I see these boats popping up now and again and I'm pretty intrigued. I'm interested to know what you guys think of them. I realize they kind of violate the "pocket cruiser" standard with the length and draft, but they look to be a sturdy boat. It seems like it would be a fantastic Great Lakes cruiser. I'm sure most of you have read my other posts as I change my mind wandering through the various phases of boat-lust. I'm interested to hear your opinions on the Alberg 35 for a family weekender + occasional singlehanded voyager.
I think it'd be a good choice... I don't think that Carl Alberg ever drew a bad boat... some were not as good as others...but I don't think he ever drew one I'd call bad.
[ . I'm interested to hear your opinions on the Alberg 35 for a family weekender + occasional singlehanded voyager.
[/quote]
I didn't look it up but would assume the boat at 12000+lbs, about 500+ft of sail and about 5+ft draft. Now...read your question again ;D GREAT, seaworthy boat ...just a lot of it
There was an older fellow (maybe even as old as CJ ;D) at the marina I was in before this one who had a CD36. He had been living aboard for a number of years, had singlehanded up and down the East Coast. You should be able to handle it. :)
Before I got my Ariel, I had some talks with a guy down in S Fla who had an A-35 and was looking to trade down. He liked the idea of my CP23D which I still had at the time, but there were 2 problems: 1) the distance factor, and 2) he thought it would only be a fair trade if I added in some cash (which I did not have). He was probably right, but still... ;)
Had that trade come about, though, I wouldn't be sitting here on my Ariel, and sailFar might never have come into existence. All in all, I think I am better off with this boat, and things the way they are. :)
I still haven't had a chance to get aboard an Ariel. They are pretty boats. I'll be working on vinegarj this summer to try and get out for a sail on his A30. ;) I've seen two A35s in Lake Michigan for sale this spring. The Alberg 35 offers one luxury that I appreciate - LOA. Both my wife and I have tendencies to motion sickness and I've found that it is MUCH less severe as the boat length increases.
I guess it's all going to come down to what's available next spring after I complete my undergrad (ten years late). Wife has agreed that we can take on some additional debt for next season so she doesn't have to listen to me go on and on and on, and on... about boats anymore :)
THere's a Pearson 35 coming into our marina that is for sale- asking 6000 firm.
Laura has been aboard- she says it would ONLY take maybe another 20 to 30K to make it cruise worthy ;D Not to mention a few years work.
Yea -- definitely want to avoid something like that. I want something that I can jump on and sail. As much as I would have all good intentions about a project boat... it's probably not for me. Small projects and modifications? Sure!
Here's one that got me thinking, but doubt she'll be around when I'm ready ---
http://www.sailboatlistings.com/cgi-bin/saildata/db.cgi?db=default&uid=default&view_records=1&ID=12350&mh=1 (http://www.sailboatlistings.com/cgi-bin/saildata/db.cgi?db=default&uid=default&view_records=1&ID=12350&mh=1)
Quote from: mkeChris on May 14, 2009, 10:04:54 AM
I want something that I can jump on and sail.
*snicker*
I have yet to see a boat you can jump on and sail...at least in terms of long cruises.
Oh sure -- before I go on any long cruises I'm sure there's plenty to do. I'm talkin a sail around the harbor for starters. I recently had an encounter with a storm front and a seawall that tells me I need some more heavy weather experience before I take on any long cruises.
So what I'm gathering from you fellas is that an A35 would be a fine choice if I could find one in my price range and desired condition. Other than the obvious length problem, nobody would steer clear because of some notorious shortcoming? I know they have two layouts and I can't say I'm a fan of the starboard galley, but I've never had a cruising boat to know. I just know that I'm more familiar with the aft galley.
The port galley makes far more sense IMHO. If you're on a starboard tack, which you would ideally want for longer passages... a starboard galley would be difficult to cook in, where a portside galley would be far more usable. :)
........"In 1979, while those modern boats were capsizing and sinking, an Alberg 35 on it's way to England comfortably lay a-hull. "
"It was really blowing and though they shortened sails and did everything else they could in order to keep going, they eventually took everything off, went below, battened down the hatches and just ate, drank and played cards. When it had blown over they hoisted sail and continued to England, where they were told they had just sailed through the same gale that had taken 16 lives in the Fastnet race. They had ridden out the storm by just sitting in the cabin while everyone else was capsizing."
Carl comments..
"There are still some designers around who whare my ideas about glass boat design. ".........unfortunately very few left now.
Quote from: Frank on May 15, 2009, 08:42:16 AM
they eventually took everything off, went below, battened down the hatches and just ate, drank and played cards
So your recommendation is to buy a nice big Alberg boat and don't worry about sailing skills... Just hide below when the weather comes ;) I can do this!
Chris- you might do what I did.
