How do you like to KISS? / Kiss principle --what do you think is necessary

[Lynx]

How to get 12 different answers on a subject, ask 11 cruisers.

[TJim]

Tim, you can get a HOLUX USB GPS that plugs right into your laptop USB, port.  I have one, it's nmea 180 (?) compatible and works like a charm.  The buy it now price, on ebay, right now is $18.99 plus postage.  Do an ebay wide search from their home page.  They got the marine stuff all screwed up so bad that if you do a search for a block, you get 18462 blocks, 18400 of them for old GMC products...

[CharlieJ]

I don't know if this will help but we have a cable to connect our Garmins to the laptop, and use the laptop as a chart plotter. We seldom do under way- usually just for planning purposes and to down load routes and way points. But it's available. Same cord gives us the ability to plug into ships power, rather than use batteries.

[Tim]

Charlie, I have the same setup and do the same thing currently, I'm thinking about linking a receiver directly to my laptop, in essence to have a second GPS in case say, I drop my 76 into the drink ;D

Jim, Those are great prices thanks, now I am just trying to find out if there will be any problem with the Garmin software since they tend to be so proprietary. Have you used Blue Charts with it?

I may go ahead and get on anyway as there is so much more available now in the way of Nav software.

Tim

[freeskier710]

Hey boating family, I haven't been online much the past 6 months, after buying a boat, getting burned by the boat, and then subsequently getting burned out on boating for a while, I am back and ready to try again, so what I would like to know is, what is your favorite way to KISS? or in other words, what methods do you use to keep your cruising life simple? I am lookin once more at pocket/small cruisers to make a purchase and liveaboard because last time things got too complicated too fast, so lets hear it!!!!

[nowell]

Personally, im doing a compete interior rebuild currently, and ripping out alot of "standards" to go with more of what im comfortable with. List includes:

composting head
kero lamps (possibly led's but not really sold yet)
hand held GPS units
kero single burner sove
jerry cans for drinking water (maybe a foot pump for the sink)

About the ONLY complext thing im considering (and not that compex really) is an Electric Yachts inboard. Supporting wind/solar for recharge. Otherwise, im going to make the entire circuit of the boat VERY simple.

[freeskier710]

i love the idea of having an electric inboard with solar/wind charging gives you nearly an unlimited range without a fuel cost, and jerry cans for drinking water is ideal for most cruisers because it keeps your water from having mass contamination, i'm assuming you use kero for cooking as well? to keep from needing more than one type of fuel onboard?

[nowell]

exactly. Im trying to be as simple as possible. I figure 2 power sources (electric and kero or alcohol maybe) is enough. I'll row the dink, and if I can't trouble shoot an important system in less than 1 hour, I don't want it onboard.

[tomwatt]

sailnet had a huge foodfight over inboard electric power several months ago...
but since it was an area I was interested in investigating, I did some math and tried to come up with a usuable solution... biggest concern I could see was generation/storage. Hard to get enough solar real estate in place to charge batteries well... and batteries weigh (and cost) a lot.
Long and short of it was 3-4 hours cruising electric then required several days of recharge. Might work well if you were primarily dockside for shore-power recharge and didn't go long-distance cruising. But that's just base on my calcs. If you're thinking of going that route, be sure to do your math carefully. I was looking at 1,000 lbs. of batteries to get a reasonable cruising range.
Since I'm now relooking boats, I'm likely to land on a small pocket cruiser and do a similar thing as you propose - liveaboard, and try to stay simple. Already have camping down to an artform, so doing it on the water won't be much of a stretch.

[skylark]

My version of KISS is low maintenance.

Four stroke outboard power, easy to switch out motors if one becomes unreliable.  I would not want to mess with an electric propulsion system.

Solar powered electric system with some LED's for lights that stay on a long time (anchor light, running lights, reading light).  No heavy electric loads like refrigeration or microwave.  Although I do use power tools on an inverter and transmit on the ham radio every once and a while.

