Deck Hardware; Cleats, chocks, rollers, etc.

[AdriftAtSea]

I really couldn't mount the chocks on the rail, since the deck edge and rail are molded and not flat, and would have made the mounting a nightmare.  If I had mounted the chocks any further outboard than their current position, I would have been in the position of trying to put a backing plate over the transition from cored to uncored fiberglass under the deck... and that was a bit more of a pain than I wanted to deal with.  The chocks are there to help limit the movement of the dock/anchor lines, and to keep them leading fair to the cleats.  The rub strake was a necessity, since the deck has a slightly raised molding at the edge of the deck.  I actually have a snubber that I use when I'm anchored in shallow enough water to have only chain out, rather than chain and nylon, since the rode is a combination of 5/16" G4 chain and 5/8" nylon.

As for cleats, I went up to the two 10" cleats you see in the photo.  The stock ground tackle consists of bow chocks, you can see the original port-side chock in the photo, forward of the ones I installed, and a single 6" cleat.  The guys at the factory were laughing about how overkill my ground tackle setup was... which means that it is about right.

The chafe protectors I use on the dock and anchor lines are woven chafe guards, that seem to work very nicely.

Dan,

  I remember when you posted that picture, I intended to ask you what your thinking was behind adding the chocks.

  I see that you would have a fair lead off of the chocks in any direction I would expect the lines to run.  If the chocks were on the rail you might prevent chafe as the line moved back and forth, but to my eye they do not seem to do that where they are (although they do cut the arc down, by moving the pivot point.... it could be that might serve to concentrate the chafe to a smaller part of the line.... ?  Don't know what a storm would do till it's over (although less of a concern for a trailered boat).

  I do like your addition of the stainless 'rub strake' over the toe rail, I thought of doing that, but decided to wait to see if chafe was an issue on the toe rail (it has not been so for me so far).

[CharlieJ]

Those that laugh about over sized cleats, and over sized anchors DON"T go out there and anchor when storms just might come a-calling.

I prefer to have HEAVY stuff, so I can sleep at night. When a thunderstorm happens ( at 2 Am as always) I can raise up, check my position and go back to sleep. Well, maybe not back to sleep, but with no fire drill of trying to get a bigger anchor down- it's already there.

[s/v Faith]

Dan,

  That makes sense.  I was not thinking about the limited space you had under the installation.  Sounds like it works out well for your boat.

Charlie,

  Amen.

[AdriftAtSea]

Charlie-

When I was first laying out the new ground tackle setup, I didn't take the underside into account initially, and had to go back to the drawing board when I took a look under the foredeck.

[CharlieJ]

lol- yeah- that happens. I really don't understand why builders don't at least give the OPTION of real cleats and backing. But I suppose I know the answer. MOST boats sit in the slip most of their life, and go out on a sail on a sunny, nice day, then come back in.  Overall, there aren't THAT many (proportionally) of us who actually GO places in our smaller boats and really need the security of substantial gear.

So we do what we can. Which is one of the HUGE values of sites like SailFar- we can compare notes and learn from each other, cause I ain't gonna live long enough to make ALL the mistakes on my own ;D

[Captain Smollett]

Hijack:

I cannot believe anyone, ANYONE, that works with/on boats would say cleats are oversized.  Good grief, that's just nuts.

The rule I use is that if it looks too big at the dock, it MIGHT be big enough at sea.

I once got criticized for the ground tackle I carry on my little boat.  The critic:  an America's Cup veteran with 1000's of sea miles under his keel.  And I was told by a third party that he once owned an Alberg 30, but I don't know if that's true.

Anyway, when I told him I carried an 8 lb anchor, 15 ft of chain and 150 ft of nylon as my primary, he laughed and said "boy, where you planning to anchor?"  I answered, "Whereever."  Incidentally, when CapnK first saw my ground tackle on this boat, he commented that the chain was bigger than he carries on his Ariel.   ;D

Sorry for the hijack, but I'll never understand the "that's too big" mentality for deck hardware or ground tackle.  Or just about anything else aboard a true working boat, for that matter.  Maybe marina queens don't want all that metal in the way?

