Anchor locker, rode and tackle stowage

[Pixie Dust]

I was in St. Augustine last week while in my travels and routed myself to Sailors Exchange, a consignment shop for us boat people.  What a fun place to explore in.  I bought a Bow Roller to mount a second anchor on PD.  I am taking it down this weekend to see if it will fit her pulpit, if not, I may mount off the side of the bow. 
I also purchased off Ebay this week a used Delta 22# anchor to use as my primary and will use the Bruce 16# as the secondary or stern anchor.  I still have my 35# claw to use in hurricanes or "I wish I weren't here right now blows".   ::)  (dirty word).
I have 3- 30' pieces of chain to use as needed on anchors of choice.
I also have a very small danforth with 15' of chain.  I have never used it yet.
I think I have the anchor situation covered now... of course the waterline on my wee vessel might have to be raised.    :D

[Fortis]

Fortis was designed with the danforth anchor in mind, so the forward locker and such are all about a flat-pack anchor.

Fortunately this is adequate most of the time (we went up a size (biggest that fits the locker) and I welded on some re-enforcement strips that also help it position first time, every time. Then I got it re-galved). We run only 30 feet of chain, but it is much heavier then schedule and has a loop at the rode end, this acts as a secondary drop weight and helps keep the chain laying flat along the bottom. The locker holds a mere 40 meters of rode. This is our everyday coastal and bay setup.

It is relatively light, given the locker is just below deck and thus a goodly way above the waterline.

For serious stuff we have a number 3 SARCA that lives down below. The Sarca is an amazing anchor and I only wish it took up less room. If I ever feel the need to hang an anchor off the bow for instant use, it will be the SARCA. In the front of our bilge, just behind the foot of the compression post is an elevated bit of netting on which rests 25 meters of goodly chain in a net bag I sewed for it. I can have it out of the bilges (where its weight is doing us some good) and up on deck without banging into the varnished niceness belowdecks (originally we just had the chain sitting in a coil down in the bilge. The one time I needed to grab it in a hurry, flopping bits of it tried to eat my galley bench and companionway steps, so I made a bag with handles and zip and little clips that mean the bag can stay clipped to the lifelines while the chain is deployed.)

We also have one of those three pronged folding anchors that lives in the aft-decl locker. Never seen daylight in earnest.
The time that we want to anchor fore and aft, we swap the sarca onto the bow and use the danforth off the back. Just takes a little planning in advance.

When we go off shore, all chain and anchors (apart form the SARCA, which doesn't fit) get reloacated to the bilge and onto their clips. I am a big fan of transfering the weight down low...and it is not like I am going to be able to reach bottom with all my rodes and chain tied end to end anyway. Basically, at that point the anchors all just become things that can dislodge, move around and cause problems at 4am by bashing the hull.


The conversion of the boat form coastal to offshore mode is usually achieved by spending half an hour hove-to...which is good practice anyway.
Only needed to do it once on ours so far, but there will be many more. Have done the same off-shore mode shift on numerous other endeavours and have found it very worthwhile.

The thing with a small boat for oceon cruising is that you can do it, but it is more involved and labour intensive to optimise.

Alex.

[AdriftAtSea]

On the Pretty Gee, I have two anchors.  The secondary is a 13 lb.  Danforth that was the stock anchor for the boat from the manufacturer.  It is on six feet of chain and 100' for 1/2" three-strand nylon.  The primary anchor is a 33 lb. Rocna, which has 30' of 5/16 G4 high-test chain and 280' of 5/8" three-strand nylon.  I'm thinking of replacing the 13 lb. Danforth with a larger one, or adding a larger one to the boat. 

The 13 lb. Danforth is normally in a cockpit locker, and often used as a stern anchor.  I also use it as a "lunch hook" but prefer the heavier Rocna if I'm out overnight.

I'm in the middle of adding a ground tackle system, including a manual windlass, a chain pipe, and bow roller.  It is beginning to look like I may need to re-build the anchor locker, as the current one is probably not deep enough to work properly with the chain pipe.

