Container ships

[Artful]

was wondering has any one, any input into the number of containers falling off container ships.  It was told to me by the coast guard that there are 20 to 30 thousand fall off each year and of that only about 10 percent sink, leaving the rest to float a few inches below the surface.  Point being all the Nike running shoes showing up on Incland shores.

[CapnK]

I've read of numbers like that - but even more! Up to 50K gone overboard per year, was what I read.

And *that's* why I want a boat that won't sink, or will sink only really, really slowly, so I can keep up with it while effecting emergency repairs... ;D



(PS - Gonna move this topic to the sailFar General Discussion, where more folks might see it...)

[Bill NH]

Some interesting excerpts from an article on the website of Vero Marine, NZ's largest marine underwriter...

"WHAT are the chances of a ship hitting a container lost on the high seas? Despite widespread fears about the danger to both small and large vessels from lost boxes, the answer appears to be: negligible. The number of containers lost overboard is said to be a tiny percentage of those transported, and of those that do go adrift, most inevitably sink within a short time. So say experts at the Through Transport Club, who insure 15 of the top 20 container lines for their container losses, in addition to many other carriers."

"At any given time, between 5 million and 6 million boxes are in transit. The TT Club calculates that the total number lost over the side is probably less than 2,000 per year..."

However, they go on to say that
"Containers are rarely watertight. Most have small openings and distortions. However, if 11 kg of seawater per hour entered a 20' container, it would take some 57 days it to sink; and some 183 days for a 40' container! These times may be considerably shortened by the in-water deterioration of seals, but this does indicate that floating containers can remain a hazard to shipping for some time.

Our information is that most containers do in fact sink. This may be due to the effects of poor maintenance, the fact that a container is a fragile object not intended to fend off a boarding sea, the initial distortions as the container breaks free, the subsequent impact with the ocean and the battering of loose cargo. "

The article, with photos, is online at http://www.veromarine.co.nz/dirvz/marine/marine.nsf/Content/PhotoFeature0007

A national Geographic article puts the number of lost containers a bit higher - "Every year, more than 10,000 containers fall overboard and spill their cargo into the ocean..."  This number appears to have been picked up by other media outlets as well, but its source is not identified.

In any case, I'd say estimates from 20k to 50k are probably high...

[Lynx]

I see more wood, trees and other stuff in the water to worrie about the containers.

[Artful]

At least one can see what is on top of the water but the containers are 14 to 20 inches below the water and black, being I'm going to be doing blue water sailing soon have installed forward looking sonar to help solve this problem.

[AdriftAtSea]

Very few containers are black... I can't think of any major containerized freight line that uses black containers.  Most are painted medium to light colors, to avoid them heating up any more than necessary.  A shipping container that was painted black would probably be significantly warmer on the interior than one that is painted white or light blue.

[Artful]

The reason for saying their black is that under the water their colour reflected is dark shades, closer to black, as have seen one in the harbor dropped by accident and although it was a bright aluminum colour it appeared black under the surface

[nick]

And this is another reason why my next boat will be steel.

I don't care what anybody says about percentages or anything - Steel is real, and it would quite simply take a massive load off of my mind knowing no containers were going to puncture me! Not to mention being radar visible... Anyway, this isn't a steel boat forum, back to the containers.

This business idea is allowed to be stolen: Someone should start making emergency sink valves, made out of the same stuff that auto inflating lifejackets are - Those little dissolvable tablets that let the hammer hit the CO2 canister. A company could make easily installable valves on the similar principle, that can be drilled into containers, so that if they do go overboard, they actually make a hole in themselves and sink!

nick

[TJim]

Having spent about 30 years in the metal fabrication business, it is my belief that it would be far easier to punch a hole in 3/16th steel which has very little give than in 3/4" fiberglass.  Could be wrong but you'd have to prove it to me.  At any rate I'd rather have the problem of a hole in the glass than a hole in the steel.  I think I can fix the hole in the glass in the middle of nowhere, but I think there would be more problems fixing a hole in the steel.  Steel is a lot more subject to oxidation than fiberglass, and therefore more prone to weak spots after being on the water for awhile.