Bought an old Catalina 27 for the cost of the trailer it was on. I had stars in my eyes and did not see the snicker of the guy taking the cash. It needed everything. But I sailed her anyway- old sails- and old outboard. I did everything wrong, but learned alot from her. Grounded her while trying to sail her into the harbor...Launched her with her thru-hulls open and no hose attached...The list goes on. But I learned what it took to be a yacht owner, and then retired her and sold the trailer.
Now my Compac is cherry because of the lessons learned. And I found out I don't need a large boat for alot of the sailing that I do.
Get yourself a beater...
You'll be better for it.
Quote from: mkeChris on May 14, 2009, 09:41:27 AM
Wife has agreed that we can take on some additional debt for next season so she doesn't have to listen to me go on and on and on, and on... about boats anymore :)
Really? She actually believes that getting a new boat will keep you from going on and on about boats? ;D
Off course, I am going to be a stick in the mud on this topic. But first some pictures (which this thread is sorely lacking) of an Alberg 35 neighbor of mine.
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_rqLNS-z1IIU/SgbrJwmFnTI/AAAAAAAAKDI/fbm-MlYa2rs/s800/Bolero%20Sailing%20-%2003.JPG)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_rqLNS-z1IIU/SgbrKI5aJNI/AAAAAAAAKDM/d-G7f3a3A7g/s800/Bolero%20Sailing%20-%2005.JPG)
While I can certainly see the aesthetic and luxury attractions of the Alberg 35, it is a large sailboat. At 13,000 lbs displacement with 500 to 700 feet of sail area she is no day sailer. I am of the opinion that actual sailing is inversely proportionate to boat size, weight and sail area.
In addition, her maintenance and upkeep will be many times that of, say, an Ariel.
My advice is always buy the least boat you need. You will sail it more often, your maintenance dollars will go further and buy better stuff and you will have more fun.
Just my two cents, your mileage may vary.
Cheers, Bill
So your recommendation is to buy a nice big Alberg boat and don't worry about sailing skills... Just hide below when the weather comes ;) I can do this!
[/quote]
NOPE. Just pointing out that they are a capable offshore boat. If you scroll back to an earlier post of mine here it hints at what others have said..."it ain't no daysailor" I totally agree with "buy the smallest boat that will work" post... ;D.
Earlier post
I'm interested to hear your opinions on the Alberg 35 for a family weekender + occasional singlehanded voyager.
[/quote]
my responce
I didn't look it up but would assume the boat at 12000+lbs, about 500+ft of sail and about 5+ft draft. Now...read your question again GREAT, seaworthy boat ...just a lot of it
Quote from below-
"My advice is always buy the least boat you need. You will sail it more often, your maintenance dollars will go further and buy better stuff and you will have more fun."
Which is KINDA the whole premise behind this web site and forum isn't it? Get a small boat that fills your needs and GO places with it.
I've been working for quite a few months on a customers Pearson Vanguard, designed by Rhodes. Been out sailing on board twice now. That's a 32 footer by the way. The exertion to get it out, sails up, and sailing, then drop sail and bring it in and put it to bed, is about twice the effort that Tehani takes- and about twice the time too.
I've HAD a 35 footer. I don't want NUTTIN bigger than 30 foot anymore- that's all I want to maintain, that's all I want to handle. For now, we are totally content with our 25 :D
An aside to that is that my 5'2" 108 pound wife can do it ALL on this boat, from raising sail to hoisting the anchor and even to rowing out a kedge and pulling herself off a grounding. Big enough sez I
Quote from: Frank on May 15, 2009, 02:52:37 PM
NOPE. Just pointing out that they are a capable offshore boat. If you scroll back to an earlier post of mine here it hints at what others have said..."it ain't no daysailor" I totally agree with "buy the smallest boat that will work" post... ;D.
I should have left out "BIG". I was only meaning to say that I can buy a nice Alberg boat and to heck with the sailing experience.. just hide in the cabin if you stuck in a mess :)
You're probably right about buying smaller... I'm sure next March/April when I have my approval to buy I'm gonna buy the first thing I fall in love with.. which is just about any boat these days :)
Quoteauthor=mkeChris link=topic=2396.msg25335#msg25335 date=1242425503]
......You're probably right about buying smaller... I'm sure next March/April when I have my approval to buy I'm gonna buy the first thing I fall in love with.. which is just about any boat these days :)
Chris,
I would be careful, buying the wrong boat can do a lot to curb your enthusiasm.... as well as being a very expensive education*. ;)
I appreciate your posting the boats you are looking at, it is almost as much fun as looking for a boat... with none of the stress. ;D
* I once watched a guy buy a hunter... 27 I think it was. The thing was in terrible shape. He paid $3500k for a $500 boat and then sunk 4K (that I know of) into it. He had Alwgrip sprayed on an unfaired hull... and applied a couple of gallons of Gel Coat to the decks (looked like it had been applied with a leaf rake). He was ready to launch when the rudder was found to have been cracked... and the shaft was bent... Don't know what he paid for the new one from Foss Foam. I am sure he had somewhere between 8K and 10k into a poorly finished boat with 30+ year old rigging and sails. There were several of us who tried to talk him out of it... even the yard owner who he was making rich.
