Composting heads; Airhead, Nature's way.....

[LooseMoose]

We used to have a Lavac and it is far and above the best marine head made...PERIOD. But it is not frugal on the water front if using with a holding tanks so if planning a system that does not allow for pumping overboard when needful (and legal of course) you will either need a BIG holding tank or plan in a lot of visits to pumpout stations.

Bob

http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
http://fishingundersail.blogspot.com/
http://islandgourmand.blogspot.com/

[s/v Faith]

It arrived within a couple days, well packaged.

Box looked like it would not fit on the boat;




The head it's self was a tight fit through the companion way;



Another shot... getting it in.



I really like the hardware.  Looks stout and well made.





We tried a couple of alternative placement locations...





THey had drawbacks....

So we set it in place, and covered it up with all the gear adrift we could scrounge up to see if it looked at home.




Issues;

The base fits on the pad that Pearson put there. The problem is the OEM head is 13" high, and the Natures way is 20". My feet don't touch the ground.

I can either drop the floor, or raise the rest of the platform.

Sure don't want to rip out that floor to find that if I go an inch or 2 lower I loose the width....

Anyone have any suggestions here?

Also have to widen the v-berth bunk slightly to allow for the vent hose discharge... not a big deal.

  Other then this, I am pretty happy.  It was nice to remove all the old head parts!

[Oldrig]

After last summer's discussion, I went so far as to measure the available space on my 25D against a template from the AirHead and Nature's Way composting heads.

Unfortunately, both units are much higher than my original head unit. In addition, the Cape Dory builders made a triangular platform that doesn't allow quite enough room for either unit.

I've been trying to be water-frugal with my current, holding tank-based system by flushing solids into the holding tank with fresh water and relying on a Gatorade bottle for liquid waste. This system works well enough when I'm the only person aboard, but doesn't work at all when my wife condescends to spend time on the boat.

Also, since Buzzards Bay is a no-discharge zone, I could be in deep doo-doo (pun intended ;D) if anybody ever caught me emptying my Gatorade bottle over the side. (Of course almost every workboat and small fishing skiff on the bay also seems to have a Gatorade bottle stowed under the helm seat . . .)

I'm still mulling over the possibility of somehow building out the platform where my existing head is located -- but my technical skills aren't that great. And, while my yard would be happy to do it for me, I don't think my unemployment checks or freelance-writing fees could cover the $86/hour fees.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

--Joe

[AdriftAtSea]

Oldrig?

If you need a hand, let me know. :)

[Oldrig]

Thanks Dan.

It's still too cold to even think about getting under that shrinkwrap right now!

Stay warm,

--Joe

[tomwatt]

Haiden, Massachusetts (and Buzzard's Bay) has "zones" desigating how much and what kind of discharge can occur at what distance from shore. Direct discharge into Buzzard's Bay would cause a real stink (pun intended). IIRC, there is a zone designation for when you can dispose of the liquid waste, and one further offshore for more solid effluent.
Mass Gubmint. Your friend in every part of your life.

[AdriftAtSea]

Tom?

Buzzards Bay is a NO DISCHARGE ZONE.  Any black water discharge, including pee from a Gatorade bottle is illegal.  Discharge of any head or holding tank system, for either solid or liquid is illegal until you are out past the THREE MILE LIMIT.

Haiden, Massachusetts (and Buzzard's Bay) has "zones" desigating how much and what kind of discharge can occur at what distance from shore. Direct discharge into Buzzard's Bay would cause a real stink (pun intended). IIRC, there is a zone designation for when you can dispose of the liquid waste, and one further offshore for more solid effluent.
Mass Gubmint. Your friend in every part of your life.

[Oldrig]

Dan's correct. In fact, most of the Massachusetts coastline, and all of Rhode Island's, have been designated No Discharge Zones.

You can still discharge urine directly into the water, but that raises a number of other problems, particularly in heavy weather.

I brought up the subject because urine separation is one of the essential ingredients of a successful composting head. Keeping liquid waste out of the holding tank also makes conventional systems last longer between pumpouts (my tank is about 10 gallons), and reduces odors as well.

As somebody who has sailed on Buzzards Bay for more than 50 years (I started as a kid), and who has watched that body of water deteriorate over time, I try to be conscientious and law-abiding. That means when day-sailing I take my Gatorade bottle off the boat and dispose of its contents at home; if I'm on a longer trip, and I'm stopping at a marina, I can also do the right thing. Other circumstances raise different problems.

And this issue is one of the concerns I have about installing a composting head: You've got to dispose of the liquid waste long before the solids have turned into garden mulch.

--Joe

[Oldrig]

Is there much checking going on around your areas in the states.

Not really. That's why I mentioned that you'll usually find a Gatorade bottle under the helm seat of almost any outboard skiff in the area.

There are places where your holding tank setup will be inspected, though. I keep my overboard discharge seacock sealed according to specs.

In Lake Tashmoo on Martha's Vineyard, for example, they check to make sure that your overboard discharge is sealed according to USCG standards. I'm told they do the same in Rhode Island waters. I've never heard of anybody getting busted for dumping out a bottle of pee, but the potential for a heavy fine is always there.

Places like Tashmoo are almost totally enclosed, have lots of visiting boaters (and a free pumpout boat on call during the high season), and would certainly hit you hard if you added nitrogen to the water.

But I agree with you that it isn't the occasional sailor who is responsible for degradation of coastal waters. Industry, agriculture, suburban development and the proliferation of powerboats all stand higher in the hierarchy of polluters than cruising sailors.