I like 3 gallon water jugs for drinking water, I can carry two of them a long way if I have to.  The store well and I can also pour from them easily.  I would also like a large water tank, probably a bag system, ideally dual or triple bags totalling over 100 gallons.  I would only fill it all the way when needed.

I want a self inflating life vest with a harness and an epirb attached.

I like my kerosene stove burning mineral spirits, and vented kerosene heater burning cheap kerosene.

Currently using a small pourable portapot which gets poured into a toilet at the marina, and if necessary could be (illegally) poured overboard.  I use a pee bottle which gets poured overboard.

The pump hot water thermos makes cleanup so much easier.  It is my hot water system and makes life much easier.

The blue tarp that fits over the boom and shades the cockpit is extremely important to quality of life. It has a notch cut into it so it extends aft past the end of the boom, close to the stern rail.

[ThistleCap]

Freeskier, Nowell made a great point, which is the model the Amish use.  If you don't have the ability to repair it, you don't want it.  The object is to sail, not run a boatyard repair shop.  If you haven't already, read Lin and Larry Parkey's books.  Perhaps Amazon will have them used. Another are books by Eric and Susan Hiscock. They're older titles now, but still great sources for what you are trying to do.  Manual is better for reliabilitly than power or automatic, and also simpler, and that applies to everything from water pumps, winches, windlass, everything.  The only electronics I carry are fathometer and VHF.  Both are inexpensive enough now they are easily replaced.  Everything else is done the reliable way.  I do carry a GPS handheld, but place more confidence in celestial unless there's simply nothing to take sights on.  The Pacific is littered with GPS wrecks, and I would personally have been lead into trouble by Satnav and GPS on three occasions if my DR hadn't warned me of a problem.  Learn the basics thoroughly and trust them.  Don't take short cuts, and double check everything.  Properly trained and prudent, YOU are the greatest safety device on board.

[freeskier710]

celestial nav is something i really want to learn and keeping things as simple as possible is also high on my list, as for the charging issues of using the electric motor i would only use it entering and exiting a harbor or for making short runs in doldrums just to get things moving along, and i'm pretty handy at troubleshooting electrical issues, i like where this conversation is going, but what i want to know is how YOU keep things simple on your own boat, so lets "stay on target"

[ThistleCap]

Okay.  Staying on target--top to bottom.  
1. Track/slide mainsail attachment.  If you have a groove on either the main or boom, get the boltrope out of the groove and install slugs on the sail.  Lubricate the groove once a month or so.  The choices in lubricants is too great to discuss, but you want one that won't solidify in the cold  or discolor the sails, like teflon.

2. A Windex is great for training students about relative wind, but I tire of constantly looking up.  A better solution is learning to use a combination of the sail telltales and knitting yarn on the shrouds and backstay about 6-ft. off the deck.  One skein of brightly colored yarn will last a lifetime.  The only time it may fail to work is in a combination of fog and light air when it may adhere to the shroud.  The windex tells you which way the boat is pointed, while the telltales tell you exactly what the sails are doing, which is what you want to know.

3. The fewer sheaves a line runs through, the less friction, therefore, the better it works.  If you like lines led to the cockpit, try to use the straightest possible run with the fewest possible sheaves.  I prefer that the halyards tail at the base of the mast for the simple reason that if I need to douse sail quickly, the sail should fall at least 3/4 of the way of its own weight and not need to be pulled down.  While other experiences may vary, I've always found I actually spend less time on deck with halyards tailed at the mast base than with lines led aft.  To a large extent, while one system may be simpler, it's often a matter of what you get used to.

4.  Stick with slab reefing.  It's simpler, fewer moving parts, less friction, the sails set better, and almost zero chance of a failure when you need reliability most.  I have always used three reef bands, but some prefer two deep reefs and a trysail.  The trysail does give the advantage of a backup if you blow out the main, but needs a separate track or the laborious task of tying up the main on the boom, removing all the slides and running the trysail up the track in its place.  An option is putting a gate in the track above the top slide of the main when furled.  The gate can then be opened to feed the trysail.

