How do you like to KISS? / Kiss principle --what do you think is necessary

[Mr. Fixit]

Looking for opinions as to what is necessary for Coastal/Carib cruising. I am trying to keep it simple. Some things I have already settled on are:
1. SSB, usual instruments -wind-depth-speed-handheld GPS
2. VHF  with hailer,  vhf ram mike-cockpit also hand held VHF
3. Airhead toilet
4. all chain rode, primary anchor-Delta 45# Danforth secondary
5  No pressure water,foot and hand pumps, foot for sea water, hand pumps that will take water from 6.5 gal containers.
6. Engel ref. 
7. 8' nesting dinghy-I have a 2 horse honda 4 strokethat i will take that along on stern rail-small Danford for dinghy
8. Single gimbaled propane burner-galley Cabelas propane stove on stern
9. laptop with wifi
10 safety, PFD,s flares, propane detector, selonoid, tether
the following I am not sure of,Microwave,forward looking sonar, heat, hot water ,radar ,plotter, any suggestions--thanks-30'boat Col.

[Tim]

I would add charts and necessary equipment for plotting to the above list.

Perhaps a radar reflector

[Lynx]

curtains
Auto pilot
More water, at least 30 gal per person. figure 2 gal per person per day until you get used to it.
enough fuel to go 300 miles into the wind
Comfortable bunk
Sunglasses
fans
Spaire anchors and rode.
dinghy anchor
Spaire parts.
good cushions
WiFi for computer
a good mail forwarding service. It will save you the cost.
manuals for all
Holding tank at 10 gal per person.
proper batter recharging for 2x expect power usage.
replacement parts.
Water sports gear
Fans, It was 80 yesterday, a must over the bunk and dinning room.
Turkey baster

Want my list? It is over 500 items and some are not KISS but it is nicer. Why make it hard on yourself if you do not have to.

[CharlieJ]

well- one thing from me personally- I HATE, abhor, detest. and kinda don't care for hand pumps. I use foot pumps for all. won't have pressure water aboard, no how, no way.

Here's a scenario- you have dirty hands so you want to wash them-

pump a bit of water over one hand to get it wet ( oh- now you have a dirty handle on the pump)

Put a tad of soap on the wet hand, wash the two hands, so now you have two clean, but soapy hands.

Pump a bit of water to rinse the one hand ( now ya got a dirty SOAPY handle) :-\

Switch hands and rinse the other one. Now your first hand has soap on it from the handle :-[

So you rinse the first one again, using that soapy pump handle ???

Exaggerated slightly I know, but give me a foot pump any day- with a two stroke pump like the Whale you can run a continuous stream, almost like a pressure pump has.

And from what I've seen the forward looking sonar is not yet worth buying for us. At best it'll give you warning JUST before you whack the bottom Besides, from what I hear and from my experiences in the keys, it'll take you less than a week to figure which color water means "Don't go there"

Some of the rest I wouldn't give room to but that's personal choice. Nothing wrong with having the stuff if you want it.

But one other thing- for my second anchor I'd carry a different TYPE than the primary. We carry three different types aboard when away from the Gulf coast on the theory that if the bottom is wrong for one kind, another should work..

[Tim]

well- one thing from me personally- I HATE, abhor, detest. and kinda don't care for hand pumps. I use foot pumps for all. won't have pressure water aboard, no how, no way.

Wheww! ::)  I am sooo glad I have dual foot pumps, just in case I have have Charlie aboard  ;D

[Mr. Fixit]

Thanks Lynx yes I will get a computer with wifi capability. I purchased one last year, a Itronix on E-bay however my grandson need a computer so I gave it to him. I am not very computer literate however once I am on the boat I will have time to experiment.I have a lot of repair manuals, Volvo, ssb, vhf etc. Is it possible to "scan" repair, parts manuals onto computer?I have a large pile already and I am sure there will be more. It would save a lot of space if I could do it.. Are most of the manuals available on line??. I expect to spend a lot of time on the hook, would prefer to have repair manuals available if off line.
I agree with Charlie about forward looking sonar, however I think it would be a nice feature to scope out anchorages. Since if I install it I would want to do it before I splash, due to the huge transducer that needs to be installed. I do not know if they can be used at the same time as a depth sounder, i think they are on the same frequency

[Lynx]

I was thinking about getting a forwared looking sonar last year and was advised gainst it. If you have a cat and go with the dual sensor it moght be better but so far the technology is not quite up to snuff. the sensor is 2 1/2 or 3 inches. Not much good in the top 3 feet of water and if the boat is bobing, not much good.

