Walden at Sea

[newt]

Reading what different people are spending to cruise lead me to ask a question: What is the least amount of money that you can cruise with assuming that you keep your health and your boat in good working order? I am sure Jim B. and a few others got by for a few hundred or less a month... What is the least amount of  money that is required to be a nautical gypsy?
Granted you would have to be very careful of your port of calls.
You would not go through any expensive canals.
And you would probably have to have a smaller inexpensive boat.
You would probably do all your own maintenance , trade skills with sailors for charts and other needs and live off the sea and your ingenuity.
Sounds crazy, but for those of us caught in the rat race- it would be pretty cool. :D

[ronc98]

I wonder the same thing.  When I finally get to set sail it will be on a super tight budget.

[CapnK]

Hung out with a cool guy last night, a transient on his way back from the BVI, singlehanding his 40' Panda. His view, like many folks here have expressed/experienced, is that the cheap way to cruise, is to stay out of marinas. :)

He was telling me about a couple he met/knew who've just completed their circumnavigation. They took 6 years to make it around E to W, and stayed in marinas TWICE in the whole trip. And one of those times was because they had a job at that marina. :)

They did have some other times when they were hauled for maintenance, but by choice, and other than that, only those 2 marina stays. I bet that extended their cruising time by several months, with what they saved doing it that way...

[David_Old_Jersey]

What is the least amount of  money that is required to be a nautical gypsy?

Short answer is that I do not know.......

Long answer? Well, my plan for 2009 is to spend 3 months on the Boat trying to live on...........a Dollar a Day  :o......will I succeed?........of course not!.......but the reason for trying is to learn about me and my boat and how cheaply I could (or would want to!) live on an extended (never ending?) voyage (and also to give me stuff to talk about on the Internet  ::))........but the main reason is to give me something to work towards now.....and motivate me to give "Wayluya" Seadog the TLC I have promised........

Always easy (and a good idea) to take advice, but no substitute for doing something yerself.......and for something like this does not have to be tested for the first time on the RTW voyage.........

[Captain Smollett]

I am not sure how much money you spend is the important thing, but what you spend it on.

Restaurants, marinas, a car rental at EVERY stop, every wizgadget West Marine has in the catalogue, etc. probably don't enhance the "experience" of the cruise all that much, if at all.

Buying local crafts to give as gifts to people you meet along the way would, I think.  So would spending whatever it takes to keep the boat in good shape (unexpected repairs do crop up) to get you where you want to go with confidence.  Small boats with less 'stuff' to spend money on frees up money to go to outside-the-boat experiences.

For each $ one spends, one has to earn it.  While work here in the rat-race might suck, working along the way (deliveries, boat repairs, or whatever one might do) allows one more opportunity to meet, interact and become immersed in where one is.  For me, some places will open teaching opportunities.  As I sit here, I can think of little else that would allow me a fuller, richer experience of the local culture than teaching high schoolers for a year (something I would be loathe to do here, btw).  So...by pinching pennies TOO much, I might deny myself some of these "earning" experiences as well.  (Hey, it's just a thought!)

My point is that, for me at least, focusing on the NUMBER of $$ per month is less satisfying than knowing that I could be self sufficient and that the money that IS spent is, within my own goals and values, money WELL spent.

That said, I think we are realistically looking at $1200-1500 per month as a minimum.  That's for four of us.  That, of course, supposes that I spend a bucket of $$ on the boat before we head off anywhere.

[maxiSwede]

Good Post CapnSmollett!  grog on you!

For what it's worth, during my four-month cruise in the Baltic Sea last year I spent around 2300 USD (but in SEK=swedish kronor obviously ;))

On the other hand I spent 6000 USD on the boat before departure. a new set of sails and a second-hand radar. Spread that cost over 10 years and that gives you another 600 added to the 2300 divided with four months etc..... you could bend those figures back and forth to eternity but everyone of us has different approaches to this, and different 'needs' and 'desires'...

As added info I spent about 1 night/week in a marina/guest harbour as an average. 25 bucks per night on an average. My cruising grounds are loaded with sheltered anchorages so no need to use marinas other than for shore service as laundry, provisioning etc.

Perhaps this is helpful for someone...

[Manannan]

All depends on the sailing ground. Europe and some places in the States are a lot more expensive than less developed countries of course. After the usual expenses on the boat, food, fuel and some extras to make life more exciting (like some travel inland, some drinks at a local bar etc.. ) should be the only expenses. For 2, last year in Mexico the average was no more than $500 a month including some days at a marina (they are quite expensive in Mexico), but the rest is cheap. Food, local transportation etc... as long as you stay off the tourist traps.  Long gone the days when $50 a month was enough to live in Brazil for 2 including some good times and some extras in the local restaurant... But I know there is still some places where $ 100 a month is plenty.

