bigger image). You can ALSO see the beginning of my more permanent repair. I laminated up some fiberglass and epoxy disks, approximately 1/8" thick, and bonded it to the top of the raised mounting pad. This seems to have greatly improved the strength, and while I don't have a photo showing it, the pulpit is much more secure now that it is mounted where is belongs. A win. I think. Time will tell, of course.
You can also see my Amsteel lifelines, including a rather decent eye splice, thank you very much. I am very happy using rope instead of wire. It's easier and more pleasant to work with. It looks nicer (to my eye, anyhow), feels nicer (to my touch), is somewhat cheaper, and just generally makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. It does require periodic tightening for a couple weeks until it gets fully stretched out; but that hasn't been much of a problem.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ed0LbUTiDnE/T66q44NVOhI/AAAAAAAABX8/md-G8xsXprs/s400/01-11-07_1536.jpg)
The original forehatch (after having the solar vent ripped off by the jib sheet).
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-G9rl8H7S3wk/T660pwVfJ0I/AAAAAAAABY4/Zxw2nTbDn_c/s400/Wood%2520Forehatch.JPG)
My wooden, homemade, prototype forehatch. Sadly, I can't find a photo at the moment when she looks really fine. I cheaped out and used Helmsman Spar Urethane and it didn't hold up long. The cheap wood I built the hatch out of didn't last long either once the varnish was compromised.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-PddqtN8OE7o/T66sSdWEESI/AAAAAAAABYU/KcLiiXD7skY/s400/IMG_0411.JPG)
So I built a filler piece to put in the forehatch opening, in order to size it to fit the new hatch I bought...
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-quRhjhY_lDg/T66s1sbMNeI/AAAAAAAABYk/8Ib2kIyAv_w/s400/IMG_0412.JPG)
In the end it will all fit together something like this
There are missing photos. There is paint in reality where you don't see it here. Some projects I never photographed. Others just look like poop. But this gives you a general idea of some (a small percentage, actually) of the work I've done. This ain't a Tehani quality refit, for sure. But, for the most part, I am satisfied with my progress. Still, there is a lot of work left to do.
While reading your description of your projects, I was also thinking that it would be good to see some photos. Glad that you posted them--they show what you had to deal with, what you've done, and are doing so well.
Good luck with the projects ahead.
Thanks for photos, great to see the work you've done. Looking fine! I Use the Wire as a life line, I use roping at first, but my safetyline hook wouldn't slide clean on it.
Quote from: Godot on May 12, 2012, 03:26:17 PM
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-cfKFi35imaQ/SpaDlOJv3_I/AAAAAAAAAFs/u0sdRQyaHCM/s400/DSCN0930.JPG)
Just curious as to what that round (stainless steel?) fitting is.............just aft of the (old) pulpit fitting - have same on the Starboard side.
Some sort of vent?
Looks like running lights to me. Used to have those. Replaced with this-
Mounted UNDER bow pulpit. totally out of the way, and the mast foot rests on there when trailering the boat.
Quote from: David_Old_Jersey on May 13, 2012, 06:05:44 AM
Just curious as to what that round (stainless steel?) fitting is.............just aft of the (old) pulpit fitting - have same on the Starboard side.
Some sort of vent?
Charlie is right, it's a nav light. And it will soon be replaced with an LED bi-color that I intend on mounting up on the pulpit. Save electricity, get it a little higher for better visibility, and keep it out of the way of stray sheets or dropped sails (which pretty much defeat the purpose of a nav light when they drop in front). Oh yeah, and to avoid the occasional burn when working the foredeck (darn, but those little incandescents get hot).
Another option for getting Nav lights off the foredeck, what I did on the Typhoon and what I am doing on the Ariel. Aqua signal 33's LED in front of the cowling attached to the cabin side;
(http://www.pbase.com/morningdove/image/134236652/original.jpg)
Quote from: Tim on May 13, 2012, 10:40:31 AM
Another option for getting Nav lights off the foredeck, what I did on the Typhoon and what I am doing on the Ariel. Aqua signal 33's LED in front of the cowling attached to the cabin side;
I actually considered that. Certainly wiring would be easier. However, I'm still up in the air with whether or not I'm keeping Godot past this season or upsizing a bit. If I do keep her, I figure there is at least a possibility I will be getting a monster genny (given the summer wind around here, I could use it), and I was concerned about obstructing the light. As well, my cabin sides aren't exactly vertical, and I wasn't sure how that would affect things.