Singlehanding, I use a stern anchor and deploy from the cockpit. Just back up and then drop it. Hook a yoke and as long as the seas are not to bad you are fine.  NICE breeze in the cockpit. No problem with the heat of cooking. If the seas get bad, just run a line to the bow and release. There will be over 200 pounds of force on that line, beware.

Did you mention safety equipment?

[Mr. Fixit]

Lynx wrote did you mention safety equiptment--No I have purchased PFD's, however lack most of the things I need (2 type 1's) have several type 2's
Have flares. need propane sensore and selonoid valve. I will probably install Carbon  monoxide detector.. I also need tethers may make them not sure yet.. Time  for another list to Defender---not sure what to get for mob sitiuation. I am sure someone will be able to give me good advice---If only the boats GIRTH would have increased the way mine has with age--I will not buy a bigger boat!! storage is becomming a problem.!!!

[CharlieJ]

Laura and I considered making our own tethers. Then we priced the recommended snap hooks for the ends.. Turns out we'd have saved only a very few bucks, cause the hooks cost almost as much as the whole tether. So we bought ready made.

Now a HARNESS is very different. In fact in the Sailrite book on canvas work there's a plan for a very good harness you can make. There are other plans out there also, many good, some that suck. So get a good one, like Sailrites..

[Lynx]

Tethers are a hot subject. I use the old 1/2 inch 50 foot dock line tied to the mast trick. That way I can go anywhere in the boat without taking it off and above deck as well and I do not get trapped in the bow wave. I use it at the dock to. How to get back on board is another problem but at least I will be close to the boat. Most MOB's are never practiced.

Good luck on some of those sensors. I opted not to have them due to to many false alarms reports and my boat has a vent. If the winds dies totally down for most of the night, I might be in a problem. That is what fans are for. 

[Frank]

A bit 'out of the loop' so not sure if this was mentioned...but ya NEED a didger IMHO. Dodger,good anchor and good dingy. :)

[TJim]

Most people have an opinion and I'm about as opinionated as they come.  I don't
believe you can buy a proper tether for the kind of boats that most people on this board are sailing.  I believe that a harness/tether system should be designed to keep you from going overboard where you can be dragged, drowned and  unable to get yourself back aboard.  I was never able to find a tether less than 6' or 2 meters long.  That tether will not keep you from going over on a Triton or a Meridian.  I have three harnesses aboard and all have tethers that have been shortened to 4 feet.  I have jack lines that run freely down both sides of my boat as close to the center as I can get them.  With an 8.33' beam, I can reach everything I need to get to with a 4' tether.

[Tim]

I am with you on that Jim.   If I went over the life lines with a 6' tether I would be playing the hull like a drum with my head.  :o I want to make sure I stay inside of the lines.

[Captain Smollett]

enough fuel to go 300 miles into the wind

Though opinions on this differ wildly, I personally do not consider this a necessity for a sail boat.

If the course is upwind, I would beat in conditions that allow it and heave-to until better if conditions don't.  I view the mechanical propulsion a short-term, short distance solution (in and out of anchorages, along narrow channels, etc).

Looking for opinions as to what is necessary for Coastal/Carib cruising. I am trying to keep it simple. Some things I have already settled on are:
1. SSB, usual instruments -wind-depth-speed-handheld GPS
2. VHF  with hailer,  vhf ram mike-cockpit also hand held VHF
3. Airhead toilet
4. all chain rode, primary anchor-Delta 45# Danforth secondary
5  No pressure water,foot and hand pumps, foot for sea water, hand pumps that will take water from 6.5 gal containers.
6. Engel ref.
7. 8' nesting dinghy-I have a 2 horse honda 4 strokethat i will take that along on stern rail-small Danford for dinghy
8. Single gimbaled propane burner-galley Cabelas propane stove on stern
9. laptop with wifi
10 safety, PFD,s flares, propane detector, selonoid, tether
the following I am not sure of,Microwave,forward looking sonar, heat, hot water ,radar ,plotter, any suggestions--thanks-30'boat Col.

