Wireing

[Zen]

 :o

Hmmmmmmmmm,

After reading ...most...of all that. Having a professional doing it does not sound so expensive  ;D

[skylark]

I think there is a little marine elitism going on with the mainecruising link.

I used a crimping tool like this:



This is a quality tool and it works fine. You should be able to find one under $20. 

You can get good results using el cheapo crimpers but you have to be very careful how you place the terminal into the crimper, and then you may have slide the crimper down and crimp it a second time. 

I think he has a good point about quality terminals.  They make crimping easier and will last much longer.

One thing you can do to prevent corrosion is to spray a little dielectric grease in the terminal before putting the wire in and crimping it.

[Lynx]

I do not see any voltage drop calculations or long term derateing. Any runs of amps more than 10 amps and longer than 7 feet, let us know and we can help you.

It is not really that hard with short runs. You need to learn it anyway.

Anybody recommend any good marine electrical wiring books?

(just to let you know, the formals have been worked out from what did not work and not from theory. The EXPERTS just want you to think that they know it all when in fact there is much mystery still about electricity)

[AdriftAtSea]

Lynx—

The top two I'd recommend are:

• Don Casey's Complete Illustrated Sailboat Maintenance Manual, which is basically six books in one.
• Nigel Calder's Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual.

Skylark—

I'd recommend against the cheap crimpers.  It is a lot harder to get consistently good quality crimps out of the cheap tools.  If you look at the photos that are on the Mainesailing site, you'd see a definite qualitative difference in the quality of the crimped connections.  The ones done with a good ratcheting crimper are cold-welded, the ones done with a cheap crimper are not. A good ratcheting crimp tool will last years...

From the maine sailing site... ratcheting crimp tool crimp on left, cheap crimp tool crimp on right—definitely a visible difference.




Get high quality heat-shrink or insulated crimp fittings and the wiring will last a lot longer.  FMZ or Ancor are two good brands.

[skylark]

Well the one on the left doesn't appear to have any metal around it, so I would say the crimp on the right is the better crimp.

There is a difference between functional and pretty.

[Zen]

Cool!
ok recap so far:

The TAO of boat wiring

1. Strong roots nourish tall trees
  (Invest in good crimping tools )   ( do not use pliers )


2. It is better to error in caution
  (Use a couple of steps up on the rating on the wire.)

3. All things have a purpose, even if unseen
  (Use marine class wire and terminals. )( no left over house stuff )

4. From one grows one thousand
   (Use supports at intervals of 11" min. ) ( 11 or 18 hmm need to look that up)

8)

-------all to go on my flea market(s) shopping list

[AdriftAtSea]

Skylark-

The one on the left looks like one piece because the copper crimp fitting is basically cold-welded to the copper wire in it.  Air and water can't get into the crimp itself, since it's now effectively a single solid piece.  If you look very closely at the photo, you'll notice a thin border around the outer 20% or so, most noticeable in the lower left edge of the crimped wire, which is what was the crimp fitting. 

Well the one on the left doesn't appear to have any metal around it, so I would say the crimp on the right is the better crimp.

There is a difference between functional and pretty.

[AdriftAtSea]

Zen-

Use the 3% voltage drop table to figure out what size wire is required, and then go up one wire size.  If it says 10 AWG, go with 8 AWG... this is basically cheap insurance...since the wire will be unlikely to be the weak link in an shorted wire situation, increasing the chance for the breaker to trip properly before igniting.

[Pappy Jack]

Adrift,

You're correct ;). I was being a wise ass AND the Devil's advocate but rest assured that I'm taking notes on this subject 'cause I think that I'll be doing a rewiring job on my boat in the near future and I'll need all the help I can get :'(

Fair winds,

Pappy Jack

[Captain Smollett]

Cool!
ok recap so far:

The TAO of boat wiring

1. Strong roots nourish tall trees
  (Invest in good crimping tools )   ( do not use pliers )


2. It is better to error in caution
  (Use a couple of steps up on the rating on the wire.)

3. All things have a purpose, even if unseen
  (Use marine class wire and terminals. )( no left over house stuff )

4. From one grows one thousand
   (Use supports at intervals of 11" min. ) ( 11 or 18 hmm need to look that up)

Very cool.  Grog for that.