5. Stick to hanked headsails. (Oh, hear the disagreeing uproar!!!)  I've delivered boats for decades and used almost every set-up you can imagine.  90% of all "emergencies" I've had at sea in some way involved a roller furling sail, whether headsail or main.  For geriatric inland sailing, for casual daysailing, for charter boats, yes, I agree roller furling makes some sense.  For serious sailing hanked sails set better, last longer, are much cheaper, have fewer parts to fail, and are easier to maintain.  On many boats there is a huge performance void between the working jib and the storm jib. Hanked sails give you the additional advantage of having a reefing jib which greatly improves performance and retains drive as the seas build.  The best reason---in a couple hundred thousand miles, I've never had a hanked jib fail to do exactly what it's supposed to.  Also, add a downhaul on the jib.  This attaches to the top hank when you set the sail.  When ready to douse, come slowly through the wind.  Start the sheet a bit if you've been closehauled, cast off the halyard and pull the downhaul.  The sail will flake completely on deck and making off the downhaul will prevent the jib from going back up the headstay.

More later.

[ThistleCap]

Before going on, I should add there's more than one way to skin a cat as they say.  Keeping it simple is great, but how you get there will vary from boat to boat, skipper to skipper.  As skipper, when it goes wrong, it will be your fault, so picking the best solution for you is your privilege.

6. When reefing, the reef points go between the foot and the boom, never around the boom, which is just one more reason to get the boltrope out of any groove on the boom.  The purpose of the boltrope (or tabbling) in the foot is the same as on the luff----it strengthens the sail where it takes its greatest strain and distributes the loads more evenly.  If the reef points go under the foot, the boltrope continues to do its job.  If they go around the boom, you've created hard spots in the sail that will cause stretch or tearing.  If your set-up requires you to go around the boom, keep them slack so they're only function is to hold up the bunt of the sail. 

7. Anchors, anchors, anchors, line, line, line.  You can't have too much of either.  When picking anchors, always go to the next larger size on the table.  Anchor tests are under  ideal and controlled conditions.  Real life is rarely ideal.  Carry several different types for different bottoms and different wind and sea states, each with its own rode and chain.  Forget a lunch hook.  Go with only working and storm anchors.  On a boat of under 30 ft. (unless of good displacement), carrying all chain rode is often impractical due to weight in the ends, but 25 ft. of proper sized chain on each rope rode is a good compromise.  Good ground tackle is your ultimate insurance policy.

8. No electric water pumps.  They kill the batteries and waste water.  Foot pumps are great, free the hands, and are reliable.

9. Manual high capacity bilge pump.  A good-sized diaphram in the cockpit is good, but it can be backed up with an Edson high-capacity gallon/stroke pump either permanently mounted or on a temporary board.  For ocean work, it can give you time to keep the water down while effecting other measures.  Study damage control.  Imagine flooding from every source possible and have a plan and materials for dealing with it.

10. Never have a water supply that you can't get to.   I've seen many tanks in the keel or elsewhere that are sealed, and the only way to extract the water was with a pump.  If the pump fails, you're in a bind.  Always have two portable water bottles that can leave the boat with you in an emergency, give you a means of getting water to the boat in remote areas with no marinas, and allow you better control over water quality for drinking.  I usually keep the water tanks pretty heavily shocked with chlorine to protect against questionable sources and keep algae at bay in tanks and lines.  It makes poor coffee, so the water bottles double for personal consumption.  Also, dishes should be rinsed in a little fresh water with chlorine for health, and raw vegetables should have a chlorine rinse.  Already having chlorine in the tank water saves having to mix it for each application.

11. A raw water manual pump or strong bucket is good for bathing, shaving, boat cleaning, washing dishes (unless known to be polluted), thus making the water supply last longer.

[newt]

Question: How difficult is it to get Kero nowdays. How about Lap oil?

