Katie's new stove/oven arrived!
(http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=906.0;attach=1276;image)
My first impression was very favorable. The thing is heavier (38lb's), and seems to be built better than I expected. The size is also a bit larger than I anticipated, but once aboard and in use, seems to be just about perfect for a small vessel with limited space. The oven area is the reason for the size difference - the muffin pan in the pic above is obviously a large size, and I was expecting them to be using a smaller version in order to make the stove/oven look larger. That coffee pot in the picture is "CJ sized" - it must make a gallon of coffee or more... ;D
Of the three knobs, the middle one controls the oven, and the two outer knobs correspond to the burners above them. It has piezo electric ignition for both the stove and oven, and that works well (something which is not always the case, in my experience). The gas supply comes in through a tube in the upper back right corner of the unit. While the tube is sized and threaded to fit a normal LP gas line, it is placed so that it is impossible to attach a line there without some work; there is a hole in the sheet metal for tube access which is too small to allow the nut on the gas line through. However, the unit comes with a regulator designed to be used with the 1lb propane bottles that does fit through this hole. This attaches to the tube easily by hand, and then you can use an adapter hose (available from the manufacturer, but also at WalMart camping section) to hook up a supply line to that regulator. The folding top would be easily removable with a drill; it is held on to the hinges by aluminum rivets. I am not sure if I will leave it on or remove it, since it does provide a clean, flat area when closed, and will serve as a splash guard when up..
So I've used it now, though only in a very limited manner; last night, I baked a *whole* pizza (for 4 years, I have been cooking only 1/2 pizza at a time ;D), and am now sipping my second cuppa joe, made on the stovetop. Country-fried steak biscuits are on the menu for brekky. ;)
Baking, it did a good job. Oven temp got up to between 350-375 and held there well in the amount of time I used it. Cooking longer than 20-25 minutes it might go higher, and I did throttle the gas flow back a bit once it got to 350 (small ovens seem to reduce cooking temps...). Looking at the burner flame (down in the bottom of the oven, under what I am guessing is a sort of heat-diffusing plate), there is not a lot of difference in the amount of flame visible between the Low and High settings.
The stove eyes are pretty big around - perhaps 4.5" diameter. I'm used to a smaller flame diameter from my previous stove eye, on this stove it is almost as big around as the base of my small utility saucepan. This is just an observation, the size did not seem to affect how long it took to boil water this AM. Because of the larger diameter, I thought that maybe most of the heat would go up past the sides of the pan, but apparently that is not the case.
We'll see how it works out over the long haul, but right now I am optimistic that this is a great - and very affordable, comparatively - solution for cooking and baking aboard a small vessel.
Note that this stove/oven is not vented directly to the outside, so make sure you have plenty of ventilation while baking.
I gotta say that UPS did a bang-up job getting it here. Literally "bang up". There is a pretty large dent on the stoves port side, the box was open when it arrived, and whatever the impact was it was strong enough to break the styrofoam packing material inside. The dent is not too noticeable with the oven in place, and it doesn't seem to affect functioning, so I can live with it. Still, you would think a company in the business of moving things wold know how to do so...
Keep us posted on how well the new stove is working, It looks like it might be a very doable alternative to what I have aboard now.
Just make sure you used teflon tape on any connections you made... don't want to hear that you and the Katie Marie went boom one night.
Although they make a teflon tape for gas connections I believe (heavier and yellow) I suggest using a spreadable sealant (Rectorseal makes one for gas) as it won't be likely for any pieces of tape to get in the line and clog the system.
Capn K;
I've been using that same stove for two seasons on my Chrysler 26 and it has performed great (I luv baking fresh corn muffins in it). The burners heat water for making coffee fairly quickly. And I have experinced no problems what so ever in the past two seasons. Mine is mounted in the middle of my companion way so when it's warm I open the hatch and let the heat vent when it's cold I keep the hatch closed and let it warm the boat up. My gas is piped in from my propane locker with two 3lb tanks with electronic valves and meters. I bought mine at a Bass Pro shop here in Michigan. I think you will really get to like yours. (for the price)
"Doc" Bob
How much space do you need around it? Can you set it down on wood or does it have to be raised up? How big is it?