He would not listen to anyone.
I'd say you should get a boat you love, but get one that isn't going to break your heart. I'd recommend you read the
Boat Inspection Trip Tips (http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=1985.0) thread I started... :)
Quote from: mkeChris on May 15, 2009, 06:11:43 PMI should have left out "BIG". I was only meaning to say that I can buy a nice Alberg boat and to heck with the sailing experience.. just hide in the cabin if you stuck in a mess :)
You're probably right about buying smaller... I'm sure next March/April when I have my approval to buy I'm gonna buy the first thing I fall in love with.. which is just about any boat these days :)
Quote from: mkeChris on May 15, 2009, 06:11:43 PM
You're probably right about buying smaller... I'm sure next March/April when I have my approval to buy I'm gonna buy the first thing I fall in love with.. which is just about any boat these days :)
First off, I want to say that all of this advice is our way, certainly mine, of trying to pass along our hard earned experience your way. I hope it doesn't feel like we are trampling on your dreams. That said...
I think you should be picky as heck about your new boat. Study everything you can. Determine what is important to you. Standing headroom, enclosed head, speed, engines, aesthetics whatever. Find your perfect list of boats. If it were me I wouldn't confine my search to boats that were available in my area. I would find a way to get one of the boats on the top, or near the top, of my list.
I have found that in any "type" of boat one looks for there are certain boats that stand out from their peer group. Great designers, classics styling. Whatever it is it was a home run. In my experience it doesn't necessary cost any more to have greatness than ordinary. It may just take more effort and determination.
I think it is okay to listen to owners, but be careful as we are a proud group. I quite like it when someone rants about a boat they once owned, or better yet, a boat they never owned but love sailing. I like it when owners aren't always positive and glowing about their boats. Anytime all I hear is praise, I look for other opinions.
Good luck in your search, it is a great journey and lots of fun.
Cheers, Bill
Quote from: AdriftAtSea on May 15, 2009, 07:50:24 PM
I'd say you should get a boat you love, but get one that isn't going to break your heart. I'd recommend you read the Boat Inspection Trip Tips (http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=1985.0) thread I started... :)
I've read it a few times now. Once before I went and looked at that old Commander, and again when I went to look at a CD28 more recently. Great information!!! Thanks much!
Quote from: Bluenose on May 15, 2009, 09:58:07 PM
First off, I want to say that all of this advice is our way, certainly mine, of trying to pass along our hard earned experience your way. I hope it doesn't feel like we are trampling on your dreams. That said...
I think you should be picky as heck about your new boat.
Thanks Bill. I post questions here about the boats I'm thinking about because you guys seem to know your stuff. Between the lot of you.. you've had experience with just about any boat I've ever talked about. All the advice is very helpful. In the end, I'm incredibly picky, and notoriously stubborn when I get something in my head.
My top 5 as of right now:
1. '78 or newer CD 28 (too bad about that tiny v-berth)
2. Triton (one that's had quality maintenance or rework)
3. Alberg 35 (aft galley preferred)
4. CD 26 (mid eighties)
5. Ariel (again quality maintenance or rework)
Of these I've only inspected a CD28.. I spent a lot of time going through her and liked the boat very much. Very sturdy and simple inside. Was surprised not to find a pull out double port berth... The rest of the list I've just read about on the Internet. A nicely refitted Triton is for sale in Chicago right now.. very close to me. 12,500, but unfortunately the wife won't budge... solid as a rock that one.
You mind if I ask why you jump from 26-28 footers up to an A-35, without considering an Alberg 30?
No bias here, of course... :P
LOL...no, none whatsoever.... ;) Good question though... And considering how many A30s were made... there's usually a small selection available for sale at any given time.
Quote from: Captain Smollett on May 16, 2009, 12:20:13 AM
You mind if I ask why you jump from 26-28 footers up to an A-35, without considering an Alberg 30?
No bias here, of course... :P
Quote from: mkeChris on May 15, 2009, 11:32:53 PM
Thanks Bill. I post questions here about the boats I'm thinking about because you guys seem to know your stuff. Between the lot of you.. you've had experience with just about any boat I've ever talked about. All the advice is very helpful. In the end, I'm incredibly picky, and notoriously stubborn when I get something in my head.
