Computer for our boats

[AdriftAtSea]

I've used several of the recent Linux variants, and none are quite ready for prime time.  They still take a bit more to get running than Windows does, and IMHO, most people are going to have some trouble with getting WINE and SeaClear up and running.   Granted, they're a lot better than they used to be... but still, like Microsoft Windows Vista, are basically beta-ware.

I'm sorry to belabor the point, here, but you are setting up a false dichotomy.  I am telling you that I use navigation/charting software on my Linux computer ALL THE TIME, and it took NO EFFORT to get it to work:  Loaded the software on my computer, clicked the icon, and it worked.

Is Windows any easier than that?  How can it be?

[Captain Smollett]

I've used several of the recent Linux variants, and none are quite ready for prime time.  They still take a bit more to get running than Windows does, and IMHO, most people are going to have some trouble with getting WINE and SeaClear up and running.   Granted, they're a lot better than they used to be... but still, like Microsoft Windows Vista, are basically beta-ware.

Sorry, but you must not have tried Linux within the past 5 years or you are not using the right Distro's.

Installation of Mandrake/Mandriva is about 5x EASIER than Windows (the OS itself); wine is installed automatically by the installation package manager with the OS (or is a one-click install if you don't install with the OS), and it was

GET THIS NOW

NO EFFORT WHATSOEVER to get either SeaClear OR Chart Navigator (both free downloads) to work.  Both work with BSB raster charts and both interface with GPS via NMEA if that's your bag.

This "not ready for prime time" is FUD and has not been true for years.  In addition to Mandrake/Mandriva, I've also installed and used the Fedora Core series, Mepis, Debian, Knoppix and have seen Ubuntu in action.  All work out of the box, and all have better/easier installation procedures than modern WIndows (XP and Vista, even 2000 imo).

Not ready for prime time, forsooth.

To each his own, though.  If YOU don't like Linux for whatever reason, that's your business.  But don't make the claim that there is anything lacking with the OS OR with getting nav software to run on it.  My real world experience  says otherwise.  In addition, a large contingent of the folks over on Renegade Cruisers use Linux as well, and I don't see any of them complaining about having to work extraordinarily hard to get their boat related software to run.

All from me on this subject.  I've said my peace.  If anyone wants to run Linux, go for it.  It works.  Don't listen to naysayers.

[Godot]

I've used Suse.  Excellent.
I've used Mandrake/Mandriva.  Also excellent.
I've used Knoppix and other live cd's. 

Frankly, I cringe whenever I'm forced to use Windows (just on my work PC, currently.  I no longer have to support Windows boxes, happily :) )
There are two problems I've run across that required extra effort.  Getting one of my wireless network cards to work (a Microsoft card, oddly enough); and getting dual displays setup the way I wanted.  The NIC was a pain, although I'm told newer distros are taking care of the wrapper nonsense.  The dual displays DID work; but I'm picky about the way my pc gets set up.  I doubt most people would be effected by either problem.

Beta-ware?  No more so than ANY of the Windows variants.

The proof?  My wife uses my Linux box without thinking about it.  I'm not even sure she realizes it ISN'T Windows.

I saved a small fortune on software, too.

Linux is ready for prime time.  It's just a matter of breaking the Windows inertia.

(oh, if there is one place that software lacks, it is in the high end gaming.  Since I mostly use my PC as a tool, not a game console, I rarely notice).

[Joe Pyrat]

Also consider software availability, if running other then a Windows variant OS.  It can be done, but what do you want to accomplish?  Do you want to mess about with computers or do you want a tool to help navigate your boat.

I'm sorry to belabor the point, here, but you are setting up a false dichotomy.  I am telling you that I use navigation/charting software on my Linux computer ALL THE TIME, and it took NO EFFORT to get it to work:  Loaded the software on my computer, clicked the icon, and it worked.

Is Windows any easier than that?  How can it be?

I think you missed my point.  A quick Google of Windows based marine nav software came up with something like 25 different companies making close to 40 different Windows based applications.  What I was saying is that your software options are more limited when you start looking at the number of non-Windows products available simply because Microsoft has such a large chunk of the market.

Threads like this attract people interested in computers and thus a higher percentage of Linux users than one would find in a national average of computer users.  I'm sure you had no problems setting up your Linux OS as well as your Linux based nav software, but the average computer user will need to not only learn how to operate his or her navigation package but will also need to learn how to operate Linux.

[maxiSwede]

Interesting thread. I am not a computer wizard or freak of any kind. Guess the correct label on me would be 'just above average user'

I have owned and run Mac's for twenty years, mostly because I have got a couple of friends who are sort of wizards on them-

Anyway; a year ago I purchased a laptop with Win XP to run my nav programs. I hae got two separate systems/programs installed with chart for the entire planet on both.

Tsunami and CmapECS

Would any of those run on LInux?

I like LInux since I always tend to favor the underdog, esp. if being non-commercial versus 'BigMAmmon' alias Microsoft  ;)

[Lynx]

The company is out of stock until Dec and is in the middle east. Not sure if the price is in US Dollars and includes shipping.

A little small screen for me to use. The voltage is 5v. No pics on site. May be the PC of the future.

[Joe Pyrat]

maxiSwede,

You can run a Windows emulator on Linux like WineHQ (http://www.winehq.org/) which will allow you to run your Windows nav programs on a Linux box.  SeaClear's website, mentioned by Captain Smollett, is actually a Windows based program, but on their website they state that it has been successfully run on Linux using WineHQ.  However, be aware, emulators usually induce their own set of issues so you would probably be more satisfied either running your Windows based software on Windows or finding a package designed specifically for Linux.

