I'm ready to move on up to my "forever boat".
Tell me what you would choose and why. I intend to add a monitor wind vane, and sail offshore. What order would you put them in as preference? Tankage and a functional propane galley are a must. I like tiller steering and protected rudder.
$15,000-20,000 to spend
Between 32-35 feet
Liveaboard, "still working a job" cruiser
Cal 33
Tartan 34C
Tartan 30
Bristol 35.5 not (C)
Morgan OI 33
Morgan 32
Bristol 32
S&S 34
Pearson 35
Alberg 35
Pearson vanguard
If it were me, I would choose the heaviest boat with the fullest keel.
However, there is a lot to be said for Go simple, go with what you have, go now.
Since you said you'll have a job for a while, my advice at the top only applies if you are going to go offshore for sure some day. If you are brutally honest with yourself about your cruising grounds, most of those boats would be OK if you're not travelling exceptionally far offshore. Otherwise, some are better than others.
Good all around with exceptional offshore ability....Alberg 35
Sweet sailor
And
PRETTY !
VERY PRETTY !!
My 1.5 cents. ;)
I have done a ton of work on a Vanguard 32 for a customer. That is design by Phil Rhodes and solid as a rock.I have a plug from the hull sitting here by my computer, where I added a thru hull for him. It is right at 1 inch thick
If it's in good condition, the boat will take you anywhere
Oh-That design is my Tehani on steroids. Almost identical shapes..
Edited-
Found a pic of that hull plug. If I were inclined to move up from Tehani, I would not hesitate to go to a Vanguard 32
You guys never fail, thank you. I have moved up from a 26' Ariel and now a sabre 28'. Even though I have had a long lull in posting I have been a lurker. Besides that, I have come a long way with offshore experience and knowing what I like/want/need. I have been over 400 NM off shore and that's all I plan on doing, no ocean crossing at this time. The longest passage would be 1,500 miles to the Caribbean. I have made living aboard and sailing a lifestyle choice, it's dear to my heart. I have been accused of "obsessing over a boat". Anyways, the Ariel was way too small and I have no idea how the two made it on faith, just wow (I didn't even have a proper marine head on mine). My sabre 28 is OK for the time being, but I'm a little over loaded and over the water line, I'm going to be raising it this spring. I have to have room for tools, scuba gear, 2 tanks, folding dinghy, extra water, spares, etc. my vague plan is to cruise and try to make money wherever I can when I can. I'm not greedy just practical and frugal.
My next boat will be purchased opportunistically within the next two years. BTW I have a union job where I can continue paying my dues and waltz back into a job seasonally. It's a perfect scenario. I started dreaming of boats at 19, bought my first liveaboard at 28 and now a full liveaboard with my second boat at 30. I can't wait to settle into my perfect "forever boat" I realize my needs and wants and I would be very happy at 35 feet. I want to spend lots of time at anchor and have lots of storage/capacity. Eventually I would like to add the water maker and be almost totally independent.
Thank you again, I will bump the vanguard 32 up on my list. By the way I am done, done! With alcohol stoves. I have almost had a boat on fire, smoked out and annoyed to death. Propane please! I could also use more sensible storage for food.
Quote from: Bubba the Pirate on February 17, 2016, 02:32:37 PM
If it were me, I would choose the heaviest boat with the fullest keel.
However, there is a lot to be said for Go simple, go with what you have, go now.
Since you said you'll have a job for a while, my advice at the top only applies if you are going to go offshore for sure some day. If you are brutally honest with yourself about your cruising grounds, most of those boats would be OK if you're not travelling exceptionally far offshore. Otherwise, some are better than others.
Define "exceptionally offshore". I would be willing to go from Chesapeake bay to the Caribbean and then perhaps Panama Canal to puget sound.
Thank you.
Wow, that is some serious fibreglass on that Vanguard! If it were to drag on anchor and end up on a reef I bet you could just kedge it off when the weather improves and there would not be much damage?
I don't know any of these boats but I have looked at them online.
The question is, as someone said, be honest with your intended sailing area or style.
Any one of them will safely cross an ocean, provided that it is in good shape and correctly equipped, though some perhaps more comfortably than others.
A few of the boats on your list have more of a performance design and some with retractable keel. This may give you access to areas that demand shallow draft. They may also be more fun to sail and if that is what you like then a more slugish boat may for ever make you wish you had chosen a faster design.