Chris,
Good to hear. The only reason I brought this up, and with attitude, is that I had an experience where a bunch of us were going through this same process over on the oarclub (I think) board. There was a nice lively debate and a great deal of discussion and advice and then the person went in an entirely different direction because he "found a great deal on a cheap boat". I don't know what he ended up buying but there is one thing I have learned about boats.
They aren't cheap. Never. And the less you pay to get one the more expensive they can be in the long run.
And from your last post and your list of favorites I see a problem. Is your budget really $12000 to $13000 or did I read that wrong. If so I think it will be very, very difficult to get a well maintained 35 footer.
That said, I like your list.
Quote from: mkeChris on May 15, 2009, 11:32:53 PM
My top 5 as of right now:
1. '78 or newer CD 28 (too bad about that tiny v-berth)
2. Triton (one that's had quality maintenance or rework)
3. Alberg 35 (aft galley preferred)
4. CD 26 (mid eighties)
5. Ariel (again quality maintenance or rework)
Of these I've only inspected a CD28.. I spent a lot of time going through her and liked the boat very much. Very sturdy and simple inside. Was surprised not to find a pull out double port berth... The rest of the list I've just read about on the Internet. A nicely refitted Triton is for sale in Chicago right now.. very close to me. 12,500, but unfortunately the wife won't budge... solid as a rock that one.
I had a similar list before I went in another direction. And I quite like what I saw in the Cape Dory 26 (although I have never been aboard one). They seemed like the Cape Dory version of the Pearson Ariel. At roughly 5300 lbs with 300 to 400 square ft of sail area she would be handy and easy to sail single handed. The SA/D ratio of 16.4 with the working sails and 20.4 with the genny is a bit above average and should let you sail often (but I would still be thinking of really light air sails).
But what really set the CP 26 design apart for me was the aft engine well. Since I am not an engine person, I liked having the easy choice of no engine or a small electric in a well. For my way of thinking, an inboard diesel seems like a huge space hog in small boats.
And finally if the build quality of the 26 is anything like my friends Typhoon, then they are way above the average classic plastic build quality.
Alas, the CP 26 is quite rare.
It will be fun to follow along and see where you end up.
Cheers, Bill
That is an interesting question. I do the same thing but never really thought about why. Now you got me wondering about that. There must have been a reason originally, but I can't quite remember what it was. Without checking numbers on the two boats, I just don't think of the A30 really being significantly bigger than a Triton, In fact they seem pretty much like the same boat. Having had both a lite weight EC version and a heavyweight WC version, I can tell you I might feel a lot different if I'd never had the WC version as my major concern about a boat has always been primarily blue water capability. TJim
Quote from: TJim on May 16, 2009, 10:32:59 AM
I just don't think of the A30 really being significantly bigger than a Triton, In fact they seem pretty much like the same boat.
For quite a while, my 'ideal, dream boat' was a WC Triton. But reality set in on the four people aboard thing, and those extra two ft LOA and what, 6" or so on the beam, makes a fair difference 'comfort' wise.
I mean, you should hear the comments we get NOW, with a 30 footer. I'd probably be tarred and feathered if we were on an even SMALLER boat... ;D
(Of the liveaboards at this marina, and the percentage is high here, we have the one of the smallest boats...and the largest family/number living aboard - 2 adults, 2 children and a cat. There are two families of three, one with a dog and turtle the other with no pets; the family with the dog live on a 31 footer, so they are close to us in terms of 'space.' But...they also own a house they go to on weekends!!)
Believe me I can relate to lack of room on a Triton. I just spent the last 6 months aboard moving mine from SFran to Mexico. It's in La Paz on the hard now and I'm in Salt Lake recooperating from leg and knee surgery. But I had good crew from SDiego on down with no schedule pushing us. With 2 "Guys" aboard they just grow smaller and smaller. And it really gets old cooking 1 pot meals on a seaswing. While I know from a sea going point of view the Triton is twice the boat that a Ranger 33 is, the extra room and amenities sure do make life aboard a heck of a lot better and the Ranger isn't really short on sea keeping qualities if you compare it to most boats out there, it just isn't the same kind of boat. It ain't no Alberg and it ain't no Hess, but it sure do make living aboard one heck of a lot more comfortable and she moves pretty good. I got hot water, I got a shower, I got an electrasan, I got an oven and 2 burners. Heck I even got a flat screen TV and 6" foam wider/longer settees not to mention a real chart table that don't take on water thru the companionway hatch. Where can you put that stuff on a Triton?? Sometimes you just gotta make trade-offs. TJim
TJim
Quote from: Captain Smollett on May 16, 2009, 12:20:13 AM
You mind if I ask why you jump from 26-28 footers up to an A-35, without considering an Alberg 30?