[maxiSwede]

maxiSwede,

You can run a Windows emulator on Linux like WineHQ (http://www.winehq.org/) which will allow you to run your Windows nav programs on a Linux box.  SeaClear's website, mentioned by Captain Smollett, is actually a Windows based program, but on their website they state that it has been successfully run on Linux using WineHQ.  However, be aware, emulators usually induce their own set of issues so you would probably be more satisfied either running your Windows based software on Windows or finding a package designed specifically for Linux.

Joe Pyrat-

Thanks a lot for the info. Seems useful and I will try it out on my semi-antique Thinkpad for starters...

[Joe Pyrat]

LOL, my Linux machine is a Thinkpad too.

Good on ya'

;D

[nowell]

found the perfect computer for most of you folks, and at a decent price too!

http://www.thebookpc.com/product_info.php/cPath/68_33/products_id/431

Would work just fine for most everything we would need it for!

And you could water proof it with a zip lock sandwich baggie!  ;D

[AdriftAtSea]

The only thing I'd highly recommend doing with that unit is upping the RAM to say at least 1 GB if at all possible. Not  a bad little machine.  The real problem is getting a decent screen to use with it.

[nowell]

Well, yea the ram is hard wired in. Also on the site they have a few small screens. While not great for some of the "saltier" old salts we have, it still isn't a bad little set up. Also if you wanted to use it with a usb wireless mouse/keyboard, you could find a way to mount a monitor/tv on a bulkhead and run it to the box. All hidden and nice.

Im thinking of getting one just to see how it works.

[Frank]

I'm NOT the guy to recomend anything to do with computers...but this is my boat/travel unit in the picture. A Fujitsu P1510....the size of a book..easy to carry to the cafe for wireless and put in a ziplock in the dingy.

[Joe Pyrat]

I considered something like this, but when you add the display, keyboard, external CD/DVD drive, you are taking up almost, if not as much space as a laptop would and you have fewer options, WRT memory upgrades.  The major advantage would be no inverter assuming you didn't need one for the external drive.  Still it would be interesting to play with.  My inner geek thinks it would be fun to setup as a server running Linux so I would have my own client/server LAN onboard.  :)

Edit...  Hm, 5 or six of these setup as a Linux cluster...   ;D 

Sorry, I sometime have these geek attacks...   ::)

[Godot]

I've been thinking the new breed of sub notebooks or "netbooks" have a lot of promise.  Most of them are running Linux, but some are Windows XP compatible (512mb is fine for XP).  I, personally, prefer linux; but I'm not certain if all the software that the techie sailor would desire is available for linux.  I think all the major players have something out now.

The ASUS Eee PC (several flavors: big screens, small screens, solid state memory and hard drive) are fairly popular I understand.  Others look good, too.

(Probably not the best choice for the power users out there ... I suspect video editing would be less than stellar, for instance)

[xirii]

As the proud owner (kinda) of an Asus EEEPC I can recommend the pocket notebooks for anyone who knows what they are doing or can take a trial run of their exact unit prior to purchase.  I've got a 16g model, it is quite sufficient for general use, wastes a bit of time hiccuping when you ask too much of it at once.  (Music, 12 tabs open in a browser, and serious photo manipulation going on.  Gets slow.  Here's the thing.  No CD/DVD drive.  Not too big of a deal, except it's a biscuit trying to make a bootable thumb drive that'll work with this silly system.  I've been trying to get rid of the warped Xandros distro (Asus altered it a bit so it could be more proprietary) and have failed miserably.  I can usually find my way around or through a system, but this one is so *$&% that I find myself going back to my old irritating monster laptop just to avoid the distro.   On the other hand, Dell and HP(hiss) now have similar pocket notebooks so the market is growing and perhaps you'll find one with a better distro on it.  (You have to wonder when they send CD recovery discs to accompany a computer that has no drive!)  It's amazing how convenient it is to drag everywhere when the laptop is smaller than half my books!  :-) 

[CapnK]

I know this: Hardware is getting better, smaller, faster all the time. What we see now on the shelves was just a gleam in an engineers (or fellow geeks ;) ) eyes maybe 2 years ago. I have no idea what it will be like in 3 years, so I am sure not making any decisions now. :)

The little 12V systems are way cool. Although in total they may be the size of a laptop, it would be nice to have the keyboard and monitor being 2 separate pieces, at least on my little nav station/diner. Having the screen be able to fold away flat against the cabinet (above a nook that fits the keyboard), but when the screen was folded out it would be able to tilt and rotate would be very cool, and open up valuable, easy-and-quick-access tabletop real estate.

That said, just a few years from now? How about a waterproof, wireless, 1/4" thick, bendable foldable rollable screen that goes for several hours on a 2-4 rechargeable AA's? *Good* speech recognition, instead of typing? Systems so small that you could carry them in your pocket, which draw 1/4 the current of todays systems, and have no moving parts? Small but fast hardware to connect to satellite internet servers? All of these are in active development and have been prototyped (with the possible exception of the 'good' speech recognition - I haven't played with that much). WHo knows what's just around the corner...  8)

And I am continually surprised at how often now I see the word "Linux" in computer related posts, especially on what are essentially non-geek websites. :D

[AdriftAtSea]

CapnK-

Won't be too long from now, especially if the OLED tech comes along as well as they hope.

[nowell]

So a co-worker purchased one of these last week. We have been doing some testing here in the office, and its down to 4 watts of power with the wifi turned off  ;D

This is starting to look like my new onbard computer solution. It should handle the eletronic side of my logs, maint schedule/prices/etc, charts.

I think I might pull the trigger on one in January, since my move aboard date is March. When I get mine, ill give pictures, and be sure to write up a review.

[Joe Pyrat]

Nowell, is that with keyboard video and mouse?  I'd be interested in a power consumption breakdown showing the system plus the delta on each component including external drives.  At the power levels you are seeing I'd be really interested in one of these, especially if it includes KVM.