Just from memory it's about 26" wide, 24" high and 12' Deep. Mine is surrounded by a wood cabnet with wood spacers and is about 12" off the sole. I took the cover off of mine because the back of the cook top is about 2" underneath the bridge deck. I surrounded the burner area with brass sheeting to act as a flame barrier for the cabnets.
"Doc" Bob
how about some photos of installation
I think this is the same unit:
Matchless Igniter burners
Stainless steel construction
Nonstick enamel cooking surface
Oven thermometer
2 oven racks.
Powered by a disposable 1 lb propane tank - Can be adapted to use a 20lb tank
Specs: Range 5,300 BTU's per burner, Oven 3,5000 BTU's
Top burner dimensions 12 x 21
Inside Oven Dimensions 16" W x 10"L x 10" H
Outside Dimensions 13" W x 21" L x 18" H (with windscreen up).
That's it Capnk - I'd love to post pictures of the install but don't have a clue on how to go about doing it. If someone would like I could email some pics and they could post them for me.
"Doc" Bob
Good point.. :) Rectorseal makes good stuff. :)
Quote from: Tim on January 03, 2009, 03:33:17 PM
Although they make a teflon tape for gas connections I believe (heavier and yellow) I suggest using a spreadable sealant (Rectorseal makes one for gas) as it won't be likely for any pieces of tape to get in the line and clog the system.
What did you do to insulate the unit from the boat - heat- fire problem?
Right now, my 'installation' is that the stove sits on the "Thing Formerly Known As A Port Settee", ;) and as such is not worthy of a photo... Eventually it will be mounted in that general area much like any boat stove, likely somewhat insulated from surrounding ignition sources, and metal-lined surfaces next to it...
2 weeks of use, and I really like this piece of equipment. The oven gets hotter than I reported previously - I had placed the included thermometer down low before, at the bottom of the oven. Moving it up to the middle has given higher readings. Cooking last night it got up in the 450* range. Plenty hot.
Because I've found that 1 lb of fuel lasts so much longer than I thought it would, I am thinking I might not plumb it into a large tank of fuel, and instead use a refill adapter on the large tank, and 1 lb bottles on the stove. It would be a much simpler setup, and allow things like setting the stove out in the cockpit for cooking during hot months, if desired. There are +'s and -'s to doing it either way, I am still thinkin' on it, but at the current time not plumbing it in seems like it might be a better method for me...
2 thumbs up for this thing. :)
The 1 lb. tanks are probably more prone to leaking than the big tank though... so out of safety, it might make more sense to plumb it to the big tank.
Quikee update:
So now it's seen 8-9 months of use, not daily, but at the least, several times per week, stovetop and baking... In this time, I have used about 1 20# tank of propane.
This little stove/oven continues to work just fine. I did have a problem with the oven gas control knob/regulator. After about 6 months, I noticed it getting difficult to ignite and turn; a couple or three weeks later it failed outright, and I then demolished it ;D trying to fix it. I also managed to damage one of the stove control knob/regulators... ::) while attempting my 'fix'.
So I called the US distributor
(using the ph # at the Camp Chef website), and the lady I spoke with was absolutely great. Under the 1 Year Warranty, she sent me new control/regulators
(1 each of stove and oven, since they are different in design and function), for no charge at all, not even for shipping, and fast - less than 5 days from the west coast to the east. GREAT service!
A few screws later, I was back in happy stove/oven land... I do think I would get a couple spares of these knobs to have on hand for a long distance journey. They are not easily repairable, but neither are they too expensive, I don't think
(I am not sure what the standalone price is).
Anyway, after much use, I am still giving Camp Chef and their $200 Stove/Oven - (http://sailfar.net/forum/Themes/classic/images/post/thumbup.gif)(http://sailfar.net/forum/Themes/classic/images/post/thumbup.gif).