[Captain Smollett]

I've got an 8 lb Danforth with 15 ft of 1/4" chain and 150 ft of 7/16" nylon rode as my number #1 anchor.  I've kept it just about everywhere from on the st'bd settee to under the V-berth to in the cockpit.

I like the forward storage of the anchor on my boat, because it DOES seem to help fore-aft trim a bit.  But, I also like the 'anchor from the cockpit' strategy while singlehanding or shorthanded.  Here's the strategy I am looking at, with MANY thanks to Charles B. on TSBB (this technique is just cool no matter how you slice it):

A fixed line is attached to bow cleat, run outside all rigging to cockpit.  This line is routhly one boat length, and for purpose of convenience, Charles calls it an "anchor painter."  It stays rigged all the time.

When anchoring, the anchor rode (anchor stored in cockpit) is bent to the 'painter' and the anchor is dropped overboard.  A snatch block bent to a "stern line" is attached to the rode as well.  This 'stern line' is roughly two boat lengths long.

As the boat drifts down onto the anshor rode, the strain is taken on the painter (for anchoring from the bow) or the stern line (if for some reason you want to anchor stern-to ).  Essentially, the painter - stern line combo forms a kind of "Pardey Bridle."

The beauty is that you not only anchor from the cockpit, but weigh from the cockpit as well.  If you sail/motor to "up and down", you can use the stern line to haul in on the rode and weigh the anchor directly into the cockpit.  No going forward for anchoring or weighing.

I realize this is a small boat technique and many with boats over about 20 feet would not want to keep anchor, chain and rode in the cockpit.  I should point out that Charles sails a Windrose 18, so our boats have similar LOA's.  But, the cockpit stored anchor and stern-line arrangement has another advantage as well.

I have been for quite a while contemplating using my anchor, chain and rode as a drag in 'rough' conditions.  I was leery of doing that, though, because I have not read of anyone trying it; I therefore was wondering if there was not NEGATIVE about doing it.  BUT, Charles does exactly that.  With the cockpit stored anchor and the 'painter'-stern-line bridle system, he can use his anchor-chain-rode as a drag (for example, from the stern with the stern-line cleated at both quarters).  If he needs the drag off the bow, let the painter take the strain, or as a bridle with painter-stern line combo taking the strain.

If he is shoaling waters and the anchor digs, well, he just adjusts the bridle set-up for the best ride until the blow blows out, weighs and sails on.  No fuss, no muss.

In my opinion, this has so much to recommend it that I have been doing a lot of thinking about pros-cons and how-tos for a larger boat (with heavier ground tackle).

I won't mention my #2 anchor set-up at this time, since it is so weak as to be nearly worthless.  That's on the list to beef up.

[AdriftAtSea]

The only problem I can see with the idea of using a cockpit-located anchor as a drogue and having it dig in, in shoal waters, is the shock loading that would occur.  It is more than likely to rip the cleats from the boat, unless they are far better secured than most docking cleats.   Just my $0.02 on it.   

I have a Jordan Series Drogue for that purpose instead.  Due to its design, it creates much lower shock loads than a sea anchor or parachute type anchor would.

[Captain Smollett]

The only problem I can see with the idea of using a cockpit-located anchor as a drogue and having it dig in, in shoal waters, is the shock loading that would occur.  It is more than likely to rip the cleats from the boat, unless they are far better secured than most docking cleats. 

If I"m not mistaken, with the drags out, boatspeed is only 2-3 kts.  That might be a little faster than the snubbing loads those cleats take while docking, but the rode is nylon and will stretch some, too.  Charles has been using this technique for decades, and he has not reported pulling out his cleats (he sails his Windrose offshore out of Miami).

[AdriftAtSea]

Good to know. :)

[Norm]

What is the fascination with having all that heavy anchoring gear way up in the bows?  Weight there really slows the boat by increasing the pitching moment.

Having a suitable anchor ready on the foredeck is prudent.  The storm anchors, etc. can easily live in lockers which are nearer the middle of the boat and as low as possible.  That doesn't make them inaccessible but does make them "out of the way."

