Laptop discussion; Power use, type, etc....

[captedteach]

Well boys and girls - I was introduced to a nifty product the other day and thought I would share it with you.  It is a GPS reciever that plugs into your USB port on your laptop and the information is displayed on the screen.  There are several of these available from 65.00 to around 200.00  The Marine unit from Fugawi is compatable with several chart software programs so that your laptop is now your chartplotter as well.

http://www.deluoelectronics.com/customer/home.php?cat=27 

This link will get you started - I was also told that some office supply stores have the non marine versions in stock

[Jack Tar]

I also have the Fugawi program. A little primitive but I like the fact that it can use several chart formats. Other programs often wont do this. I also have
MapSource and Map Send/Blue Map. I use them all on my lap top. I also have them loaded on my Desl Top computer. I plan my vacation and routes at home then up load to my lap top and also the hanf held . Its easyer to see the route on the computer and then uplad the weigh points and route to the hand held.

[Solace]

I have been experimenting with many different setups over the last 4 years with GPS and laptops.
Most required a serial port to USB adapter cord as USB wasn't available.
However, I know keep my Garmin 76 at the helm and use a Microsoft GPS (which came with Streets & Trips 2005). This GPS has no screen, but it is USB and every charting program (I currently use Cap'n) I've tried it with recognizes it right away. Price wise it is one of the cheapest, smallest and also runs off of the laptop's power - which I consider an asset.

John

[CapnK]

I experimented with laptop chartplotting in the past, but for my purposes it didn't work out (too much energy, cables, and my low-vis-in-daylight laptop screen). However, it is a lot of fun, here's a neat link if you'd like to try it for free...

SeaClear is a free chartplotting program. Used to be that its main drawback was that you had to scan in your own charts, then, on a per chart basis, set the scale, projection, and "register" the scanned chart (provide known coordinates on the chart so the software could calculate where you were). None of this was really hard, it just took time. Recently, though, NOAA has put on the web for free Raster charts, so to use SeaClear anymore you don't need to do the scanning-in part. Cool! I don't have a link to the NOAA raster charts, maybe someone else can provide that. Once you have the charts on your system, hook up your GPS and go! :)

[Dougcan]

The NOAA raster charts (AKA ENC charts) is located at:

http://chartmaker.ncd.noaa.gov/mcd/enc/download.htm

Read the "EULA" first as there is several important regulation changes noted in there, the actual button that allows you to access the free charts is at the bottom of the link page.

[CapnK]

Doug -

The ENC and the Raster charts I was talking about are two different things. The Raster charts are simple scanned-in raster format charts, where, IIUC, the ENC charts carry data in their formatting, and are not just a scanned image.

OK, you made me Google it :P - here's a couple of links, first a brief explanation of the differences, and the 2nd is the page where you can download/get the charts of both types. :)

http://chartmaker.ncd.noaa.gov/mcd/rncenc.htm

http://nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/staff/charts.htm

[s/v Faith]

The Captain.

  I have experimented with 'the Captain' and think it would be great..... if you had a very low power laptop, and display that was viewable in daylight.....

  Personally, like Kurt, I don't see it fitting into my navigation plans.  That said,  I do think it is useful for trip planning (for those who plan)  ;D

 

[captedteach]

I think the only time this would be a great help would be coming into - well heck just about anywhere on the ICW.  I dont see using it out in open water but getting into an anchorage I think I could spare the power to have a detailed screen that I could see vs the 1.5x2in greyscale on my HH GPS.  On my boat I can stand in the companionway with the puter at the nav station and still have my hand on the tiller and be able to see where I'm going.  Add this to the array of other nav tools and it could be a great asset and for just 80.00 it sure is cheap enuff to consider for even the most frugal boater. 

[CharlieJ]

Laura and I tried to use the ENC charts this spring on the ICW. We found them to be practically worthless, even as a planning device on the laptop. Bridges, bridge clearances, locks, etc just plain aren't shown. Plus we had a VERY hard time figuring exactly WHERE on each chart we were- the markers are shown, but the NUMBERS on those markers aren't always shown. So you see a marker, and can't corrolate it to the chart. Makes it damned hard to locate yourself. Besides that the zooming function is not user friendly at all. aLSO, THE NUMBERS THEY CHOSE TO USE ON THE enc CHARTS BEAR no RESEMBLANCE TO THE REGULAR CHART NUMBERS, SO IT'S EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO FIGURE which CHART YOU WANT TO LOOK AT. (Damned CAPS Lock- live with it- I'm not retyping it :))

We are looking with interest at the newer chart releases however.

Oh- and by the way- coming into an anchorage on the east coast ICW you'd be far better served to be watching your depth sounder  or as we often do, have someone on the bow swinging a lead. Charts aren't much  use once you get down to the act of slipping in ready to anchor ;)  On the gulF coast ICW (GICW) anchorages are where you find them anyway and the charts won't tell you if they are useable or not- the lead saved us more times than once, and we only draw 3'3".

[vinegarj]

does anyone know which laptops are the most energy efficient?  i know that the more upscale screens (e.g., plasma) can draw more current, but i'm having a devil of a time finding a comparison the overall amps drawn by various laptops. 

[Godot]

For a boat computer, low amps is king.  Recently there has been a growing interest in low power laptops (apparently the One Laptop Per Child program has received interest from outside of developing nations).  I don't really know; but when the time comes I'll be interested, too.