[TJim]

 Don"t ya know.....All that "stuff" on the bow will hang your spinnaker up...Can't have that....

[Tim]

Don"t ya know.....All that "stuff" on the bow will hang your spinnaker up...Can't have that....

Don't worry Jim I'm keeping that in mind ;D

Everything will be lowprofile. I put a Sampson Post on the Potter, but not the Ariel.

[Cmdr Pete]

Here's a question....

Assuming you dont have a bow roller, you need to run the anchor line through either the port or starboard bow chock.

After you've finished anchoring, the boat seems to lie-to favoring one side or the other (often not the side you ran the rode through).

Any way to predict in advance what side you should run the rode through as you come into the wind to drop the anchor?

Does this make any sense?

[Bill NH]

Here's a question....

Assuming you dont have a bow roller, you need to run the anchor line through either the port or starboard bow chock.

After you've finished anchoring, the boat seems to lie-to favoring one side or the other (often not the side you ran the rode through).

Any way to predict in advance what side you should run the rode through as you come into the wind to drop the anchor?

In the mid-latitudes of the northern hemisphere, when a cold front comes through the wind will veer (shift clockwise).  The largest anchor is traditionally on the starboard side for this reason.  If you're lying to two anchors when a front passes, the shift will have you hanging on your starboard hook until you can adjust (by paying out more rode on that side, etc).  Best to have this be your biggest anchor.  [That's where the name for the highest card in the game euchre comes from, the "right bower".  The second highest card is the "left bower"...]

If you're only using one anchor it doesn't really matter unless you're in a current or waves that are not from the same direction as the wind - in that case the situation will dictate which side is preferable to lead your rode from, as your bow will point slightly to the opposite side from the rode...

[skylark]

Charlie, how did you attach the wood base anchor roller to your deck? Is it bedded down in something? Glued? Caulked? Are you happy with that setup?  No concerns about side to side forces on the wood?

[CapnK]

Here's a question....
<snip>
After you've finished anchoring, the boat seems to lie-to favoring one side or the other (often not the side you ran the rode through).
<snip>

C'Pete - When that happens with me, I let out some extra rode, re-snub it where it was originally, then haul in the extra rode on the other side, snubbing it there so the boat lies better. If things change, it's just a matter of releasing that side to get back to the other, original side. Maybe that'll help you out. :)

Bill - good answer - Grog! :)

[CharlieJ]

Skylark- here's a side view that barely shows the bolts.

It's bedded in 4200, with four bolts (2 circled on the near side)that hold the lower platform to the deck. That platform is 5/4 mahogany. The nose part (circled up front) is fitted into and under the bronze bow fitting.


The anchor roller platform is also through bolted through the deck and bedded in 4200 with four bolts (near side ones circled). It's doubled 5/4 mahogany, so that part is right at 2 inches thick. Of course all the bolts have either backing plates or fender washers where backing plates wouldn't fit.

The side rails that contain the anchor are through bolted with 6 bolts- one further aft and one each side of the roller shaft which is 5/8 inch stainless. The little aluminum pieces you can see are retainers for the shaft.

We've anchored a bunch of nights with it, and kedged off of groundings several times, with no movement that I can see. When Laura grounded on her cruise, she kedged off and put so much pressure on it that it distorted the roller to where it wouldn't roll. I had to replace it. But the platform sat still, I have had to tighten the bolts that hold the side rails on once, but that's all.

By the way- since this pic was taken permanent chafing gear has been installed on the dock lines, instead of the duct tape you can see in this pic. That was temporary ::)

[skylark]

Here is a view of my bow.  Notice that there is a hatch that opens up and uses up a lot of room on the foredeck and makes it difficult to install a bow roller.  If I did the wooden base bow roller, I would have to put the base under the bow pulpit stanchions and chocks and reinstall with longer bolts.  Which would not necessarily be bad because all the through bolts would hold the wood down well.