[ThistleCap]

No problem at all.  Use only No. 1 to reduce smoking inside the boat.  Keeping lamps properly trimmed also eliminates nearly all smoke residue.  You can also use mineral spirits.  I usually just grab a bottle of smokeless lamp oil at Walmart when needed, and would use No. 1 for other applications, which is usually available at hardware stores and some gas stations from a pump, or by the gallon can from most paint, hardware, or home-improvement stores.  Gas stations that just pump gas won't have kero at a pump, but "service" stations often do, and more so the further north (in US) you go.

[ThistleCap]

12. Have good charts and plotting instruments and know how to use them.  Hand-bearing compass, 8 X 50 binoculars, taffrail log over electronics (getting harder to find), barometer.  You mentioned wanting to learn celestial.  There are lots of very expensive options.  The best quality training at the lowest price is U.S. Power Squadrons---piloting, seamanship, celestial, weather, cruise planning, compass adjusting, electronics, engine maintenance, you name it.

13.  Have a good spring line more than double the length of the boat and docking lines of at least the length of the boat.  A couple short ones can be added if you wish for floating piers.
An engine is a convenience only.  Between the sails, anchors, and spring line, there should be nowhere you can put a boat under power that you can't duplicate under sail.  This should be practiced regularly for the guaranteed day when the engine fails, or just for when you want to show off and tow in a disabled stinkpot, raft it alongside and put it against the pier all under sail.

14. Tiller is better than a wheel for simplicity and reliability, and also for making you a better sailor. (Oh, there go the screams again. )  An outboard rudder is better yet, but the designer may not have given you that option.

15. A windvane is better than an autopilot, although a portable electric pilot may be a nice addition for short-term use.  Learn to balance the boat and helm so she will sail herself without either.  Be sure your boat has a good traveler of proper size.

16. A four-part purchase tackle with the largest sheaves you can afford for taking yourself up the mast with a good bosun's chair.

17.  A hard dinghy is easier to handle, better for handling ground tackle when needed, safer on a rough shore, more durable, and can double as a sailing dinghy, but comes with the problem of stowage.  Some use nesting dinghies to overcome this problem while keeping the advantages of a hard dinghy.

18. Cabin (several) and anchor oil lamps with 1-inch flat wick.  Where electric lights are felt essential, like running lights or nav station, use LED's as you can afford them.

19. Figure self-reliance in electrical generation (wind generator, solar panel, deep-cycle batteries of proper capacity.  Never use more than 20%, or at most 25% of a battery's capacity if you're wanting them to last a long time.  If you need 100 amphrs, rather than a 100 amphr. battery, you really need 4-5 100 amphr. batteries to provide what you need.  The deeper the discharge cycle, the fewer cycles the battery will provide in its lifetime.

20. A gimballed stove of your choice with good fiddles that can also be locked in place.

21. One place to not skimp is on cushions---nothing less than 4-inches of firm foam, and maybe even a memory foam pillow top over the main sleeping berth.  KISS doesn't mean not getting a good night's sleep.  In colder conditions, an insulation layer between the cushion and berth top to prevent condensation.

[freeskier710]

wow!!! thank you ThistleCap, that was the type of information I was looking for, almost everything i could've asked for

[nowell]

My kero anchor lamp also is used as my deck light (just drop the halyard a bit) and it has a nice handle for when I need light to do my nightly patrols, or what not.

Here is another good idea for your KISS layout. Consider every time you have on board. Try and make sure it can serve at least 2 purposes and how you would use it. Make notes if you have to. It also helps you fill time when your bored at work  ;D

[freeskier710]

well i ordered some new books based on what you all have said and based on what i found elsewhere on the forum:

"The Cruising Life: A Commonsense Guide for the Would-Be Voyager"

"Sea-Steading: A Life of Hope and Freedom on the Last Viable Frontier"

"The Cost Conscious Cruiser"

"Self-Sufficient Sailor"

"The Capable Cruiser"

"Storm Tactics Handbook: Modern Methods of Heaving-to for Survival in Extreme Conditions, 3rd Edition"

anyone read any of these books? how do they rank in good information for a beginner???