:)
Quote
Some additional further consideration after all these months, that are specific to my boat and situation, and are not to be considered a drawback or to take away from the functionality of the camp Chef Stove/Oven:
Even with the relatively small size of the unit, the fact that there is a stove on top of an oven makes fitting this into a small boat interior difficult, at least when you are demanding as much from the interior as I am (looking for the best of all possible cabin worlds, so to speak ;) ). The height of the stove makes it a bit close to the underside of the sidedecks on Katie to push it flush against the hull, while keeping it out away from the hull leaves a large waste-space behind the unit. If I were to gimbal it, then that space would be needed, but I have a small 1 burner gimballed stove for that purpose.
So I am considering a separate stove and oven, making my own oven. Doing that, I could tuck the oven part up under the side deck, and have the stove top out in the open where it needs to be. I have an old toaster oven that I may cannibalize for a try at this...
CapnK,
I am within a few weeks of purchasing one of these (they are on at Costco for $169) and was wondering how yours is holding up?
Kurt, et al, are you still using the 1lb. bottle to operate the stove off of or did you eventually plumb her to a 20 pounder? I kind of like the idea of having a stove and oven on board. Like it will somehow make me a better cook or my attempts taste better. ::)
If you did switch to a 20 pound bottle where the heck did you find room for one? Deck box? Push pit? Sink a holder in the bow like the HR 29s have???
Capt. Tony, what I am doing (unfortunately I am about 1000 miles away from the boat now so this web pic will have to suffice) is putting this kind of locker in my motor well lazz. along with a solenoid back to the galley. It all fits snugly.
(http://www.suremarineservice.com/images/products/display/93268.jpg)
De we actually have that much room in our lazarette? Wait a minute, are you leaving the motor out?
Do you have that locker 'in hand' (when you're not 1000 miles away) allready? Where did you come across that beauty? Might have to get some dimensions... ???
Greenman - It held up fine for over a years worth of regular use, and is still working. As of now, I've stopped using it, though ONLY because of space considerations. I just couldn't allocate even that (little) much room to a stove/oven, what with my interior...
Capt Tony - I ran it mostly off of a 20# tank with a long hose, left the tank sitting out in the cockpit. I haven't jumped the propane stowage shark just yet, but am leaning towards 2 smaller bottles (10# Lite Cylinders) (http://www.litecylinder.com/static/assets/products/product/full_spec_pdf/10_lb_spec.pdf) - the narrow & tallish ones - likely stowed standing against the (eventual) stern rail. 20#'s of propane lasts me the better part of, if not a whole year.
I should probably clean up my stove/oven and put it on sellFar so someone else can try it out at a steep discount. :)
Quote from: CapnK on July 10, 2010, 11:31:21 AM
20#'s of propane lasts me the better part of, if not a whole year.
That does not surprise me at all.
Just to throw some more numbers out for those planning propane systems, we have a 10 lb bottle and it lasts 3-4 months with regular (daily) use for cooking and heating water for clean-up. That's for four people (bigger meals, more dishes, etc).
Some of the boats come into this marina with enough propane on board to last years...plural. Amazing.
Capn K my stove is on it's 3rd season and working great!!!!! I don't cook on it as much as the last two seasons as I bought a new (read large) four burner grill for use when I'm at my dock (we own our slip here in AuGres, MI) but still use it for cooking breakfast and when it's too cool or raining. I use two squat 3lb cyl. stored in a converted lazzarette in the cockpit.
Since the good Captain started this thread, the original link has gone dead. I could not recall which
stove we were discussing here so I found one (http://www.amazon.com/Camp-Chef-Camping-Outdoor-Burner/dp/B0013LLSZG).
Here is a picture;
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41smM9vPU0L._SS400_.jpg)
Regarding the size: If I could shave about 6" out of the middle (making the oven space 'shorter', so that overall it wasn't quite so tall), I'd still be using it. It works great.