No bias here, of course... :P
It would certainly be up there too. I chose top 5 so I had to limit myself to 5 :) Those are the boats that are in the forefront of my mind because I've gone to look at them or talked to sellers about them. The A-35 is attractive to me for the length, but I'm certain an A-30 would suit me just as well as a CD28, Triton, or any of the others. Someone had mentioned the difficulty of hoisting sails on a 35 footer and that had not occurred to me.
I'm certain that if any come up in the area that survey well, meet my expectations, and are within my price range, or close, I'll be all over it. I've seen a couple Ariels in Lake Michigan lately, but there is a seller of a CD 26 I've been talking to. Hopefully he'll still have it when the time comes. The wife seems to like that one because it's in nice aesthetic shape, is newer, and is priced fairly decent. 10 months and counting....
I've had "some" misgivings about buying my Bristol 27 this past year but only because it feels a bit cramped inside. I've been looking around at other bigger boats but I would tend to agree with the others about the expense going up with a larger boat ie; maintenance etc.
I like my Bristol but I sure would like more room. Anyone have any experience with a Columbia 34 MK II ? It has tons of space but wondering if it would be too much for me to handle singlehanded. I found one for a good price in OK shape.
Just wondering as I tend to agree with a smaller boat going the distance. I forgot to mention that I would be living aboard her for long periods of time.
Thanks,
Jerry
It's the amenities or lack thereof. That's what happened to me after 5 months of cruising and live-aboard on my Triton. Things like cooking on a seaswing which is great in the sense that it works and you can cook in any weather but one 7" pan really limits what you end up eating and it wears thin after awhile. 2 burners and an oven makes a world of difference as do things like a refrigerator, hot water heater, shower, nice chart table with chart storage that doesn't get your charts wet. 6" cushions are a real upgrade in comfort, an electrasan toilet makes life a lot easier. I just bought a 300 gal per day water maker that will basically allow me to shower all day long if I feel like it. These are a few of the things that make living aboard and cruising a heck of a lot more relaxing. A cold beer is just so much better than a warm beer. No way can a quart of water and a washcloth
compare to a shower. A cushion to sleep on that compresses down to feel like a solid board before morning just don't get it after awhile. These are the reasons I went from The best sail boat on the water (In my no so humble opinion) to an extra 5' of pure pleasure that gives away one heck of a lot of sea kindliness. I already miss sailing on my Triton but I sure don't miss the seaswing. TJ
TJim—
A 300 gallon-a-day watermaker is pretty impressive for a boat the size found on Sailfar.net. That means it can make over 12 gallons of water an hour...you'd need a pretty big genset to power that...
"an electrasan toilet makes life a lot easier. I just bought a 300 gal per day water maker that will basically allow me to shower all day long if I feel like it. These are a few of the things that make living aboard and cruising a heck of a lot more relaxing. A cold beer is just so much better than a warm beer. No way can a quart of water and a washcloth
compare to a shower."...............sounds way too complicate for this simple mind :o Give me a pump head that doesn't take power and I can fix myself (grudgingly),30 gallons in tanks and a raincatcher,my pump up garden sprayer/shower @ a qt per shower and my little engel when needed with only one solar panel. I'm with ya on the extra foam tho ;) Next Vberth mod is good quality 4inch with an additional 1 1/2 inch memory foam on top.
Quote from: Frank on June 21, 2009, 11:51:45 AM
"..............sounds way too complicate for this simple mind :o Give me a pump head that doesn't take power and I can fix myself (grudgingly),30 gallons in tanks and a raincatcher,my pump up garden sprayer/shower @ a qt per shower and my little engel when needed with only one solar panel. I'm with ya on the extra foam tho ;) Next Vberth mod is good quality 4inch with an additional 1 1/2 inch memory foam on top.
I'm with you Frank. First, there is NO WAY I'd have a shower below decks on a smaller boat- I've seen too much mold and mildew caused by them. Plus I refuse to give up the room for something used so seldom. Just like I see no need for two sinks on a small boat- the one in the galley works just fine for washing hands and we brush teeth using a cup of water, usually out on deck.
Now on the 4 inch foam, I'm in total agreement ;D But that's what we already have on Tehani.
Of course we don't, and don't plan, to live aboard Tehani full time. THAT makes a difference for sure.
I guess I'm beating a dead horse or .......
I have been looking at a Columbia 34 MK II . I agree with everything you guys say about smaller boats like my Bristol 27 but that Colmbia has so much room!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Does anyone have any particular thoughts on the C-34 MKII ?
This Columbia would be a wonderful place to call home as I plan to live aboard, but how about single hand sailing ?
The deck appears solid and the hull. I can't detect any leaks . The diesel runs great etc, however there are air ferns growing on the rigging (not kidding).