The problem is that when stored the anchor would be in the way of opening the anchor locker hatch.  Even mooring lines are in the way of the hatch.  I am almost ready to glue and screw the hatch shut and just use a hawse pipe, and install the ground tackle on top of the hatch.  As is it is very difficult to hoist and store my 35lb CQR. But I hate to start hacking on the boat.

[CapnK]

Paul - It's an oddball idea, but what about an under-deck horizontal hawsepipe (or two) with roller assembly running out from that anchor locker to a point just over your hull/deck join?

Open the hatch to let out rode, etc...

Probably not a good idea for various reasons, but I thought I'd toss it out there. :)  ;D

I've seen Moody sailboats that have a recessed anchor area there, basically what you would have without the hatch. As long as you had good scuppers, and a hawsepipe to below for rode stowage, it'd work well, and help keep any bottom that came up with the anchor from running back down your side decks. You could probably manage to make it to where the hatch could be put back on, if you ever sold the boat.

[AdriftAtSea]

Paul-

That hatch really makes any modification to the bow ground tackle tough, doesn't it. How much room is in front of the edge of that locker??? Even if there is enough room there to mount a bow roller, I would be a bit hesistant to mount one, as that hatch makes me wonder if it would be strong enough to support the stresses a bow roller sees, since the back edge of the mounting area would be relatively unsupported, since the hatch is right there. I suppose you could glass over the hatch or part of the hatch area, but that would be a fairly major modification.

[Fortis]

Just a gentle reminder that the best cleats, chocks and other mooring gear is all only as useful as the backing plates and hardware that holds it down.
I say this as someone that just made a quote for fixing the damage of someone pulling a huge bow cleat straight through their deck!

It was a foam-cored deck (I can hear some of you saying "ah ha" as to the likely cause already) so the reapir is gong to be fairly ugly and unpleasent in terms of what needs doing and the wallet shock it will generate.

Bonus points for recognising the make of boat that runs its original wiring loom to the nav lights THROUGH the foam core and then glasses them in!!!!!




Alex.

[s/v Faith]

Alex,

 

Just a gentle reminder that the best cleats, chocks and other mooring gear is all only as useful as the backing plates and hardware that holds it down.
I say this as someone that just made a quote for fixing the damage of someone pulling a huge bow cleat straight through their deck!

  Good point.  We had a thread on backing plates that I have merged into this one.  No  discussion of deck hardware is complete without a consideration as to the proper backing of whatever is installed.

  (might now be worth while going back and reading this thread from the beginning)


I also came across this article on prepairing a boat for a hurricane written by Bruce Bingham....

Also consider the adequacy of your boat's deck cleats. When preparing for a hurricane, only one line should be secured to each cleat. Every dock line or line end should have a dedicated cleat, and considering that every dock line should be doubled up to ride out a hurricane, plan on adding cleats to your boat early in the season.

  Many studies show that the most frequent failure results from the chafing of line at the rail chock. Even with plenty of the proper chafing gear, the sharp turn of line through a chock causes rapid line disintegration when sawed back and forth under load. BoatU.S. recommends mounting cleats directly onto the rail or in- stalling genoa-track cleats to eliminate chock chafe.

[Tim]

So I have my new 10" Bluewater Herreshoff SS Cleats which I am going to mount on the bow, like as is on Faith. Since they are four hole with about two inches between holes, I am going to use the SS 1/8 " strap between holes, with the epoxy covered ply in between approx. 4x6".


I am also putting chocks in the stern, but was thinking of going with just the SS strap for backing those.

Whaddyall think?
Tim

[AdriftAtSea]

Tim-

Those look just like the 10" cleats I put on my boat last year. :)  I'd back the chocks with both if you can, since there'll be a lot of load on the chocks when anchored out.