Grog for a good idea, though.
Adam, the original lights for the Ariel were mounted there so I assume that it would be OK. It seems at though at some angle the lights may be obscured sometimes no matter the sail. I have a matching stern light that I use with a wedge on the stern.
Quote from: CharlieJ on May 13, 2012, 08:18:55 AM
Looks like running lights to me. Used to have those. Replaced with this-
Mounted UNDER bow pulpit. totally out of the way, and the mast foot rests on there when trailering the boat.
That's entirely too nice. But close to what I've been considering (although it never occurred to me to mount it underneath...I was going to mount a board ABOVE. Food for thought).
The nav light I just ordered from Amazon (Attwood LED 2-Mile Deck Mount Navigation Bow Light, Stainless Steel):
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51j%2BiGixMFL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://amzn.to/IS6XIp). $37.29. Prices sure have come down. :) I think I can probably mount it on a small platform on top of the pulpit far enough forward of the headstay to keep out of the way.
Further work...
I replaced, finally, the forward tube on the bow pulpit that was knocked out during a hurricane before I bought Godot. It's not a perfect job; but I figured out a pretty decent method with my limited tool set to get the tube installed. It really stiffens up the pulpit and makes me feel better.
I installed the LED nav lights. Man, are they BRIGHT! And they should save quite a few electrons. Good stuff. I built a little plywood platform that was bolted to the top of the pulpit. I eventually may make a nicer job of this; but it is working fine in the interim.
The Vetus (http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=58178&familyName=Vetus+Altus+Escape+Hatches) forehatch is just about ready to be fully bolted down. It is looking mighty fine, if I do say so myself. Sadly, with the hatch closed it overhangs, slightly, the raised hatch mounting lip (what the HECK is that thing called again?). If it snags the jib sheet I may need to further work on it. I have some ideas; but will hopefully be able to hold off until the next haul...
The anchor roller and anchor are in place. It is a Lewmar Claw 16.5 (basically a Bruce anchor). It looks kinda small (it is a bit lighter than my knock-off Danforth 18, but looks tiny in comparison) and I'm beginning to think I should have gone with the 22 pounder instead (I almost did; but the anchor roller for the 22 was much more expensive). We'll see... I have 150 feet of new 1/2" braided anchor line (found quite inexpensively at Cheaper Than Dirt (http://www.cheaperthandirt.net/55406577-1.html)...if it works out well I may get another spool); but I need to pick up some 1/4" G3 chain (30' maybe...I mark my rode in fathoms so putting the rope/chain splice at the five fathom mark seems convenient) and splice it on. This is an upgrade from the 3/8" line, 3/16" chain I have been using. 180 total feet would allow me to anchor in around 20' of water at 7:1 ratio (4' freeboard at the bow), or a little better than 30' at 5:1. I may double that; but I think for my immediate plans it would be overkill. I can always attach my old rode if I need extra length.
New cockpit seats are 3/4 built. Actually, they are all the way built. I'm just not quite done with the finish work on them.
Drop boards are almost done as well.
I installed a new waterproof plug on the deck for my new LED anchor light (Pure White Lulu Kaukaua 15 LED Light WITH Photosensor - NO PLUG (http://www.bebi-electronics.com/owl.html)). Great light, btw.
I finished sealing up an old, unused instrument hole and got the first coat of paint on it. Looks much nicer.
I connected the GPS to the DSC VHF. And I programmed in my MMSI number. And the weather alert numbers. And my buddies MMSI number. Heck, we may be the only people actually trying to use the DSC feature (although even we will likely defer to cellular if we are in a coverage area once the novelty wears off).
I reinstalled the transducer for the depth sounder to a new location. I'll see if it works any better here. I think the depth sounder instrument head has a loose connection in it, so it may need to be replaced anyhow.
I installed a new water deck fill on the starboard side of the boat, and will soon move the tank fill line to that instead of the port deck fill which is uncomfortably close to the head pump out.
The bellows on my aging (at least ten years old) Thetford porta-pot has failed. Instead of trying to just order the bellows, I put in an order for a brand new (MSD style) Sealand SANIPOTTIE 965MSD (http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1%7C51%7C806%7C81394&id=435205)). It was time. I was holding off on this purchase as I was trying to figure out a way to shoe-horn in a composting head. There just isn't enough room. Ah, well.
