Discussion of HP required to move sailboats....

[maxiSwede]

Good Posting Charlie!  :)

I couldn't agree more. Spring lines are probably not used a lot among small boat sailors, but can make all the difference with some wind or current in close quarters. I have gotten to really appreciate them with my current boat (Röde Orm) which is a Challenge to maneouver due to it's weight and looong keel.

Haven't really figured out how to work with the spring lines when single-handing though  ???

[CharlieJ]

Sometimes you can double the line, leading it back to the boat- then when you need to, you cast it off and haul it in from around the cleat or bollard on the dock or pier.

And sometimes you just have to dinghy an anchor out and kedge yourself into clear water, then haul the anchor when ready. I had to do that several times while living on my 35 foot tri. Pinned to a dock by winds, you just aren't getting it off another way sometimes.

And every once in a while, you just have to stay put til things improve ;)

[Tim]

Good Posting Charlie!  :)

I couldn't agree more. Spring lines are probably not used a lot among small boat sailors, but can make all the difference with some wind or current in close quarters. I have gotten to really appreciate them with my current boat (Röde Orm) which is a Challenge to maneouver due to it's weight and looong keel.

Haven't really figured out how to work with the spring lines when single-handing though  ???

Although not necessarrily using spring lines, here is a series of photos of Che being backed out of her slip single handed.

[maxiSwede]

Grog on you Tim!  ;D

On the third pic you seem to be very close to a swim though  ;) Doubt that an average 65 y o would have made it onboard there...

[Zen]

Ok , how about some info on that dodger!!!!!???

[/quote]

Although not necessarrily using spring lines, here is a series of photos of Che being backed out of her slip single handed.


[/quote]

[Tim]

LOL  :)  Actually that is a set of pics from the PO, who is...well let's just say a bit younger than I ...

and to be honest he is not using the stern line the way I would to control the aft.

I have on a few occasions taken my boats out the same way using just the bow and stern lines, and timed the jump, but you do need a calm day with no current for it to be safe.

[Tim]

Ok , how about some info on that dodger!!!!!???

This was a major mod by the PO, documented on the Ariel site at;
http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?t=1120&page=5

I am now doing finish work on the underside of it and will post pics on that same thread when I can.
I can say I am quite happy with the look and performance of it.

[Zen]

NicE work!

The Force 10 Drop In Two Burner is ALSO NICE!!!!

Ok , how about some info on that dodger!!!!!???

This was a major mod by the PO, documented on the Ariel site at;
http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?t=1120&page=5

I am now doing finish work on the underside of it and will post pics on that same thread when I can.
I can say I am quite happy with the look and performance of it.

[Gus]

I do the same thing when I'm casting off from a pier that I can actually walk (I hate finger piers) Bow line in one hand, stern line in the other, push the boat out of the slip, turned it over, and jump on it, coming back to dock its another story (bumper cars anyone?)

Gus

[Ol' Coot]

Hmmm... ???  I have a 6700 lb boat with an 11 hp diesel.  It will power dead into a 30 knot wind, although not with any great speed.  Enough to get me up a tight channel, or through an inlet, or into harbor when necessary.  That seems to be sufficient for me. :)

[AdriftAtSea]

Diesels generally have an advantage over outboards on sailboats, since they're generally able to fit a larger prop that is more suited to pushing the heavy loads of a sailboat.  A 20 HP outboard can fit a 10" prop or so as a maximum... not really sufficient surface area to deal with a 3000+ lb. boat.... much less one that displaces over twice that...so you tend to get a lot of slippage from the prop. 

[newt]

Wow what a neat topic...
When I single hand, I usually look for a wind forward of the beam to get out my slip, although those pictures fire my imagination on how I could work with an aft wind.  I also like the wind in front when I come back into the slip...I have a old dock line tied on the front of my slip, and I come in slowly and apply pressure to the line, then jump out and tie in to the cleats. This is usually under OB power. I find if I just have the OB idling, it applies enough pressure to the front dock line to keep the boat still. At most foriegn docks there is usually someone there to help (if I come during the day)
But...
i usually don't have any type of tide- just wind. So I am sure you guys are better at this than I am. The pictures above are impressive.::)
newt

[Lynx]

There is a newer Outboard that has a larger prop with a lower speed prop. Mercury calls it "Bigfoot". My 50 hp. has a 14 inch prop.