Also... imagine the panic if either rode becomes fouled and you have to scurry below, up into the forepeak, and disentangle a rat's nest of rode... while anchoring.  Compared to taking a neat coil from a lazarette, the anchor rode locker in the peak is the complicated solution.  It is best kept simple, clean, and clear.

In the 60s my family cruised the Bahamas.  We were amazed to watch the fishermen anchor.  The hook was lashed to the stern with the rode leading forward, outboard of everything.  The boat would glide around the anchorage looking for the right spot.  When found, the skipper would toss the anchor over the side as the boy forward payed out some scope.  The momentum of the fishing sloop helped set the anchor and turn the sloop into the wind.  Compared to our operation involving  three or four people, the Bahama method was pretty simple.  I have used it when single handing on deliveries.  Works like a charm

Best, Norman

[AdriftAtSea]

I'll have to try the fisherman technique with my boat.  I'll probably have to modify it a bit to deal with the three hulls though. 

I don't keep much in the forward anchor locker, other than the anchor and rode.  One of the anchors is stored below or in the cockpit, and the primary is the only one kept forward.  Unfortunately, storage is a huge problem on a trimaran, especially a smaller one like mine.

[CapnK]

I've got the same giganticus anchor rode locker up in the bow that Craig has, and feel the same way about weight up and forward as Norm does. I'll be converting most of that space under the deck for use as other stowage.

I've seen in several books, including I think Casey's "This Old Boat", the suggestion to have a large diameter pipe leading belowdecks down into as low a space as possible, to serve as a conduit into the rode storage. That's all good (and I plan to use it), just so long as the opening in the deck is large enough to help keep the rode from snarling up. My old boat came from the manufacturer with a relatively tiny opening in the deck, and it caused trouble more than a time or two before I fixed it. Something to keep in mind. :)

Personally I like to have the rode up on deck, flaked out and ready for proper running, prior to dropping the hook. Short of trying to anchor in a running, bouncy sea big enough to flop the rode around and entangle it (a problem which I've thankfuly yet to deal with), it works really well. I use 30' of chain on the anchor end, and nylon from there back to the boat. Usually I lead the chain over by hand (to protect the deck/hull), but I've had instances where it was just too 'busy' to do that. The 'rode led aft' plan would be a good tactic in those conditions I bet, and sounds like a good technique to develop as a skill... People who have to do something every day usually come up with the best way to do it, right? :)

For other than my primary, I keep rode in a small soft duffel bag made of water-resistant, coated nylon material. The top of the duffel is zippered, which allows a big opening for quick deployment, and disentanglement if needed. The handles make it easy to move around the boat.

Dan - I think that probably just about everyone here is "storage challenged", you are not alone... ;D

[AdriftAtSea]

Dan - I think that probably just about everyone here is "storage challenged", you are not alone... ;D

This is true... but I don't have a deep bilge to keep stuff in either.. :D  My bilge is about 2 inches deep at the deepest point. 

[CapnK]

This is true... but I don't have a deep bilge to keep stuff in either.. :D  My bilge is about 2 inches deep at the deepest point. 

Sounds like good storage for a couple of fishin' rods...  ;D

[s/v Faith]

As part of the foredeck project I have revisited the anchor locker.

  I have to work out where the locker will be before I install the new anchor rode fitting.  What I have settled on is an additional bulkhead, 15" ahead of the one already in place.

  The original anchor rode storage locker on an Ariel is large enough for a small boy to sleep in.  What it lacks with out an enclosed head, is a place to put wet foul weather gear.  In talking to a friend of mine who has cruised for years on an older Primrose designed boat, he said many times that his greatest regret with that boat was the lack of a place to hang wet foul wx gear.

  My experiences have borne this out.. sleeping below on a small boat with your wet foul weather gear is particularly distasteful.....  :P

  The anchor locker drains to the bilge....  8)

I will have space for 4 hooks, or even a rod to hang hangers on... and it will drain to the bilge .....   at least it will after I move it to the new locker that is as far from the companionway as it can be...  ::)


But after I get it there, it can dry without dripping all over everything...

