Radar Systems?

[Skipper Dave]

I have to admit we still are without one.  I have been looking so let me ask...what kind do you have and why did you choose that particular one.  Keep in mind we sail across the shipping lanes everytime we go to Catalina, which is several times a year.

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This morning it looked so nice out I thought I'd leave it out.

S/V "Tina Marie" Cal 2-27

[captedteach]

Isnt that just a daysail to Catalina?  As long as I was not making long overnite passages on a regular basis I dont think I would worry about it.  You are looking at a good bit of power to run the thing so that means a genset or at least a extra altenator to keep the batteries charged. Yeah it would be nice but is it really worth it?   Just think of all the Bufalo Milks that money would buy  ;D

[Skipper Dave]

Capt,

Now that's worth mentioning I LOVE my buffalo milk.  The first thing my wife and I do when we get there is order a burger and buffalo milk.  After one I switch cause they are so rich but taste great.  Have you ever gone to Buccaneer Day?  Talk about crazy fun...

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This morning it looked so nice out I thought I'd leave it out.

S/V "Tina Marie" Cal 2-27

[Skipper Dave]

Capt,

I should have mentioned the picture you see was taken Two Harbors Buccaneer Day 2004.  But back to the radar, you're right it's only a 5 1/2 hr sail but we do go at night sometimes granted the cargo ships are lit up like christmas trees hard to miss them my main concern is FOG day or night I hate the fog.

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This morning it looked so nice out I thought I'd leave it out.

S/V "Tina Marie" Cal 2-27

[captedteach]

Buccaneer Day - heck I thought you just dressed like that!!  As far as the Fog goes all boats are SUPPOSED to make some noise while in Fog  Gong Bell or Horn so that will take care of the ships but you gotta listen for them inbetween making some noise of your own

[Frank]

Has any one here mounted /installed their own radar.Do you get whats needed in the 'kits' or do ya still end up with a bunch more $$$$$ to get things going???

[Jack Tar]

I dont have radar. I try to avoid fog like the plague . Most of the time August in the San Juans will have the most fog. If there fog sets in I just stay put . If I get caught out well we will cross the bridge when we get to it. Probably follow the fathom lines with the depth sounder. Last resort get out the fog Knife .
Im thinking as often as I would use the radar / almost never / It's just to much of a power drain on an already small electrical system . I g with the Kiss princiapal.

[Solace]

I have been considering one of the newer radar systems that use the laptop for the screen.
Give it a couple of more years and I'm sure we'll see great strides in product development and hopefully less power requirements.

[s/v Faith]

I have been considering one of the newer radar systems that use the laptop for the screen.
Give it a couple of more years and I'm sure we'll see great strides in product development and hopefully less power requirements.

  I agree the technology will improve and within the next couple years the power consumption should come down.

  The problem with the 'laptop only' display is that the new lcd displays already are pretty low drain, the current is going to the xmitter.  I believe that improvements in the reciever will allow lower current drain.

  Until then, I can't find room for it in the power budget.

[mrbill]

I knowthe topic of radar in small boats has been discussed here before, but I bring it up again:

After having spent several days caught in pea soup Maine fogs this  summer (couldn't see the top of my mast at one point), I have been reconsidering radar. Especially since the lobstermen seem to keep working regardless. I hear lots of engines arouond me and can't see anything! My chartplotter will get my home, but it won't let me see obstacles like other boats.

Before you say "just don't go out in it in the first place" that isn't always easy. The fog banks often linger just off shore. They may, or may not, come in. So you kinda have to make a decision to go, or you could be harbor bound for days on end if you are afraid to go out. It may be a beautiful sunny day where you are, and for a few miles offshore. If you DON"T go you may miss great sailing.

I have been looking at the cheapest radar unit I could find (so far that is a Furuno 1623). I don't need a lot of sophistication and I don't want to tie radar into my other systems (GPS or depth). This unit has a monochrome display.

Anyone with experience with this unit, or have other recommendations?

[Godot]

I can't speak to radar brands; but I know exactly where you are coming from.  One of the most uncomfortable trips I ever had was a friend of a friends boat sailing to Block Island.  The fog was thick enough that you couldn't see to fordeck from the cockpit.  We even had a radar; but not being able to see in busy waters was not pleasant (at least to me; no one else seemed uncomfortable).

If I sailed regularly in Maine I would have to consider radar, too; although I don't see how I could mount it on my little boat.

Good luck!

[AdriftAtSea]

While I don't have any experience with the Furuno unit mentioned, I do know that the newer LCD-based radars have become a good deal more reasonable in terms of power consumption, and are now pretty feasible for small sailboats.

I agree that a radar is a necessity in heavy fog, among other conditions.  It can make the difference between making a passage in marginal conditions and having to delay for an extended period of time.  Radar can also help you avoid serious storm cells.

One other thing is that the fog is often only over relatively small areas and having radar can allow you to navigate out past the fog-bound area, into clear sailing.  I deal with fog on a fairly regular basis, sailing up in New England.  Often the areas covered are smaller than you'd expect from the weight and density of the fog. 