The Smallest Merc bigfoot I believe is 15 hp.

[AdriftAtSea]

Lynx-

Cool... I'll have to take a look at them.

[s/v Faith]

Ahhh.......

 

After taking the Ariel out today again (where I also have a long motor out to where there is wind) I feel fairly confident that the 5hp Honda is going to be plenty, especially if I change the prop out for a displacement prop.

Tim

  The voice of reason.....  ;)

[Captain Smollett]

On the topic of HP required to move sailboats...

On our trip to/from Oriental a few weeks ago, I mentioned outboard issues that I THOUGHT at the time was some bad gas...the issue arose immediately after refilling the ob tank with newly purchased fuel  while underway.    That is, we were motoring fine and the tank was getting low, so I refilled from a can, and about 5 minutes later the engine dropped rpms.  In Oriental, I drained the bowl and she ran fine for a while, then dropped out again.  So, I made the assumption "fuel."

However, I finally go to do some checking on the engine, and the ignition module has gone bad and was not firing one cylinder.

So, we motored back from Oriental, over 20 miles, on one cylinder.  An 8 HP outboard running only one cylinder (so 4 hp?) pushed our 9000 lb boat 4.3 knots.

[matt195583]

All this talk of outboards and power has got me thinking . What the devil was the PO of my boat thinking when he put a 10hp 2 stroke merc on a 2000lb boat ?  ??? It is way over powered, Catalina recommends a 4-6. The 10hp is pretty heavy about 60lb's and at hull speed the throttle is barely off the start mark .

I have considered selling the 10hp and buying a 5hp four stroke  as the 10hp is only 4 years old I would probably get enough for it to pay for a new 5hp. The only thing that has got me thinking it might not be a great idea is what I've read about vibration from single cylinder engines . And the fact that i cant find a 2 cylinder OB under 8 HP 

[mrb]

Matt

Before you trade that 10 hp for a 5 a couple thin gs you may want to think of.

Do you have a Catalina 22  no ref to motor but weight considerations.

A older 10 2 cycle probably has forward and reverse gear and maybe even elec. start which means some generation power.  A lot of people will correctly say that generation power is not that much but in my experience it is enough to keep your nav. lights and radio with common sense use of a cabin light running for cruising. No micro wave or refrigeration and multiple other electronics some must have on board.  Also if it does have the elec. start that often makes sailing mates of the fairer type happy if they have to ever start engine in case you can not for whatever reason.

Light weight of 5 hp 4 cycle is nice but it almost never has more than forward with reverse being shifting into neutral pivoting engine around then shifting into gear. Some people are not comfortable with that sequence of operation.  Never heard of electric start or any type of power generating capability.

As far as power requirements to move boat both will do just fine.  On the 10 probable never use more than 1/4 throttle, low noise and viberation.  The  five again plenty of power, might have to run at higher throttle maybe a little more noise and viberation. 

For fuel usage the 4 cycle will edge out the 2 cycle and less pollution.  Nice not having to mix fuel.

All in my HOP

[Captain Smollett]

And the fact that i cant find a 2 cylinder OB under 8 HP 

FWIW, I've got a 6 HP that is a two cylinder.  It's a 1979 Johnson 2 stroke.

I don't know about newer offerings that meet that spec, but smaller engines in two cylinders are out there...

[Tim]

Thanks John for starting up this motor discussion again,  ;) Nothing better in getting the blood warmed up on a winters evening  ;D

mrb, I use a 5hp Honda 4stroke that has a forward and reverse gear.  I grant you that 2 strokes can be lighter, but likely not as fuel efficient as 4strokes.

For my Ariel the weight of the 5hp is just about right and I would not want anything heavier.  Power wise it will get her to hull speed at about half throttle or less, and with a displacement prop get her outta the hole easily I believe.

I have a generator head on it but don't believe it will do much more than maintain my batteries while using minimal instruments, and that would be at a fairly high RPM.