  That is the theory anyway...  ;D

[s/v Faith]

8 Plait.

  I have this big ole 200' piece of 5/8" line.  I carry it around in a garbage bag in my truck.  I use it where ever the hurricanes are coming to.

  If they are headed to NC, I use it to put out my storm anchor (I take the boat fwd, nearly out of it's slip and use the anchor to hold the bow to the entrance of the marina).

  If they are headed to FL, I carry it down with me to pull trees down with my truck.  ;D

  Anyways, I was looking at my anchor locker mod, and thinking about what I was loosing.  I never intend to keep the monster rode in my bow, but would like to if I could.

  I helped install a new rode of 8 plait on a friends Tiara, I was really impressed with the way 200' of it laid down in the locker (if anyone here has not seen it, it must be seen to be believed.  This stuff just collapses into the smallest space.... does not snag, or tangle).

  Took us a while to figure out the chain to anchor splice.... but printed out an example off of the internet and figured it out.  I know this rode is normally used with some windlasses, but wondered if anyone was using it for the space saving advantage?

[Auspicious]

I can't say I'd be excited about dragging wet foul weather great through the cabin and over the v-berth to stow it. It probably won't be dry by the time you need it again, so you have to drag wet gear back across the v-berth and through the cabin. Not so good.

Admittedly, I couldn't find a plan for the Ariel so maybe I'm missing something. I did find this picture: http://www.mindspring.com/~edfoster/interior.jpg . How about some hooks on the edge of the counter to port of the steps? Handy to the companionway at least.

For the anchor locker might a horizontal seperator work? A chain pipe could lead your rode to the lowest furthest aft bit and the shelf above would give you a place to put your 8-plait and probably other things as well.

I have 50m of 8-plait in a 15 l (about 4 gal) bucket for my stern anchor. It works great, leads and stows nicely and is easy to store in a cockpit locker. I also had 200' of 8-plait on my boat before last that ran over a horizontal windless and loaded well into the anchor locker. I think its good stuff.

[CapnK]

Craig -

Connie has some of that 8 plait onboard, it does work well and stow small. Impressive enough that I will probably be using it eventually for 2 long rodes.

I'm going with horizontal separation in the chain locker. My thinkin's at the current time:

Split the space into 2 horizontal areas, further splitting each of those areas into 2 more.

About 3/4's of the upper section will seal off to be watertight, and will be stowage for light, not-frequently used items of some sort - like maybe the dinghy sail, spare micro-balloons, glass cloth, spare pillow, etc... The other 1/4 will serve as a deep socket for the end of long items which I will have stowed up against the bottom of the foredeck - like fishing rods, dinghy oars and mast sections, maybe a spare piece of wood or two, perhaps some legs for the boat.

The lower part of the locker will also be separate from the cabin, accessible but usually sealed. The floor will be glassed over w/foam in it, with a couple of padeyes inserted to attach the bitter end of anchor rodes. It will be divided vertically into 2 sections, each lead to deck by a chainpipe. These 2 primary rodes will be combos of chain and 8 plait.

It would be ideal to have a hatch up there which opened into a shallow well like I have seen on some boats, but making it so would just be too much work...

[Captain Smollett]

Craig,

I seem to remember reading something about Manson Supreme anchors having a slight issue with some bow roller configurations (due to the roll bar).

How has your Supreme worked out with your new bow roller?   I'll be building a custom bow roller for the A-30.  Are there any catches you can identify if building for the Supreme?

Can you make any further comments (beyond what you've posted in the past) about the performance of the Supreme?

I'm looking into getting a plow style anchor.  I'd like to get a plow to act as my "primary," but have not decided on a regular plow or the Supreme.

Also, considering there will be times when this is the only 'big' anchor I have on board, would you think I really need a 35 lb Supreme, or could we get away with the 25 pounder?  I know bigger is generally better, anchor-wise, but 35 lb plus 60+ ft of chain without a windlass is a pretty good workout.  Thoughts?