Actually don't need a genset at all and for normal living only have to run the engine about and hour an day (110 amp alternator) to keep both battery banks
and the starter battery topped off. For most purposes I only need to run the water maker a half hour a day. That's the beauty of having a 300 gpd capability.
TJ
Quote from: Gerald A. Gotts on June 21, 2009, 06:36:10 PM
This Columbia would be a wonderful place to call home as I plan to live aboard, but how about single hand sailing ?
My feeling is that in your gut you know the answer to this question.
I have always been intrigued by Bill Tripp's bubble top designs
(http://www.columbia-yachts.com/col34m2/34m2diag3.jpg)
but the Columbia 34 MkII it is twice the boat of your Bristol 27.
For me it isn't so much as whether you could single hand her, it is whether you will want to as much as you do in your smaller Bristol, which is still large to some on this forum.
As we have probably all seen, the frequency of casting off the dock lines seems inversely proportional to size.
Best of luck,
Bill
Still love the Alberg 35, at least in pictures. I've yet to climb aboard one. I've been sailing aboard a Hunter 34 this year and feel as though it's single-handable. Handling the sails is certainly not as easy as it is on an Ensign, but I can lock the wheel in place and grab the winch handle and manage a 150 and main. Granted the boat has a roller-furling main and I've sailed only in the loveliest of conditions. We're taking her across Lake Michigan and back this weekend so I may have a bit more to report on the subject after that :)
The owner of the H34 took my wife and 3 month old baby out for a daysail last weekend and it was marvelous. The wife actually said she really enjoyed it and she actually uttered the words "I want a sailboat". I believe she liked the smoother motion that the longer length provided. Prior I had only taken her out on Ensigns and Solings. She's acknowledged that a nicer, longer boat costs money and is okay with the idea. Heck YEAH! If a nice A35 pops up with some modernizations, solid hull/deck and nice sails comes on the market, I think I'd be game.
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_cQeQsTRLtIk/Sj-XvQA1v_I/AAAAAAAAB3E/AeZuyEXjJtg/s512/DSC00105.JPG)
That's an outrageously cute lap anchor you have there, mkeChris.
The A35 website (http://www.alberg35.org/) appears to be a cobweb, with no updates since 2006 including their for sale section. The boat has been reviewed by everyone, including Cruising World (http://www.cruisingworld.com/boats-and-gear/boat-reviews-and-previews/alberg-35-and-alberg-37-201030.html) and Practical Sailor (http://www.practical-sailor.com/issues/1_1/boatreview/1124-1.html). Yachtworld has asking prices from 15k-39k USD, although I'm intrigued by the Alberg 37 yawl which has noticeably higher asking prices (what's so much better about that design? There's a pretty one here in BC that's for sale, reputedly turn-key condition and a South Pacific veteran.)
Keep in mind if you're going to keep the boat on Lake Michigan you will probably want to get a cradle as well. You'd better plan on that as an element of your purchase price (or find a boat which already has one.)
According to reports...The A37 was designed as an "offshore" boat, while the A35 was a coastal cruiser in carl's mind. I feel that all of his designs were seaworthy...I guess the 37 more so
Haha "lap anchor" -- Thanks Amgine :)
I saw that A37 - what a gorgeous boat. Good Old Boat actually did a review of the A35 in the July-August issue which the wife just subscribed me to for my first Father's Day. Their conclusions are in line with what has been said here. Sturdy design, though some modifications are needed for offshore sailing. The age is of course a problem. The wife is not a fan of that "vintage smell" that I've become so accustomed to looking at these 60's era boats. I don't have the skills, time, or space for an involved refit. I could manage some interior work, but recoring decks and major fiberglass work is beyond my desires. There's a decent CD28 in the local yard that has been up for sale for awhile. Owner is asking a bit much for it IMHO, but she looks sound. Does anyone know if bowsprits are attached on top of the fiberglass or below it? I'm concerned about this area on the deck
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_cQeQsTRLtIk/Sep5gMwmJMI/AAAAAAAABrA/W6qwX5Q1RuE/s512/DSC00112.JPG)
Not that it's a huge deal, but this is for sale for over 20K and I would want something that doesn't have any deck repairs or concerns. There appears to be some separation in the caulking where the sprit is attached. There's also a small patch of "blackened" teak in the port settee hull section.
mkeChris:
The Cape Dory 28 is a rugged boat, and one that's pretty big for its size, if you know what I mean.
If you want, I can post your question about the bowsprit (actually more of an anchor platform) on the Cape Dory board (www.capedory.org (http://www.capedory.org)) or ask my friend who owns one. Either way, you can hardly go wrong with a sound Cape Dory.
Yeah, I'm prejudiced. But the 28 is a Carl Alberg design and should be able to take you where you want to go.
