Fire Extinguishers--where do you put 'em?

[Oldrig]

Hi folks:

Here's a simple question, which I'll probably post on some other boards as well:

What's the best place to mount fire extinguishers?

Right now my boat has only one extinguisher, and it's mounted on the bulkhead in the head compartment (which would be the V-berth in almost any boat except my 25D).

It was put there by the previous owner, or even, perhaps, by the original owner. While it meets safety requirements, it seems to me that it's the worst possible location if the thing ever has to be used.

I was thinking I might move it into the main cabin, perhaps near the galley space.

And, I was thinking I might want to have another mounted inside one of the cockpit lockers.

Any suggestions?

Counting the days 'til the snow is gone and I start working on the boat!

--Joe

[skylark]

Skylark has one in the head and one near the companionway. 

Put one where you can reach it from outside the cabin.

[CharlieJ]

we currently have two extinguishers. One is on the side of the quarter berth, just across from the galley and easily reachable from the settee.

The other is in the starboard cockpit locker right in the front inside corner.

I'm seriously considering adding a third.

I feel like the extinquishers should be reachable as you are exiting the cabin and somewhat away from likely sources of fire- In other words, you really don't want to reach across the stove or a gas tank to get to one. I also really want one inside and one outside so I don't have to go either in or out from where I am to get to one.

[Godot]

Best location?  I don't know.

Thinking about my boat, I figure the most likely place for a fire to start would be the galley (along the starboard side).  To that end, I have a fire extinguisher on either side, one next to the companionway, and the other in the head compartment.  As a bonus, this basically spreads them out evenly across the boat (although, in fairness it is a small boat) and puts them next to the two possible egresses.  I figured that having two fire extinguishers set up this way means that it is pretty much impossible to be more than a step away from any, and no matter how the fire starts I have a good chance of getting one without getting burned.  I think if I had to choose only one location I would put it next to the companionway so I could get to it from the cockpit without having to transit the whole cabin which could be on fire.

In the cockpit I can't really think of a great place to put an extinguisher unless I was willing to leave it in the open (and thus subject to the ravages of mother nature, and in a good place to stub a toe and bust an ankle).  Inside the cockpit locker doesn't seem to make a whole ton of sense in my case.  The gas tank is under one locker, while the other is near the engine.  If I had a gasoline or engine fire, I think it would be safer to grab the extinguisher from next to the companionway.

Of course, if I stretch my imagination a bit I can find a reason to put one in the locker (what if the entire cabin is ablaze and I don't want to add oxygen by opening a hatch?); it just seems like it would be less likely to be useful there compared to the other two.  But then, fire extinguishers aren't all that expensive and it couldn't hurt to have a third.  Fires are no fun.

[AdriftAtSea]

I have one mounted forward in the cabin, on the compression post for the mast.  I also have one outside, just on the side of the companionway.  I plan on getting two more.  One will be on the inside of the companionway, next to the nav console.  The other will probably be in a cockpit locker.

It is important to have them where you can get them and use them in case of a fire.  Mine are positioned relative to the most likely areas of fire threat.  The galley, the outboard motor and the electrical panel.  The one up front, by the compression post, is so that I have one if the stove has a fire and I need to use it to get out of the cabin. 

Get ABC rated fire extinguishers, rather than just the USCG required BC ones... the price difference isn't much and they're far more useful.

[oded kishony]

Interesting topic. I keep a box of baking soda in the galley, which is used for cleaning, by the alcohol stove. The baking soda could be used to put out a small alcohol fire.
What do folks do with expired fire extinguishers? Is there some way to recharge/recertify them?

Oded Kishony

[AdriftAtSea]

Unfortunately, I don't believe there is a way to re-charge or recycle non-refillable fire extinguishers. What I've been doing is turning them in to my local fire equipment dealer, since he'll give me a credit towards new ones on them. 

It is rather sad that the re-chargeable/refillable ones aren't really priced competitvely.  Given that the fire extinguisher is one of those pieces of gear you hope you'll never need to use, having to get disposable ones is a bit of a shame.

I am going to be getting a small 6' x 6' fire blanket for use in the galley. Baking soda is pretty good for grease and alcohol fires IIRC, so having it in the galley isn't a bad thing at all, and it is probably far less nasty to clean up than the powder in the drychem extinguishers.

[Pixie Dust]

I have one mounted on my companion way door, easy access to galley, engine room and cockpit. 
The previous owners also have one mounted on the bulkhead in the v-berth and I have not moved it.   Easy to reach... boat is small :) I guess it would be good if the mattress foam caught fire for some strange reason, however, I have read that if foam catches fire, get off the boat due to fumes can take you out very quickly. 

[oded kishony]

>Baking soda is pretty good for grease and alcohol fires IIRC, so having it in the >galley isn't a bad thing at all, and it is probably far less nasty to clean up than the >powder in the drychem extinguishers.

It's also a very good all purpose, environmentally friendly cleaner. I seem to recall that alcohol fires don't respond well to extinguishers. Don't certain extinguishers simply spread an alcohol fire?

Yes, I think a fire blanket is a great idea, it can be used for other purposes as well.

Oded

[AdriftAtSea]

The problem with alcohol fires is that the burning alcohol can float on top of water, if you try to use water to extinguish one, it can sometimes just cause the fire to pour down behind whatever the fire was on to begin with... with the flames still burning.. leading to a rude surprise in a short while.