Thanks.

[AdriftAtSea]

CS-

I'd go with the 35 lb. anchor, preferably a next-gen anchor like a Rocna, Manson Supreme, Buegel or Spade.

I don't think there's that much of an issue with the roll bar, unless you have something higher than the bow roller to either side or are using a "platform" type roller, where the anchor nests in the bottom of a platform or wide bow sprit.  I have a 15 kg Rocna as my primary, and it fits on a standard pivoting bow roller. 

The only real drawback I've found with the Rocna is the amount of the bottom that it brings up when I haul it.  I will probably need to install a washdown pump, since it usually brings up about 25 lbs. of mud and sand.  The Manson Supreme, which is a copy of the Rocna AFAIK, is going to have similar issues. :D

I hope this helps.

Dan

[s/v Faith]

Craig,

I seem to remember reading something about Manson Supreme anchors having a slight issue with some bow roller configurations (due to the roll bar).

  This is mostly bogus marketing.  The shank is a bit 'taller' then some other anchors, but it fits through my roller 'bail' just fine.  If you look at most roller installations you will see the majority of folks remove the bail anyway.

How has your Supreme worked out with your new bow roller?   I'll be building a custom bow roller for the A-30.  Are there any catches you can identify if building for the Supreme?

Can you make any further comments (beyond what you've posted in the past) about the performance of the Supreme?

  Any anchor will need some amount of 'underhang' under the roller to properly stow.  For my 25# supreme on my boat that was less then 4".  I would recommend going with the largest roller channel you can see on the bow.  My URM-4 is a great big piece of stainless, and gives me lots of surface area to through bolt, as well as a good size platform for the shank of the anchor to rest on.

 

I'm looking into getting a plow style anchor.  I'd like to get a plow to act as my "primary," but have not decided on a regular plow or the Supreme.

  I had a 25# genuine CQR that was to be my bower.  The thing has a great name, and millions of nights of good sleep to it's credit.  I personally think it receives poor treatment in anchor tests because it should be lowered, not thrown (an anchor should never be thrown).  Many many people have found different results then the paid testers.

  Having said that, I found the CQR to be a PITA to handle.  Probably not so bad on the roller, but I consistently pinched my fingers in the hinge, and handling that thing on the deck of a small boat was like wrestling a gorilla.  Somewow the 25#s felt more like 50 to me.  That was the main reason I looked at something else.

  I looked at the Bruce, another similar new generation anchor, and the  Manson Supreme.  The Bruce has a great reputation also, but you can't buy an original forged one unless you find a good one used.  The new cast ones are known to be brittle.... and rumored to not set as well.  The other new generation anchor was twice the price of the Manson when I priced it, and no better in terms of build quality or features.  They each argue that the other is a copy, and frankly I find the marketing of the 'R' to be obnoxious.  I probably would not buy it now even if the price were the same.... just because I don't want to feel like a sheep lead by crafty magazine write ups... (but it is probably just as good of an anchor).

 

Also, considering there will be times when this is the only 'big' anchor I have on board, would you think I really need a 35 lb Supreme, or could we get away with the 25 pounder?  I know bigger is generally better, anchor-wise, but 35 lb plus 60+ ft of chain without a windlass is a pretty good workout.  Thoughts?

  I would definitely go with the 30# or 35# anchor on your boat.  I believe the sizing charts are pretty accurate, and don't feel the need to 'upsize' but certainly would not want to go smaller.

  FWIW, I also feel like no anchor will do all things well.  I have an oversized fortress and if I could stow it I would probably have a bulwagga also.

[Frank]

I'll stay totally 'out' of the what anchor to get talk.....but I will add...get THEE biggest you can handle of which ever you decide on. While anchored in a tight spot or crowded anchorage with a 25+ knot blow...you WILL be glad ya did. On your 30fter, I'd want minimum 35lb for cruising. Your best cruising memories will be nice nights at anchor....as well as your absolute worst !!!