--Joe
I have a CD28, so I may just be qualified to answer this question! The Bowsprit is attached to the deck of the boat via 6 (If memory serves) large Flathead machine screws that go clear through the deck and pass through a mild steel assembly in the bow of the boat (it's glassed into the inside front/bow and set into a putty of sorts at the top of the anchor locker). The screws are set into the sprit and covered with large tight fitting flush plugs, there are nuts on the inside of the locker. In my experience, removal will most likely involve using an angle grinder from the inside of the anchor locker. And then a punch, and a short hammer. Much swearing and crying. I think I used a die grinder also.... I doubt removal of the sprit would be as simple as removing some plugs and grabbing a large screwdriver. The Stainless steel bolts passing through the mild steel seized very tightly on mine.
The chain plates and this assembly in the bow are made of mild steel and all is well UNLESS water gets to them... (hence the PO's attempt to seal out water) However they are fairly massive. While the bowsprit is a concern, I would be more worried about the chain plates (or chain plate reinforcements) located in either side of the head. That being said it's critical that water is kept from getting to any of these areas of mild steel.
The massive steel fitting in the bow actually seems like total overkill to me, and I wouldn't really worry about it's condition too much (i.e. worry, and check, but don't obsess). The bowsprit is relatively short and has a bob stay that should transfer the load down near the waterline. I think the first few CD28's might not have had a bowsprit (or had a shorter sprit with no bob stay) and when they added the sprit the kept the massive fitting up front. If this was the case the fitting was originally designed to distribute the load of the fore stay directly to the hull, and that would explain why it's so big and ugly.
http://www.sbastro.com/FeNIX/Projects/GeneralInteriorPics.htm
Fred has a picture of the fitting I speak of. It's the third picture from the bottom.
One last thing. Some cape dory owners say their stuff is not made of mild steel, so it seems there is some variance.
Note: in retrospect I am not totally sure my description of the bowsprit removal is accurate (It being a miserable process is accurate though) . I removed the pulpit at the same time and the jib boom pedestal. I know in several instances I had to grind the top of the bolt/screw holding the pulpit in place off. I probably did a little bit of everything.
Thanks, Necessity.
You're better qualified to respond to my favorable comments on the CD28.
Are you happy with her? (I presume you are.)
--Joe
Well I am happy with her, but I would be a whole lot happier if I could get her into the water! She's undergoing a restoration, I've never sailed her. We have a friend with a Pearson Triton and picked the CD28 based on her similarities, but alas we have never sailed her.
Thanks necessity! Great information. This CD 28 has been on the hard for 5 years so I'm not even sure a moisture meter would tell me anything as it's had so long to dry out. Perhaps a look under the decking in the chain locker would tell me if water has ever gotten through.
Thanks again!
MKE—
I'd recommend you read the boat inspection trip tips thread (http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=1985.0) I wrote.
I too have a CD28 that I've never sailed. I'm in the midst of refit and restoration. Just moved her to within a half hour of home. The last month has already been more productive than most of last summer. I concur on the bowsprit answer. If it counts from a guy who hasn't sailed her yet, I love that boat!
Have Fun,
TrT
Mke,
From what I have seen so far water gets in on it's own, but it don't get out! Just keep in mind that the mild steel is bound to have some surface rust.
After we finished fixing our decks a friend mailed me his moisture meter. I ended up having to go back and repair 5 more sections of deck. It was a struggle to tell him thanks when I returned the meter. Also there were portions of our boat that were ROCK solid to the touch, and sounded perfectly normal when listening and tapping with hard plastic hammer. However the meter said they were wet. We drilled into them and they were sopping wet, the meter did not lie. The only portions of our boat that you could tell needed fixing were the portions where the balsa had turned to a rotting black soup. The moisture meter is a worth while thing to have.
Quote from: mkeChris on May 17, 2009, 08:50:31 AM
Someone had mentioned the difficulty of hoisting sails on a 35 footer and that had not occurred to me.
There are lots of great benefits to smaller boats, but the relative difficulty of raising the main on larger boats is a red herring. A good batt car system on a 40 or 45 can lead to an easier host than a conventional slide system on a 30.
Even with some personal physical limitations I can raise the main (full battons, lots of roach) on Auspicious to within a couple feet of the masthead and winch it the rest of the way up on the fast gear of my halyard winch.
The biggest issue is pulling the sail aft on the boom and flaking it to tie it down and cover it. If I'm single-handing I often get the bit overhead at the wheel back and tied down (so it isn't hitting me in the head) and leave the rest until after the anchor is down or I'm back in the slip.