There is no perfect boat - only the right compromise, for you!
Quote from: lastgreatgeneration on February 18, 2016, 01:39:51 AM
Define "exceptionally offshore". I would be willing to go from Chesapeake bay to the Caribbean and then perhaps Panama Canal to puget sound.
Thank you.
[/quote]
I've already pontificated enough for a guy with just a smattering of ocean experience. I will stand by the first part when I said "if it were me."
That being said while the Caribbean offers many levels of difficuly, Panama to Puget Sound is some serious sailing. I wish you the best of luck and hope to see you out there someday.
TrT
After careful consideration I have narrowed down the boat list.
Morgan 32
Bristol 32
Alberg 35
Pearson vanguard
Bristol 34
I like the go small, go now mantra. I will see if I can look at one of each of these. Any thoughts on deck stepped mast vs keel stepped? Lots of these boats have deck stepped. I assume it's a non issue considering how many of these pedigree boats come with them. I have been seeing really reasonable deals on Bristol 32s and the Vanguards.
Quote from: lastgreatgeneration on February 19, 2016, 02:04:22 PM
After careful consideration I have narrowed down the boat list.
Morgan 32
Bristol 32
Alberg 35
Pearson vanguard
Bristol 34
I like the go small, go now mantra. I will see if I can look at one of each of these. Any thoughts on deck stepped mast vs keel stepped? Lots of these boats have deck stepped. I assume it's a non issue considering how many of these pedigree boats come with them. I have been seeing really reasonable deals on Bristol 32s and the Vanguards.
Hello Lastgreatgeneration
I'm sympathize with your situation, ive been studying different boats for a bit now for the time im able to just go. and while im not going to direct you to any certain boat, i would say dont narrow your search to much, but broaden it, the boats you have may be fine, but there are so many other boats out there to consider as well. some may be made buy smaller builders and some built in Europe. i guess im just saying dont mentally paint your self into a corner with a certain boat.
Quote from: Cyric30 on February 19, 2016, 08:10:05 PM
Quote from: lastgreatgeneration on February 19, 2016, 02:04:22 PM
After careful consideration I have narrowed down the boat list.
Morgan 32
Bristol 32
Alberg 35
Pearson vanguard
Bristol 34
I like the go small, go now mantra. I will see if I can look at one of each of these. Any thoughts on deck stepped mast vs keel stepped? Lots of these boats have deck stepped. I assume it's a non issue considering how many of these pedigree boats come with them. I have been seeing really reasonable deals on Bristol 32s and the Vanguards.
Hello Lastgreatgeneration
I'm sympathize with your situation, ive been studying different boats for a bit now for the time im able to just go. and while im not going to direct you to any certain boat, i would say dont narrow your search to much, but broaden it, the boats you have may be fine, but there are so many other boats out there to consider as well. some may be made buy smaller builders and some built in Europe. i guess im just saying dont mentally paint your self into a corner with a certain boat.
True, however most boats from smaller builders are from varying quality. Not saying that individual boats didn't have great boats but the parts can be limited and the owner clubs nonexistent. I like focusing and comparing many similar boats that are plentiful so I can get a good handle on what a good deal and isn't.
Personally, with keeping track of miscellaneous builders can get confusing and taxing. That being said, do you have any suggestions of boats in this criteria that you mentioned?
I would have to say in your case the best boat is the one you already have . If that sabre is in good shape it is well suited to what you intend to do. Updating it should be pretty easy and inexpensive . Love the one you're with
Looks a fairly nice Alberg 35 on Norfolk?Richmond craigslist. $12k has a fairly new diesel. maybe worth a look
Quote from: Lars on February 20, 2016, 06:10:27 AM
I would have to say in your case the best boat is the one you already have . If that sabre is in good shape it is well suited to what you intend to do. Updating it should be pretty easy and inexpensive . Love the one you're with
This boat in it's current condition was a great deal. However they don't make any more replacement parts for this ancient volvo md-7a. I do not trust it even though it seems to be well maintained except for the rotted out thermostat housing. So, a few issues. It has wheel steering and wheel pilots start at $1,500 and are complex. I want tiller again. The engine with it's dubious reliability and obviously re powering is not in the cards. It would easily exceed double what I paid for the boat.