[Zen]

I am replacing the ShorePower outlet on my boat. The old one, the original is a two prong connection. The new is Three.  I can see the Hot wire and the ground that will be easy to just switch since it is already there. A no brainer I guess. The question is where to  run the Neutral wire? I read do not connect the ground and the neutral together at the same place. So where does it go?

BTW

Happy Easter!

[AdriftAtSea]

The neutral wire normally goes to a breaker on the main AC panel, which usually has two 30 Amp breakers ganged.  One is for the "hot" line and connects to the other breakers, the other is the Neutral and goes to a bus bar or terminal strip, which the neutral wires of the AC circuits all connect to.

I'll post a diagram in a bit to clarify it.

Here's the diagram, I hope it helps. :)



The main Shorepower AC panel on my boat has two buss strips or bars on it for the ground and neutral lines to connect to.  I have a secondary AC panel on the boat that is for the Inverter's AC output.  It only has a single breaker for the feed breaker.

[Zen]

Thanks Dan, I see. That is helpful I will compare it to what I have. Seems like I will need to change panels and rewire as well.

[Lynx]

Not really, Just connect the neutral to the ground. or you could just make a ground buss. Easy, a lot of new panels these come loose. No need to buy a new panel just yet unless the old one is trash.

[skylark]

The intent of a neutral wire is to tie the housings of electrical appliances to the neutral.  If something goes wrong in the appliance, and the hot shorts out to the housing, the neutral will short it out and blow a fuse, cutting off the power to the appliance and saving the user from touching a hot housing.

A neutral wire is tied to the ground wire at the shoreside main* circuit breaker.  There should be no connection between ground and neutral except at the circuit breaker.  This is to prevent the neutral from ever carrying current except in a fault situation.

*added later for clarity

[AdriftAtSea]

Don't tie the Neutral and Ground lines together.  Use separate busses for the Ground and Neutral lines. 

From the ABYC standards:

A grounded neutral system is required. The neutral for AC power sources shall be grounded only at the following points:

The shore power neutral is grounded through the shore power cable and shall not be grounded on board the boat.

The secondary neutral of an isolation transformer or polarization transformer shall be grounded at the secondary of an isolation or polarization transformer.

The generator neutral shall be grounded at the generator.

The inverter output neutral shall be grounded at the inverter. The inverter output neutral shall be disconnected from ground when the inverter is operating in the charger or the feed-through mode(s).

When more than one shore power inlet is used, the shore power neutrals shall not be connected together on board the boat.

And makes the following exception:

For systems using an isolation transformer or polarization transformer, both the generator or inverter neutral and the transformer secondary neutrals may be grounded at the AC main grounding bus instead of at the generator, inverter, or transformer secondary.

[AdriftAtSea]

The Ground and Neutral Buss bars don't have to be on the AC breaker panel itself AFAIK, it just happens that the new panel I got for the Shorepower setup on my boat has them setup that way.  I'm recycling the old panel for the main Inverter AC panel.

Thanks Dan, I see. That is helpful I will compare it to what I have. Seems like I will need to change panels and rewire as well.

[Zen]

Ok just returned form the boat. Mine has no breakers, just a connection for the two wires, then another connection leads off of that for the boat system. Almost like If you ran an extention  cord to a two prong connection and plugged in another cord. They did not know that much about grounding I guess back in the mid 60's.
This may turn into a big rewiring project.

[Lynx]

What are you trying to do with 110V?

What people are saying is correct with the separate buss however both are connected to the same panel with metal screws. If your demands are not much and most of what you have does not have a ground then it should be OK to have a new separate ground buss in the panel. There is usually an exception on this in most codes that say to put in a mew ground buss.

[AdriftAtSea]

Zen—

Sailor's Solutions has a good small AC main panel that should work for you.  It has five breakers on it... four effective, since the top two are ganged for the AC input and one handles the neutral, one the hot line.  The two of the other breakers are 15A, and the third is user choice of 15A or 30A. 



It's the same one I'm using for the Shorepower AC panel on my boat.