[Captain Smollett]

The problem with alcohol fires is that the burning alcohol can float on top of water,

Alcohol does not float on top of water.  Alcohol, both methanol and ethanol (and propanol, for that matter) are SOLUBLE in water.

What you are thinking of is hydrocarbons (like in gasoline, kerosene or diesel) that are less dense than water.  These 'float.' 

Alcohol mixes.  It can splash when sprayed with water, but it does not float on top.

[AdriftAtSea]

Capn Smollett-

I am fully aware that alcohols are water soluble, and have a very strong affinity for water in fact.  However, there have been many reports of alcohol fires that were "put out" using water only to have a fire start in bilge locker, because the fire was not put out but displaced by the use of insufficient water.  See the book "Seaworthy" to hear about cases exactly as I've described. 

While "float" may be the wrong term, it really is the best description, as the fire will flow, with the water and then end up elsewhere on the boat, often burning unseen, until it is too late.  Alcohol fires aren't safe to put out with water, because if you don't dilute the alcohol enough, it continues to burn. 

From the MSDS for ethanol:

Extinguishing Media:  For small fires, use dry chemical, carbon dioxide, water spray or alcohol-resistant foam. For large fires, use water spray, fog, or alcohol-resistant foam. Use water spray to cool fire-exposed containers. Water may be ineffective. Do NOT use straight streams of water.

Whether you want to argue semantics of the exact proper terminology to use or not is your problem, but I seem to recall someone, apparently a hypocritical **$%#, posting a complaint about this type of behavior not too long ago.  You can nitpick about my terminology, but the fact remains that what I was posting is a valid concern regardless of my "improper" use of the word float. 

The point I am trying to make is that Baking soda or other media are far safer ways of extinguishing an alcohol fire, when compared to using water.

[CapnK]

How about we just say it this way:

"If there is an alchohol fire, it is best to use an inert-gas or powder-type extinguisher."

Then we can get back to talking about botes and such.

;D ;D ;D

[AdriftAtSea]

Works for me...

One thing that I really don't like about alcohol fires is how difficult the flames are to see with most of them.  I've seen people get burned by an alcohol fire in a chemistry lab back in college, because they didn't realize it was there until it was too late.    In sunlight, the flames are pretty near invisible... mostly seen as a heat shimmer, having very little color to them. 

[oded kishony]

Has anyone ever tried adding something to the alcohol to give it more umph.
Just to speculate how about a bit (2-5%) kero or turp or maybe even gasoline....or is this just too dangerous?

~OK

[CharlieJ]

Don't even THINK about it, particularly gasoline.

Turpentine and kerosene have much different burn rates- they'd probably clog the stove. Gasoline would be very dangerous.

[AdriftAtSea]

That strikes me as being very dangerous. 

[Auspicious]

Fire extinguishers: one in v-berth, one under salon table (next to galley), one in aft cabin. Adding an automatic one in the engine room and a "floater" in the cockpit locker.

[Fortis]

Dry chem extinguishers are very reasonably priced in Australia and I think are subsidised in various boater saftey prgrams (they are actually cheaper to buy from chandlers then supermarkets...which is where the one for our kitchen at home came from).

though it seems overkill, When outfitting an Endeavour I tend to go with three. One medium sized one mounted at the side of the companionway stepps so that it can be equally reached form inside or outside the boat, one small unit mounted on the ceiling just next to the forward hatch, so again it can be reached from either inside the boat or from the foredeck by reaching in through the hatch. A third small extinguisher is built into the aft locker in the cockpit. This is the overkill extinguisher, but realistically, it is the one closest to hand of the helmsman, the closest to hand for someone jumping onto the boat (if moored stern to) and the utterly best and easiest to grab unit to throw over to someone else in need or to grab prior to jumping over and putting out someone else's boat. The smaller units are less then half the capacity of the one mounted in the companionway...but will definately let you fight your way through to grab that one.
Having one at each end and at the middle works really well as you will never be cut off in case of sudden flare up. They take up virtually no space and cost less then $30AUD per unit, for three years (new models are rated for four years). That ammoratises very well indeed, thank you!


Alex.


P.S one of the other nice things about the small extinguisher in the aft locker is that if you actually grab it form the back deck and fire it into the back locker, you will be in a position to spary down the back of the engine and the flexible fuel bladder. If someone else then wants to grab the big unit in the companionway, they at least will not get scorched when they lift the companionway so they can zap the motor compartment from the front!

With firefighting in confined spaces, one of the scariest things is when you need to open a door or flip up a hatch and the sudden rush of air means the fire goes from smoulder and growl to whoosh and bang in zero seconds flat. Being able to access the most likely source of boat threatening fire from a different direction before needing to air it is kind of reassuring.

[AdriftAtSea]

Alex-

For fighting fires in the engine compartment, I would recommend you install a fire port, which is a small diameter opening that you can stick the nozzle of a fire extinguisher through to discharge it into the engine compartment.  However, you do need to get a gaseous fire extinguisher to use a fire port, as the dry chemical ones are not recommended unless you can aim them at the base of the fire.  The use of a fire port eliminates the need to open the engine compartment and the possible risk of flashover inside the cabin of the boat.



Dan