On the electronics front I've been playing with my brand new Spot Connect (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004J96SB8/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=journey019-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B004J96SB8). Coolness, as it actually allows me to send very short (24 characters, I think) text messages by interfacing with my Android via bluetooth. I've also been playing with using an old laptop (http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=1610) along with OpenCPN (http://opencpn.org/ocpn/) as a chart plotter. Also cool; although I'm not sure I can afford the electrons to run it non-stop, and really have no place to safely mount it anyhow. My rickety old Garmin GPSMAP 162 (http://www8.garmin.com/products/gpsmap162/) is still working fine; although I'm afraid its' lifespan is coming to an end as the connector in the back works, but has seen better days and will likely fail completely before too long. Maybe I can buy a replacement part (it's hard to justify spending much money on something this old)? My android cell phone also works fairly well (small screen) as a backup gps/chartplotter/anchor watch/weather forecast/tide table/everything else system; although, sadly, the Active Captain (https://activecaptain.com/) website doesn't work well on it.
I just got the motor running again. This darned thing had me worried. Happily it was 90% operator error. Easily solved when I finally stopped to think about it for awhile.
Holy cow, I've been busier than I thought! I probably forgot one or two things, as well. But I'm in a hurry at the moment. This weekend I depart Baltimore for a trip to Martha's Vineyard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha%27s_Vineyard). It's time to stretch Godot's legs a bit. :)
A friend of mine, was sailing to Brazil a couple of years ago-from Sweden-He told me about the "Nav light" He sead it's so much better to put it on the mast top and not on deck, coz' it will not last for long in open seas.
Quote from: ntica on June 06, 2012, 05:07:39 AM
A friend of mine, was sailing to Brazil a couple of years ago-from Sweden-He told me about the "Nav light" He sead it's so much better to put it on the mast top and not on deck, coz' it will not last for long in open seas.
Sure. Keeping it away from the raging sea will likely prolong its' life. Also, it will be likely easier to see in the big swells.
However, it is much more difficult to mount on the masthead. Maybe I'd do that if I was pulling my mast for some reason; but I won't pull the mast specifically to install it. Maintaining the light on the pulpit will be much easier. And you're not supposed to use a tricolor when under power.
In the end, I'm not expecting to spend much time in open seas in this boat.
Having had both- Mast head lights are great for sailing, open seas. Coastal waters I prefer them down lower.
Ships can see mast heads better. Shrimp boats and small outboard boats see lower lights much easier.
Also for that reason , I refuse to have an anchor light up top of the mast- wrong place to be seen easily, plus COLREGS says- " in the fore part of the vessel or where easily seen". Where I anchor, there aren't any ships coming through, but LOTS of small boats. I want it where the small boats can see it.
I agree wholeheartedly. High nav and anchor lights are good when way out on the open water, but difficult to see in a crowded anchorage or when lost in a backdrop of street lights and other sources ashore. If you're between the boat and the shore, it's not much of a problem, but if you have to try to pick out a boats lights from all the ones shining out from a densely populated area, lights low to the water will be much easier to see. I've lost my own boat once among a large cluster of towering parking lot lights!
The new toilet is in and plumbed for deck pump out. That was a bigger job than I expected. The water fill has been moved to the starboard side, so there is less chance of contamination (also a major pain as I switched from a one inch fill to an inch and a half). I bent all the sails on, ran through reefing drills, tried the "new" reefing storm jib...it took several visits to the chandelry to get everything I needed to make it work right. I installed a new large cleat on the foredeck to replace the one I had to remove when I installed the anchor roller. I fixed a damage hatch used to access space under the v-berth. The water tanks are sanitizing with a bleach dilution. I'll pump and flush in the AM. I finished up a bunch of minor projects.
I need to install the new cockpit seats. I need to put the dinghy back together and somehow get it to the boat (I miss my truck). Provision. Clean and organize. And I'm ready to go...
I hope to leave for Martha's Vineyard tomorrow afternoon.
Hooray for shoving off! Good sailing :)
well done And happy sailing too
Quote from: Godot on June 08, 2012, 11:53:35 PM
I hope to leave for Martha's Vineyard tomorrow afternoon.
Be sure to check out Lake Tashmoo as an anchorage. (There is a two-night restriction. I don't know how carefully it's enforced.) Let me know if you decide to head north, through Buzzards Bay, to the Canal.
Best of Luck!
--Joe
Some comments:
There is a little shelf(?) at the bottom of the "chain locker" that you can cut out to let the chain set much further down.