[AdriftAtSea]

No currently made computers use Plasma screens.  An easy way to figure out what the average draw for a laptop will be is to look at the wattage of the power supply.  An 85 watt-power supply will draw about 7 amps on a 12 VDC system.  Smaller laptops, with lower power processors, less capable video cards, smaller screens will all lower the power requirements.  The latest laptops use LED-based backlighting for the screen, and this will lower the power requirements compared to a comparable machine using the older cold fluorescent tube backlighting.

BTW, most of the navigation software and such doesn't require a very high-powered machine, and would probably run just fine on an older 1 GHz Pentium III-type machine or one of the newer sub-notebook machines.

[vinegarj]

this is a link to dc cigarette lighter adapters for laptops.  i believe it lists output volts and amps, and there's a fairly significant difference (in amps) among laptops models, but the adapter still needs x-number of watts.   so the energy efficiency of a particular laptop may get defeated by using this type of adapter, yes?
http://www.powerstream.com/ADC-p006.htm

[CapnK]

Hi vinegar -

Also, take a look at "miniATX" and "microATX" computers. Most of them (if not all, I don't know for sure..) are powered by 12V, and some contain no moving parts - not even fans - so they are very efficient, stable, and quiet.

Ideally, hooked to one of these, would be a touchscreen monitor, but last I looked (which has been a while), the supply for those was sporadic, and they were quite small (like 8 inches). That may well have changed.

But I've found that some of the 'normal' flat screen monitors run on 12V, after the power brick attached to them has converted the 120V wall current. SO there are some possibilities there as well.

Some companies are selling ready-made car and boat 12V computers, too. Maybe search for "12V computers" as well. :)

[AdriftAtSea]

The one disadvantage of solid state drives are relatively high cost and low storage.  The current largest SSHD is about 64 GB and fairly expensive when compared to its regular hard drive counterparts.

[Godot]

Well, if we get away from laptops, the fit-pc could be a solution.  3-5 watts.  5v.  Splash and dust resistant enclosure.

Would still need to find a low wattage display to go with it.  It's the system that counts, not necessarily the individual pieces.

[CapnK]

Sure, SSHD's are more expensive, but they draw less energy, can't 'break', etc... - all trade offs, as with everything...

Re: storage capacities - you're a bit behind the times there, Dan. :) There are SS drives with lots more storage than that. A quick search found this one, available last October (9 months ago), that is 128 Gigs. http://techreport.com/articles.x/13163 Yes, the listed price is $4,600.

But now, at Newegg, you can get a 120G SSHD for $619 - what's that, only maybe ~15% of what a similar drive cost 9 months ago? Prices drop fast...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820609304

I also saw a story the other day for a laptop that is a really high-end system, which had spec'ed a hard drive at least that large, I think larger. It was not cheap, but then, new tech never is.

Besides, with the 12V system, you can run your OS on a small SSHD (4G is way more than needed for Linux or XP (configured properly)), and use cheap USB thumbdrives to boost your storage.

Newegg sells 4G thumbdrives for under $15.

In short, the arguments you post against solid state storage are quickly being, if not already have been, pretty much obviated. Seems like the smart way to go, especially in the marine environment, and on a small boat which might periodically be subjected to sudden harsh movement.

[TJim]

My Toshiba Satellite uses an AC adapter that is rated at 1.2 amps.  I plug it into a 60W inverter and never have a problem with it.  That's not much of an electrically correct answer, but I use it around the clock becuz I like the good old music, and about the newest stuff I have (about 3000 songs) is some of the older Willie Nelson stuff. Excuse me, I have down loaded some Nora Jones music, but let's face it, most of her stuff is more than 20 years old.  Anyway I have two 2 battery banks plus a starter battery, all isolated, and I have never run dry. Oh I forgot to mention that I also have a 65W solar collector. One other thing, the inverter doesn't get hotter than just barely warm. It's a cheapy that I got on sale (3 of them) at harbour frieght about 3 years ago for $7.00 each.  I lost (or gave) one but the two that remain still working good.

[AdriftAtSea]

CapnK-

The reputable brands of SS drives are still pretty expensive...  the one you pointed out seems to have a fairly high failure rate, which is not a good idea if you're using the computer for navigation. :)  I have yet to see a reliable, name-brand, SSHD that is greater than 64 GB for less than $1,000. :)

Personally, I wouldn't go with a laptop for shipboard use.  I think a modular MicroATX machine makes far more sense.  Even a Mac Mini would be a pretty decent machine for boat use, if you can mount it in a location that is relatively protected.  Then you could use a weather resistant mouse, keyboard and screen.  :)

The current Mac Minis are relatively inexpensive and have a decent size hard drive, an optical drive and relatively low power requirements. They can also be setup with either Windows or Mac OS X.

[CapnK]

Oh, that drive was just for illustrative purposes, making the point that SSHD's are going up in capacity (production units well over 64G *are* out there), and coming down in price (under $1K) - though the SSHD corollary to Moore's Law has yet to fully kick in, at least it's starting. I'd imagine that in a couple years, the price-per-Gig differences between a normal drive and a SSHD will start to become relatively small.

Like I said, IMO the best way (value for price point) to go at the current time if you want a mini/microATX system is with a smaller drive + external memory. That way you can have a reliable, natively 12V system for about the current price of a laptop.

There is a product due out soon that I am keen to see reviews of, the Elonex One. It's a ultra-mobile laptop using Linux, with a twist. You can remove the keyboard half of the clamshell, and use the screen part as a tablet computer. It will also be very cheap. Get *that* ruggedized, and you might have a good solution for a computer/chartplotter, as far as being able to use it belowdecks or above, on the boat and off...