With that in mind I could buy something like that alberg 35 with a newer yanmar and low hours for. $12,000.
I could easily sell this boat and get back to exactly what I need. Plus this boat has a main that is off of a slightly smaller boat and the jib needs to be repaired and restitched.
This boat is my home now. I was in a pinch moving out here from the west coast.
When looking at live aboard boats you would do well to consider the beam. My Cal 29 has more interior space than the Vanguard 32.
Other things to think about are the ability to go to weather and relative speed.
The old CCA rule boats are good looking but I think you will find much better performance in a more modern design.
Tartan 30
Catalina 30
Cal 34
P 323
A bit more beam for sure gives more room inside.. For example, BIG difference in interior volume between my Meridian at 7 foot beam, and an Ariel at 8 feet. And just 1 foot difference in LOA
Liveaboard qualities and Offshore Sailing capablility are nearly mutually exclusive.
Personally, I would not go offshore in a beamy modern boat with a fin keel and a spade rudder. The design imperative is "compromise."
If you're only going to live aboard and cruise nearby - perfect.
Panama to Puget Sound - uncomfortable & not really suited to the task.
Plenty of people have done it. That doesn't mean it was comfortable and just because one person made it in a design not suited for the trip, does not guarantee it will work out for the next skipper.
"Past performance is not an indicator of future results." I've heard said.
To each his own, but I prefer a boat with adequate interior space, a decent turn of speed and the ability to go upwind.
I think one thing that is extremely important is simple honesty.....
Honestly on how you will actually use your boat....
WAY too often I've seen people outfit a vessel capable of "going around" only to cruise in areas that a much lessor vessel would have been suffice. The downside of this is $$ spent on items not needed, too big a boat and way too deep a draft.
One can cruise from the east coast to Florida, the Bahamas, Jamaica, San Andrais, San Blas, Venuswala, etc and no passage is more than about 48hrs... Well withing a good Forcast on a coastal cruiser.
Once in any of these places, a Beamy, well ventolated boat with shallow draft is a real bonus!!
Yet some burden themselves with a big deep draft boat as if they were going offshore for 30+ days each passage..
Just saying......be totally honest in how you will actually use the boat.... Then outfit accordingly
Well yes and this is exactly where I find myself. Last two times I was offshore I experienced good and bad weather easily survivable. One was the Chesapeake to Delaware bay, flat calm the entire time. Then a ten day passage I can't remember every day exactly but for four days we were in a gale and then a tropical depression to flat calm and no wind for almost 24 hours. The hydraulic autopilot was working so hard it was consuming an unbelievable amount of power. So much we had to triage the refrigerator and chart plotters. For hours we had to steer by hand. It was a wauquiez 41.
More or less I think it comes down to a capable sane skipper and a well found boat with redundant safety systems in place. Keep the rig up and the water out. I would feel safer in bad weather far off shore rather than being coastal anyways. More or less when the time comes I think I'll take the group of boats everyone has mentioned and get the best boat for the money.
There is a pearson p-323 for sale right now in New York, it might sell for 15k but they are asking 20k. That is a really nice boat for the money.
Do remember- the thrust of this forum is SBLD- small boats, long distance
Many of us have done that sort of sailing
I trust my Meridian - I've cruised here almost 12000 miles since refurb and relaunch, including across GulfOf Mexico single hand
I DETEST the current sailing mags for -Ya gotta have a 40 footer Plus to be safe. It AIN'T True
Would I like a bit more room below? sure, but wwould I go to a 40 footer? No way.
Now I will admit, if I was planning to live aboard, full time, with no land bases site, I'd go slightly bigger-like 30-32 feet. But that's all.
Failing that,, my 25 foot is just right
And I've been offshore for days- 7 days delivery across GOM on a 41 footer for one. Jammed to windward all 7days- we slept on the salon sole
Try this-
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/boa/5460445488.html
I've sailed on a P 323 and they are good sailing boats. A PHRF of 174 means you don't have to stow as much beer.
poop, that looks like a steal.
someone will prolly jump that quick, unless something bad wrong.
ive often wondered why the coaster, and its sister the wanderer aren't on any good old boats list?
Quote from: CharlieJ on February 23, 2016, 11:03:41 PM
Try this-
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/boa/5460445488.html
Wow that is a really nice boat. My heart and bank account is set on small boats. I am a full time live aboard who has to go to work. I also like being at anchor until it gets really cold outside. That being said I will require at least enough storage space to make that possible.
