U.S. Documented vessel discussion

[AdriftAtSea]

I meant to type ABROAD.  A USCG Documented boat is recognized as a USA flagged vessel.  A state registered boat is not.  A USCG Documented vessel does have some legal rights and protections granted to it as a US-flagged vessel, like getting assistance from the US consulate/embassy.

There are quite a few advantages to being USCG documented. 

The first is that you are recognized as a USA-flagged vessel when abroad.  This gives you some legal rights and protections that state-registered vessels do not have, since states are not recognized as sovereign nations.  Your boat is effectively US soil when aboard.

Not sure if you meant "aboard" or typoed "abroad"....the former I do not know about (it's a purely US thing), but the latter is not strictly true (with possible exceptions in certain countries / US dependent territories).....but no point commenting at the moment  :)

[Shipscarver]

I am buying a boat from a guy who says he mailed in the documentation renewal (late) about 2 weeks ago. Anyone know how long it takes to get the paper back?

[AdriftAtSea]

It only takes about a week to get the renewal back, but if he was late by two weeks, chances are pretty good that the USCG let the documentation lapse and it has to be re-applied for.

However, the old USCG documentation should give you enough information to complete the sale, as any liens on the boat should be registered against it.  I would add a line to the bill of sale or sales contract stating that the boat is being sold clear of any and all liens or claims against it—just to CYA about any possible existing liens or debts he may owe.  If he isn't willing to sign a sales contract with such a line in it...I'd walk away from the sale.

[liberty28]

Call...

Debbie Moore
Documentation Officer 1-B
National Vessel Documentation Center
1-800-799-8362

and ask.

[Shipscarver]

Thank you.  I did get things cleared up. They are very helpful.
Amazing - a government agency/person who really wanted to help.

[Auspicious]

Craig's reference is entirely correct.

A couple of points -

The statement buried in the referenced thread that a US-flag boat is sovereign territory is not strictly true. You can be boarded by local law enforcement and are subject to local law (unlike the sovereign territory of a US Embassy for example).

The biggest issue is that (aside from the Bahamas that are used to FL state-registered boats) most countries are simply not prepared to deal with a state registration document. You'll be pretty unhappy with the extra time taken and the extra attention you receive. As more countries move to completely automated C&I systems the lengthy registration numbers some states use may not fit in the space provided in the C&I officer's computer application. A junior official is going to need more senior help to deal with that.

[AdriftAtSea]

I'd add that in many countries, a state-registered boat will have to check-in with customs multiple times and pay the required fees repeatedly.... which doesn't happen with a USCG documented boat.

[Auspicious]

I'd add that in many countries, a state-registered boat will have to check-in with customs multiple times and pay the required fees repeatedly.... which doesn't happen with a USCG documented boat.

Can you provide a source for that? I've never heard it before.

[CharlieJ]

Nor have I. Our boat isn't large enough to measure at five net tons, and I'd bet the Ariel's aren't either. No way we can document.

But I've never heard of any country charging multiple entries for state registration.

[Tim]

Nor have I. Our boat isn't large enough to measure at five net tons, and I'd bet the Ariel's aren't either. No way we can document.

But I've never heard of any country charging multiple entries for state registration.

Charlie a number of Ariels have been documented. I can no longer find the USCG interactive page that did the calcs, I do remember that I could make them work. It may have to do with being able to measure depth including keel because it is integrated.

Here is the link to the form

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/docs/CG-5397.pdf

[s/v Faith]

The 5-ton requirement refers to "gross tons" of cargo space, not displacement.....
--Joe

  This is correct.  The Ariel / Commander is large enough, as are many of the other boats here.

The Displacement is the 'ad-measurement' formula displacement.  It is like cargo volume, if you could carry cargo loaded up to the very top of the deck... much greater number then the actual displacement.

[Auspicious]

Dan's comment on draft in this thread doesn't make any sense to me either - I'm open to information but in my experience the design draft has little to do with the maximum cargo draft (my words for clarity) that relates to net tonnage.

[s/v Faith]

Dan's comment on draft in this thread doesn't make any sense to me either - I'm open to information but in my experience the design draft has little to do with the maximum cargo draft (my words for clarity) that relates to net tonnage.

Dave,

  Don't know which comment you are refering to, but it is neither the draft, or cargo draft... it is the measurement of how much cargo it WOULD hold if you filled it up to the gunnels...

  Take a look at the PDF form Tim posted a couple of posts back.  It should clear it up for you.

[AdriftAtSea]

This has happened to several cruisers I've met and spoken with personally. 

I'd add that in many countries, a state-registered boat will have to check-in with customs multiple times and pay the required fees repeatedly.... which doesn't happen with a USCG documented boat.

Can you provide a source for that? I've never heard it before.

[Lynx]

Flickas can no longer be documented/ The ones that are are based on the older reg's.

[Auspicious]

Dan's comment on draft in this thread doesn't make any sense to me either - I'm open to information but in my experience the design draft has little to do with the maximum cargo draft (my words for clarity) that relates to net tonnage.

Dave,

  Don't know which comment you are refering to, but it is neither the draft, or cargo draft... it is the measurement of how much cargo it WOULD hold if you filled it up to the gunnels...

  Take a look at the PDF form Tim posted a couple of posts back.  It should clear it up for you.

Thanks Craig, but I'm clear on what net tonnage means! *grin* I was trying to clarify the matter without any success. My feeble attempt at a point was that the design draft mentioned isn't relevant to the calculation of net tonnage. In fact, the calculation used for small recreational boats is a simplified approximation based on empirical parameters to reduce the complexity of the documentation process.

Given a small boat (less than the documentation requirement) and a desire to travel outside the US beyond the Bahamas I think I would pursue NVDC for an exception. The effort might be fruitless but I think it is worth a try - can't hurt and might help. My experience with the good USCG folks in West Virginia has always been positive.

[Tim]

I suspect the way the Ariel makes the tonnage rule is by measuring the depth in this manner

[s/v Faith]

I suspect the way the Ariel makes the tonnage rule is by measuring the depth in this manner

Yup.

  That is exactly what the form says you should do.

[Tim]

I suspect the way the Ariel makes the tonnage rule is by measuring the depth in this manner

Yup.

  That is exactly what the form says you should do.

But it is close  ;)

[newt]

I have heard that the Contessa 26 has also been documented. Is that only under the old rules? BTW- I just got the Documentation papers back on my Valiant- Yeah! I'm legal!!!