Wireing

[Zen]

I have several project upcoming since I will be out of work shortly. I took a look in  my enigine compartment, the other day when using up my sick days :-)

I want to rewire this mess you can see in the pix. Any suggestions?

Starter wire, coil, misc...

[Lynx]

Marine grade, at least 1 size up,  put a loop in the middle, leave uncut until terminated and SUPPORT, SUPPORT, SUPPORT. When finished, it should look like art.

Seal up terminals well.

[Tim]

Along with Lynx advise I would say "keep it simple" as possible. Draw up a good circuit diagram beforehand and label you wires beforehand also. I am going to start my rewire of my Ariel this week also and will document it on the Ariel site, and maybe a link from this thread.
Tim

[AdriftAtSea]

Diagramming it and planning it is a very good idea.  It might also be a good idea to mock up the cable runs to see how long they actually are, so you can figure out whether the wiring needs to be a heavier gauge or not...

[Pappy Jack]

Zen,

Why not pay a pro a gazillion bucks to do it right the first time ;D ;D ;D? The frustration level would be nil and you could profess ignorance if somebody else asked you to help them do it ::). Well...  that's what I'd do :-*.

Fair winds,

Pappy (LOL) Jack

[AdriftAtSea]

I wouldn't recommend getting someone else to do it... unless you're 100% sure that they'll do the job properly.  Doing it yourself, will in the long run, have far less frustration and give you a much better understanding of how the thing is setup... and then when you're in the middle of nowhere and something breaks, your chance of fixing it goes way, way, way up.


PS... I'm pretty sure Pappyjack is being a wiseass and playing devils advocate. :)

[skylark]

That looks like a sloppy wiring job.  Before you start tearing it out with plans to redo it, see how much can be salvaged.  As long as there are no burn marks on the wire, and the wire size is sufficient, try putting up wire supports to organize the wires which are long enough to be routed in a decent way.

Check to make sure all the positive wires have fuses, except the starter.

Get a roll of red and a roll of black wire.  Replace one wire at a time, completing the connection before moving to the next wire.

[Mr. Fixit]

A good quality crimping tool is handy. All I used for years  was a cheap tool that was not adjustable, now I have a tool that U can adjust-I really like it, not necessary but nice. I prefer to use non-insulated terminals with heat shrink (adhesive lined). I was not able to buy this locally had to order thru internet along with marine grade wire. I could have ordered wire locally thru a commercial dist. however they would only order 500' rolls--I ended up ordering thru "Bestboat wire"--dont be shocked when you see current prices for copper. I to believe in "oversizing" tends to be more forgiving as installation ages. I wonder if the current slowdown (economic) will bring prices down. I am currently working on a project at a college installing RPZ's and flood valves on the domestic water service to the Bldgs. Wholesale price for 3"type" L" copper tubing $25 dollars a foot.--when will it end!!!!

[Lynx]

Your runs are so short that the additional cost of oversize wiring is not much. The major problem is that if/when you get any problems at the terminals the oversize wiring will take it longer than the more correct voltage drop/amp size.

The beauty of small boats is that up'ing to the next size is not that much more expensive.

[CapnK]

Re: crimping:

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/wire_termination

Good guide.

[AdriftAtSea]

CapnK-

That's Ron's site... he's a very good egg and has very good information on his site.. He sails a Canadian Seacraft 36T IIRC.  He recently did a test of the strength of a properly crimped connection... in one photo he has 95 lbs. of anchors hanging off of a crimped butt spliced piece of 14 AWG wire. :)

[Zen]

Wholesale price for 3"type" L" copper tubing $25 dollars a foot.--when will it end!!!!

:o

[Zen]

Good site , good information about crimping that will come in handy. I did notice that in the photo he said the tool is bad to use with insulated clip becuase it damages it. The wrong section was being used  8)   

:D

[Zen]

Hmmmm, well how about donating that money to my refitting fund  ;D

Zen,

Why not pay a pro a gazillion bucks to do it right the first time ;D ;D ;D? The frustration level would be nil and you could profess ignorance if somebody else asked you to help them do it ::). Well...  that's what I'd do :-*.