My boat had a great little bow-sprit that was really just there to move the anchor roller out of the way a bit. It was just a thick piece of teak or something. It was very useful and even looked attractive. Definitely freed up valuable foredeck space by not having an anchor shaft intruding into it!.
That claw anchor does sound awfully small. The general rule of thumb is 1# per ft (LWL) so the 22# is probably more suitable. I'd really suggest saving up for a Manson Supreme or Rocna, though. My 35' 15k lb cutter has a ton of windage and has held through 80knots + on a single Rocna 55 and Kong swivel with all 3/8 BBB rode. Been on that anchor for years- really should have a mooring setup instead! Always need the engine to break it free, though.
The flat spot aft of the "ice box" in the aft dinette seat conceals an empty space big enough for a 2-battery locker. Make a cut in the top of this large enough to swing the batteries into and you free up some space under the cockpit again. I believe you can also fit a battery under the sink in the head "area". I think I had a motorcycle battery there to run the Lectra-San....
Even Wal-Mart sells a small "battery maintainer" solar panel that is great at keeping a small battery bank topped off for running LEDs. It doesn't need a charge controller since it has too low of an AMP rating. I used one for a year at anchor and then gave it to a friend who cruised with it for another year and it was still going strong last I heard.
I always wanted to cut away part of the forward end of the cockpit and install a true bridge deck that came level with the seats. I had planned to use the space under this as a little wet locker. The walls of the wet locker would have supported the cockpit sole and the companionway stairs would have hinged like a door to access this space.
My boat had a stern platform that was level with the aft cap rail. The main traveler anchored it to the aft end of the boat and stainless steel tubes braced it against the transom. It came even with or perhaps slightly overhung the aft end of the transom. It was a two-piece affair leaving a space for the engine to tilt up. It made raising and lowering the motor much easier.
You could easily mount a 10# propane tank to the stern of the boat. I also have those fiberglass/plastic see-through ones and they are a terrific size for small boats.
When your boat is out of the water- look at the swept-back keel. "Filling in" the blank space between the aft end of the keel and the hull with a sheet of fiberglass will help with the weather helm issue by moving the center of lateral resistance aft.
You know those big plastic and rubber wheels used on wagons these days (children's wagons)? I know someone who swears by using one of those on the end of an anchor rode for a stern drogue. He puts the rope through the center of it and ties a fat knot to keep it from slipping off.
Get a small rectangular trash can from Wal-Mart with a good, sturdy lip around the top of it. Take a piece of plywood and cut it out so the trash can lip sits on the plywood and hangs from it. Secure the plywood to some slides and bolt the slides to the under-side of the table so they pass by on either side of the support post. Now you can just slide the trash can out from under the table to toss stuff in it, and lift it out to empty it. You don't even hit your knees on it if you're a little careful.
Put a swing-up shelf on the aft end of the galley. In it's down position it doesn't intrude much into the quarterberth area but in it's up position it gives about another foot of counter-space.
Hope you can use or be inspired by some of these ideas!
I made it to the C&D; but the ocean forecast was poop so turned back. I'll be driving up and catching a ride with a buddy on his power boat. The low should be out of the area by then. Hopefully. Sorry to scrap the trip; but the forecast called for 30+ knots on the nose and 10+ foot seas. A bit more than I'm comfortable with I'm afraid. Better part of valor and all that. Godot just does not go to weather in 30 knots. I've tried. Although I now have a smaller jib to go with my second reef point in the mains'l, so maybe I can get her to balance better now. I'm not quite sure what 10 foot waves 30 miles off the New Jersey coast would feel like; but I'm willing to bet it wouldn't be fun.
Seafarer, it would appear that you have owned this exact same boat. I think I've seen similar posts on other boards some years ago that I am guessing came from you. Your ideas are very good.
The chain locker hint is something I definitely need to look into. Since I up-sized to 1/2" rode I have found that 150' barely fit and have been thinking of clever ways to expand the space. If all I need to do is cut out the bottom (I won't need to do anything else? It is tight up there so I'm not looking forward to having to build a specially shaped box), then that is something I definitely will look into.
The claw anchor has worked unbelievably well in mud. I anchored in Worton Creek on my way back yesterday for lunch. I didn't really try very hard to set the anchor. And I had a brutal time pulling it up. So far I'm impressed, although my experience is with a very limited set of bottoms. Two anchorages, and two times I had to work at it. So far, so good. I'm thinking a little bowsprit would have been a good idea, though, just to avoid the anchor banging on the hull when pulling it up the last few inches.