As mentioned, each of us will have our own point where necessity crosses the line and becomes luxury.

If asked what from your list I have/will have on MY boat, I'd make the following remarks:

"Usual instruments" like wind speed indicator would be left out.  I go hot and cold on the speed indicator and electronic depth sounder.  On the knot-meter, I found a company that USED to make a self-powered knot-meter/log (I really care about having a log moreso than the knot-meter...I don't care so much how fast I'm going as how far I've been for ded reckoning), but the unit has been discontinued.  So, I MAY end up going with a powered unit.  I've thought about a traditional towed patent log.  On depth, I have a depth sounder, but the transducer is not mounted; may mount it, may not.  Dunno.  I do use a lead line, though.

SSB - again, hot and cold.  I like the simplicity of NOT having one, but see the advantages, especially of a receiver.

All chain rode vs. chain+nylon is a personal choice, I guess.  Right now, I carry 60 ft of hi-test chain plus about 250 ft of nylon on my primary.  I don't currently have windlass, so that's a factor as well.

Engel: don't currently have any refridgeration on board...use a passive ice box.  I'm currently working on improving the insulation of the factory box; last fall, 18 qt block of ice lasted 7 days in 90+ degree days.  As much of the positives as I've heard about Engels, though, it's a hard argument to make.

Microwave, sonar, radar, hot water, chart plotter: NO WAY.  Too much juice, too much stuff to worry about maintaining.

[CharlieJ]

ok- here we go.

On Tehani we judge boat speed by the waves astern and the sound the boat is making. After a while you get pretty good. After we've been on the boat a while we can judge within a half knot most times.  As to exactly how fast, I really don't much care. We have a hand held GPS running usually hooked to ships power, so that gives us mileage, which as Smollet says, is what I really care about.


We have a depth sounder with the transducer fitted to shoot through the hull. It works great til you get into shallow water, then goes nuts. It's a small fish finder type- a Humminbird and refuses to read in under three feet. Well heck- that's when I want it most. We've always carried a lead line and used it many many times feeling our way into an anchorage in our travels tween here and Florida and back. Me on the bow heaving the lead and Laura running the boat.

I plan to get a multi band SSB receiver to listen to weather, music and perhaps to the cruiser nets. No transmitter planned. Have a VHF installed, with a masthead antenna and since I got one for Christmas, a hand held VHF, which I found to be pretty nice. But no requirement for sure. The main radio mounted in the cabin does just as well.

For hot water we use a solar shower, but I'm thinking of getting one of the pump up solar showers from Duckworks. It's just a garden sprayer but it's modified by the maker to be a shower- tank is black and it isn't expensive.  We like the solar shower but the sprayer is gonna be much more durable. NO WAY would I have a shower inside the boat on a boat as small as ours. I refused one on my 35 foot tri when we lived aboard full time too- great way to grow mildew. We shower in the cockpit or on the fore deck. If it's to chilly for that, a sponge bath below does the job.

On our bower we carry 75 feet of G4 chain and 200 feet of nylon. Anywhere in the keys, or the Bahamas that's effectively an all chain rode. Backup anchors have 25 feet of chain and then nylon. In fact, all up and down the east coast I never had to use more chain than that. I've had all 75 feet out twice since we've cruised the  boat.

We use ice in an icebox- it's well enough insulated to keep a 15 pound block for 9 days on the gulf coast in June. We use it for drinks, not food. Most of the regulars on here already know we carry no foods that require refrigeration, except for maybe the first couple of days of a cruise. If we can't get ice, then we do without. No real hardship once you figure out how.

Radar, microwave, sonar, etc I can live without. A micro wave would be nice occasionally but we don't have the juice to drive  it, so we won't have it.