[oded kishony]

Capt Smollett wrote:

>allows one more opportunity to meet, interact and become immersed in where one is.<

One of the best times I ever had was working as an illegal migrant farm worker in Italy harvesting the wine grape crop, hiding from the local police when they came around checking for illegals.

Hope the statue of limitation is past  ;D

Didn't the Pardeys write a book about the 'Cost Concious Cruiser'?

Oded

[newt]

Wow David old Jersey...
I wonder if a dollar a day is really possible. Probably not but a nice exercise anyway. Make sure and post how your 'experiment" goes. Manannan- if you can really live off of 100 per person per month, I think that would be quite an accomplishment. Where would that be?
The other side of this equation- working as a illegal-quasi legal worker in a foreign country is intriguing.  It sounds like those experiences are rewarding in different ways. As a physician, I dream of going around and giving a free clinic in the poorer islands, then setting sail and doing it again, but the logistics would probably be too great, not to mention the red tape.
For the time being, I guess I will keep my day job. ;D

[Captain Smollett]

As a physician, I dream of going around and giving a free clinic in the poorer islands, then setting sail and doing it again, but the logistics would probably be too great, not to mention the red tape.
For the time being, I guess I will keep my day job. ;D

For physicians, I don't think is it all that difficult.  The issue is supply and demand.  Throw away, unskilled jobs are heavily regulated in terms of getting 'permission' to work.  On the other side of the coin, highly skilled jobs, like anything in medicine, are always in demand.  You won't make what you are used to here, but then again, not everything of value has a $ in front of it.

I've researched this a fair bit.  I've found that in Australia, for example, they are VERY strict about letting guests work - EXCEPT in medicine and teaching.  :)  These happen to be the fields we can work!

Honduras is another place I've been looking into.  I've been in contact with a school on the coast that would hire both my wife and I right now, if we could go.  They wanted us down there Fall 2007, and because they are used to dealing with Stateside and other foreign teachers, they are set up to help with the immigration issues.

Also, there's a clinic in Honduras that would take us both (her as a Physician, me doing tech support stuff for the lab gear and computers) this minute.  It's a volunteer shop, though, and we have not figured out the financials on that one yet.  I've toyed around with getting some kind of Stateside sponsorship to go down there for a year or so.

In other words, governments make it hard for jobs they don't really need, but easy other wise.

[newt]

Someone who's really doing it-Grog to ya! Now I just have to talk my wife into living our home. Hmmm- any ideas on that? :o

[Captain Smollett]

Someone who's really doing it-Grog to ya! Now I just have to talk my wife into living our home. Hmmm- any ideas on that? :o

Have both you and she read Changine Course by Debra Cantrell?  Excellent read for both sexes.

We've read the book, but when I know the answer to the question you asked, I'll share it with ya!  Right now, we are planning/researching/lining up ducks.

Our single biggest hurdle is making payments on her med school loans.  If it were not for that, we could "cash out" today (not that she WOULD...but we COULD).

The 3rd world opportunities, like the teaching job I mentioned, would not cover those payments, much less leave anything left to live on.  That teaching job does, however, include room and board and tuition for our children to attend school while we are there.

So, basically we have to save enough to make 1 year's worth of payments on that %^&**& loan (yes, I know, I know) to head out for a year or so.  Cash from selling the house and the cars would have to be put into safekeeping to allow re-landing after said year, because right now, full-time no-end-in-sight cruising is just not in the cards for my wife.

[oded kishony]

When my wife and I lived in Italy for a year so I could study violin making there, we rented our house. Which only worked out so so. However, when my wife's boss found out we were planning to do this he voluntarily continued paying her for the  year we were away. Plus he bought a cello I made.

"Do good things and good things happen"
from 'my name is Earl TV show)  ;D

Oded

[sharkbait]

 First I must qualify this post by saying that I'm single and I've got a small boat.

I've done three extended trips to Mexico and Central America,none less than three months.I've found that if I stay away from the tourist traps like Cabo,P.V.,and Z-town and anchor out of the smaller towns,the fishing is better and it's actually difficult to blow more than $150 a week.That includes getting a motel roomwith a real shower and a bed on Saturday night.
Speaking the language really helps with making friends.Once you've got local friends your on your way to paying local prices,which are quite different from tourist prices.

I  mainly head to the Sea of Cortez anymore on my layoffs.