A swing up shelf at the aft end of the galley is something I've planned on for years. I just haven't gotten around to it yet. I haven't really used the quarter berth area as anything but a catch-all. If I can find a way to get more organized I'd love to make it a legitimate berth.
That drogue idea seems awfully clever. And cheap. I might give it a try. I've been planning on experimenting some in nasty wind; but I am hoping to have someone along to help out. I mostly single hand; but during experimentation it sure is nice to have a helping hand while figuring things out.
Cutting into the space behind the aft dinette seat is intriguing. I'm certainly not shy about cutting my boat up; but that, strangely, hadn't occurred to me.
I was thinking about a bridge deck. I was just going to build something onto the cockpit to hold lines (I really have way too many on the boat and they are constantly in the way; but I'm loath to get rid of them). Cutting the forward part of the cockpit out for a decent wet locker would help solve a major problem (what to do with all the wet stuff); but is a bit frightening given the major surgery aspect. I tend to keep a big plastic tote under the cockpit full of spare parts and miscellaneous stuff and often a cooler that would be harder to access with a locker in the way, though. Might be worth some thought.
I've already modified the dinette fairly extensively; but I find the best thing to do most of the time is to take down the table. It sort of gets in the way. Actually dropping the table into the "double berth" configuration is becoming my favorite choice. I don't think the trash bin will work for me. I have a little yellow collapsible can that sits under the dropped table and seems to work pretty well. That's also where I keep the Penny the Cat's (no cat sitter means she is now Penny the Sailor Cat...toot toot) food and water cup (which fits into the table pole mount and is therefor pretty sturdy). I'll get a picture some day.
My next major project will probably be tearing out the hanging locker. I find it pretty useless to hang anything in. I think I'll replace it with a cabinet with a flat top just a little higher than the galley counter. This will hopefully make the head/forepeak area a little less claustrophobic, provide a bit more horizontal surface (always useful, although I keep forgetting to clear it before sailing), and a couple storage cubbies which I think will be better than the closet. Also redoing the galley with a deeper sink, foot pump, and a better stove solution has been on my mind.
I have come to the conclusion that under bunk storage is not acceptable for frequent access. I'd like to figure out an easily accessible "day storage" area for commonly grabbed items (mostly snacks, lunch, a drink or two) and try to limit my under berth foraging trips to once a day or so. I have some ideas; but they all come with compromises. Still thinking on it.
My plan is to eventually move aboard. I'm a couple years behind in that plan (what else is new? I'm a couple years behind in all my plans); but it is certainly in the future. I'm just not sure 24' is enough given the large supply of inexpensive used boats on the market. An upgrade may be in my future (I'm considering a number of boats in the 27-32 foot range) if I ever get any money. I guess I'll keep slowly modifying until the time is right to make the big change.
Quote from: Oldrig on June 11, 2012, 12:03:03 PM
Be sure to check out Lake Tashmoo as an anchorage.
I spent a night there once. There is a convenient dinghy dock within a mile or so walk to Vineyard Haven. Where most seaports are full of bars, Vineyard Haven is a dry town and is instead full of ice cream parlors. Lake Tashmoo was quiet, although we ended up dragging anchor (while not aboard...we had to go looking for the boat, happily found in soft mud, in the pitch black moonless night after returning from town).
Quote from: Godot on June 13, 2012, 02:20:41 AM
Vineyard Haven is a dry town
VH is dry no more!
Last year the good people of Tisbury finally ended prohibition. It was a close vote, but you can now order drinks in restaurants, instead of bringing your own--and sometimes paying a hefty "corkage fee" to have the server open your bottle for you.
FWIW, Vineyard Haven is my favorite place on the island. Traffic is a problem when the ferries load/unload, but it's a lot less pretentious than Edgartown and less boisterous than Oak Bluffs. Menemsha is also cool, but not much room for recreational vessels in the basin. (Larsen's has the best/freshest lobster and chowdah ever!)
Enjoy your trip to the island ... one of my favorite spots.