However, IMHO, for the novice radar operator, I think a unit that can do GPS Chartplotter overlay makes much more sense.  The small boat radar units tend to have fairly wide beams and as such are a bit more difficult to read, especially if you do not have significant training and experience in doing so.  By having the ability to overlay a GPS chartplot, you can seriously reduce the risks of making major errors in reading the radar image.

Also, you should keep in mind that while the distance information obtained by a smalll boat radar is relatively accurate, the bearing information generally requires a good deal more latitude for possible error.
 
I would go with the 4kW units, rather than the 2kW units if at all possible, due to the finer discrimination and narrower beam allowed by the higher power units. 

[mrbill]

I hear you about the overlay of chartplotter and radar...but...last weekend my GPS chartplotter died. Had I had a radar tied into it, I would have lost that too. I'm very leery of tying everything into one unit and being overly dependent upon everything wroking correctly. Also that adds a layer of complexity I don't want to deal with.

[Fortis]

The furuno gives you the option of overlayed displays (which are wonderful!) or of going to seperate screens. The screen really is just a display unit, and it is possible to have the radar (or indeed any of the other components) feed into your laptop as either a backup or a duel-display system.

The newer coastguard boats all come fitted with the new gen of furuno and I cannot wait till our flotilla has its current boat replaced.
The very best part is not the GPS/chartplotter/depth/radar overlay....The icing on the cake is the tie-in with satelite photos of the area (not always guarenteed to be up-to-date, as I think they license images form GoogleEarth). So you can now have the entire display overlayed onto a sat photo of where you are...and I can tell you that this is way better then just a gimmick.
They are having to re-write the search and rescue excercise manual because with the new gear we are finishing whole excercises designed to run for a day in under an hour or so.

The gain on the unit in radar mode is really impressive, too...It takes the "victim" boat some very deft manuevering indeed to get "lost" at the start of an excercise as the unit can pick out "real" targets from wave clutter and other nonsense very well (mature software, rather then improved radar, I think). One of the other nifty functions is track-lock. This allows you to pinpoint one or several targets and have them highlighted ina different colour. the system then keeps them straight, so that if you are looking at a 16 blob cluster, one of which is the fellow sailboat you are following and you look away for a minute, when you look down, you can still know which is which (I suspect that this would be really usefull for ocean racing).


I do not have this system on my boat....but I want to. I suspect the tech will drop in price to the merely outrageous in about 1 to 2 years....And then I shall pounce!


Alex.

[AdriftAtSea]

I would highly agree that having a single screen be a single point of failure is not good on a small boat.  However, most of the systems can use multiple screens, to display chartplotter, radar or both.  Ideally, you'd have a two-screen setup, with the same information available in both the cockpit and the nav station.  While this is more expensive, I think it would be the best solution for a small boat, especially since the overlay makes interpreting the radar image much simpler IMHO.

[mrbill]

...Ideally, you'd have a two-screen setup, with the same information available in both the cockpit and the nav station. 

NAV STATION??? You're kidding, right? I have a 25 footer...the GPS and a chart on my lap IS the Nav station.

[Godot]

NAV STATION??? You're kidding, right? I have a 25 footer...the GPS and a chart on my lap IS the Nav station.

Grog for making me chuckle.

I think when we start talking about radar it's easy to forget that we are talking rather small boats.  Frankly, the system being talked about would probably cost two or three times the value of my boat.  But it is nice to dream once in awhile.

[Auspicious]

There are all kinds of times when radar makes sailing much more comfortable and often safer.

For a small boat, consider some of the collateral upgrades:

do you have enough energy in your batteries to use the radar for a reasonable time?
where will you put the scanner? what is the impact on stability of high weight?

[Captain Smollett]

NAV STATION??? You're kidding, right? I have a 25 footer...the GPS and a chart on my lap IS the Nav station.

;D ;D

I was thinking the exact same thing!!  Have another grog.   :)

[Auspicious]

...Ideally, you'd have a two-screen setup, with the same information available in both the cockpit and the nav station. 

NAV STATION??? You're kidding, right? I have a 25 footer...the GPS and a chart on my lap IS the Nav station.

Ideally I'd have a Moody 49 or an HR 54! <grin>

Radar showed up below on recreational boats first because the displays wouldn't survive in the cockpit. Time has moved on. My E80 (admittedly on a medium-sized boat, not a truly small one) lives happily under the dodger. When conditions are a bit sporty (fog, rain, sleet, etc and blowing stink) I'm happy to be huddled under the dodger and able to see the display. Most of the time Sven (autopilot) drives, but I can reach the wheel from "my spot."

I enjoy doing planning on my laptop, but as a singlehander most of the time, anything below is not very useful while underway.

In my opinion, chartplotters and radar displays should go on the cabin top under a dodger if you can, otherwise on a mount in the companionway.

YMMV.