In my opinion, the best thing you can add to any boat that is sailed single- or short-handed is an autopilot. Everything else can be managed with time, practice, and experience. Oh -- and winches.
sail fast and eat well, dave
S/V Auspicious
Hey Chris-
Just wanted to throw my opinion into the mix to go with the boat soup you have created here. I personally, like most, like the looks of the Alberg designs, but thats about as far as it went for me. I respect the opinions and the tenacity alot of Alberg owners have to their boats however. I have the same outlook when it comes to my Brohall design.
That being said, the boat I used to lust after was an SC. I think double enders are works of beauty, and wouldn't care how slow it took me to get anywhere, or what the motion would do to me. I would just want a double ender.
On my short list was also my current boat. I find the more I interact with my boat the more I "love" it and it continues to move to the top of my list. At the end of the day, I'm happy with my decision. I don't have to worry about much externally (ie solid glass decks not needing re-coring, etc). I did have to make sacrifices on the small interior, and at times, she can be a bit to bring in to port after a long weekend sailing.
I guess to sum up what I'm trying to say, is don't discount some of your other "maybe" boats because of looks, or its not the "popular" flavor. Love in a boat, is like love with another person. It comes in all shapes, sizes and styles. Sometimes you never know you have that "true" love until you stop to really think about it.
I agree with Nowell (at least with what I think he's saying). There is an emotional attachment with a boat that is a keeper that transcends specifications.
There are limits of course -- I do still think about the pure joy I had in a Catalina 22 one summer, but I wouldn't head for Bermuda in it. *grin*
I love my boat. There are a very few things that are irritating and one that makes me nuts (there are an amazing number of things that have required completely emptying the HUGE cockpit locker to access, maintain, fix, or install) but I love her none the less.
See, now I disagree with this.
I am absolutely, totally, and utterly in love with the Wenda, by Albert Strange and drawn by Phil Bolger. It's a stunner - gorgeous, extremely well thought-out rig, and completely and utterly useless. Like a zillionaire's mistress, I suppose. A $150k daysailer. Probably wet as heck.
You must select a boat you can love, but just like a lover everything is a compromise. Maybe the person who has the right smile, catches your jokes, doesn't have legs up to *here* like you fantasize about. But that's okay, because xe (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/xe) has other things that trip your triggers and you love xyr (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/xyr). The same is true of boats - you don't pick a boat because of one feature you love, but rather a collection of features you need and a few you can live with, and that je ne sais quois that makes it beautiful and desirable.
I like the discussion :) I wish I would have just bought a darn boat when I started to sail. I was scared into taking years of lessons before the thought of buying one should cross my mind. When I started sailing, I was 23 years old without a care in the world. Sailing off into the blue was a completely plausible thing to do. Now, funds limited and anchors to land in abundance, I'm left to wander local boatyards and harass my wife to death about finally buying one.
My biggest problem is that I fall in love with every boat I set foot on. I sailed a ratty old Catalina 30 last year that leaked through every portlight, had sails that looked like badly-used underwear, and had the noisiest Atomic 4 I've ever heard. I pulled the main halyard to find it was coated with some nasty grease that made my hands as black as tar, but I loved sailing it. The cabin was spacious though as was the cockpit and definitely made me think a C30 would be great! And maybe it would...
I started sailing on Pearson Ensigns and they are fantastic. I love the way the boat handles, the tiller just feels easy and responsive and I love just the way it feels in the water compared to any other boat I've sailed. My idea of an A35 is that it's something like the Ensign only a whole lot longer. This gives me three things I'm after: some comfort for the family in the cockpit and below decks, some stability in heavy seas as I'm susceptible to motion sickness, and a little extra speed. The A35 could be nothing at all like the Ensign though - hence this thread.
Exactly my counter point! Great reply! I just think that all too often, (in the case of boats) people look for that one boat that can do EVERYTHING they THINK they want/need, that they sacrifice on the compromises. I guess that was the round about point I was trying to make! Like Auspicious said, sometimes the love affair you have IS because of the compromises you made even tho it didn't meet the list of what you thought you NEEDED. ;D
Might be too early in the morning for these deep thoughts, but hey, my mind tend to works overtime!
Quote from: Amgine on July 13, 2009, 11:29:08 PM
See, now I disagree with this.
I am absolutely, totally, and utterly in love with the Wenda, by Albert Strange and drawn by Phil Bolger. It's a stunner - gorgeous, extremely well thought-out rig, and a completely and utterly useless. Like a zillionaire's mistress, I suppose. A $150k daysailer. Probably wet as heck.
You must select a boat you can love, but just like a lover everything is a compromise. Maybe the person who has the right smile, catches your jokes, doesn't have legs up to *here* like your fantasize about. But that's okay, because xe (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/xe) has other things that trip your triggers and you love xyr (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/xyr). The same is true of boats - you don't pick a boat because of one feature you love, but rather a collection of features you need and a few you can live with, and that je ne sais quois that makes it beautiful and desirable.