[skylark]

If your only cost is food for one person, and you are willing to live on simple foods, $1 to $2 a day in the US is possible for food. This would be for a diet made up of whole wheat bread, soups and vegetarian meals with few extra treats.  The foods must be bought in bulk at food coops or other bulk supply places for the best prices.  It would be best if you were smart about it and learned to fish, hunt, garden and gather wild foods to add to a diet of staples.  I probably could not live on this diet for more than a few weeks but it would be healthy and I might lose some weight. 

Food prices are going up so this will put a squeeze on things.  The US is quite cheap compared to most places.  If you want to do this as an experiment, the US may actually be the cheapest place in the world right now due to the falling value of the dollar and the highly efficient retail distribution system in the US.

If you want to keep moving, you need to be in an area where you can sail most of the time, only using the motor to get out into the open.  This means big water rather than canals and rivers.  There have to be plenty of anchorages within reasonable distances.  Places that I know of are the Great Lakes, Chesapeake Bay, and the Southeastern coastal states, especially NC and SC.  Florida might have been a boaters paradise at one time but now the stories make it out to be paradise lost.  You might be able to do Western Rivers if you start up north and motor only as needed (Mississippi to the Tenn-Tom for example).  Accept that moving slowly and waiting for favorable winds is the best way to travel.

You have to avoid having anything on the boat that you cannot repair yourself, or that you cannot do without if it stops working.  The boat needs to be small, simple and sturdy. 

[newt]

I think that Paul's approach is practical. Let's say that you wanted to repeat Thoreau's experiment on Walden Pond- two years of isolation and self examination with very limited outside contact.
1. You live in isolated bays and estuaries along Maine during the summer and the everglades in the winter...venturing beyond the 3 or 10 mile state boundary for fresh fish if wanted. (so you don't have to go to town for fishing licenses) Or become a Florida resident and get your own crab pots.
2, Grow bean sprouts and simple vegetable trays at extended anchorages. Use vitamins to supplement your vegetarian or fish and grain diet.
3. A solar cell system for radio (emergency) weather fax and water maker. You may be able to live without a water maker if you anchor in freshwater and do the manual purifier thing, but I think a electric water maker would be a luxury I would pay for. After all even Thoreau had pure water. I don't know if there are yet pure freshwater springs that can be used by cruisers along the Atlantic/Gulf of Mexico seaboard.
4. A manual sewing machine and all the tools needed to fix everything on board (except perhaps a engine overhaul). Epoxy and patches, welding gear?
5. a bulletproof dingy, preferably made by you.
6. Finally, a good supply of your favorite classic books. And lots of journal material.
Could you provision for two years this way? Perhaps in a slightly bigger boat...but just think what you would learn along the way! ;D
When I was younger I use to spend a lot of time in the desert- getting my head straight and enjoying the life that was there.  I think a journey like this has a lot more potential - as long as you take it slow and don't sail into any hurricanes. There has to be someone in the group who has done something like this- what do you say out there?

[Captain Smollett]

but I think a electric water maker would be a luxury I would pay for. After all even Thoreau had pure water. I don't know if there are yet pure freshwater springs that can be used by cruisers along the Atlantic/Gulf of Mexico seaboard.

There's always rainfall, too.

When Yves Gellinas started on his circumnavigation, he was counting on refilling his tanks with rain.  The first 70 days or so, from the English Channel to Cape of Good Hope, he had surprisingly little rain (far less than he had planned to get).  He was down to a few liters when he resupplied at the Cape.

[Manannan]

.
Speaking the language really helps with making friends.Once you've got local friends your on your way to paying local prices,which are quite different from tourist prices.

do not forget some item to trade for fish or lobsters.. or fruit and veggie, and think about some occasional and... innocent   8) smuggling items to sell or trade, that can extend your cruising for quite a bit. I had some experience on living and travelling with less than a dollar a day, but that was riding a horse in the heart of Brazil for 3 months. Also, because of some downluck,  had to live on rice and beans for sometimes while cruising until we reached a place we could find work (always illegally, but without any problems..).

[David_Old_Jersey]

Wow David old Jersey...
I wonder if a dollar a day is really possible. Probably not but a nice exercise anyway.

My thinking is also not, but apart from the catchy title "sailing away for a dollar a day"  8) I figure be of interest to me (and maybe others? - depending how I get on) for my later use.......however I should mention that I will be "cheating" to some degree, mainly that between now and then the boat will have $$$$ spent on her to make my life easier / cheaper later on......and I can afford more than $1 a day (which is both a plus and a minus for this project - as IME neccesity is the mother of invention or at least motivation!).

Below is part of a post I did elsewhere, with a few more details of my thinking (hopes? / delusions?!):-



OK, their are a couple of compromises (cheats?!) involved....