Quote from: Capt. Tony on July 10, 2010, 11:08:51 AM
Do we actually have that much room in our lazarette? Wait a minute, are you leaving the motor out?
Do you have that locker 'in hand' (when you're not 1000 miles away) allready? Where did you come across that beauty? Might have to get some dimensions... ???
Although not permanently affixed (I am still cleaning up and setting mounting bolts) I do have the box and have fitted it on the port side of the motor well. I will have a motor with tankage starboard. I was able to buy my locker without tank and solenoid directly from Seaward saving myself some bucks, but it appears that they only offer it all together now at around $400 :o
I am rebuilding the lazz and sealing it off with a thru hull drain for the locker, it is all a very tight fit but doable.
http://www.seawardproducts.com/
Tim that is a sweet little unit. Too bad they didn't offer it with the composite tank for the same, or reduced price. Hey, dream big right?
Kurt, does that mean you are not going to work the CC into your interior or just not at this time? I vasilate back and forth on this topic (too). Jim Baldwin has such a nice, simple, compact stove. A dutch oven makes it an oven simple as that. But a stove and an oven? Man, oh man, I could learn to cook...
Tony, I am still a bit up in the air on this, but don't think I have the room to properly mount the CC stove/oven, and so would need both it *and* a smaller gimballed stove for use in a seaway. That means instead of having 1 object doing 2 functions, I have to have 2 objects doing only 1 function, and there isn't room aboard for that, no matter how nice the hardware... :-\
Jim Baldwin's Atom Stoves are great, no doubt, and I love the innovation/inspiration he brought to them. I have one of the little Forespar propane swing stoves, but would much prefer an Atom Stove, or a Sea Swing like CJ&L and others here have. The Forespar can only use its own, or other, very small pots - about 6" diameter.
Ooo! You fell for the Forespar marketing department too huh? I gotta say, it looked bigger in the catalog and the on-line photos.
Ah, I remember it well. It was like Christmas morning when the package arrived that day. After I unboxed it, I started to realize there aint much you can do with them little pots and pans. Even the coffee perkolator is a might bit small for filling a thermos. That's when I started looking more seriously at Jim's cookers. There is a lot one can do with a 10" frying pan. Everything from cooking your dinner to defending your ground. So I don't know, maybe it's an unknown fear of the 'complexity of kerosene' that keeps me from pulling the trigger on one. Or maybe I just want an oven that looks like an oven. Odd when you considers the potential of blowing up the boat just for a pan of muffins!
I'm gonna mock one out of cardboard and see if it can work here. With gimbal!
I found one of these at a local camping store and got it. Since then at least 4 other people in our marina have got one and I have found out of other sailors that have tried them with favorable results. I have had mine for two years now. It is not hard to gimble them using pop rivets. I still haven't figured a way to put sea rails on yet the though.
We don't use one on our boat, BUT we do use one camping. The quality and service of Camp Chef is min my opinion EXCELLENT. We bought ours on line on Ebay. It came without a regulator which the seller didn't/wouldn't supply. I called Camp Chef and they sent me one for FREE - just can't beat that!!!
Quote from: CapnK on July 10, 2010, 12:14:10 PM
Regarding the size: If I could shave about 6" out of the middle (making the oven space 'shorter', so that overall it wasn't quite so tall), I'd still be using it. It works great.
I have been trying to find every reasonable place to mount a Camp Chef in our boat. I started at the companion way worked up one side to the main bulkhead, across and back down the other side and I have come to the same conclusion, Capn.. I found a Taylors 029 which has the "perfect" dimensions (it does burn Kerosine though) but can't find a distributor in the U.S.A. or Canada that stocks them. I wonder just how difficult it
would be to cut 6" out of the oven? ???
Saw this deal on a "used" 029 recently:
http://victoria.en.craigslist.ca/boa/2913647574.html
Surprisingly, these guys are the US distributors for Taylors:
http://www.sbimailservice.com/
At first glance $800 seems high, but if James Baldwin is in the neighborhood of $500, it seems fair. I'll grant you they are more expensive than my Forespar get up but oh so elegant and not even really comparable. We're not going to rule it out based on cost alone.