I really like the size of the Sabre 28, it is ok. Actually I might be happier on a tartan 30. I think 32 feet might be my max length, seems like costs go up exponentially after that length. I do like a little extra beam though. After living on my Pearson Ariel I have a new found appreciation for my current almost 2' of extra beam. I have a floor! Albeit it's curved and becomes a slip and slide if you are wearing socks.
I really detest a few certain things about small boats (being a live aboard).
-no propane stove
-fold down tables
-lack of well thought out storage
-no shower, even a tiny one
-icebox, it's a hellish pit where nothing lives
-anchor lockers (mine has one and I love it)
Still, I am brutally honest and I want to set a boat up for ocean cruising. I'm currently looking for a monitor wind vane. I'll buy it most likely before I get the next boat. I would really like to do 6/6 months on off. Leave in the fall go south and then come back in the spring. I do realize I will need a whole lot of storage space for food. I mean, converting the entire vee berth into shelves for storage.
Take a look at this ad
http://annapolis.craigslist.org/boa/5461109437.html
Wow that's a lot of boat. I hope there are still good deals when I am officially in the market again.
Knowing what designs you like is a good point for dreaming and starting searches. But when it comes down to shopping, I think the most fruitful approach is to look at a lot of boats. Preferably in person.
If our boat shopping experience is at all indicative of the market in general, many (most?) 40-year-old boats 30 feet or greater and less than $50K have serious problems. Our problem was never finding boats with a design good enough for coastal cruising. Our problem was finding boats in condition good enough for coastal cruising. Despite the earnest proclamations of owners, brokers, and surveyors most of the boats needed major surgery to be called "seaworthy".
For instance, Westsail 32s are supposed to be "world cruising" brick poop houses, and that may have been true when they were splashed. After looking at so many rotten, time ravaged Westsails (including ours), I propose that a good design signifies little but the possibility of seaworthiness. A thick hull is great, but we saw lots of boats with immaculate inch-thick hulls and decks too rotten to hold hardware.
My point is that the limiting factor in your search may not be design, but rather condition. In which case, you may benefit from expanding your list and looking at as many boats as possible in hopes of finding those gems that have been well maintained. Of course, it never hurts to have a list of boats you're keeping a special eye out for.
I agree entirely ralay. The bigger you go the deal might not be as sweet. I love small boats. I have been seeing some. 30-32 boats like the tartan 30 etc. selling in top condition for around 10k-15k. And being completely honest I like the Sabre 28 it would be great if it was a little heavier.
The water line on the Sabre 28 (22.83) is comparable to that of a 32 alberg derived boat.
"Top condition" in the ads or "top condition" when you're poking and tapping?
Quote from: ralay on February 25, 2016, 04:49:38 PM
"Top condition" in the ads or "top condition" when you're poking and tapping?
Are you suggesting some boats may not be as advertised???? NO!!! I'm shocked!! ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: lastgreatgeneration on February 25, 2016, 04:10:25 PMAnd being completely honest I like the Sabre 28 it would be great if it was a little heavier.
The water line on the Sabre 28 (22.83) is comparable to that of a 32 alberg derived boat.
I looked at a Sabre 28 before I bought Seeker. I thought it would be perfect in so many ways. I seem to remember a significant lack of stowage, however.
Update,
I just jumped on a westerly corsair 36 (she comes in at 35' 6") A great deal for what I paid. Has auto pilot, self tailing winches, harken roller furl, and a well maintained Volvo diesel. The boat needs some fiberglass work which I can't wait to get on. I'm thinking about having the bottom and iron keel blasted. I think it would be worth it considering there's like 10 layers of paint and a rusty keel.
Since I'm mostly a liveaboard I think this boat is a great size and well equipped for cruising. I was going to look at that alberg 35 for sale in deltaville but for the same price of a slip I get 3x the boat and living space with the westerly.
80 gallon water tankage
Manual windlass
2x bow rollers
Propane stove/oven
Hot water/Shower!
Full cockpit enclosure and sunshades
New ball valve seacocks
Working wind indicator/depth/navigation
Today at bacon sails I picked up a monitor wheel adapter for $23! Cart before horse but I couldn't pass that deal up.