1) Only going for 3 months - I am not completely mad! I reckon long enuf to learn what is working and what is not. (boat and budget wise). Plus it is a weather thing.

2) D-Day (Dollar Day?) is 17 May 2009 (see comments about boat needing some TLC )

3) My Kitty will more than allow for emergencies (or cheating!) or changing the trip into a more normal one if things get too much on a dollar a day.

4) A fair wad of cash will be spent on the boat beforehand that could otherwise be spent during the 3 months to up the budget comfortably above a Dollar a Day, including to make my life easier during this (and future?) trips.

5) I will not be voyaging far (relatively) - Throughout the Channel Islands and to the adjacent coast of France (I know the areas - and most importantly know free berthing / places to Anchor - plus easy to abort the trip from).



6) I have a good idea that I will be able to get free WIFI access at least now and again - but I may well include access to the Internet outside the dollar a day expenses in order that I can update a Blog.

7) I am thinking that I will spend a lot of time fishing - and I hope this is my main source of Bartering (and Protein?!) - Before I depart will line up some Barter freindly folk. who like fish .

8') I do have certain shoreside expenses / commitments (not a great deal - but some) that I will still need to meet during the 3 month trip which will be outside my Dollar a day budget - but I will not be allowed to use my shoreside facilities (Home / Cars / Motorbikes / Workshop / Washing Machine) etc etc.

9) The Boat will (hopefully) be well sorted at the outset - so likely that no major boat expenses will be incurred. Famous last words!

10) I will start off with a full tank of diesel (not in the Budget) but I will add the top up on my return to the budget.


A few "rules" (which I may or may not break).....

1) No "begging" or depending on the kindness of others (aka scrounging) - and no working - however, bartering will be allowed. If someone is willing to swap a couple of cans of baked beans for some fresh fish or for a meal cooked onboard then all well and good. Not too sure about bartering my manual labour for food......sounds too much like work .

2) Not sure about guests aboard who exchange food for free accomadation - or getting invited ashore for nosh - sounds a bit too cheating, but I will think about this a bit more.

3) Not allowed to return home to do my laundery / watch TV etc

4) No criminal activity  But morally dubious is OK

5) Not sure about adding a "Begging Button" to my Website.......I was thinking about giving folk the option to contribute a dollar towards the following expenses of their choice:-

a) Cold Beer
b) Hot Women
c) Boring Boat Bits


So the big question is........what do I spend USD92 on???  I am thinking bags of Rice.......and maybe Multivitamins

BTW I am quite happy to fail to meet the USD1 target, (and expect to) but am interested in how close I can get / what the expenses and difficulties prove to be.


I reserve the right to instead go to Vegas  ;D

[skylark]

Your Dollar a Day challenge is interesting not only from a perspective of "how do I budget" but also how does not having money affect your way of thinking.  Is it a purifying process? a struggle? do you walk away from the experiment with a feeling of freedom and independence? do you come back to civilization seeing things that you once thought were necessary as luxuries and conveniences that only lead to wage slavery, or does the constant gnawing hunger turn you into a stark raving madman? :)  oh the drama!

From another perspective, I like to spend time in the wilderness, and would like to spend a summer exploring places like

http://tinyurl.com/6s2wcx

http://tinyurl.com/6re36o

Its not really so much to escape from people as much as getting away from the hustle and bustle and to enjoy natural beauty, being surrounded by nature rather than driving in and standing at the brink of wilderness in a park.  Thats what you can get with a boat, being part of natural environment rather than an alien transported in from the human sector of the planet.  Or you could think of the boat as your own personal space ship and pretend you are exploring other planets, your choice of fantasies.

A side effect of wilderness anchoring is that when provisioning for long periods of time without a refrigerator, you tend to eat less expensive foods.  While there are towns that you could visit to buy things and services, for the most part there is no one to take your money in the wilderness.  So it is possible to follow a different quest and still end up at the dollar a day experiment.  I think it would be more difficult anchored near towns, the temptation would be much greater.  mmm pizza! irresistable!

As a minimum, to survive comfortably, each day I would need:
a handfull of legumes (beans, peas, lentils)
a couple of teaspoons of dried vegetables
a handfull of rice
a few pinches of spices
an onion and a few potatoes
a dollop or two of oil
a cup or two of flour
a handfull or two of mixed nuts, seeds, grains and dried fruits
a pinch of yeast
a few quarts of water
fuel to prepare the food,
a pinch or two of baking soda to brush my teeth,
and a swipe of soap to wash and shave.

beyond that all is luxury.

However I do enjoy luxuries!