Well, if you buy direct from Taylors, you'll find that $800 is a great deal for an 029. Not sure what they go for in the US, but check on the Euro price in Germany:
http://www.toplicht.de/en/shop/ofen-herd-und-kocher/herd-und-kocher-/petroleumkocher-und-herde-taylors-etc./taylors-petroleumherd-029-mit-grillroehre
I don't really think it's fair to compare to James' stove on price, what with that being a minimalist 1 burner setup, and the Taylors being 2 burners, oven, a large tank, pressure pump, heavily built, etc. I posted the Taylors ad, because I thought someone here might want to hop on that price...if a Taylors was the match for them.
Marujo,
That is indeed a great deal for the Taylors. While I find the Atom stove very elgant and pure in design I am really attracted to the Taylors (as in saying good bye to $800). I had thought the 029 was the ideal galley stove, but, after contacting the owner I found out the oven is only considered a "warming oven" and not exactly what I was looking for. What a bummer...well, at least I didn't pay $2700 plus for one...
Even if I decided to bite the bullet for the Taylors 030, which has a burner fired oven, I'd be back to the same dimensions as the Camp Chef which is much more of a stumbling block than the price. I fully realize there is a significant difference in engineering and build quality between the Camp Chef and Taylors. And the difference in fuels makes a difference in saftey measures, access and storage, and, cooking, to some extent. I guess the search continues. :-\
It seems the dimensions, etc. and space for proper insulation on a small boat are tough for full-on ovens. I have a propane two-burner stove with oven by P.E. Luke in my boat and was disappointed the first time I fired it up and found it maxed out at about 350 F. Maybe during a heat wave I could get it up to 400 F :-\. Not sure how warm the 029 gets.
Since I've thought about it more, I think that many (but not all) of the recipes I'd want to cook would be possible in this oven, with some adaptation. If you end up ovenless, remember that many cruisers successfully bake bread in pressure cookers. Maybe a folding solar oven to use on deck could be an option, too. You could probably make your own cheaply.
we baked bread, biscuits, cakes, potatoes (sweet and regular) and canned meats in a pressure cooker, on a single burner kerosene stove. Works just fine.
Quote from: marujo_sortudo on April 22, 2012, 10:33:43 AM
I have a propane two-burner stove with oven by P.E. Luke in my boat and was disappointed the first time I fired it up and found it maxed out at about 350 F. Maybe during a heat wave I could get it up to 400 F :-\. Not sure how warm the 029 gets.
That would be frustrating.
From the Taylors website it sounds like the warming oven can reach 300 degrees. Not really warm enough to bake much but it can keep something warm while the rest of the meal is cooking (now there's a news flash). Being it is a two burner stove, one burner can heat the pressure cooker "oven" while the other tends to another pot or pan. I'll have to check the dimension of my pressure cooker. if it is less than 12" in diameter it should be fine. If not...does anyone know of a 3/4 sized, quality pressure cooker?