Fair winds,

Pappy (LOL) Jack

[Zen]

Sounds like you are saying use one size for everything ?  ???

That looks like a sloppy wiring job.  Before you start tearing it out with plans to redo it, see how much can be salvaged.  As long as there are no burn marks on the wire, and the wire size is sufficient, try putting up wire supports to organize the wires which are long enough to be routed in a decent way.

Check to make sure all the positive wires have fuses, except the starter.

Get a roll of red and a roll of black wire.  Replace one wire at a time, completing the connection before moving to the next wire.

[Lynx]

No, no. But a rull reel of wire is cheeper than 1/2 a reel per foot. IF you need 500 feet of runs then it would be cheeper to use larger wire up to # 12 or # 10 for all of your runs than to try to do small runs or smaller different sizes of wire. You would also not be able to up the amprage when you add something extra. You can also resell the rest.

Always use marine grade, tin coated.

[Zen]

ah sooo, got it!  ;D

[AdriftAtSea]

BTW, ABYC standards recommend that you support the wire every 18" at a minimum...

[skylark]

Sounds like you are saying use one size for everything ?  ???

I didn't remember the ABYC standards so I didn't want to say when I posted that.  The minimum wire gauge required for each circuit depends on the load in amps and the distance of wire in the circuit.  I think I did most of the runs in my boat with 12 gauge but I'm not sure about that, you should check the ABYC chart.  There will be heavier gauge wire between the battery and the fusebox.  Probably the VHF needs heavier gauge wire too.

Look at the chart at the bottom of this page:
http://www.acbsphl.org/Tips_and_hints/ABYC_Wiring.htm

I wish they would not fool around with the circular mil calculation but rather just give a constant for each wire gauge.  But that is the way it is usually calculated.

The left column shows the wire gauge, and the right two columns show how many amps that wire size can carry.  The engine room thing is about heat, wire is not rated for as much amps when it is hot, or better said it fails earlier when hot.  Double the actual amps that you will be running on the circuit, and get the wire gauge to meet that ampacity, and you should be OK.

You probably can get by with 14 or 16 gauge for circuits with lights and other low amp loads.

[AdriftAtSea]

A few points from the ABYC E-11 specifications on electrical wiring.

"Conductors shall be at least 16 AWG. EXCEPTIONS: 1. 18 AWG conductors may be used if included with other conductors in a sheath and do not extend more than 30 inches (760mm) outside the sheath." 11.16.1.1.2."

"Conductors used for panelboard or switchboard main feeders, bilge blowers, electronic equipment, navigation lights, and other circuits where voltage drop must be kept to a minimum, shall be sized for a voltage drop not to exceed three percent".

"Conductors used for lighting, other than navigation lights, and other circuits where voltage drop is not critical, shall be sized for a voltage drop not to exceed 10 percent."

"Solderless crimp on connectors shall be attached with the type of crimping tools designed for the connector used, and that will produce a connection meeting the requirements of E-11.16.3.3." 11.16.3.8."

"Current-carrying conductors shall be routed as high as practicable above the bilge water level and other areas where water may accumulate. If conductors must be routed in the bilge or other areas where water may accumulate, the connections shall be watertight."11.16.4.1.6."

"Terminal connectors shall be the ring or captive spade types." 11.16.3.4."

"Twist on connectors, i.e., wire nuts, shall not be used." 11.16.3.6."

"Ring and captive spade type terminal connectors shall be the same nominal size as the stud." 11.16.4.1.12."

"The construction of insulated cables and conductors shall conform with the requirements of: 11.16.1.2.2.1. UL 1426, Cables for Boats..."11.16.1.2.2."

"Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit."11.16.3.7."

BTW, these were posted by Ron, of the Maine Sailing link above, on another forum. :)