--Joe
My first monohull was a '74 Seafarer 24 with the Futura deck and fixed keel. I bought it in 2000 from the original owner! I'm 5'10" tall and the limited headroom got old so I eventually sold it and started looking for something bigger. Ended up with the Cal Cruising 35 which is way too complicated for me so I'm selling it for $10k to get out of debt and start looking for something that needs less work. Bought the IP26MKI which is roomy enough, fairly simple, and doesn't really need much work. However, the cockpit is entirely retarded and I'm not sure how safe the boat will be for offshore sailing so it's going up for sale soon as well ($5k). I probably should have stuck with the Seafarer and endured the limited headroom ::)
I would really recommend fitting a gimballed 2-burner propane stove into the galley, even if you have to cut the counter-top out / deeper to make room for it. That being said, you could likely do just as well with a propane grill off the stern of the boat- you'll just have to live with cooking in the rain on occasion.
Go for the deep sink- you won't regret it! Probably the easiest mod you'll ever do!
Incidentally, Good Old Boat appears to have an upcoming review on the Seafarer 24 and are looking for input:
QuoteDear friends and fellow sailors,
We'd like to begin including sailors' input about specific models of sailboats. Our reviewers are traveling all over this summer to bring you boat reviews. But sometimes when they're sitting on the boat there's too much wind or not enough wind or no wind at all. Even when the wind cooperates, they can't possibly get -- in a day or two -- the full range of experience that owners of these boats will accumulate in many seasons of sailing. That's where you come in.
One upcoming review boat on our schedule is:
Seafarer 24
Do you have a Seafarer 24? Have you had one in the past? Do you know someone who owns or has owned one?
If yes, we'd like to hear from you. Please send your comments to the guy who manages our boat reviews, Dan Spurr:
danspurr [at] aol [dot] com
Tell Dan about the sailing characteristics (good and bad), the level of quality in the build, quirky things to watch out for, the good things that are true selling points for this boat, and anything else that springs to mind.
If this isn't a boat you've sailed on in the past, please stay tuned. We'll be sending these messages every so often with requests for input on other boats we'll be reviewing. We're bound to come upon one that is or has been in your collection over the years.
Thanks for sharing your experience with "the rest of us"!
The crew at Good Old Boat
Quote from: Seafarer on June 12, 2012, 01:01:17 AM
When your boat is out of the water- look at the swept-back keel. "Filling in" the blank space between the aft end of the keel and the hull with a sheet of fiberglass will help with the weather helm issue by moving the center of lateral resistance aft.
Did you have a weather helm problem? I find the helm is largely neutral (working jib, full main), and by tweaking the sails I can add in a little weather or lee helm as desired (usually I leave it neutral as the autopilot seems to work better that way).
Modifications are now on indefinite hold. I'll finish a few projects that are ongoing; but that is it. The decision has been made to step up to something a little bigger. I should be out of my house, one way or another, sometime next year, and will be moving aboard, well, something.
Boats in consideration: Grampian 30 (a really well outfitted one is in New York...I'll be looking at it next weekend), Bristol 30, Tartan 27 (the Bristol and Tartan are also on my visit list next weekend), Ericson 27, Tartan 30, Bayfield 29. I'll be working my way through that list to see if any of the ones for sale nearby will work for me. If not, there are lots of other boats available.
Adam, I was just browsing the boat classifieds and saw this Westerly Centaur 26 in your area. A very roomy boat for 26 ft LOA.
"Very good condition. Must sell, $3500"
http://baltimore.craigslist.org/boa/3133783886.html
Thanks on the Westerly link. I hesitate to consider only a two foot increase. I want this next boat to be with me for a long time and am really thinking thirty feet is about right. The Tartan 27 and Ericson 27 (and maybe an Albin Vega if there was one for sale around here) I think are pushing my minimum size range. However, I've never been inside a Centaur, so will do some research. Maybe I'll be surprised. I wish the ad had some interior shots (and a larger main photo that wasn't upside down).
I'm looking for value; but I'm not looking this time for cheap. I'm hoping to find something that is fairly well set up from the get go and doesn't need a huge amount of rework. Boat work is an enjoyable hobby; but I just don't have the time for a major refit, and I'm getting to the point where I'd rather be sailing.
You're welcome, Adam. Thought that it might be an interesting design for you to check out, as an experience, whichever boat you ultimately choose.
Here's an archive on the Centaur with some interior photos...
http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/westerly-centaur/westerly-centaur.htm
and the page at the Westerly Owners Association website...
http://www.westerly-owners.co.uk/boat_centaur_26.php
which has a link to an article on the development of the Centaur.
I like the Layout A interior (typical of the early Centaurs) with the large dinette especially as a live-aboard boat.