I can't see the screens on the small plotters well enough, we ALWAYS have paper charts aboard, plus down loaded charts on the lap top, so I won't have a plotter. We carry a pair of Garmin hand helds ( non-mapping) and when we leave for prolonged cruises, we'll more than likely pick up one more to stow as an OOPS backup. Laura sets up routes, waypoints, etc on the laptop then downloads the entire thing to the GPS, so both of them are identical

We now have LED lighting in the cabin and one incandescent over the galley, but she's just as happy with the oil lamps inside, as am I. We're pretty frugal with amps. In fact we used to go 12 - 14 days on cruises with a single Grp 27 battery and no charging capability. Now we have a solar panel, so by and large we always have plenty.

we do have self powered music making capabilities- an MP3 player and some cd's Laura has burned of our favorite music. That can be hooked to ships power or self powered either way.

Those are my thoughts. They may get sorta modified by Laura, and that's all right, but she really likes us being a simple boat and firmly believes in the KISS principle also. Maybe she'll add her thoughts to this thread.

And if someone wants a towed patent log, I happen to have a brand new, never been used, still in the box one for sale.

[Tim]

Well Charlie, it sounds like we are set up similarly.  I am going to try a Humminbird digital sounder (not a fish finder) in an effort to get better shallow water readings.

Another thing I am looking into is a GPS receiver to plug right into the laptop to double as a plotter, if it works  with Blue Charts.  I have no other sophisticated Navware and probably won't, as I like working with charts. I do have a Garmin Map 76cs as my GPS

I will be getting more chain for the Ariel as the PO took the primary anchor with him. I will probably get a 22# Claw, that along with my 15# Plow and small Danforth should have me covered.

I am going with the Pett waste bag setup for a toilet. The PO took out the head and glassed over the thru hulls already. There just isn't enough room in these boats for a separate head and I can't stand sleeping in the same room. The Pett setup will allow me to set up in the cockpit for the daily constitutional if necessary.

Solar shower is what we have been using but am interested in the Duckworths shower.

All my lighting will be LED or kerosene, so expect my two batteries will keep me well supplied.

[maxiSwede]

I can second CharlieJ's post.

I like to keep it simple. = hanked on sails, all lines at the mast (good old steady&sturdy boat, remember?)  Handheld GPS (got 3 of them now) 1 at the nav table on ship's power, another for use occassionally in the cockpit with dry batteries. Paper charts + laptop with electronic charts. (mostly used for passage planning and route planning.) As for logs and windspeedmeters. It's easy to train ones senses and make a good estimate, much more reliable and maintenance free... ;D

I do have a radar since a year back. I hate sailing in fog. I guess one could easily do without in the tropics, but at high latitudes fog comes quick and thick at times. The radar consumes 2 Amps, true, but I do not use it for longer periods very often, plus fog often comes with weak winds (at least around here) so most of the time it's used, the iron genny provides all the juice needed.

The latest bargains (e-bay) is a plastic sextant (one has to play with something during those looong passages) and a Humminbird fishfinder. Since I have a cored hull, i am playing with the idea of installing the sensor on a pole to be lashed to a stanchion when needed... Comments on that ,someone?  ???

[Captain Smollett]

i am playing with the idea of installing the sensor on a pole to be lashed to a stanchion when needed... Comments on that ,someone?  ???

That's how mine is "currently" rigged.  What this amounts to is that I tend to not use it.  I've got a trip planned for sometime in the next month or so that will require some thin water navigation (if at anything other than high tide), so I might break it out for that.

[maxiSwede]

i am playing with the idea of installing the sensor on a pole to be lashed to a stanchion when needed... Comments on that ,someone?  ???

That's how mine is "currently" rigged.  What this amounts to is that I tend to not use it.  I've got a trip planned for sometime in the next month or so that will require some thin water navigation (if at anything other than high tide), so I might break it out for that.

Are you getting correct readings? I like the idea of installing the 'sonar pole' as far forward as possible to get at least some of that 'forward vision' they claim in the adds.

[Captain Smollett]

Are you getting correct readings? I like the idea of installing the 'sonar pole' as far forward as possible to get at least some of that 'forward vision' they claim in the adds.

Seems to work okay, the little bit I've used it. I aim it straight down, just under the water, and typically it's been at a stanchion right at the cockpit.  I have not used it much, though.