From the TSBB (Sailboat Owners.com) chandlery-
http://shop.trailersailor.com/prod.php?50511/Fagor%20Splendid%20Pressure%20Cookers
also, from the same place-
http://shop.trailersailor.com/prod.php?50510/Fagor%20Duo%20Pressure%20Cookers
Hello All,
This is my first post. I wanted to add to the discussion by saying I am a live aboard and have used the camp chef aboard for over three years now. It works very well. At about a yr I had to replace the thermocoupling. I think it cost about 10 or 15 dollars. The outer casing gets hot to the touch when using the oven so I have an asbestos lining in the one place whre the case touches wood. The burners on stove top and oven adjust from high to low with no in between. This has not been a problem but I wish the high was a little higher on the stove top. I didn't gimbal it but it would be easy enough to do. For a couple hundred bucks it has been one of the best "live aboard upgrades" I have made. The boat had an electric/alch origo stove top before. I love this site, Sail on, Wade
Hello All,
This is my first post. I wanted to add to the discussion by saying I am a live aboard and have used the camp chef aboard for over three years now. It works very well. At about a yr I had to replace the thermocoupling. I think it cost about 10 or 15 dollars. The outer casing gets hot to the touch when using the oven so I have an asbestos lining in the one place where the case touches wood. The burners on stove top and oven adjust from high to low with no in between. This has not been a problem but I wish the high was a little higher on the stove top. I've had the oven over 450f. I didn't gimbal it but it would be easy enough to do. For a couple hundred bucks it has been one of the best "live aboard upgrades" I have made. The boat had an electric/alcohol Origo stove top before. I love this site, Sail on, Wade
Hello Sailfarers,
I need to add a note about the Camp Chef. Well, not really the oven. This is a cautionary tale. I recently returned home to Tennessee after a 3 week stint on Lake Michigan. When I got on board I was relieved to find everything in seemingly good order. All was well until later in the day I decided to cook something. I turned on the propane. My tanks are outside and went inside and turned on a burner. The flame didn't look right. It was a little red and tall, it looked as though the tank was about to run out. Here is where I screwed up. I went ahead and left the burner on thinking maybe I can finish before the tank runs out. So I did a thing or 2 in the galley then decided I didn't like the look of the flame and would go ahead and check the tank. Only 2 or 3 minutes had elapsed, As turned for the companionway I was engulfed in a small but terrifying explosion. The stove was lifted out of it's hole, my right side was rendered hairless, and anything plastic nearby was partiailly melted. I ran out,turned off the tank, and went through the galley and below decks no flames or real damage, So So lucky. It was late and I was freaked out. My right leg was showing signs of a partial thickness 2nd degree burn, no problem- I'm a paramedic. I wrapped the leg with rags soaked with vinegar and it blistered and oozed and had a nasty looking mess but it has healed well.
Any way, the problem was not the stove. In fact even after the accident it is fine. This is what happened, when installing I think Campchef recommended an in line gas filter, or I read about that some where, so I got one and installed it and as I mentioned in my previous post the stove has been great. Well, the filter is made with two halves pressed together and that is where my leak was found. All my connections were good but the factory pressed seal had completely failed, the gas had filled a cabinet space beneath the stove, it is isolated from the bilge, and the rest is my sad story. No I didn't have a sniffer. I do now. Everything else is done as it should have been. This is what I think happened. The boat was closed up and it has been real hot here. Some days 100+. I think it may have gotten so hot in the closed boat that the glue or sealant in the seam of the filter failed? I guess they must use something. I learned a lesson. Set it up right but make sure you have that sniffer. I tell my kid all the time that you can do everything right and it can still go to heck in a second. This could have been bad, luck saved me and my boat. A 30 dollar detector and I would have avoided all this. I am sticking with propane but if you use it make sure you do it right. There is ample info out there on how. Sorry this was so long, Sail Far, Wade
Wow, Wade, glad to hear both the boat and you are all right.
Though I presently have it (previous owner install), I hate the idea of propane on board. Other fuels just seem to provide a wider safety margin. To me, the crux is that being heavier than air, any leak inside the boat is going to accumulate inside the boat.
My goal is to move to kerosene for cooking and heating fuel. Maybe still not "safe" on some scales, but safer.
I'm just so glad your story, your cautionary tale, did not end with hospitalization or worse. Have a grog for the 'settle down' period ...
Cap,
I had alcohol on another boat. Lived on her for a year and grew weary of filling the pans and running out in the middle of a meal. We had kerosene on our houseboat when I was a kid but don't really remember much about it. I don't like the risk of propane either. But when your not blowing up it is awful convenient. Wade
been using a single burner kero stove since about 1978. If I could easily replace it, I'd use one on Necessity too. Lately been using a Butane stove
Here's the Sea Cook that was propane that I converted to kero. By the way, I've used 100% Mineral Spirits in the kero stoves for 30 years now.
(http://sailfar.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10069/tilted-stove-2.jpg)