[Artful]

Some boats are making closed sections in the bow of the boat, fill with water for just such reason of running into something at sea, and the report is in all cases I've read been a real saver, water filled bulk heads

[AdriftAtSea]

My boat  has something like that for the main hull, and the amas are separated into three separate compartments in any case.  The forward portion of the main hull is the holding tank for the head, and that acts much like a crash barrier, since the tank is double skinned and built into the main hull.

[Lost Lake]

And this is another reason why my next boat will be steel.

I don't care what anybody says about percentages or anything - Steel is real, and it would quite simply take a massive load off of my mind knowing no containers were going to puncture me!
nick

I think the Titanic was steel.    :P


Fiberglass seems pretty tough.

Oh heck, what do I know??  I'm here to learn not teach. Don't misconstrue my input as anything but a desire to keep the posts flowing so I can gobble up information....  :)

I'm sitting in my home looking out at a yearly record snowfall telling myself that I could retire at 55 (when my baby goes to college) and float around the BVI for a few years....

[olivertwist]

Artful,
Can you tell us more about the forward-looking sonar? That sounds interesting.
Oliver

[mudnut]

Well for what it's worth,I have read a lot of posts on a lot of forums were most people that have forward sonar,that it's practicly useless for things like containers and better for anchoring in reefy areas.
                                                                                                                   
     The main reason being distance that an object is located ,against reaction time,could be longer if down below when the alarm bells ring.While at slower speeds aproaching reefy areas and deep to shallow spots it is a helpfull tool,as you would be more alert to what is actually happening 250mtrs forward of your course.
                                                                                                                 
     I personly don't have any knowledge,I just read alot.Mudnut.

[AdriftAtSea]

The other problem with forward looking sonar, is that it is still a fairly complicated and expensive device that consumes a fair amount of electricity.  Most sailfar boats don't have the luxury of having huge battery banks, and for FLS to really help, it has to be on all the time the boat is underway or you might as well not have it.   

That said, most of the sailfar boats have a relatively shallow draft, compared to larger sailboats, and many would probably push up onto a partially submerged container rather than hitting it squarely, since most containers won't be floating perfectly upright.

[Artful]

The forward looking sonar is sold through Raymarine, but the company is in England, if you do a search on Echo pilot you will get the real deal, and must say very glade to have it as it is also a forward looking depth sounder, being able to creep closer to shore, even with doing a 360 sweep can see the bottom and determine if safe to anchor.

[matt195583]

I believe some containers are fitted with corrosive bungs , that allow a container to sink within a week or so instead of the months .

[AdriftAtSea]

You also have to take into account that most of the containers that fall off a ship are doing so from a fairly significant height, and if they're fully loaded, the impact with the water may well be enough to rupture the integrity of the container itself.  Go down to a big commercial harbor and look at how much freeboard a containership has... it's a pretty high drop...

[thistlecap]

Hitting a container is admittedly rare, but it happens, and may only have to happen once.  I hit one about 1973 off the coast of Maine, and containers were no where near as prevalent then as they are now.  We came down off a wave and landed right square on top the thing.  The boat crashed and shuddered like she had been dropped on concrete, and then listed over on her port side like I'd run aground.  Fortunately, we landed square on top the box with the keel.  Our weight caused the container to roll, dropping us off, and only then did I catch a glimpse of the corner of the container breaking the surface. I'd estimate the container would have been 3-4 feet below the surface.  A later inspection showed a long gouge in the keel.  I was lucky all the incident cost me was some epoxy putty.

But containers aren't the only thing you need to worry about.  I wrote yesterday about the 12 unmanned sailboats floating about the North Atlantic in '92.  We've found large steel ship mooring buoys, dredge buoys, navigational buoys.  One night I was sailing on the lee side of the cockpit peering out over the lee rail.  Just as I stood to take a look to weather, the pole of an unlit net buoy struck the side of the rail right where I'd been sitting.  If I'd been a second or two later moving, the thing would have taken my head off.  All of this is why, whenver I can,  I plan my departures so the full moon will occur in the middle of my expected passage time.

[CharlieJ]

According to an article I just read ( National Geographic) there are over 10, 000 containers lost off ships each year- and this article was a while ago- probably more now.

Getting more and more littered out there >:(