And some places seem to harass liveaboards almost as a matter of principle--unless they're at a marina.

--Joe

[tomwatt]

OK, I'm going to have to explain that my post was a little muddled. I knew what I was trying to say and I know BB is a complete no-discharge zone... Mass. waters in general have designated zones, depending on distance offshore, indicating how much "more" can be discharged.
I was tryin' to 'splain it for Haiden and made myself pretty unclear. It's marked on the charts though. Pretty hard to miss.

[Oldrig]

no, I'm serious Officer it's just Gatorade here taste it....
I think I'll stick with the old bucket when I'm doing there.

Haidan,

You've got a good point there. Perhaps an opaque laundry detergent jug would be more appropriate. ;D

--Joe

[s/v Faith]

There is a new kid on the 'composting head' market...

Seen elsewhere;

There has been a recent discussion on the Forum about my product, the C-Head portable composting toilet. Both the system and the product are unique. I would be glad to explain how the system works and answer any question about it's application. You can view the C-Head and get information at www.c-head.com.

[Oldrig]

This is very interesting ... and much less expensive.

It also looks like a system that one could build easily.

No fans, no ventilation system, and a smaller footprint.

My question would be: Does it really work? Is it odorless?

Has anybody actually seen or used this system?

--Joe

[s/v Faith]

Joe,

  Looking at it, I believe it does include a provision for a ventilation system (would seem mandatory).

Also, what I like is that the 18" height seems to be established by the height of the 1gallon (milk jug?) and the 5 gallon bucket....

They sell the molded seat / diverter set up separately (the part I was dreading making out of fiberglass) so one could make it with a 'shorty' 2.5 gallon bucket and a smaller / shorter jug.

I think I want something more like ~14" high... but did not want to make a fiberglass mold...

This may put some pressure on the Natures Head / Airhead folks to get more realistic on their $$$ too...

[Oldrig]

Looking at it, I believe it does include a provision for a ventilation system (would seem mandatory).

Yep. I looked more closely at the website, and there's a video on how to build a ventilator fan.

Also, I'm not sure that I'm that happy with a system that essentially asks you to store your solid waste in sealed buckets until you can dump them someplace. But it does seem to be a cross between build-your-own and the higher-end Nature's Head and AirHead systems.

--Joe

[Captain Smollett]

Also, I'm not sure that I'm that happy with a system that essentially asks you to store your solid waste in sealed buckets until you can dump them someplace.

Don't all the composting heads require this...that is, the solid waste is turning into or has been turned into 'compost,' and during that process, it must be stored.

Or, is this not really a composting head?  I looked at the site, but could not really tell; is it merely a porta-potty with the solids and liquids separated?

My understanding is that one of the BIG advantages of the composters is disposal...you are disposing (mostly sanitized) compost, not actually sewage.

Right?

(Genuine question...trying to sift through all the marketing glitz and get to what is really going on with these things because I really like the concept).

[s/v necessity]

I'm going to throw in my limited understanding of composting heads here in reposonse....  Composting heads do not really ever fully compost the material, but they do take advantage of the process.  I think the main benifit to the composting action of a composting head is that the material within the container degrades enough that you can go a good deal of time without emptying it (it shrinks in volume), and the smell is not offensive.  I'm not sure, but I think more time, and probably a larger mass of material than is allowed by a 5 gallon bucket would be required to acheive true compost.  In other words:  What you end up with is a non offensive substance, but it's still poo...    (this is coming from a guy who does not yet have a composting toilet though, So I'm mostly just yappin)  Of course when asked what you just dumped overboard the answer is always "compost" :)

[s/v necessity]

Well I've just finished sifting through the C-Heads website, and it seems that Old Rig has a point in that the C-Head compared to it's competitors fills up quicker.  So now I'm left wonder why?  What about it's specific design is different?  Does it just have less storage space to begin with?  Does it not compost as well? (perhaps because it starts with less space to begin with?)  It's my understanding that a couple cruising with a Natures Head or an Air Head can go quite some time before emptying the solids container (considerably more than a week).

   Even so, I think the C-head looks very interesting and perhaps perfect for what we have in mind.  I do appreciate that they have made an obvious attempt to avoid proprietary and expensive parts.

[Oldrig]

Please note:

Dave and Sandy, the inventors of the C-Head composting system have started a thread, in "Gear Here(**)," where they are, I hope, willing to answer questions about their system. The subject is a bit different, "Composting Toilets." Here's a link to that thread.

http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php/topic,3470.0.html

I, for one, look forward to their feedback.

--Joe


(**) On Edit:  I moved that thread to "Man-O-Facturer's" due to the commercial interest of the C-Head folks.  Other than changing boards, the thread is intact as it was, and the above link works to the correct thread.
(**)On Edit Edit: Thanks, John! I was thinking I would invite them to post here, until I saw they've arrived. :)

[Wade]

Ahoy,
      Has anyone here tried a composting toilet aboard? I've been reading a blog from a fellow I really like http://www.sv-galena.com/. He has a Westsail 32 with a composting toilet. I havn't found what type yet but it seems to work great for him. Back in my hippie days I built a straw built house and made a composting toilet from a 55 gallon drum that worked pretty good. I have to say I'm a little tired of the pumpouts and would love to get rid of the holding tank and not have to deal with it.   Any feed back?     Sail far,  Wade